110/70x17 front tyre - which one?

[cbfb]

OK so to get my 250 Bandit through its next WOF I'm going to need a new front tyre. It has a wee bit of tread left but it has some nasty cracking in the sidewall which I'm not gonna ride on. I have absolutely no clue about what's on the market at the moment, so I rang around a few bike shops and this is what options I have locally:

- Pirelli Sport Demon (http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/motorcycle/sheet/sport_demon.html) $165
- Pirelli Diablo $225
- Pirelli Diablo Rosso (http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/motorcycle/sheet/diablo_rosso.html) $275
- Pirelli Super Corsa (http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/motorcycle/sheet/diablo_supercorsa_sp.html) $314
- Dunlop GT401 $167

I'm a fairly slow rider, not at the getting-your-knee-down stage yet, although I would like to do some track days eventually. The roads around me are pretty much all twisty country lanes with a few hills. Road surfaces range from fairly OK (State Highways) to bloody awful (cowshit, gravel etc). I will be riding in all weathers. Journey time usually 30mins to an hour. What I won't be doing much of at the moment is long, straight highways for hours.

My thoughts are to go with the Sport Demon, what do you reckon?

[Drew]

Here's what I did when fixing a mates 250 Bandit for him. Throw the 110/70 away and get a 120/70 instead. There is fuck all difference in size so the speedo will probably read sod all differently, (no more than the difference between a tyre with all its tread or minimum).

Your range of available tyres is increased, and the cost comes down.

I do push quite hard sometimes, and the Shinko I've got on the front is perfectly adequate for the road, wet or dry.

[Owl]

My thoughts are to go with the Sport Demon, what do you reckon?

I reckon you're right!

$146 at Cycletreads and about $7-$8 freight.

[cbfb]

Here's what I did when fixing a mates 250 Bandit for him. Throw the 110/70 away and get a 120/70 instead. There is fuck all difference in size so the speedo will probably read sod all differently, (no more than the difference between a tyre with all its tread or minimum).

Your range of available tyres is increased, and the cost comes down.

I do push quite hard sometimes, and the Shinko I've got on the front is perfectly adequate for the road, wet or dry.

That could be an option, but I have read it's not a good idea to increase the tyre width from the manufacturer's specs? Something to do with squeezing the tyre so the flat surface making contact with the road is less?

So you're pretty happy with the Shinko then eh. I've got one on the back but haven't ridden the bike much yet (been doing a rebuild), it's new so it will be staying on.


I reckon you're right!

Sweet. Just thought I'd check!

[Drew]

That could be an option, but I have read it's not a good idea to increase the tyre width from the manufacturer's specs? Something to do with squeezing the tyre so the flat surface making contact with the road is less?

So you're pretty happy with the Shinko then eh. I've got one on the back but haven't ridden the bike much yet (been doing a rebuild), it's new so it will be staying on.

The contact patch in a straight line might be 5% smaller I guess, but it is larger when cornering. When are you most likely to want the extra grip?

The shinko I've got is the one of the newest ones they've released for sports bikes. I dare say the one on the back of your bike is much older and a long way off the technologies they are working with now.

[cbfb]

The contact patch in a straight line might be 5% smaller I guess, but it is larger when cornering. When are you most likely to want the extra grip?

True, will ask what the difference in price is gonna be if I go to a 120 then.


The shinko I've got is the one of the newest ones they've released for sports bikes. I dare say the one on the back of your bike is much older and a long way off the technologies they are working with now.

Good point. It's about 2 years old from memory (according to the sidewall stamp). I wouldn't ride on it by choice but I can't afford to burn money like that by changing a perfectly good tyre. And it's not like I'm going to be going too hard on it, if/when I get to doing a lot of track days I will have worn it out by then anyway and will get something nicer. But I have heard some good things about Shinkos in the bike press, seem to remember one of the mags using them on their long-term test bike.

[cbfb]

$146 at Cycletreads and about $7-$8 freight.

AFC on Main Street will do them at $146.

Then you've got fitting on top of that - I've no idea how to change a tyre will leave it to the pros for $15 :)

[Owl]

AFC on Main Street will do them at $146.

Then you've got fitting on top of that - I've no idea how to change a tyre will leave it to the pros for $15 :)

That's good...........Last tyre fitting they quoted me was $35 if I took the wheel in. Hence why I do them myself now.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend putting a 120 on a 3.00" rim and would stick to the 110.

[cbfb]

That's good...........Last tyre fitting they quoted me was $35 if I took the wheel in. Hence why I do them myself now.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend putting a 120 on a 3.00" rim and would stick to the 110.

They said fitting would be $15-35 depending on how long it took, and that if I bring the wheel in it will be cheaper. Sounds like they're just charging $35 regardless though :(

In that case Anza is definitely $20 and the tyre is the same price so prob go there.

Would like to go to Freedom but slightly more expensive.

Is it hard to change the tyre yourself?

[cbfb]

p.s. On the back is a Shinko Sport Master 140/70-17 66V.

I've heard that you shouldn't mix certain types of tyre front & back. Now I don't understand much about the different types of tyres, bit ignorant in that department, they're all black rubbery things to me.

Does anyone know what type of tyre the Shinko one is and if it's OK to use with the Pirelli? Shinko website is bloody useless.

[Drew]

p.s. On the back is a Shinko Sport Master 140/70-17 66V.

I've heard that you shouldn't mix certain types of tyre front & back. Now I don't understand much about the different types of tyres, bit ignorant in that department, they're all black rubbery things to me.

Does anyone know what type of tyre the Shinko one is and if it's OK to use with the Pirelli? Shinko website is bloody useless.

Lots of people say not to mix tyre brands, but I've always said it fine. Mixing and matching can give you the best performance.

The tyres cannot effect each others grip level, but outrageous difference in profile can make the bike feel quite odd to ride. The tyres you're talking about are not going to be very different as they are for similar purpose though so don't worry about it.

[cbfb]

Lots of people say not to mix tyre brands, but I've always said it fine. Mixing and matching can give you the best performance.

The tyres cannot effect each others grip level, but outrageous difference in profile can make the bike feel quite odd to ride. The tyres you're talking about are not going to be very different as they are for similar purpose though so don't worry about it.

Thanks again Drew. I did wonder about that, I can understand on a car that you might not want different tread on the same axle, but couldn't figure what difference it would make on a bike from front to rear.

Good news is I got the bike finished finally, only to find out the battery has died over the 3+ months I've been rebuilding it :doh: Never mind will pick up a new one tomorrow and do some riding before the summer's out :scooter:

[awa355]

I had a Shinko on my 250 and it stuck like shit to a blanket. I was a bit disappointed in the life of it tho' Can remember thinking at the time the Shinko didn't have a very deep tread and seemed a bit shop soiled, and the more I think about it, the more I reckon I was flogged off a tyre that had already done a few K's. The shop folded a few months later.

Replace them with Sports Demons and they were brilliant.

[cbfb]

I had a Shinko on my 250 and it stuck like shit to a blanket. I was a bit disappointed in the life of it tho' Can remember thinking at the time the Shinko didn't have a very deep tread and seemed a bit shop soiled, and the more I think about it, the more I reckon I was flogged off a tyre that had already done a few K's. The shop folded a few months later.

Replace them with Sports Demons and they were brilliant.

Cheers, gonna go get some 110 Sport Demons I decided :)

[Gibbo89]

Cheers, gonna go get some 110 Sport Demons I decided :)

I have sports demons on my bike, they will be the same as yours, size-wise. They are pretty highly rated tyres eh. They won't last as long as say the gt501 because they aren't dual compound and the center strip of the tyre isn't hard like some, but as you don't do huge straight line k's then it won't matter too much. You should get at least 10,000ks out of them, I think I was told about 12,000k's but of course that varies on how you ride etc.

[cbfb]

I have sports demons on my bike, they will be the same as yours, size-wise. They are pretty highly rated tyres eh. They won't last as long as say the gt501 because they aren't dual compound and the center strip of the tyre isn't hard like some, but as you don't do huge straight line k's then it won't matter too much. You should get at least 10,000ks out of them, I think I was told about 12,000k's but of course that varies on how you ride etc.

10,000km, that's pretty impressive. With regular commuting that should last 18 months.

Not going anywhere today tho bloody flat battery!

[awa355]

[QUOTE=cbfb;1129955381]10,000km, that's pretty impressive. With regular commuting that should last 18 months.

Twenty years ago, I put a dual compound Continental Tourer on the rear of my XZ400. It did 22,000k's. I had hoped it might run to 25k but found the tread lifting away from the casing, so changed it quick. Was the only time I've had to replace the front tyre before the rear. You could tell when it moved off the hard centre to the sidewalls. Particually in the wet.

[ducatilover]

I run sport demons on all the bikes I have had, they are very nice all round tires. Cheap as chips too. I'm about to get a new one on the front of mine tomorrow! :niceone:

[cbfb]

[QUOTE=cbfb;1129955381]Twenty years ago, I put a dual compound Continental Tourer on the rear of my XZ400. It did 22,000k's. I had hoped it might run to 25k but found the tread lifting away from the casing, so changed it quick. Was the only time I've had to replace the front tyre before the rear. You could tell when it moved off the hard centre to the sidewalls. Particually in the wet.

Well the one that's on there now has a wee bit of wear left in it but there is quite bad 'dryrot'. Plus it's some brand I've never even heard of and is 5 years old so I thought bugger it for under 200 it's not worth risking. Dodgy for a WOF too, which I need to get.


I run sport demons on all the bikes I have had, they are very nice all round tires. Cheap as chips too. I'm about to get a new one on the front of mine tomorrow! :niceone:

Good stuff!

Just need to get the bloody thing started now, turns over but won't fire up. Will have another crack tonight.

[ducatilover]

Just need to get the bloody thing started now, turns over but won't fire up. Will have another crack tonight.

I'll bring my mallet around to persuade the fucker if you want :msn-wink:

[cbfb]

I'll bring my mallet around to persuade the fucker if you want :msn-wink:

:eek: ah the subtle approach!

[ducatilover]

:eek: ah the subtle approach!

Works well I have found! Just ask the wife....

[cbfb]

Works well I have found! Just ask the wife....

Tell you what I'm about ready to get the mallet out, after 3 months of rebuilding it's a bit of a bugger when it won't go :(

[ducatilover]

Tell you what I'm about ready to get the mallet out, after 3 months of rebuilding it's a bit of a bugger when it won't go :(

Got fuel in the carbs? Got spark/timing right?

[cbfb]

Got fuel in the carbs? Got spark/timing right?

Aye I had been blinkered into thinking 'dead battery' coz well, the battery was dead, but even with a new one it doesn't go.

Yep will check the fuel flow and spark tonight. Now timing is a funny one, I set the timing according to the timing mark on the end of the crank for TDC, but there's a 'T' and just next to it is a line. The manual refers to the timing mark, which I took to mean the line. Maybe I was wrong? Not sure if that 5 degrees or so of difference would make or break it?

Will report back if it still won't go (maybe you can bring that magic mallet round after all).

[ducatilover]

Aye I had been blinkered into thinking 'dead battery' coz well, the battery was dead, but even with a new one it doesn't go.

Yep will check the fuel flow and spark tonight. Now timing is a funny one, I set the timing according to the timing mark on the end of the crank for TDC, but there's a 'T' and just next to it is a line. The manual refers to the timing mark, which I took to mean the line. Maybe I was wrong? Not sure if that 5 degrees or so of difference would make or break it?

Will report back if it still won't go (maybe you can bring that magic mallet round after all).
I would use the "T" mark as trying to start a small engine like that on TDC will probably not work too well, if at all.

[Drew]

You've had the cams out of it aye? It is well easy to time those things 180° wrong. Swap the feed wires (the little wires into it) on the coils and problem might well resolve itself.

[cbfb]

I would use the "T" mark as trying to start a small engine like that on TDC will probably not work too well, if at all.

:facepalm: I would really be fucked off if that's the case, would mean quite a bit of rework. Will exhaust all other possibilities first before going down that route.


You've had the cams out of it aye? It is well easy to time those things 180° wrong. Swap the feed wires (the little wires into it) on the coils and problem might well resolve itself.

Yup had the cams out of it. And I see what you're saying, I did wonder about that at time but no mention of it in the manual so I thought I was over-thinking. By feed wires do you mean swap over the HT leads that go to the spark plugs or do you mean reverse the polarity of the leads going into the coils from the battery? I assume it's the HT leads because I didn't think the polarity mattered but just want to check.

[ducatilover]

Ah yeah the cam timing is a possibility. Are the (Cyl 1) valves open when it's on TDC?

[cbfb]

Ah yeah the cam timing is a possibility. Are the (Cyl 1) valves open when it's on TDC?

I have checked the clearances as described here and from the manual, it would seem that No 1 Cyl's valves are open at TDC as expected (all looking good so far):

228776

Not sure if you've seen the inside of the wee bandit before so here's the end of the crank, you can just make out the 'T' mark and the '|' mark which I was on about earlier:

228777

The reason I used the '|' mark was because this diagram seems to be indicating that:

228775

Do you think I've done it correctly so far?

[ducatilover]

It's a bit hard for my eyes to make out the details on the crank shot, but, by the looks of things it's all happy

[Drew]

The cams get timed to TDC, the ignition gets timed to the "T".

By swapping the wires I mean as follows...

You have two coils with four leads coming out to the plugs, leave those as they are.

The small wires on the coils are what make the coils discharge, on a Suzuki they are probably one black, and one orange with a different coloured stripe for each coil. Swap those.

[cbfb]

Well for some reason it was playing silly buggers with me. Tried it again tonight, thought I would just charge the battery fully and crank it first, so I did that for about 5 mins. Anyway was about to give up when I heard a bit of popping so I carried on then put put put vrooooooooooooooooooooom she bursts into life at 8000 revs :woohoo: Am guessing it just took ages to suck gas through the engine (yep i did have it on prime).

That's a wee bit quick mind you to idle at! Somehow I've fucked up the idle speed/throttle adjustment when I put the carbs back together. Adjusted the throttle as low as it will go, got it down to 7500 revs, no idea what to do now but will go away and investigate.

Anyway much happier now I've heard it tick over and I know the last 3 months of tinkering weren't wasted! Thanks again for your help.

[Drew]

Well for some reason it was playing silly buggers with me. Tried it again tonight, thought I would just charge the battery fully and crank it first, so I did that for about 5 mins. Anyway was about to give up when I heard a bit of popping so I carried on then put put put vrooooooooooooooooooooom she bursts into life at 8000 revs :woohoo: Am guessing it just took ages to suck gas through the engine (yep i did have it on prime).

That's a wee bit quick mind you to idle at! Somehow I've fucked up the idle speed/throttle adjustment when I put the carbs back together. Adjusted the throttle as low as it will go, got it down to 7500 revs, no idea what to do now but will go away and investigate.

Anyway much happier now I've heard it tick over and I know the last 3 months of tinkering weren't wasted! Thanks again for your help.

Great news man!

The huge idle explains why it wouldn't start.

As for the idle, is the throttle wheel that the cable goes on returning back to the adjuster screw? I'd look at the cables before pulling the carbs out.

Failing that ensure the slide are returning all the way to the bottom.

If that don't work, fire it up and give it a DAMN GOOD THRASHING! Usually sorts out the bugs for me.

[cbfb]

Great news man!

The huge idle explains why it wouldn't start.

As for the idle, is the throttle wheel that the cable goes on returning back to the adjuster screw? I'd look at the cables before pulling the carbs out.

Failing that ensure the slide are returning all the way to the bottom.

If that don't work, fire it up and give it a DAMN GOOD THRASHING! Usually sorts out the bugs for me.

Well I took the throttle adjuster screw off when I was rebuilding the carbs. So now I've loosened the throttle off completely (taken the adjuster screw out of the equation completely) and it's still doing 7500rpm. Although there is a good 5mm gap between the throttle wheel end and the carb body, looks like it should be able to return further but doesn't. At the opposite end of the throttle body is another screw, I don't know what this does but maybe I need to adjust that?

Sorry this is all very vague, naively I thought I could bugger about with the throttle adjustments while I was rebuilding and it would magically work again!

Is there any way of checking that the slides are dropping down without stripping the carbs again?

I was a bit worried about it running @ 8000rpm cold while it's settling in incase it blows up so I've been hitting the kill switch straight after it fires up - do you reckon I should grab some ear plugs and let it rev its nuts off for a few mins and see if it settles down? Like you say could just need a bit of a thrashing.

[Drew]

Well I took the throttle adjuster screw off when I was rebuilding the carbs. So now I've loosened the throttle off completely (taken the adjuster screw out of the equation completely) and it's still doing 7500rpm. Although there is a good 5mm gap between the throttle wheel end and the carb body, looks like it should be able to return further but doesn't. At the opposite end of the throttle body is another screw, I don't know what this does but maybe I need to adjust that?

Sorry this is all very vague, naively I thought I could bugger about with the throttle adjustments while I was rebuilding and it would magically work again!

Is there any way of checking that the slides are dropping down without stripping the carbs again?

I was a bit worried about it running @ 8000rpm cold while it's settling in incase it blows up so I've been hitting the kill switch straight after it fires up - do you reckon I should grab some ear plugs and let it rev its nuts off for a few mins and see if it settles down? Like you say could just need a bit of a thrashing.

Was joking about the thrashing mate.

Sounds to me like the cable is too tight. There is an adjustment you can make just off the throttle to take tension out of the cable. (Just trying to decide how to describe it). Will send you a PM and get your phone number, talking is easier than writing.

[cbfb]

Was joking about the thrashing mate.

Sounds to me like the cable is too tight. There is an adjustment you can make just off the throttle to take tension out of the cable. (Just trying to decide how to describe it). Will send you a PM and get your phone number, talking is easier than writing.

:doh: Sorry didn't get that one! Will PM you now.

[ducatilover]

Any luck yet dude? Tried running with the throttle cable disconnected? Where are the throttle butterflies set to on "closed" throttle and what about the needle heights etc etc



Must sound cool at 8000rpm though :msn-wink:

[cbfb]

Any luck yet dude? Tried running with the throttle cable disconnected? Where are the throttle butterflies set to on "closed" throttle and what about the needle heights etc etc



Must sound cool at 8000rpm though :msn-wink:

Hi sorry had moved the conversation to here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/133373-Idling-8000-rpm) because this thread had gone way off topic!

So far we've established that the throttle cable is as slack as it can be, and the throttles are fully closed. At the moment I suspect that a dodgy hose clip on the inlet manifold is the issue, although I'm having a nightmare of a time finding a replacement (most shops sell approx 12mm hose clips whereas this one is 8.6mm). Going to a breakers tonight though who say they might have something.