Keep Wellington's motorcycle parking free - sign the petition!

[davebullet]

WCC are reviewing the use of on-road motorcycle parking, which may include the introduction of fees / charges.

Do your bit by signing the "keep it free" petition:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/haveyoursay/e-petitions/ep/details/147

Here is a link to the policy:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/plans/policies/parking/pdfs/parking2007-09.pdf

The Policy was drafted September 2007 with an implementation timeframe of 3 - 5 years. The motorcycle section in question is on pg 28 which states:
"f. Review the provision for motorcycle parking,
including investigating issues such as quantity of
spaces, location, parking price and motorcycle
parking provision in town and suburban centres"

PS: Kudos and credit to BRONZ for organising this.

EDIT: Even if you aren't a Wellingtonian (I don't blame you, honest) - sign the petition. If parking fees for motorcycles goes ahead here, you can guarantee one council will set a precedent for other councils "justifying" fees to be a nationwide thing.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nice work! Sign up everyone!!!

[racefactory]

Looks like I'm the only Aucklander supporting you guys down there.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Petition signed - I must say that I am more than a bit fed up of WCC - firstly John whatshisname (member of kiwibiker) seemed really friendly and in touch with bikers parking needs at first but since then all I have seen is an anti-motorbiking stance from WCC.

YAAH BOO SUCKS to WCC!

Daftest thing I have heard since they made the motorbike parking spaces time restrictive - who the hell goes shopping in town on a bike?

[Milts]

Daftest thing I have heard since they made the motorbike parking spaces time restrictive - who the hell goes shopping in town on a bike?

Me.

Regularly.

Often during work hours.

(Petition signed).

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Me.

Regularly.

Often during work hours.

(Petition signed).

Get a car - and a job, if you are shopping during work hours.

[Gremlin]

Looks like I'm the only Aucklander supporting you guys down there.
Absolutely not... I'm occasionally down there (couple of times a year ish) and use the parking when I can find a space... (which isn't often)

[mrchips]

If charging for bike parking goes ahead in wgtn.... look out the rest of NZ !

Thanks 'Absolutely Profitably Wellington', name added.


I feel another bikoi coming on.

[Maha]

Oh the irony of it all.

[Paul in NZ]

Good onya for organising this guys. Got to stop the rot...

[Hailwood]

Signed the petition.

[bistard]

What a load of shit,we went through this a few years ago
One question I had was if they did charge,where would you put the parking label??

Good on you guys for organising the petition

Signed up & have passed on to others

[Fatt Max]

I'm in Auckland and signed this petition yesterday, good on you for organising it.

The words "Who's Next" springs to mind.

Dont matter where you are, get in behind bikers everywhere when authorities try this on, it will be some more expense coming to a parking space near you in the future, you can guarantee it

[willytheekid]

The profiteering BASTARDS!!! :mad:

mrchips is dead right! :niceone:
"If charging for bike parking goes ahead in wgtn.... look out the rest of NZ !"

Ive signed up (riding out of CHCH)...not enough bike parks in Welly as it is!, and now they want to charge!!....screw em!:bleh:
Now to spread the word, come on NZ riders...we ALL need to fight this one :2guns:

:msn-wink:

[bogan]

Just show em what happened with our friends over in the UK, massive bike demonstrations, it's still free, and councils lost face. Tell em they can save a lot of time and face by just throwing that shit in rubbish right now.

also, signed, palmy north represent!

[Gone Burger]

Signed! Ba-hum-bug - We won't let them win this one.

Well done BRONZ. Keep up the good work. All behind you 100%

[steelestring]

Done!! Plus I spread the word!!:niceone:

[GOONR]

I'm in Auckland and signed this petition yesterday, good on you for organising it.

The words "Who's Next" springs to mind.

Dont matter where you are, get in behind bikers everywhere when authorities try this on, it will be some more expense coming to a parking space near you in the future, you can guarantee it

Too true fella.

Signed.

[GOONR]

Just show em what happened with our friends over in the UK, massive bike demonstrations, it's still free, and councils lost face. Tell em they can save a lot of time and face by just throwing that shit in rubbish right now.

also, signed, palmy north represent!

Good site from the Uk here (http://notobikeparkingtax.com/)

[Str8 Jacket]

Get a car - and a job, if you are shopping during work hours.



firstly John whatshisname (member of kiwibiker) seemed really friendly and in touch with bikers parking needs at first but since then all I have seen is an anti-motorbiking stance from WCC.

Daftest thing I have heard since they made the motorbike parking spaces time restrictive - who the hell goes shopping in town on a bike?

Sorry not to fit in your lil dream world but I don't have a car licence so I have to go shopping on my bike. Also, I work 6-3.00pm 5 day's a week so often go shopping during 'work hours'.....

Some of us were very cynical when John Visser made his posts and upset a few people. Turns out we may have been right....

[nosebleed]

Funny, when researching parking options in Wellington for travel arrangements through the capital not that long ago I remember viewing a similar thread.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/106738-Wellington-Parking-They-are-about-to-clamp-down-on-bike-parking/page21

An Aucklander was trying to point out what the WCC was up to at the time and Instead of asking what Bodir was trying to say, and working out what was going on, he received this reaction...


Bodir, get the fuck out of this thread

New member, 1 post, from Jaffaland...this is Wellington you moron and Jon's shown some bloody good faith here so FUCK right off out of it

Maybe there are people who have "been around" and do know a thing or two ay, despite how recently they join a forum or their post count.

[spajohn]

Done, and forwarded to other bikers I know.

[sels1]

Petition signed

Perhaps those living residing in Wgtn can ring/email their elected representitive and let them know their feelings......:ar15:

[mashman]

petition signed... just waiting for confirmation email...

[davebullet]

I noticed the Mercer street park (perpendicular to the library) a month or so back (just before xmas?) which could hold at least 25 bikes - has been converted into approx 6 car parks. Yes - they've made another park up and across the street - but less than the size of the previous one.

I personally put this all down to the huge debt owed by leaky building syndrome. It will cost the WCC millions and without increasing rates - they are looking at every possible avenue to reduce costs or increase revenue.

[StoneY]

WCC has invited 'representatives' from the Motorcycle community to have a 'casual discussion' on Parking issue's in Wellington
Its been hinted that we may be facing either going to off street options or paying for our existing parks.

In Wellington there is a by-law stopping us from using pay n display parks, based on the fact we have dedicated free parking

There is an e-petition started on WCC website by none other than our own Riffer, to gain support for our free parking to remain as is.

http://www.wellington.govt.nz/haveyoursay/e-petitions/ep/details/147

Please sign this petition to keep Wellington biker freindly

[Luckylegs]

Whats wrong with offstreet options ? Wouldnt that be a good thing. I mean, theres a thread on here every other day about bikes being blown over

[PrincessBandit]

Signed. Even us southside jafas support the cause!

[StoneY]

Whats wrong with offstreet options ? Wouldnt that be a good thing. I mean, theres a thread on here every other day about bikes being blown over

Nothing at all if your happy to pay full contract parking rates for a park space in a car park building
Ask Eyegasm, he parks in the building my fiance's park is in. 50$ amonth, and he gets to use a dark corner they cant fit a mini in

This is not about getting out of the wind.

This is about bikers being treated as second class ratepayers, and having our existing privellege, long established to recognise the benefit the 1300+ motorcycles provide to Wellingtons daily congestion, remain as it is, and as it should be

We recently got herded off the sections of footpath that were for many years accepted as 'defacto' bike parks (read Buolcott/Grey St's) and top it off the Mercer st park (50+ bikes could fit on it) was removed for the new bus routes and we got 8 spots back in return!

Who's next all over again...make a stand now!
Sign the petition!

[Luckylegs]

Sorry, i read your "go offstreet or pay....." as the offstreet option being what you would have to do if you didnt want fo pay.

As you were!

[Number One]

DONE and DONE!

[Eyegasm]

Ask Eyegasm, he parks in the building my fiance's park is in. 50$ amonth, and he gets to use a dark corner they cant fit a mini in

Correct.

Although I prefer to know that my bike is not at the winds mercy, as well as having 24 hour access.

I do not believe that Motorcycles should have to pay, but I believe that portions of the parking should be time limited. Nothing worse than going to a part of town and finding all the bikes parks are occupied when you only want to pop into a place for a few minutes or so.

[StoneY]

I do not believe that Motorcycles should have to pay, but I believe that portions of the parking should be time limited. Nothing worse than going to a part of town and finding all the bikes parks are occupied when you only want to pop into a place for a few minutes or so.

Yes one of the subjects to be discussed with WCC at a 'casual discussion' I am privelledged enough to be attending for BRONZ is time limited zones in the central CBD, which alone is not too bad a prospect.
Been down that argument path with John Visser in the 2009 parking thread, and John actually got us more parks created in the end (good bloke, saw the light)

But they have also eluded to either paying for all day slots, or moving us into parking buildings.... they also tried telling me and Riffer Motorcycles are not reducing congestion because we crash too much, and we damage the environment because we dont have catalytic converters on enough bikes...OMG!

1300+ bikes a day, become cars if we have to pay.
(Ok slight exageration but you get the drift)
Bikes also can GARANTEE 50% occupancy, and the lane spliiting crowd DEFINITLEY assist traffic flow, legally or otherwise

Points we all know allready obviously

[cheshirecat]

Yes one of the subjects to be discussed with WCC at a 'casual discussion' I am privelledged enough to be attending for BRONZ is time limited zones in the central CBD, which alone is not too bad a prospect.
Been down that argument path with John Visser in the 2009 parking thread, and John actually got us more parks created in the end (good bloke, saw the light)

But they have also eluded to either paying for all day slots, or moving us into parking buildings.... they also tried telling me and Riffer Motorcycles are not reducing congestion because we crash too much, and we damage the environment because we dont have catalytic converters on enough bikes...OMG!



1300+ bikes a day, become cars if we have to pay.
(Ok slight exageration but you get the drift)
Bikes also can GARANTEE 50% occupancy, and the lane spliiting crowd DEFINITLEY assist traffic flow, legally or otherwise

Points we all know allready obviously
They need to verify statements like that with facts, otherwise is to be unprofessional and an abuse of their public service position. If they want us to act like cars then we can be like cars and take up space accordingly.

What do their buses pump out then. Trains are more inefficent than taking a car person in and that's according to the UK survey on their vastly more efficient train system.

- by the way my local beach is 9 times over the pollution limit, so they can't be that concerned about pollution.

I could go on - and on and on and on and on
Good work though Stoney.

[Gremlin]

Already a thread?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/133172-Keep-Wellington-motorcycling-free-sign-the-petition!?highlight=wellington+motorcycle+parking

[StoneY]

Already a thread?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/133172-Keep-Wellington-motorcycling-free-sign-the-petition!?highlight=wellington+motorcycle+parking

Seems so, my bad for not noting Daves fine thread
Can a clever MOD please merge these and place in appropriate location onthe front page?????

[bogan]

they also tried telling me and Riffer Motorcycles are not reducing congestion because we crash too much

Whoever said that needs a good smack upside the head with one of the slippery ass manhole covers they stick all over the place!

[StoneY]

I will admit to having overzealously having a go at poor old Bodir in the 2009 thread with mr Visser.
Was under massive pressure back then and organising BIKOI etc, and he deserves a public and personal appology

HOWEVER (caveat here) John Visser was true to his word
He organised more parking for us to compensate for the 'get off the footpaths' situation
At the time I so visciously replied to Bodir, John and I were coming to a very cooperative middle ground, and as I said he proactively compensated Wellington Motorcyclists for the loss of previously accepted footpath parking spaces

Again, I appologise for my angry reply to Bodir, but being asked to get off the footpaths was completely different to being forced to give up our free parking, given in exchange for not using Pay and Display slots which under WCC bylaws are not available for Motorcycles

Peace
:)

[Kendog]

What a load of shit,we went through this a few years ago
One question I had was if they did charge,where would you put the parking label?
You set up the bike parking with each bike space having a number painted on the road.
After you park you enter the number into a parking meter machine, then pay for how long you want to park. No ticket is printed. The parking meter machine can be checked to see which spaces have been paid for.

You can thank me later :msn-wink:

[StoneY]

Looks like I'm the only Aucklander supporting you guys down there.

Not quite I see about 9 Aucklanders on it at 140 siggies, far more now

Well done Kiwibikers
Add to this, the council invited 'appropriate representatives' for a 'casual discussion'

One private citizen who 'lobbied them about parking' (no idea if biker or not)
Director of SCooterazi
Ulysses (got that right at least)
And BRONZ

I have managed to convince them to invite MAG-NZ and WIMA as well
United we stand..... you know the rest ;)
:niceone:

[rustic101]

I have free secure parking but I would dislike others to be charged for this so done and email address authenticated :)

[Tink]

I might live near the Bombays, but I still live in NZ!!!!! Signed!:niceone:

[Maha]

Good onya Bronz Wellington, you guys are normally first out of the starting block on anything local or otherwise...:niceone:

[Howie]

signed.

As this is a plan at the moment is there anywhere we can make submissions to, or is it not at that stage yet?

[caseye]

Signed! Arseholes, John I hope you are monitoring this thread.If it's going to take some affirmative action to change councils mind then please remind them of the London Councils attempt at charging for parking and how the whole of London was brought to a standstill day in and day out for wekks on end by small groups of determined motorists.
This is gouging John, we've(read Stoney and co) have co operated and worked with you guys for ages, Now this???
Makes no sense to alienate us again.
Just to be absolutely clear, though I live in Dorkalnd, if action is called for and numbers are required.
I WILL RIDE.
I've had enough of authorities thinking they can simply bull doze shit through to suit themsleves.

[StoneY]

Signed! Arseholes, John I hope you are monitoring this thread.
.

Its not John this time old buddy
Another chap has the job of rorting us this round

I repeat, John was true to his word, despite what many think of the prior thread regarding footpaths and even increased the parking for bikes

18 months later, new challenge.
And yes casseye, I know you will ride if needed.

I secured an invite for MAG-NZ's rep to attend the discussion as well.
Council officer in charge will only allow one rep from each org
BRONZ
MAG
Ulysses
WIMA
and some public member who's been hassling them apparently (no idea who's side he is on)

Petition now past 200 sigs on day 2 and snowballing woot!!!!

Thanks Casseye, Maha, all of you great support
Its a wonderful thing to see us all unite for a good cause, and as stated in this thread, if Welly loses its parking what other councils will follow suit?

[rustic101]

Signed! Arseholes, John

Funny old thing... A guy at work was elected as a Councilor at elections. He and others are not impressed with the new 'Green' Mayor - Apparently she is extremely 'Blue-Green' with a strong focus on making money...

[Vinz0r]

Signed.

(10 char)

[bistard]

You set up the bike parking with each bike space having a number painted on the road.
After you park you enter the number into a parking meter machine, then pay for how long you want to park. No ticket is printed. The parking meter machine can be checked to see which spaces have been paid for.

You can thank me later :msn-wink:

Nigel, you can go away!!!!!,that is far to practical,it will never work,well I hope they dont read these forums
It would negate the damage factor though

[cheshirecat]

Who are these WCC people - do they have names?

[Arrowolf]

Signed, if i come up one day to welly,all the way from beautiful Arrowtown to the other side.
Fight for the right
Arrowolf

[riffer]

I'm the petition organiser guys. We at BRONZ Wellington reckon that this is a test case for National - If Welly can get away with charging motorcyclists to park - the rest of the country is next.

We may yet have to flex a little muscle before this one is over.

Thanks for all the support guys.

[shrub]

Signed. I don't want this kind of madness spreading

[BRONZ Spokesperson]

The Official BRONZ position on this matter is:


WCC have alluded to the fact that they may decide to charge for motorcycle parking in Wellington City.

BRONZ were notified of this by email with an invitation for BRONZ, as well as other motorcycling representatives nominated by Council, to participate in discussions with Senior WCC Parking Officers, as a first step in consultation on future changes to the parking systems in Wellington. It was alluded to that motorcycles may be charged for their parking on street or moved into parking buildings for nominally set fees as well as other changes including time-limited spaces in retail areas.

BRONZ believes this may be a test case for Nation-wide changes to motorcycle parking protocols and standards with Wellington as the first to fall.

While this is definitely a Wellington issue we believe all motorcycling groups throughout the nation need to put their collective weight behind BRONZ Wellington and their allies MAG NZ to ensure this is stopped DEAD.

The meeting will be held early February. Watch this thread for updates.

Confirmed attendees are:

BRONZ Wellington
MAG-NZ
Ulysses

Yet to be confirmed are:
WIMA

We thank you all for your support in this situation.

The BRONZ Federation on behalf of Wellington Branch.

[davebullet]

A good protest (not an original idea I know) would be to pay and take up car parks at popular areas at the same time of day. Yes - I said pay (to be almost legal) which would save money in the long run (a little spent in protest to save a lot later).

Although some may feel this might alienate car drivers, if the right banners were put together such as "council wants us to use paid parks!" "keep it free and out of your way" - we might be able to on-side cage drivers.

[riffer]

A good protest (not an original idea I know) would be to pay and take up car parks at popular areas at the same time of day. Yes - I said pay (to be legal) which would save money in the long run (a little spent in protest to save a lot later).

Although some may feel this might alienate car drivers, if the right banners were put together such as "council wants us to use paid parks!" "keep it free and out of your way" - we might be able to on-side cage drivers.


It would be a good idea but they introduced a by-law to make this illegal after we tried it last time. Motorcycles CANNOT park in Welly car parks.

[davebullet]

It would be a good idea but they introduced a by-law to make this illegal after we tried it last time. Motorcycles CANNOT park in Welly car parks.

Yeah- good point. realised that and edited to say almost legal.

[cheshirecat]

If WCC are really committed to green/sub as per their policy statements, to jump to public transport (which according to this research (http://www.energybulletin.net/node/733)) is inaccurate thinking. The research applies to the UK so how it works here with 60 year old (almost deserted outside rush hrs) trains makes their transport policy even less viable.

It therefore makes bikes That much more relevant and important to the green/sub message they wish to give to world.

[BRONZ Spokesperson]

The Official BRONZ position on this matter is:


WCC have alluded to the fact that they may decide to charge for motorcycle parking in Wellington City.

BRONZ were notified of this by email with an invitation for BRONZ, as well as other motorcycling representatives nominated by Council, to participate in discussions with Senior WCC Parking Officers, as a first step in consultation on future changes to the parking systems in Wellington. It was alluded to that motorcycles may be charged for their parking on street or moved into parking buildings for nominally set fees as well as other changes including time-limited spaces in retail areas.

BRONZ believes this may be a test case for Nation-wide changes to motorcycle parking protocols and standards with Wellington as the first to fall.

While this is definitely a Wellington issue we believe all motorcycling groups throughout the nation need to put their collective weight behind BRONZ Wellington and their allies MAG NZ to ensure this is stopped DEAD.

The meeting will be held early February. Watch this thread for updates.

Confirmed attendees are:

BRONZ Wellington
MAG-NZ
Ulysses

Yet to be confirmed are:
WIMA

We thank you all for your support in this situation.

The BRONZ Federation on behalf of Wellington Branch.

[StoneY]

Who are these WCC people - do they have names?

Yes there is a name behind this, but the way these things work we are far better off awaiting the initial discussions before we go headhunting

A lot of hot heads would start contacting the guy(s) directly and make the situation far worse, more hostile, and harder for BRONZ and MAG etc to make a real impact

Lets approach this one in a professional manner...at least until we call the troops in to make some noise if genuine consultation methods fail us

[cheshirecat]

Yes there is a name behind this, but the way these things work we are far better off awaiting the initial discussions before we go headhunting

A lot of hot heads would start contacting the guy(s) directly and make the situation far worse, more hostile, and harder for BRONZ and MAG etc to make a real impact

Lets approach this one in a professional manner...at least until we call the troops in to make some noise if genuine consultation methods fail us
HI,

Yes I agree with you though the above might not have seemed it!
I've also been following the London Westminster bike thing - I was there during one of their demos and bought a flouro vest. It's been interesting to see how they deal with the public are to draw out the offending council folk into the puiblic eye/media - they don't like that.

Any way you have my support - good luck, you're doing a great job.

[Dodgy1]

Good work guys...Petition signed.....:rockon:

[KZ440]

It seems that a valid address is mandatory and will be published. I don't see that this is necessary, and if it is, then it should not be published. I get enough spam now.
I support you guys but can't sign the petition. Sorry.

[scissorhands]

Email is not published but required for validity purpose's. Signed.

Bunch of c**ts

[BMWST?]

signed....

[FatHead]

I currently pay for a parking spot in a building in Wellington due to not being able to find a park most days when I commute in but still think that parking on the street for most of the parks should be free for all day parkers if they can get there early enough. I do agree it would be good to have some time restricted parks for those of us who wish to shoot across town to pick something up during the day(still don't know how this will be policed).

Agree that they will have a hard job policing all the parks and expect that policing would cost more than what is taken in fees.

Lets hope the petition works.

Oh and get off John's back he did do the right thing by us when they started cracking down on the sidewalk parking, he could have just said sod the lot of them and started ticketing but worked with the motorcyclists and parking buildings etc to get a a fair outcome for all :niceone: and then ticketed:Oi::Police: those who didnt take a blind bit of notice:stupid:. I for one applaude his pragmnatic approach on that occasion.

[StoneY]

It seems that a valid address is mandatory and will be published. I don't see that this is necessary, and if it is, then it should not be published. I get enough spam now.
I support you guys but can't sign the petition. Sorry.

Dude its a legal requirement for the petition and I guarantee there is no spam list your added to
Council only need to verify your real, and not a bot, or a double signatory
You recieve a single e-mail with a confirmation link

NO ONE gets access to the e-mail, not even the bloke who opened the petition

Hope that helps???

[LogFish]

Signed and forwarded, the email address is only published on the hardcopy.

Don't frequent this forum often, but am glad to read this thread lacks most of the militant mentality - keep it up, that kind of thing makes the collective 'us' look like a bunch of ignorant hoons, which probably does more harm than good.

Also, I presume someone's already thought on this, but if you can find a way to give scooter commuters a voice that'd help a lot too - they've got just as much in this and there's plenty of them.

Ty BRONZ for heading it up!

[BMWST?]

Yes one of the subjects to be discussed with WCC at a 'casual discussion' I am privelledged enough to be attending for BRONZ is time limited zones in the central CBD, which alone is not too bad a prospect.
Been down that argument path with John Visser in the 2009 parking thread, and John actually got us more parks created in the end (good bloke, saw the light)

But they have also eluded to either paying for all day slots, or moving us into parking buildings.... they also tried telling me and Riffer Motorcycles are not reducing congestion because we crash too much, and we damage the environment because we dont have catalytic converters on enough bikes...OMG!

1300+ bikes a day, become cars if we have to pay.
(Ok slight exageration but you get the drift)
Bikes also can GARANTEE 50% occupancy, and the lane spliiting crowd DEFINITLEY assist traffic flow, legally or otherwise

Points we all know allready obviously

what a load of anglican wastewater.......so 99 percent of our bikes dont have cats,what proportion of cars do?Cats actually slightly DECREASE efficiency albeit cleaning up what does come out.

[ciaocibai]

Signed. I've also contacted my local councilor to let them know my thoughts on the issue. It can't hurt them to know some constituents strongly object to these moves.

You can find the contact details for your local representative here: http://www.wellington.govt.nz/about/mayor/index.html - although I suppose we should try and keep things toned down until this meeting in early February.

I contacted my local MP (Peter Dunne) as well - his secretary at least - and they said they would share my concerns with the council.

Good work on organising the petition. Was just over 100 when I signed yesterday, and past 700 when I checked earlier this morning.

[StoneY]

Just gone over 900 sigs team keep it up!!!!

[Zookey]

Welly welly welly,i like the place# BUT. Good lord You must have one of the only towns that have free motorbike parking,there sure arnt any in the Bay,. What a carry on .next ya all wont chains ta tie down ya bikes,:weird:

[Pascal]

Do your bit by signing the "keep it free" petition

Jesus signed your petition. You're set, mate. Oh, and I've signed too.

[Dustydog]

Auckland tried this with trying to charge parking at Westhaven Marina for yachties cars who were already paying over the top fees for their marina berths. These councils can be greedy bastards and must be stopped. All this does is keep their gin cabinets stocked up.

[riffer]

Welly welly welly,i like the place# BUT. Good lord You must have one of the only towns that have free motorbike parking,there sure arnt any in the Bay,. What a carry on .next ya all wont chains ta tie down ya bikes,:weird:

TBH we could do without this sort of attitude mate. You sound like the people at my work who are bitching that "finally there will be some equality" for motorcyclists with cars.

[StoneY]

Welly welly welly,i like the place# BUT. Good lord You must have one of the only towns that have free motorbike parking,there sure arnt any in the Bay,. What a carry on .next ya all wont chains ta tie down ya bikes,:weird:

Wow the Bay sucks then...lets BIKOI it!

Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin all have free parking (although limited) and I believe in Auck's they allow bikes to 'share' a car space with a few basic rules to that.... Dave Clendon MP explained that to me two weeks ago in Parliaments cafeteria

Look, we are the HIGHEST paying road users in NZ as it is for vehicular capacity (2 persons max, 3 if sidecar) and reduce congestion immensley
The least they can do is recognise our pain with free parking

Worldwide many cities give free parking to motorcycles, Asussie (read Victoria) allow Motorcycles to use footpaths to park, there is a whole guideline booklet on the rules and protocols for this practise......

....sorry preaching to the converted again.... :)


1248 signatures wooot!!!!!!

[bogan]

Welly welly welly,i like the place# BUT. Good lord You must have one of the only towns that have free motorbike parking,there sure arnt any in the Bay,. What a carry on .next ya all wont chains ta tie down ya bikes,:weird:

palmy has got fucking millions of em :D (and in preferential spots too) and I'd like to keep it that way. In the main part of town there is probably a bike park every 100m max, and we can park in car ones if we wanna pay or if they are free p60s or whatever (though with the abundance of bike parks that seems a little inconsiderate). Thats why I do all my shopping with a pack rack and cargo net instead of the cage :D

[Dustydog]

Just another thought. Lets know if it's time for a Thunder Ride outside parliament

[BMWST?]

Funny old thing... A guy at work was elected as a Councilor at elections. He and others are not impressed with the new 'Green' Mayor - Apparently she is extremely 'Blue-Green' with a strong focus on making money...

when you are facing a huge bill for the actions of others you may tend to focus on the money as well

[BMWST?]

It would be a good idea but they introduced a by-law to make this illegal after we tried it last time. Motorcycles CANNOT park in Welly car parks.

motorcycles cannot park in pay and display car parks,you can park in and use a metered space

[kerryhare]

Get a car - and a job, if you are shopping during work hours.

I to go shopping on my bike down here in ChCH. I do have a car and a job, but work hrs are not 8-5. I prefer to take my bike then I cant buy to much.

[jafar]

1313 as of now on the petition, a lot of out of towners (like me) have signed too.:msn-wink:

I wonder if they will take the non wellington residents off the petition as we don't vote there??:jerry:

[buellbabe]

.... they also tried telling me and Riffer Motorcycles are not reducing congestion because we crash too much, and we damage the environment because we dont have catalytic converters on enough bikes...OMG!

1300+ bikes a day, become cars if we have to pay.
(Ok slight exageration but you get the drift)
Bikes also can GARANTEE 50% occupancy, and the lane spliiting crowd DEFINITLEY assist traffic flow, legally or otherwise

Points we all know allready obviously

Too right Stoney!

I fully support you Welly bikers!

Just haven't authenticated my email yet...will do tho...

As for that preposterous statement regarding bikers adding to the congestion cos we crash too much... WTF?

In all the years I have travelled NZ roads in a car and on a bike I have encountered a fair amount of congestion due to someone up ahead having an accident.

NOT once has a bike EVER been involved.
Seriously. NEVER! Yea I realise it may happen occasionally but I have never witnessed a motorcycle holding up traffic cos they have rear-ended another vehicle!

[NighthawkNZ]

Signed... what goes round comes round...

[NighthawkNZ]

1313 as of now on the petition, a lot of out of towners (like me) have signed too.:msn-wink:

I wonder if they will take the non wellington residents off the petition as we don't vote there??:jerry:

But we visit... now is a good time to get your big group of bikers and go and park in one car park each with the sign saying this is what will happen there will be less carparking...

add it all up people...

[BMWST?]

Stoney can you confirm if a bike is allowed to take a metered park?

[jafar]

But we visit... now is a good time to get your big group of bikers and go and park in one car park each with the sign saying this is what will happen there will be less carparking...

add it all up people...

We did that in auckland in 81 or thereabouts to protest the council ticketing 2 bikes in a carpark, they backed down after we took most of the parks in queen street. There were a lot of unhappy car drivers that day :bleh:

[buellbabe]

Yep! it ain't rocket science.

[riffer]

... they also tried telling me and Riffer Motorcycles are not reducing congestion because we crash too much, and we damage the environment because we dont have catalytic converters on enough bikes...OMG!

Since Brent's already mentioned it... BRONZ's original ePetition contained the following words:

BRONZ notes with concern that Council is considering this position on motorcycle parking in the central area. Motorcycles play a vital role in reducing traffic congestion and environmental damage and pollution.

This was rejected on the following grounds:Council considers this to be incorrect information because of the following reasons:

1) Council is not currently considering this position, rather it is reviewing its policies around motorcycle parking with a view to enter into public consultation regarding this topic.
2) Research has shown that collectively motorcycles do not reduce overall network congestion, largely due to the impact of serious accidents. Furthermore, although exhaust volumes are less, they are environmentally more damaging due to the toxicity of their exhaust (compared to cars with catalytic converters).

Therefore, with the current text we will have to reject to ePetition on the grounds of "containing inaccurate or misleading statements" http://www.wellington.govt.nz/<wbr>haveyoursay/e-petitions/ep/<wbr>createconditions/ (http://www.wellington.govt.nz/haveyoursay/e-petitions/ep/createconditions/)

[StoneY]

Stoney can you confirm if a bike is allowed to take a metered park?

Ask Nasty mate she would have direct access to this info far more quickly than I can find it :-)

[StoneY]

In all the years I have travelled NZ roads in a car and on a bike I have encountered a fair amount of congestion due to someone up ahead having an accident.

NOT once has a bike EVER been involved.
Seriously. NEVER! Yea I realise it may happen occasionally but I have never witnessed a motorcycle holding up traffic cos they have rear-ended another vehicle!

Bloody good point...neither have I, ya always see the off'ed bike at the roadside but never causing a lane to close like a cage incident does

[bogan]

2) Research has shown that collectively motorcycles do not reduce overall network congestion, largely due to the impact of serious accidents. Furthermore, although exhaust volumes are less, they are environmentally more damaging due to the toxicity of their exhaust (compared to cars with catalytic converters).

I'd be interested in seeing the research that shows we don't reduce network conjestion, don't suppose they were good enough to provide a reference? And the later depends on the scale of each, much less volume with slightly higher toxicity is still a win for the environment.

[oneofsix]

Bloody good point...neither have I, ya always see the off'ed bike at the roadside but never causing a lane to close like a cage incident does

seen it hold up traffic but really its the disco lights and rubberneckers that cause the hold-ups, the bike and rider are usually out the way. When it does happen it is far less often than with cages and for shorter time.

as to exhaust pollution modern bikes can't be far behind cages and the bike 'fleet' is more modern in general than the cages.

[Velocipede]

We need to present a united front to every local council in this country. We are already paying more than we should be as it is.

'Oh, its just because biker have more accidents...'

If that is the case, then why is registration cost increased based on engine CC and not rider crash history?

E.g. If I am an 'Invincible' 17 year old riding a 250 pocket rocket, why do I pay less than someone who has had an 1800cc Cruiser for forty years. And PROVEN they are a competent rider by the fact they are still breathing!

And Wellington City Council have (in my opinion) proven their incompetence with such a 'well thought out' proposal.:weird:

[Edbear]

Looks like I'm the only Aucklander supporting you guys down there.

And me... :niceone:

[StoneY]

And me... :niceone:

Im truly touched by how many non Wellingtonians have signed...there are even a few from Aussie!

[Beddhist]

Done.

Regarding the by-law: it's another sign of Kiwi insular thinking, I'm afraid. How is an out-of-towner, especially a tourist supposed to know that parking bikes in car park spaces is not allowed in Wgtn, but it is everywhere else? The road rules should be the same everywhere, unless this is clearly signposted.

Similarly, Rotorua DC some years ago introduced a by-law forbidding parking outside marked spaces anywhere in the CBD. They very happily handed out tickets to all and sundry. It is now clearly marked, however.

What worked quite well in Germany and France was to organise bike rallies on busy shopping days, especially long Saturdays, descending on the CBD and parking one bike in every car park space. It usually only takes one action day to achieve the desired result, as it hits business people in their pockets and they have leverage, if not seats on councils. I realise that with this extra bike-unfriendly by-law you would have to seriously outnumber meter wardens to make this work.

If you need another bikoi make sure you have it on a suitable day when it maximises profit reduction.

Cheers,
Peter, stuck in the Thai rice paddies for a while...

[happyguy]

Many years ago Australia tried to ban motorcycles for parking on the footpath, it's wasn't that the rider didn't want to pay a parking fee but to save room for motorist other forums of transport for eg cars. So one week some of MRA riders decided if that was going to be the case then there was only one thing to do and that was to fill up the parking spots with 1 bike and not let any cars be able to park in any of the parking spaces as the parking fee is for 1 reg vehicle, now when this happened the people that drove cars were very upset as they had no-where to park as to go to work, therefore there were alot of people complained to RTA about the problems they were faceing. Now short end of this story if NZ want to put a parking fee on riders you could have it overturned by doing the same thing. Lets face it, a car takes 1 spot so could a motorcycle.

[kapiti_nigel]

Petition signed :niceone:

[cheshirecat]

Does one have to be a welly res for this petition.

Because because we could post this on a few internatioanal bike forums -

I'll just checked wcc website and the only thing i can find is this.

"As a creator of an ePetition you will be responsible for raising awareness about it. This involves encouraging others to add their name to the ePetition. If this is not done, your ePetition may not receive any signatures. Council staff do not promote any individual petitions."

[oneofsix]

Does one have to be a welly res for this petition.

Because because we could post this on a few internatioanal bike forums

I'll just check wcc website.

It just asked for an address, didn't say residential, so I used my work address as that is when the parking most affects me.

[Sieffe]

Ahem! (polite cough) I do go shopping on my bike . . . .saves a lot money when I have to work out how heavy the end result might be! hahahahaha!
Cheers, Sieffe:msn-wink:


[QUOTE=

Daftest thing I have heard since they made the motorbike parking spaces time restrictive - who the hell goes shopping in town on a bike?[/QUOTE]

[cheshirecat]

It just asked for an address, didn't say residential, so I used my work address as that is when the parking most affects me.
I just sent them an email

There are a few good bike website forums/facebook and of course these guys (http://notobikeparkingtax.com/) and their sister french web site - plus a few others.

hey have we done a facebook page on this yet! Stoney should we set one up? we/I could do it in two sparrows (or one traffic warden) farts

[cheshirecat]

Just got this reply back from the council

"Hi Marc,

anybody can sign a petition and they are required to provide their residential address when they sign it.

Natalie "

we're on.

[GOONR]

http://notobikeparkingtax.com has a forum, I've just joined and asked if people would sign the petition.

Lets see what happens.

[StoneY]

hey have we done a facebook page on this yet! Stoney should we set one up? we/I could do it in two sparrows (or one traffic warden) farts

The BRONZ facebook page has it but by all means go ahead and make a dedicated facebook page for the petition, good idea!

[cheshirecat]

footnote
Just entered it on visordown and http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewforum.php?f=51

[riffer]

I'd be interested in seeing the research that shows we don't reduce network conjestion, don't suppose they were good enough to provide a reference? And the later depends on the scale of each, much less volume with slightly higher toxicity is still a win for the environment.

In the interests of transparency, since I've already alluded to it, here's some of the discourse between myself and WCC reps:

Dear xxxx

thanks for this feedback. We will review the wording of our petition and resubmit the e-petition.

In the meantime, I'd like to ask you to pass on the following questions to the Manager of Infrastructure Performance:

1. Can you provide BRONZ with a 100% guarantee that motorcyclists will retain free parking and that motorcycle parking spaces will not be reduced or otherwise altered?

2. How long can you provide this written guarantee?

3. In light of the fact that EURO3 regulations (that ALL new motorcycles sold in NZ must meet) require motorcycles to have catalytic converters, which (allegedly) make motorcycles less environmentally damaging, and that motorcycles have had catalytic converters for as long as cars, could you please submit to BRONZ (at the CC'd email address) the research (or a link to it) that shows that Wellington motorcycle traffic is more environmentally damaging due to lack of compliance with environmental standards than Wellington motor car traffic?

4. Could you also please submit to BRONZ (at the cc'd email address) the research (or link to it) that shows the effect on the environment in Wellington that Serious Motorcycle crashes in the Wellington Central City, as opposed to Serious Motor Car crashes?

If this is not the correct way to request this information, or if we have to do this through an Official Information Request please could you let me know?

WCC response:

Hi Simon,

I have consulted with the relevant officer. This is probably not the best stage of the petition process to enter into debates about the traffic and environmental impacts of motorcycles. The most important task at the moment is to get the ePetition concerning charging fees up and running on the website.

The process of ePetitions is as follows:

- a member of the public applies for an ePetition
- epetition is approved or rejected. If rejected the ePetition applicant is encouraged to make relevant changes.
- wording of epetition is resubmitted if necessary
- epetition goes live on the website, and runs for the delegated time period
- when the epetition closes the epetitioner chooses which meeting / committee they wish to present the epetition to.
- at the chosen meeting an Officers' Response is written by a Council officer which expresses Council's point of view and other considerations. It is in this report that the Officer is likely to refer to research. The Officers Response is forwarded to the ePetitioner before the meeting.
- When the ePetitioner presents their petition, they can argue against the officers response, table information that supports their position and give background to the petition.
- The committee members make resolutions in response to the epetition. This may include, officers to consider the epetition to inform their work, officers to explore the request of the ePetition and provide feedback to the committee, that no further action will be required etc.

At this stage I encourage you to resubmit the wording for the background information for the ePetition as previously suggested.

[Zerker]

Signed


Zerker

[cheshirecat]

Facebook page just opened up for this

http://www.facebook.com/editprofile.php?sk=basic&success=1#!/profile.php?id=100002001124789

I haven't added much having jsut done it so imput welcome, especially photos.

[bogan]

thanks for posting that riffer, pisses me off that they would claim to have studies against your point, but be unwilling to give you the reference, but I guess that just shows what we are up against...

[TygerTung]

I have signed the petition and I emailed the mayor of Wellington. I live in Christchurch, but I am concerned about this as I believe it could set a precedent.

Here is the letter I sent:

Dear Mayor Celia Wade-Brown,

I am writing to give you some input regarding the proposed changes to the Wellington parking, specifically, the proposed changes regarding motorcycle and scooter parking.

I believe that you should not charge motorcycles for parking for the following reasons:

-They take much less room to park, you could fit around 8 motorcycles in the place of one car.
-They reduce congestion on the road as they are much smaller than cars.
-They have less emissions than cars.
-They use less fuel, and other resources than cars such as oil and other consumables.
-They cause less wear on the road as well as they are much lighter

This lighter smaller, more eco friendly form of transport should be encouraged, rather than discouraged. If more people rode motorcycles and scooters there would be much less congestion on the roads, less pollution in the air, and less resources used.

I earnestly recommend that motorcycles remain free to park in the Wellington area.

Yours Sincerely,

Samuel James Lochiel Stockwell

[riffer]

thanks for posting that riffer, pisses me off that they would claim to have studies against your point, but be unwilling to give you the reference, but I guess that just shows what we are up against...
Just the start of the battle my friend. I'm kind of looking forward to it. If there's one thing I can do, it's digest vast amounts of information and turn it into a compelling argument for my case. And when it's about something I'm very passionate about like motorcycling, then gawd help those who stand in my way...

As they said, once we present the petition, then we can absolutely hammer them with enough information to shut the Manager of Infrastructure Performance up once and for all.

[rustic101]

when you are facing a huge bill for the actions of others you may tend to focus on the money as well

Not disagreeing as I'm Blue through and through...

What I bloody do object to is paying for that bloody stadium.. Every time I've been to a rugby game I have to pay full price I mean wtf I'm already paying part of my rates to the GWCC solely for the steal monster..

[steve_t]

How long does it take for the confirmation email to come thru? I checked my spam etc and it's been about 10 mins already

[cheshirecat]

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home

photos, links etc welcome

[riffer]

This one might help better than your home page link.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002001124789#!/profile.php?id=100002001124789

[cheshirecat]

That's weird - thought this was on a new thread. dam slippery that facebook.

[SpankMe]

How long does it take for the confirmation email to come thru? I checked my spam etc and it's been about 10 mins already

Should be instant, try again.

[Jvala]

I happily signed the petition. But - motorbikers can’t win, can we? Firstly the Govt stings us with higher ACC levies despite evidence showing it’s unnecessary; regardless, we keep on biking. Secondly, by motorbiking to work, we reduce congestion on motorways etc. just to find that cars regularly are using bike parks for their short term parking. And now, we supposed to pay for the privilege of reducing traffic jams – defies logic. WCC, please go to European cities and observe what’s happening there. They are happy to allow bikes (with or without engine) to park very densely. My plea – do your homework instead of thinking of ways to fill council coffers.

[jrandom]

A. Nobody who matters gives a fuck about internet 'petitions'.

B. If you want free parking, get a bicycle, you fat cunts.

[all4A50s]

SIGNED

So correct me if I am wrong so I can make sense of the points the council are saying;
They started ticketing/towing bikes parked on footpaths because of safety concerns, which in effect forced us to park on the road in designated places, where the bikes are more prone to being knocked over by wind or another vehicle. Not to mention the damage from bird poo as I can't park in an off street covered area and I can't park in the paid covered areas because of the bylaws prohibiting this.

They introduce time limited parks, which are filled up with commercial vehicles, limiting our usage. And don't ticket them (I see this happen daily).

They cite facts of emission and accident levels to justify introduction of fees for stationary vehicles with their engines turned off.

What I would also like to know;
Are they a going to supply free of charge water and wind-proof pouches or stickers that won't damage my bike in anyway?

Will the charge reflect the size of vehicle?

If the parking for motorcycles be limited to designated areas are they going to supply free transport for those who are unable to walk far?

Will they introduce a system if paying by a machine for those who are unable to illiterate?

Are they going to sign post and clearly mark where the areas they "Manage" so we don't inadvertently park illegally?

[scracha]

Feedback?

Some clever dick at BRONZ could do a redirect on their webpage to a nice short URL.
228727

[yungatart]

Welly welly welly,i like the place# BUT. Good lord You must have one of the only towns that have free motorbike parking,there sure arnt any in the Bay,. What a carry on .next ya all wont chains ta tie down ya bikes,:weird:

You want to get out of Havelock North occasionally. Plenty of free bike parks in Napier

Signed...stick it to 'em boys. We can't tolerate such garbage any more

[steve_t]

Should be instant, try again.

I tried again but it said I had already entered those details. It came through about 20 mins ago. Cheer mate :niceone:

[jazzman]

If you Welli guys want to sort these fucks organise a ride into welli and take up all the car parks and pay for them at peak time. Pissed off cage drivers will sort the fucken council for you

[Zookey]

You want to get out of Havelock North occasionally. Plenty of free bike parks in Napier

Signed...stick it to 'em boys. We can't tolerate such garbage any more

I seem to have lost the plot here ,as i thought we were discussing dedicated motorcycle parking,and when i get the trumpet serviced at Anza in Palmy damned if i saw any,and only cars parked outside their showrooms,and that goes for all the local Bike shops.:doh:

[Zookey]

If you Welli guys want to sort these fucks organise a ride into welli and take up all the car parks and pay for them at peak time. Pissed off cage drivers will sort the fucken council for you

What a good idea ,as long as you could get them away from the forum long enough.

[Kendog]

I seem to have lost the plot here ,as i thought we were discussing dedicated motorcycle parking,and when i get the trumpet serviced at Anza in Palmy damned if i saw any,and only cars parked outside their showrooms,and that goes for all the local Bike shops.:doh:
You must be losing the plot, last time I rode to Palmy there were designated free bike parks all over the place. Not big parking spaces like Wellington, but free marked smaller spaces pretty much everywhere a car would not fit.

[Meekey_Mouse]

I'll be signing the petition, but...

"Retain free parking for motorcycles in Wellington Central City

We, the undersigned, request that Wellington City Council continue to provide free parking for motorcycles within the Wellington Central City at the current designated motorcycle parking spaces."

Doesn't this mean that even if they acknowledge this petition and agree to it, any further bike parks they create can be created to charge?

I'm not trying to bag the person who wrote this up at all, just merely asking a question

[Scuba_Steve]

You must be losing the plot, last time I rode to Palmy there were designated free bike parks all over the place. Not big parking spaces like Wellington, but free marked smaller spaces pretty much everywhere a car would not fit.

yea palmys full of 'em anywhere theres a FH where there would otherwise be a car park, thats a bike park (obviously your NOT allowed to block or cover the FH itself tho) and anywhere by corners etc where theres not enough room for another car park, you'll also find a bike park.

[riffer]

I'll be signing the petition, but...

"Retain free parking for motorcycles in Wellington Central City

We, the undersigned, request that Wellington City Council continue to provide free parking for motorcycles within the Wellington Central City at the current designated motorcycle parking spaces."

Doesn't this mean that even if they acknowledge this petition and agree to it, any further bike parks they create can be created to charge?

I'm not trying to bag the person who wrote this up at all, just merely asking a question

As the person who instigated the epetition please allow me to clarify. WCC have rejected outright anything other than this petition. The words in this petition come directly from the Manager of Infrastructure Performance, and the ONLY way we were able to get ANY EPETITION AT ALL was if we went with it. Unfortunately BRONZ hands were tied on this one.

Having said that, the petition does not mean we are not able to push for more. BRONZ, WIMA, MAG and other motorcycling representatives will be meeting with WCC on February 1 and we WILL be demanding a raft of measures to save free motorcycle parking, establish more free motorcycle parks, institute motorcycle lanes for safer riding in the city, and a number of other measures I can't mention at the moment as we are still working on the details.

- Simon Gotlieb

[GOONR]

Stuff Article (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4540138/Riders-pledge-protests-if-free-motorcycle-parks-go)

[Nasty]

As the person who instigated the epetition please allow me to clarify. WCC have rejected outright anything other than this petition. The words in this petition come directly from the Manager of Infrastructure Performance, and the ONLY way we were able to get ANY EPETITION AT ALL was if we went with it. Unfortunately BRONZ hands were tied on this one.

Having said that, the petition does not mean we are not able to push for more. BRONZ, WIMA, MAG and other motorcycling representatives will be meeting with WCC on February 1 and we WILL be demanding a raft of measures to save free motorcycle parking, establish more free motorcycle parks, institute motorcycle lanes for safer riding in the city, and a number of other measures I can't mention at the moment as we are still working on the details.

- Simon Gotlieb

To me it seems a fair and reasonable petition ... according to the article this morning http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4540138/Riders-pledge-protests-if-free-motorcycle-parks-go - there is yet another threat from motorcyclists ... but when reading you find that this issue is not out for public consultation yet. So there is plenty of time to rally the troops . .and also to partcipate in that process.

The petition is a good way to commence the process for this year. This does appear to be something that drags its ugly head up every year or two.

[Elysium]

Petition signed.

[Scuba_Steve]

Stuff Article (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4540138/Riders-pledge-protests-if-free-motorcycle-parks-go)

Brent's upgraded to a GN250 I see, Duke & KTM not enough power for you? :laugh:

There a bit behind the times too we're up over 2500 sigs

[Genie]

WCC are reviewing the use of on-road motorcycle parking, which may include the introduction of fees / charges.

Do your bit by signing the "keep it free" petition:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/haveyoursay/e-petitions/ep/details/147

Here is a link to the policy:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/plans/policies/parking/pdfs/parking2007-09.pdf

The Policy was drafted September 2007 with an implementation timeframe of 3 - 5 years. The motorcycle section in question is on pg 28 which states:
"f. Review the provision for motorcycle parking,
including investigating issues such as quantity of
spaces, location, parking price and motorcycle
parking provision in town and suburban centres"

PS: Kudos and credit to BRONZ for organising this.

EDIT: Even if you aren't a Wellingtonian (I don't blame you, honest) - sign the petition. If parking fees for motorcycles goes ahead here, you can guarantee one council will set a precedent for other councils "justifying" fees to be a nationwide thing.

Done....and dusted.

[cheshirecat]

This comment last from a UK forum. I was there in May and saw one of the protests and it certainly made a positive difference when they got the cabs and buses on their side.
My 2c I think any public protest should be in the form of general extortionate parking fees. There is no strong argument for any vehicle parking charges other than a tax.

Here's his quote.

"Learn from the No To Bike Parking Tax campaign, both their good and bad points:

"Start on your legal fund now if you haven't already.
Take action directed at hitting the council in the pocket, i.e. help other road users to avoid being charged or fined.
Find allies where you can (e.g. commercial drivers) but don't waste your time trying to get general road users on your side.
Don't protest in a way that pisses off other road users - they'll turn on you rather than on the Council.

Best of luck with that."

[DougieNZ]

An interesting debate.

I hate to go against the tide here - but - is the current siituation actually benefiting all motorcyclists in Wellington? Try coming in to town (CBD) on your motorcycle during the day at present and finding a park. Bloody near impossible. So we have motorcyclists (who are also ratepayers by the way) who cannot co me in to town during the day and find a motorcycle park. They cannot park at all in fact because they can't park in a car space either. Is this of benefit to ALL Wellington motorcyclists?

Should anyone be able to demand to park a motorocycle on the street all day for free if this impedes other motorcyclists from coming in to town? Should we be able to demand free parking or more free motorcycle parks?

I have seen threads in here complaining about cyclists using roads and making demands for cycleways when they do not pay anything for the priviledge... Pots and kettles?

I favour a time limit system retaining free parking in town. I don't believe it is unreasonable to charge long term parkers $2 per day (car parkers pay $15-30 in the CBD) for parking all day in the city in a space specifically set aside for them - and thus freeing up sone time restricted free parking for shoppers and short term parkers.

Whatever the solution it needs to be good for all motorcyclists. I believe the status quo is not.

[oneofsix]

An interesting debate.

I hate to go against the tide here - but - is the current siituation actually benefiting all motorcyclists in Wellington? Try coming in to town (CBD) on your motorcycle during the day at present and finding a park. Bloody near impossible. So we have motorcyclists (who are also ratepayers by the way) who cannot co me in to town during the day and find a motorcycle park. They cannot park at all in fact because they can't park in a car space either. Is this of benefit to ALL Wellington motorcyclists?

Should anyone be able to demand to park a motorocycle on the street all day for free if this impedes other motorcyclists from coming in to town? Should we be able to demand free parking or more free motorcycle parks?

I have seen threads in here complaining about cyclists using roads and making demands for cycleways when they do not pay anything for the priviledge... Pots and kettles?

I favour a time limit system retaining free parking in town. I don't believe it is unreasonable to charge long term parkers $2 per day (car parkers pay $15-30 in the CBD) for parking all day in the city in a space specifically set aside for them - and thus freeing up sone time restricted free parking for shoppers and short term parkers.

Whatever the solution it needs to be good for all motorcyclists. I believe the status quo is not.

Step back a bit. The Council have passed a by-law to stop bikes using pa n display, not sure the by-law is legal but it there. The council have forced bikes to stop parking in out of the way places on footpaths, even tried ticketing bikes on private property that borders footpaths. The council has reduced bike parking. unlike in Palmy were space not suitable for cars but not otherwise illegal is disignated for bikes the Welly council paints yellow lines so bikes can't use it. There isn't enough public transport nor car parking to handle the bikers if they don't ride in. And now the bikers are the bad guys? :weird:

[BMWST?]

Not disagreeing as I'm Blue through and through...

What I bloody do object to is paying for that bloody stadium.. Every time I've been to a rugby game I have to pay full price I mean wtf I'm already paying part of my rates to the GWCC solely for the steal monster..

ditto mate ditto.....and the price of the beer!

[coreys]

With all due respect, a petition isn't worth the paper it is written on.
When i lived in Australia the Victorian government tried a similar thing as what is proposed in Wgtn.
The bikers of Melbourne banded together and rode into the CBD very early on a saturday AM .Each Bike occupied a single car parking space, with courier bikes occupying all loading zones.
The Melbourne MC club explained to the business community that the bikers of Melbourne would continue to do this every Saturday unless the parking rules were left alone... After 'consulting' with business community, The local council decided to NOT vote in parking fees for motorcycles.
If you want change you have to do more then sign a stupid piece of paper to feel good about yourselves.

Grow a pair and organise affirmative action.

[GOONR]

....
If you want change you have to do more then sign a stupid piece of paper to feel good about yourselves.

Grow a pair and organise affirmative action.

That will happen if needed.

[riffer]

With all due respect, a petition isn't worth the paper it is written on.
When i lived in Australia the Victorian government tried a similar thing as what is proposed in Wgtn.
The bikers of Melbourne banded together and rode into the CBD very early on a saturday AM .Each Bike occupied a single car parking space, with courier bikes occupying all loading zones.
The Melbourne MC club explained to the business community that the bikers of Melbourne would continue to do this every Saturday unless the parking rules were left alone... After 'consulting' with business community, The local council decided to NOT vote in parking fees for motorcycles.
If you want change you have to do more then sign a stupid piece of paper to feel good about yourselves.

Grow a pair and organise affirmative action.

Indeed, and this action may come if needed. Of course there is a process to all these things, and if you go off half-cocked and occupy the car parking spaces, which I might add IS ILLEGAL IN WELLINGTON, unlike Melbourne, without following the process, you would find yourself having difficulty in establishing any dialog with Council in the future, and also quite likely end up with a number of people getting arrested.

[BMWST?]

With all due respect, a petition isn't worth the paper it is written on.
When i lived in Australia the Victorian government tried a similar thing as what is proposed in Wgtn.
The bikers of Melbourne banded together and rode into the CBD very early on a saturday AM .Each Bike occupied a single car parking space, with courier bikes occupying all loading zones.
The Melbourne MC club explained to the business community that the bikers of Melbourne would continue to do this every Saturday unless the parking rules were left alone... After 'consulting' with business community, The local council decided to NOT vote in parking fees for motorcycles.
If you want change you have to do more then sign a stupid piece of paper to feel good about yourselves.

Grow a pair and organise affirmative action.

hang on cobber.....the petition is a start....a warning,lets see what the response is first.

[Mokadah]

You want to get out of Havelock North occasionally. Plenty of free bike parks in Napier


There are none in Hastings district. I did once ask the head of parking why, and he said they were considering it... that was about four years ago. We're expected to take up a full car space and pay full car rates.

Still not sure I understand the compelling argument for bikes having completely free parking though.

I mean it's brilliant and you should fight to keep it, but it sounds like demand far outstrips supply in the Wellington CBD. If you're taking up, say, 20% of the room of a car park, why should you not pay a proportional parking fee?

[thefatboy]

What a load of shit,we went through this a few years ago
One question I had was if they did charge,where would you put the parking label??

Good on you guys for organising the petition

Signed up & have passed on to others

Exactly, some bastard would end up stealing it.......

[thefatboy]

There are none in Hastings district. I did once ask the head of parking why, and he said they were considering it... that was about four years ago. We're expected to take up a full car space and pay full car rates.

Still not sure I understand the compelling argument for bikes having completely free parking though.

I mean it's brilliant and you should fight to keep it, but it sounds like demand far outstrips supply in the Wellington CBD. If you're taking up, say, 20% of the room of a car park, why should you not pay a proportional parking fee?

Come on Dude , if you read the stuff , you'd see that motorcycles aren't allowed to park in car spaces in Wellington , the council has a bylaw that says bikes can't use them.

Really stupid , isn't it , if i want to park my bike in a car park and pay for it , why can't I. My bikes pretty big and will fill a fair ammouint of a car space if parked paralell.

[riffer]

Come on Dude , if you read the stuff , you'd see that motorcycles aren't allowed to park in car spaces in Wellington , the council has a bylaw that says bikes can't use them.

Really stupid , isn't it , if i want to park my bike in a car park and pay for it , why can't I. My bikes pretty big and will fill a fair ammouint of a car space if parked paralell.

Because they traded off the motorcycles parking in paid parking spaces in return for 500 free motorcycle parks. Please try to keep up.

[bogan]

I mean it's brilliant and you should fight to keep it, but it sounds like demand far outstrips supply in the Wellington CBD. If you're taking up, say, 20% of the room of a car park, why should you not pay a proportional parking fee?

Partially because the cost of collection of a 20% fee exceedes the fee collected (well it used to anyway, not sure about now), and partially because bikes should be an encouraged form of transport, less feul use, less conjestion, less road wear etc... Though the later point could be outweighed by the perception that 1 in 18 motorcycle trips results in death :rolleyes:

[gsp0702]

Well it was interesting article in this mornings Dom Post (Stuff), now I may be wrong but what I took from the article this morning that with approximately 500 free bike parking places in Wellington City and an estimated 1100 bikes comimg into the city daily there is inadquate provision of parking for motorcycles.

The councils options as inferred by them was keep the status quo of 500 spaces which will become ever more inadquate but no charge for parking or increase the number of available spaces but that costs them money, either creating the new parking or removing current metered or pay and display car spaces to make way for bikes and not unsurprisingly if that were to happen they are likely to impliment charges.

Anyway interesting article and I will watch with interest, and yes I have signed the petition and encouraged all other motorcyclists to take a look.

[riffer]

Though the later point could be outweighed by the perception that 1 in 18 motorcycle trips results in death :rolleyes:

Where the fuck did you get that garbage from bogan? Cite your source for gawd's sake.

[bogan]

Where the fuck did you get that garbage from bogan? Cite your source for gawd's sake.

:lol: I was taking the piss out of the anti-bikers using the 18x number for whatever they feel like. Though it was obviously a piss take? :whistle:

[riffer]

:lol: I was taking the piss out of the anti-bikers using the 18x number for whatever they feel like. Though it was obviously a piss take? :whistle:

Don't do that dude. On the internet everyone has Aspergers.

[StoneY]

With all due respect, a petition isn't worth the paper it is written on.

If you want change you have to do more then sign a stupid piece of paper to feel good about yourselves.

Grow a pair and organise affirmative action.

The petition is not our only weapon here dude

I have already arranged with MAG's Wellington rep that should this peaceful initiative be ignored, despite the thousands of signatures, then its outright full on protest activity much like you've just suggested, and trust me we have run enough protests to know how to do it (9,500 on Parliaments lawns was no small event after all)

Give us some time to do this by consultation and public opinion support, before we call in the artillery huh?

At this point we are simply invited to discuss the options council and motorcyclists have, and they more than suggested we are going to have to start paying fee's or move into private carparks

The purpose of negotiation and intended outcomes are:


To shut this issue down, and hopefully convince TPTB to give us MORE bike parks with various area's being timelimited, or even free parking building access (unlikely)
Maybe get this ridiculous 'stay off the footpaths' shit overturned, with useless pavemnet space like in Boulcott st re-opened up to us OFFICIALLY with suitable guidelines such as in Melbourne, Amsterdam, Berlin and London...for example cities

So........ let us do the talking first.....
IF, and only IF that fails we thne deliver a massive sucker punch with our friends at MAG taking over to provide 'ACTION" as appropriate and trust me, we will be there boots and all
It is actually against BRONZ constitution to encourage disruption...does not stop us partaking in such action if others will lead it though


Summary of situation

Formal consultation is months away
Febuary 1st is a quiet discussion with the council officers

At that discussion, BRONZ, MAG and WIMA (as well as Ulysses) will present our organisational wants/needs to best represent the Motorcycling Public of Wellington as best we can

The petition is what we like to refer as a pre match warm-up, bit of a stretch, some bag work, get the cheerleader squad sorted out.....
Hope this helps everyone understand where we stand so far?

Oh yeah.......
I have a bigger pair than you mate....rest assured it no lack of balls that lead us in this direction pal
:bleh:

[caseye]

Pussy, ya have not! LOL.
First we must attempt to play by the/their rules.
Then we get organised and go to town, every day, morning noon and night if needed.
This ain't happening.

[riffer]

Pussy, ya have not! LOL.
First we must attempt to play by the/their rules.
Then we get organised and go to town, every day, morning noon and night if needed.
This ain't happening.

I likes the cut of ye jib matey.

[Big Dave]

Stoney looking stoic on stuff.co.nz
Hey man is that a GN250 youse ridin's?

[StoneY]

Stoney looking stoic on stuff.co.nz
Hey man is that a GN250 youse ridin's?

No idea who's GN that is but had to tell off the photographer for placing a balance foot on zomeones ZX thou and tripping the alarm. LOL

My KTM Super Duke gets placed in the garage at work (an undisclosed govt dept muwahahaha)

[Zookey]

You must be losing the plot, last time I rode to Palmy there were designated free bike parks all over the place. Not big parking spaces like Wellington, but free marked smaller spaces pretty much everywhere a car would not fit.

Sure as hell must have Kendog,probably its the one track in and out as quick as possible ,and and the old fellows mind on watching the tin tops.

[Clockwork]

Just a thought...


Parking in Pay and Display spaces may be illegal through by-laws but "protesting" in them may be a reasonable response under the "Bill of Rights act"


May be under
14 Freedom of expression

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.

16 Freedom of peaceful assembly

Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly.

17 Freedom of association

Everyone has the right to freedom of association.


Not too sure on this but I seem to recall some protester who was prosecuted for burning a flag getting acquitted when he claimed it was a legitimate form of protest.

Perhaps a Freedom of exression?

[Bald Eagle]

It's not like the council is short of a $ or two with their share of parking revenue.
Stuff today (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4544135/Spymobile-rakes-in-the-cash)

"The council retains nearly half of the $9.7m annual revenue it collects in parking fines"

[p.dath]

3000+ participants in the petition. Checked the others, and this by far is the most successful.

[oldguy]

Done, petition signed

[Hawkeye]

Signed (and ready)

[GOONR]

Added a new campaign page to the MAG-NZ (http://www.mag-nz.org/campaigns/freeparking) site. The page will be updated with any developments.

[StoneY]

Added a new campaign page to the MAG-NZ (http://www.mag-nz.org/campaigns/freeparking) site. The page will be updated with any developments.

Awesome bro. Bling ya when I have some more rep to give out

Amazing...we all fight like pack rats every day, every week, year in year out...... but when we come under attack at any level, Kiwibikers unite like no group of folk I have ever seen before in any facet of lifestyle

It happened for BIKEOI, again with the young rider who died leaving his 16 year old widow........and over parking now....makes me proud to be a flame warrior!!!!!

Thanks MAG for the solid support to Wellington Motorcyclists
A new era in cooperative representation is truly at hand

[Bald Eagle]

Added a new campaign page to the MAG-NZ (http://www.mag-nz.org/campaigns/freeparking) site. The page will be updated with any developments.

Bling applied

[StoneY]

3000+ participants in the petition. Checked the others, and this by far is the most successful.

One old one that was regarding the recycle bins has 9000 sig's but man that's a far more wider public than mere bikers, however this one is now officially the second biggest ever....and its less than a week old!

The Recycler Bins took 3 months to get 9k siggies
:niceone:

[Big Dave]

B. If you want free parking, get a bicycle, you fat cunts.

Some of us are smart enough to keep our licences.

[DEVVIL]

Signed... will need to book leave to come down so keep us updated FB KB

[BMWST?]

There are none in Hastings district. I did once ask the head of parking why, and he said they were considering it... that was about four years ago. We're expected to take up a full car space and pay full car rates.

Still not sure I understand the compelling argument for bikes having completely free parking though.

I mean it's brilliant and you should fight to keep it, but it sounds like demand far outstrips supply in the Wellington CBD. If you're taking up, say, 20% of the room of a car park, why should you not pay a proportional parking fee?

because of the other benefits of having 1300 odd bikes coming into the city instead of 1300 more cars.With just a little bit of thought bike parks could be incorporated in many places with little loss of car parking or other amenities.However the councils own plan is to DISCOURAGE all day parking on the streets,its in the district plan.This review happens regularly

[taff1954]

Amazing...we all fight like pack rats every day, every week, year in year out...... but when we come under attack at any level, Kiwibikers unite like no group of folk I have ever seen before in any facet of lifestyle

Ain't that a fact.

Petition duly signed (both of us, of course)

I'd be interested to see what NPDCs views are, especially given the current mayors' support for bikers during the ACC protests.

[Pussy]

I'd be interested to see what NPDCs views are, especially given the current mayors' support for bikers during the ACC protests.

New Plymouth's current mayor is an idiot.
You could write a full and comprehensive list of his achievements on the back of a .60c stamp with a builder's pencil

[StoneY]

Hope this aint a double post.... just received through BRONZ connections, some very good stuff

http://notobikeparkingtax.com/

Campaign allies


The chap from Island Bay thats been lobbying council has contacted BRONZ as well... he is solidly in our camp and has a primo submission!

Ill get our secretary to check we can copy it here before I post content tho so bear with us guys (our org has some rules after all and its not all about me and what I wanna say...honestly!)

WIMA, Ulysses, and MAG are all on board as well
The machine is rolling, lets make it a juggernaut that cannot be ignored!

[jrandom]

Some of us are smart enough to keep our licences.

Heh! A minority, though. A fairly tiny minority.

Running afoul of the road regulations is a rite of motorcycling passage, Dave. A rite that one generally goes through before taking it to the racetrack and getting it out of one's system. A rite that one suspects is a necessary prerequisite to becoming an interesting bike mag writer.

(The rhetorical device I employed there is called 'anaphora', by the way. Try it sometime!)

Anyhow. That was off-topic. You're still a bunch of tubby whinging scrooges who don't want to pay to take up space in cramped central cities, or sweat a few drops instead of using motor vehicles.

I do not expect to see any decision-making sympathies successfully engaged on the subject.

[Big Dave]

I was just taking the piss! 'Get f@cked' would have done.

Yeah we have track testers and road testers - but I got top billing in this month's KR :blip:

[James Deuce]

For those who refuse to read the fine print (Dan, Mokadah and others):

1. WCC have a bylaw that prevents motorcycles from using metered parks. Motorcycles are not allowed to park in them.

2. Wilson Parking have a policy that prevents motorcycles from parking in car parks in their parking buildings.

3. WCC have banned parking on the footpath (obviously where it doesn't impact on pedestrian access - anyone who blocks the footpath deserves a ticket) and will ticket people parked on private property adjacent to footpaths. You are then left with providing proof that you are parked on private property.

Remove motorcycle parking and where do bikes park? WCC claim to be investigating contracting parks from private enterprise, but private enterprise has actively prevented casual parking by motorcycles in parking buildings for the last 25 years. If there is a contract signed it will take months (if ever) for Wilson parking to magic up the parking spaces without affecting space for cars. Tournament Parking have no clear policy, but I used to have trouble from time to time when I parked my bike in my personal permanent park provided by work. I had a bit of comedy watching some idiot trying to affix a wheel clamp to my bike.

This doesn't look like a "make bikes pay for parking move to me". This looks like an attempt to prevent people using bikes for commuting. At least, they'll make it expensive enough for people to consider public transport as a viable alternative. At worst, there will simply be nowhere to park a bike in the Wellington CBD. If you have to be anywhere on time Wellington public transport is utter bullshit.

[pzkpfw]

... This looks like an attempt to prevent people using bikes for commuting. ...

Rhetorical question: have you seen how many one-person-per-car commuters there are on the motorways?!

They (WCC et al) seem to be looking the wrong way to "fix" whatever problem they are working on.

[caseye]

For those who refuse to read the fine print (Dan, Mokadah and others):

1. WCC have a bylaw that prevents motorcycles from using metered parks. Motorcycles are not allowed to park in them.

2. Wilson Parking have a policy that prevents motorcycles from parking in car parks in their parking buildings.

3. WCC have banned parking on the footpath (obviously where it doesn't impact on pedestrian access - anyone who blocks the footpath deserves a ticket) and will ticket people parked on private property adjacent to footpaths. You are then left with providing proof that you are parked on private property.

Remove motorcycle parking and where do bikes park? WCC claim to be investigating contracting parks from private enterprise, but private enterprise has actively prevented casual parking by motorcycles in parking buildings for the last 25 years. If there is a contract signed it will take months (if ever) for Wilson parking to magic up the parking spaces without affecting space for cars. Tournament Parking have no clear policy, but I used to have trouble from time to time when I parked my bike in my personal permanent park provided by work. I had a bit of comedy watching some idiot trying to affix a wheel clamp to my bike.

This doesn't look like a "make bikes pay for parking move to me". This looks like an attempt to prevent people using bikes for commuting. At least, they'll make it expensive enough for people to consider public transport as a viable alternative. At worst, there will simply be nowhere to park a bike in the Wellington CBD. If you have to be anywhere on time Wellington public transport is utter bullshit.

Awesome post JD, I too don't believe it's anything to do with parking issues but the councils ( after a big push by Pollies I'd wager) attempt to make it uneconomic/viable to use motorcycles to commute.
This cannot be allowed to happen as per the last episode if we let it happen in Welly, it WILL HAPPEN everywhere else in the country.

[BMWST?]

actually having read the policy i dont think there is much here to threaten us.The coucil have undertaken to keep motorycle parking

from table 2
Parking for:
• Shoppers
• Community
facilities
• Educational
facilities
• Residents
• Commuters
• Sportsfields
The use of on-street road space to park cars and
motorbikes, be it through:
• metered and non-metered short stay parking to
support retail, commercial and other activity
• residents’ parking
• coupon parking

and the top of page 7


h. Parking spaces for motorbikes will continue to be provided in
appropriate location

our vehicles also comply with the councils aims in more efficient transport.Ie less space,less overall fuel and energy consumption(be careful here modern cars can have very good consumption figures and carry 4 people,but of course ussually dont carry more than 1)
I think we need to temper our approach somewhat.There is NOTHING in this policy to suggest any changes for us.
I read the policy very quickly,if you think I am incorrect point out the clause in the policy

[James Deuce]

actually having read the policy i dont think there is much here to threaten us.The coucil have undertaken to keep motorycle parking

from table 2

• metered and non-metered short stay parking to
support retail, commercial and other activity


h. Parking spaces for motorbikes will continue to be provided in
appropriate location


I think we need to temper our approach somewhat.There is NOTHING in this policy to suggest any changes for us.


It's currently illegal for motorcycles to use metered parking in WCC jurisdiction.

I can't reiterate that enough. It is unfortunately the result of a previous campaign to oust free parking for motorcycles in the Wellington CBD 20 years ago. It was the flip side of allowing the continued use of free parks. Then, as now there were a lot of people using motorcycles as transport in Wellington and WCC were simply looking to generate revenue from that previously untouched resource. Then motorcycle usage declined markedly almost overnight.

The current Mayor wishes to remove all private transport from central Wellington. Motorcycles are a small minority and there are a couple of simple ways to remove them altogether:

1. Ban them from metered parks - already done.
2. Remove free parking and provide no alternative.

This has been hashed over during the previous debate. In the previous attempt the council ran the car parks and were going to provide parks at the Terrace and Bond St and remove all on street parking for bikes. That was it. I would suggest IF there is a contract with a private organisation both the number of parks and the locations will reduce precipitously, IF the private organisations will take on motorcycle parking. I don't think they will unless they are allowed to charge the same amount for a bike park as they would a car park, which as we know is ridiculous given that you can get between 4 & 6 bikes to the same space a car occupies.

Wilson Parking's main objection is that more than one bike can fit in a car park and how do we know who has paid for it? It's not an issue for casual parking where you present your ticket to pay, is it? However that argument falls on deaf ears.

[Fatt Max]

Have signed on behalf of Fat Bikers Motorcycle Club.

Does that signature count for two by the way..???

[riffer]

Have signed on behalf of Fat Bikers Motorcycle Club.

Does that signature count for two by the way..???


No. The signatures need to come from individuals, not organisations.

[riffer]

... actually having read the policy i dont think there is much here to threaten us.The coucil have undertaken to keep motorycle parking
... I think we need to temper our approach somewhat.There is NOTHING in this policy to suggest any changes for us.

Agreed. However, the policy does not preclude changes outside of the Annual Plan as well. You will note that the recent changes to the Golden Mile have resulted in the loss of approximately 40 motorcycle parks from the city, after promises in the Annual Plan that motorcycle parks would not be lost. Infrastructure Performance to a certain extent runs from within BAU rather than the Plan.

It's been my experience that while Councillors and Mayor may design the Annual Plan, it's extremely difficult to prevent the staff who implement this plan from making their own interpretation of it.

It is good that Council have requested consultation with representatives of the motorcycling community - however this should not be construed as acceptance that we will be listened to.

Our biggest problem seems to be that for whatever reason motorcycle traffic has increased markedly in the last five years and that Wellington City Council has struggled to cope with this increase. They are looking for solutions, and as is to be expected in this stage of the financial year, ideas are being put forward as to how to deal with this, in a cost-neutral for the Council way.

It must also be remembered that this is a cyclical thing - in the 1970s and 1980s motorcycle traffic was a lot greater.

[StoneY]

actually having read the policy i dont think there is much here to threaten us.The coucil have undertaken to keep motorycle parking



I have read the same report Paul however nowhere in it does it state they intend to keep our parking for Motorcycles FREE
It does refer to allowing for parking 'on street where suitable' but I cannot find anywhere it states that the Motorcycle parking will remain free

I wont post up the invite council officers sent us to 'participate in a casual pre consultation discussion' as it would simply cause massive outrage at the way it is worded, the hot headed types would be down at the council office looking for blood

But trust me on this, it clearly states an intent to measure our reaction to paying fee's to park our motorcycles in either an off road situation with parking buildings (read contract charges) or other suitable alternatives , which I again read to mean pay for your space.....or dont bring a motorcycle

Not good either way

[Eyegasm]

Anyhow. That was off-topic. You're still a bunch of tubby whinging scrooges who don't want to pay to take up space in cramped central cities, or sweat a few drops instead of using motor vehicles.

Ok, I'll admit to being a lil tubby and refuse to sweat a few drops to bike to work. But
I am not a scrooge.


2. Wilson Parking have a policy that prevents motorcycles from parking in car parks in their parking buildings.

Tournament Parking have no clear policy, but I used to have trouble from time to time when I parked my bike in my personal permanent park provided by work. I had a bit of comedy watching some idiot trying to affix a wheel clamp to my bike.

Tournament parking is quite good on motorcycle parking (unsure on casual parking)
I use Tournament Parking and pay $50 a month for 24 hour access.

That is the reason I signed the petition, I do not want more motorcycles clogging up my parking area. Currently have about 3 meters of space and only 2 motorcycles park there. Heaps of room.

[Jon Visser]

Hi all and a happy New Year.

Thank you to all those with nice comments about me. I have read all 10 pages - very interesting. While I am not the person that will be reviewing the council's policy on motorcycle parking within the CBD, I will certainly be involved in the review as I will need to implement whatever the outcome is. Therefore I have just as much vested interest in getting this right, because all I want is for the limited kerbside parking space that we have in our city to be effectively and fairly utilised, with no specific group of users feeling compelled to park illegally because they believe that their particular needs have not been catered for.

I am a little surprised at this rather significant response to an issue that I have been telling you we've been working on (and would come up) since 2009. As per the previous thread on motorcycle parking in Wellington (can someone post a link?) we've dealt with most of the significant motorcycle parking issues in Wellington City, but there were two key areas of concern that KB members had expressed which we have not yet addressed:
- lack of space for casual parking for motorcycles/scooters
- lack of forward thinking in our approach to managing on-road parking for motorcycles/scooters such that we can respond appropriately to changing usage numbers.

I have therefore stated many times that we would be addressing these two issues at some pont in the future, which is now. The first step is to involve key representatives at the very outset of looking at our policies, i.e. BEFORE we propose any changes. Such early involvement was actually requested by KB forum members. We should therefore be commended on listening to what you wanted, and acting on your requests. There is absolutely no proposal at this stage to introduce parking fees for motorcycles/scooters. In considering our future policy, we will need to consider all possible alternatives to address the current problems being experienced by casual parkers, e.g. including free parking, time limited parking and fee-restricted parking. We should not be developing such policies "in a vacuum", hence the invitation for key representatives to meet with us before we make any proposals at all.

Now for a few facts:

* I raised on KB last year that the Mercer Street parking spaces were under review and that the new layout showed a reduced number of spaces. I encouraged you all to put in a submission if you had any concerns about this. As far as I know the council did not receive any objections at all. As a consequence, the changes were made as proposed. If that is not the outcome you wished, why did no-one speak up? If you want to change our minds on an issue, you need to take responsibility and let your views be known. Therefore a great "bravo" on the current e-petition, which does exactly that. I can assure you that such a significant response will deffinitely influence our thinking, without needing to resort to any other types of action. In fact, it would have been even easier just to come and have a chat with us about what we are working on, so that there may not even be any need for any of this "confrontational" approach.

* riffer - not sure why the big aggro towards me when all we are doing is trying to get you guys on-board and include you in our policy development process BEFORE we propose any changes - is that not what you wanted in the first place? If that is going to be your response every time we invite your input into developing our new policies, should we bother with pre-consultation in future or would you rather perpetuate an adversarial approach? Now, you've mentioned a few things about me that are not quite right. I did not specify the exact wording you had to use. I did make a few suggestions. I was the one that alluded to the research, for which we have previously provided links (see the previous thread). However, I doubt everyone will ever agree on these statistics and research outcomes - I expect there's plenty of info out there to support any point of view. Therefore I suggested that rather than making this debate about the virtues of riding motorcycles over horse-drawn carriages etc, we focus on the particular issue that the council is currently going to look at and that is:
- Limited kerbside parking space
- Excess demand from all types of road users (i.e. all types of vehicles and short/long term needs)
- Problems faced by motorcycle/scooter riders wanting to park casually during the day due to motorcycle/scooter riders parking all day, noting that according to our Parking Policy our kerbside space should supporting casual parkers and not commuters.
How the e-petition was ultimately worded was really up to you.

* Bogan - cost of a multi-bay meter (plus roadmarkings & signs etc) is about $12,000 and about $1,000 per year to service. You can do the sums to work out what a break-even fee per hour would be based on typical usage hours, bays having about 6 spaces on average and a reasonable payback period (say a trienium? :-) . I doubt this would be an effective or economic option due to the much cheaper rates offered by parking garages (see below) for all-day parking. Therefore maximum time restrictions would likely need to accompany a fee restriction (as we do for all Pay & Display spaces) and if the desired turnover is achieved through the time restriction then what is the point of introducing the fee?

* James Deuce - Wilsons have confirmed on this forum (can someone post a link?) that ALL their garages are now open to motorcycles to use. All three commercial operators in Wellington (i.e. Wilsons, Tournament and CarePark) have now opened their garages to riders. Fees are typically $50/month (i.e. $2/day) for motorcycles compared to $200/month for cars, to reflect the reduced space used. The more riders start using these facilities, the more they will imporove, e.g. by introducing locking rings and storage cabinets for helmets & wet weather gear etc. As more car drivers shift to motorcycles, parking garages now need to treat riders as valuable customers or lose business. Therefore they now understand that it is in their best interests to provide better access and facilities for riders (e.g. lighting & security etc). Two parking garages already provide free spaces for riders (for about 20 to 30 motorcycles/scooters) - James Smith & Clifton.

As always, I am happy to listen to all your views, and will do my best to help bring about improvements where I can. Where this is not possible I will try to provide a reasonable explanation.

Kind regards,

Jon Visser
Manager, Infrastructure Performance
Wellington City Council

[Str8 Jacket]

I am a little surprised at this rather significant response to an issue that I have been telling you we've been working on (and would come up) since 2009.

Yes we get 'told' lots of things by the councils and politicians all the time. Maybe its about time people started listening instead of just talking?

[riffer]

Hi Jon,

thanks for coming on board with this discussion.

Firstly, I'm not advocating an adversarial approach in the slightest. In fact, I am delighted that WCC have chosen to consult with us.

If I have offended you I unreservedly apologise. Let's start again.

As far as disruptive action goes, BRONZ rules preclude us from instigating this. However, we do have associations with other motorcycling groups and their rules are different. So it remains a possibility albeit one BRONZ would prefer to avoid.

[Toaster]

Nice work! Sign up everyone!!!

Signed it today. Disgusted to see the council STILL trying this on.

[Nasty]

Signed it today. Disgusted to see the council STILL trying this on.

What are the Council who has nothing out for consultation trying on?????

There is a review that motorcyclists have been asked to participate in - and that is it.

God forbid that they include groups affected in anything - which they have done.

Since no one bothers to respond when Council does consult (read Jons post) - who is at fault - those who ask for responses or those who can't be arsed.

[James Deuce]

* James Deuce - Wilsons have confirmed on this forum (can someone post a link?) that ALL their garages are now open to motorcycles to use. All three commercial operators in Wellington (i.e. Wilsons, Tournament and CarePark) have now opened their garages to riders. Fees are typically $50/month (i.e. $2/day) for motorcycles compared to $200/month for cars, to reflect the reduced space used. The more riders start using these facilities, the more they will imporove, e.g. by introducing locking rings and storage cabinets for helmets & wet weather gear etc. As more car drivers shift to motorcycles, parking garages now need to treat riders as valuable customers or lose business. Therefore they now understand that it is in their best interests to provide better access and facilities for riders (e.g. lighting & security etc). Two parking garages already provide free spaces for riders (for about 20 to 30 motorcycles/scooters) - James Smith & Clifton.



James Smith and Clifton Tce aren't particularly handy. I would suggest that the majority of riders would find Clifton Tce and James Smith somewhat inconvenient as well. If the on street parking is going to go, then there will need to be parks spread over the city. I do not believe for an instant that that will happen due to "economies of scale". There is also no way that I would leave my gear in a parking building. I would suggest that the majority of riders would find Clifton Tce and James Smith somewhat inconvenient as well.

I would also suggest that my experience with private parking companies over the last 10 years has significantly coloured my response to the idea of using them for parking a motorcycle. I've had my bike moved, towed, other people were caught up in the spate of thefts from parking buildings in 2004 to 2006 and I don't see why I should have to apologise for that attitude. I do not trust them and with good reason.

Car drivers are not shifting to bikes. There is no evidence to suggest that and anecdotally there are huge numbers of bikes over 600cc for sale due to punitive ACC levies. Commuter rider numbers will decrease over the Winter 2011 period and will not return to previous levels. If the free parks go then one of the two incentives to commute on a bike is gone. The other is the ability to lanesplit. Riders of over 600cc motorcycles know that they are both less economical and more expensive than a small, modern car. Remove the incentives and there'll be no need to provide parks.

In terms of the "aggro" I would suggest that you just need to look at the track record of local and central Government who "claim" to consult and then continue with their plans in the face of overwhelming public opposition. Quite simply, we EXPECT to be shafted.

[riffer]

Free motorcycle / scooter parking areas are available in central Wellington in locations signposted No Stopping Except for Motorcycles. Most of these areas are designated Monday - Saturday, 8.00am - 6.00pm. If there are additional restrictions or the areas are designated Motorcycle Parking at All Times, the signage will indicate accordingly.

Up to two motorcycles may use a car park controlled by a single-head parking meter (but not mobility spaces unless displaying the appropriate permit). Each rider is individually responsible for ensuring the meter is not expired and not exceeding the maximum time restriction.

Motorcycles may not use pay-and-display spaces as they are unable to securely attach receipts where wardens can easily find them.


Commuters are encouraged to find parking off the public road (eg public and private parking facilities) to free space for other riders to come and go during the day. The Council has arranged for all parking companies to provide good quality space and competitive rates for riders.


Parking on footpaths and road carriageways at the ends of parallel parks or by pedestrian crossings is hazardous for pedestrians and cars and is illegal. Illegally parked motorcycles and scooters will be ticketed.

[bogan]

* Bogan - cost of a multi-bay meter (plus roadmarkings & signs etc) is about $12,000 and about $1,000 per year to service. You can do the sums to work out what a break-even fee per hour would be based on typical usage hours, bays having about 6 spaces on average and a reasonable payback period (say a trienium? :-) . I doubt this would be an effective or economic option due to the much cheaper rates offered by parking garages (see below) for all-day parking. Therefore maximum time restrictions would likely need to accompany a fee restriction (as we do for all Pay & Display spaces) and if the desired turnover is achieved through the time restriction then what is the point of introducing the fee?

Thanks for the response.

In windy welli the paper ticket approach would be most difficult (plenty of wardens struggle to find a rego even when attached), all parks would need to be laid out and given numbers, which either doesn't leave enough room for big bikes, or leaves too much for scoots, so I agree, there's no point introducing a fee.

Do you have figures of what the ratio of bike parking space to car space (on street) is currently?

[James Deuce]

The Council has arranged for all parking companies to provide good quality space and competitive rates for riders



Quite simply, this needs to be in more than 2 locations.

[Clockwork]

The Council has arranged for all parking companies to provide good quality space and competitive rates for riders.


Am I being overly cynical? The consultation process has not yet begun but Council have already made these arrangements for us?

[StoneY]

Hi all and a happy New Year.

Thank you to all those with nice comments about me.


Your welcome Jon I always found you to be approachable amicable and to keep your word, and a happy new year to you as well




Now for a few facts:

* I raised on KB last year that the Mercer Street parking spaces were under review and that the new layout showed a reduced number of spaces. I encouraged you all to put in a submission if you had any concerns about this. As far as I know the council did not receive any objections at all. As a consequence, the changes were made as proposed. If that is not the outcome you wished, why did no-one speak up?


Mercer St
Jon I found no refference to Mercer Street being reduced in avaialble bike spaces by the number it has been, link please? Or re-post that post here in this thread maybe?
Not that I dont believe you but if this was offered to consultation, that offer has been lost in the clutter somewhere in that other thread, maybe a more pointed, seperate thread to notify us of such an invite would have been more effective?
Or even to e-mail me at president@bronzwellington.org.nz ?
Just a thought... because as KB is a forum maybe it is not the best place to invite SERIOUS consultation, and I thank the officer from Council who DID e-mail me via our official channels. Kudos to him!

Why did we miss the Mercer refference?

We were left with the impression from your last lengthy thread here that as long as we kept off the pavements there would be no reduction in Motorcycle Parking spaces in Wellington (right or wrong thats the impression at least we were left with, Mercer street has lost over 40 bike spots where have we been given that space for in return?)
The 500 spaces we HAD were as a reward for being forbidden to use paying kerb spaces according to popular opinion,now we have less!



How the e-petition was ultimately worded was really up to you.


Not the case at all John if this was true your officers who vet the petitions would have put our original wording in it and not tried insisting we are more harmful to the environment, exact wording of the reply is posted two or three pages back

And as to the discrepancies in the research data, even if bikes without CATs burn a bit dirtier, as the motors work far more efficiently and under far leas weight/torque load so burn far less fuel on average per km travelled (with some exceptions of course) so we could keep debating these issues on environment impact till the cows come home......
What upset Riffer (and MOST of us in fact) so much was the statement we cause WORSE congestion with the number of serious crashes we have.... say what???!!!

That’s a load mate, a total load.....we CAN prove that’s bullshit speculation and opinion, we have all the crash data you could want courtesy of Dr Charles Lamb PHD.
The way the response was written back to Riffer, had named you as the source of that statement leaving me to assure my team at BRONZ 'I doubt Jon would have said that in such a way'........

Crashes on Wellingtons roads, cars vs bikes
I have yet to be delayed these last 12 months of daily commuting by a single motorcycle accident... as where as I am delayed weekly (although as I lane split its less of a delay) by cars, people movers, and mostly rubberneckers in regards accident delays... and I do mean weekly, like the Toyota Previa I found on its roof just north of Ngaraunga last week??? 12 teenagers sitting at roadside, 3 fire trucks 2 ambo's and 4 Police Vehicles...funny enough there was no delay for Motorcyclists, cops waved us through the crash scene....cars sat burning fuel and creating emissions for about 30 minutes.... hmmm. Cat converters or not, 300 cars in the Q engines idling as the motorbikes are waved through by Police.... who’s causing environmental harm in that scenario Jon?
Bike crashes are cleared in no time by comparison any mug can see that so please show us PROOF we cause bigger delays and environment damage with ‘frequent serious crashes’
That one very bogus generalisation really pissed us all off mate, far more so than the fuel/C02/emmissions issue could ever do.

Studies on emmissions
Emissions, an issue which as we all know can be argued in either direction, however I take the view of California's authorities...there is not enough bikes or exhaust FROM those bikes on thier highways/roads to cause concern in regards emissions, the fact they reduce flow and parking congestion is enough to compensate any discrepancy....
Other studies from Europe have convinced most large European cities we ARE a benefit, so I will prefer to lean towards them studies of course. :)



As always, I am happy to listen to all your views, and will do my best to help bring about improvements where I can. Where this is not possible I will try to provide a reasonable explanation.

Kind regards,

Jon Visser
Manager, Infrastructure Performance
Wellington City Council

And I for one have been trying to tell people this Jon

I know you're a straight shooter, and I appreciate your honest candour.
But to have expected that last thread to alert us to the need to consult on Mercer st's reduction in parking is not a very good comeback I am sad to say.

Please invite consultation via slightly more formal channels and maybe you'll get a more realistic response, such as the current e-petition we opened.
I am pleased the council officer that invited consultation did take such an approach..


Now you were there at BIKEOI Jon and saw the numbers and support behind the motorcycle issue's we face.
2$ a day may not seem much to you but to add yet another 600$ a year to MY motorcycling budget, when as far as we are concerned there is a lot of useless kerb space being ignored around this city we could use, is just as inflammatory to me and most motorcyclists as the ACC hikes were

We will not be happy to have to take parking contracts, we save your council a LOT of road wear, a lot of space (if all of us riders bring a car for a whole week instead of our bikes you will soon see) and there is so many service lanes, wide footpaths, huge un used sections of paving around (the wee cubbyhole by the old Courtenay Place loo's for example, useless paving and a PERFECT bike park) and Boulcott St (we were NEVER in anyone’s way by Plimmer Steps) that are going to waste...

Melbourne allows bikers footpath parking if no entrance ways, hydrants, shop windows etc are impaired as do many major cities world wide.
We will be pushing for MORE free parking when we come to have the chat my friend, and we look forward to the chance to participate.

Again thank you for coming onto KB to address the concerns of the forum members, BRONZ and allies will see your representatives on the 1st as per invite

Cheers

Brent

PS: Its likely we missed the mercer st headsup as we were going all out to organise BIKEOI at the time your last thread drew to a close Jon. Unfortunate, but re-inforces the need to invite the likes of BRONZ via formal channels www.bronzwellington.org.nz

[Jon Visser]

In windy welli the paper ticket approach would be most difficult.

Do you have figures of what the ratio of bike parking space to car space (on street) is currently?

Easiest meter approach would be what is called a "multibay" meter. Each space is individually marked and numbered and people feed the meter for the space they have parked in. That would be the most practical approach IF one was to consider charging fees...

We have about 3,400 car parking spaces (for about 80,000 cars/day, of which about 40,000 are casual parkers) and about 550 motorcycle spaces (for about 1,100 bikes per day, of which we are not yet sure how many are casual parkers).

[Jon Visser]

Quite simply, this needs to be in more than 2 locations.

There are heaps of locations offering motorcycle parking:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/parking/pdfs/mcycle-parking.pdf
All the blue ones are free public ones. All the coloured ones are private facilities. Like anything, maps get out of date (we have recently added heaps more free motorcycle parks at the railway station and a few other high-demand locations).

See also:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/parking/onstreet/onstreet.html

[bogan]

Easiest meter approach would be what is called a "multibay" meter. Each space is individually marked and numbered and people feed the meter for the space they have parked in. That would be the most practical approach IF one was to consider charging fees...
yeh thats what i outlined, but as stated, this would likely reduce the number of bikes able to park in a given space.

[StoneY]

Like anything, maps get out of date (we have recently added heaps more free motorcycle parks at the railway station and a few other high-demand locations).



The logic of adding them to a Train and Bus transport hub eludes me Jon.
Did anyone suggest we want to park our bikes and get on a bus to make the last 2 k's to the office or something?
Thats really illogical to park Motorcycles at a train station I mean come on..........

[oneofsix]

The logic of adding them to a Train and Bus transport hub eludes me Jon.
Did anyone suggest we want to park our bikes and get on a bus to make the last 2 k's to the office or something?
Thats really illogical to park Motorcycles at a train station I mean come on..........

umm mind boggling, imagine sitting on a train or bus in full bike gear :rockon: especial on a wet day

[Jon Visser]

Why did we miss the Mercer refference?
We were left with the impression from your last lengthy thread here that as long as we kept off the pavements there would be no reduction in Motorcycle Parking spaces in Wellington


I Posted to KB on 21 December 2010 about the Mercer Street changes and a URL link on how to put in a submission:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/106738-Wellington-Parking-They-are-about-to-clamp-down-on-bike-parking/page28

On 22 December RusoR then wrote:
"'Originally Posted by Jon Visser
The following has just been released by WCC. Within all of the proposed changes, the only one affecting motorcycle parks is in Mercer Street. If you have any feedback please direct this towards the project manager whose contact details are included in the attached letter.'

Thanks for pointing this out Jon, a quick squiz at the size of the existing M/C park in Mercer Street versus the size of the proposed M/C park shows a glaring space deficit. Thanks to WCC planning staff for once again considering the needs of motorcyclists in the CBD.
I have no doubt the project management will be hearing about this."

Chocolate Boy and Nasty also posted on the topic (encouraging people to put in a submission). Maybe everyone thought that everyone else would do it? We've received very little correspondence about the changes since they were made and illegal parking hasn't increased in the area so I assume that most of the riders found somewhere else appropriate to park?

We have recently added about 50 additional motorcycle parking spaces throughout the city (yet to be updated on the maps) to compensate (though obviously not at the same location): Railway Station, Featherston St, College St, Victoria/Ghuznee, Stout St, Hunter St, Panama St, Abel Smith St, Jessie St?, Cable St? - I need to review a few of those to confirm whether they have actually gone in yet, but on balance I think that since the start of the thread, facilities in Wellington have improved through a combination of riders expressing their views and the Council listening and responding to those views.

I can guarantee you that one thing is certain: we will always need to review how our parking space is allocated and adjust to meet changes to demand and our streetscape. One thing I have agreed is that some areas on the road that cannot be used by cars can be marked as OK for motorcycles to use (e.g. as we have marked in Featherston and Panama Streets) and if you raise these with me then I can get them considered for approval. In response to all your other comments, these have all already been covered here:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/106738-Wellington-Parking-They-are-about-to-clamp-down-on-bike-parking
so I will not reiterate them. We may just need to differ on some opinions.

Kind regards,

Jon Visser

[StoneY]

I Posted to KB on 21 December 2010 about the Mercer Street changes and a URL link on how to put in a submission:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/106738-Wellington-Parking-They-are-about-to-clamp-down-on-bike-parking/page28

Parking-They-are-about-to-clamp-down-on-bike-parking[/url]
so I will not reiterate them. We may just need to differ on some opinions.

Kind regards,

Jon Visser

Thanks Jon

Huge thread was having trouble trolling back through it with any accuracy

Still stunned by adding parks to the Train Station though.... logic on that one defies me
:-)

BH

[James Deuce]

There are heaps of locations offering motorcycle parking:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/parking/pdfs/mcycle-parking.pdf
All the blue ones are free public ones. All the coloured ones are private facilities. Like anything, maps get out of date (we have recently added heaps more free motorcycle parks at the railway station and a few other high-demand locations).

See also:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/parking/onstreet/onstreet.html

I'm not talking about free parking. I'm talking about privately owned parking buildings only. The ones listed do not match with personal experience, albeit over a year ago.

[davebullet]

We have about 3,400 car parking spaces (for about 80,000 cars/day, of which about 40,000 are casual parkers) and about 550 motorcycle spaces (for about 1,100 bikes per day, of which we are not yet sure how many are casual parkers).

Given the above ratios - I can understand fees and time restrictions for car parking - given the high demand. However - given the ratio of bikes and spaces available, there doesn't seem to be the pressing need to implement time or cost restrictions for motorcycle parking.

[caseye]

Happy New Year and welcome back to KB, Jon.
Many thanks for your rather lengthy but informative post.
From reading it once or twice I deduce that at this stage Welly Council has no particular intention of charging for motorbike parks.We motorcyclists need to stay alert here, though)
I further deduce that where once Private car park operators would not countenance motorcycles being parked in their buildings, that Now they wil.Well done the Welly Council,Jon?)
Further that they are in fact being remarkably restrained in their pricing.(I hear ya Stoney, but parking in these places has always cost but bikes could not! use em, now they can,a good thing!)
Again Welly Council have whether they mean't to or not managed to invite us hairy arsed bikers over for a chat re motorbike parking in their city. Before making any decisions.(This did not and should not preclude them talking with the private parking companies and getting concensus and agreement on bikes NOW being able to park there)
So far Jon, after saying what I have in this thread and then hearing from you, I've got to say that things look decidedly different from my perspective now than they did a couple of days ago.
Good on you for coming into the Lions Den and good luck with keeping your head above water.
I'm not going to go sit on the sidelines, I am a biker and i don't want to pay any more than i/you already have to to simply go about my lawful business.
I sincerely hope that the talks/consultations go well and that agreements can be reached.

[cheshirecat]

There are heaps of locations offering motorcycle parking:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/parking/pdfs/mcycle-parking.pdf
All the blue ones are free public ones. All the coloured ones are private facilities. Like anything, maps get out of date (we have recently added heaps more free motorcycle parks at the railway station and a few other high-demand locations).

See also:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/services/parking/onstreet/onstreet.html
happy New Year to you.

How's your ballroom dancing comming on - you are probably better of on this forum!

[all4A50s]

Sorry Jon, but I'm still suspicious. Until the council members and related workers comes out and says they will not be imposing fees on motorcycle parking and will quit their jobs before doing so I won't be convinced. I have heard similar rhetoric before and seen fees/cut backs still imposed too many times.

The impression I have at present is the council would prefer everyone to catch public transport and such measures are to persuade people to do so. So why not fine all those drivers who drive private cars during to and from work with no one else in the car. From what I see every day I ride to work about 40-60% of cars (which don't have any sign writing on them) only have one person in them. The other problems with catching public transport is 1, the cost it works out to be about $4 more expensive everyday (using concessions) than for me to ride to work and 2, I live in Wainuiomata and work in Wellington. It take's me around 1/2 an hour to ride to work and about 11/2 - 21/2 hours catching public transport to travel the same distance. I also have children and would have to pay for childcare in the morning is I caught public transport (at least and extra $50 -$100 per week). My wife (she works shift work) and I have both looked into it separately to see is it was possible and affordable and the answer if a big no for us.

After the trouble I have had with keeping other road users off the new (timed) motorcycle parks and having to constantly be taking photos of my bike being parked in different places to stop it being ticketed by over zealous parking wardens These same wardens insist on chalking the side of the tyre so no matter how far you drive the chalk mark won't rub off as you drive.

And as to jrandom comments ("You're still a bunch of tubby whinging scrooges who don't want to pay to take up space in cramped central cities, or sweat a few drops instead of using motor vehicles.") Do you run everywhere and/or always pay for parking?

[zahria]

Signed the petition, watching with interest.
I reckon those of us that own cars should visit the CBD, and park up for an hour or so and have a sign to say what we're up to.
Anyway, will wait and see if the talk from the council reps matches the eventual walk.:Police:

[cheshirecat]

Sorry Jon, but I'm still suspicious. Until the council members and related workers comes out and says they will not be imposing fees on motorcycle parking and will quit their jobs before doing so I won't be convinced. I have heard similar rhetoric before and seen fees/cut backs still imposed too many times.

The impression I have at present is the council would prefer everyone to catch public transport and such measures are to persuade people to do so. So why not fine all those drivers who drive private cars during to and from work with no one else in the car. From what I see every day I ride to work about 40-60% of cars (which don't have any sign writing on them) only have one person in them. The other problems with catching public transport is 1, the cost it works out to be about $4 more expensive everyday (using concessions) than for me to ride to work and 2, I live in Wainuiomata and work in Wellington. It take's me around 1/2 an hour to ride to work and about 11/2 - 21/2 hours catching public transport to travel the same distance. I also have children and would have to pay for childcare in the morning is I caught public transport (at least and extra $50 -$100 per week). My wife (she works shift work) and I have both looked into it separately to see is it was possible and affordable and the answer if a big no for us.

After the trouble I have had with keeping other road users off the new (timed) motorcycle parks and having to constantly be taking photos of my bike being parked in different places to stop it being ticketed by over zealous parking wardens These same wardens insist on chalking the side of the tyre so no matter how far you drive the chalk mark won't rub off as you drive.

And as to jrandom comments ("You're still a bunch of tubby whinging scrooges who don't want to pay to take up space in cramped central cities, or sweat a few drops instead of using motor vehicles.") Do you run everywhere and/or always pay for parking?

The bus travel prices are considerably more expensive in Wellingoton than London
"Standard London Bus/Tram Fare is £2.20 per adult
under 16's travel free
£1.30 with Oyster (£4 daily maximum)"
Exchange rate just over 2 to 1 and you can park cheaper as well.

[allycatz]

Signed....blardy council bum wipes

[Nasty]

http://www.wellington.govt.nz/news/display-item.php?id=4281

Statement from the Council Website.

Cheers

[Str8 Jacket]

The bus travel prices are considerably more expensive in Wellingoton than London
"Standard London Bus/Tram Fare is £2.20 per adult
under 16's travel free
£1.30 with Oyster (£4 daily maximum)"
Exchange rate just over 2 to 1 and you can park cheaper as well.

Yep, but ceaper than Aucks!

It costs me (maintenance, WOF, etc included) just a little over $60 a month to ride to work. It costs over $180 to take the train or bus..... :facepalm:

[Scuba_Steve]

http://www.wellington.govt.nz/news/display-item.php?id=4281

Statement from the Council Website.

Cheers

They do make it sound like 'to increase bike parks we have to decrease car parks' which would be a load of shit, so I do hope this is not what they are trying to imply

[cheshirecat]

Yep, but ceaper than Aucks!

It costs me (maintenance, WOF, etc included) just a little over $60 a month to ride to work. It costs over $180 to take the train or bus..... :facepalm:
AND they have to subsidise trains and buses, which makes them look like they are going round in a spiral of increasing costs. No wonder they are desparate for income.

[Bald Eagle]

Yep, but ceaper than Aucks!

It costs me (maintenance, WOF, etc included) just a little over $60 a month to ride to work. It costs over $180 to take the train or bus..... :facepalm:

That's if the transmetro has a winning "You will get there" option for your daily ticket price.:bleh:

[Paul in NZ]

That's if the transmetro has a winning "You will get there" option for your daily ticket price.:bleh:

You mean a 'Will you get there?' lottery ticket....

[riffer]

You mean a 'Will you get there?' lottery ticket....


But hey, what about that scenery?

[StoneY]

But hey, what about that scenery?

Like...the back of that fat chicks head coz there is only standing/crush room left after Naenae?????

[Str8 Jacket]

That's if the transmetro has a winning "You will get there" option for your daily ticket price.:bleh:

Not to mention the fact that I would get soaking wet walking to the train station and while wating for said train. THEN, you get even more wet walking from the train station to work!

I stay drier by riding my bike wearing coduras and riding...

[riffer]

They do make it sound like 'to increase bike parks we have to decrease car parks' which would be a load of shit, so I do hope this is not what they are trying to imply


There is no implication at all. This bit is quite clear. WCC do not official believe that there is any space left in the city which can be converted to bike parks, therefore to create more bike parks they would have to convert car parks.

Here's a suggestion. Why don't we create a new thread? Call it potential new bike parks. there are plenty of areas in Welly city where we could safely and conveniently park motorcycles. How's about people take pics of areas in Wellington City they believe could be converted to bike parks and place them here so that we can present some evidence to Council on February 1?

[caseye]

There is no implication at all. This bit is quite clear. WCC do not official believe that there is any space left in the city which can be converted to bike parks, therefore to create more bike parks they would have to convert car parks.

Here's a suggestion. Why don't we create a new thread? Call it potential new bike parks. there are plenty of areas in Welly city where we could safely and conveniently park motorcycles. How's about people take pics of areas in Wellington City they believe could be converted to bike parks and place them here so that we can present some evidence to Council on February 1?



At Last an idea of note that could become the first positive thing in this thread.
Go forth you Wellyit's and take pics, be sensible, if it can be done without huge expense it could well be done.
Play hard but fair lets see how you go.

[StoneY]

At Last an idea of note that could become the first positive thing in this thread.
Go forth you Wellyit's and take pics, be sensible, if it can be done without huge expense it could well be done.
Play hard but fair lets see how you go.

Someone get the little annex thats got the cute iron fence cordoning off that spot at the western end of Courtenay Place right beside the old (I mean OLD) public loo building

On corner of Taranaki st

I used to park my bikes there when visiting the Holder of the Reigns at her work

:-)
Fit 6 bikes in it no sweat!

[swbarnett]

How's about people take pics of areas in Wellington City they believe could be converted to bike parks and place them here so that we can present some evidence to Council on February 1?
Damn good idea. Be even better if a bike is in the space demonstrating the lack of interference with anything non bike.



Phottshop out the plate though.

[all4A50s]

http://www.wellington.govt.nz/news/display-item.php?id=4281

Statement from the Council Website.

Cheers

So if there is that many bikes how about letting us park off the street, where we used to park.


AND they have to subsidise trains and buses, which makes them look like they are going round in a spiral of increasing costs. No wonder they are desparate for income.

They could earn heaps by fining the private vehicles with only one person in them.


But hey, what about that scenery?

Last time i could see anything due to nodding off it was so hot and the windows being all fogged up.


At Last an idea of note that could become the first positive thing in this thread.
Go forth you Wellyit's and take pics, be sensible, if it can be done without huge expense it could well be done.
Play hard but fair lets see how you go.

Yes easy answer, free, less work for their staff and contracted services and will resolve the parking issue of so many bikes coming in. LET US PARK WHERE WE USED TO.

Does anyone know with the increase in motorcycles coming into town, if there has been and how much of a decrease in other forms of transport being used. If the council are using the figures showing an increase in motorcycles traveling into town surely there must be figures showing decreases in other forms of transportation.

[StoneY]

Does anyone know with the increase in motorcycles coming into town, if there has been and how much of a decrease in other forms of transport being used. If the council are using the figures showing an increase in motorcycles traveling into town surely there must be figures showing decreases in other forms of transportation.

I know from the data I have been recieving from various sources (eg NZTA, MOT etc) that ALL forms of transport are up in usage factors

Trains/busses already at peak capacity (catch a train you'll see) MORE cars and MORTE motorcycles and MORE cyclists accross the board

The population is growing so more people are commuting to and from...
Its the single occupant cars that piss me off....give a mate a ride, share the bloody road

Anyway, who better to identify where a bike can park than bikers?
I like the idea we submit the locations, I do not think council are shirking a responsibility at all this is cooperation IMO

[oneofsix]

I know from the data I have been recieving from various sources (eg NZTA, MOT etc) that ALL forms of transport are up in usage factors

Trains/busses already at peak capacity (catch a train you'll see) MORE cars and MORTE motorcycles and MORE cyclists accross the board

The population is growing so more people are commuting to and from...
Its the single occupant cars that piss me off....give a mate a ride, share the bloody road

Yeah more parking for bikes, they are at least 50% occupied, throw on the bag with the work stuff in and it over 50% :niceone:

[Scuba_Steve]

Hey since this is somewhat to do with the topic, A Spyder in a bike park acceptable??? Cause right now there's one parked in the bike parks outside our building, personally I think it should have a ticket issued 1. because it is more car than bike & 2. because he takes up about 3 bike parks, but what's everyone else's thought???

[bogan]

Hey since this is somewhat to do with the topic, A Spyder in a bike park acceptable??? Cause right now there's one parked in the bike parks outside our building, personally I think it should have a ticket issued 1. because it is more car than bike & 2. because he takes up about 3 bike parks, but what's everyone else's thought???

spyders/trikes are bike too, as far as i know they have motorcycle registration, require a motorcycle license to ride, and you gotta get geared up to ride em too, if you're just protesting about the size, what next, goldwings?

[oneofsix]

Hey since this is somewhat to do with the topic, A Spyder in a bike park acceptable??? Cause right now there's one parked in the bike parks outside our building, personally I think it should have a ticket issued 1. because it is more car than bike & 2. because he takes up about 3 bike parks, but what's everyone else's thought???

What are they registered as? I know they are advertised as "ride with a car license" so I would presume they register as a car?

[Scuba_Steve]

spyders/trikes are bike too, as far as i know they have motorcycle registration, require a motorcycle license to ride, and you gotta get geared up to ride em too, if you're just protesting about the size, what next, goldwings?

No they are ridden on car licences but I do think you need a helmet, guess the real question is what they are Reg under I have a feeling that might actually be car too

[oneofsix]

No they are ridden on car licences but I do think you need a helmet, guess the real question is what they are Reg under I have a feeling that might actually be car too

don't be lazy, walk across and have a look :bleh:

[bogan]

No they are ridden on car licences but I do think you need a helmet, guess the real question is what they are Reg under I have a feeling that might actually be car too

that seems a bit weird they are car license (then again so are scoots), there were quite a few at the bikeoi, so even if they are registered as cars, they're bikers at heart.

[Scuba_Steve]

well if this helps anyone workout what they are

Vehicle type: Passenger Car/Van
Body style: Motorcycle

Here we go found it
"Registered as a car but you can ride them on a car or a bike licence."

[Bald Eagle]

According to NZTA they are a class of their own
<table class="tbl-content"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" width="225">LE (Motor tri-cycle)</td> <td valign="top" width="413">A motor vehicle that:


has three wheels symmetrically arranged in relation to the longitudinal median axis; and
has a gross vehicle mass not exceeding one tonne; and
either:

has an engine cylinder capacity exceeding 50ml; or
has a maximum speed exceeding 50km/h.


An LE 1 motor vehicle has one wheel at the front and two wheels at the rear. An LE 2 motor vehicle has two wheels at the front and one wheel at the rear.
</td></tr></tbody></table>.

[nudemetalz]

I assume those Piaggio MP3's are the same too,..even though they lean into corners.

[oneofsix]

I assume those Piaggio MP3's are the same too,..even though they lean into corners.

not registered as a bike and take up 2-3 bike parks so should they have to use car parks? But then again if they used a pay n display would the council have them ticketed for breaking the by-law? (getting back to the topic ... slightly).
If you use the suggestion of metered bays what happens to bikes with sidecars, they are bikes so should be allowed to use the bays but will they require to pay for 2? Lucky there aren't that many these days. :devil2:

[riffer]

Trikes, schmikes.

Where's the pics? I'm stuck in Upper Hutt with the kids this week. C'mon guys, let's see some pics!

[StoneY]

spyders/trikes are bike too, as far as i know they have motorcycle registration, require a motorcycle license to ride, and you gotta get geared up to ride em too, if you're just protesting about the size, what next, goldwings?

Wrong, sorry to say

You can operate a Spyder on a Learners Car License mate but NOT on a Motorcycle Learners license (has to be full 6 for spyder)
This is all detailed in the Red Baron CAN AM day events registration doco's

I am of the opinion Trikes and Spyders should be in car spaces, sorry but they take up a Cars Space and stop 3 bikes uising the bike park

EDIT:
Correction

From the DEALER himself
CAN be registered as a CAR or as a BIKE
That one is registered as a CAR at time it was sold (wont name my source...you all know who he is anyway lol)

Way he is parked today would allow 3 scooters or 2 big bikes

IMO, as he is registered as a CAR he sould be using CAR spaces
Just MY opnion tho

And FULL car or FULL motorcycle license requires, no R or L classases allowed to operate a Spyser (last years infor for Can Am day was wrong and has been corrected)

[caseye]

Right thats it. Burn the bloody semi cage.
LOL na but I too think that if registered as a car and takes up as much space as a car it should be parked in a CAR Park, not taking up room on a bike stand.
Same would apply if it's registered as a bike for me , anyway.Size makes em somnething other than a bike.

[davereid]

From the DEALER himself
CAN be registered as a CAR or as a BIKE
That one is registered as a CAR at time it was sold (wont name my source...you all know who he is anyway lol)



Spyders are legally cars, and are complied as cars. So, its a car.

[Gremlin]

if you're just protesting about the size, what next, goldwings?
:eek: Sizest bugger. Still, when I pop down with full luggage on the bike, I haven't found a bike space big enough to park the bike in yet :weep:

[crazyhorse]

I've never taken my bike into wellington - but I supported the petition for you guys :niceone:

[davereid]

I've never taken my bike into wellington - but I supported the petition for you guys :niceone:

Good on you.

Its not really just about Wellington.

It seems to be about the idea that existing forms of environmentally sound transport like motorcycles are to be taxed out of the city to ensure plenty of space for electric and other (actually not if you do the math) environmentally sound transport.

I mean how can you install ratepayer funded charging stations for electric cars if the city ALREADY has perfectly sound, cheap motorcycles cluttering up all the decent spots?

And these diseases have a habit of spreading.

Council officers take their fat arses and tiny brains to conferences, and get pissed.

Back at the first meeting of the next week, when the boss says "how did the conference go" they vaguely remember drunkenly chatting about motorcycles or dogs, or skateboards, and thus produce the "ban-tax-review-charge for it" list as a defence system.

At least, thats what I did when I worked there.

So it soon arrives as an idea in your town.

[crazyhorse]

Good on you.

Its not really just about Wellington..................So it soon arrives as an idea in your town.

I live in HB ......... we don't even have real public transport. If you call a bus that runs on the hour (between Havelock North and Hastings) - but when its lunch time, they stop for two hours! I hardly call that public transport and encouraging people not to take their cars.

And then there's the railway - :rofl: what railway! it doesn't even run between Napier and Hastings anymore.

Nope! I think it'll be a long time coming for motorcycles in HB. And besides, you only have to walk a few blocks from town and there is free parking - you just gotta be prepared to walk a few blocks - which alot of HB folk seem to be too lazy to do. :msn-wink:

[cheshirecat]

This comment on a post in a UK forum re our petition. i think he's been in a few Westminster bike protests.
Question: how can we "hit the council in the pocket"?

Start on your legal fund now if you haven't already.
Take action directed at hitting the council in the pocket, i.e. help other road users to avoid being charged or fined.
Find allies where you can (e.g. commercial drivers) but don't waste your time trying to get general road users on your side.
Don't protest in a way that pisses off other road users - they'll turn on you rather than on the Council.

Best of luck with that.

[all4A50s]

I know from the data I have been recieving from various sources (eg NZTA, MOT etc) that ALL forms of transport are up in usage factors

Trains/busses already at peak capacity (catch a train you'll see) MORE cars and MORTE motorcycles and MORE cyclists accross the board

The population is growing so more people are commuting to and from...
Its the single occupant cars that piss me off....give a mate a ride, share the bloody road

Anyway, who better to identify where a bike can park than bikers?
I like the idea we submit the locations, I do not think council are shirking a responsibility at all this is cooperation IMO

I've said it before, I'll say it again.
Fine the private cars with only one person in them. I think $10 per trip to the city centre for such cars. It may not be popular, they'll probably be voted out of office but they will make a shit load and will cut down in the amount of traffic.

[BMWST?]

The logic of adding them to a Train and Bus transport hub eludes me Jon.
Did anyone suggest we want to park our bikes and get on a bus to make the last 2 k's to the office or something?
Thats really illogical to park Motorcycles at a train station I mean come on..........

...perhaps a scooter rider lives in welly and works in petone and(wisely imho) decides to train from welly to petone and scotter from island bay to the station....