Is 250cc big enough?

[dw120]

Hi just stumbled upon this site and i have found it very inforitive

Awhile back I was told by a friend with a xr400 that dont bother takeing the 250 adventure riding as you will never keep up . I am familier with shingle roads as Ive been through the motu rd a couple of time and other back country road , great fun .

What I would like to know is what persentage of 250s 400 650 etc go on these rides like the MMMMM

thanks for your replies

[Eddieb]

DR Girl rode her DR200 on last years MMMMM and was doing fine.

The bigger rides tend to have regular regrouping points were everyone meets up again so while you may be at the back of the pack you won't get left behind. On faster roads with a group of larger bikes you may find yourself riding alone for a little while but I still get that on the 950, on some rides I'm faster than the slow guys but slower than the fast guys so end up on my own in the middle.

Also just because some riders are on much bigger bikes it doesn't necessarily(sp) mean they ride them any faster than you can go on your 250.

Bring your 250, when the going gets tight you can laugh at the bigger bikes when they get stuck or just have to go really slow and you can ride right past them, it goes both ways.

[dino3310]

welcome dw120, ya friends full of it, yeah sure when we get to the open stuff the big boys will fly but there always at the next intersection, theres a few 250s riders on here. you just ride what your comfortable with.... just hook up on some of the rides on here you'l see:msn-wink:
if ya bike can do the speed limit then no worries

[Rosie]

I think it depends on the kind of people you are riding with. On a lot of the rides organised here everyone tends to regroup fairly regularly, so slower people don't end up being left behind. And on sections of highway, where the little bikes are at a disadvantage, a lot of people will cruise at 105-110, so I can often keep up. I have no hope of keeping up on the gravel, but that is more to do with rider skill, rather than the top speed of the bike. Although I have heard rumours of wide open stretches of gravel where others have reached speeds my 250 isn't physically capable of.

[ADVGD]

The answer to that question will be heavily influenced by the type of riding you do, how big/tall you are, the group you ride with, how much gear you take on each of your trips, etc.

I currently ride a DRZ250 for multi-day adventure riding/fishing trips and have an absolute blast on it, but, I will be upgrading to a bigger capacity bike in a few weeks when the painful period of waiting for my full licence ends. In most off road settings a 250cc is a fantastic bike, but open gravel stretches and open road riding can be a pain in the arse especially if you're riding with guys on bigger bikes or a howling wind decides to hit you head on. Some other things to consider are...

Adventure riding accessories are often slim or not available at all for 250cc bikes meaning a lot of fabrication work may be required, this can wind up being quite costly. My custom fabricated panniers (http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/37/drz250-panniers.php)were over $3,400 after numerous tweaks to get them right. Take the DR650 as a comparison, you are spoilt for choice for aftermarket parts at good prices

Sourcing large range tanks can also be an issue for some models, the DRZ250 as an example doesn't have anything available and a different model tank has to be fabricated (http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/44/drz-250-large-tank.php)

When loaded up with a few days gear the standard 250cc suspension is pushed to the limit

Most 250cc gearboxes don't lend themselves nicely to both on and off road use, the motor is not powerful enough to support tall ratios in the gearbox resulting in a shallow cluster. Often times this means selecting sprockets favouring either on road or off road, rarely is there a happy compromise in the middle so performance at one end is often negatively and noticeably affected

If you come across a fun looking section that screams at you to ride fast and aggressive, the 250 just ain't gonna be as much fun as a more powerful bike no matter how good a rider you are, especially if you're carrying a bit of gear

And finally, this is the deal breaker for me, although many people use 250cc bikes for adventure riding, hard and heavy use in this environment will dramatically reduce its life expectancy. I am two days away from picking up my DRZ250 after having a full gearbox rebuild costing around $3,500. After 24,000km predominantly ridden hard and fully laden on a bike purchased brand new only 18 months ago, I have managed to successfully destroy the gearbox :blink: This simply would not happen on a DR650 with the same riding thrown at it, the 250 engine is not designed to take the abuse when fully laden with gear that a larger capacity bike can. This may be an important factor if you ride hard

For trail riding or short one nighter trips a 250cc bike can be a great machine, however for adventure riding in the true sense, I personally wouldn't recommend anything smaller than 400cc as bare minimum.

The above is my personal opinion based on first hand experience, take onboard as you please, but one thing I am confident about is that if you get a big cc bike from the get go, you won't be disappointed :niceone:

[cooneyr]

You cained my arse off road down on the second Dusty Pre run when I was on the 950 so I'll reitterate the small is good for off and big is better for on road sentiment. In saying this though its not just about CC's but more a factor of weight and suspension as this relates to ability to carry speed. Power then only becomes a factor when doing highway stretches into a head wind or uphill. There is a reason why WR250R's are popular at the moment as they have good suspenders and good power (for their cc's) in a reliable package.


.....I have managed to successfully destroy the gearbox :blink: This simply would not happen on a DR650 with the same riding thrown at it....

Re your comment above - you are aware of the DR650 3rd gear issue aren't you? Talk to Transalper if you want some first hand evidence. Nordieboy, also a sufferer, has a thread somewhere with a growing list of those who have suffered.

Cheers R

[cromagnon]

.....

Agree with everything you said really, i have ridden a dr250 for just over 12 months (18,000km) now with quite a few 2-3 day trips fully loaded (tent, sleeping bag, food, extra fuel etc etc). A 250 really isnt designed to carry this load for extended periods of time. Luckily I havent had any major failures such as ADVGD yet (:facepalm: jinxed). The major limitations of a 250 adventures are hills and wind onroad and higher speed straights on gravel (stability/speed on straights is improved when fully loaded but cornering is weakened due to the usually higher centre of gravity and weight being taken off the front wheel due to the back of the bike being loaded with gear). So to sum it up, if you are doing one day trips mostly then a 250 is fine, anything longer then a bigger cc bike has its advantages. I will be moving up the cc range once I do a DDC and get my full licence also.

[ADVGD]

Re your comment above - you are aware of the DR650 3rd gear issue aren't you?

Oi, stop picking holes in my post :bleh: yeah maybe not the best example when referring to gearboxes considering their prior 3rd gear issues, but to the best of my knowledge that issue was rectified in models 2006 onwards and the gearboxes are as tough as tanks

[NordieBoy]

but to the best of my knowledge that issue was rectified in models 2006 onwards and the gearboxes are as tough as tanks

There's been a couple newer ones die but not as many. Better but not perfect.

Just seen a Freewind that's dropped 3rd (LucasM on AdvRider).

[NordieBoy]

Have a look at the average speeds of adventure rides.

Usually in the 40-60kph range if there's no multi hour road liaisons.

[Waihou Thumper]

There is a Honda Tornado XR250 competing and doing very well.
Finished all of the stages and is lying 78th overall. This is also the first Dakar by him, by the looks of it...
Mind you, something of that size is probably perfect for those monster dunes they had to go over and down and around etc...:eek:

[dino3310]

There is a Honda Tornado XR250 competing and doing very well.
Finished all of the stages and is lying 78th overall. This is also the first Dakar by him, by the looks of it...
Mind you, something of that size is probably perfect for those monster dunes they had to go over and down and around etc...:eek:


i wouldnt expect an XR to do other wise :bleh: when he gets to the finish he will turn around and do the course in reverse:msn-wink:

[waynzz7]

I have a DRZ400 which I purchased to get into adventure riding, trail rides etc..I considered a few 250's when looking, but the boy :devil2: came out in me and went for more power in the 400...The DRZ goes great on the trails with power to burn..but the ride on the road to the offroad stuff can be quite an experience of 'hold on for dear life' and 'f#*k my butt is killing me'

Don't get me wrong it does do the open road speeds ok..it just does it with DRZ finesse lol...Your butt won't thank ya after a 100k plus ride...So if I was to do it all again and adventure riding was my main aim..I would go for at least a 650 with some wind protection..and a comfy seat that accomodates more of my ample plumpness...I am doing mainly trail riding now which the DRZ works well at...

[NordieBoy]

i wouldnt expect an XR to do other wise :bleh: when he gets to the finish he will turn around and do the course in reverse:msn-wink:

XR's have reverse?

Cool.

[Bliksem]

Things I hated:
1. Small fuel tank
2. Lack of power on the open road
3. Hard seat
4. Dangerous to overtake anything doing more than 80ks/h
5. Storage - there isn't any, except DIY stuff and bungee cords
6. No wind/rain protection
7. Not suited for taking the missus any further than the corner dairy

[dino3310]

XR's have reverse?

Cool.

i was waiting for that:bleh:

[Crim]

Things I hated:
7. Not suited for taking the missus any further than the corner dairy

Is this not in the plus column???????????

[dino3310]

Is this not in the plus column???????????

it is on mine:msn-wink:

[888]

I've done almost 800k's on my Yamaha TTR250 and it rocks- I get near on 180K on the 10 litre tank, and will set up the pack rack with a 5 litre backup tank. Lightweight, nails the shingle- and it cruises happily at 110kph. I wouldn't want anything heavier for my style of riding.

[dino3310]

18kms a litre :eek: i thought it would be in the 20s like 22kms a litre

[cromagnon]

18kms a litre :eek: i thought it would be in the 20s like 22kms a litre

Depends if that is to reserve or dry tank? My 9.5L tank goes to reserve about 180km.

[White trash]

WR250R

Brought one home to try out tonight/ Granted I'm not much of an ADV rider but it's quite happy on the open road, light enough and with good suspension to enable some pretty tight and gnarly riding.

Seriously considering getting one to get into the sport further.

[JATZ]

WR250R

Brought one home to try out tonight/ Granted I'm not much of an ADV rider but it's quite happy on the open road, light enough and with good suspension to enable some pretty tight and gnarly riding.

Seriously considering getting one to get into the sport further.

Aparently, quite a popular bike with the guys who do the yamaha safaris. If only they brought out a 450R.

[cooneyr]

Aparently, quite a popular bike with the guys who do the yamaha safaris. If only they brought out a 450R.

I learnt something the other day from WW. The 250 is basically one lung from a R1. It ain't a tweaked 250F. Chances of a 450R are probably not that good then. Though a parallel twin 500 in a 450F chassis would be cool.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

I learnt something the other day from WW. The 250 is basically one lung from a R1. It ain't a tweaked 250F. Chances of a 450R are probably not that good then. Though a parallel twin 500 in a 450F chassis would be cool.

Cheers R

Yep. That's why the insanely long service intervals.
A bit low on power stock, but very easy to un-cork.

[Woodman]

slightly off topic but it was drifting that way, and who keeps on topic here anyway, but what sort of k's would a WR450 get before needing a major rebuild. Think mainly transit road miles , gravel bashing , trail riding and possibly the odd event.

anyone got one set up for adventure / dual purpose riding ?

[cooneyr]

slightly off topic but it was drifting that way, and who keeps on topic here anyway, but what sort of k's would a WR450 get before needing a major rebuild. Think mainly transit road miles , gravel bashing , trail riding and possibly the odd event.

anyone got one set up for adventure / dual purpose riding ?

:Offtopic::whocares: EXC's have been doing 40k km (900hrs) with only good routine service (and possibly changing inlet valves). Only thing is you don't want to thrash them (high rpm) like you would on a beach race all the time. Its the high rpm that does them in. Being a 6 speed helps (WR's aren't) :msn-wink: Go on drink the Orange coolaid.

P.S. This is where I'm heading when the 950 sells - 450 or 525 ESC 05 to 07. Acerbis 25l tank, seat and suspension. Just got to sell the bloody 950!

[bart]

slightly off topic but it was drifting that way, and who keeps on topic here anyway, but what sort of k's would a WR450 get before needing a major rebuild. Think mainly transit road miles , gravel bashing , trail riding and possibly the odd event.

anyone got one set up for adventure / dual purpose riding ?

MarkS was thrashing around a WR450 before he went to the KLR. Now the WR is offroad only. Ask him.

[White trash]

:Offtopic::whocares: EXC's have been doing 40k km (900hrs) with only good routine service (and possibly changing inlet valves). Only thing is you don't want to thrash them (high rpm) like you would on a beach race all the time. Its the high rpm that does them in. Being a 6 speed helps (WR's aren't) :msn-wink: Go on drink the Orange coolaid.

P.S. This is where I'm heading when the 950 sells - 450 or 525 ESC 05 to 07. Acerbis 25l tank, seat and suspension. Just got to sell the bloody 950!

Yeah I'm loving the idea of a 450 EXC too but being a total ADV noob, am a bit worried that the extra grunt may be detrimental to my health when the going gets tight. The WR seems pretty easy to handle due to it's tame power delivery.

While on the 450 route, Yamaha had previously sold the WR450 road legal here but they sold in such pathetic numbers that it's discontinued.

[pipe]

For the WR250R if you want more power later you can remove the emission gear(3 Systems) and add a FMF Q4 exhaust and the EFI programmer. Yamaha also do a 290 kit for the WR250R that the Yanks seem to like.

[warewolf]

what sort of k's would a WR450 get before needing a major rebuild. Think mainly transit road miles , gravel bashing , trail riding and possibly the odd event.

anyone got one set up for adventure / dual purpose riding ?Yamaha WR450F Adventure Bike (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=537684)

[warewolf]

Yeah I'm loving the idea of a 450 EXC too but being a total ADV noob, am a bit worried that the extra grunt may be detrimental to my health when the going gets tight. The WR seems pretty easy to handle due to it's tame power delivery.Smaller lighter more manageable bike is always a bonus when starting out. When the WR250F was first released, I was in that market so talked to every rider I saw. Almost all of them had traded down from a wr450F and found they could go hard all day on the 250, get up it big time for big grins, generally thrash it about, and many thought they were faster on it; whereas the 450 beat them up in short order.


While on the 450 route, Yamaha had previously sold the WR450 road legal here but they sold in such pathetic numbers that it's discontinued.I'm surprised, I see lots of road legal ones, but then again I'm kinda looking from within this niche. I 'spose I also see shitloads unregistered at trail rides, too. There no competition so that's no hardship. I was told by a Honda dealer recently that the CRF-X isn't road legal here because "the police don't like them because they can't catch them, so they had the LTSA ban them" quote-unquote.

NZ is a different market anyway. Most enduro bikes have all the road legal bits stripped off and get used off road only. NZ is following the yanks with their MXer with wide-range gearbox and lights, rather than full-on road-legal enduro bikes. To that end, recently we've seen the Husky TXC (? not sure) and the XC-W KTMs coming in as well as the EXC... which I reckon is the death knell for the EXC. Is different to Aussie where you can't ride in a forest unless you are road legal - enduros are really big sellers, often taking half the top-ten spots for overall sales.