Lap belts for quads! Coroner Smith needs ta get a life!

[RiderInBlack]

From TV One News 6pm 11/1/11 (http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/calls-seatbelts-quad-bikes-rejected-ministry-3995877/video)

Wellington Coroner Ian Smith has sent a report to Transport Minister Stephen Joyce and Labour Minister Kate Wilkinson which calls for helmets, lap belts and roll bars to be made compulsory on quad bikes. (http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/calls-seatbelts-quad-bikes-rejected-ministry-3995877)

Glad ta see Minister of Labour Wilkinson told him where ta go with his report. Are all Coroners as stupid as Smith? He really needs ta get a life. Has he forgotten that Roll Bars were taken off Quads not to long ago because they were causing more injuries than they were saving! As for Lap Belts on Quads, is he stark raving mad? Jumping/falling free off a Quad has saved me more than once. A Lap Belt would have at least seen me in Hospital, if not worse. Where the fu*k is he getting his ideas from?
Next thing he'll come up with is Lap Belts and Roll cages for Bikes! That will definitely help when I hit a WRB put in the centre the road ta save my life:doh:

[Ronin]

I saw that last night and it did occure to me that Mr Smith has never ridden a quad around a farm.

[mattian]

with the addition of roll cages

[Jay GTI]

Yep he's an idiot alright. Quads, as indeed are many things, are inherently dangerous, but ill-thought out legislation will not stop people dying or being injured on them.

Just an idea, we could just try educating people to the level of a basic understanding of the laws of physics and beyond that just accept that some things in life carry a reasonable amount of risk. We can't protect everyone from everything.

[george formby]

Yep he's an idiot alright. Quads, as indeed are many things, are inherently dangerous, but ill-thought out legislation will not stop people dying or being injured on them.

Just an idea, we could just try educating people to the level of a basic understanding of the laws of physics and beyond that just accept that some things in life carry a reasonable amount of risk. We can't protect everyone from everything.

Eh? Who do I blame if i hurt myself then, eh? eh?

[flyingcr250]

can you imagine trying to get a cocky to wear a seat belt on his quad???:weird:
or even trying to get him to pay for a roll cage. whos going to police this?? i smell another tax comming on,
i think something as simple as wearing a mx helmet would stop some of the deaths on quads maybe??
its nanny state gone mad!!!!

[rustic101]

Enforcement of seat belts on a farm would near be impossible. I believe wearing a helmet is of value though, no, is common sense. What concerned me more was the number of clowns on one newspaper poll who voted it as a great idea - Clearly none of these idiots have stepped onto a farm let alone stepped in the proverbial lol

[Edbear]

I thought the roll-bar idea had some merit if a simple single bar that would prevent the quad rolling right over, but what type of injuries were they causing? Lap belts are just plain stupid on any type of bike and I doubt helmets are that necessary either... how many head injuries are caused through quad bike accidents since most are roll-over accidents that crush the rider?

[mattian]

I agree that its a mistake to regulate the hell out of driving vehicles on your own private land, however, there have been far too many preventable deaths on quad bikes and there really needs to be something done about it. It just keeps on happening. I wish I had a more consrtuctive comment but, I honestly don't know what the answer is.

[Jay GTI]

Eh? Who do I blame if i hurt myself then, eh? eh?

the idiot who did it, of course...:msn-wink:

Good article in the Herald today (it stood out, will be one of the three they'll print this year), by Donald Aubrey. He talked of installing tilt meters with warning sounds, which is about as sensible as you'll get as far as retro-fitted safety devices for quad bikes go. He also talked of putting things into perspective, considerably more accidents happen at home than on the farm... he also mentioned farm-related quad bike accident numbers pale in comparison to recreational quad bike accidents... having claimed my fair share of ACC payouts due to recreational dirt bike accidents, no amount of safety legislation will stop the human nature of risk-taking in the name of fun.

[Kickaha]

The lap belts would only be a worth having if there was a roll bar/cage or you're just as likely to be killed by the bar crushing you

The reality is no one would wear them anyway

[george formby]

the idiot who did it, of course...:msn-wink:

Good article in the Herald today (it stood out, will be one of the three they'll print this year), by Donald Aubrey. He talked of installing tilt meters with warning sounds, which is about as sensible as you'll get as far as retro-fitted safety devices for quad bikes go. He also talked of putting things into perspective, considerably more accidents happen at home than on the farm... he also mentioned farm-related quad bike accident numbers pale in comparison to recreational quad bike accidents... having claimed my fair share of ACC payouts due to recreational dirt bike accidents, no amount of safety legislation will stop the human nature of risk-taking in the name of fun.

Now that does make a lot of sense.

What? Hearing impaired you say? Putting an annoying flashing light on too then.

Blind? Visually challenged & hearing impaired riders may require a tap on the head with a rubber hammer.

It's all moot anyway. All the farmers I knew in the UK (cheviots) rode TY 175's & had a horse for when it snowed.

[steve_t]

Agree that it's stupid and nobody would wear them. I know a few cockies that traverse crazy steep banks. It freaks me out just watching them! But I think they all know that if the bike starts tipping over sideways, you have to turn the bike to go down the hill. The natural reaction is to turn the bike up the hill and it just makes the bike flip over faster. Quad bikes are fricken heavy!

[EXCDirt]

Go with the cigarette package legislation
Why not just put stickers on the tank/ bar/ somewhere on the Quad that if you ride like a dick your brains will be crushed out of your ears...... With added photo like the lungs one? Maybe black and white so it's not as gory?

[onearmedbandit]

Was talking to an ex-employee of a Honda dealership (they who sell the most quads in NZ) and he told us present that when noise was made a few years back about making roll-bars on quads mandatory Honda US said it was not possible to safely attach a roll over bar to their quads. Now of course this is America, where litigation would probably be their main concern, but essentially it was implied that they would not supply quads to our market if it was enforced.

How much truth it holds, who knows. But if you think about it, none of their quads are designed to fit a roll over bar and to do so from factory for such a small market would not really be worth their while.

[4stroke]

most deaths on farm bikes dont come from head injurys, usually from crushed lungs and being pinnned under neath.
roll bar on the back is the most dangerous as it gets hooked on trees etc and flips the bike on its arse, tho it makes it easier to wash as they sit on the roll frame and wash underneath.
i dont wear a helmet on the farm, and most likly never will, its hard enough getting a mx helmet to fit let alone a ag helmet.
neather would i wear a lap belt, could you imagine when opening and shutting gates when doing irrigation, 15 gates to open and close twice a day.

and do you realise that the number of quad accedents include racing quads and beach goes (fishing and recreational) so i found out from a guy whos trying to sort it out.

the majority of the problems come from not concentrating and doing stupid fkn things.

[RiderInBlack]

Go with the cigarette package legislation
Why not just put stickers on the tank/ bar/ somewhere on the Quad that if you ride like a dick your brains will be crushed out of your ears...... With added photo like the lungs one? Maybe black and white so it's not as gory?Already Idiot Labels on the farm Quads (and the Tractors) to stop American Idiots (Love that Green Day Song) from suing the Manufacturers. Not that Joe Dirt Riders can read, or if they can, gives a shit about the labels. Doesn't work with the smokers ether.
The roll bars were stopping the Quad from rolling off the rider, trapping them under the Quad. At least without the roll bars, the thing would roll off ya.
One thing I really hate seeing on the Farms is Farmer Joe with all his kids on the Quad, with some in front of the handle bars, whipping down the road:crazy:

[D3ALN]

Dont see anything wrong with quads as they are. nothing wrong with carrying a couple of people on if your not hooning around. People just need to learn what angles are safe on hills and be sensible

[Winston001]

Yep he's an idiot alright. Quads, as indeed are many things, are inherently dangerous, but ill-thought out legislation will not stop people dying or being injured on them....

We can't protect everyone from everything.

Mr Smith is wrong but not an idiot. He's a Coroner. Dealing with death. Often preventable death. Its his job to point out risks.

Unfortunately he is probably a city dweller with no experience of ATVs. His suggestions are well-intended but not practical. I doubt even a helmet would be effective on low speed 4 wheelers which tend to crush riders rather than throwing them off.

I was particularly unimpressed by the guy interviewed on TV who demonstrated leaning into a turn instead of putting his weight to the outside. It should the complete opposite to riding a 2 wheel motorcycle.

[RiderInBlack]

Mr Smith is wrong but not an idiot. He's a Coroner. Dealing with death. Often preventable death. Its his job to point out risks.No he is an Idiot. Just another clever person saying stupid shit without thinking it though properly before writing an official letter of recommendation around it. That makes him the worst kind of Idiot to me, cause some other Idiot would use that letter to make more Stupid laws. Lucky they didn't.
Maybe he needs to think things through more thoroughly so he can see the risks his suggestion pose.

[Jay GTI]

I'm with RIB, just because the man has a job that requires a reasonable amount of study and intellect, does not preclude him from blatant idiocy. It may be his job to highlight risks and try and prevent deaths, but suggesting 'safety measures' that will actually increase the risk of death and injury are not part of his job.

Good intentions or not, he has not thought through his proposals and anyone with a smattering of quad bike experience will look at what he's said and quite rightly surmise that he needs to get out of his office/morgue and actually ride one for a decent length of time on a farm, before telling people who ride one day in and day out, what is safe for them.

Sounds like an idiot to me.

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm with RIB, just because the man has a job that requires a reasonable amount of study and intellect, does not preclude him from blatant idiocy. It may be his job to highlight risks and try and prevent deaths, but suggesting 'safety measures' that will actually increase the risk of death and injury are not part of his job.

Good intentions or not, he has not thought through his proposals and anyone with a smattering of quad bike experience will look at what he's said and quite rightly surmise that he needs to get out of his office/morgue and actually ride one for a decent length of time on a farm, before telling people who ride one day in and day out, what is safe for them.

Sounds like an idiot to me.

exactly, intelligence isn't a blanket covering it is a relative term, so why he might be intelligent at his job, when trying to tell others how to do theirs he's a fucking moron. he might have good intentions but the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" was created for a reason.

[MSTRS]

the majority of the problems come from not concentrating and doing stupid fkn things.

Not limited to quads...

[HenryDorsetCase]

I was particularly unimpressed by the guy interviewed on TV who demonstrated leaning into a turn instead of putting his weight to the outside. It should the complete opposite to riding a 2 wheel motorcycle.

wait, whut?

if you weight the outside wheel doesnt it come up on two wheels? When I used to ride a tiny little kids 4 wheeler we used to do that: it was fantastic fun. but if you fell over it was on the lawn and no injuries.

Also relevant: and hilarious

http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/a6b25661-8120-4da6-8016-f2ea390a78eb.gif

why doesnt it embed?? its got img tags!!! Gah!!

[oneofsix]

At least the Labour Dept seems to be taking a more reasoned approach. Their take is that helmets help, Roll cages are being discussed with manufacturers and across the Tasman but are problematic and lapbelts are dangerous as the rider needs to be able to shift their weight and stand up to properly control the Quad. Pity I can't now find the link :doh:

[evoetr]

I think a lap belt would only do more damage with out a roll cage, you would be stuck under the quad instead of getting thrown away from it when it rolled...

So it sounds like a dumb idea if you ask me... , maybe these people should be getting their ' hoon ' stage out on a mini quad or pit bike before stepping up to a bigger farm quad that will crush them because of the weight of them :niceone:

[Kickaha]

I was particularly unimpressed by the guy interviewed on TV who demonstrated leaning into a turn instead of putting his weight to the outside. It should the complete opposite to riding a 2 wheel motorcycle.

You should be leaning into the turn, either that or the 20 quads I watched at speedway last weekend all had it wrong

Leaning to the outside will just help you roll it over

[steve_t]

I got told to put weight to the outside for slow turns and to the inside for fast turns. Not sure what the weight to the outside is all about though

[idb]

I got told to put weight to the outside for slow turns and to the inside for fast turns. Not sure what the weight to the outside is all about though

I always figured it was so that the extra weight on the outside wheels would help them bite more and stop the bike from sliding.
I suppose that if you are going faster you would lean to the inside to stop it rolling over.

[HenryDorsetCase]

could it be because they dont have a diff, so the two rear wheels must always turn at the same speed, so weighting the outside wheel will allow the inside wheel to spin? Whereas weighting the inside for fast turns is because the whole thing is sliding?

pure speculation: do they have diffs?

[steve_t]

could it be because they dont have a diff, so the two rear wheels must always turn at the same speed, so weighting the outside wheel will allow the inside wheel to spin? Whereas weighting the inside for fast turns is because the whole thing is sliding?

pure speculation: do they have diffs?

There ya go! A quick google says NO DIFF :niceone:

[Winston001]

You should be leaning into the turn, either that or the 20 quads I watched at speedway last weekend all had it wrong

Leaning to the outside will just help you roll it over

Ah - racing - that's quite different. Its like Valentino Rossi sliding his rear wheel through a corner under power - he can do it, but the average road rider cannot and should not.

Try riding an ATV on a paddock as if you were moving stock. If you lean into the turn, the bike slides sideways and isn't under control. Lean outside and the outside wheels grip, thus turning the bike.

Incidentally, when I say lean, its really just a slight weight transfer, nothing like on a motorcycle.

The vast majority of ATVs are farm machines with big fat wheels. If the inside wheels are gripping in a turn, they are fighting the outside wheels which have to move faster but can't if they cannot get any grip.

Recreational ATVs have smaller wheels which will slide and behave differently for an experienced rider. The other benefit of leaning to the outside is it feels a bit scary and makes for a more cautious rider.

[kezzafish]

wholly fuck i'll never get that 5 minutes back

[HenryDorsetCase]

a friend of mine who is an experienced motorbike rider got a polaris quad a few years ago. He is a really good (fast, safe, excellent car control particularly on shingle) driver as well.

He started very cautiously on the quad, soon became proficient, then got to a point where he could power slide the thing at 8o+ kph. Of course he hit a pothole just wrong one day, which flipped the quad. He had no lasting injuries, but the injuries he had (broken hand, dislocated elbow (? I think that was from that) and broken ribs) were bad enough. Plus he was a long way from the hostable where it happened.

Sure, shit happens, but he reckons that it wouldnt have happened on his motorbike, or if it did, it wouldnt have been as bad. Apparently it looked pretty spectacular. Sadly in the days prior to helmet mount cameras for the masses....

[scott411]

when stuff goes wrong on a quad it is much worse, i have rolled a few quads in my time, and had to dive away from having them land on me,

quads and jet ski's give the impression that they are very easy to ride, and people get confidence in them very quickly, which leads to accidents as they do not have the level of control they think they do,

[Daffyd]

could it be because they dont have a diff, so the two rear wheels must always turn at the same speed, so weighting the outside wheel will allow the inside wheel to spin? Whereas weighting the inside for fast turns is because the whole thing is sliding?

pure speculation: do they have diffs?

That is the exact reason.

[Murray]

Coroners the new PC brigade

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10699673&ref=rss

[Reckless]

when stuff goes wrong on a quad it is much worse, i have rolled a few quads in my time, and had to dive away from having them land on me

I'd never have one! Every damn quad accident I have seen they always seem to follow the rider (or should we sat driver??) and roll over them??

I just don't get it as a road biker and a dirt rider?? The skills learnt on a bike are just so much more?
But each to there own not knocking them just don't see as much fun or skill in it?

[Kickaha]

The skills learnt on a bike are just so much more?


I don't see the skill set on a Bike as so much more, I see it as different.

[RiderInBlack]

Coroners the new PC brigade

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10699673&ref=rssYep same Mr Smith. I wonder what he is like at home, or worse behind a wheel. If he had someone walking ahead of him waving a flag, he'd need another one walking ahead of the flag holder, waving a flag to warn on coming traffic that there is a guy on the road waving a flag.

[scott411]

I'd never have one! Every damn quad accident I have seen they always seem to follow the rider (or should we sat driver??) and roll over them??

I just don't get it as a road biker and a dirt rider?? The skills learnt on a bike are just so much more?
But each to there own not knocking them just don't see as much fun or skill in it?

can;t carry enough stuff on a 2 wheeler to mark a trail ride tho, you just need to respect them, esp when you are in big country,

[Mungatoke Mad]

Here we go again bring on the lap belts http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8151922/Coroner-repeats-calls-for-quad-bike-safety
& while were at it ejector seats for helicopters :pinch:

[unstuck]

can;t carry enough stuff on a 2 wheeler to mark a trail ride tho, you just need to respect them, esp when you are in big country,

This here is the one.:2thumbsup

[roogazza]

Here we go again !
Oh Government, please save me !!!!!!

[paturoa]

I'm sure that I read about a horse rider that got killed the other day. Do you think that horses also need lap belts and roll bars?

[scott411]

I'm sure that I read about a horse rider that got killed the other day. Do you think that horses also need lap belts and roll bars?

and don't forget those pesky cyclist, they are dying all over the place, they need more protection,

and swimmers now need life vests to enter the water above 30 cm, to many of them are dying as well,

[jim.cox]

And what about those poor pedestrians - dying on our roads in droves

Compulsary hi-vis, helmets and airbags for them at the very least

[unstuck]

Ban fishing too while your at it, fuckin dangerous that is.:crazy: We need to ban IDIOTS from doing anything, that,ll fix it.:yes: That will give me an excuse to stay home and do nothing.:woohoo::woohoo:

[paturoa]

And posting drivel on the interweb thingie. Surely someone has died of that!

[scott411]

Ban fishing too while your at it, fuckin dangerous that is.:crazy: We need to ban IDIOTS from doing anything, that,ll fix it.:yes: That will give me an excuse to stay home and do nothing.:woohoo::woohoo:

I think this is the issue, we have not been letting enough idiots use the Darwin effect, and they are breeding, dumbing down everything,

[ktm84mxc]

That's it Scott it's GODS form of birth control, same for natural disasters .
There's more injuries caused in the house then by motorsports so ban the house Mr Coroner.

[KTM200/stevo0987]

:oi-grr: you gotta be kidding me..... lol lapbelts will make it worse atleast you can jump off

[Zedder]

I think this is the issue, we have not been letting enough idiots use the Darwin effect, and they are breeding, dumbing down everything,

It's more likely the NZ system of dumbing down everything (OSH, legislation etc) while continually taking ACC levies from the population and trying like hell not to pay out.

The 60 minutes programme about the ACC scam really summed it up well.

[scumdog]

And posting drivel on the interweb thingie. Surely someone has died of that!

People post DRIVEL on the interwebby?

Well goodness me, I never noticed...:whistle:

[Akzle]

thought neck belts were a good idea....

[Zedder]

People post DRIVEL on the interwebby?

Well goodness me, I never noticed...:whistle:

Well goodness me, you never noticed and yet you started the thread titled "Brainless broads babbling bullshit."

[scumdog]

Well goodness me, you never noticed and yet you started the thread titled "Brainless broads babbling bullshit."

Heavens, so THAT'S what 'drivel' is - well what do you call all the crap that's worse than that??:wacko:

[Zedder]

Heavens, so THAT'S what 'drivel' is - well what do you call all the crap that's worse than that??:wacko:

The rest of your post.

[scumdog]

The rest of your post.


WHich one?

I post a lot of crappy posts...

[scumdog]

Well goodness me, you never noticed and yet you started the thread titled "Brainless broads babbling bullshit."

The same one you contributed to - and drove it doen the gutter?...;)

[Zedder]

WHich one?

I post a lot of crappy posts...

At least you're honest.

[Zedder]

The same one you contributed to - and drove it doen the gutter?...;)

You mean the one where 3 members (including me) all called you out for "winding up".

[scumdog]

You mean the one where 3 members (including me) all called you out for "winding up".


Moi?:innocent:

Right, back from a cuppa...now where were we? - oh yeah, 'called you out' you say?

Hmm, never noticed anybody calling me out...

[Zedder]

Moi?:innocent:

Right, back from a cuppa...now where were we? - oh yeah, 'called you out' you say?

Hmm, never noticed anybody calling me out...

Never noticed again, It's getting to be a habit.

Look, to save any more hassles just change "Winding up etc " to "Trolling and writing crappy posts". That should cover it.

[scumdog]

Never noticed again, It's getting to be a habit.

Look, to save any more hassles just change "Winding up etc " to "Trolling and writing crappy posts". That should cover it.

Ooo...and who died and made YOU the judge of posts...?:bleh::motu:

[Zedder]

Ooo...and who died and made YOU the judge of posts...?:bleh::motu:

Well durr, it's a public forum, everyone's a judge. In this particular case though it was me and two others.

[scumdog]

Well durr, it's a public forum, everyone's a judge. In this particular case though it was me and two others.

Oh, so should I be worried??:scratch:













:rofl::killingme:laugh::whistle:

[Zedder]

Oh, so should I be worried??:scratch:






:rofl::killingme:laugh::whistle:

That's completely up to you. Anyway, I'm off for a ride, it's a great day out there SD.

[scumdog]

That's completely up to you. Anyway, I'm off for a ride, it's a great day out there SD.


Likewise.
Got my bike back yesterday!:woohoo:

[Laava]

Make sure to click those seatbelts boys!

[Nova.]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8171829/Roll-bar-rated-to-rescue-quad-bike-crashes :laugh:

[Mungatoke Mad]

For $1595 I think I'd rather have a go at making my own or invest in something to prevent it rolling in the first place http://www.clicdualwheels.co.nz/products/quad-bikes.asp

[scumdog]

Well durr, it's a public forum, everyone's a judge. In this particular case though it was me and two others.


IdolIdleIdyll & DangerousBastard are the other two...right?:bleh::rofl: