Three drinks and you're out...

[riffer]

A plan to almost halve the drink-driving limit could push some drinkers over the edge after just three small glasses of wine.

Notwithstanding the fact most recidivist drink drivers drink way more than the limit already, I think maybe its time we stop messing about with stupid limits and just say NO ALCOHOL and driving/riding.

For experience, I believe even one beer makes a difference to my riding.

What do you all think? Or is it just another attack on our civil liberties?

[Jackrat]

Your on to it mate,why muck about?
I really don,t want to share the road with anybody with any amount of alcohol in their system.
OH, civil libertys,Bugger!!

[Motoracer]

Yea, I wouldn't have a problem with "No alcohol at all" while driving/riding but there was that one question. If there were no limits, medications such as a cough syrup could set off the trigger. Not to mention comming home after dinning on a meal that contained some alcohol. eg wine.

[bluninja]

Would I be OK with ginger beer? :D

[jrandom]

Well, I've been guilty of riding after a beer or two within a couple of hours prior :bash:

And it *does* affect my riding. I don't think it has much to do with civil liberties though. Apart from governmental incompetence, the way it's supposed to work is of course that we, the taxpayers, fund a roading system, and then a majority of us decide (by elected proxy) the minimum requirements any individual has to meet to use the system.

I for one would be happy to stipulate that nobody could use it without an effectively zero blood level of any psychoactive chemicals. Of course in my perfect world that would be a minor footnote under the vastly different licensing and driving ability requirements so I really can't be arsed giving a f*ck one way or the other as things go at the moment.

[riffer]

I understand where you are coming from Motoracer, but my point is - what is the difference between 3 beers and 4 beers?

The point is, alcohol makes you worse behind the wheel. Just one drink can take that 'edge' off and just slows you down enough to make the difference.

Which for me, if I'm piloting 210 kilos and 100 hp down the road, is a bit of a worry.

Cough syrup has quite specific instructions on it - don't drive or operate heavy machinery within x hours of taking this medication - it's BECAUSE of the alcohol they say that.

Those who grew up in the Hutt Valley and were teenagers in the early - mid 80s probably remember what Thursday nights used to be like - I don't know how I survived - drunk racing down Oxford Terrace (Naenae) and hooning down LH carpark.

Only drug I put in my system before I ride now is insulin but I can't help that one.

It still makes me mighty cautious on the road though.

BTW, are there any other insulin-dependent diabetics on KB?

Motoracer said:

Yea, I wouldn't have a problem with "No alcohol at all" while driving/riding but there was that one question. If there were no limits, medications such as a cough syrup could set off the trigger. Not to mention comming home after dinning on a meal that contained some alcohol. eg wine.

 

[750Y]

I have no problem at all with a no alcohol in the system law(or at least a negligible amount possibly remainder from a couple the night before). the laws will continue to be broken but maybe less often & that'll keep everyone safer on the roads. I really worry about riders who ride pissed. I'm doing my bit to keep the roads safe by staying stone cold sober.

[Lou Girardin]

Only one fatal accident last year was attributed to a blood/alcohol level below 80 mcg's and there are, invariably, other factors. Do you guys really want to affect the livelyhood of thousands of people to try to save that one life?
Personally, I've never come close to an accident after having a meal with a couple of wines.
Do you also realise that offenders between 50 and 80 mcg's will receive an instant fine?
More revenue anyone?
Lou

[k14]

That is exactly the reason for doing it. Is there ever anything the pigs do that isnt motivated by money??

I dont really care that it is coming down cause i have never drank and drove nor i ever will. I think it is more to come in line with other countries. We do have a pretty high tolerance compared to other countries.

[James Deuce]

Originally posted by Lou Girardin
Only one fatal accident last year was attributed to a blood/alcohol level below 80 mcg's and there are, invariably, other factors. Do you guys really want to affect the livelyhood of thousands of people to try to save that one life?
Personally, I've never come close to an accident after having a meal with a couple of wines.
Do you also realise that offenders between 50 and 80 mcg's will receive an instant fine?
More revenue anyone?
Lou

Be that as it may, when I was in the Survivors MC, we had an event called the great steinlager experiment. One, and One only stubby of Steinlager was enough to make otherwise competent motorcyclists fall off the "see-saw" that they had ridden a kwaka KH100 over easily before drinking the beer. There were a vast number of other obstacles and "slow" races and all they did was confirm for me that the teeniest amount of alcohol, irrespective of size or gender is enough to impair your mental agility. Simple tasks became irritating and complex ones impossible and all before people had consumed anything that could be regarded as the approaching the current limit.

Alcohol, marijuana, P, ecstasy - they all mess with your brain chemistry. Some people are affected more readily than others and the only way to avoid some hitting their personal limit while being under the "legal" limit is zero tolerance for the use of mind altering substances whilst piloting any vehicle. There are always mitigating circumstances in any Motor Vehicle "Accident" (despite the fact that there is no such thing as an "accident" in regard to vehicles. Someone always did something to cause it, including mechanical failures, single vehicle accidents, and medical events while at the wheel.) so why would it be acceptable to add altered brain chemistry to the list, even if it was "legal" to do so?

[Jackrat]

Errrrrrr,Lou,how does lowering the ac, limit effect anyones livelyhood??.
And in answer to your Question,,Yeah bloody oath!!.
Why should anybody die so somebody can make money??
Would it Make a diffrence if that ONE PERSON was you???

[georgedubyabush]

Originally posted by Jackrat
Errrrrrr,Lou,how does lowering the ac, limit effect anyones livelyhood??.
And in answer to your Question,,Yeah bloody oath!!.
Why should anybody die so somebody can make money??
Would it Make a diffrence if that ONE PERSON was you???

The small country pub, already on the decline...

[Jackrat]

In Australia they have this limit and no pubs are closing.
I was with my brother in a small country pub not long ago,I did notice that a lot of the patrons were not just a bit tippsy,but total pissed.They don,t give a damn now,they won,t next year.
All I know is that I don,t wish to be,THE ONE. :done:

[Nouseforaname]

2 years ago my dad was pulled over and failed a breath test, went back to the cop shop and failed the test again, he wasnt very far over the limit so you know what the cops did... they said "hey mate, your not really the type of person we are trying to target so we are gona let you off" and they gave him a ride home..... can you fuckin believe that?

Believe me..... it is true:gob:

Even though he is my dad, i was so pissed that the cops did that, they should have thrown the book at him for being such a idiot.

:argh:

[matt420]

Originally posted by celticno6
I understand where you are coming from Motoracer, but my point is - what is the difference between 3 beers and 4 beers?

The point is, alcohol makes you worse behind the wheel. Just one drink can take that 'edge' off and just slows you down enough to make the difference.

Which for me, if I'm piloting 210 kilos and 100 hp down the road, is a bit of a worry.

Cough syrup has quite specific instructions on it - don't drive or operate heavy machinery within x hours of taking this medication - it's BECAUSE of the alcohol they say that.

Those who grew up in the Hutt Valley and were teenagers in the early - mid 80s probably remember what Thursday nights used to be like - I don't know how I survived - drunk racing down Oxford Terrace (Naenae) and hooning down LH carpark.

Only drug I put in my system before I ride now is insulin but I can't help that one.

It still makes me mighty cautious on the road though.

BTW, are there any other insulin-dependent diabetics on KB?

Hey Celtic,

Yea Im a insulin-pendent diabetic, since I was 8, Im now 24. Been riding for 3 years. Bit off topic so PM me if you want..

cheers

Matt

:Offtopic:

[matt420]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by celticno6
[B]I understand where you are coming from Motoracer, but my point is - what is the difference between 3 beers and 4 beers?

The point is, alcohol makes you worse behind the wheel. Just one drink can take that 'edge' off and just slows you down enough to make the difference.

Which for me, if I'm piloting 210 kilos and 100 hp down the road, is a bit of a worry.

Cough syrup has quite specific instructions on it - don't drive or operate heavy machinery within x hours of taking this medication - it's BECAUSE of the alcohol they say that.

Those who grew up in the Hutt Valley and were teenagers in the early - mid 80s probably remember what Thursday nights used to be like - I don't know how I survived - drunk racing down Oxford Terrace (Naenae) and hooning down LH carpark.

Only drug I put in my system before I ride now is insulin but I can't help that one.

It still makes me mighty cautious on the road though.

BTW, are there any other insulin-dependent diabetics on KB?

Hey Celtic,

Yea Im a insulin-pendent diabetic, since I was 8, Im now 24. Been riding for 3 years. Bit off topic so PM me if you want..

cheers

Matt

:Offtopic:

[matt420]

Originally posted by matt420
[QUOTE]Originally posted by celticno6
[B]I understand where you are coming from Motoracer, but my point is - what is the difference between 3 beers and 4 beers?

The point is, alcohol makes you worse behind the wheel. Just one drink can take that 'edge' off and just slows you down enough to make the difference.

Which for me, if I'm piloting 210 kilos and 100 hp down the road, is a bit of a worry.

Cough syrup has quite specific instructions on it - don't drive or operate heavy machinery within x hours of taking this medication - it's BECAUSE of the alcohol they say that.

Those who grew up in the Hutt Valley and were teenagers in the early - mid 80s probably remember what Thursday nights used to be like - I don't know how I survived - drunk racing down Oxford Terrace (Naenae) and hooning down LH carpark.

Only drug I put in my system before I ride now is insulin but I can't help that one.

It still makes me mighty cautious on the road though.

BTW, are there any other insulin-dependent diabetics on KB?

Hey Celtic,

Yea Im a insulin-pendent diabetic, since I was 8, Im now 24. Been riding for 3 years. Bit off topic so PM me if you want..

cheers

Matt

:Offtopic:

oops posted twice, must be the insulin aye? :done:

[marty]

or posted 3 times even.....

[curious george]

Originally posted by Lou Girardin
Only one fatal accident last year was attributed to a blood/alcohol level below 80 mcg's and there are, invariably, other factors. Do you guys really want to affect the livelyhood of thousands of people to try to save that one life?Lou


Wherer did that number come from????
I can think of at least a dozen serriously f***ed up people who either died, or we spent all day trying to fix cos of booze.
Come to think of it, I remember two seperate cases a few months back where drunk drivers had killed people. One was considerate and killed himself too, but not before other lives were ended.

It's cheap to be killed on the road, just the box, but surgery , intensive care and rehab afterwards cost the tax payer HEAPS.
It's the young and stupid who drink and drive, (good move lowering the drinking age!),I feel sorry for, and just want to strangle munters who have drunk and killed someone.

Perhaps a zero drinks policy would be easier than "just a couple"?

[Nouseforaname]

I would have to disagree in saying that its the young and stupid who drink and drive, sure young people do it, but i can think of heaps of cases in the last 6 months where middle aged men who i deal with at work have been DIC'd/ or have caused an accident from being boozed.

The last case was a guy who i deal with at work.... he was out at Pukekohe for the V8's, got blind rotten drunk, jumped in his company holden and then did donuts in the car park..... caused thousands of $$$ damage to peoples cars and then was arrested and had his company car impounded.

I have had many mates killed through drink driving related crashes and no matter how many laws or how many checkpoints we set up, i think we as a society have got to come together and stop it. How many times have you seen someone leaving the pub and get into their car, thinking to yaself, wow, that guy really shouldnt be driving?

[Lou Girardin]

Read it again george, I said UNDER 80mcg's.
Lou

[Jackrat]

I was kind,a waiting for that.:niceone:

[curious george]

Originally posted by Lou Girardin
Read it again george, I said UNDER 80mcg's.
Lou

I guessed the point of yours was why punnish everybody for light drinking? And yes, there are always other circumstances involved, poor light, rain, etc. So is this not reason to be in tip-top shape?

I can't remember exactly how much they had to drink, but it wasn't many.
I would guess to be under 80mcg's would be about a couple of drinks to the average bloke?

And where does the blame lie? Because it was raining, and slipped? Or because you were mildly pissed? Perhaps if you were not drunk, you might have thought about stopping distances, or had better reactions? Maybe not too, but it is something YOU can influence.
(I refer to *you* as a collective, not as you Lou!!!!:)


A no drink/drive rule might just be easiest, not having to worry if you are just above or below the limit. I don't think that it would be a popular rule though.......

And where did your numbers come from?? (80mcg) Just hard to believe, thats all....
:)
And in the big picture, there are many other things we should be doing to avoid road carnage rather than just speed and drinking.

Oh, I agree about the revenue collecting, that should be spent on road issues, but it is optional after all...:) :) :)

[scumdog]

That is exactly the reason for doing it. Is there ever anything the pigs do that isnt motivated by money??

I dont really care that it is coming down cause i have never drank and drove nor i ever will. I think it is more to come in line with other countries. We do have a pretty high tolerance compared to other countries.

Yeah right, they're always punishing us by way of fines -money-money-money!! I wish they would get serious and confiscate the bike/car for good and take your licence off you for life - at least then people like you and others would feel happy that they are not just after your money!!!!!!

[wkid_one]

Again - this is the case of the law of diminishing returns. The compliance cost of ZERO Tolerance on drinking would flow through to taxation and petrol etc - for what would be a very little gain.

The difficulty with drink driving offences - is that there is quite often a victim - who irrespective of the punishment may never get back what they lose.

Fine line to police tho, zero tolerance increases costs. The balancing out is at which point the cost of compliance overrides the social benefit expected from it.

[wkid_one]

PS - some people can have an alcohol reading in their blood regardless of whether they have had a drink - overseas studies have proven this - therefore there NEEDS to be a minimum accepted level of alcohol in the blood.

The biggest problem is the NZ psyche - 'go out get drunk', tied in with the other mindset 'own a car when old enuf'

[Lou Girardin]

The numbers were LTSA's. As for the value of saving one life, Transit NZ use that calculation now to justify road improvements, it's called cost/benefit analysis.
Finally, how many days would you not drive after a serious drinking session if we had a zero limit?
Lou