DIY start rollers

[k1w160]

Since fitting the motor in my race bike (Yammy FZR1040) I've been having on-going drama's getting the dam thing started due to the electric starter and mechanism being removed during the motor build, mainly because it removed a significant ammount of reciprocating mass and allowed to motor to spin up quicker without having to lighten the crank.

Over the last year I have been using a friend's 2hp single phase start rollers which weigh a ton, and tend to stall when I let the clutch out.

A few weeks ago I tried a set of rollers at a race meeting built with a 12V car starter - nope stalled these as well, and my poor old friend was reduced to a sweating mass helping me push start the bike - and even then we needed several goes on a slope to get any success.

Well, a few months ago I picked up a 24V Mitsubishi truck starter brand new off TradeMe (the NZ version of Ebay) for $75 and started figuring out an economical way to build my own set of start rollers.

During the last week of work in December I took advantage of the quiet week to drop into the local conveyor component supplier (Richmond Wheel & Castors) and picked up a 1500mm length of conveyor side, some spacers to hold the frame apart, and two 290mm width steel rollers.
Then it was over to the local bearing shop for 5 sprockets, some 1/2" industrial chain, a few assorted bearings etc, plus some other lengths so steel.

I had a gear made for the starter to mesh onto a month or so ago, so it was time to get building.

The Mark 1 version consisted of two roller on the same plane, a 24V 10 amp relay and a foot switch which only activated if you held it down.

I struck a few design challenges with this version:

1. The wheel was touching the starter motor solinoid and not the rear roller.
2. The two 12V batteries wired in series were not activating the relay properly - only a faint click. In my wisdom I by-passed the relay and wired the switch directly to the start motor and pressed the button and yep it worked, however 10 seconds later the 10 amp switch cried enough and the terminals welded themselves together - bugger.

So, for the Mark 2 version I got another length of conveyor side and added a second level, hunted down a automotive 24V 30 amp relay and got the auto electrician to do me a wiring diagram, and with the addition of some heavy gauge wire, new connectors and a new switch - SUCCESS.

The rollers spin the motor over easily in 4th gear and the ol' girl fired up immediatley.

I still have to make covers out of perforated steel for the motor, chains and gears, and give it a lick of paint after tidying it up a bit more, but I'm well chuffed with the result. The other thing I'll do is get some non-slip conveyor roller covering and bond it to the rollers as the wheel is skidding in lower gears, and will be absolutley useless if it's wet.

Total cost - under NZ$500

[puddy]

If you are that good, leave the starter off and build the starter roller.:niceone: If you are the same as the rest of us (ie grid fillers), put the starter back on the bike. And besides, it's pretty good having one when the bike stalls on the start line.

[k1w160]

Yep, I'm just a grid filler too, but enjoy mucking about working on the bike and slowley getting it to where I want it to be.
Never had the bike stall on the start line yet in 4 years of racing, having a well tuned motor and a high idle speed helps.:niceone:

[jasonu]

Nice looking set up but imo a bit complicated.
Why not build a rig consisting of 2 heavy guage schedule pipe say 2-3 inches dia. Mount them say 300 apart using some 10mm steel plate. Make the pipe part long enough so you can park your bike and a driven wheel of your car/van on them to supply the turning power.

[k1w160]

Why not build a rig consisting of 2 heavy guage schedule pipe say 2-3 inches dia. Mount them say 300 apart using some 10mm steel plate. Make the pipe part long enough so you can park your bike and a driven wheel of your car/van on them to supply the turning power.

I've used that type set up before, but the disadvantage is needing a second person to drive the car, which can be a bit tight for time if the people your at the track with are racing in the same class as you and your all trying to get to the dummy grid at the same time.
The 24V set-up means I can even fire the bike up in the garage anytime if I need to, plus it more compact to transport that a set of car rollers.
Besides, it was an interesting exercise in working out how to get it to all work, and makin it:)

[gixerracer]

Since fitting the motor in my race bike (Yammy FZR1040) I've been having on-going drama's getting the dam thing started due to the electric starter and mechanism being removed during the motor build, mainly because it removed a significant ammount of reciprocating mass and allowed to motor to spin up quicker without having to lighten the crank.

Over the last year I have been using a friend's 2hp single phase start rollers which weigh a ton, and tend to stall when I let the clutch out.

A few weeks ago I tried a set of rollers at a race meeting built with a 12V car starter - nope stalled these as well, and my poor old friend was reduced to a sweating mass helping me push start the bike - and even then we needed several goes on a slope to get any success.

Well, a few months ago I picked up a 24V Mitsubishi truck starter brand new off TradeMe (the NZ version of Ebay) for $75 and started figuring out an economical way to build my own set of start rollers.

During the last week of work in December I took advantage of the quiet week to drop into the local conveyor component supplier (Richmond Wheel & Castors) and picked up a 1500mm length of conveyor side, some spacers to hold the frame apart, and two 290mm width steel rollers.
Then it was over to the local bearing shop for 5 sprockets, some 1/2" industrial chain, a few assorted bearings etc, plus some other lengths so steel.

I had a gear made for the starter to mesh onto a month or so ago, so it was time to get building.

The Mark 1 version consisted of two roller on the same plane, a 24V 10 amp relay and a foot switch which only activated if you held it down.

I struck a few design challenges with this version:

1. The wheel was touching the starter motor solinoid and not the rear roller.
2. The two 12V batteries wired in series were not activating the relay properly - only a faint click. In my wisdom I by-passed the relay and wired the switch directly to the start motor and pressed the button and yep it worked, however 10 seconds later the 10 amp switch cried enough and the terminals welded themselves together - bugger.

So, for the Mark 2 version I got another length of conveyor side and added a second level, hunted down a automotive 24V 30 amp relay and got the auto electrician to do me a wiring diagram, and with the addition of some heavy gauge wire, new connectors and a new switch - SUCCESS.

The rollers spin the motor over easily in 4th gear and the ol' girl fired up immediatley.

I still have to make covers out of perforated steel for the motor, chains and gears, and give it a lick of paint after tidying it up a bit more, but I'm well chuffed with the result. The other thing I'll do is get some non-slip conveyor roller covering and bond it to the rollers as the wheel is skidding in lower gears, and will be absolutley useless if it's wet.

Total cost - under NZ$500

Get a 12inch angle grinder and use that as the motor will start a truck and its plug in 240 volts

[froggyfrenchman]

Nice looking set up but imo a bit complicated.
Why not build a rig consisting of 2 heavy guage schedule pipe say 2-3 inches dia. Mount them say 300 apart using some 10mm steel plate. Make the pipe part long enough so you can park your bike and a driven wheel of your car/van on them to supply the turning power.

Not such a good idea when you factor in what you do to the diff in your car, and the hammering your car's tires get.

For anyone interested, Brent from 'AdrenalinR' racing, and City Steel and Eng here in Hastings has been playing with some pretty sexy designs of rollers that run off batteries. No idea of cost, but they are very good engineers.

http://www.adrenalinr.com/contactus.php
Link is contact info only - does not contain photos of any of their bike mufflers or rollers.

[Shorty_925]

For anyone interested, Brent from 'AdrenalinR' racing, and City Steel and Eng here in Hastings has been playing with some pretty sexy designs of rollers that run off batteries. No idea of cost, but they are very good engineers.


$2550.00

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Performance/auction-347681470.htm

[froggyfrenchman]

$2550.00

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Performance/auction-347681470.htm

Cheers Shorty, on your wish list eh?

[koba]

Not such a good idea when you factor in what you do to the diff in your car, and the hammering your car's tires get.


Even worse is trying it in a vehicle with a limited slip diff...

[Shorty_925]

Cheers Shorty, on your wish list eh?

nah, my kick-start works fine.

[piston broke]

if you had a grunty drll,
could you make a fitting (sorta like a seagull engine rope start).
then have the fitting connected to front sprocket.
bike on stands,pull the trigger.
possible?
patent pending btw :msn-wink:

[ktm]

Good on you for having a go and working out the problems. Well done, and a lot cheaper than $2500 no doubt.

[pete376403]

if you had a grunty drll,
could you make a fitting (sorta like a seagull engine rope start).
then have the fitting connected to front sprocket.
bike on stands,pull the trigger.
possible?
patent pending btw :msn-wink:

Like the motors they use to start dragster engines? - connect to the top supercharger pulley
The fisrt 12 seconds of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7vWnm-GdF4

[piston broke]

Like the motors they use to start dragster engines? - connect to the top supercharger pulley
The fisrt 12 seconds of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7vWnm-GdF4

yep thats the one.
damn it's been done,there goes my $million idea

[k1w160]

Hmm, I like the look of the 'AdrenalinR' starter but the extra $2000 for the same result just isn't a go with me.

Now that Ive proven the concept to myself, I think I can feel a Mark 3 version coming on later in the year consisting of waterjet cut ali or stainless side plates and 'cotoured' rollers, and I'm fairly sure that by using my contacts in the industry I can still get it done in a cost effective manner, but in the mean time I'll just use the garage special :msn-wink:

[Reckless]

if you had a grunty drll,
could you make a fitting (sorta like a seagull engine rope start).
then have the fitting connected to front sprocket.
bike on stands,pull the trigger.
possible?
patent pending btw :msn-wink:

Karters have been starting thier karts this way for many years.


229055
229056


Not sure these would have enough grunt for a big bore bike but the principle is there?
You might need a separate larger battery but you should be able to start it on a stand in say third with this idea?


Oh and BTW Mate 10 outa 10 for your effort!! Its good just to hav something to think about and work on!
Looks like it works and is small and transportable!!

[Dreama]

Hmm, I like the look of the 'AdrenalinR' starter but the extra $2000 for the same result just isn't a go with me.

Now that Ive proven the concept to myself, I think I can feel a Mark 3 version coming on later in the year consisting of waterjet cut ali or stainless side plates and 'cotoured' rollers, and I'm fairly sure that by using my contacts in the industry I can still get it done in a cost effective manner, but in the mean time I'll just use the garage special :msn-wink:

There's nothing wrong with the 'garage special' mate, they work just as well.
I made my rollers well over 10yrs ago with an 8hp honda petrol engine that has oodles of grunt ... it looks (and weighs) like a farm implement but it has consistently started my high compression Ducati's for years and about a squillion other bikes that couldn't get started at the track.
I decided to replace the old rollers a few years ago and made some new, lightweight, top quality components, heavy duty battery powered, compact etc etc .... after many $ and lotsa time .... the old ones work way better.
They have never failed to start my bikes after the first clutch drop .... not like many where the wheels are hopping, the chain/sprockets are getting beaten up and the tranny is getting serious abuse.