The safest country in the world for the next 50 years?

[Winston001]

As the children grow through their teens, a chaps mind turns to the importance of preserving the genetic pool. As you do. :D

So here I am telling my kids they should expect to work in Australia or Europe etc and not to restrict their careers to NZ. The opportunities in a global economy for young educated OECD people are awesome.

Then it occurred to me that Oz is potentially threatened by 238 million Indonesians who would love to move there. The rest of the developed world is two masses of land - Europe and America. If a war or disease broke out, borders won't matter, they are easily crossed.

I need my genetic offspring to be safe and spread the seed. So where is the best and safest place to live in the world in the coming 50 years?

[ellipsis]

....home is where the heart is...and the other side of the big opportunities thing is...where there's muck, there's brass...

[Ocean1]

So where is the best and safest place to live in the world in the coming 50 years?

In this world?

No, head west, young man.

[scissorhands]

Are we imputing a nuclear strike target potential?

Clean air and and mineral rich quality water and food ?

Universities and jobs?

Quality surf, lovely ladies and cheap beer?

What about Dunedin?

[mashman]

The best and safest place will be where the people are running the country.

[BuzzardNZ]

send them to Samoa

[Winston001]

In this world?

No, head west, young man.

Hmmm...it looks like Venus is in precession to the west but dang, its HOT! :eek:


Are we imputing a nuclear strike target potential?

Clean air and and mineral rich quality water and food ?

Universities and jobs?

Quality surf, lovely ladies and cheap beer?

What about Dunedin?

LOL a man after my own heart. :niceone:


send them to Samoa

Yeeesss...I was sort of assuming stable democracy, rule of law, modern medicine, plenty of food and energy, ships which float... But of course you go ahead, we'll catch up later... :D

[awayatc]

Kids...?

Safe...?

don't belong in same sentence im afraid......

[scissorhands]

The best and safest place will be where the people are running the country.

Fiji? Good if your Fijian but bad if your not

[Berries]

I need my genetic offspring to be safe and spread the seed. So where is the best and safest place to live in the world in the coming 50 years?
I wouldn't worry about Australia. Whatever happens to them through immigration or invasion will happen here. Their lack of water will mean NZ is more of a target anyway.

My worry is that in 15-20 years time my kids may not be able to travel internationally as easily or as cheaply as I have done over the last 20 years. Would hate to see it go back to the sailing ship days because all the oil has run out. Of course, in 50 years time we will all be followers of Islam therefore will have to do the Haj, so some international travel will still be possible.

The future looks grim. But then it looked grim in the late 60's when I was born, grim in 1939 England when my old man was born and even grimmer than that when his parents were born. The future is always grim.

If you are serious about your kids spreading their seed then you need them to start copulating as young as possible. I see you are in Invers, so they've got a good head start. :msn-wink:


What about Dunedin?
We're full, piss off. Try Balclutha.

[Big Dave]

Noo Zillund.

[Owl]

In this world?

No, head west, young man.

Predominant wind here is westerly..............so much easier to head east:msn-wink:

[Winston001]

My question is actually something I've been pondering for the last three years. Reasons?



Global population growth is heading for a disaster
Famine, disease, and war will follow
Invasion by refugees and people desperate for better living conditions eg. Indonesians
We are overdue for a viral epidemic and only the developed nations have the infrastructure to isolate themselves and modern medical facilities
Bacterial disease is also a serious threat even if slightly easier to fight
Diseases know no borders - crossing land is simple.
A safe country has sea borders which makes invasion by large numbers difficult.
A sea border is also a natural barrier to disease. Airports and harbours can be closed.
A safe country has to be far enough away across the sea to be difficult to reach
It would also not have valuable minerals and resources so its even less attractive to try to get to.


Sooo......where? Madagascar? Iceland? Japan? Malta? Crete.......?

[Gibbo89]

http://www.expatify.com/advice/10-best-places-to-live-for-escaping-world-conflict.html

Chur

[HenryDorsetCase]

As the children grow through their teens, a chaps mind turns to the importance of preserving the genetic pool. As you do. :D

So here I am telling my kids they should expect to work in Australia or Europe etc and not to restrict their careers to NZ. The opportunities in a global economy for young educated OECD people are awesome.

Then it occurred to me that Oz is potentially threatened by 238 million Indonesians who would love to move there. The rest of the developed world is two masses of land - Europe and America. If a war or disease broke out, borders won't matter, they are easily crossed.

I need my genetic offspring to be safe and spread the seed. So where is the best and safest place to live in the world in the coming 50 years?

In that bunker under those mountains with John Connor. Just hope they dont get sent back to the past to alter the future.

[HenryDorsetCase]

My question is actually something I've been pondering for the last three years. Reasons?



Global population growth is heading for a disaster
Famine, disease, and war will follow
Invasion by refugees and people desperate for better living conditions eg. Indonesians
We are overdue for a viral epidemic and only the developed nations have the infrastructure to isolate themselves and modern medical facilities
Bacterial disease is also a serious threat even if slightly easier to fight
Diseases know no borders - crossing land is simple.
A safe country has sea borders which makes invasion by large numbers difficult.
A sea border is also a natural barrier to disease. Airports and harbours can be closed.
A safe country has to be far enough away across the sea to be difficult to reach
It would also not have valuable minerals and resources so its even less attractive to try to get to.


Sooo......where? Madagascar? Iceland? Japan? Malta? Crete.......?

You should totally download and watch THE WALKING DEAD ... with that train of thought, you'd love it.


serious answer: Tasmania or Crete.

[puddytat]

My question is actually something I've been pondering for the last three years. Reasons?



Global population growth is heading for a disaster
Famine, disease, and war will follow
Invasion by refugees and people desperate for better living conditions eg. Indonesians
We are overdue for a viral epidemic and only the developed nations have the infrastructure to isolate themselves and modern medical facilities
Bacterial disease is also a serious threat even if slightly easier to fight
Diseases know no borders - crossing land is simple.
A safe country has sea borders which makes invasion by large numbers difficult.
A sea border is also a natural barrier to disease. Airports and harbours can be closed.
A safe country has to be far enough away across the sea to be difficult to reach
It would also not have valuable minerals and resources so its even less attractive to try to get to.


Sooo......where? Madagascar? Iceland? Japan? Malta? Crete.......?

Yah forgot about here bro, its got all of the above:niceone:
I reckon we should change our marketing slogan from "Clean & Green NZ" to "Clean & Green & the Only Place Left".
Get the dole bludgers building a chainlink razor wire fence round it....

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yah forgot about here bro, its got all of the above:niceone:
I reckon we should change our marketing slogan from "Clean & Green NZ" to "Clean & Green & the Only Place Left".
Get the dole bludgers building a chainlink razor wire fence round it....

except, thanks to Uncle Helen, no realistic way to defend itself from a horde of muslim indonesians from ooop nooorth trying to take our jobs, women, and primary produce sectors, and impose retarded stone age sharia law.

http://stealthsurvival.blogspot.com/2008/12/survivalist-101.html

[puddytat]

except, thanks to Uncle Helen, no realistic way to defend itself from a horde of muslim indonesians from ooop nooorth trying to take our jobs, women, and primary produce sectors, and impose retarded stone age sharia law.

http://stealthsurvival.blogspot.com/2008/12/survivalist-101.html

Yeah I know, but we could soon change that.....
Im not trying to be smart but I really think that there needs to be discussion on the points brought up by Winston....are our fearless leaders planning on any of these possible scenarios? Are we going to be Humanitarian & open our doors to all & sundry when they start coming by the Frieghter full, or are we going to say fuck off & wave sticks at them?

[scumdog]

We're full, piss off. Try Balclutha.
We're waay too dangerous...try Kaitangata..:wait:

[Elysium]

The world is only going to get worse if the population keeps increasing.

[blackdog]

I wouldn't worry about Australia. Their lack of water ...


(no comment required)

[mashman]

The Galapagos, Middle of what's left of the Amazon, A mountain top in Canada, pretty much anywhere in Siberia, The Falklands, The Arctic... there's loads of places to go, just don't be anywhere near "civilisation" :rofl:

[HenryDorsetCase]

The Galapagos, Middle of what's left of the Amazon, A mountain top in Canada, pretty much anywhere in Siberia, The Falklands, The Arctic... there's loads of places to go, just don't be anywhere near "civilisation" :rofl:

cool, I'm off to the North Shore.


....................what?

[mashman]

cool, I'm off to the North Shore.


....................what?

let me know how that works out for ya :)

[pete376403]

except, thanks to Uncle Helen, no realistic way to defend itself from a horde of muslim indonesians from ooop nooorth trying to take our jobs, women, and primary produce sectors, and impose retarded stone age sharia law.

http://stealthsurvival.blogspot.com/2008/12/survivalist-101.html
You really think our little collection of antique skyhawks and aermacchi trainers could keep anyone out?

There's 238 million Indonesians - they could just "human wave" us till our ammo ran out, then we'd be wide open to the 237 million that were left. Our best hope is that they invade Aussie first and get lost somewhere in the desert.

[Elysium]

except, thanks to Uncle Helen, no realistic way to defend itself from a horde of muslim indonesians from ooop nooorth trying to take our jobs, women, and primary produce sectors, and impose retarded stone age sharia law.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uORAyORWRAA

[Winston001]

You really think our little collection of antique skyhawks and aermacchi trainers could keep anyone out?

There's 238 million Indonesians - they could just "human wave" us till our ammo ran out, then we'd be wide open to the 237 million that were left. Our best hope is that they invade Aussie first and get lost somewhere in the desert.



...Are we going to be Humanitarian & open our doors to all & sundry when they start coming by the Frieghter full, or are we going to say fuck off & wave sticks at them?

I think we are reasonably safe because NZ is an obscure nation compared with Australia. We are also protected by 1800km of rough southern ocean. The proof of that is we haven't had any refugee boats from Asia whereas for the Australians it has been a constant problem since the end of the Vietnam War.

The other thing is transporting large numbers of people is very difficult. Roads make refugee and military movement easy but oceans are a wall.



The Galapagos, Middle of what's left of the Amazon, A mountain top in Canada, pretty much anywhere in Siberia, The Falklands, The Arctic... there's loads of places to go, just don't be anywhere near "civilisation" :rofl:

Mmm sort of - there are plenty of areas of wilderness but they are desolate for a reason. Hard to get to and tough to live in. Plus you'd have to count on all the other people who have the same idea...

I don't for a moment believe there is any risk to all mankind. Many (perhaps 2 billion) will survive and it will be the ones with "civilisation". My question is really to determine a country which has enough resources, modern technology and hard for teeming millions to enter.

[Tink]

The world is only going to get worse if the population keeps increasing.

Tell that to Andrew he just baby number 8...


As the children grow through their teens, a chaps mind turns to the importance of preserving the genetic pool. As you do. :D

So here I am telling my kids they should expect to work in Australia or Europe etc and not to restrict their careers to NZ. The opportunities in a global economy for young educated OECD people are awesome.

Then it occurred to me that Oz is potentially threatened by 238 million Indonesians who would love to move there. The rest of the developed world is two masses of land - Europe and America. If a war or disease broke out, borders won't matter, they are easily crossed.

I need my genetic offspring to be safe and spread the seed. So where is the best and safest place to live in the world in the coming 50 years?

Winston, my attitude is teach your kids to preserve, and not to go out and have babies cause its so easy to be on the DPB, get an education, and look after number 1... my girls will travel, they are half Danish they have too. PS They have an awesome structure in Scandinavia... you actually have to work for the dole!!!!!!!!

[scissorhands]

NZ could be better, but in comparison with the much smaller isolated island nations, we could be top of the safe and developed list.

Our SAS has earned a reputation as well as other military endeavours, so we could now be a target for a strike.

2 hours away from AK, Well, Ch Ch or Dunedin should be fine in that regard. Even Piha (40min from Queen St) over the ranges would prolly be safe


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYvMeT2GC14

[racefactory]

Interesting thread.

Too many fucking people in this world and you are just too right, it will all end with disease and mass migration, ultimately crushing us 'whites'.

We've had our turn in the history books with power and civilization and the others will not stop till they have had a taste of it too.

It's in our nature to destroy ourselves.

[mashman]

Mmm sort of - there are plenty of areas of wilderness but they are desolate for a reason. Hard to get to and tough to live in. Plus you'd have to count on all the other people who have the same idea...


Those who have the same idea may well be pretty "civilised", and i wouldn't mind tough to live in if the alternative is spending each and every single day and night scrapping for food and water and wondering who was coming to take that last bag of chippies... But if it has to be somewhere... i'm with puddytat... NZ fits the bill...



except, thanks to Uncle Helen, no realistic way to defend itself from a horde of muslim indonesians from ooop nooorth trying to take our jobs, women, and primary produce sectors, and impose retarded stone age sharia law.


You reckon there'd be a horde of organised people should everything turn to shit? I'd be surprised if half of the boats made it out of their ports, let alone have the fuel to make it this far... and even then I doubt that many could navigate the oceans to make it here (GPS etc... or not) and by the time they did, they'd be so weak that they'd be easy to defend against... just stock up on bazookas and sea mines :)



It's in our nature to destroy ourselves.


I disagree.

[racefactory]

Is anyone (especially in Auckland) sometimes already feeling at all threatened as a white person? I sometimes feel it won't be long till there are no more of us left in our own country.

[scissorhands]

Is anyone (especially in Auckland) sometimes already feeling at all threatened as a white person? I sometimes feel it won't be long till there are no more of us left in our own country.

I've taken to using brown shoe polish as a precaution.

[mashman]

Is anyone (especially in Auckland) sometimes already feeling at all threatened as a white person? I sometimes feel it won't be long till there are no more of us left in our own country.

lay off the weed, ze paranoia must be kickin in :bleh:... try London's Kings Cross market at 4am... all teeth, eyes and bastardised english... fuckin good people though :), put you at ease real quick...

[Woodman]

Is anyone (especially in Auckland) sometimes already feeling at all threatened as a white person? I sometimes feel it won't be long till there are no more of us left in our own country.

Mate get over it, you are sounding like an australian. The white people haven't been here that many generations yet themselves. NZ is still being colonised.

I think the hoards of Indonesians heading to Aussie are looking for a safe future too, just like us.

[scissorhands]

French immigration to NZ has quadrupled in the last couple of years.

Viva la France!

[davereid]

Our best hope is that they invade Aussie first and get lost somewhere in the desert.

In WW2, japanese planners considered invading NZ before Austraila.

They felt..

If the invaded Australia from the north, they were still miles from the prize cities in the south east. They would hold no major ports. Austrailia could be endlessly resupplied and reinforced from New Zealand.

On the other hand, if they invaded NZ first, they had the best ports, they controlled the tasman sea, NZ acted as a natural fort for ensuring the US could not reinforce aussie, and they had plentiful food, coal etc.

[HenryDorsetCase]

In WW2, japanese planners considered invading NZ before Austraila.

They felt..

If the invaded Australia from the north, they were still miles from the prize cities in the south east. They would hold no major ports. Austrailia could be endlessly resupplied and reinforced from New Zealand.

On the other hand, if they invaded NZ first, they had the best ports, they controlled the tasman sea, NZ acted as a natural fort for ensuring the US could not reinforce aussie, and they had plentiful food, coal etc.

source? that is very interesting: and of course ties in with the Japanese subs in (was it?) Orklind harbour and stuff.

[Winston001]

In WW2, japanese planners considered invading NZ before Austraila.

They felt..

If the invaded Australia from the north, they were still miles from the prize cities in the south east. They would hold no major ports. Austrailia could be endlessly resupplied and reinforced from New Zealand.

On the other hand, if they invaded NZ first, they had the best ports, they controlled the tasman sea, NZ acted as a natural fort for ensuring the US could not reinforce aussie, and they had plentiful food, coal etc.

Interesting...but they didn't do it. They did bomb Darwin which suggests that was their invasion point.

[Gibbo89]

source? that is very interesting: and of course ties in with the Japanese subs in (was it?) Orklind harbour and stuff.

Lyttelton harbour was where some were spotted, the gun emplacements on Godley Head sunk a fishing ship that didn't identify itself in fear that it was the Japs

[davereid]

source? that is very interesting: and of course ties in with the Japanese subs in (was it?) Orklind harbour and stuff.

I have been googling away trying to find where I read it, and of course as is always the case, these things remain hidden when they are wanted.

So I hang my head in shame, unable to find my reference...

One thing I found about the article was it focuused on external threats to way of life, and liberty.

Are we sure thats where the threat will come from ?

As New Zealanders we have had stable and relatively benign government for many years, to the point we are complacent.

But it seems to me, we are rapidly building the tools of tyranny.

We have seen the end of the privy council, the end of the presumption of innocence, the end of jury trials for many crimes. We may now be subjected to random search and siezure for a wide range of offences. The government through the EGOVT ID system operated by the Department of Internal Affairs is well down the path of creating a biometric "virtual"ID card system for us. Virtual, because you dont need to carry it, computer networks will enable it to be stored and retreived when required.

http://www.e.govt.nz/plone/archive/services/authentication/ivs.1.html

The NZTA have considered vehicle tracking systems that track your vehicle, and you as well by tracking your cellphone, as well as electronically managing your fines, parking and registration.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/research/reports/397/docs/397.pdf

Many of the technologies used have legitimate reasons to be used.

But it is a basic principle that once enforcement can occur without public support, then anything can be required of the public.

[oneofsix]

As New Zealanders we have had stable and relatively benign government for many years, to the point we are complacent.

But it seems to me, we are rapidly building the tools of tyranny.

We have seen the end of the privy council, the end of the presumption of innocence, the end of jury trials for many crimes. We may now be subjected to random search and siezure for a wide range of offences. The government through the EGOVT ID system operated by the Department of Internal Affairs is well down the path of creating a biometric "virtual"ID card system for us. Virtual, because you dont need to carry it, computer networks will enable it to be stored and retreived when required.



You omitted the ability for the trial to proceed without the the defendant being present currently being introduced.
Our benign governments have seduced us. As I am sure will be pointed out these measure are introduced to save money and wont be used badly, someone always says something like that, but they can be and therefore should not be allowed, they aren't required.
Trust the government, or to put in a way more will understand, trust politicians? :drinknsin

[Woodman]

I have been googling away trying to find where I read it, and of course as is always the case, these things remain hidden when they are wanted.

So I hang my head in shame, unable to find my reference...

One thing I found about the article was it focuused on external threats to way of life, and liberty.

Are we sure thats where the threat will come from ?

As New Zealanders we have had stable and relatively benign government for many years, to the point we are complacent.

But it seems to me, we are rapidly building the tools of tyranny.

We have seen the end of the privy council, the end of the presumption of innocence, the end of jury trials for many crimes. We may now be subjected to random search and siezure for a wide range of offences. The government through the EGOVT ID system operated by the Department of Internal Affairs is well down the path of creating a biometric "virtual"ID card system for us. Virtual, because you dont need to carry it, computer networks will enable it to be stored and retreived when required.

http://www.e.govt.nz/plone/archive/services/authentication/ivs.1.html

The NZTA have considered vehicle tracking systems that track your vehicle, and you as well by tracking your cellphone, as well as electronically managing your fines, parking and registration.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/research/reports/397/docs/397.pdf

Many of the technologies used have legitimate reasons to be used.

But it is a basic principle that once enforcement can occur without public support, then anything can be required of the public.

if they were really trying to take away our rights and subdue us, then why haven't they made firearms illegal?
Its very hard to oppress the populus when they are armed.

[oneofsix]

if they were really trying to take away our rights and subdue us, then why haven't they made firearms illegal?
Its very hard to oppress the populus when they are armed.

:sleep: They have been working on it for years. Goes against our pioneering , diy culture so they have to take it slow but this is why everytime there is a shooting incident they tighten the rules even though the existing ones would have worked

[phill-k]

if they were really trying to take away our rights and subdue us, then why haven't they made firearms illegal?
Its very hard to oppress the populus when they are armed.

Interesting comment, I was asking on another bike forum (vulcan) predominantly USA based about a threat they had relating to a "concealed carry permit" for personal firearms. Seemed a lot of the elderly bikers :eek: carried concealed handguns and part of the reason was not only personal security but they felt by the populous having multiple firearms in their possession it keeps their government in check.
Not sure how it works and how they would organise themselves but an interesting comment.

[oneofsix]

Interesting comment, I was asking on another bike forum (vulcan) predominantly USA based about a threat they had relating to a "concealed carry permit" for personal firearms. Seemed a lot of the elderly bikers :eek: carried concealed handguns and part of the reason was not only personal security but they felt by the populous having multiple firearms in their possession it keeps their government in check.
Not sure how it works and how they would organise themselves but an interesting comment.

I understand where they are coming from. There 'right' to carry firearms was related to their independence war so it is logical they see it as a way to check the government.:niceone:

[Clockwork]

I have been googling away trying to find where I read it, and of course as is always the case, these things remain hidden when they are wanted.

So I hang my head in shame, unable to find my reference...

One thing I found about the article was it focuused on external threats to way of life, and liberty.

Are we sure thats where the threat will come from ?

As New Zealanders we have had stable and relatively benign government for many years, to the point we are complacent.

But it seems to me, we are rapidly building the tools of tyranny.

We have seen the end of the privy council, the end of the presumption of innocence, the end of jury trials for many crimes. We may now be subjected to random search and siezure for a wide range of offences. The government through the EGOVT ID system operated by the Department of Internal Affairs is well down the path of creating a biometric "virtual"ID card system for us. Virtual, because you dont need to carry it, computer networks will enable it to be stored and retreived when required.

http://www.e.govt.nz/plone/archive/services/authentication/ivs.1.html

The NZTA have considered vehicle tracking systems that track your vehicle, and you as well by tracking your cellphone, as well as electronically managing your fines, parking and registration.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/research/reports/397/docs/397.pdf

Many of the technologies used have legitimate reasons to be used.

But it is a basic principle that once enforcement can occur without public support, then anything can be required of the public.


Careful now, or you'll be labeled a tree hugging liberal with a persecution complex!

[Smifffy]

The best and safest place will be where the people are running the country.


Such as South Africa for example?

[Smifffy]

I sometimes feel it won't be long till there are no more of us left in our own country.

The way you say you ride, I'm not surprised.

[Swoop]

source? that is very interesting: and of course ties in with the Japanese subs in (was it?) Orklind harbour and stuff.

1942 8 March
New Zealand
An aircraft from a Japanese submarine made a reconnaissance flight over Wellington on 8 March 1942.

1942 13 March
New Zealand
A second aircraft from a Japanese submarine made a reconnaissance flight over Auckland.

From here (http://www.army.mil.nz/culture-and-history/nz-army-history/historical-chronology/1939.htm).

[avgas]

Japan......no really

[terbang]

Then it occurred to me that Oz is potentially threatened by 238 million Indonesians who would love to move there.

Tell him he's dreaming... I lived in Indonesia for a while and after that worked for Australian Customs Coastwatch.

The Indons love their archipelago and they have absolutely no inclination to swap it for a desert. As for the illegal immigrants that we all hear about, the Indon involvement in this is really only being the couriers of the immigrants who are from many other troubled parts of the world (including Europe), but are not Indonesians.

Though I agree, Australian-Indonesian relationships can get strained and the Indons have a massive military force that the Aussies certainly do know not to fuck around with. But that is not because Indons want to go to Australia.