It's not revenue gathering

[Gremlin]

You decide. I'm not one to bash the cops for anything and everything, but I wasn't impressed with this camera placement over Christmas / New Years.

It was on SH2 between Opotiki and Gisborne, about 40km out of Gisborne with the van pointing south, camera pointing north. 10km of open roads minimum either side.

3 road markers out, the camera van was completely hidden. First pic shows the road from the direction the camera is pointing, the next 3 moving towards the van, with the bike parked pretty much opposite the van all the time.

I was on a day trip to Gisborne, and promised if it was still there upon my return, I would stop and take some pictures. I also assisted the van in getting the slow down message across, while I was stopped there. :niceone:

[shafty]

Seems straight forward to me...........Cash Cheque or Credit Card?

[davebullet]

Did you get pinged?

[thepom]

if its an camera van and unmanned,whats to srop you breaking in and stealing the camera? :msn-wink::bleh::eek:

[oneofsix]

Is he still on the roadside? Looks to be in line with the cattle ramp which I presume is on private property.
My favorite road "safety" poster is one where they show a speed camera photo of a car on a flat straight road with the tag "last family photo". Always made me think "proves speed cameras don't save lives", if a cop :Police: had stopped the driver then it may have saved a live but a photo fine after the incident is not going to and now they are hiding there is even less chance of them being road safety related.

[Scuba_Steve]

:Police: "its not revenue gathering" "its saving lives"... Oh and congratulations you've just won the random lottery you never entered, the IRD wanna give you back $461.48, some Russian chick thinks your hot & wants to get with you, & some dead guy left a whole lot of money that someone wants to split with you.

[Jdogg]

not really hidden, I could see it by the third pic, which, judging by the distance would give you plenty of time to have a brake/speed check.....seen much worse, for example heading towards tauranga via te puke, just as you get onto the (only) passing lane just after the first papamoa beach turn off, it sits just in a little parking bay after the first left hander! almost had me....:msn-wink:

[vifferman]

I don't believe speed cameras contribute anything towards road safety (unless someone is pinged repeatedly and can't afford to risk any more fines). By the time you get the ticket, you've already sped and killed lots of people (I know - the random signs on the side of the road tell me: "You speed, people die"). Then you have to work out when, where, what the circumstances were, etc. and it's all TOO LATE to bring those people back to life. And too late for you to go, "Oops! I should slow down.." (especially if you never knew you'd been flashed, like my only speed camera ticket, and my wife's only two ever tickets.

[ukusa]

I also assisted the van in getting the slow down message across, while I was stopped there. :niceone:
ha ha, good on ya mate! If the message is to slow down, why not park near camera vans warning the motorist to slow down before the camera.

[Bikemad]

Seems straight forward to me...........rock through window

what he really wanted to say...........me......i would have taken the time to put a tiny pebble under the valve dustcap on a front wheel..........

[Smifffy]

Is he still on the roadside? Looks to be in line with the cattle ramp which I presume is on private property.
My favorite road "safety" poster is one where they show a speed camera photo of a car on a flat straight road with the tag "last family photo". Always made me think "proves speed cameras don't save lives", if a cop :Police: had stopped the driver then it may have saved a live but a photo fine after the incident is not going to and now they are hiding there is even less chance of them being road safety related.


ha ha, good on ya mate! If the message is to slow down, why not park near camera vans warning the motorist to slow down before the camera.

It's the same day David! ad campaign illustrated exactly the same point, which, I believe was one of the reasons it got pulled a few years back.

IMO if you slowed down a few vehicles while you were poncing about taking photos then you did more for road safety on that stretch of road in that time than the van man did all day.

If speed really does kill, then why aren't TPTB trying to curb it, rather than exploit it.

I would have thought they would slow more vehicles down, If they had huge fuck off signs plastered around the area saying "Speed camera operating in area" and 1/4 mile out in each direction another sign saying speed camera nearby.

Then a hi viz van with disco gear, and maybe a sign saying, now speed past me ya fuckers!

[Smifffy]

I followed a private contractor (presumably) on his way to set up his van in the Manawatu one morning. We were doing 120 km/h.

Hypocrite.

[KoroJ]

At least it didn't come with Demerits!

[red mermaid]

Yeah Right!


what he really wanted to say...........me......i would have taken the time to put a tiny pebble under the valve dustcap on a front wheel..........


There are no private contractors doing speed camera work.


I followed a private contractor (presumably) on his way to set up his van in the Manawatu one morning. We were doing 120 km/h.

Hypocrite.

[Smifffy]

Yeah Right!




There are no private contractors doing speed camera work.

Oh, ok. Has there ever been? Dude looked way older than most cops I've ever seen and had no semblance of a uniform about him. That's why I picked him for a contractor.

Maybe he was a sworn officer following a vehicle of operational significance down the Newbury Line at 8 am on a Saturday morning.

[onearmedbandit]

I'm sure someone stated before that they were non-sworn officers.

[Gremlin]

Did you get pinged?
Don't believe so... but damn, those straights sure are boring. I had the self restraint of a superhuman. Heading to Rotorua, I swept down left onto a long clear straight, and resisted the urge to wind her out, just once. Tipping into the right hand corner at the end, I noticed the layby, nestled down off the road... and a set of red and blues above the grass. Bugger me, I never saw the car, as it was hidden in the layby entry.

Because it wasn't my bike it wasn't wired up with all my comms, radar etc. Felt so vulnerable not knowing what was happening.

not really hidden, I could see it by the third pic, which, judging by the distance would give you plenty of time to have a brake/speed check.....
At 100kph you're covering 27.78m per second. That's actually a not a lot of time, when you've covered some relatively boring roads for a few minutes prior.

At least it didn't come with Demerits!
True... but I try not to speed past cameras. Last thing we need is people demanding front license plates. Nasty things they were.

Agree with OAB, I believe the people are non-sworn. Talk about getting paid to sit on your arse all day.

[Smifffy]

I'm sure someone stated before that they were non-sworn officers.

Ok thanks. Pretty fine distinction IMO.

Still, I bet he gets sworn at plenty of times.

Are non-sworn officers held to the same standard of conduct as their sworn brethren?

[Usarka]

Are non-sworn officers held to the same standard of conduct as their sworn brethren?

Yep, gang rape and donuts at the bar.

[Swoop]

That looks like a really dangerous stretch of road.[/sarcasm]


if its an camera van and unmanned,whats to srop you breaking in and stealing the camera? :msn-wink::bleh::eek:
The operator. They HAVE to stay inside the vehicle.

Many years ago they could sit outside, sunbathe, have a snooze over the fence, but due to some threats/problems they are under the policy of staying inside.

[george formby]

That looks like a really dangerous stretch of road.[/sarcasm]


The operator. They HAVE to stay inside the vehicle.

Many years ago they could sit outside, sunbathe, have a snooze over the fence, but due to some threats/problems they are under the policy of staying inside.

Their is regularly a van parked down the road from home in a 70kmh area, either just over a crest or tucked inside a corner at the bottom of the hill. If your speeding it WILL get you. Never seen a driver in it though.
IMHO the van is in an appropriate place doing an appropriate job. It's a dangerous bit of road with junctions, driveways, a slow vehicle race track coming up to a completely blind crossroads at the crest of a hill with an overtaking drag strip on the other side leading into a chevron turning area.

Their is a world of difference between the OP's van tucked in the shade on a long straight with good visibility & the one at the bottom of my hill.
I do know that my local van has done nothing to slow down drivers just get revenue from unsuspecting visitors. I cannot see the OP's van having any effect on behaviour either, any way I would spot it a mile away. Very predictable positioning.

[Macstar]

A word on the matter from Queensland. Camera fines come with demerit points - default is the registered owner of the vehicle (up to the owner to prove otherwise). 12 demerit points to last 3 years. Double demerit points during public holidays. If you get a 4 pointer, then its double points for any further fines in the next year.

Qld only had 3 fixed speed cameras state-wide until recently. This is now on the rise and more mobile cameras are being introduced. Signs are still displayed to warn motorists of speed camera activity, so you usually have time to 'adjust' your speed...

Speed limits are generally higher in Qld, 60kph for most residential streets and 110kph for most open roads and highways. Around 10% tolerance, so you can do up to 120kph without too much worry.

Qld apparently has the worst road accident / injury and death rates in Australia. But then the average motorist seems less capable than the average Kiwi one. Most motorcyclists don't wear much beyond a helmet and jacket. 90% don't wear pants, gloves or boots - good luck to them.

Call me soft, I haven't bought a bike since moving here. I'd either lose my license or get taken out by one of the many useless QLD drivers. I get my 'wind in the hair' action from jetskiing. 1500cc supercharged kawasaki (250hp).

Agree with those in this forum that say NZ camera fines are not a deterrant to speeding. Pay the fine and move on, no points, no consequence. If the NZ Govt was serious about changing behaviours they'd add points to camera fines. I can only assume that their reluctance to add demerit points to camera fines is because if it were to change behaviours and slow people down, they would receive less revenue...

[Swoop]

Call me soft, I haven't bought a bike since moving here.
"Auckers"???

[Macstar]

"Auckers"???

Did my time in Taranaki - didn't get the Hardcore T-shirt though! - In Brisbane nowadays.

[Qkkid]

That looks like a really dangerous stretch of road.[/sarcasm]


The operator. They HAVE to stay inside the vehicle.

Many years ago they could sit outside, sunbathe, have a snooze over the fence, but due to some threats/problems they are under the policy of staying inside.

Maybe it was a bit hot and he was trying to stay in the shade under the trees:bleh:

[awa355]

Here's a question. If a camera van is parked up doing his job, I come along, and choose to park my bike about 30-40metres back from the van, on the shoulder and consult my map, open the thermos , check for a 'fault' on the bike etc, could I be made to move? Am I hindering a police operation?

[Bald Eagle]

The coffee's OK, but if you have more donuts than :Police: you could be in a bit of strife.

[Jdogg]

Here's a question. If a camera van is parked up doing his job, I come along, and choose to park my bike about 30-40metres back from the van, on the shoulder and consult my map, open the thermos , check for a 'fault' on the bike etc, could I be made to move? Am I hindering a police operation?

No problem at all :bleh:, did exactly that a few years ago on greenlane road, sat 20ish mtrs back is a white van waving people down:niceone:.....nothing was said:facepalm:....maybe he thought I was another camera operator trying to fuck with his quota :msn-wink:

[red mermaid]

More likely just doesn't care if you want to behave like a compete dickhead...the operator still gets paid anyway.

[Smifffy]

More likely just doesn't care if you want to behave like a compete dickhead...the operator still gets paid anyway.

And at the end of the day that is all that anyone involved in this sorry scam cares about anyway - getting paid.

[baptist]

Yep, gang rape and donuts at the bar. :facepalm::innocent: I cannot laugh at such stereotyping... :killingme:lol:.... much


Their is regularly a van parked down the road from home in a 70kmh area, either just over a crest or tucked inside a corner at the bottom of the hill. If your speeding it WILL get you. Never seen a driver in it though.
IMHO the van is in an appropriate place doing an appropriate job. It's a dangerous bit of road with junctions, driveways, a slow vehicle race track coming up to a completely blind crossroads at the crest of a hill with an overtaking drag strip on the other side leading into a chevron turning area.

Their is a world of difference between the OP's van tucked in the shade on a long straight with good visibility & the one at the bottom of my hill.
I do know that my local van has done nothing to slow down drivers just get revenue from unsuspecting visitors. I cannot see the OP's van having any effect on behaviour either, any way I would spot it a mile away. Very predictable positioning.

I know I do look out for the camera vans, but more so cop cars, while I try to keep my speed down whatever I am riding/driving it can creep up, a better deterent would be camera signage or visibility of the vehicles. Hiding a van in the trees is not a safety aid it is a taxation device. Sign them or get rid of them and spend the cost of running them on other methods of making the roads safe (after all I am sure they cannot possibly be self sufficient or profit making, can they?:msn-wink:)

[rastuscat]

Au contraire, mes amis.

To those who have suggested that there is no deterrent in a hidden camera van, trawl back through all the threads about hidden camera vans, then think about the paranoia they have created. Certainly, the idea that there might be a camera in the next grove of trees slows folk down.

To those who consider it is all about revenue, consider that the operators performance targets are based on the number of hours each konth that the cameras operate. That's why they don't care if you park in the beam and play silly buggers, the camera clock is still ticking.

Donuts.

[oneofsix]

Au contraire, mes amis.

To those who have suggested that there is no deterrent in a hidden camera van, trawl back through all the threads about hidden camera vans, then think about the paranoia they have created. Certainly, the idea that there might be a camera in the next grove of trees slows folk down.

To those who consider it is all about revenue, consider that the operators performance targets are based on the number of hours each konth that the cameras operate. That's why they don't care if you park in the beam and play silly buggers, the camera clock is still ticking.

Donuts.

Yes the fear slows some down, but is that really a safety gain? or have you not been skeptical enough. The supposed safety gain in policing speed is to reduce the speed difference not enhance it. And what about the driver the eventually spots the van late and brakes hard, that does assist road safety. IMHO people will accept these things if they really improved road safety but reality they are just revenue gathering scams.
Thanks for the suggestion, nice to know they wont care as long as we not spill the coffee or upset the donuts. :devil2:

[PrincessBandit]

At least the vans aren't camouflaged to blend into their hidey holes, or small mounted cameras attached to the undergrowth ala James Bond movies. A vehicle parked on the side of the road like that could be a family car or van stopped for any number of problems potentially with kids moving around near the road (I know, grasping at straws a bit there, my bad).

The reality is at least the van is visible* (red) so you can go "aww shit" and expect the long envelope in the mail - it doesn't just turn up out of the blue unexpectedly!

*unless you're colour blind

[Scuba_Steve]

At least the vans aren't camouflaged to blend into their hidey holes, or small mounted cameras attached to the undergrowth ala James Bond movies.

... Yet...

[Gremlin]

At least the vans aren't camouflaged to blend into their hidey holes, or small mounted cameras attached to the undergrowth ala James Bond movies.
If they are anything like the Australians, they'd keep losing them: http://www.failfunnies.com/32/images/australian-army-fail.jpg

A vehicle parked on the side of the road like that could be a family car or van
The new ones have taken a while to get more alert to, the first few (parked in absolute easy to see places - ie, on the side of the road, no bushes) I only realised they were camera vans was when I passed by and saw the camera. They really do look like a normal car, stopped for kids or something.

ratuscat: The problem is that the govt strongly denies its revenue gathering, yet this shows the opposite (well, none of us are that surprised, but the proof is in the pudding, so to speak). Making us paranoid doesn't work. I believe that was the only van I saw in 2000km and a week of travel right in between Christmas and New Years.

[rastuscat]

ratuscat: The problem is that the govt strongly denies its revenue gathering, yet this shows the opposite (well, none of us are that surprised, but the proof is in the pudding, so to speak).

Mmmmmmmm........pudding.

[Gremlin]

Mmmmmmmm........pudding.
Now look... that's hardly fair!

You have donuts AND pudding? :gob:

[george formby]

:facepalm::innocent: I cannot laugh at such stereotyping... :killingme:lol:.... much



I know I do look out for the camera vans, but more so cop cars, while I try to keep my speed down whatever I am riding/driving it can creep up, a better deterent would be camera signage or visibility of the vehicles. Hiding a van in the trees is not a safety aid it is a taxation device. Sign them or get rid of them and spend the cost of running them on other methods of making the roads safe (after all I am sure they cannot possibly be self sufficient or profit making, can they?:msn-wink:)

It's ironic that the most effective technique I have seen for reducing speed is free & voluntary. A flash of an oncoming vehicles headlights causes instant speed awareness.
It would probably be cheaper & more effective to use unmarked cars & AA members to flash exuberant motorists than set up speed cameras.

[Smifffy]

It's ironic that the most effective technique I have seen for reducing speed is free & voluntary. A flash of an oncoming vehicles headlights causes instant speed awareness.
It would probably be cheaper & more effective to use unmarked cars & AA members to flash exuberant motorists than set up speed cameras.

By the same token, a bunch of vans parked on the side of the road, without even a camera in them would slow people down.

Then again people would just ignore it, knowing it isn't a camera, because it isn't hiding in the bushes at the end of a long straight.

[george formby]

By the same token, a bunch of vans parked on the side of the road, without even a camera in them would slow people down.

Then again people would just ignore it, knowing it isn't a camera, because it isn't hiding in the bushes at the end of a long straight.

A village in my home county in the UK had a cardboard copper as you came into the village. This was replaced with the real thing now & again to keep everybody on their toes. The speed of traffic through the village plummeted.

I think their are a lot of alternatives available to make drivers more aware of their speed other than plain old enforcement which is the question posed by the OP. Revenue or safety?

[jasonu]

A village in my home county in the UK had a cardboard copper as you came into the village. This was replaced with the real thing now & again to keep everybody on their toes. The speed of traffic through the village plummeted.

I think their are a lot of alternatives available to make drivers more aware of their speed other than plain old enforcement which is the question posed by the OP. Revenue or safety?

On the outskirts of La Pine, a town south of me on HWY 97 there has been an ex state trooper Crown Vic parked in front of a timber business for atleast the 10 years I have lived here. Everytime I see it I think oh fuck and check my speed eventhough I know it is coming up and I mostly keep within the 15mph 'safe no ticket zone'.

[george formby]

On the outskirts of La Pine, a town south of me on HWY 97 there has been an ex state trooper Crown Vic parked in front of a timber business for atleast the 10 years I have lived here. Everytime I see it I think oh fuck and check my speed eventhough I knew it was there and I mostly keep within the 15mph 'safe no ticket zone'.

Exacary, keeping your average motorist on their toes & aware of their speed seems like a better safety technique than fining them for inattention & consequently directing drivers attention to look for speed cameras not hazards. It's created a cat & mouse game not a safer driving / riding attitude.
I also think most road users would respond better being made to feel responsible rather than feeling persecuted.

[baptist]

It's ironic that the most effective technique I have seen for reducing speed is free & voluntary. A flash of an oncoming vehicles headlights causes instant speed awareness.
It would probably be cheaper & more effective to use unmarked cars & AA members to flash exuberant motorists than set up speed cameras.

So true, as soon as you see head lights flashing you do slow down... but that means a reduction in issued tickets doesn't it? Funny that flashing head lights cause traffic to slow down and yet before i moved to NZ we were pinged by a cop because the guys car I was in flashed oncoming cars - one was an unmarked cop car who turned around and lit up, he got the right hump (no ticket though) and told us we were allowing speeders to get away with it (wow we must have been aiding and abetting:eek:), so flashing headlights must work...


A village in my home county in the UK had a cardboard copper as you came into the village. This was replaced with the real thing now & again to keep everybody on their toes. The speed of traffic through the village plummeted.

I think their are a lot of alternatives available to make drivers more aware of their speed other than plain old enforcement which is the question posed by the OP. Revenue or safety?

I used to pass a cardboard cop car on the A303 on the way to Devon from London on my weekly night commute... in the dark it looked the real thing in head lights, even though I knew it was there I always slowed down!!!!!

[Berries]

Some say they only collect revenue from people breaking the law. I have always been of the view that if you got flashed by a speed camera you deserved it for being unobservant.

What I have just seen though is clearly just for the $$$$. There is an A&P show in Mosgiel today. To get there you go down the main street in Mosgiel, which is narrow and very busy. Road opens up, nice and wide, still a 50 before it hits an 80km/h speed limit. Shiny new Hyundai speed camera van parked facing the traffic heading to the show where the speed limit is still 50, but you are getting close to the 80. Never seen a camera on that stretch before. Most people driving that way won't be regulars, maybe today is the only day of the year they do so. Sod all crash history, certainly nothing speed related. So in a week or two they will get a ticket in the post. It has done absolutely nothing to make the road safer today, when it is much busier than normal, it is pure revenue gathering. I wouldn't be surprised if later on the driver moves to the other side of the road to catch everyone coming back from the show.

Until such time as speed cameras give demerits rather than fines they can only be seen as revenue gathering when they operate 'hidden' like this. A marked HP car at the side of the road would have been busy enough looking at the state of some of the vehicles going to the show, and its presence would have been noticed by everybody.

[Highlander]

not really hidden, I could see it by the third pic, which, judging by the distance would give you plenty of time to have a brake/speed check.....

I saw it well enough in advance.


.... I also assisted the van in getting the slow down message across, while I was stopped there. :niceone:

I read in one of his Southern Cross reports where Jantar stopped to remove his wet weather gear in the way of the camera staying just long enough for his riding mates to go past. Have done that myself since then (normally I'm at the back of the group though).

[bluebird]

Any resemblance of road safety being a real priority has been undermined by the blatant revenue gathering, I got a ticket for doing 70 in a 50 zone industrial area on the outskirts of a small town within 500m of a 100 sign, I explained that I thought it was a 70 as most non residential areas like that are, but the cats arse cop just loved the kill. It's a sport to them.

[Jantar]

...I read in one of his Southern Cross reports where Jantar stopped to remove his wet weather gear in the way of the camera staying just long enough for his riding mates to go past. Have done that myself since then (normally I'm at the back of the group though).

It was Blackbird who stopped while Mangel and myself rode past.

[george formby]

Some say they only collect revenue from people breaking the law. I have always been of the view that if you got flashed by a speed camera you deserved it for being unobservant.

What I have just seen though is clearly just for the $$$$. There is an A&P show in Mosgiel today. To get there you go down the main street in Mosgiel, which is narrow and very busy. Road opens up, nice and wide, still a 50 before it hits an 80km/h speed limit. Shiny new Hyundai speed camera van parked facing the traffic heading to the show where the speed limit is still 50, but you are getting close to the 80. Never seen a camera on that stretch before. Most people driving that way won't be regulars, maybe today is the only day of the year they do so. Sod all crash history, certainly nothing speed related. So in a week or two they will get a ticket in the post. It has done absolutely nothing to make the road safer today, when it is much busier than normal, it is pure revenue gathering. I wouldn't be surprised if later on the driver moves to the other side of the road to catch everyone coming back from the show.

Until such time as speed cameras give demerits rather than fines they can only be seen as revenue gathering when they operate 'hidden' like this. A marked HP car at the side of the road would have been busy enough looking at the state of some of the vehicles going to the show, and its presence would have been noticed by everybody.

Yeah, I kind of feel if you get pinged then it's your own fault. At least 90% of my riding is at the speed limit or less depending on the conditions & I'm very, very selective about the other 10% but it really rips my nightie being barraged by speed related safety propaganda then seeing speed cameras in positions which do nothing to make the roads safer but everything to make the coffers jingle.
A bit of honesty & lateral thinking from the powers that be would be much appreciated rather than attaching a dollar value to a safety campaign.

[EJK]

if its an camera van and unmanned,whats to srop you breaking in and stealing the camera? :msn-wink::bleh::eek:

Or ductape it. Now that's totally do-able.

[Taz]

A village in my home county in the UK had a cardboard copper as you came into the village. This was replaced with the real thing now & again to keep everybody on their toes. The speed of traffic through the village plummeted.



Which one was more intelligent?

[Max Preload]

The reality is at least the van is visible* (red) so you can go "aww shit" and expect the long envelope in the mail - it doesn't just turn up out of the blue unexpectedly!

*unless you're colour blindRed/green is the most common colour blindness, isn't it? Makes you wonder if the colour choice was whimsical or calculated...

[yachtie10]

Or ductape it. Now that's totally do-able.

ive always thought a paintball gun would be the go

[awa355]

Can you still ask for a photo of the alledged offence? I'd really like a pic of me riding my bike.

[c4.]

Does anyone know of any sucessful defence against a speed camera fine?
Say for example if a hypothetical van with 2 bikes in it was heading sth to hampton downs via the newmarket viaduct at 0645 on a sunday morning, only to discover a cfrappy old people mover with heavily tinted windows, parked in the construction zone was infact, a (hidden) speed camera. Hypothectically speaking.:buggerd:

[Berries]

Does anyone know of any sucessful defence against a speed camera fine?
Say for example if a hypothetical van with 2 bikes in it was heading sth to hampton downs via the newmarket viaduct at 0645 on a sunday morning, only to discover a cfrappy old people mover with heavily tinted windows, parked in the construction zone was infact, a (hidden) speed camera. Hypothectically speaking.:buggerd:
i know of a 100% rock solid defence. Unfortunately your post, which I have now quoted so you can't edit it, nullifies said defence. Bugger.

Look on the bright side though. Both of the bikes were doing the exact same speed as the hypothetical van. If they had had number plates on them you could have been looking at three tickets, hypothetically speaking.

[c4.]

but you misunderstand, it's a hyperthetical (sic) situation:yes:

[Berries]

Sorry, I thought a hypothetical van was one of those Korean things.