Bike dealer problem

[Hurrie]

I just bought a bike from a bike dealer, they claimed that it looked like it had never been dropped. after i paid for it, they sent me close ups of the bike and judging from the scratches on the engine side covers on both sides, the bike has been dropped on more than one occasion. On top of that they told me that shipping from north island to south island would cost $450. i rang up the moving company they used and they told me that standard cost from the location of the bike to my house is $380.
I called the dealer up asking for my $70 back atleast and they said that it's their cut for arranging the shipping of the bike. seriously $70 for calling up and asking them to pick up a bike??

so i was wondering if there was anything i could do to get my money back?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[White trash]

Why the hell would you pay for something before looking at the close up images?

[Hurrie]

yeah stupid mistake, he claimed that the only scratching on the bike was of the right fairing and he sent me pictures of that fairing. but of nothing else

[steve_t]

Do you want all of your money back or just the $70?
Not likely to get your $70 back. It'd be like buying a bottle of coke from the dairy for $4 and then going back saying you can get it for $2.75 from the supermarket and asking for your $1.25 back.
However, if you have emails stating that the bike looks like it has never been dropped and after paying have received photos showing obvious drop damage, you should be able to get your money back as they have misrepresented the condition of the bike. Have they already sent the bike to you?

[Hurrie]

no the bike is still with them, and yeah his first email stated that the bike had never been dropped and in his final call after payment he said that it had been dropped lightly on each side. and i've got the recording of it.

[imdying]

Yeah, give him an option... either return your $70, or he can have the bike back as misrepresentation is covered well and truly by the CGA.

[steve_t]

no the bike is still with them, and yeah his first email stated that the bike had never been dropped and in his final call after payment he said that it had been dropped lightly on each side. and i've got the recording of it.

Ring or email the dealer NOW and tell them to hold off on sending the bike. That's the first thing you should do. The discussion to get a full refund can happen after that. If you decide that the damage is enough that you no longer want the bike, ask to speak to the manager of the dealership and politely explain to them that you paid for the bike under the understanding that it had never been dropped. To receive an email with photos after paying saying the bike had been dropped on both sides is unacceptable and you'd like a full refund. If you have the claims recorded, you have the option of going to Disputes Tribunal in the event that they refuse to refund you your money. They have clearly misrepresented the condition of the bike. I'm sure the dealer will be reasonable if you speak to them politely and don't rant and rave like a crazy person :niceone: Good luck

[Hurrie]

he had already given me $1000 off the bike for that scratch on the right side, and im still happy to get it for that price (provided that its running fine like he claims) and i managed to get him to give me back the $70

[Murray]

he had already given me $1000 off the bike for that scratch on the right side, and im still happy to get it for that price (provided that its running fine like he claims) and i managed to get him to give me back the $70

get some one to check it out before being sent. I am sure a KBer whereever it is would be happy to have a look at it!!

[Hurrie]

get some one to check it out before being sent. I am sure a KBer whereever it is would be happy to have a look at it!!

I had gotten their Mta approved mechanic to do a full check (with a check list) on the bike and everything looks good from his email/call

[blackdog]

he had already given me $1000 off the bike for that scratch on the right side, and im still happy to get it for that price (provided that its running fine like he claims) and i managed to get him to give me back the $70

so what are you whining about again?

[steve_t]

he had already given me $1000 off the bike for that scratch on the right side, and im still happy to get it for that price (provided that its running fine like he claims) and i managed to get him to give me back the $70

He agreed to give you the $70 back? GC!! :niceone:

[cbfb]

Where's the dealer located?

Bugger, I bought a bike sight unseen a few months ago and have been disappointed. Some lessons you learn the hard way I guess, won't be doing that again.

[Hurrie]

i was just pissed off that he gave me the wrong impression about the bike, and yeah it took 2 calls to get him to pay back the $70. it was from waikato yamaha. He said that he didnt notice all the other scratches on the bike untill he took the photo's, which is fair enough but shouldnt he know about what he's selling? especially if i specifically asked him if it had other damage on it?

[steve_t]

Yeah, sounds like an honest mistake on their part. Waikato Yamaha have always been great to deal with in my experience. Again, I don't think they owed you the $70 but it was a nice goodwill gesture on their behalf. Props to them.

Again, the drop damage would be enough to back out of the deal, but it sounds like you must have got a great deal anyway with the $1000 off! Glad it all worked out well in the end :niceone:

[jasonu]

i was just pissed off that he gave me the wrong impression about the bike, and yeah it took 2 calls to get him to pay back the $70. it was from waikato yamaha. He said that he didnt notice all the other scratches on the bike untill he took the photo's, which is fair enough but shouldnt he know about what he's selling? especially if i specifically asked him if it had other damage on it?

Sounds to me like they may have made an honest mistake (that they, as an experienced dealership shouldn't have made) and have made good on the deal. You sound like you are satisfied with the final result.
As for the $70 they charged you for arrangeing the shipping, imagine how long it would have taken you to make the necessary arrangements your 'never had to do that before' self. Calling around to find the best price, investigations into the shippers reputation, sort insurance, $70 bucks sounds fair to me an d you were lucky to get that money back which makes me more think they are wanting to see you right for the incomplete original description. The whole thing could have been avoided if you had requested pictures BEFORE sending $'s or better yet, get someone local and independant you trust to take a look for you.
Maybe now you should be posting some nice words about Waikato Yamaha instead of bagging them.

[Hurrie]

Yeah, sounds like an honest mistake on their part. Waikato Yamaha have always been great to deal with in my experience. Again, I don't think they owed you the $70 but it was a nice goodwill gesture on their behalf. Props to them.

Again, the drop damage would be enough to back out of the deal, but it sounds like you must have got a great deal anyway with the $1000 off! Glad it all worked out well in the end :niceone:

Yeah they were pretty good to deal with and it was awesome for their mechanic to do a full examination of the bike free of charge

[onearmedbandit]

Yeah they were pretty good to deal with and it was awesome for their mechanic to do a full examination of the bike free of charge

Wow I wish all customers were as believing as you when I was in car sales.

[Hurrie]

Wow I wish all customers were as believing as you when I was in car sales.

you dont think they did it?

[onearmedbandit]

Nah I'm sure they did 'check' it over. I can't speak for them, but at the end of the day selling anything is about giving the customer peace of mind and maintaining as much profit as possible. If it was me selling it out of town, I'd definitely offer a 'full inspection' by my own mechanic. Gives the customer peace of mind and allows me to retain control of the inspection, meaning I can present it any which way I want to you.

Did you know when a customer of the AA organises a pre-purchase inspection the AA will not even let the dealer look at the report. We couldn't even get a head start on how the vehicle possibly performed.

[Latte]

he had already given me $1000 off the bike for that scratch on the right side, and im still happy to get it for that price (provided that its running fine like he claims) and i managed to get him to give me back the $70

When you say he had already knocked $1000 off , was that before you came on here and posted this thread?

[Hurrie]

When you say he had already knocked $1000 off , was that before you came on here and posted this thread?

yeah the first thing he told me was that he'd give me 1000 off the original price, later i asked him about the scratch on the right side fairing and he said that it had been accidentally dropped in the workshop and other than that scratch the bike was in "top condition"

[imdying]

He said that he didnt notice all the other scratches on the bike untill he took the photo's
Yeah, sounds like an honest mistake on their part. Fuck me, you bunch of plums... their primary business is selling bikes, they would've looked it over well enough to note obvious damage before they even brought it from where it came from. If they traded it, they would've used that damage to beat the previous owner down. If they brought it, they would've used that damage to beat the previous owner down.


you dont think they did it?I think your perception of a full mechanical check and their perception might be worlds apart. Have you seen the check sheet for the full mechanical check? Keep hold of it, might make some nice ammo if you have trouble further down the road. And that's not a slur on Waikato Yamaha, that's just a generic thing you'd do well to attribute to any sale. You're not their friend, you're just a customer. As OAB says, if you get a report done, make sure it's an independent one.

You sound like you're young, and not old and cynical yet, which is a bit of good and a bit of bad... But these days, if it's not all to my satisfaction, I just walk away. There are thousands of bikes for sale every year, I might as well be buying on my terms. Never fall in love with anything mechanical before ou own it, and always get someone with no interest in it to check it over for you, even if that's just taking a mate along to look at it. Rose coloured spectacles have definitely cost me money before :laugh:

[sondela]

Fuck me, you bunch of plums... their primary business is selling bikes, they would've looked it over well enough to note obvious damage before they even brought it from where it came from. If they traded it, they would've used that damage to beat the previous owner down. If they brought it, they would've used that damage to beat the previous owner down.

I think your perception of a full mechanical check and their perception might be worlds apart. Have you seen the check sheet for the full mechanical check? Keep hold of it, might make some nice ammo if you have trouble further down the road. And that's not a slur on Waikato Yamaha, that's just a generic thing you'd do well to attribute to any sale. You're not their friend, you're just a customer. As OAB says, if you get a report done, make sure it's an independent one.

You sound like you're young, and not old and cynical yet, which is a bit of good and a bit of bad... But these days, if it's not all to my satisfaction, I just walk away. There are thousands of bikes for sale every year, I might as well be buying on my terms. Never fall in love with anything mechanical before ou own it, and always get someone with no interest in it to check it over for you, even if that's just taking a mate along to look at it. Rose coloured spectacles have definitely cost me money before :laugh:

Meh, I bought my beautiful 999 from a dealer in Dunedin sight unseen, and they did a service on it before it was sent, and it was and is perfect, sometimes you just trust people, and they are good people.. the world isn't all bad!

[Waikato Yamaha]

Pictures of 1992 Honda CBR250RR in question.

First picture is the marks from the our apprentice knocking the bike over in the workshop.

[imdying]

sometimes you just trust people, and they are good people.. the world isn't all bad!Meh, it's your money.

[White trash]

That's one mint bike for a 19 year old machine.

[onearmedbandit]

Pictures of 1992 Honda CBR250RR in question.

First picture is the marks from the our apprentice knocking the bike over in the workshop.

Definitely scratches on both sides of the engine, I take it that didn't happen when the apprentice dropped it?

[p.dath]

Pictures of 1992 Honda CBR250RR in question.

First picture is the marks from the our apprentice knocking the bike over in the workshop.

Looks in pretty good condition to me. I wouldn't be worried about scratches that minor on a 19 year old bike. Remember - it's 19 years old!

[Hurrie]

That's one mint bike for a 19 year old machine.

Yeah!!! i cant wait to get it :D


Definitely scratches on both sides of the engine, I take it that didn't happen when the apprentice dropped it?

yeah thats what i thought too but i guess a good paint job of the engine covers should do the job, still worth the money for me.

[Taz]

It's always the apprentices fault. BTW that bike looks good for it's age based on the photo's that Waikato Yamaha supplied. provided it wasn't more than 3.5k it'd be a good buy.

[onearmedbandit]

It is a mint looking machine, no argument there. It's what the consumer was told that is the issue. I've got no agenda here, just an interested passer-by.

[Hurrie]

Looks in pretty good condition to me. I wouldn't be worried about scratches that minor on a 19 year old bike. Remember - it's 19 years old!

lol yeah thats true, the thing that got to me was, i didnt wanna buy a bike unseen from a private sale because i was guaranteed a surprise. thats why i went to the dealer so i expected them to be upfront about everything. so it was just a surprise that after i paid for it a get an email (for deliver insurance purposes) with those photos.

But he called me up this morning and was actually pretty awesome about the whole thing, he even offered to throw in a free helmet but since i've already gotten that he's giving me some sweet deals on the rest of the gear!!

So even if they do make mistakes now and then they've clearly tried to do their best to make up for it and they have!

[Hurrie]

It's always the apprentices fault. BTW that bike looks good for it's age based on the photo's that Waikato Yamaha supplied. provided it wasn't more than 3.5k it'd be a good buy.

yeah about 5k......................................... :facepalm: lol but in my defence there weren't any MC22's for sale in the south island, they were all in Auckland, and didnt trust a private sale enough without having a look at the bike first

[Waikato Yamaha]

Definitely scratches on both sides of the engine, I take it that didn't happen when the apprentice dropped it?

Only the marks on the engine case and fairing in the first pic are from the apprentice.

Cost him a box of beer.

[Taz]

Yeah well if you had to have an MC22 then you have to pay the price I suppose. I wouldn't buy a 19 year old 250 for 5k if you could get a new 250 for 6k or so. Yeah yeah I know it's a CBR and everything else is apparently crap and will make your dick smaller etc but still it's a 19 year old bike for close to a new price.

[Hurrie]

Yeah well if you had to have an MC22 then you have to pay the price I suppose. I wouldn't buy a 19 year old 250 for 5k if you could get a new 250 for 6k or so. Yeah yeah I know it's a CBR and everything else is apparently crap and will make your dick smaller etc but still it's a 19 year old bike for close to a new price.

yeah i know its a bit pricey buy i had to have an MC22, i've had the MC17 and MC19 and wanted the MC22 to finish it off lol and sorry but none of the new bikes make the same insane sound that bike makes

[pzkpfw]

I had gotten their Mta approved mechanic to do a full check (with a check list) on the bike and everything looks good from his email/call

That sounds like when I bought my first house.

I used the lawyer convieniently located in the real estate agents office...

[Genie]

Well, well, aren't you the fortunate one. Poor Waikato bike shop....what a nice bunch they must be to credit you the $70....don't' think they've made any money off your deal...hope they can pay the power bill, stay in business and still feed the family. they did you a fantastic service to arrange shipping etc...title of thread should read...how to rip off the local businessman.

[Katman]

Only the marks on the engine case and fairing in the first pic are from the apprentice.

Cost him a box of beer.

The horizontal scrapes on the engine cover don't look as though they happened at the same time as the vertical scratches on the fairing.

[onearmedbandit]

Well, well, aren't you the fortunate one. Poor Waikato bike shop....what a nice bunch they must be to credit you the $70....don't' think they've made any money off your deal...hope they can pay the power bill, stay in business and still feed the family. they did you a fantastic service to arrange shipping etc...title of thread should read...how to rip off the local businessman.

I've shipped cars around the country, always charged the quoted rate by the shipping firm. It isn't hard for the client to ring and check the price themselves, and it's more of a goodwill gesture (from the dealer) rather than a service to make a profit from.

[Hurrie]

The horizontal scrapes on the engine cover don't look as though they happened at the same time as the vertical scratches on the fairing.

yeah i know, hopefully the damage is only cosmetic and the bike runs fine

[Berries]

Meh, I bought my beautiful 999 from a dealer in Dunedin sight unseen, and they did a service on it before it was sent, and it was and is perfect, sometimes you just trust people, and they are good people.. the world isn't all bad!
I wonder if that is the same one I chucked up the Manuka Gorge ? :innocent:

[bombsquad]

provided it wasn't more than 3.5k it'd be a good buy.

Had a chuckle when i read this, the price they had it on the floor for made me do a double take when i browsed the showroom awhile ago. But as you say its a 22 and you need it to pull rediculous revs and feel like your not on a 250 :bleh: and it did seem like a very tidy bike.

[Gibbo89]

Well, well, aren't you the fortunate one. Poor Waikato bike shop....what a nice bunch they must be to credit you the $70....don't' think they've made any money off your deal...hope they can pay the power bill, stay in business and still feed the family. they did you a fantastic service to arrange shipping etc...title of thread should read...how to rip off the local businessman.

Lol, what a load of bollocks.

[Hurrie]

Had a chuckle when i read this, the price they had it on the floor for made me do a double take when i browsed the showroom awhile ago. But as you say its a 22 and you need it to pull rediculous revs and feel like your not on a 250 :bleh: and it did seem like a very tidy bike.

lol yeah they are pretty pricey for a 250 especially a second hand one thats 21 years old

[Hurrie]

Lol, what a load of bollocks.

lol i know right? and as i said before i was still more than happy to pay the same price for that bike even with all the unexpected scratches, i just would have preferred to know about them upfront rather than find out after i paid for it. and the guy was pretty understanding about the whole thing when he rang me up yesterday and told me that he put himself in my shoes and that if he had bought a bike unseen and than received photo's of all the actual damage on the bike he would have been pissed off too. wouldn't anyone??

[Gibbo89]

lol i know right? and as i said before i was still more than happy to pay the same price for that bike even with all the unexpected scratches, i just would have preferred to know about them upfront rather than find out after i paid for it. and the guy was pretty understanding about the whole thing when he rang me up yesterday and told me that he put himself in my shoes and that if he had bought a bike unseen and than received photo's of all the actual damage on the bike he would have been pissed off too. wouldn't anyone??

Yip, sounds like they are good guys. Made a bit of a fuck up at the start of this purchase but have come through well. They've hooked you up with the $70 and a deal on some type of gear. So good shit to Waikato Yamaha :niceone:

It's good to see dealerships represented on here too.

[caseye]

Sure is, nice work Waikato Yamaha.

[Grasshopperus]

About that $70.

When you use a transporter, their liability for the goods being transported is around $1500 (NZ transportation laws). If you had used the transporter yourself directly and the bike was lost, damaged etc then the amount you would be able to recover would be $1500 (and maybe an irrepairable bike).

By doing it all through the dealer then they are taking all the risk. As someone who's (almost) been on the receiving-end of this situation then I'd say $70 is very reasonable.

If you pay the dealer (for the bike and delivery) and they don't deliver then that's entirely their liability. There's not even going to be a problem, it's their remit and their insurance covers it all.

[Hurrie]

About that $70.

When you use a transporter, their liability for the goods being transported is around $1500 (NZ transportation laws). If you had used the transporter yourself directly and the bike was lost, damaged etc then the amount you would be able to recover would be $1500 (and maybe an irrepairable bike).

By doing it all through the dealer then they are taking all the risk. As someone who's (almost) been on the receiving-end of this situation then I'd say $70 is very reasonable.

If you pay the dealer (for the bike and delivery) and they don't deliver then that's entirely their liability. There's not even going to be a problem, it's their remit and their insurance covers it all.

i asked him about what would happen if the bike got damaged in transit and he said that the delivery company would pay out. Not sure if the dealer would pay anything out though

[caseye]

What Grasshopperous has said is 100% correct.
While Waikato Yamaha were the clients for the transport company, any damage to the bike would have been paid out in full.However if you had done it yourself and not taken out extra cover the amount of $1500 is all that the transport firm is obliged to pay out.
Overall I think you've learned something about buying anything over the net and were lucky enough to strike a reasonable dealer who has sorted your problem admirably.

[onearmedbandit]

What Grasshopperous has said is 100% correct.
While Waikato Yamaha were the clients for the transport company, any damage to the bike would have been paid out in full.However if you had done it yourself and not taken out extra cover the amount of $1500 is all that the transport firm is obliged to pay out.
Overall I think you've learned something about buying anything over the net and were lucky enough to strike a reasonable dealer who has sorted your problem admirably.

So why wasn't that explained to him when he inquired about it? All he was given was, from memory, 'that's our cut'?

[caseye]

So why wasn't that explained to him when he inquired about it? All he was given was, from memory, 'that's our cut'?

As someone responsible for selling goods to clients and arranging transport of said goods from production to thier place. I used to put a mark up on it, afterall it is a business transaction aqnd does cost to do.On the overall cost of the transporting at $70.00 I think he got a pretty fair deal, when you consider that they take all care and responsability if anything goes wrong.
After the Fact explanations are never easy.

[onearmedbandit]

As someone responsible for selling goods to clients and arranging transport of said goods from production to thier place. I used to put a mark up on it, afterall it is a business transaction aqnd does cost to do.On the overall cost of the transporting at $70.00 I think he got a pretty fair deal, when you consider that they take all care and responsability if anything goes wrong.
After the Fact explanations are never easy.

I will add my 2c, as I stated earlier I've shipped cars up and down the country before to clients, and once the vehicle has left our care it becomes an issue for the carrier and the clients own insurance, which was always carefully explained to them. The client should have arranged their own insurance, covering the vehicle from the moment it leaves the dealership, noting that it being transported. This is the clients responsibility, not the dealers.

No need to charge extra to cover the costs either, it should be absorbed into the deal. Why? Was that $70 worth more to you or the client? Especially when the client can find out the price? That $70 just cost you some reputation.

As I've said, this is just my opinion.

[Hurrie]

if he told me that the additional 70 was for insurance purposes i would have been fine with it, but he said it was his cut. and i called up the shipping company and asked them how much it would cost to get a bike moved for me from waikato to christchurch and the quoted me 380, than i asked them how much they were charging the dealer and the pulled up the file and told me that they were charging them 380 aswell, so unless im mistaken the dealer hasnt paid an additional payment to the shipping company for insurance purposes.

[p.dath]

if he told me that the additional 70 was for insurance purposes i would have been fine with it, but he said it was his cut. and i called up the shipping company and asked them how much it would cost to get a bike moved for me from waikato to christchurch and the quoted me 380, than i asked them how much they were charging the dealer and the pulled up the file and told me that they were charging them 380 aswell, so unless im mistaken the dealer hasnt paid an additional payment to the shipping company for insurance purposes.

I think it is completely reasonable for someone to charge you for a service if you asked them to provide it. You can spend your own time arranging shipping, but you shouldn't expect someone else to do the job for free when they spend their time organising it for you.

[Gibbo89]

I think it is completely reasonable for someone to charge you for a service if you asked them to provide it. You can spend your own time arranging shipping, but you shouldn't expect someone else to do the job for free when they spend their time organising it for you.

Not $70 for a phone call to a company that I'm sure Waikato Yamaha use frequently and most likely know the receptionists name (or whoever answers the phone at those places) off by heart.

$20 sure.

My $0.02

[Waikato Yamaha]

In our defence.

Our usual carrier could not deliver the bike until next week.
Our usual carrier charges us $430 so I round it up to $450 for the time etc involved in getting the bike ready.

After spending about half and hour ringing around trying to find a reputable delivery company I eventually organised a prompt delivery. The bike was picked up this morning and will be delivered on wednesday. We had already agreed on the $450 shipping price. It was always $450. When I realised the company had saved itself $70 I was pretty happy and decided to maintain that as a little bit of extra margin on a pretty tight deal. I mean in this market can anyone afford to give money away? As we had already agreed on a delivery price of $450 I didn't see the harm in this.

Anyway long story short the bike will arrive on Wednesday and your new Diadora boots will arrive tomorrow or the next day.

Enjoy your new ride.

James

[imdying]

In our defence.I don't feel your position needs defending... the OP should have done his research better in the first place (i.e. known how much to ship a bike, had some decent high quality photos taken independently, had a local KBer inspect it, etc etc).

[steve_t]

I don't feel your position needs defending...

Agree. And, James, my missus loves those boots you sold her :niceone:

[Waikato Yamaha]

Agree. And, James, my missus loves those boots you sold her :niceone:

Excellent, glad to hear it! Thanks :niceone:

[Hurrie]

In our defence.

I'd like to apologise for the way i acted, it wasnt really about the $70 it was more the combination of finding out that the bike had infact been dropped a couple of times after i paid for it and that i was being overcharged for shipping. From my point of view it felt like i was being ripped off in more than one way, hence why i wanted something to prove to me that you are a good dealer and that other than the unmentioned scratches on the bike, that it infact ran fine like you said.

The fact that you called me up on saturday morning and explained that you didnt notice the scratches and as a show of good faith you'd throw in a helmet and refund me the 70 made up for it.

Again im sorry that i did not see it from your point of view, and i do appreciate your help with the bike and hopefully its awesome!!

Thanks James!!

[onearmedbandit]

Ah all's well that ends well then. Nice.

[Hurrie]

I don't feel your position needs defending... the OP should have done his research better in the first place (i.e. known how much to ship a bike, had some decent high quality photos taken independently, had a local KBer inspect it, etc etc).

yeah if i was buying from a private sale i would have done that without a thought, but i though that buying from a dealer would be safer and that there wouldn't be any surprises.

[Hurrie]

Ah all's well that ends well then. Nice.

god onearmedbandit what are you doing up at this ungodly hour??? lol

ps. cant wait to get the new cibby out on the track with you!! hopefully this time you can give me some tips instead of doing wheelies all over the place :bleh:

[Genie]

I'd like to apologise for the way i acted, it wasnt really about the $70 it was more the combination of finding out that the bike had infact been dropped a couple of times after i paid for it and that i was being overcharged for shipping. From my point of view it felt like i was being ripped off in more than one way, hence why i wanted something to prove to me that you are a good dealer and that other than the unmentioned scratches on the bike, that it infact ran fine like you said.

The fact that you called me up on saturday morning and explained that you didnt notice the scratches and as a show of good faith you'd throw in a helmet and refund me the 70 made up for it.

Again im sorry that i did not see it from your point of view, and i do appreciate your help with the bike and hopefully its awesome!!

Thanks James!!

Hey James....well put. Bit like your name, in a Hurrie and a bit quick on the conclusions. Dont fret it, it's human nature but it takes a man to front up and say sorry I fcuked up.

[onearmedbandit]

god onearmedbandit what are you doing up at this ungodly hour??? lol

ps. cant wait to get the new cibby out on the track with you!! hopefully this time you can give me some tips instead of doing wheelies all over the place :bleh:

Ha, 2am is normal for me. 5hrs sleep is enough to run on, I was back up at 7. Anyway, definitely keen to help you out sometime.

[imdying]

yeah if i was buying from a private sale i would have done that without a thought, but i though that buying from a dealer would be safer and that there wouldn't be any surprises.Don't worry, I have a list of mistakes I've made as long as my arm. Great learning experience though :laugh:

[Grasshopperus]

Hey Waikato Yamaha, question.

What would you have done if the transporter had lost the bike?

[Hurrie]

Hey James....well put. Bit like your name, in a Hurrie and a bit quick on the conclusions. Dont fret it, it's human nature but it takes a man to front up and say sorry I fcuked up.

:laugh: i'm Mena, i was saying thanks to James. Sorry about the confusion and thanks Genie!

[Waikato Yamaha]

Lost the bike?

Normally if the bike is damaged we claim against the transport company.

Not a common occurance.

[Hurrie]

oh ok, hopefully it doesn't get lost than!! i'm guessing the insurance company will only pay around the $1500 mark right?

[Waikato Yamaha]

Im sure it will be fine.

[Genie]

:laugh: i'm Mena, i was saying thanks to James. Sorry about the confusion and thanks Genie!

and I'm blonde, that should explain everything.

[Genie]

Im sure it will be fine.

Yes it will be, come now young fella this is no time for stress, you have some ridng to do, I hope you're prepared.

[Hurrie]

Yes it will be, come now young fella this is no time for stress, you have some ridng to do, I hope you're prepared.

haha yup fully can't wait!!! :eek:

[caseye]

Want to see some pics of a very Happy Waikato Yamaha Customer beside his newly acquired bike wearing his Nice new helmet in here pretty bloody soon. OK Hurrie.
And as Genie said.
"Dont fret it, it's human nature but it takes a man to front up and say sorry I fcuked up."
Well done , there is always two sides to any story and while both parties may not always agree on how things happened, when both parties can agree that it's sorted to both of their satisfactions, then it's all good , well done for sticking in there and getting this sorted out without it turning inot a mud slinging festival.

[Hurrie]

Want to see some pics of a very Happy Waikato Yamaha Customer beside his newly acquired bike wearing his Nice new helmet in here pretty bloody soon. OK Hurrie.

yeah not too happy with the bike, both fork seals leaking all over the place, brakes need a good flush, petrol tank and exhaust headers couldnt be more rusted, more scratches on the bike than on the photographs he sent me.

[caseye]

Now thats NOT the way to end the day.
Ok,have you talked with them yet?

[Hurrie]

Now thats NOT the way to end the day.
Ok,have you talked with them yet?

he said that the fork seals were fine when the bike left the dealer, didnt comment on the rust or the brakes

[onearmedbandit]

yeah not too happy with the bike, both fork seals leaking all over the place, brakes need a good flush, petrol tank and exhaust headers couldnt be more rusted, more scratches on the bike than on the photographs he sent me.

Ahh not good news. Hope you get a good result mate.

[Gibbo89]

he said that the fork seals were fine when the bike left the dealer, didnt comment on the rust or the brakes

can we see? i know you might not want to do this before waikato yamaha respond or whatever

[Hurrie]

can we see? i know you might not want to do this before waikato yamaha respond or whatever

are you going to the wnr?

[Gibbo89]

are you going to the wnr?

nah mate, waiting for a part from Japan. Can't drive it at the moment

[Hurrie]

nah mate, waiting for a part from Japan. Can't drive it at the moment

alright i'll post up some photos, at some stage tomorrow if not today

[Hurrie]

229974229978229979229976229977

The pics of the rust in the petrol tank and on the exhaust header pipes. one of them is two dents on the petrol tank that weren't mentioned before.

[Hurrie]

If i say that the forkseals were leaking when i got them and he says that they werent when the bike was shipped that its pretty much my word against his and there isnt really much to do about it, is there?

[Edbear]

If i say that the forkseals were leaking when i got them and he says that they werent when the bike was shipped that its pretty much my word against his and there isnt really much to do about it, is there?

It is possible that the bike was tied down pretty hard which may have damaged or blown the seals in transit. In that case, while they may have seemed fine at the dealers, they could have been close to replacement time. I've seen guys uses tie-downs a lot and some really crank them down which makes me wince at the pressure going on the seals. Just a thought...

[steve_t]

If i say that the forkseals were leaking when i got them and he says that they werent when the bike was shipped that its pretty much my word against his and there isnt really much to do about it, is there?

Have you spoken to or emailed someone from Waikato Yamaha?

[Latte]

Have you spoken to or emailed someone from Waikato Yamaha?

Yes he did, (post 81 was the response).

[onearmedbandit]

Have you spoken to or emailed someone from Waikato Yamaha?

See here...


he said that the fork seals were fine when the bike left the dealer, didnt comment on the rust or the brakes

[steve_t]

OK, let me rephrase: Have you told them that you're unhappy with the rust and the dents in the tank?

[AllanB]

Fork Seals - What Edbear said - probably were fine at Waikato and failed under transport compression. Did the bike come with a warranty?

Remember it is 19 years old! Ditto tank, hard to tell in the images but it looks like a bit of surface rust and likely normal for the age and possible number of owners in Japan ........

The scratches on the engine cases can easily be filled or filed out and repainted with a little work.

Header rust - after 19 years I'm not surprised as they have been through a lot of heat cycles! I have seen 3 year old bikes with shitty looking headers. Consider it this way - the shop could have given them a quick blast with a $25 can of exhaust paint to hide it. I'd suggest popping off the plastic and masking the engine and doing just that, heck you saved a grand and got the $70 back so a can of paint is nothing!. It will look better and you'll learn about the bike in the process.

At the end of the day it does look like a clean and tidy 19 year old 250.

My advise is to deal directly with the dealer and not be too quick to bag them on KB until they have had a fair chance to adress any of your concerns.

And



Get out and ride - we are having some good weather!

[steve_t]

My advise is to deal directly with the dealer and not be too quick to bag them on KB until they have had a fair chance to adress any of your concerns.


Eggzackery

[jaffamont]

Why do so many people on go on about going to the dealer before posting things on here? Surely most people are smart enough to wade through the bullshit and form their own opinion.

I think it's bloody disgracefull that the dealer chose to clip the ticket on the shipping, and good on the customer for letting people know. I'm "guessing" that given the dealer threw in so much free stuff afterwards that there was a bit more lolly in the deal they let on. And poor poor pitiful them for having to do an extra half hours work to complete the sale....

Just my opinion, it may well be wrong.

[AllanB]

Why do so many people on go on about going to the dealer before posting things on here? Surely most people are smart enough to wade through the bullshit and form their own opinion.

I think it's bloody disgracefull that the dealer chose to clip the ticket on the shipping, and good on the customer for letting people know. I'm "guessing" that given the dealer threw in so much free stuff afterwards that there was a bit more lolly in the deal they let on. And poor poor pitiful them for having to do an extra half hours work to complete the sale....

Just my opinion, it may well be wrong.


The dealer should be given a fair chance to respond to and or fix any issues with the buyer without a public flogging. It is their good name that is being discussed.

If the outcome is not to the buyers satisfaction then fair enough to comment on KB. But then again as Don Henley sang there are always three sides to a story 'yours, mine and the cold hard truth'.

With respect to 'the lolly' in the sale - what a dealer makes is totally irrelevant in a sale as a buyer always has the right to take their money to another shop. Likewise a shop cutting a very good price to get a sale has little comeback bitching about no margin if they have to fix any issues, it is not the buyers problem if your profit was very low.

A bike shop is there to make money - that's called a profit, that allows them to employ people! The secret is making a profit and keeping customers happy, I imagine that is a hard grind in the current market.

Transport cost - from what I read the shop stated a price that the buyer agreed on prior to the sale. If they added a few $ to cover their time again that is irrelevant if the buyer had agreed to the price. Do the research before agreeing to pay. Lucky to get the $70 back in my opinion and a credit to the shop.

Hopefully the next post in a few days from the OP will be be a positive result.

[Hurrie]

OK, let me rephrase: Have you told them that you're unhappy with the rust and the dents in the tank?

yeah i told him that prior to payment the mechanic on more than one occasion confirmed that there was no rust in the petrol tank and that the exhaust system was in good condition. I told him that i was dissapointed with the condition of the bike and i would like some sort of refund to cover the repairing costs. i'm assuming the carbs are gonna need a good clean too...

When i paid for the bike i paid 5k for a bike that was in "top condition" (aside from a scratch on the left side). There were a few other MC22's on trade me for 4k but i thought it would be safer to buy from a dealer and i wouldnt have any nasty surprises.


Did the bike come with a warranty?

Remember it is 19 years old! Ditto tank, hard to tell in the images but it looks like a bit of surface rust and likely normal for the age and possible number of owners in Japan ........

Header rust


My advise is to deal directly with the dealer and not be too quick to bag them on KB until they have had a fair chance to adress any of your concerns.

No there was no warranty on the bike, and the rust in the tank, i specifically asked if there was any and i was told there wasn't because i seriously couldnt be stuffed going through the trouble of curing it. i've had to do that for my other 2 cbr's. thats the same reason i asked about the rust in the header pipes because i didnt wanna have to fix that aswell. I didnt come on here to bag them, i came on here just to ask for opinions as i've never bought anything from a dealer and was wondering if they're allowed to do what they've done and you guys have been very helpful so thanks!

[Hurrie]

For some reason i had the impression that dealers were supposed to be upfront about every detail of the bike and it was somehow illegal to give a false impression or keep secrets from the buyer.

[onearmedbandit]

I can understand you are very annoyed mate, but it is probably best that you get a full statement from them regarding the situation with the damage on the tank and extra scratches. I agree that the fork seals could have let go in transit. The rust in the fuel tank isn't a good look, and needs to be cleaned out (imo). As for the headers, to be honest that is to be expected on a bike of that age. I sold 2nd cars for about 10yrs, never once told a customer the exhaust might have a little surface rust here and there, but I guarantee they all did.

If they can help either remedy or offer a reasonable explanation of events, you don't want to drag their name through the mud. If however you get the bums rush from them, then it's fair game to vent.

[Hurrie]

The rust in the fuel tank isn't a good look, and needs to be cleaned out (imo). As for the headers, to be honest that is to be expected on a bike of that age.
If they can help either remedy or offer a reasonable explanation of events, you don't want to drag their name through the mud. If however you get the bums rush from them, then it's fair game to vent.

I'm not to bothered about the exhaust headers, they're easy enough to sand down and respray. its the petrol tank that im more annoyed about. it took about 3 days to get my last cbr's tank back to normal. would i have to get the carbs cleaned aswell?

And you're right they havnt really had a chance to give me a reply. They've been pretty awesome so far with the free boots and they gave me the 1000 off the original price (i probably should have asked why though....).

[Hurrie]

I just wanted to clarify that the dealer hasn't had the chance to reply and provide some sort of explanation or anything, and so far he's been pretty good to deal with and very understanding. The reason i started the thread was to ask for opinions on dealers in generals not to bag this one and as you've seen before i've always given him praise where he deserved it and he's come through so far with any short falls with the bike.

[p.dath]

The pics of the rust in the petrol tank and on the exhaust header pipes. one of them is two dents on the petrol tank that weren't mentioned before.

I think your expectations might be a tad high. It is a around a 20 year old bike.

My personal thoughts, just get on it and have some fun. As a new rider there is a pretty good chance your going to add a lot more marks to it anyway.

[onearmedbandit]

I think your expectations might be a tad high. It is a around a 20 year old bike.

My personal thoughts, just get on it and have some fun. As a new rider there is a pretty good chance your going to add a lot more marks to it anyway.

You don't get it do you? It isn't about the age of the bike, it's about the description given by the seller. If you were buying something from sight unseen and you asked for a description listing any damage etc, and I kept shit from you, you'd be upset right?

I'm not saying this is the way this dealer operated, but the question has to be asked doesn't it.

[AllanB]

Are the dents under the seat area? - ie if the seller did not remove the seat he would not have seen them.

Understandable if that is the case HOWEVER as you stated earlier you were told a mechanic had an extensive look over the bike and the dents should have been noted in that evaluation.

Personally I think you have done the right thing buying from a dealer as you will have a good chance at getting a positive result - if you'd gone private you'd be on your own.

Regarding you question on having the carbs cleaned - get on and ride the bike as they are probably absolutely fine, a few good thrashings around the hills will let you know! :niceone: Once you have sucked through a bit of fuel you may consider draining the tank and checking the fuel filter - it's condition will give you a good idea on the tanks internals.


I'm looking forward to bumping in to you over at Little River or similar with a big grin on your face after a ride on your new bike.

[Hurrie]

You don't get it do you? It isn't about the age of the bike, it's about the description given by the seller. If you were buying something from sight unseen and you asked for a description listing any damage etc, and I kept shit from you, you'd be upset right?


Yeah They replied back saying that i should have expected all the extra rust on the bike.


Are the dents under the seat area? - ie if the seller did not remove the seat he would not have seen them.

Understandable if that is the case HOWEVER as you stated earlier you were told a mechanic had an extensive look over the bike and the dents should have been noted in that evaluation.

Personally I think you have done the right thing buying from a dealer as you will have a good chance at getting a positive result - if you'd gone private you'd be on your own.

I'm looking forward to bumping in to you over at Little River or similar with a big grin on your face after a ride on your new bike.

No the dents are just behind the mirror frame on the very front of the tank (so an obvious place really. and it kinda makes me think has the bike had a head on collision of some sort to bend the mirror frame that far back to hit the petrol tank? because the indents look like an imprint of the frame.

They said that i'm being too overcritical and that they'd offer me a full refund of the bike minus the cost of the boots and shipping to chch.

[steve_t]

They said that i'm being too overcritical and that they'd offer me a full refund of the bike minus the cost of the boots.

That's pretty good of them I guess. So...

[Hurrie]

That's pretty good of them I guess. So...

now i guess i have to decide whether to keep the bike or not...

[AllanB]

They said that i'm being too overcritical and that they'd offer me a full refund of the bike minus the cost of the boots.

Not overcritical if the description was as you have previously described. Yes you'll need to make an allowance for it's age, but dents etc are a different matter.

If going for the full refund who is going to pay for shipping it back ........?

A full refund is a very good offer from the shop and credit to them for offering it.

[sil3nt]

now i guess i have to decide whether to keep the bike or not...Seems to me they have blatantly lied about things. So fuck em get your money back.

Will make sure i take the girlfriend shopping somewhere decent...like boyds :whistle:

[Hurrie]

Not overcritical if the description was as you have previously described. Yes you'll need to make an allowance for it's age, but dents etc are a different matter.

If going for the full refund who is going to pay for shipping it back ........?


They'll pay for the shipping back but if i want to keep the bike why dont they just give me that shipping money? that way i can fix up the bike and they wont have to go through the hassle of trying to sell it again...

Is there anything to look out for on a bike to see if it did have a head on collision? so far the only thing im going on is the imprint of the mirror frame on the petrol tank, but should i look out for anything else?

[steve_t]

They'll pay for the shipping back but if i want to keep the bike why dont they just give me that shipping money? that way i can fix up the bike and they wont have to go through the hassle of trying to sell it again...


Again, why are you asking us?

[Hurrie]

Again, why are you asking us?

my bad. so anything i can look for on the front end of the bike?

[steve_t]

my bad. so anything i can look for on the front end of the bike?

I guess you just need to check the forks and frame are true and there are no signs of repairs/damage. If you're really worried, maybe an experienced KBer in Chch could have a really quick look over the bike for you. Someone would probably do it for free but defo for a box of beers or summat :msn-wink:

[Waikato Yamaha]

This is a 19 year old bike where do you start and stop disclosing everything that is not in new condition?? Most normal people can tell by looking at the price to know within reason what to expect. To me you expect everything for nothing..
OK, we are a respected motorcycle dealer (number one Yamaha dealer for 7 years, so the majority trust us and comeback). We have a reputation to up hold. We have to buy and sell new and used bikes this we have no choice. The bike you brought is one of the best examples of a old 250cc sports bike I have seen in 7 years of trading. Other dealers have sold far worse examples for more. Any bike will only sell if the market (customers) agree that is what it is worth, compared to other options. This is how we value them, we look at how much a particular bike sells for (on say trademe) or from past experience. If it doesn’t sell we drop the price. Simple

In your deal after your complaining he gave you
1) $1000 off the bike
2) shipping at cost price
3) a $200 pair of boots

We have been more than reasonable and we cannot do any more. That is why in James’s last email we offered to take it back.

Basically your expectations cannot be met.

Thanks Campbell (Director)

[Hurrie]

This is a 19 year old bike (Director)

He also failed to take a picture of the 2 dents on the tank when i specifically asked him to send my pics of all the scratches and dents on the bike. The two dents indicate that the front of the bike has been collapsed in onto the tank and i've had the bike checked by a mechanic and thats what they said.

[AllanB]

At this stage I think the shop has been very reasonable with it's offer.

You are not happy with the condition of the purchase and they are offering a full refund. I don't see any legal or moral obligation for them to offer any extra.

Chalk it down to experience and be grateful that you are not out of pocket (I bet we could fill many pages on KB with stories of $ lost on bike purchases!).

[Hurrie]

1) $1000 off the bike
(Director)

The 1000 off the bike was prior to any complaints and was given with the explanation that it was for the damage on the left side caused by the apprentice.