50 weight oil?

[nsrpaul]

hi guys

last time I had the matchy on the road castrol gp50 was cheep and plentiful, that was about 4 years ago, cant find it now for love nor money

the alternatives at the bike shop (spectro) are real pricey, any recomendations?

[Voltaire]

Oh no....an oil thread....
My understanding was ball/roller cranks used to 'require' mono grade oil as it " stuck to the balls/rollers better" ( sounds a bit wives taily....
That was the view on bevel ducatis.....

Now it seems to be " any good oil , just change it regularly"
Then you get " don't use car oils as it makes the slutch slip and is not suitable for air cooled motors"
Lately its been pointed out that Mobil make one " for air cooled V twins"...that is good....why being in V should make any difference who knows :msn-wink:

Last time I got 50 it was from Super Cheap a few years back.....um Penrite or summit.
I have a litre of Castrol r on the shelf...smells nice.
Any filtration of just a sludge trap?

I'm picking up a Norton Commando from Blenheim on Friday....I need to look at oils and stuff.:niceone:

[nsrpaul]

the harsh reality for me is my older bikes do buger all ks between changes so I'm not suer fussed
in the norton I run castrol gtx(20/50) its whats recomended in the norton manual (!), its cheap and sure its car oil but theres no gearbox or clutch to worry about so it will be fine

in the matchy (g3l) i used to run 50 weight because i always had and its what it was meant to take, again no gearbox and clutch combined with frequent changes so as long as its not red stamp from the wharehouse I would be quite happy (someone once told me it was watered down, couldnt convince them otherwise)
given the likely 500ks between changes reasonbly cheap is good
as they dont do many ks it tends to get fresh oil if its been sitting for 6 months or more

[Motu]

I'm using Castrol Edge Sport 25-50 in my airhead,it's aimed at the performance V8 market - 2 valve pushrod engines,so I reckon it should be ideal for 2 valve pushrod engines.I had a used oil analysis done on it,and it looks pretty good for the job.Cheap...at Supercheap.

[Flip]

Penrite do a straight 50 motor oil, but its expensive.

I use a valvolene 20W40 mixed fleet truck oil in almost everything these days. Being a truck oil it has a good strong detergent package and should keep all the crap in suspension until it is flushed out. Its also cheap and available to me at a significant discount.

Even the modern vintage oils are sooo much better oils that they were 50 years ago. Its been a long time since I have seen a scuffed piston or even a motor that was full of black crap when it was taken apart. Oil technology has kept up well with the motor development over the years.

Oh don't put synthetic oils in vintage motors as they are not compatible with the old seal materials like natural rubber cork and felt. it has also been suggested, but I don't know if I believe it keep also away from the low ash oils, SH and later again as the low metal detergents may not compatible with old seals.

It's been a while since there has been a good discussion about oils. There is a lot of misunderstanding about oils and what they do, a lot of it is perpetrated by the oil companies marketing departments.

[Owl]

Forbes & Davies distribute "Maxima Maxum 4 Classic", which is a straight 50wt oil. I don't know what the price is, but you should be able to get it through any bike shop.

[Blackflagged]

You can get Motul straight 50 .

[ntst8]

I've been using Penrite in my Nortons, coz Repco is just around the corner and will get the stuff in if they don't have it.
The most important bit is some oil is better than none, new is better than old.

[ntst8]

I'm picking up a Norton Commando from Blenheim on Friday....

You should point it south and quietly ride down to the Norton Owners Club rally at Monowai the following weekend :niceone:

[Voltaire]

You should point it south and quietly ride down to the Norton Owners Club rally at Monowai the following weekend :niceone:

As its a bit of an unknown I just want to get it on to this side of the strait.
Looking forward to riding it up the country, hope the weathers better than this weekend.:eek:

[Motu]

I've been using Penrite in my Nortons, coz Repco is just around the corner

Repco's oil is now made by Penrite - so you can buy Penrite oil at Repco cheaper than you can buy Penrite oil at Repco.

[ntst8]

As its a bit of an unknown I just want to get it on to this side of the strait.
Looking forward to riding it up the country, hope the weathers better than this weekend.:eek:

Yes the rally would be a brave move on an unknown machine, hope it goes well.

[ntst8]

Repco's oil is now made by Penrite - so you can buy Penrite oil at Repco cheaper than you can buy Penrite oil at Repco.

Thanks, i had better read up the Repco spec sheets.

[pete376403]

Does the matchless have a roller bearing crank ? Iused to ride speedway bikes which are roller cranks, initially used castrol R40 because everyone else did, after discussing the engine and use with a Shell technical rep, switched to Shell Rimula X50 monograde which was far cheaper and the crank lasted just fine. (refer this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/archive/index.php/t-2656.html )

I assume Shell still market this product. Also, bevel Ducatis are supposed to use 50wt monograde, so a Duc dealer should be able to supply something

[Quasievil]

I had a used oil analysis done on it,and it looks pretty good for the job.Cheap...at Supercheap.

I assume you had a bunch of test done over a period of time, as you cant tell jack shit from one oil analysis

[Motu]

Got to start somewhere....and there is no point doing a UOA if you keep changing vehicles.The first lot of oil I used in this bike was just some leftovers I didn't intend to carry on with,so the testing starts here.

[Brian d marge]

I'm using Castrol Edge Sport 25-50 in my airhead,it's aimed at the performance V8 market - 2 valve pushrod engines,so I reckon it should be ideal for 2 valve pushrod engines.I had a used oil analysis done on it,and it looks pretty good for the job.Cheap...at Supercheap.

and can I add to the above ..

a good 20/50 is ok , if you need more detergent then a diesel oil will be fine ( can withstand higher loads and has more detergents in it

Fuchs ( silcoline sp is a great oil) , but a straight 50 weight??? , well at running temp it is fine , but on a cold morning its like pushing treacle around your motor

If you are worried about, your engine then modern synthetics are very good ( real synthetics not that modified stuff)

I race my Enfields, they have both a roller big end and a Floating bush ( which I admire )

I run Bp 20/50 and have more trouble with the right hand than the oil,,,( valve touched head in last race ,,,,,,,,)

Stephen

[Voltaire]

I assume Shell still market this product. Also, bevel Ducatis are supposed to use 50wt monograde, so a Duc dealer should be able to supply something

in 20 years I have never run a mono grade oil in my Bevel...or for that matter any of my air cooled VW's.
The manuals both say to, but I suspect multi grade oil was new and un tested...?
Early Bevels had a small big end and no filtration, later ones had a bigger one and sort of filtration.
I fitted a filter to my VW....they have a mesh screen as std and ran a tuned up motor in a Kombi around Europe for 30 000 kms and bearing on tear down some years later were not too bad.
Conclusion...any oil, changed regularly, fit a filter.
I change the Duke oil every 1500 kms and a VW with filter every 5000 kms.

The Duke dealer here does spark plugs for bevels.....and bugger all else, as Ducati are not really the same company as in the 70's.:msn-wink:

[Redmoggy]

Now this was only my understanding from an oil company rep in the UK. Roller bearing cranks don't like modern oils. Basically this is because of the way the balls crush the molecules of the oil. An older oil spec such as API/SG or API/CD or CC is much more appropriate. Using a multi-grade should work just fine. Synthetic oils don't allow cast iron rings to bed in properly with a fresh bore and the friction modifiers in the latest oils will cause your clutch to slip if you have a shared primary.

Just my 2c
Roy

[Flip]

The chemical that they add to make multi grade oils and looks like gorilla snot is not very shear stable. What I mean is it slowly breaks down in gear boxes and bearings. The oil slowly thins because the gorilla snot breaks down.

Oils after SG are approved for use in the new European motors and were developed to not pollute the cats, the problem was the metals that were part of the detergent additive package. I believe that some of the new oils are not as good 'lubricant' as some of the old SG ones. Most of the mixed fleet lubes stop at SG because diesel oils need a good strong detergent package.

The best synthetic oils eg Mobil 1 (and i hate the bastards) are very shear stable and have incredibly high film strength, Mobil 1 makes brilliant gear box oil in boxes that run on motor oil. I have seen BMW motors that did half a million km that still had the hone marks in the bores.

[nsrpaul]

ok, castrol gp50 is still availiable in the uk as part of their classic oils range, but not listed on their nz website

no email contact on their website either:facepalm:

[Woodman]

This is what you want.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/motorcycle-oils/hd_oil

[nsrpaul]

This is what you want.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/motorcycle-oils/hd_oil

thinking it is, have emailed penrite to see if they still do hpr50, if not will order some of that stuff

[Brian d marge]

thinking it is, have emailed penrite to see if they still do hpr50, if not will order some of that stuff

think before you order ...why would you use a straight 50 wt .. I race Enfields and even I dont use a straight 50 , 20 50 / either car or sometimes diesel , the engine is apart quite often ..and I can show you the wear ...nowt

a good quality multi grade is fine ......., 50 /70 ...... I hope you arent going for a ride on a cold morning

ohhh nasty

Stephen

[katben]

first up I'm pretty sure penrite would say use this...

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/classic-car-oil/classic_engine_oils_heavy

the main issue as i understand it with modern multigrade car oil vs older oils is modern oil don't contain nearly as much zink, because kats (in cars) don't like zink. zink is good in motorcycles as it protects from metal on metal wear when all else fails, it seams that in motorcycle engines this happens alot more often than cars (think cams)

as for the idea that roller bearing cranks destroy modern multigrades, haven't herd that one before, but going along with it....

hypoid gear box (manual transmission) oil would probably cope better with the sheering effects of the nasty roller bearings....

and by some magic the rating of gear oil is a different system and the weights are about half or double compared to engine oil, so 70 ish is 30 ish and so on I can't find the link right now

this is from wikipedia

"Most lubricants for manual gearboxes and differentials are hypoid gear oils. These contain extreme pressure (EP) additives and antiwear additives to cope with the sliding action of hypoid bevel gears.

It is extremely important to note that EP additives are corrosive to yellow metals such as copper or brass in bushings or synchronizers. GL1 is the class of gear oils that does not* contain EP additives, so it is the correct gear oil for. Having the same viscosity as 50W motor oil, some owners/operators have switched to this more readily available choice"