Mom on Breakfast TV1

[Maha]

Anne will be appearing alongside Gareth Morgan on TV1's Breakfast show this morning at 7:10am.
The shows producer called yesterday and invited her to appear.
Should be worth a watch.

[ajturbo]

how come stoney's not there?

[YellowDog]

Anne will be appearing alongside Gareth Morgan on TV1's Breakfast show this morning at 7:10am.
The shows producer called yeasterday and invited her to appear.
Should be worth a watch.

Look forward to seeing the clip.

IMO - She's an excellent public speaker.

Perhaps a career in politics ahead !

[Maha]

Look forward to seeing the clip.

IMO - She's an excellent public speaker.

Perhaps a career in politics ahead !

She really is....
First time on TV as President of MAG-NZ....:niceone:
Anne thinks Corin is kinda cute too..

[Ronin]

how come stoney's not there?

They only have 4 hours.

[caseye]

Stoney is not there because he's already on the new MSL don't you guys read anything.Anne is there because she heads up MAG-NZ an organisation totally opposed to the MSL in the first place and they wanted to try and get a bit of a scrap going.
I was very pleased to see that Anne did not bite and that the discussion in stead focused on what ordinary motorcyclists can achieve already without having to go cap in hand to the MSL.
Well done mate, that was absolutely spot on.

[Berries]

Now if Paul Henry had been there he would have mentioned the moustache. My old man always said never trust a person with facial hair, and watching the interview I felt much the same.

Drum roll please.

And as for Gareth Morgan........

:facepalm:......Nice to see cagers getting the blame for bike crashes. Wonder if the levy could be used to make car drivers better ? Now there's an idea.

I want a refund.

[BoristheBiter]

Look forward to seeing the clip.

IMO - She's an excellent public speaker.

Perhaps a career in politics ahead !

For a start she's better than Gareth Morgan.
I can't stand the guy.
Just because he has some money and rides a bike we should all listen to him, What a twat.

[Maha]

The MSL has about as much credence as the Govt asking/taking $23 from our registration and calling it a Kevlar Resource Funding Tax.

[Maha]

For a start she's better than Gareth Morgan ( but thats not hard).
I can't stand the guy.
Just because he has some money and rides a bike we should all listen to him, What a twat.

Mr Morgan says ''if you have a problem with the MSL take it up with the government''..
Cheers Mogy man, might just have to do that.

[Nasty]

Good on her!!!

Interesting article in this mornings Dom

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4565955/Government-picks-Morgan

[MSTRS]

The clip as screened... http://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast-news/breakfast-monday-january-24-4005883/video?vid=4005934

[MSTRS]

Interesting article in this mornings Dom


Once again, the big bleat about the rise in deaths (30 in 2000, 50 in 2010) but TOTALLY IGNORING the doubling in the numbers of motorcycles on the road over the same period.
Of course I acknowledge the high number of deaths (every one is a tragedy), but come on - put it in perspective and report all the facts.

[nodrog]

Somebody tried to choke her, thats a bit rough!

Fanny.

[PrincessBandit]

Thanks for posting the link - I didn't see it on t.v.

Anne certainly comes across well and made her point succinctly. Gareth doesn't do himself any favours with his mumbling bumbling appearance, but I hope that everyone will work together as much as possible for the gains to be made. Surely between the groups dedicated to reducing the motorcycle stats by various means (and educating riders to up their road responsibilities) we can look forward to more of us staying alive and uninjured on the roads.

[NinjaNanna]

Well done Anne, you couldn't get me to appear on TV for love or money - but whilst I sympathise with MAG-NZ and the reasons why it was setup, I'm still going to have my say on this matter.

Based solely on that TV appearance MAGs primary greivance is that MSL is discriminatry, but you know what, Joe Public only remembers that car drivers subsidise bikes by $70 a year already, do you think they care that we are paying $28 a year toward a ring fenced fund for our exclusive benefit? And do you think they care whether the original $70 claims were true and accurate?

The other arguement was that the funding was already available despite the MSL being introduced. If the funding channels are already there through ACC rather than the specific MSL - MAG_NZ would be better advised to push to see that ACC matches the MSL $ for $ instead of unrealistic calls for abolishing it. If they were successful at doing this surely $4m-$5.5m could go a long way towards reducing our accident rates.

And as for the arguement about the extra financial burden, $28 doesn't even cover 1 tank of gas these days.

[DEATH_INC.]

If they were successful at doing this surely $4m-$5.5m could go a long way towards reducing our accident rates.

I have to ask how? More education? for who? we all know the risks / consequences. Better roads? Not even close to covering that. More cops? Don't really wanna go there....
How is money going to fix it?

[Maha]

I have to ask how? More education? for who? we all know the risks / consequences. Better roads? Not even close to covering that. More cops? Don't really wanna go there....
How is money going to fix it?

Getting faces on TV in the guise of advertising Andy.

[oldrider]

Thanks for posting the link - I didn't see it on t.v.

Anne certainly comes across well and made her point succinctly. Gareth doesn't do himself any favours with his mumbling bumbling appearance, but I hope that everyone will work together as much as possible for the gains to be made. Surely between the groups dedicated to reducing the motorcycle stats by various means (and educating riders to up their road responsibilities) we can look forward to more of us staying alive and uninjured on the roads.

Me too!

A bit annoying that a guy who was pressed into motorcycling because his wife is a devoted rider gets to represent us just because he has a lot of dosh!

Well done Anne, you made your points very very well indeed! (be still my beating heart :love:)

[Nasty]

'we are no responsible for putting the levy in place" (GM)

No it was proposed at the meeting at government the day of the Bikoi - with little grumbles. the Fact that BRONZ etc went on to negotiate with this levy in mind therefore allowing an agreed increase to happen seems a little on the nose!

[NinjaNanna]

I have to ask how? More education? for who? we all know the risks / consequences. Better roads? Not even close to covering that. More cops? Don't really wanna go there....
How is money going to fix it?

The single biggest problem that we need to fix is the "It'll never happen to me" mentality.

Everything else stems from that. If people rode as if it could happen to them then the accident rate will come down, it will never be 0 but it will come down. If people rode with it in their mind that yes there could be a pot hole/gravel/large rock/4WD/tractor just around that corner then they will slow down so that they have a bigger safety margin.

If they beleive that it is possible that they will crash either due to their own mistake or that of another road user, then they will gear up to protect their hides.

If they believe that that car truely didn't see them, then they might take more care to stay out of blind spots.

The problem we face is in the attitude of motorcyclists, advertising is effective at altering peoples attitudes, there's literally dozens of TV commercials on the net that are effective in re-enforcing the risks that we face and that they are very real dangers. Also I personally find road side billboards very effective, case in point are the ones that popped up around NZ saying plan your corners.

I openly admit that advertising is not a silver bullet, but there are a number of key problem areas where it would help

All the gear all the time
Sorry mate I didn't see you (look twice for bikes)
Plan your corners don't hug or cut the centre line
Changing road surfaces (diesel, gravel and pot holes)
Returning Riders (bikes are much more powerful)


The money could also pay for motorcycle specific, regularly updated Accident and Fatality signs in rider black spots or "Days since last accident" signs. Surely it would be impossible to ignore a sign that told you just how many riders had died and been injured on that particular stretch of road for it not to affect your mental attitude while riding it.

The challenge is to change attitudes, advertising and the funds to deliver it is a great start to that.

[davebullet]

Somebody tried to choke her, thats a bit rough!

Fanny.

Yeah - saw that too. About 3 mins in a pair of hands wandered into shot. Realising there would be photo evidence of the attempted assault - they backed away.

[davebullet]

I'd spend $1m of it subsidising motorcycle training days - targetting the at risk groups.

How about making attending a crash scene mandatory to get your full license?

[HappyGOriding]

So besides from a $28 increase and a few extra signs and the odd ad campaign porbably not much will change


I'd spend $1m of it subsidising motorcycle training days - targetting the at risk groups.

And who are the percevied "at risk group" I thought that it was all of us silly enough to ride one of those dang two wheeled contraptions

[DEATH_INC.]

The single biggest problem that we need to fix is the "It'll never happen to me" mentality.

But, that goes hand in hand with the 'It's his/her/their fault'.
You're talking about changing people's attitudes towards life in general.
Good luck. :niceone:

[NinjaNanna]

But, that goes hand in hand with the 'It's his/her/their fault'.
You're talking about changing people's attitudes towards life in general.
Good luck. :niceone:

"It'll never happen to me" doesn't give a shit about who's fault it is/was.

But your point is a good one, the ads (particularly ATGATT ones) should go both ways, ones where it is and isn't the riders fault.

The result is still the same years of skin grafts for the rider.

[Mom]

Well that was fun. I must admit to being a tad nervous and not having any real idea what the questions were going to be did not help, but I think I did ok. It was supposed to be a 10 minute interview which would have given me a bit more time to elaborate on my answers but that is how the cookie crumbled on the day.

Took two very excited 14 year olds with me, I think they were more nervous than me. They had the best time in the green room, what a cool buzz for them to experience.

[Toaster]

For a start she's better than Gareth Morgan ( but thats not hard).
I can't stand the guy.
Just because he has some money and rides a bike we should all listen to him, What a twat.

Well said. Couldn't agree more!

[Toaster]

Well that was fun.

When is the movie coming out??!!:bleh:

[FJRider]

Well done Mom ...

And as ... "It'll never happen to me" and "It wasn't my fault" are more than often the same people ... with the belief that without blame, means without injury.

Education of/for all motorcyclists ... not just the learners.

ACC subsidised safety gear for learners might help too ...

[FJRider]

When is the movie coming out??!!:bleh:

Apparently ... you haven't made it untill you appear on Shortland street ... :msn-wink: :eek:

[Katman]

The single biggest problem that we need to fix is the "It'll never happen to me" mentality.



That, and the "I don't give a fuck whether my actions impact adversely upon you" attitude.

[StoneY]

how come stoney's not there?

Paul from TVNZ decided we (read BRONZ) are not militant enough to attend, they only wanted 'anti MSL' Motorcycle rep to 'spar' with Gareth

Sensationalist journalism at its best, way to go Breakfast!

[Ocean1]

Returning Riders (bikes are much more powerful)


If the bullshit's repeated often enough then even non-morons can be made to believe it.

According to the numbers that age group is under-represented in the crash stat's. Allegations to the contrary, (by those who actually do know better) ignore the wee fact that there's a deal more of 'em and that their numbers have grown faster than any other group.

The crashingest age group is the under 20's, followed by the under 30's. Why don't we do that Victorian thing, ('cause they know about shit like this apparently) and give all the wee kiddies a step-through until they get to 40 odd.

[FJRider]

That, and the "I don't give a fuck whether my actions impact adversely upon you" attitude.

and little thought is given as to how and why ... when it does ...

[Mom]

Yeah - saw that too. About 3 mins in a pair of hands wandered into shot. Realising there would be photo evidence of the attempted assault - they backed away.

I think they were concerned that my earpiece was falling out at the time. All was under control though, must admit it gave me a bit of a start at the time until I realised what it was. All good stuff.

[Katman]

and little thought is given as to how and why ... when it does ...

We largely find ourselves in the position that we do today because for too long far too many motorcyclists have chosen to ride "however the fuck I like" regardless of the fact that their actions were always going to impact adversely on the rest of us.

The only division that should be happening within motorcycling is that the responsible among us should be telling the idiots among us to pull their fucking heads in.

[FJRider]

We largely find ourselves in the position that we do today because for too long far too many motorcyclists have chosen to ride "however the fuck I like" regardless of the fact that their actions were always going to impact adversely on the rest of us.

The only division that should be happening within motorcycling is that the responsible among us should be telling the idiots among us to pull their fucking heads in.

The "Bad Boy(Girl)" image that the majority of "Joe Public" hold, I see as the reason for motorcyclists bad rep. The few idiots just reinforce this mentality ... and more will try to ..

[wysper]

ACC subsidised safety gear for learners might help too ...

This I like. A good idea indeed.

[Edbear]

I think they were concerned that my earpiece was falling out at the time. All was under control though, must admit it gave me a bit of a start at the time until I realised what it was. All good stuff.

A shame there wasn't the time to elaborate. As stoney said, it was sad that it did appear they wanted a stoush between you and Gareth. I've got nothing against him myself, I do think he cares about the issue. Maybe he wasn't aware of what MAG NZ is all about and doing?

[NinjaNanna]

Paul from TVNZ decided we (read BRONZ) are not militant enough to attend, they only wanted 'anti MSL' Motorcycle rep to 'spar' with Gareth

Sensationalist journalism at its best, way to go Breakfast!

And credit is due to Gareth for shutting that down right from the start, his comment that they didn't ask for MSL - but they now have the job of directing how it is spent effectively squashed any hope TVNZ may have had that this would turn into a shit fight.

I also found it informative that the Levy does not fund its own administration - in my view this is a show of goodwill from ACC and the Government.

[Swoop]

So besides from a $28 increase and a few extra signs and the odd ad campaign probably not much will change
There will be lots of change! Committee’s will be formed, people will sit and talk and bureaucracy will be happy. Hopefully a few shekels will trickle down to the real road users.

the "I don't give a fuck whether my actions impact adversely upon you" attitude.
Well, your attitude has impeded ALL bikers because of the public bellyaching and whining. The bureaucrats have taken all your whining and public howling (despite your personal actions on the roads) and inflicted it upon everyone. Thanks for giving them ammunition to use against us all.

The only division that should be happening within motorcycling is that the responsible among us should be telling the idiots among us to pull their fucking heads in.
We have been telling you to do just that, for ages.

[StoneY]

'we are no responsible for putting the levy in place" (GM)

No it was proposed at the meeting at government the day of the Bikoi - with little grumbles. the Fact that BRONZ etc went on to negotiate with this levy in mind therefore allowing an agreed increase to happen seems a little on the nose!

Get the FACTS straight please.......... the added MSL ammount was purely negotiated by Ulysses. It had NOTHING to do with BRONZ at all.

BRONZ were shut out completely after the 'bullshit' chant until Anna Long Injury prevention Manager involved us in the MSL steering Group.

[NinjaNanna]

For a start she's better than Gareth Morgan.
I can't stand the guy.
Just because he has some money and rides a bike we should all listen to him, What a twat.

Got any ideas on who might be better suited?

It takes a fair amount of intelligence and the ability to see big picture principles as well as attention to detail to make the sort of money that guy has. I'd say he's better equiped than most riders to oversee and help direct how a few million of our dollars is spent. Well better than most I'd say.

[MSTRS]

Get the FACTS straight please.......... the added MSL ammount was purely negotiated by Ulysses. It had NOTHING to do with BRONZ at all.

BRONZ were shut out completely after the 'bullshit' chant until Anna Long Injury prevention Manager involved us in the MSL steering Group.


The fact that Les emerged from that meeting looking a little like he'd had a shit sandwich with Nick the Prick would seem to bear that out. But why did he cease all talk of continuing opposition to any increase? That lack of words seemed very damning to the rest of us...like he'd been bought. Or something.
See why we don't trust anything said around this issue?

[Katman]

Well, your attitude has impeded ALL bikers because of the public bellyaching and whining. The bureaucrats have taken all your whining and public howling (despite your personal actions on the roads) and inflicted it upon everyone. Thanks for giving them ammunition to use against us all.



Yeah, you're right - it's all my fault.

[DEATH_INC.]

Yeah, you're right - it's all my fault.
No, you got it wrong...it goes 'it's not MY fault' :niceone:

[YellowDog]

I don't really like GM's presentability.

He doesn't come across well.

But I do think that he raised some important issues over the reasons for Motorcycle accidents.

[PrincessBandit]

... TVNZ decided we (read BRONZ) are not militant enough to attend,...

So Mom was there instead?? chihuahuas of the world unite!!


(from one to another...)

[Nasty]

Get the FACTS straight please.......... the added MSL ammount was purely negotiated by Ulysses. It had NOTHING to do with BRONZ at all.

BRONZ were shut out completely after the 'bullshit' chant until Anna Long Injury prevention Manager involved us in the MSL steering Group.

My facts are straight ... it was proposed in that meeting. Ulysses may have negotiated the $$ dealing ... but bronz did jump on board. MAG stood up and said no to the Levy full stop.

That is the reason they were asked to TVNZ ... BRONZ is on board ... MAG is not ... its not that they didn't want you - they had you in the form of Gareth Morgan the chair of the committee.

[StoneY]

My facts are straight ... it was proposed in that meeting. Ulysses may have negotiated the $$ dealing ... but bronz did jump on board. MAG stood up and said no to the Levy full stop.

That is the reason they were asked to TVNZ ... BRONZ is on board ... MAG is not ... its not that they didn't want you - they had you in the form of Gareth Morgan the chair of the committee.

MAG did not even exist in NZ then so when did they say no? Long after the fact of its creation, and one week after I explained there was NO BUCKET of money to be grabbed.
You cant credit MAG with ANYTHING to do with the negotiations at BIKEOI whatever the AAG and WAG happened to do prior to and on the 17th of November 2009.

Very creative effort tho

[MSTRS]

Kari - have another read of post 45. MAG didn't exist back then. But BRONZ, in the form of Les Mason, was in that initial meeting, on the 17th Nov, while the rest of us stood in the grounds of Bullshit Castle.
It is how Les behaved afterwards that had really distasteful flavour. And since then, one can only speculate as to his absence on KB...

We will see the exact same crap (nasty deals and decisions behind closed doors) with National's proposed changes to the legislation re Foreshore/seabed...

[Nasty]

Kari - have another read of post 45. MAG didn't exist back then. But BRONZ, in the form of Les Mason, was in that initial meeting, on the 17th Nov, while the rest of us stood in the grounds of Bullshit Castle.
It is how Les behaved afterwards that had really distasteful flavour. And since then, one can only speculate as to his absence on KB...

We will see the exact same crap (nasty deals and decisions behind closed doors) with National's proposed changes to the legislation re Foreshore/seabed...

No one said that they exisited then .. sorry to confuse ... One of the founding things for MAG has been No motorcycle Levy - which is why they were invited on tv I presume. didn't credit them with anything - just with forming and one of the platforms being no to the levys - and they have stuck with it so far. You are right about underhanded dealings and i think all of us were partially screwed over.

[BMWST?]

linkety link (http://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast-news/motorcycle-safety-council-waste-money-5-07-video-4005934)

[Nasty]

My facts are straight ... it was proposed in that meeting. Ulysses may have negotiated the $$ dealing ... but bronz did jump on board. MAG stood up and said no to the Levy full stop.

That is the reason they were asked to TVNZ ... BRONZ is on board ... MAG is not ... its not that they didn't want you - they had you in the form of Gareth Morgan the chair of the committee.


MAG did not even exist in NZ then so when did they say no? Long after the fact of its creation, and one week after I explained there was NO BUCKET of money to be grabbed.
You cant credit MAG with ANYTHING to do with the negotiations at BIKEOI whatever the AAG and WAG happened to do prior to and on the 17th of November 2009.

Very creative effort tho

I did not credit mag except standing against the levy ... you over read again stoney. it said mag has stood up and is against the levy. there was no bucket of money ... that they exist now and are well enough to get invited onto TV is a credit to them though.

[BMWST?]

Kari - have another read of post 45. MAG didn't exist back then. But BRONZ, in the form of Les Mason, was in that initial meeting, on the 17th Nov, while the rest of us stood in the grounds of Bullshit Castle.
It is how Les behaved afterwards that had really distasteful flavour. And since then, one can only speculate as to his absence on KB...

We will see the exact same crap (nasty deals and decisions behind closed doors) with National's proposed changes to the legislation re Foreshore/seabed...

with accusations like that who would hang around?

[MSTRS]

with accusations like that who would hang around?

What accusation? I said nothing that anyone there didn't see/hear for themselves firsthand. After his rhetoric going in, the capitulation was an ugly thing...

[Usarka]

Sensationalist journalism at its best, way to go Breakfast!

After the comment from Corin to email in if you hate bikers i sent some feedback politely telling them to stick their sensationalist crap up their arse and I'd rather watch two cockroaches humping than fry my brain on eggs with their immature televised gossip column.

[StoneY]

... that they exist now and are well enough to get invited onto TV is a credit to them though.

That I do agree on and Kudos to Anne for making her stand known.

There is still some serious misunderstanding in regards this fund tho, and there lies my intention to ensure that its understood no matter who likes it or hates it.

[BoristheBiter]

Got any ideas on who might be better suited?

It takes a fair amount of intelligence and the ability to see big picture principles as well as attention to detail to make the sort of money that guy has. I'd say he's better equiped than most riders to oversee and help direct how a few million of our dollars is spent. Well better than most I'd say.


Someone who is not famous for being famous, he might be good at making money but he comes across as a bit of a patronizing Muppet. Do what i say cause i made some money.

I think there would be a lot more people suited to the job but it all depends on who/how they are chosen.

I would say Mom for a start but (IMHO) it looks like they want some yes people who will say this is a good idea and a reason why they will continue to charge us shit loads for acc levies.

[BMWST?]

It is how Les behaved afterwards that had really distasteful flavour. And since then, one can only speculate as to his absence on KB...



i see a pretty distasteful accusation here.How do you know anything of the mans situation?There could be many many reasons for his absence "on here"Life does not revolve around kb or the people on it.Talk about speculation

[StoneY]

Someone who is not famous for being famous, he might be good at making money but he comes across as a bit of a patronizing Muppet. Do what i say cause i made some money.



He rides thousands of miles internationally each year (ergo see's how it is in other countries as well as NZ)
He knows finance (which was the KEY factor for a chair, it was almost the AA at the head)

Have you ever met him, shook his hand and had a chance to ask him how many and what brandd of bikes he rides/prefers?
Well I have dude.

And as for a Yes man, that he is not and nor is anyone else on the council
He took Nick to task on details right in my presence...and Nick himself did not want yes men

Gareth pushed Nick Smith for a single levy even...you judge the man harshly on nil information....in fact you outright insult his spirit and intelegence

[admenk]

There could be many many reasons for his absence "on here"Life does not revolve around kb or the people on it.Talk about speculation

He might be too busy actually riding a bike to spend much time on KB?..just like the rest of us. :innocent:

[Voltaire]

Good on her!!!

Interesting article in this mornings Dom

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4565955/Government-picks-Morgan

hmmm $2000000/$30 = 66666 bikes.....( in Vincent Price Voice) :eek:....Its an unearthly number....

[Katman]

I will be very interested to see how the MSL is spent. There have been examples posted on here of highly effective advertising campaigns that the Australians have come up with and I would be horrified to see our answer to those ads being more of the 'regaining our man-trol' bullshit ad that New Zealand has recently produced.

Rider training and attitude adjustment must be the focus of any spending that is done.

I am also highly concerned at how a public snubbing of the funds placed at our disposal will make us look to the general public.

[MSTRS]

i see a pretty distasteful accusation here.How do you know anything of the mans situation?There could be many many reasons for his absence "on here"Life does not revolve around kb or the people on it.Talk about speculation

You are right. I don't know his reasons for no longer posting here.
But I do know he was almost violently opposed to any levy increase on bikes, he did go into a meeting with Nick the Prick (along with others), and he did come out of that meeting with a very different 'tune'.
Make of that what you will, but lots of us felt he 'sold out' and of course we will speculate what his 'price' was - especially since little more was heard from him.
I don't wish to impugn Les, but I'm not alone in feeling this way. Nor in feeling the whole MSL thing is a great big steaming pile of...

[martybabe]

Back to the TV segment... I think both sides did well, Mom put over the ongoing message that the levy is outrageously high and discriminatory and mustacheo man got over the point that something has to be done to reduce the Motorcycle road toll.

Reduced deaths and reduced levies are both winners in my book but you can't blame people for being sceptical about the MSL, we have been royally shafted by this government and the ACC creative accounting department.

Lets be Open here, Nick Smith and his Cronies are not above bare faced lying so any group working alongside him are bound to be met with a certain amount of suspicion.

Prove the doubters wrong MSL and stand up for motorcyclists by doing the job on our behalf not the government piggy bank and you will surely have my support.

Mom already has it of course:love:

[Ocean1]

I am also highly concerned at how a public snubbing of the funds placed at our disposal will make us look to the general public.

Placed at our disposal?

Tell you what, tell them to stick it up their arse and give it back to the people they took it off eh?

[BMWST?]

You are right. I don't know his reasons for no longer posting here.
But I do know he was almost violently opposed to any levy increase on bikes, he did go into a meeting with Nick the Prick (along with others), and he did come out of that meeting with a very different 'tune'.
Make of that what you will, but lots of us felt he 'sold out' and of course we will speculate what his 'price' was - especially since little more was heard from him.
I don't wish to impugn Les, but I'm not alone in feeling this way. Nor in feeling the whole MSL thing is a great big steaming pile of...

i got a speculation for you.....he put a lot of effort into bikeoi, he was overwhelmed at the support and perhaps thought we were on the cusp of something extra ordinary,but the result was nothing more than political bullshit.He was bitterly disapointed and has taken a step back.
Your suggestion is nothing short of libellous.This is my last response to your statement.Unless you got some sort of proof for your man on the knoll theory i suggest it is your s too.

[FJRider]

I will be very interested to see how the MSL is spent. There have been examples posted on here of highly effective advertising campaigns that the Australians have come up with and I would be horrified to see our answer to those ads being more of the 'regaining our man-trol' bullshit ad that New Zealand has recently produced.

Rider training and attitude adjustment must be the focus of any spending that is done.

I am also highly concerned at how a public snubbing of the funds placed at our disposal will make us look to the general public.

So ... where ... and how, are requests/submissions made for the use of "OUR" money ...???

Rider training is a start ... but who gets the training to start with ... ???
Obviously not just learners .... as "experienced" riders fall off the road too ...

[Katman]

Placed at our disposal?

Tell you what, tell them to stick it up their arse and give it back to the people they took it off eh?

If you or any motorcycling organisation believes that they can reverse the huge rego increase from a year ago (the whole thing - not just the $30 MSL) then go for your life.

I however, don't see the slightest likelihood of that happening. Therefore, from here we must concentrate on damage limitation and ensuring that in 6 or 12 months time we're not hit with another similar increase.

I feel it's important that we see the MSL as a lifeline we have been thrown. We need to embrace it and use it in an attempt to drag motorcycling back from the brink that it has found itself at.

[Katman]

So ... where ... and how, are requests/submissions made for the use of "OUR" money ...???

Rider training is a start ... but who gets the training to start with ... ???
Obviously not just learners .... as "experienced" riders fall off the road too ...

Personally, one of the things I most want to see some of the funds used for is to formulate and initiate a specific defensive riding course that is created by motorcyclists for the direct benefit of motorcyclists (scooter riders included).

The current defensive riding course, which appears to be devoid of motorcycle specific skills, sounds like a total farce.

[StoneY]

Prove the doubters wrong MSL and stand up for motorcyclists by doing the job on our behalf not the government piggy bank and you will surely have my support.

Mom already has it of course:love:

Best post yet.
Fair call.

Judge me and the other appointee's in 2 years when our term is up
Cheers
I'm out of this thread now .......nothing more to say...except Katman's making good sense here too (yep..I said it!)

[DEATH_INC.]

Personally, one of the things I most want to see some of the funds used for is to formulate and initiate a specific defensive riding course that is created by motorcyclists for the direct benefit of motorcyclists (scooter riders included).

The current defensive riding course, which appears to be devoid of motorcycle specific skills, sounds like a total farce.
Shit. This makes a bit of sense. A compulsory motorcycle specific defensive drivers (riders) course. That may work.

[FJRider]

Personally, one of the things I most want to see ...

The current defensive riding course, which appears to be devoid of motorcycle specific skills, sounds like a total farce.

Not an answer to my question ... So ...I guess you dont know ...

There are Qualified Motorcycle riding instruction organisations in place throughout the country NOW, who ARE qualified to provide the specific skills you mention. Has anybody asked THEM for input ... ???

Or ... is it only personal agenda's planned ... by those in the position to make the agenda's ... ???

[Katman]

Shit. This makes a bit of sense. A compulsory motorcycle specific defensive drivers (riders) course. That may work.

I wasn't game enough to use the word compulsory but now that you've used it - fuck yeah!

[Katman]

There are Qualified Motorcycle riding instruction organisations in place throughout the country NOW, who ARE qualified to provide the specific skills you mention. Has anybody asked THEM for input ... ???



There's a big difference between teaching people how to ride and teaching people how to ride defensively.

[riffer]

There's a big difference between teaching people how to ride and teaching people how to ride defensively.

Personally I'd love to see the coppers use Dangerous Driving (or Riding) more often, instead of focusing on velocity. And judges back it up. Compulsory defensive driving courses and no licence back until you can prove beyond a doubt that you've learned what that means.

Better yet, make compulsory attendance and a certain pass level mandatory for gaining the licence.

Also I'd like to see retesting as well. Every time your licence comes up for renewal (every ten years).

[FJRider]

Shit. This makes a bit of sense. A compulsory motorcycle specific defensive drivers (riders) course. That may work.

And/or ordered as well by the courts, for traffic offences (infringements ???)

[DEATH_INC.]

Personally I'd love to see the coppers use Dangerous Driving (or Riding) more often, instead of focusing on velocity. And judges back it up. Compulsory defensive driving courses and no licence back until you can prove beyond a doubt that you've learned what that means.
Yep, as long as they don't get carried away and use it instead of all speeding charges....

Better yet, make compulsory attendance and a certain pass level mandatory for gaining the licence. Yes.


Also I'd like to see retesting as well. Every time your licence comes up for renewal (every ten years).
And yes again, I'd like to see this for cages too.

[riffer]

Yep, as long as they don't get carried away and use it instead of all speeding charges....


I dunno. It could work. There's NO WAY the courts can cope with that amount of cases if the cops charge us with DD instead of speeding - that's why I reckon it would put the acid on them to actually have a reason to give dangerous.

Exceeding speed limit isn't by itself proof of dangerous behaviour. However sometimes, driving or riding at close to (but still under) is dangerous but still legal.

[cromagnon]

Im doing a defensive driving course currently, according to the lady taking it (also the manager of the place) they are in the process of changing defensive driving courses at the moment including the specific car (first licence = teen) course that everyone does at the moment, plus a specific motorcycle and experienced driver courses in defensive driving. It should be mandatory rather than just something you have to do to get time off the licence.

[FJRider]

There's a big difference between teaching people how to ride and teaching people how to ride defensively.

Teaching people to ride properly, with road skills appropriate for the riders level ... is being defensive. Rider training organisations are in place to provide the level of both practical AND theoretical training required. I would be supprised indeed, if those people put their hand up and say they couldn't do it ...

Still not an answer to the questions I asked though ... :innocent:

[Paul in NZ]

Mind you - if there IS money to be spent on safety.... How about a bit of research to see who IS doing all this crashing? Age, sex, bike type?

[Katman]

Still not an answer to the questions I asked though ... :innocent:

Sorry, if your question is "how do you go about submitting ideas for the use of the MSL" my answer is, I don't know.

[FJRider]

Sorry, if your question is "how do you go about submitting ideas for the use of the MSL" my answer is, I don't know.

Perhaps we can ALL start asking questions to those that ARE in a position to answer ...

Thank you for answering as best you could. Personal agendas of some prevent valid answers being given. Either through ignorance or arrogance ... the result is the same ...

My thanks to StonY for your PM ... a few answers ...

[Pussy]

Katman, Death Inc and Riffer....

Good stuff, guys! Love your work!!

[jafar]

Despite what a lot seem to think we are stuck with the MSL, at least for now. :eek:
Nearly $3,000,000 to be spent on reducing the motorcycle related death toll. That is a fair amount of change in anyones language.
That the distribution of these funds is to be decided by people who actually ride & have an interest in motorcycling is forward thinking.:niceone:
Gareth Morgan, Brent & the other members of the committee have a lot of work to do to achieve the goals set for them.
Some have come up with some good ideas so far, we would be better off if we came up with more good ideas to help them achieve what WE want to get from our $30.00:msn-wink:

[FJRider]

Exceeding speed limit isn't by itself proof of dangerous behaviour. However sometimes, driving or riding at close to (but still under) is dangerous but still legal.

If it is dangerous ... it is not legal.

Speed in itself if not the danger ... but the time/place/manner in which it is caught determines the charge ...

[Ocean1]

If you or any motorcycling organisation believes that they can reverse the huge rego increase from a year ago (the whole thing - not just the $30 MSL) then go for your life.
What’s the relevance there? A bunch of professional liars with a vested interest in that course chose to use the opportunity afforded them by a few pathetic toads to rip off a minority. If anyone need be held responsible for that minority’s loss it’s you and your toadying mates.


I feel it's important that we see the MSL as a lifeline we have been thrown. We need to embrace it and use it in an attempt to drag motorcycling back from the brink that it has found itself at.

And I feel it’s important to point out that this whole sentence reeks of a sycophantic ingratiation. Far from any lifeline the MSL fund is in fact the result of a draconian and unjust rort. It shouldn’t surprise me to find you’d like to get your fingers in the till. The brink we find ourselves on has been caused not by those you routinely abuse but you and your grey kowtowing mates. Fuck you.

[dino3310]

Anne will be appearing alongside Gareth Morgan on TV1's Breakfast show this morning at 7:10am.
The shows producer called yesterday and invited her to appear.
Should be worth a watch.

thanks for the heads up bro, watched it on the puta this arvo. good to put another KB face to a name.
well done Anne.

[Berries]

Also I'd like to see retesting as well. Every time your licence comes up for renewal (every ten years).
For all licence holders ? If it was a decent driving test rather than the crap we have now I'd say yes. If you mean just for motorbikes then I would have to politely disagree.

[scracha]

What’s the relevance there? A bunch of professional liars with a vested interest in that course chose to use the opportunity afforded them by a few pathetic toads to rip off a minority. If anyone need be held responsible for that minority’s loss it’s you and your toadying mates.



Hear fucking hear. From my perspective, 30 bucks is another 2 or 3 weeks I'll have to ride dirty to get even (in my own little way). As predicted last year, New Zealand's motorcyclists have rolled over,


I'll say it again.

Epic Fail.

[riffer]

For all licence holders ? If it was a decent driving test rather than the crap we have now I'd say yes. If you mean just for motorbikes then I would have to politely disagree.


Of course for all motorists.

[BoristheBiter]

He rides thousands of miles internationally each year (ergo see's how it is in other countries as well as NZ)
He knows finance (which was the KEY factor for a chair, it was almost the AA at the head)

Have you ever met him, shook his hand and had a chance to ask him how many and what brandd of bikes he rides/prefers?
Well I have dude.

And as for a Yes man, that he is not and nor is anyone else on the council
He took Nick to task on details right in my presence...and Nick himself did not want yes men

Gareth pushed Nick Smith for a single levy even...you judge the man harshly on nil information....in fact you outright insult his spirit and intelegence


Best post yet.
Fair call.

Judge me and the other appointee's in 2 years when our term is up
Cheers
I'm out of this thread now .......nothing more to say...except Katman's making good sense here too (yep..I said it!)

Actually i have met him on a few occasions and i stand by what i said.
I have never insulted his spirit or intelligence (didn't mean if i did), i just don't think he is right for the role but as you say we will see what you have done in the next two years. I hope i am proved wrong. the one thing i do now is our levies will never go down. Car deaths are down have those decreased?

The one that struck me was your other post with the ways of getting funding. Those things should all ready be getting funded by all the rest of the money we pay for roads. you should, as the others have suggested be looking more at the defensive/teaching/up skilling side of it.

For a start a better basic handling test, RRRS before you get your restricted, a longer more in depth test for everyone (all vehicles) when sitting their full.

[BoristheBiter]

Hear fucking hear. From my perspective, 30 bucks is another 2 or 3 weeks I'll have to ride dirty to get even (in my own little way). As predicted last year, New Zealand's motorcyclists have rolled over (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/124600-We-re-watching-you-Mr-Smith.-Protest-27th-June-2010?p=1129787399#post1129787399).


I'll say it again.

Epic Fail.

+1
They have now divided the motorcycle community so round 3 to them.
All the have to say whenever something comes up is "we gave you this and you're still not happy".

[Paul in NZ]

Fuck I'm sick of this.... (yeah yeah - dont read it) This shit just sucks the joy out of having a motorcycle.

I went and entered a surfcasting comp in the weekend with 2 of my girls and partners - it was fun. We knew were wouldnt catch much and the weather was appalling but the people were all decent and it was a fugging laugh...

[MSTRS]

i got a speculation for you.....he put a lot of effort into bikeoi, he was overwhelmed at the support and perhaps thought we were on the cusp of something extra ordinary,but the result was nothing more than political bullshit.He was bitterly disapointed and has taken a step back.


Perhaps you are right. I would prefer that. Or we're both wrong. Probably we'll never know.
However, the chant of "Bullshit!" is still ringing in a lot of ears (mine included) and the smell of bullshit still clings to everything associated with the levy rise, and the MSL.

[Maha]

Gareth Morgan is an Economist first and foremost, that and the fact that he also rides a Motorbike made him the obvious choice to head a committee that will have close to three million dollars to spend on saving bikers lives. It was made known to us before the interview took place that Mr Morgan doesn't necessarily agree with the MSL. But he has been given a job to do. To answers questions as to the viability of such a levy is not part of that job. Possibly that is why he said ''if you have a problem with the MSL, take it up with the government''?

[StoneY]

Gareth Morgan is an Economist first and foremost, that and the fact that he also rides a Motorbike made him the obvious choice to head a committee that will have close to three million dollars to spend on saving bikers lives. It was made known to us before the interview took place that Mr Morgan doesn't necessarily agree with the MSL. But he has been given a job to do. To answers questions as to the viability of such a levy is not part of that job. Possibly that is why he said ''if you have a problem with the MSL, take it up with the government''?

Excellent summary mate.
And he has made quite some sacrifice time wise to take it on....

Kudos to Anne for her stand too, I hope no one mistakes my participation in the council as having 'sold out' or 'feeding from the trough'

I was aksed to participate in forming the governance system, and then appointed to the council, but it was not a smooth ride for ACC and Nick Smith, we seriously held them to account through the whole process and continue to do so

In my heart I totally agree there should never have been a levy raise, ACC should be no fault..... and beer should flow free from my kitchen tap....

But sadly I live in the real world.

[phill-k]

My issue with Gareth Morgan fronting the MSL is he appeared on a show on TVNZ7 alongside the Ulysses man and Garth seemed to be agreeing with Nick Smiths statistics on the increase in Motorcycle injuries and deaths and then went on to make the statement that a lot of those deaths were middle aged born again bikers buying machines that were to big and to powerful for them and that they didn't have the ability to handle them.
As an economist and numbers man he failed to firstly justify his comments or point out the fact that their had been a large increase in registrations over that period. As far as I'm concerned he was working his jaw for the sake of being on TV.
I think Nick has someone one the inside now.

[MSTRS]

My issue with Gareth Morgan fronting the MSL is he appeared on a show on TVNZ7 alongside the Ulysses man and Garth seemed to be agreeing with Nick Smiths statistics on the increase in Motorcycle injuries and deaths and then went on to make the statement that a lot of those deaths were middle aged born again bikers buying machines that were to big and to powerful for them and that they didn't have the ability to handle them.
As an economist and numbers man he failed to firstly justify his comments or point out the fact that their had been a large increase in registrations over that period. As far as I'm concerned he was working his jaw for the sake of being on TV.
I think Nick has someone one the inside now.

Not saying I agree with GM, but...
Just who IS responsible for the 'large increase in registrations over that period'?

Could it just possibly be BABs?

[phill-k]

Not saying I agree with GM, but...
Just who IS responsible for the 'large increase in registrations over that period'?

Could it just possibly be BABs?

I guess they could be, and if that's the case it further supports my point that he was just grandstanding / mouthing off because the babs do not make up the majority of deaths and injuries in the motorbike community.

[Ocean1]

Could it just possibly be BABs?

From the figures I found when I first asked myself that question, no.

The crashingest riders are the youngest, linear progression to the oldest (and safest) group.

No way to isolate BABs even if you were unwise enough to attempt a numeric description. Howeve, it's been my observation that most of 'em retain skill levels beyond the younger ones.

Thing is, the dangerous times is that where you're most deficient in both physical skills and that which we might call roadcraft. You can learn these things only by discovering your limits, and the road's a fucking bad place to learn them.

So all the gum beating about safety on the road has for me missed the point. If we're serious about lowering the death / injury toll then we need to develop places and systems where discovering those limits and learning that lore is safer.

Again: make tracks, encourage interested groups to develop training systems and integrate them into the licence structure. And now that you've got a viable alternative point all the bad bastards in the general direction of the very same tracks.

That's it. Off you go.

[MSTRS]

From the figures I found when I first asked myself that question, no.

The crashingest riders are the youngest, linear progression to the oldest (and safest) group.

No way to isolate BABs even if you were unwise enough to attempt a numeric description. Howeve, it's been my observation that most of 'em retain skill levels beyond the younger ones.


I agree.

The stats that we see only isolate licence levels, not 'experience' or otherwise. A pie chart I saw on here in the last couple of days says that 52% of fatalities are of 6F status...not surprising since (I'm guessing) that there's more of that class on 100kph roads, and open road speeds are much harder on a biker who comes to grief for any reason.
But whether they are the ones that are crashing in higher numbers or not, I'd hazard a guess that it's BABs that have driven the massive increase in bike numbers in the last 10 years.

[yachtie10]

My issue with Gareth Morgan fronting the MSL is he appeared on a show on TVNZ7 alongside the Ulysses man and Garth seemed to be agreeing with Nick Smiths statistics on the increase in Motorcycle injuries and deaths and then went on to make the statement that a lot of those deaths were middle aged born again bikers buying machines that were to big and to powerful for them and that they didn't have the ability to handle them.
As an economist and numbers man he failed to firstly justify his comments or point out the fact that their had been a large increase in registrations over that period. As far as I'm concerned he was working his jaw for the sake of being on TV.
I think Nick has someone one the inside now.

While i have no idea if he is an inside man, he lost a lot of my respect when he stated on TV that "statistics dont lie" and the BAB accidents were a mjaor cause of the so called rise in acidents/death

In my experience statistics rarely tell the truth unless you use them without an agenda and with an open analytical mind

[Ocean1]

I'd hazard a guess that it's BABs that have driven the massive increase in bike numbers in the last 10 years.

Correct. But again, that increase was concurrent with a lower relative rise in both fatalities and injuries. Inescapable conclusion is that the returnees are safer riders.

[Ocean1]

While i have no idea if he is an inside man, he lost a lot of my respect when he stated on TV that "statistics dont lie" and the BAB accidents were a mjaor cause of the so called rise in acidents/death

So I noticed. He's susceptible to bullshit. Doubt he’s a “plant” in the classic sense, though.


In my experience statistics rarely tell the truth unless you use them without and agenda and with an open analytical mind

Yup. See above.

[scumdog]

Fuck I'm sick of this.... (yeah yeah - dont read it) This shit just sucks the joy out of having a motorcycle.

I went and entered a surfcasting comp in the weekend with 2 of my girls and partners - it was fun. We knew were wouldnt catch much and the weather was appalling but the people were all decent and it was a fugging laugh...

Paul, you can get a parallel experience at a South Island motorbike raly.

And the fishing is even worse.

[MSTRS]

In my experience statistics rarely tell the truth unless you use them without an agenda and with an open analytical mind

Statistics on their own don't lie. However, statistics are always compiled to tell a story, one which is achieved by manipulating raw data into certain 'shapes'. And then using that to illustrate a point that one has pre-determined.
ie 52% of biker fatalities are 6F - therefore, having a full licence is dangerous. What is omitted is there are many more 6F holder than 6L or R. But that's not the point for someone who wants to ban the 6F level for motorcycle riders.

[MSTRS]

Correct. But again, that increase was concurrent with a lower relative rise in both fatalities and injuries. Inescapable conclusion is that the returnees are safer riders.

Looks exactly like that to me too.
I don't think such a collation exists, but a comparison of age/licence level deaths over the years, also factored by bike numbers and total number of class 6 licence holders, might prove it.

[Mom]

Paul from TVNZ decided we (read BRONZ) are not militant enough to attend, they only wanted 'anti MSL' Motorcycle rep to 'spar' with Gareth

Sensationalist journalism at its best, way to go Breakfast!

Not really a fair summation of the conversation I had with him to be fair. They wanted a counter argument, I could give them one, and I was pleased tpo be able to do so. MAG-NZ is opposed to the MSL, has been from the beginning and I cant for a moment seeing our stance changing on that.


A shame there wasn't the time to elaborate. As stoney said, it was sad that it did appear they wanted a stoush between you and Gareth. I've got nothing against him myself, I do think he cares about the issue. Maybe he wasn't aware of what MAG NZ is all about and doing?

Meh...

The questions did not lead to a stoush though, I talked at length with the evening producer (Paul) about our stance and what we wanted to see, he was the one keen to have an alternative viewpoint aired. There was little chance that it was going to become an on air argument anyway from my perspective anyway.


After the comment from Corin to email in if you hate bikers i sent some feedback politely telling them to stick their sensationalist crap up their arse and I'd rather watch two cockroaches humping than fry my brain on eggs with their immature televised gossip column.

I missed the rest of the programme, I will be a little bit ticked off if that is what he said. How do I find out? That is so out of line I will personally tackle him about it.


That I do agree on and Kudos to Anne for making her stand known.

There is still some serious misunderstanding in regards this fund tho, and there lies my intention to ensure that its understood no matter who likes it or hates it.

I dont think there is anyone not clear on what the MSL is, it surprises me that there is so much emphasis on re assurring us that none of the money gathered in the name of MSL will be spent on the administration of the fund, if fact I would call it almost a defensive stance.



Hear fucking hear. From my perspective, 30 bucks is another 2 or 3 weeks I'll have to ride dirty to get even (in my own little way). As predicted last year, New Zealand's motorcyclists have rolled over,


I'll say it again.

Epic Fail.

Particularly when there is funding already available for ACC Accident Prevention Officers to partially fund/support rider education and safety initiatives right now. We dont need an MSL at all.

Fuck I'm sick of this.... (yeah yeah - dont read it) This shit just sucks the joy out of having a motorcycle.

I went and entered a surfcasting comp in the weekend with 2 of my girls and partners - it was fun. We knew were wouldnt catch much and the weather was appalling but the people were all decent and it was a fugging laugh...


I am still camping at the beach...

Sort of, we are home to take kids to meet planes tomorrow, otherwise we are at the beach and away from computers...

Fishing eh? I love fishing, pity of it is I am alone on that score...

[ynot slow]

Not saying I agree with GM, but...
Just who IS responsible for the 'large increase in registrations over that period'?

Could it just possibly be BABs?

Case and point.New years eve at the South Taranaki Club,talking to three guys,all from 57-62yrs old and thinking of getting back or starting riding.One had ridden on farms so could ride a bit,had limited riding on road although has a class 6 license,other 2 no experience,but both had class 6,one had his class 6 due to cop giving him it by mistake back in 1966 or so lol.I commented that's just what we want not,as all said they'd be buying bikes to pillion on,Harleys mentioned,ironic as one was a funeral director,and hated his son on bikes 15-20 yrs ago.

[riffer]

ON the face of the figures, it would appear hard to argue that the only group to show a rise in deaths is the 40+ age group. However I would be prepared to argue that based on the motorcycling demographs - our motorcycling population is increasingly represented by people of that age group.

What interests me is a graph further on in the motorcycle crash fact sheet 2010 that points out recorded cc ratings for crashes.

0-49cc (increasing from 15-17% of all crashes)
60-250cc (increasing from 15-17% of all crashes)
750cc-999cc (marginal increase 14-15%)

250cc-499cc has seen a huge drop from 25% to 9% of all crashes
500-749cc has seen a drop from 10%-7%

1000cc+ increasing over the last ten years from 17% to 21%

Now I know this is primarily because of the types of motorcycles sold in NZ over the last ten years changing - if we did this forty years ago there'd be almost no crashes over 650cc - and I wonder if there isn't ammunition here for us.

The way I see it - it's like the speed ad where the father is told by the copper that they're concentrating on people speed a few kms over "because that's where most of the crashes occur Sir."

You see, most of those crashes occur at that speed because that's the speed most of the people drive at.

Likewise, blaming larger cc bikes and older riders for the problem fails to take into account that this is the largest group of motorcyclists.

I'm going to have a think about this one.

[MSTRS]

Simple fact is - if there are more (age group of choice) riding, then there are (age group) crashing.
Same as for engine capacity.

There is nothing sinister about the stats. Only how The Prick and his cronies are using them.

[Katman]

Seems to me, if we put half as much effort into reducing accidents as we do analysing numbers, we'd have the problem solved by now.

[bogan]

I'm going to have a think about this one.

We got some historical data and compiled some stats and graphs and things on this if it helps, second item down on this page (http://www.mag-nz.org/campaigns/acc) we compared injury rates per 1000 vehicles and found that there was no correlation between higher engine size and higher accident rate; in fact 51-250cc riders are the highest risk. Also shows that the two classes with the highest increase in registered bike numbers 601cc+ and <50cc (scoots).

[riffer]

Seems to me, if we put half as much effort into reducing accidents as we do analysing numbers, we'd have the problem solved by now.

Yeah we're working on that one too Steve, it's the age-old problem of leading the horse to water though - the stubborn bastards still won't drink...

[Katman]

Yeah we're working on that one too Steve, it's the age-old problem of leading the horse to water though - the stubborn bastards still won't drink...

They do if you block their nostrils.

[Berries]

ON the face of the figures, it would appear hard to argue that the only group to show a rise in deaths is the 40+ age group. However I would be prepared to argue that based on the motorcycling demographs - our motorcycling population is increasingly represented by people of that age group.
It would be. With presumably less people getting in to riding bikes when they are young the age demographic is getting higher as we all get older. In ten years it might be 50+. Throw in the fact that some people see it as a leisure pursuit and throw their disposable income at it and that further reinforces the point. The one thing that may start to balance the scales is that as scooters become more and more popular the number of younger riders being killed and injured will increase. Shit. If they improve new rider training the oldies will look even worse in the figures.

The one thing we cannot tell easily is the riding experience of those involved - both years and regularity. This is critical to any kind of intervention plan, and to debating the demographic stats.

[Ocean1]

stubborn bastards still won't drink...


...intervention plan...

Read my lips: There is no problem relating to routine behaviour that is amenable to regulation by legislation.

If you feel some desperate need to improve road safety then look at making the roads safer.

[AllanB]

Mom, I think you did well on TV - you'd need to drag me kicking to be on it - well that business lady could probably easily convince me ......



Seems to me, if we put half as much effort into reducing accidents as we do analysing numbers, we'd have the problem solved by now.

True.

[Berries]

Read my lips: There is no problem relating to routine behaviour that is amenable to regulation by legislation.
What I was implying is that it is no use targeting all riders over forty with the same magic solution if some have been riding regularly and safely for over twenty years, and others only three months. And I agree, legislation would not be the answer anyway.


If you feel some desperate need to improve road safety then look at making the roads safer.
There will always be poorly aligned roads in NZ with decreasing radii combined with shitty chipseal and roadside objects that will kill you in an instant. There isn’t the money to make them all ‘safe’, whatever that term really means.

[Ocean1]

What I was implying is that it is no use targeting all riders over forty with the same magic solution if some have been riding regularly and safely for over twenty years, and others only three months. And I agree, legislation would not be the answer anyway.

Yup, might work on children, not adults. And before someone else points it out it doesn't work on old children either,


There will always be poorly aligned roads in NZ with decreasing radii combined with shitty chipseal and roadside objects that will kill you in an instant. There isn’t the money to make them all ‘safe’, whatever that term really means.

But there's be a fucking sight more if they didn't spend most of the budget on extensively teraforming SH1 and liberally sprinkling it with yet more signposts.

[martybabe]

But there's be a fucking sight more if they didn't spend most of the budget on extensively teraforming SH1 and liberally sprinkling it with yet more signposts.

Most assuredly, I did a 550k run today and for the most part the roads were nothing short of shocking, at one point I was axle deep in loose rock, not gravel, shingle or fines, an untented kilometer of calf deep rock lumps.

We could debate forever what contributes to the unacceptably high crash rates but ultimately it is subjective opinion, quite warped in some cases, here however we have a very real and tangible threat to motorcyclists safety that could be rectified.....so we'll just ignore that because it costs money and continue happily calling each other names....cause that'll really help.

[StoneY]

Yeah we're working on that one too Steve, it's the age-old problem of leading the horse to water though - the stubborn bastards still won't drink...

Education, not legislation, will save lives.


They do if you block their nostrils.

:shit::facepalm:

[Mom]

Mom, I think you did well on TV - you'd need to drag me kicking to be on it - well that business lady could probably easily convince me ......
True.

Thank you, I admit to being a tiny bit peeved that Corin was not interviewing me :o

However, I came away with a totally new respect for Petra.


Read my lips: There is no problem relating to routine behaviour that is amenable to regulation by legislation.

If you feel some desperate need to improve road safety then look at making the roads safer.


Most assuredly, I did a 550k run today and for the most part the roads were nothing short of shocking, at one point I was axle deep in loose rock, not gravel, shingle or fines, an untented kilometer of calf deep rock lumps.

We could debate forever what contributes to the unacceptably high crash rates but ultimately it is subjective opinion, quite warped in some cases, here however we have a very real and tangible threat to motorcyclists safety that could be rectified.....so we'll just ignore that because it costs money and continue happily calling each other names....cause that'll really help.


We have recognised this as a REAL issue for bikers and have developed this campaign in an atttempt to get the authorities to sit up and listen. It works! I have had members tell me just how quickly councils step up if they actually know there is a problem. If they dont and we find out about it, Rest assured we will step up and amp up the pressure. If everyone used the report a road campaign it would really let the powers that be know we are serious about at least one aspect of improving our safety by being proactive in reporting problems.
http://www.mag-nz.org/campaigns/report-a-road

[martybabe]

We have recognised this as a REAL issue for bikers and have developed this campaign in an atttempt to get the authorities to sit up and listen. It works! I have had members tell me just how quickly councils step up if they actually know there is a problem. If they dont and we find out about it, Rest assured we will step up and amp up the pressure. If everyone used the report a road campaign it would really let the powers that be know we are serious about at least one aspect of improving our safety by being proactive in reporting problems.
http://www.mag-nz.org/campaigns/report-a-road

Now that really is useful, especially if they do something about it, I wonder if there is a limit to how many roads you can report :yes: Cheers Mom x

[86GSXR]

Nice one Anne :yes: Yep, you're right, all these increased motorcycle levies are discrimatory. It seems to me that we'd be better off scrapping increases for specific user groups and focus instead on a single payment for every citizen.

A compulsory $500.00 PA from every man, woman, and child in the country taken out of wages, benefits, working for families or whatever ones income source is is still $2b and that covers cyclists, parachutists, homeowners, multiple vehicle users and everyone else who has an accidental injury. Might even have something left over.

And I'm buggered if I'm going to pay rego on both my bikes this year, sod that.

[Owl]

And I'm buggered if I'm going to pay rego on both my bikes this year, sod that.

If you like, I can paint some stripes on the Daytona. Who the fuck would then argue that it's not a Tiger?:msn-wink:

[Mom]

Now that really is useful, especially if they do something about it, I wonder if there is a limit to how many roads you can report :yes: Cheers Mom x

My fervent hope is that every biker reports every road they find over, and over again. Imagine it. We will log each one if you let us know that nothing is done after you complain. The NZ map will start to show which councils actually give a shit about biker safety. using this we should be able to really identify the real problem issues and put a bit of pressure on TPTB to actually DO something. Spread the word...

[Edbear]

Thank you, I admit to being a tiny bit peeved that Corin was not interviewing me :o

However, I came away with a totally new respect for Petra.

We have recognised this as a REAL issue for bikers and have developed this campaign in an atttempt to get the authorities to sit up and listen. It works! I have had members tell me just how quickly councils step up if they actually know there is a problem. If they dont and we find out about it, Rest assured we will step up and amp up the pressure. If everyone used the report a road campaign it would really let the powers that be know we are serious about at least one aspect of improving our safety by being proactive in reporting problems.
http://www.mag-nz.org/campaigns/report-a-road

Petra's a sweety, but she's also a pretty switched on person. :yes:


My fervent hope is that every biker reports every road they find over, and over again. Imagine it. We will log each one if you let us know that nothing is done after you complain. The NZ map will start to show which councils actually give a shit about biker safety. using this we should be able to really identify the real problem issues and put a bit of pressure on TPTB to actually DO something. Spread the word...

Good idea! Even if not on the bike, I can be aware of road conditions that will affect bikers.

Looks like it'll be the MX5 to Paeroa this month...

[Mom]

Looks like it'll be the MX5 to Paeroa this month...

Be great to see you down there. And yes, Petra is something a bit different to what I was expecting, the girls were beside themselves to meet her :D

[Edbear]

Be great to see you down there. And yes, Petra is something a bit different to what I was expecting, the girls were beside themselves to meet her :D

Be good to get back there again! :woohoo:

I think Petra and Corin will soon make the show their own. I like them both and Nadine is kinda gorgeous too... Haven't been in there for a while. Last time I called in I met Suzanne Paul on her way out. Got a very friendly welcome every time. Must pop in again soon.

[Usarka]

My fervent hope is that every biker reports every road they find over, and over again. Imagine it. We will log each one if you let us know that nothing is done after you complain. The NZ map will start to show which councils actually give a shit about biker safety. using this we should be able to really identify the real problem issues and put a bit of pressure on TPTB to actually DO something. Spread the word...

+1. Management 101, if you can't measure it you can't change it......

[Mom]

+1. Management 101, if you can't measure it you can't change it......

I have also been told that hair straighteners are my friend :yes:

I quite like the unkempt look myself :facepalm:

[Edbear]

I have also been told that hair straighteners are my friend :yes:

I quite like the unkempt look myself :facepalm:

Like Maha in the morning, if you know what I mean... Oh, sorry, wrong thread... :innocent:

[Mom]

Like Maha in the morning... :innocent:

Yeah. Pillow hair sucks :love:

[86GSXR]

If you like, I can paint some stripes on the Daytona. Who the fuck would then argue that it's not a Tiger?:msn-wink:

I'm sure it would look great too Al lol.

But bugger the gov't on this one. They got tax when I bought it, they get tax every time I service it and fill it up. They're not getting any more, especially if they insist on double dipping!


My fervent hope is that every biker reports every road they find over, and over again. Imagine it. We will log each one if you let us know that nothing is done after you complain. The NZ map will start to show which councils actually give a shit about biker safety. using this we should be able to really identify the real problem issues and put a bit of pressure on TPTB to actually DO something. Spread the word...

Brilliant idea, just reporting the Te Pongana Saddle Rd on SH 47 between National Park and Tokaanu. It was littered with large amounts of unmarked dark coloured gravel on the weekend, nearly taking out three of us! :sweatdrop

[PrincessBandit]

Yeah. Pillow hair sucks :love:

Especially if it has bits of drool in it as well. Not that I'd know, of course.

P.s. I thought you looked and sounded fab Mom. Great spokesperson and steadfast in your message.