Excuses Excuses Excuses Blame Blame Blame

[DougieNZ]

Hi

I am not even going to look at the latest thread re the campaign Gareth Morgan is involved with.

I'm sure it is filled with "what can this rich prick tell us" type statements.

To be honest i am getting a wee bit tired of the vast majority of posts on here looking to blame everyone and everything else but us motorcyclists for things that are going wrong.

Accidents - It's the road conditions. It's the weather. Its the car drivers fault. Its the ACC levies. Its the stupid laws.

Tickets - It's the police arrogance. It's revenue gathering. I'm being picked on. What about the car driver? On the other hand it is OK for us to break the law and run from the police because we are motorcyclists? I should be able to ride at whatever speed I like and not pay rego and not expect some consequences?

I am not perfect by any means. I have broken the law and been tickted. I have had accidents on my bike. Every one of these things have been avoidable. And by one person - ME! I could have blamed a miriad of things for my accidents. Wet/slippery roads - I pranged in to the back of a car stopped on the outside lane on the motorway once around a corner. But at the end of the day if I had have been looking ahead I would have avoided that accident. Easy to blame other things and harder to look at oneself.

With the attitude of some on there towards the police and the law it is no wonder the police are looking out for us..

The facts are a lot of our brothers and sisters in the motorcycling community are being killed out there and I think it is high time that we start to look at OURSELVES and truly analyse what we can do to keep ourselves safe. I have been riding for 30 years and will be taking advantage of some training this year. Whether I pay for it myself or the Govt subsidises it. It is never too late to learn or change.

It is time to stop blaming everyone else and start taking some responsibility for our behaviour and actions. Until the attitude towards safety and obeying the law changes these horrendous accidents will continue.

Let the flames begin. Yes I understand that there are meny on here that don't agree.

No I am not a police officer nor are any of my family.
No I am not related to Nick Smith.
Yes I did attend the ACC rally in Wgtn.

All I am saying is lets look within rather than playimng the blame game. Changes there will dramatically improve the accident rate.

[p.dath]

I agree. Don't look to others to solve your problem before you've looked at yourself.

[PrincessBandit]

Shake hands with katman. He's been saying this for years, copped heaps of shit for it (well, he can be rather blunt) but keeps saying it anyway. I think more and more riders are realising there is truth in the message, unpalatable though it may be.

[xgnr]

Well said that man

[sinfull]

Here here !!!

[Grubber]

About bloody time. I, like you, have had enough of all the crying about police and laws etc. When i ride, it's me who is in control of my bike. If i get a ticket for speeding then it's me who is at fault. If i fall and i'm the only one there, then it's my fault. I live with that and i'm happy to do so. I have had 3 speeding tickets in 30 years and a couple of accidents. ! was my fault (too quick) and the other was the cow's.
So all in all i'm happy as with the way things are going for me. If i stack it then i pay for it. Pretty simple really.
Mind you, i don't ride the pants of my bike out on the open road (too many obstacles for me) but i do at the track.:msn-wink:
Now wait for the backlash of the tyrants who think the road is theirs to do as they wish.

[White trash]

You know it's against site rules to have more than one log-in Katman?

[Banditbandit]

Now wait for the backlash of the tyrants who think the road is theirs to do as they wish.

Tyrants ???? It's us freedom-loving bikers who think the road is ours to do as we wish (read "playground" ...)

[Banditbandit]

Hi

I am not even going to look at the latest thread re the campaign Gareth Morgan is involved with.

I'm sure it is filled with "what can this rich prick tell us" type statements.

To be honest i am getting a wee bit tired of the vast majority of posts on here looking to blame everyone and everything else but us motorcyclists for things that are going wrong.

Accidents - It's the road conditions. It's the weather. Its the car drivers fault. Its the ACC levies. Its the stupid laws.

Tickets - It's the police arrogance. It's revenue gathering. I'm being picked on. What about the car driver? On the other hand it is OK for us to break the law and run from the police because we are motorcyclists? I should be able to ride at whatever speed I like and not pay rego and not expect some consequences?

I am not perfect by any means. I have broken the law and been tickted. I have had accidents on my bike. Every one of these things have been avoidable. And by one person - ME! I could have blamed a miriad of things for my accidents. Wet/slippery roads - I pranged in to the back of a car stopped on the outside lane on the motorway once around a corner. But at the end of the day if I had have been looking ahead I would have avoided that accident. Easy to blame other things and harder to look at oneself.

With the attitude of some on there towards the police and the law it is no wonder the police are looking out for us..

The facts are a lot of our brothers and sisters in the motorcycling community are being killed out there and I think it is high time that we start to look at OURSELVES and truly analyse what we can do to keep ourselves safe. I have been riding for 30 years and will be taking advantage of some training this year. Whether I pay for it myself or the Govt subsidises it. It is never too late to learn or change.

It is time to stop blaming everyone else and start taking some responsibility for our behaviour and actions. Until the attitude towards safety and obeying the law changes these horrendous accidents will continue.

Let the flames begin. Yes I understand that there are meny on here that don't agree.

No I am not a police officer nor are any of my family.
No I am not related to Nick Smith.
Yes I did attend the ACC rally in Wgtn.

All I am saying is lets look within rather than playimng the blame game. Changes there will dramatically improve the accident rate.

Hang about ... I don't get it ... first you say riders need to be more responsible .. then you admit that you speed and have accidents ...

So you are saying "do as I want you all too .. not as I do ...???"

[Katman]

Mrs Marsh was right - it really does get in. :eek:

[red mermaid]

You mean talk less about your rights and more about your responsibilities?

Have to agree with you.

The rules are well known, if you break them and get caught that is your problem.

[Pussy]

You won't get flaming from me, Dougie.
Great post!

[Grubber]

Tyrants ???? It's us freedom-loving bikers who think the road is ours to do as we wish (read "playground" ...)

For the ones causing the problems it may well be. It's not the answer though!


Hang about ... I don't get it ... first you say riders need to be more responsible .. then you admit that you speed and have accidents ...

So you are saying "do as I want you all too .. not as I do ...???"

I think you know what he means. There are some out there that do 150k and moan like shit when they get caught and also crash and blame others, then there is the ones that restrict there speed to a safer margin to remain alive and avoid tickets.
Thought it was pretty obvious really.:Police:

[Usarka]

Hi

I am not even going to look at the latest thread re the campaign Gareth Morgan is involved with.

I'm sure it is filled with "what can this rich prick tell us" type statements.

To be honest i am getting a wee bit tired of the vast majority of posts on here looking to blame everyone and everything else but us motorcyclists for things that are going wrong.

Cool I've done you the same disservice and stopped reading your post there but I'm sick of the everyone saying the majority of us blame everything else.

From my observation anyone who says the majority of crashes aren't our fault are usually pulled up on it pretty quick. They are the fringe extremist lunatics, and they exist on both ends of the spectrum just like in every other aspect of life.

[SPP]

Me?!! Not me bro… I’m too awesome. Bling your way good sir.

[Owl]

Mrs Marsh was right - it really does get in. :eek:

ONLY KATMAN CAN GIVE MOTORCYCLISTS A BETTER VERBAL TREATMENT

:laugh:

[MSTRS]

It is time to stop blaming everyone else and start taking some responsibility for our behaviour and actions. Until the attitude towards safety and obeying the law changes these horrendous accidents will continue.



It's always been time for taking personal responsibility for how we ride. It's also always been time for taking personal responsibility for how other motorists behave.
But don't be thinking that obeying the law is any guarantee of staying safe.

[Squiggles]

I blame society.


:lol:

[DEATH_INC.]

There are some out there that do 150k and moan like shit when they get caught and also crash and blame others, then there is the ones that restrict there speed to a safer margin to remain alive and avoid tickets.
Thought it was pretty obvious really.:Police:
Then there are those that do 150k and don't crash or growl about getting tickets, and those that obey the magic speed limits and die and get tickets......what's your point?

[bogan]

firstly there are counterpoints:

You're thinking too small dougie, all road users could stand to re-evaluate their safeness on the roads, not just bikers, NZTA shows motorcyclists are primarily responsible for about 51% (iirc) of our accidents, why not work on the other 49% as well?

As for speeding, there is evidence out there that shows that it may just be revenue gathering, I know thats the only reason I don't go over 100 too often.

Secondly, I do agree with it overall, excuses and whining on the internet aint gonna do shit except possibly some feel more secure in unsafe riding habits. Don't like speeding tickets but feel you should be able to speed? start working to change the speeding policy etc BEFORE you get the next one. Don't like getting cut/knocked off by other motorists? educate those you know to drive better. Don't like road cock-ups/loose gravel? report them.

So prepare yourself for the dangers of the road, but also try and get em removed to benefit others who aren't as prepared.

[Quasievil]

I'm sure it is filled with "what can this rich prick tell us" type statements.



Jealous much ? Good to know the Tall Poppy syndrome is alive and well.

I met a billionaire (yes a Billionaire) on Saturday and what a loverly bloke.

[Grubber]

Then there are those that do 150k and don't crash or growl about getting tickets, and those that obey the magic speed limits and die and get tickets......what's your point?

Still way to obvious for ya is it!
If they obey the speed limits and all other road laws and still die, then it won't be their fault. If they obey the speed limits and all other road laws then they wont be getting tickets will they!
The ones that do 150k and don't crash etc and don't growl are the ones that won't be on here bitching, they won't be helping the cause too much but they won't be bitching all the same!

[DEATH_INC.]

Still way to obvious for ya is it!
If they obey the speed limits and all other road laws and still die, then it won't be their fault.
So that makes it ok then?

[Movistar]

It's all about attitude isn't it.

There is no right time on the road to be doing stupid shit, whether that be on a motorcycle, push bike, car or truck.

There is however, time to have fun.
Now that is where the interpretation breaks down.

If it isn't safe, don't do it. But the perception of 'safe' differs from one person to the next.

Great post, I think you're spot on :msn-wink:

[DEATH_INC.]

If they obey the speed limits and all other road laws then they wont be getting tickets will they!
You don't have to break the law to get tickets in this country....

[Grubber]

So that makes it ok then?

Of coarse bloody not! Jeez mate.
Not going to carry on with this as it is obviously far too difficult for you to follow.

[Grubber]

You don't have to break the law to get tickets in this country....

Thats weird see.....cause the only ones i ever got i broke the law. Never had one for not breaking the law. Maybe you just have this aura about you that attracts them!:niceone:

[DEATH_INC.]

Thats weird see.....cause the only ones i ever got i broke the law. Never had one for not breaking the law. Maybe you just have this aura about you that attracts them!:niceone:
Yes they love me :laugh: .....I've had a couple I didn't earn. But I'm by far not the only one.... But that's another subject...

[James Deuce]

Thats weird see.....cause the only ones i ever got i broke the law. Never had one for not breaking the law. Maybe you just have this aura about you that attracts them!:niceone:


You've never been in a group of bikes 5 minutes behind someone doing something silly and then been ticketed because you're on a bike and may have been doing the same thing.

Probably not been ticketed for failing to give way to a cop on a roundabout despite the cop not indicating?

Got off one of those.

[Ocean1]

Cool I've done you the same disservice and stopped reading your post there but I'm sick of the everyone saying the majority of us blame everything else.

From my observation anyone who says the majority of crashes aren't our fault are usually pulled up on it pretty quick. They are the fringe extremist lunatics, and they exist on both ends of the spectrum just like in every other aspect of life.

Hey!! us fringe extremist lunatics object to being singled out!!!


Not going to carry on with this

:niceone:


Thats weird see.....

:facepalm:

[DEATH_INC.]

Of coarse bloody not! Jeez mate.
Not going to carry on with this as it is obviously far too difficult for you to follow.
I'm not picking on you personally, but I wish people would think before regurgitating the police line on speed. Speed does not cause accidents. Not on it's own.

[Ocean1]

I've had a couple I didn't earn. But I'm by far not the only one....

Three. Just the one genuine mistake.


in a group of bikes 5 minutes behind someone doing something silly and then been ticketed because you're on a bike and may have been doing the same thing.

Snap.

[Quasievil]

People Cause accidents, if we get rid of the people we will eliminate 100% of road crashes, this is the only way forward !

[DEATH_INC.]

People Cause accidents, if we get rid of the people we will eliminate 100% of road crashes, this is the only way forward !

Spot on Quasi....though there are some that will argue that we are already trying to do that :facepalm:

[mashman]

:rofl: this one again... I agree we need to take personal responsibility, i'm pretty sure I will when I crash (unless i decide not to :shifty:)... Unfortunately ACC, Insurance Companies, Police, the Courts etc... are all set up to assign blame. Some for financial reasons, some for legal reasons, some for safety reasons (tui?)... and then we wonder why deny deny deny is the mantra. It may save you a few hundy or a trip to the big house... that's why we deny deny deny...

[davebullet]

Those that blame are the last to learn.

There's a lame in every blame.

[Banditbandit]

For the ones causing the problems it may well be. It's not the answer though!



I think you know what he means. There are some out there that do 150k and moan like shit when they get caught and also crash and blame others, then there is the ones that restrict there speed to a safer margin to remain alive and avoid tickets.
Thought it was pretty obvious really.:Police:

It was obvious - I just object to being preached to about speed and crashes by someone who admits they speed and crash ...

[rastuscat]

Hey, I cracked it !!

SOE is the problem. SOE causes all the crashes on the road, and causes all the problems in society.

Yes, SOE. Track him/her down and sort him/her out.

P.S. SOE is someone else. It's far easier to blame someone else than to accept responsibility for our own crashes..

Donuts.

[Big Dave]

I blame Renegade Master.

[Usarka]

Victoria Motorcycle Safety Campaign:


The new campaign reminds riders about the types of risks they are exposed to every time they ride and that no matter who is at fault (renegade master), it likely to come of second best in the case of a crash.

[Grubber]

It was obvious - I just object to being preached to about speed and crashes by someone who admits they speed and crash ...

Big difference between preaching and passing on experience that i learn from. Anyone can do whatever they want, my point is that the more that speed (as in 150k plus ) and try, i repeat try to corner like rossi the more that will crash and burn at some time or another. If your not one of those then my comments are obviously not directed at you. If you are one that over steps the boundaries of safe riding then suck it up i say. your the one adding to my ACC bill.!
If you haven't figured it out yet, my speeding involves 2 tickets. 1 for 112kph and 1 for 108kph. I got these in an area were i was in a busy traffic area. When i speed any faster than that it is done in the back blocks away from traffic and on the track, safely.
But hey,,,,you read into all that what ya want...cause i know your going to. Otherwise you may be seen as being sencible..:wait:

[Fatt Max]

People Cause accidents, if we get rid of the people we will eliminate 100% of road crashes, this is the only way forward !

Yep, same as 100% of divorces start with marriage.....

[MSTRS]

... If you are one that over steps the boundaries of safe riding then suck it up i say. your the one adding to my ACC bill.!
....

Define 'safe riding'. I bet you can't, because it doesn't really exist. Except for, perhaps, sitting on your bike while it's parked up in your gargre. No - all there is, is riding in such a way as to create the best chance of survival.
What has added to your (our) ACC bill is the injuries. No-one needs to ride like a cock to be involved in an injury-accident.
Admittedly, excessive speed has probably been the cause of some crashes. In those cases, the rider was probably killed - which is cheaper for ACC anyway.

[Bald Eagle]

Except for, perhaps, sitting on your bike while it's parked up in your gargre.

I've been practicing this method of safe riding for 3 months now and I haven't had any problems. :weird:

[MSTRS]

... so far ...

[marie_speeds]

I've been practicing this method of safe riding for 3 months now and I haven't had any problems. :weird:

We are still talking about motorcycles? :shutup:

[Roadsafe Nelson]

Easy to blame other things and harder to look at oneself.

With the attitude of some on there towards the police and the law it is no wonder the police are looking out for us..

It is high time that we start to look at OURSELVES and truly analyse what we can do to keep ourselves safe. It is never too late to learn or change.

It is time to stop blaming everyone else and start taking some responsibility for our behaviour and actions.

lets look within rather than playimng the blame game.

Very well said Dougie!! :niceone: It is never too late to learn or change!! :yes:

[Ocean1]

We are still talking about motorcycles? :shutup:

And ATGATT.

[Katman]

Define 'safe riding'. I bet you can't, because it doesn't really exist.

While 'safe riding' may be a little hard to accurately define there's plenty of examples of unsafe riding that could easily be addressed.

Wheelstands alongside WRBs = unsafe.

300 kph on public roads = unsafe.

Racing around blind corners at speeds that make it impossible to stop if necessary = unsafe.

Lanesplitting at warp speed = unsafe.

Riding while daydreaming about the root you're hoping to get that night = unsafe.

The reality is that there are far too many of us riding like they're an accident waiting to happen.

I don't know about you John, but I feel 'safe' when I'm riding.

[Ocean1]

I don't know about you John, but I feel 'safe' when I'm riding.

It's a long way down from way up there, dude.

Watch your step eh?

[Swoop]

I wish people would think before regurgitating the police line on speed. Speed does not cause accidents. Not on it's own.
<STRIKE>We all know that</STRIKE> Some of us know that, but the propaganda machine keeps spitting out the usual rhetoric.

[Grubber]

I'm not picking on you personally, but I wish people would think before regurgitating the police line on speed. Speed does not cause accidents. Not on it's own.

I agree whole heartedly. Otherwise you and i probably wouldn't be here today having this discussion. What i do believe is being sensible about how fast and where, is the trick and not blaming it on everyone else, including police, when it goes all pear shaped.
Everything in moderation perhaps.
I'm no saint but i am way better than others at keeping things under control. Think this is where i come from most of the time.
Even on my fast days i have been passed like i was standing still going into a blind corner. Those are the fellas that piss me off no end. There is often times when i know that some of these guys would have no chance if there was oncoming at that corner. I would also become one of their statistics. :eek:

[Katman]

It's a long way down from way up there, dude.

Watch your step eh?

Don't worry, I'm not afraid of heights.

[Mad-V2]

I Speed every time I get on my bikes :bleh: excessively!!! I have done for the last 13 years. I also take any responsibility for my actions (fines free). I have been ticketed by a cop (who thought he was above the law) for speeding when I wasn't, He paid the court costs and I walked out laughing :bleh:
I have paid all my fines and have never had an accident on my bike or an ACC claim ever (Knock wood), as I know my limits and never go over them.
What I'd like to know is why do cyclists get a free ride? Huge cycleway networks, ACC cover, No rego fees or W.O.F and yet if I was driving a car and hit one on a roadway that us road users pay for, It would probably be my fault.
All I can say is fuck the govt! Fuck the law!! And Cyclists can fuck themselves!!!
Just because you do gooders abide by the law, doesn't mean you wont get killed or ticketed. You can get killed or ticketed just by crossing the road on foot. I'm not saying we should all get on our bikes and ride at full speed, all I'm saying is ride responsibly (below your limit), be vigilant of other road users, and don't show off unless your on a track where an ambulance is close by.

End rant

[MSTRS]

I don't know about you John, but I feel 'safe' when I'm riding.

The feeling is mutual.

However - feeling safe is subjective. One person's 'safe' is another's 'what a cock'. Eh?

Actually - belay that. I don't feel safe. I feel in control. Of me.

[Grubber]

Define 'safe riding'. I bet you can't, because it doesn't really exist. Except for, perhaps, sitting on your bike while it's parked up in your gargre. No - all there is, is riding in such a way as to create the best chance of survival.
What has added to your (our) ACC bill is the injuries. No-one needs to ride like a cock to be involved in an injury-accident.
Admittedly, excessive speed has probably been the cause of some crashes. In those cases, the rider was probably killed - which is cheaper for ACC anyway.

I think we could all get rather pedantic about the word 'safe' but inn reality i think we all know what is trying to be said.
"Riding in such a way as to create the best chance of survival" Thats pretty much got it sorted.
Of coarse there will be the pc brigade that says "no should be able to tell me how to ride, it's my bike, my life, and i'll do whatever i want"
wait for it now....won't be too long....:calm:before the storm.

[Fatt Max]

While 'safe riding' may be a little hard to accurately define there's plenty of examples of unsafe riding that could easily be addressed.

Riding while daydreaming about the root you're hoping to get that night = unsafe.

.

Well I'll be alright then cos there is no chance of that for a fat bastard like me, the thinking or the doing in fact

[MSTRS]

... "no should be able to tell me how to ride, it's my bike, my life, and i'll do whatever i want"



Fuck yeah. Rules are for other people.

And no, I don't believe that.

[Hitcher]

There's value to be had from rider training. I hope that that doesn't come in the form of lame advertising campaigns.

If it does come as advanced skills courses, I hope that more riders take time to participate in them, even if there's a financial cost involved. I'm not talking about track days. It's been a few years since my last course and it's about time I did another. I've had many close shaves whilst riding, many of which I've been able to cope with, and I'd like to think that Andrew Templeton trained me well for those. As for the others? Goodness knows, but I'm sure that more training wouldn't go amiss.

[White trash]

There's value to be had from rider training. I hope that that doesn't come in the form of lame advertising campaigns.

If it does come as advanced skills courses, I hope that more riders take time to participate in them, even if there's a financial cost involved. I'm not talking about track days. It's been a few years since my last course and it's about time I did another. I've had many close shaves whilst riding, many of which I've been able to cope with, and I'd like to think that Andrew Templeton trained me well for those. As for the others? Goodness knows, but I'm sure that more training wouldn't go amiss.

Happy to train ya how to wheelie that GSX Brett. A mere eighty bucks an hour.

You know where I am.

[archie-no2]

my motorbike is red, hope this bit of info helps...

Accidents dont just happen, they are caused... hope that also helps

[Hitcher]

Happy to train ya how to wheelie that GSX Brett. A mere eighty bucks an hour.

You know where I am.

Good grief, that's right. It's not a shaftie! w00t!

[Banditbandit]

Big difference between preaching and passing on experience that i learn from. Anyone can do whatever they want, my point is that the more that speed (as in 150k plus ) and try, i repeat try to corner like rossi the more that will crash and burn at some time or another. If your not one of those then my comments are obviously not directed at you. If you are one that over steps the boundaries of safe riding then suck it up i say. your the one adding to my ACC bill.!
If you haven't figured it out yet, my speeding involves 2 tickets. 1 for 112kph and 1 for 108kph. I got these in an area were i was in a busy traffic area. When i speed any faster than that it is done in the back blocks away from traffic and on the track, safely.
But hey,,,,you read into all that what ya want...cause i know your going to. Otherwise you may be seen as being sencible..:wait:

I'll admit it .. I frequently exceed 200 klicks on the open road ... I got a speeding ticket last week (eight days ago) for 120 klicks ... (I was going faster than that .. )

I haven't had a crash since 1999 .. when some turkey went thru' a give way sign and I hit them ... (They were prosecuted) ...

Many here would regard me as crazy and dangerous ... as yes, I'm thinking I need to slow down because I now have more than 50 demerit poits, so one high speed ticket (between 135 and 140 klicks) could cost me my licence (again) ... and I'm too old for that shit ... But I'm NOT considering slowing down because I think I'm too dangerous ...

[DougieNZ]

Just a couple of replys..

Who am I to "preach" when I have had speeding tickets?

Yeah - decent point. I'm just another biker I guess with no more right to an opinion as anyone else. All I am saying is - take responsibility for your actions. Don';'t skite one mimute about doing 150-200 on the open road and then whinge when you lose your licence or get pinged by the police (that's if you live to do so). Man/Woman up and take responsibility. STOP when the police signal you to raher than putting innocent lives at risk and encouraging others to do so (anthor pet hate of mine on here).

Another post said "hey what about the 49% of crashes cause by other people". Well you can manipulate figures any way you want - but even they are true - what about the 51% caused by US!

My prang on the Hutt Motorway was a classic. I came around a corner having just overtaken a vehicle to come accross a line of cars stopped in the overtaling (RH) lane. For a long time I siad to people "there was nothing I could do". Time has made me realise there actually was. If I had have been looking ahead through the corner I may/could have avoided slamming in to that car. Luckily I lived to (eventually) learn my lesson.

Now for the other myth - "speed doesn't kill".

OF COURSE IT DOES!

Speed lowers reaction time and removes control over an outcome. In the same given situation lower speed can make a hell of a difference to the outcome in many cases and crashes. This can and has been proven many times - sadly too late in many instances. Ostrich stuff!

[SPman]

Those that blame are the last to learn.

There's a lame in every blame. Even if you blame yourself ?

I know the exact reasons for all my bins (6 over 40 yrs)- except one - and the amount of thinking about that one, trying to figure out exactly what went pear shaped, has given me more insight into riding dynamics than all the rest put together...blame on that one was "creative", for insurance purposes......

Whinge about tickets - because a law is in place doesn't mean it is a good, sensible, just or correctly applied law. Laws are not absolutes, to be applied pedantically in absolute black and whites, just as life is not in black and white. The fanatical trend towards application to the letter or number of the law is one of the reasons that respect in the law is decreasing, and laws that are disrespected continually in a society, means that something is rotten in the state of legislation........

[martybabe]

Actually - belay that. I don't feel safe. I feel in control. Of me.

Ditto and well put, Odd phrase Mr Kat,I'm sure the type of rider you frequently disparage in these pages 'feel safe' when riding.

[DEATH_INC.]

Now for the other myth - "speed doesn't kill".

OF COURSE IT DOES!

Well.....of course that is correct. Though that's not what I said. It is hard to die from an accident if you are sitting still, though it does still happen.
Remember though, 150k is perfectly safe at times. 80k is not all the time. nor is 50 or even 30. 100k is NOT a magical number that will keep you safe. Nor is 50.

[Berries]

Don';'t skite one mimute about doing 150-200 on the open road and then whinge when you lose your licence or get pinged by the police (that's if you live to do so).
Of course, because we all know you evaporate at those speeds.

[Old Steve]

Do I feel safe when on my bike? Apart from when I'm sitting on her in the garage going, "Brmmm, brmmm, brmmm", NO!

I always feel slightly nervous. I'm always scanning looking out for things like potholes, tar weeps, white paint if it's wet, shingle, if that upcoming corner is safe at this speed, cars which might pull out of a side street or a parking space, cars which might turn across my path, pedestrians who might step out. When I'm on my bike I'm as aware as I can be.

I had a good case of my being aware saving me from an accident just the other day. I was coming up to a roundabout, indicating to turn left at the first exit. Little old lady approaching from the right, left indicator on. She sailed straight through the roundabout, she would have taken me out if I'd assumed she was turning left and I'd entered the roundabout. But I hadn't looked away from her and entered the roundabout, I'd kept watching her, had thought, "She's going too fast to be turning left," and stopped and let her go through.

Now if I'd entered the roundabout she'd have planted her grill on my right hand side. Some would say she caused the accident, but it would really have been my fault for not being aware of what was happening.

I pulled up beside her at the next lights, lifted my visor and told her gently that she shouldn't indicate left if she was going straight through a roundabout. She looked shocked and said she always did because she had to go slightly left when she entered the roundabout. Dear old thing.

[Usarka]

Now for the other myth - "speed doesn't kill".

OF COURSE IT DOES!

Speed lowers reaction time and removes control over an outcome. In the same given situation lower speed can make a hell of a difference to the outcome in many cases and crashes. This can and has been proven many times - sadly too late in many instances. Ostrich stuff!

Sit at home on a fucking cushion then.

In this whole speed kils brainwashing, no one has ever told us the magic number at which you won't die.

If we all diligently do 100kph, and still have 300 people die per annum, what then...? 90 and 40kph? 70 and 30kph?

So if speed does kill please tell me what is the magic speed I can go without dying?

[Ocean1]

So if speed does kill please tell me what is the magic speed I can go without dying?

I've been researching.

:scooter:

On the nation's most dangerous road, no less.

It's somewhere between 1 and 122clicks, on account of I'm not dead.

I'll try a few more numbers tomorrow but, y'know if it's any higher than 275clicks odd I'm guna run out of puff.

[Big Dave]

please tell me what is the magic speed I can go without dying?

42

<tenchars> </tenchars>

[Littleman]

I'll admit it .. I frequently exceed 200 klicks on the open road ... I got a speeding ticket last week (eight days ago) for 120 klicks ... (I was going faster than that .. )

I haven't had a crash since 1999 .. when some turkey went thru' a give way sign and I hit them ... (They were prosecuted) ...

Many here would regard me as crazy and dangerous ... as yes, I'm thinking I need to slow down because I now have more than 50 demerit poits, so one high speed ticket (between 135 and 140 klicks) could cost me my licence (again) ... and I'm too old for that shit ... But I'm NOT considering slowing down because I think I'm too dangerous ...

This thread isn't about you.

[blackdog]

I'll try a few more numbers tomorrow but, y'know if it's any higher than 275clicks odd I'm guna run out of puff.

:rofl: i have to assume thats on a different weapon to the 1125CR

[Ocean1]

:rofl: i have to assume thats on a different weapon to the 1125CR

Duno, haven't looked at teh specs and, as I say I haven't pushed it much.

Wot, with not wanting to die an' all...

[blackdog]

Duno, haven't looked at teh specs and, as I say I haven't pushed it much.

Wot, with not wanting to die an' all...

if she's stock you'll be running outta puff around 240-245

let us know how you get on :apumpin:

[The Stranger]

Still way to obvious for ya is it!
If they obey the speed limits and all other road laws and still die, then it won't be their fault.

Shit it's not so obvious to me.
I mean either way they're still dead right?
So would I feel any different if I'm dead and it's my fault or not my fault?

[Quasievil]

Speeding tickets are voluntary:msn-wink:

[miloking]

Can someone please look at fucking statistics on HOW MANY motorcyclists killed OTHER road users due to speeding (or being at fault)....because i have a sneaky feeling its NONE! (so fuck your 51% vs 49% of whos at fault)

So am i being told how to ride to protect other road users?...oh thats right, nanny state is protecting my wellbeing! Well fuck it i didnt ask for it (and pay my ACC from wage) so mind you own fucking business...

[BoristheBiter]

Can someone please look at fucking statistics on HOW MANY motorcyclists killed OTHER road users due to speeding (or being at fault)....because i have a sneaky feeling its NONE! (so fuck your 51% vs 49% of whos at fault)

So am i being told how to ride to protect other road users?...oh thats right, nanny state is protecting my wellbeing! Well fuck it i didnt ask for it (and pay my ACC from wage) so mind you own fucking business...

How about protecting you from the other road users on the road??

Fuck you can be a dumb muppet at times.

[miloking]

How about protecting you from the other road users on the road??

Fuck you can be a dumb muppet at times.

Muppet or not, you missed my point... no amount of legislation is going to protect me from other road users, also shouldnt there be two sets of speed limits then??? one for motorcyclists (since we only endanger ourselves = our choice) and one for car/truck/bus drivers since they are danger to everyone else?

[DougieNZ]

Thanks for the replies - and for quite a few illustrating my point so well!

[BoristheBiter]

Muppet or not, you missed my point... no amount of legislation is going to protect me from other road users, also shouldnt there be two sets of speed limits then??? one for motorcyclists (since we only endanger ourselves = our choice) and one for car/truck/bus drivers since they are danger to everyone else?

The cost of cleaning up a dead body off the road is around 300k.

you put that money up and ride as fast as you like, but you might take someone else out, maybe your pillion so then it would be 600K, you can get it back if you don't die.

Sound like a plan??

[Quasievil]

The cost of cleaning up a dead body off the road is around 300k.



Bollocks............

[miloking]

The cost of cleaning up a dead body off the road is around 300k.

you put that money up and ride as fast as you like, but you might take someone else out, maybe your pillion so then it would be 600K, you can get it back if you don't die.

Sound like a plan??

300K to pick up/bag & tag a body? Realy how do you even justify that amount....

as much as i wouldnt want to be doing that job myself and have some respect for the people that have to go knock on the door of the relatives.
300k sounds bit steep also with pillion it cant simply be just double price since they will already have all the brooms to sweep up the road already with them, so no extra call out...its just one extra black bag to bring with them

fuck it, iam happy to share black bag with my pillion if it saves tax payer money :D (only if its a girl, otherwise that would be gay)

[Scuba_Steve]

The cost of cleaning up a dead body off the road is around 300k.

you put that money up and ride as fast as you like, but you might take someone else out, maybe your pillion so then it would be 600K, you can get it back if you don't die.

Sound like a plan??

300K? how da hell is it that inefficient & expensive? give me 69K per body & I'll go round doing it that's a 231k per body saving

[Katman]

Ditto and well put, Odd phrase Mr Kat,I'm sure the type of rider you frequently disparage in these pages 'feel safe' when riding.


Do I feel safe when on my bike? Apart from when I'm sitting on her in the garage going, "Brmmm, brmmm, brmmm", NO!

I always feel slightly nervous. I'm always scanning looking out for things like potholes, tar weeps, white paint if it's wet, shingle, if that upcoming corner is safe at this speed, cars which might pull out of a side street or a parking space, cars which might turn across my path, pedestrians who might step out. When I'm on my bike I'm as aware as I can be.



Don't go mistaking my feeling of being 'safe' on a bike as an indication of me being unaware. It is the very fact that I am totally aware of my surroundings and confident in my ability to compensate for the inadequacies of other road users that allows me to feel 'safe'.

I don't buy into the "Motorcycling is dangerous" theory. It has inherent risks (but so does getting out of bed each day) that can be minimised by good management.

[Ronin]

Bollocks............

Pretty sure they are included in the price.

[BoristheBiter]

300K? how da hell is it that inefficient & expensive? give me 69K per body & I'll go round doing it that's a 231k per body saving

police, SCU, ambos, fire. ACC payout

It takes a lot more than most of you realize. Its not just put a body in a bag and drop it off at the next of kin with a note.

[Scuba_Steve]

police, SCU, ambos, fire.

It takes a lot more than most of you realize. Its not just put a body in a bag and drop it off at the next of kin with a note.

but its not 300k to clean-up a body is it these groups are getting paid regardless they could all be sitting round eating donuts and drinking coffee and we'd still be paying 300K or near to it.

[BoristheBiter]

but its not 300k to clean-up a body is it these groups are getting paid regardless they could all be sitting round eating donuts and drinking coffee and we'd still be paying 300K or near to it.

Thats where you are wrong. As it is an accident and as such ACC picks up the tab for the whole thing.

And you don't get as many donuts for 300K as you might have thought.

[Banditbandit]

This thread isn't about you.

Isn't it ???? Then it's certainly about people like him preaching to people LIKE me ...

[Scuba_Steve]

Thats where you are wrong. As it is an accident and as such ACC picks up the tab for the whole thing.

And you don't get as many donuts for 300K as you might have thought.

You telling me ACC pay the cops, pay the fire, pay the ambo over & above what the Govt is already paying them???

[Banditbandit]

Can someone please look at fucking statistics on HOW MANY motorcyclists killed OTHER road users due to speeding (or being at fault)....because i have a sneaky feeling its NONE! (so fuck your 51% vs 49% of whos at fault)

So am i being told how to ride to protect other road users?...oh thats right, nanny state is protecting my wellbeing! Well fuck it i didnt ask for it (and pay my ACC from wage) so mind you own fucking business...

Happened to be one the other day in the Coromandel I believe - cornered too fast, crossed the centre-line and head on into another bike ... another last year (I believe) in the Nelson area - high speed and head on into another bike ...

[Eyegasm]

So you're telling me that it costs around $120 million a year average to clean up road fatalities. (Averaging 400 deaths per year)

Ok, I'll try an itemised receipt.

Ambo: $20,000
Fire: $20,000
Police: $20,000
Removal of vehicle: $20,000
Coroner: $20,000
Investigation: $20,000
Coffee and Donuts: $180,000

Even being generous I can not fathom 300K

[Banditbandit]

300K? how da hell is it that inefficient & expensive? give me 69K per body & I'll go round doing it that's a 231k per body saving

Shit ... save all the money ... leave the body where it is as a warning to other road users ...

[miloking]

Happened to be one the other day in the Coromandel I believe - cornered too fast, crossed the centre-line and head on into another bike ... another last year (I believe) in the Nelson area - high speed and head on into another bike ...

Cool so just 2 in recent years...not bad score considering road toll is 400-ish a year.

[avgas]

Shit ... save all the money ... leave the body where it is as a warning to other road users ...
Not such a dumb idea as it sounds.
I mean I have never crashed where others have crashed if they body + bike/car was still there.
I have always waited for them to clean it up before I crashed there.

[Scuba_Steve]

Shit ... save all the money ... leave the body where it is as a warning to other road users ...

hey I want my 69K per body given current rates thats like 27M per year or something i think.

[avgas]

I'll admit it .. I frequently exceed 200 klicks on the open road ... I got a speeding ticket last week (eight days ago) for 120 klicks ... (I was going faster than that .. )

I haven't had a crash since 1999 .. when some turkey went thru' a give way sign and I hit them ... (They were prosecuted) ...

Many here would regard me as crazy and dangerous ... as yes, I'm thinking I need to slow down because I now have more than 50 demerit poits, so one high speed ticket (between 135 and 140 klicks) could cost me my licence (again) ... and I'm too old for that shit ... But I'm NOT considering slowing down because I think I'm too dangerous ...
Hate to say it man.
But someone who crashes at high speed - usually doesn't get to have these kinds of speeches.....
Not really food for thought as it is shoving a box of dry wheetbix down your throat. But its true.
Not saying I don't do it myself........just saying that WHEN I die, if this is the cause, not doubt in my mind that people will say it as it is.
Dead heroes and motorbikes. Speed just makes it quicker.
We all pick our poisons and exits.......(huh that sounds like that Shakespeare thing....what is it? Lifes a stage?)

[Katman]

Happened to be one the other day in the Coromandel I believe - cornered too fast, crossed the centre-line and head on into another bike ... another last year (I believe) in the Nelson area - high speed and head on into another bike ...

It has happened four times in the last 2-3 years that I'm aware of, resulting in the deaths of 6 motorcyclists.

That's one of the things that fucks me off most - motorcyclists don't even seemed to be bothered considering the safety of other motorcyclists these days.

[miloking]

It has happened four times in the last 2-3 years that I'm aware of, resulting in the deaths of 6 motorcyclists.

That's one of the things that fucks me off most - motorcyclists don't even seemed to be bothered considering the safety of other motorcyclists these days.

Crossing centre line on a bike is a never good idea... whether the motorcyclists are bothered by safety of others or not.

Admitedly we are talking about less than 0.25-0.5% of the road toll here...

[PrincessBandit]

...

If we all diligently do 100kph, and still have 300 people die per annum, what then...? 90 and 40kph? 70 and 30kph?

So if speed does kill please tell me what is the magic speed I can go without dying?
I take it as speed limits being about minimising the potential for accidents; as for "if we all diligently do.....30kph" well, we'll never know will we because the likelihood of it ever happening (and being observed) is non-existent.

Muppet or not, you missed my point... no amount of legislation is going to protect me from other road users, also shouldnt there be two sets of speed limits then??? one for motorcyclists (since we only endanger ourselves = our choice) and one for car/truck/bus drivers since they are danger to everyone else?
I don't expect legislation to protect me from other road users - but I do expect my own responsibility to protect myself and those sharing the road with me from me. Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if everyone on the road placed priority on ensuring self protection and as a tangent from that protecting others from themselves. Oh nos, that might mean I have to ride/drive in a responsible manner and that automatically means I can never have fun!!!

Shit ... save all the money ... leave the body where it is as a warning to other road users ...
Woo hoo, that would be pretty graphic road kill - eeewww, two possums, five hedgehogs, a couple of pukekos and three riders.

[The Stranger]

The cost of cleaning up a dead body off the road is around 300k.


Think of all the employment created for 300k. Cops, ambos, towies, undertakers etc. They all deserve employment too.

[miloking]

I don't expect legislation to protect me from other road users - but I do expect my own responsibility to protect myself and those sharing the road with me from me. Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing if everyone on the road placed priority on ensuring self protection and as a tangent from that protecting others from themselves. Oh nos, that might mean I have to ride/drive in a responsible manner and that automatically means I can never have fun!!!



Each time I am having fun...someone pulls me over and tells me i was having the "fun" too fast.
Even though i try to tell them i was being responsible and if they observed me for bit longer they would see that it was definitely in responsible manner...they still make me pay them some money in the end. They call it some kind of "fun tax" and i just think its unfair....

[Banditbandit]

Hate to say it man.
But someone who crashes at high speed - usually doesn't get to have these kinds of speeches.....
Not really food for thought as it is shoving a box of dry wheetbix down your throat. But its true.
Not saying I don't do it myself........just saying that WHEN I die, if this is the cause, not doubt in my mind that people will say it as it is.
Dead heroes and motorbikes. Speed just makes it quicker.
We all pick our poisons and exits.......(huh that sounds like that Shakespeare thing....what is it? Lifes a stage?)

Mate .. I never expected to live to be this old ... speed, illicit drugs, illegal life style - lost a lot of friends along the way ... Now every day is a bonus ...

[BoristheBiter]

Mate .. I never expected to live to be this old ... speed, illicit drugs, illegal life style - lost a lot of friends along the way ... Now every day is a bonus ...

Tell me about it, and spent all my money.

[Katman]

Mate .. I never expected to live to be this old ... speed, illicit drugs, illegal life style - lost a lot of friends along the way ... Now every day is a bonus ...

Everyone's death impacts on others to varying degrees.

It's the degree of that impact your death imposes on others that people should stop to consider before blindly proclaiming themselves to be a little island unto themselves.

[avgas]

Mate .. I never expected to live to be this old ... speed, illicit drugs, illegal life style - lost a lot of friends along the way ... Now every day is a bonus ...
Do you spend all your bonuses like a gambler ;)

[Mad-V2]

As the old saying goes - I'm gonna leave this world the same way I came in, Bloody and Screaming.
Sad thing is I'll probably be working when it happens.
Pretty soon it will be too dangerous to go skydiving, or deep sea fishing.
Actually all you PC pricks will probably outlaw walking out the front door by the time my daughters old enough to do so by herself... SHE MIGHT BE KILLED!!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!

Already I cant,
Have a beer on the beach
Drink heavily
Take drugs
Go fast
Run next to swimming pools
Smoke in bars.
I'm not even aloud to smack my kids anymore WTF!!!

F.U.N Police
(Fucken Uncouth Nazi Police!!!)
Were only here for a short time, so fuck it I'm having a good time!

[The Stranger]

Everyone's death impacts on others to varying degrees.

It's the degree of that impact your death imposes on others that people should stop to consider before blindly proclaiming themselves to be a little island unto themselves.

That's a crock of shit and I suspect you don't even believe it yourself.
You don't go through life making decisions based on how those around you may feel.
Ever been sky diving or bungy jumping - hell walking to the diary can be dangerous, so too can not walking to the dairy.

If I lost a child by any means I can't say I'd be happy, but at least there would be some consolation if they went doing something they enjoyed and wanted to do. I think it would be harder to accept if they were randomly taken out by say someone who just didn't see them.

On a personal note I'd rather live than be alive thanks and if that means I die as a result (and who amongst us wont) so be it. My affairs are in order, my family will be taken care of.

[BoristheBiter]

That's a crock of shit and I suspect you don't even believe it yourself.
You don't go through life making decisions based on how those around you may feel.
Ever been sky diving or bungy jumping - hell walking to the diary can be dangerous, so too can not walking to the dairy.

If I lost a child by any means I can't say I'd be happy, but at least there would be some consolation if they went doing something they enjoyed and wanted to do. I think it would be harder to accept if they were randomly taken out by say someone who just didn't see them.

On a personal note I'd rather live than be alive thanks and if that means I die as a result (and who amongst us wont) so be it. My affairs are in order, my family will be taken care of.

So while i am having my fun doing 100k/hr down your street because i think i am the best rider in the world, and i lose control due to, say gravel on the road and my bike flips up and kills you while you are getting the mail you would be happy with that as i was having fun at the time?

Or what about if you are on your bike and i take you out, will you not care as you were having fun at the time as well?

[The Stranger]

Everyone's death impacts on others to varying degrees.

It's the degree of that impact your death imposes on others that people should stop to consider before blindly proclaiming themselves to be a little island unto themselves.

You got kids Katman?
Would you actually try and guilt them out like that?

[racefactory]

Everyone's death impacts on others to varying degrees.

It's the degree of that impact your death imposes on others that people should stop to consider before blindly proclaiming themselves to be a little island unto themselves.

Have to call BULLSHIT. That's the biggest tripe i've ever heard... fuck you have to do better than that my son.

[Banditbandit]

Everyone's death impacts on others to varying degrees.

It's the degree of that impact your death imposes on others that people should stop to consider before blindly proclaiming themselves to be a little island unto themselves.

See .. I ain't got no kids (celibacy is a wonderful thing :facepalm: for all the dicks who think I'm serious) ... when we die we are dead .. who gives a Flying Fuck what happens in the world after that - my insurance will pay the mortgage and my wife wil be fine ..


Do you spend all your bonuses like a gambler ;)

Yeah - pretty much ... why not? At least I have fun EVERY day ..:woohoo:

[The Stranger]

So while i am having my fun doing 100k/hr down your street because i think i am the best rider in the world, and i lose control due to, say gravel on the road and my bike flips up and kills you while you are getting the mail you would be happy with that as i was having fun at the time?

Or what about if you are on your bike and i take you out, will you not care as you were having fun at the time as well?

I was responding to Katmans post.

"It's the degree of that impact your death imposes on others that people should stop to consider before blindly proclaiming themselves to be a little island unto themselves."

So to be sure I'm not about to consider the impact my death has on others, nor limit my actions based on this.

So now to your topic.
In your scenarios I'll be dead, so I doubt I'll be capable of giving a fuck about anything - unless you know (not KB know, but real know) something about the after life you're not sharing with me.

[Katman]

The point I'm making is, if there are enough deaths caused by people acting like idiots on motorcycles to the point where the government says "fuck you all, we're banning motorcycles" do you not think that people might do well to consider the impact their stupidity has on others?

[BoristheBiter]

I was responding to Katmans post.

"It's the degree of that impact your death imposes on others that people should stop to consider before blindly proclaiming themselves to be a little island unto themselves."

So to be sure I'm not about to consider the impact my death has on others, nor limit my actions based on this.

So now to your topic.
In your scenarios I'll be dead, so I doubt I'll be capable of giving a fuck about anything - unless you know (not KB know, but real know) something about the after life you're not sharing with me.

But what if i take one of your kids out?

[Mad-V2]

What if?!!!

[Katman]

Another one......

If you smear yourself across the grille of a car when you run wide on a corner in a failed Rossi impersonation and your severed head lands in the lap of the woman innocently driving that car, do you have the right to impose a lifetime of nightmares upon that person?

[Usarka]

Another one......

If you smear yourself across the grille of a car when you run wide on a corner in a failed Rossi impersonation and your severed head lands in the lap of the woman innocently driving that car, do you have the right to impose a lifetime of nightmares upon that person?

What if you fall off your bike, slide through a plate glass window, one arm flies up and gets caught by a bird yaaddaaa yadddaa yadddaaa zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Katman]

I was responding to Katmans post.



And in fact Boris' post is a perfect example........

If a motorcyclist is acting like a fuckwit and in the course of the accident that kills him his bike slams into a child killing them as well the parents of that child should be happy with the imposition that motorcyclist has made on their lives?

Come on Noel, you're starting to sound like you've been hanging around teenagers too long.

[miloking]

But what if i take one of your kids out?


Another one......

If you smear yourself across the grille of a car when you run wide on a corner in a failed Rossi impersonation and your severed head lands in the lap of the woman innocently driving that car, do you have the right to impose a lifetime of nightmares upon that person?

Where the fuck do you guys come up with this shit???? What if..aliens come and make me crash into schoolbus, while speeding and my severed head bashes innocent bystander standing on the side of the road to death...yadda yadda.

You guys are clutching straws thats whats going on with your argument....

People like you two make me want to go out right now and ride at 200km/h thru auckland CBD so you can watch it on tonights news and SHIT A FUCKING BRICK (*normaly i wouldnt just for record)

[Katman]

Where the fuck do you guys come up with this shit???? What if..aliens come and make me crash into schoolbus, while speeding and my severed head bashes innocent bystander standing on the side of the road to death...yadda yadda.

You guys are clutching straws thats whats going on with your argument....

People like you two make me want to go out right now and ride at 200km/h thru auckland CBD so you can watch it on tonights news and SHIT A FUCKING BRICK!

Yep, nobody ever considers consequences until after the fact.

[miloking]

Yep, nobody ever considers consequences until after the fact.

YES we do...we all do consider consequences! (everybody at different degree of course)
Do you realy believe that we all (evil speedsters) are so selfish and irresponsible that all we think of is how to have fun while having 0% consideration for others????

[FJRider]

People like you two make me want to go out right now and ride at 200km/h thru auckland CBD so you can watch it on tonights news and SHIT A FUCKING BRICK (*normaly i wouldnt just for record)

With current Dorkland traffic ... GOOD LUCK .... :niceone:

[Grubber]

That's a crock of shit and I suspect you don't even believe it yourself.
You don't go through life making decisions based on how those around you may feel.
Ever been sky diving or bungy jumping - hell walking to the diary can be dangerous, so too can not walking to the dairy.

If I lost a child by any means I can't say I'd be happy, but at least there would be some consolation if they went doing something they enjoyed and wanted to do. I think it would be harder to accept if they were randomly taken out by say someone who just didn't see them.

On a personal note I'd rather live than be alive thanks and if that means I die as a result (and who amongst us wont) so be it. My affairs are in order, my family will be taken care of.


You got kids Katman?
Would you actually try and guilt them out like that?


Have to call BULLSHIT. That's the biggest tripe i've ever heard... fuck you have to do better than that my son.


See .. I ain't got no kids (celibacy is a wonderful thing :facepalm: for all the dicks who think I'm serious) ... when we die we are dead .. who gives a Flying Fuck what happens in the world after that - my insurance will pay the mortgage and my wife wil be fine ..



Yeah - pretty much ... why not? At least I have fun EVERY day ..:woohoo:


Yep, nobody ever considers consequences until after the fact.

All youse fellas obviously got no freinds huh!:niceone:
Ceptin Katman of coarse!!! How true that last statement seems to be right now.

[BoristheBiter]

Where the fuck do you guys come up with this shit???? What if..aliens come and make me crash into schoolbus, while speeding and my severed head bashes innocent bystander standing on the side of the road to death...yadda yadda.

You guys are clutching straws thats whats going on with your argument....

People like you two make me want to go out right now and ride at 200km/h thru auckland CBD so you can watch it on tonights news and SHIT A FUCKING BRICK (*normaly i wouldnt just for record)

Just because you have no empathy doesn't give you the right to be a complete fuckwit on the road, or cry like a little girl because you got picked on by the cops while doing so.

[Grubber]

Just because you have no empathy doesn't give you the right to be a complete fuckwit on the road, or cry like a little girl because you got picked on by the cops while doing so.

Bugger...wish i had seen this one before i quoted that last lot.
Point well made!:msn-wink:

[BoristheBiter]

YES we do...we all do consider consequences! (everybody at different degree of course)
Do you realy believe that we all (evil speedsters) are so selfish and irresponsible that all we think of is how to have fun while having 0% consideration for others????

You have no balls. you are just a keyboard warrior. go out and do that then. Your all fucking talk. no wonder you left what ever country your from they all knew you were full of shit.

O that's right there are corners.

[Grubber]

YES we do...we all do consider consequences! (everybody at different degree of course)
Do you realy believe that we all (evil speedsters) are so selfish and irresponsible that all we think of is how to have fun while having 0% consideration for others????

I'm afraid to say it, but some do exactly that!

[MSTRS]

Jesus wept!! Youse fullas actually listening to each other?

FFS - if/when 'you' are dead, you won't care. Big deal...

But no matter what you've put in place for your dependents, they will be DRAMATICALLY and IRREVOCABLY affected by your death. As will the dependents of any poor bastard you take out in the course of killing yourself.

That's the simple truth.

[Swoop]

Sit at home on a fucking cushion then.
While wearing an osh-approved hi-viz vest, of course. Can't be too careful.

300K to pick up/bag & tag a body? Realy how do you even justify that amount...
Think about all the committee's that have to be formed, "researchers" who have to fund a lifestyle, and paper-pushers everywhere who thrive off of bureaucratic bullshit funded by the taxpayer.

[miloking]

Just because you have no empathy doesn't give you the right to be a complete fuckwit on the road, or cry like a little girl because you got picked on by the cops while doing so.


You have no balls. you are just a keyboard warrior. go out and do that then. Your all fucking talk. no wonder you left what ever country your from they all knew you were full of shit.

O that's right there are corners.

haha classic...you cant win simple argument so you start bringing other irrelevant shit into this! What is NZ police got to do with this?
And me moving to NZ from other country?

Oh thats right being full of shit is the leading reason for immigration these days....
so you are right i better take care while riding :) WTF is your point...

[Banditbandit]

Another one......

If you smear yourself across the grille of a car when you run wide on a corner in a failed Rossi impersonation and your severed head lands in the lap of the woman innocently driving that car, do you have the right to impose a lifetime of nightmares upon that person?

(In the voice of Hippy Neil from The Young Ones ...)

OOOOOO .. Bad Karma man !!!!

[Katman]

Do you realy believe that we all (evil speedsters) are so selfish and irresponsible that all we think of is how to have fun while having 0% consideration for others????

Is that a serious question?

[Banditbandit]

Jesus wept!! Youse fullas actually listening to each other?

FFS - if/when 'you' are dead, you won't care. Big deal...

But no matter what you've put in place for your dependents, they will be DRAMATICALLY and IRREVOCABLY affected by your death. As will the dependents of any poor bastard you take out in the course of killing yourself.

That's the simple truth.

Yeah man .. when my old man flipped his car into a bridge and was killed I was Dramatically and Irrevocably affected .. I was so fucking happy the nasty cunt was out of my life PERMENANTLY !!!!

[Banditbandit]

Is that a serious question?

Can't be man. After all, you're sitting on 90 demerit points (you didn't get those on your keyboard) ...

[miloking]

Can't be man. After all, you're sitting on 90 demerit points (didn't get those on your keyboard) ...

Me on the other hand...0 demerits, clean slate! (Got my licence back last week)...so hopefuly will make it thru summer with that :D

[miloking]

Is that a serious question?

if i say yes ...you will just tell me that iam naive or stupid or something in that tone...

But truthfuly you cannot say (and be serious) that everybody who likes to ride "bit fast" is irresponsible and doesnt think of consequences...

[Banditbandit]

Me on the other hand...0 demerits, clean slate! (Got my licence back last week)...so hopefuly will make it thru summer with that :D

Good luck .. I got my licence back in September and already had 35 demerits .. and added another 20 last week ... If I can make it to the end of May without a ticket then at least they will be in the 2 year range, not the one year range ... And one more at 35 klicks or more over and I'm gone again ..

[BoristheBiter]

haha classic...you cant win simple argument so you start bringing other irrelevant shit into this! What is NZ police got to do with this?
And me moving to NZ from other country?

Oh thats right being full of shit is the leading reason for immigration these days....
so you are right i better take care while riding :) WTF is your point...

The point is you are full of shit. If you truly believed what you write on here you would have rode without a licence because you don't think/care about the consequence of your actions.

[Katman]

if i say yes ...you will just tell me that iam naive or stupid or something in that tone...

But truthfuly you cannot say (and be serious) that everybody who likes to ride "bit fast" is irresponsible and doesnt think of consequences...

Define "a bit fast". My tickets for 116kph and 125kph on the Desert Road were "a bit fast".

200+ kph falls into a different category.

[Ronin]

Me on the other hand...0 demerits, clean slate! (Got my licence back last week)...so hopefuly will make it thru summer with that :D

You mean week before last surely...

[Banditbandit]

Define "a bit fast". My tickets for 116kph and 125kph on the Desert Road were "a bit fast".

200+ kph falls into a different category.

So ... the truth comes out ... 125 klicks .. Look out .. quite a few people here will tell you that's too fast ...

And your credibility with the nanny cruisers and safety freaks has just crashed ...

[miloking]

Good luck .. I got my licence back in September and already had 35 demerits .. and added another 20 last week ... If I can make it to the end of May without a ticket then at least they will be in the 2 year range, not the one year range ... And one more at 35 klicks or more over and I'm gone again ..

Well i feel like its waste right now not having any demerits ticking over their 2 years expiry date :) ...all this time of beeing "good" should count too i reckon...

[Katman]

And your credibility with the nanny cruisers and safety freaks has just crashed ...

I can't see why.

I have never said "never exceed the speed limit" and I have also never believed that an arbitrary figure makes for a safe speed limit.

[miloking]

The point is you are full of shit. If you truly believed what you write on here you would have rode without a licence because you don't think/care about the consequence of your actions.

haha and i would come and admit that on a open forum full of faggot cops who can just go and park up in front of my house and bust me on my way to work....do you realy think iam that stupid!!!! (oh wait..never mind)

maybe i did maybe i didnt....

[miloking]

Define "a bit fast". My tickets for 116kph and 125kph on the Desert Road were "a bit fast".

200+ kph falls into a different category.

I agree on that....116 or 125 is bit fast, 200 is something "else"...

[miloking]

You mean week before last surely...


Sorry, you are right. It was on 12th of jan...so almost two weeks now...

[wysper]

Woo hoo, that would be pretty graphic road kill - eeewww, two possums, five hedgehogs, a couple of pukekos and three riders.

That's pretty chilling when put like that if you think about it.
I kind of got a mental picture in my mind. Not nice. Shame the people that you would be targeting to change their behaviour would most likely find it funny.

[BoristheBiter]

haha and i would come and admit that on a open forum full of faggot cops who can just go and park up in front of my house and bust me on my way to work....do you realy think iam that stupid!!!! (oh wait..never mind)

maybe i did maybe i didnt....

But hang on you're the keyboard warrior, full of fuck this and fuck that that, i do what i want because fuck the consequence for i am the great miloking. or are you just full of hot air?

And see there's that thing with the cops again. and you talk about me bringing it up.

[The Stranger]

But what if i take one of your kids out?

I'd kill you. Pretty simple really, an eye for an eye.
I have a great respect for the life of others. If you don't then I see no reason why I should respect your life.

None of that is contradictory to anything I said so what's your point?

Sounds to me like you are on a crusade to save the 1 innocent that dies a year in NZ from maurading morotcyclists? Shit, good luck there. More innocent people die each year in NZ from law enforcement, perhaps you could spend some time teaching cops to pull U turns properly?

[The Stranger]

And in fact Boris' post is a perfect example........

If a motorcyclist is acting like a fuckwit and in the course of the accident that kills him his bike slams into a child killing them as well the parents of that child should be happy with the imposition that motorcyclist has made on their lives?

Come on Noel, you're starting to sound like you've been hanging around teenagers too long.

So I see you've stopped trying to justify your original flawed argument and adopted Boris' argument - sorry what electorate are you standing for?

Ok, to put this in a perspective - how many kids have died this way? 1, 10, 100?

[avgas]

think.........stupidity has on others?
Katman - please reread what you have written.
Does stupid think?

[SPman]

Crossing centre line on a bike is a never good idea... whether the motorcyclists are bothered by safety of others or not.

Crossing the centreline on anything is not a good idea - and if you can't ride/drive without doing that, under any conditions, you shouldn't be in charge of a motor vehicle on the road!

[Mad-V2]

If you are all worried about early death, you should really be focusing on things like Heart disease, Cancer, Diabetes, General misdiagnosis of illnesses and prescription of the wrong medicines. These are the biggest killers in New Zealand, Not motorcycle/car accidents. We just get alot of shit because the mess we leave behind is somewhat traumatic to anyone who comes across us lying there with missing limbs or whatever. I have pulled two people from written off cars that were in a bad way, but it has not given me nightmares for the rest of my life. Imagine if surgeons, Fire fighters, soldiers and police had nightmares of the shit they see on a daily basis. If it affected them like people here think, they would all retire after the first call out.
In short - We are all gonna die! Get used to it!

[MSTRS]

We are all gonna die! Get used to it!

Yes. We are. But most are not that keen on doing so before they 'have to'...and if you were given the choice, I'm sure you'd rather it happened to you tomorrow than today. Know what I mean?

[Katman]

So I see you've stopped trying to justify your original flawed argument and adopted Boris' argument - sorry what electorate are you standing for?



There's nothing flawed in my argument posted at #108.

The only flaw is in your interpretation of it.

[Mad-V2]

Yes. We are. But most are not that keen on doing so before they 'have to'...and if you were given the choice, I'm sure you'd rather it happened to you tomorrow than today. Know what I mean?

So you think if you go slow on a bike, you'll live till your 100?
In reality you could die tonight trying to force out a shit, or tomorrow morning falling over in the shower

Reality

[MSTRS]

I never said 'go slow and live longer'...
Whatt I said stands on it's own, however you may choose to interpret it.

[Banditbandit]

Post 108


Everyone's death impacts on others to varying degrees.

It's the degree of that impact your death imposes on others that people should stop to consider before blindly proclaiming themselves to be a little island unto themselves.


There's nothing flawed in my argument posted at #108.

The only flaw is in your interpretation of it.

That's not an argument - that's a statement ....

[Katman]

So you think if you go slow on a bike, you'll live till your 100?
In reality you could die tonight trying to force out a shit, or tomorrow morning falling over in the shower

Reality

To what degree do you believe you have the right to impose risk on others?

[Banditbandit]

Well .. this thread's certainly been some amusement today ... don't kill each other with the keyboards when I'm gone children ...

By morning this will be up to page 25 ...

It's to be keyboards and mice at 20 paces on the grassland just south of Turangi is it?

[PrincessBandit]

(In the voice of Hippy Neil from The Young Ones ...)

OOOOOO .. Bad Karma man !!!!

You must spread the love, i mean the green, more before giving more to banditbandit

[Katman]

That's not an argument - that's a statement ....

Tell that to Noel - he's the one who thought it was an argument.:bleh:

[R-Soul]

So that makes it ok then?

No it makes it a lot less likely.

[BoristheBiter]

I'd kill you. Pretty simple really, an eye for an eye.
I have a great respect for the life of others. If you don't then I see no reason why I should respect your life.

None of that is contradictory to anything I said so what's your point?

Sounds to me like you are on a crusade to save the 1 innocent that dies a year in NZ from maurading morotcyclists? Shit, good luck there. More innocent people die each year in NZ from law enforcement, perhaps you could spend some time teaching cops to pull U turns properly?

Hang on. You were talking about you don't care if you die as you have everything sorted, now that argument has been turned around you don't like it.

"So to be sure I'm not about to consider the impact my death has on others, nor limit my actions based on this." Your words not mine.

If my crusade helps one person even think about the consequence of there actions then what is wrong with that?

The eye for an eye thing, thats what i want but we won't see that in this PC world. Its the consequence thing again see where I'm going with this?

[Mad-V2]

To what degree do you believe you have the right to impose risk on others?

No right what so ever, and yet people from all walks of life (police included) feel they can risk my life by speeding through my work sites. Whats your point? All I'm saying is, You WILL die! No escape! You probably have more chance of being hit by a bus than a speeding motorcyclist. Get a Grip!

[Katman]

No right what so ever, and yet people from all walks of life (police included) feel they can risk my life by speeding through my work sites. Whats your point? All I'm saying is, You WILL die! No escape! You probably have more chance of being hit by a bus than a speeding motorcyclist. Get a Grip!

So people should be able to do whatever speed they like - just not through your work sites?

[Mad-V2]

So people should be able to do whatever speed they like - just not through your work sites?

Correct, or any roadwork site for that matter, as there are people working ON the road, dipshit. I don't speed excessively in town, I do it where there are the least hazards as possible, as I don't want to die young or kill anyone. I think a speeding motorcyclist is the most aware and alert person using the road. where as people cruising down the motorway in their automatic with the heater on and the stereo full noise, talking on their phone while eating a burger are quite dangerous. But thats just the opinion of a reckless speeder who spares no thought for any other person on the planet. Hopefully I don't see you on the road somewhere coz I may be speeding, and apparently there's a good chance I will kill you coz I'm dangerous.

[madbikeboy]

HOLY SHIT, WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE?!?!?!

12 pages of shite, haven't you fuckers got a life?

Be nice to each other. Ride with care. Know when to speed. Don't fuck anyone else up if you fuck up. Don't ride when messed up, fucked up, or tired. Ride within your limits. Get good training. Ride ATGATT. Lock up your daughters from guys like Craver. And your sons. Hug the people you care about. Have a will. Wash your hands after using the bathroom.

[BoristheBiter]

HOLY SHIT, WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE?!?!?!

12 pages of shite, haven't you fuckers got a life?

Be nice to each other. Ride with care. Know when to speed. Don't fuck anyone else up if you fuck up. Don't ride when messed up, fucked up, or tired. Ride within your limits. Get good training. Ride ATGATT. Lock up your daughters from guys like Craver. And your sons. Hug the people you care about. Have a will. Wash your hands after using the bathroom.

Why didn't you just say that at the start, i might have got some work done.

[Katman]

Correct, or any roadwork site for that matter, as there are people working ON the road, dipshit.

What's the difference between them and anyone else on the road?

[Berries]

No right what so ever, and yet people from all walks of life (police included) feel they can risk my life by speeding through my work sites.
And how often do you see a site that complies with COPTTM ? It is no wonder people 'speed' through work sites when they are so often poorly set out. Sorry, off topic, but it pisses me off.

[Mad-V2]

:killingme

Usually I have a life. Unfortunately for you people......I had the day off :bleh:

In any work site there will be a number of hazards to look for especially on a bike. People, gravel, stationary vehicles, cones, signs and potholes.
Common sense would tell me to slow down and be cautious. (Drive to the conditions)
On the open road, vehicles should be going with the flow of traffic at 100kph.
So long as you can see clearly ahead of you, there is light or no traffic, your not in town or on the motorway,
you have plenty of experience and your not under the influence of any substances, you should be fine to travel at any speed within your limits.

[Katman]

On the open road, vehicles should be going with the flow of traffic at 100kph.
So long as you can see clearly ahead of you, there is light or no traffic, your not in town or on the motorway,
you have plenty of experience and your not under the influence of any substances, you should be fine to travel at any speed within your limits.

Do you think the person waiting at the side road 300 metres down the road recognises the fact that the motorcycle is doing 250 kph instead of the 100 kph that they are relying on that would give them time to pull out?

[Mad-V2]

Do you think the person waiting at the side road 300 metres down the road recognises the fact that the motorcycle is doing 250 kph instead of the 100 kph that they are relying on to give them time to pull out?

No, and thats why you should always look to see if they have seen you.
And if your not sure, slow down and make sure.
Isn't all this shit in the road code? we also have signs to show sideroads ahead so you should be taking care anyway.

[Katman]

we also have signs to show sideroads ahead so you should be taking care anyway.

What about driveways?

[Mad-V2]

driveways are used to access one's property?

[The Stranger]

Hang on. You were talking about you don't care if you die as you have everything sorted, now that argument has been turned around you don't like it.

"So to be sure I'm not about to consider the impact my death has on others, nor limit my actions based on this." Your words not mine.

If my crusade helps one person even think about the consequence of there actions then what is wrong with that?

The eye for an eye thing, thats what i want but we won't see that in this PC world. Its the consequence thing again see where I'm going with this?


Where did I say anything about not caring if I die. What exactly are you smoking and where did you get it?
I did say that the impact my death may have on others is not going to influence my thinking in my actions and that I'm happy that my kids will be taken care of if I do(call it responsibility). That's quite different from not caring.

Now I can see where the simple amongst you may well be tempted to consider some random possibility (a motorcycle taking out a child - I'm still waiting for the stats on this one by the way) as a credible threat. We've even had the gun nuts on KB wanting to ban motorcycles because someone could swing a claw hammer from a rope whilst riding thus killing an innocent bystander - yes, this happend on KB, go look in the gun nut threads - actually come to think of it, you'd fit right in over there, logic is not their strong point either.

The simple fact of the matter is - it doesn't happen or is so infrequent as to say it doesn't. If you really are that upset about the dangers to kiddies about 500 kids & infants die a year in NZ from real causes. Wouldn't you be better employed saving these kids from the real threats?

[Katman]

I did say that the impact my death may have on others is not going to influence my thinking in my actions

Even if the manner of your death takes the life of an innocent party?

[FJRider]

Even if the manner of your death takes the life of an innocent party?

I doubt if he plans it that way ...

[Katman]

I doubt if he plans it that way ...

I'm sure he doesn't.

It was a question for a whole lot more people than just Noel.

[FJRider]

I'm sure he doesn't.

And few cases where anybody does ... just the thought that somebody else will get hurt or killed by what they are doing ... well ... isn't thought of ...

[Katman]

And few cases where anybody does ... just the thought that somebody else will get hurt or killed by what they are doing ... well ... isn't thought of ...

Yep, refer post #124.

[Berries]

In 18 years riding. I've never made an motorcycle insurance claim. Never been in hospital or claimed ACC as result of riding motorcycle. Am sure many other riders are in the same boat. Put simply, why the fuck should I spend over a grand regoing two 70something horsepower bikes every year? Where's my fuggin no claims bonus. It's fucking bullshit.
Couldn't agree more. Apart from the 70hp bit you big girl.

[The Stranger]

Even if the manner of your death takes the life of an innocent party?

Perhaps a little odd, but respect for the life of others happens to be a greater force than my desire to die. That is I'm unlikely to change my actions on account of the impact of my death on others, more likely I would be changing them out of respect for someone elses life.

Is any road death acceptable? Well obviously it is, hell it's so acceptable that we even have a target. So, anyone who uses the road must accept 2 things. You could kill and you could be killed. If you don't accept these then you best stay off of it. It's not something we set out to do (in general) but it can happen and it aint going to change. No matter how many times you bleat on about it the sad fact is people ARE going to die on the roads and some of them will die in strange and unusual circumstances.

So the possibility that it could happen (that I take out somone else whilst killing myself riding a motorcycle) can not be ruled out. But it doesn't weigh too heavily on my mind were it to I would not drive nor ride.

[racefactory]

You're really just a big fucking hypocrite Katman because of all the reasons we choose to ride a motorcycle, safety is not one of them.

Go drive a car if you're really so bent on wanting everyone to blend in with the masses like that on the road. It's the nature of motorcycles and it's been this way since time began... You label us all as fucking hoons and selfish people not responsible for our actions, why are you still riding with us then?

[DEATH_INC.]

Even if the manner of your death takes the life of an innocent party?
You do realize that I'm far more likely to kill someone in my suv than with my bike? The argument of killing someone else really doesn't stack up.

[Katman]

You do realize that I'm far more likely to kill someone in my suv than with my bike? The argument of killing someone else really doesn't stack up.

It's stacked up four times at least that I know of and is only likely to stack higher if we don't start addressing the problem of motorcyclists using the road as their personal racetrack.

How many fuckwits on motorcycles are you prepared to tolerate crossing onto your side of the road because they over-estimated their madaz skillz?

Your argument that it's ok cos it doesn't happen very often doesn't stack up.

[racefactory]

Katman, I have a question for you and I'm really not trying to wind you up. I'm only 21 and don't really understand the whole situation as it must be and in your books I'm probably one of the ones corrupting our image.

You must have been around for a long time now and seen a lot. Surely you know motorcycles have been like this since time began and the root of the problem just lies in human nature. Instead of fighting an ever losing battle... why don't you focus your efforts into doing something to provide easily accessible and cheaper track days?

I highly doubt there is really any regular member on Kiwibiker that is an example of the bad road behavior and racing attitude that you highlight. The fact of the matter is that people doing this 'racing' and painting us with this image are not going to be the ones talking about it all day on KB. Therefore I believe that if you want to combat this problem, doing something like the above suggestion would be a far more effective solution than whinging about it on here as you need to reach the message to all those who are the real ones you are meaning to target. These are the people who are not part of the community and will never set foot in this place, consequently never being educated as how to get time on the track. I believe it is suppression of this experience that is the major root of your problem having known and ridden with such road users.

I for one would be a major supporter.

[DEATH_INC.]

It's stacked up four times at least that I know of and is only likely to stack higher if we don't start addressing the problem of motorcyclists using the road as their personal racetrack.
Now THIS I object to. I've seen more riders cross the centerline cruising than going fast. I've personally had way more crashes riding to work than caning it on the open road.
Do you have figures (not one's saying speed was a factor, because they say that about all accidents), good concrete one's, to back that up?

[Katman]

Come on Andy, you're not that naive.

99% of the time when motorcyclists cross the centre line due to over-cooking a corner, whether it be on a sportsbike or on a cruiser (I've seen far too many Harley primary cases scraped to wafer thin to imagine it's only a sportsbike problem) is due to one of two reasons. Either they are so clueless they don't know how to get around corners or they are playing their own little Rossi playstation in their heads.

And for every over-cooked corner that results in death or serious injury there are another 10 that escaped by the skin of their teeth.

[Banditbandit]

TIme for the silly hats thread ...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWvp0S4MzeAypQDVuUaVBLe2LkcCVu9 FzS5nAwxBODVYX4joY7&t=1

[riffer]

I highly doubt there is really any regular member on Kiwibiker that is an example of the bad road behavior and racing attitude that you highlight. The fact of the matter is that people doing this 'racing' and painting us with this image are not going to be the ones talking about it all day on KB. Therefore I believe that if you want to combat this problem, doing something like the above suggestion would be a far more effective solution than whinging about it on here as you need to reach the message to all those who are the real ones you are meaning to target. These are the people who are not part of the community and will never set foot in this place, consequently never being educated as how to get time on the track. I believe it is suppression of this experience that is the major root of your problem having known and ridden with such road users.

I for one would be a major supporter.

Dude your words don't quite gel with your bike description and your Schwantz quote... most riders have the capacity to be just the idiots you describe at some time. Its just dumb luck usually that gets them away with it.

[racefactory]

And other people don't have such bikes and don't like such quotes?

I give you my word you will not catch me riding like a fuck in a built up public area as a threat to others.

[Scuba_Steve]

I like Taco's!!:yes:

[Eyegasm]

TIme for the silly hats thread ...

Woohoo SILLY HATS

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2008/06/SILLY%20HAT8.jpg

[Ronin]

I like Taco's!!:yes:

Mmmmmm moist Taco

[riffer]

And other people don't have such bikes and don't like such quotes?

I give you my word you will not catch me riding like a fuck in a built up public area as a threat to others.

Maybe. But what about on the open road? You do have a fire-breathing Duc 996...

[R-Soul]

I'm not picking on you personally, but I wish people would think before regurgitating the police line on speed. Speed does not cause accidents. Not on it's own.

Aren't you just talking semantics? Speed may not "cause" accidents directly.

BUT: Its the lack of reaction time or reduced safety envelope caused by speed that makes accidents more likely in the event of something unpredictable happening.
Or
The lack of grip cause by excess speed and inadequate control. Schmucks dont miss corners and/or slide off because they were going too slowly...

It may not be the direct "cause", but it definitely contributes in a major way. Thinking otherwise is just dumb.

[MSTRS]

I highly doubt there is really any regular member on Kiwibiker that is an example of the bad road behavior and racing attitude that you highlight.

You've not been around very long, have you?

[p.dath]

Katman, I have a question for you and I'm really not trying to wind you up. I'm only 21 and don't really understand the whole situation as it must be and in your books I'm probably one of the ones corrupting our image.

I'm nearly 40, and I think I only just "got it" in the last 5 years. I only wish I had the opportunity for more road user education 20 years ago.


Surely you know motorcycles have been like this since time began and the root of the problem just lies in human nature.

It's the effect of our culture of road use, and what we pass down from parent to children, and what they observe their peers doing. We can change it, but it will take an entire generation.


Instead of fighting an ever losing battle... why don't you focus your efforts into doing something to provide easily accessible and cheaper track days?

Part of the solution, but not the answer. It's attitudes that need to change.


I highly doubt there is really any regular member on Kiwibiker that is an example of the bad road behavior and racing attitude that you highlight.

Please wait, need to change my underwear. Pissed myself laughing so hard.

Here's a test. Start a thread with a poll. Ask those people who have been in a motorcycle accident if it was there fault. I bet most would say that someone else was to blame for their misfortune.


Therefore I believe that if you want to combat this problem, doing something like the above suggestion would be a far more effective solution than whinging about it on here as you need to reach the message to all those who are the real ones you are meaning to target.

Repeat the same message enough times and people will start to listen. Have you noticed they don't put adverts on TV just once - how they keep repeating them - especially infomercials?

[miloking]

Repeat the same message enough times and people will start to listen. Have you noticed they don't put adverts on TV just once - how they keep repeating them - especially infomercials?

I thought the saying was : repeat the lie enough times and it becomes the truth...by the way hearing the same TV adds gets pretty annoying, realy fast!

[DEATH_INC.]

What I'm saying is it's often lack of attention and poor judgement that makes mistakes. For all the one's caused by entering a corner too hot when doing your 'rossi' impersonation, many are done when you're a lot less attentative to what is coming up.
Speed may shorten the amount of reaction time avaliable, but again you are generally paying more attention.
Also I'd like to think that those who ride faster tend to have better tyres and stuff too.

[Mad-V2]

Ha Ha, Funny hats.

http://www.odt.co.nz/files/user8429/community_police_1__Medium_.jpg
Not even these idiots can slow me down!!!

In fact, Katman, Batman, superman or wonder woman couldn't either as I have no self control when I get on my bike. And if 30 grand in fines over 18 years wont slow me down, only a sudden impact will. But my job on the road is 10 times more dangerous than my speed, as I see at least 5 complete and utter idiots in cars a day on the road. It will be one of them that kills me first!
I have never seen an accident whilst out on the bike nor have I had one, but in the last 14 years in my job I have pulled two people from destroyed cars, I've been rear ended twice, seen two cars slide off the road and I'm nearly killed at least twice a week by dumb fucks who don't know the road rules. If ya want to save people, go on a cycling website. Those idiots ride on State Highways, two abreast with no consideration to any other road users. They get full cover from ACC and free cycleway networks that they don't even use half the time, And who pays for all that? Not them, they spend their money on fucken gay cycle suits that would never protect them in any type of accident!

[Katman]

I have no self control when I get on my bike...... with no consideration to any other road users.

Fixed that for you.

[Mad-V2]

Tosser!!!!

[racefactory]

Ha Ha, Funny hats.

http://www.odt.co.nz/files/user8429/community_police_1__Medium_.jpg
Not even these idiots can slow me down!!!

In fact, Katman, Batman, superman or wonder woman couldn't either as I have no self control when I get on my bike. And if 30 grand in fines over 18 years wont slow me down, only a sudden impact will. But my job on the road is 10 times more dangerous than my speed, as I see at least 5 complete and utter idiots in cars a day on the road. It will be one of them that kills me first!
I have never seen an accident whilst out on the bike nor have I had one, but in the last 14 years in my job I have pulled two people from destroyed cars, I've been rear ended twice, seen two cars slide off the road and I'm nearly killed at least twice a week by dumb fucks who don't know the road rules. If ya want to save people, go on a cycling website. Those idiots ride on State Highways, two abreast with no consideration to any other road users. They get full cover from ACC and free cycleway networks that they don't even use half the time, And who pays for all that? Not them, they spend their money on fucken gay cycle suits that would never protect them in any type of accident!

Can't argue with that.

I believe if there is a serious problem with road users, namely motorcyclists who are using the roads as a race track... then there is obviously a problem with:

1. Awareness of access to race tracks.
2. Costs of accessing a race track.

I reckon if you stopped all the delinquent knee-down on the roads riders for a second, the vast majority wouldn't know how to get to a track or where to look for information. Not everyone wants to get serious join some fucking club, community forum, school or other commitments in order to just blitz around for some laps. There needs to be easy information in front of them.

You can't change the culture, it's just the nature of males- wanting to go faster and faster, taking more and more risk. Maybe not for you oldies, but for us young guns it almost always is. Effectively show them the appropriate place to satisfy this need. Just because we lot stuck into the message boards think it's easy to find an opportunity to get on track it does not mean others do.

[The Stranger]

I highly doubt there is really any regular member on Kiwibiker that is an example of the bad road behavior and racing attitude that you highlight.

There are at least 4 that I can think of that fit the bill.

[racefactory]

There are at least 4 that I can think of that fit the bill.

OK excluding me that's only 3 then :bleh:

[BoristheBiter]

Can't argue with that.

I believe if there is a serious problem with road users, namely motorcyclists who are using the roads as a race track... then there is obviously a problem with:

1. Awareness of access to race tracks.
2. Costs of accessing a race track.

I reckon if you stopped all the delinquent knee-down on the roads riders for a second, the vast majority wouldn't know how to get to a track or where to look for information. Not everyone wants to get serious join some fucking club, community forum, school or other commitments in order to just blitz around for some laps. There needs to be easy information in front of them.

You can't change the culture, it's just the nature of males- wanting to go faster and faster, taking more and more risk. Maybe not for you oldies, but for us young guns it almost always is. Effectively show them the appropriate place to satisfy this need. Just because we lot stuck into the message boards think it's easy to find an opportunity to get on track it does not mean others do.

To be so young and naive.
No matter now much track time someone has there will aways to the dick that thinks the road is a race track.

myself and my mates went as fast as i could everywhere before you were even a twinkle in your dads nutbag.

It comes down to thinking of consequence. when your young there is none, as you get older you understand the effects of your actions and change, well some do.

[Scuba_Steve]

To be so young and naive.
No matter now much track time someone has there will aways to the dick that thinks the road is a race track.

myself and my mates went as fast as i could everywhere before you were even a twinkle in your dads nutbag.

It comes down to thinking of consequence. when your young there is none, as you get older you understand the effects of your actions and change, well some do.

So what your trying to say is you been there done that now no-one else should be allowed to? "do what I say Not as I do" right?

[racefactory]

It may not stop it but I reckon it would have a pretty major effect. Just think, when they want to take that roundabout knee down they might instead think ''fuck it what's the point, I'll be going down for laps tomorrow''

[BoristheBiter]

Where did I say anything about not caring if I die. What exactly are you smoking and where did you get it?
I did say that the impact my death may have on others is not going to influence my thinking in my actions and that I'm happy that my kids will be taken care of if I do(call it responsibility). That's quite different from not caring.
NO ITS NOT it's symantics.

Now I can see where the simple amongst you may well be tempted to consider some random possibility (a motorcycle taking out a child - I'm still waiting for the stats on this one by the way) as a credible threat. We've even had the gun nuts on KB wanting to ban motorcycles because someone could swing a claw hammer from a rope whilst riding thus killing an innocent bystander - yes, this happend on KB, go look in the gun nut threads - actually come to think of it, you'd fit right in over there, logic is not their strong point either.

The simple fact of the matter is - it doesn't happen or is so infrequent as to say it doesn't. If you really are that upset about the dangers to kiddies about 500 kids & infants die a year in NZ from real causes. Wouldn't you be better employed saving these kids from the real threats?

Do you wear a helmet, armour in your gear? Why? you're not going to fall off, not much chance anyway.

So why wear all this gear??

[BoristheBiter]

So what your trying to say is you been there done that now no-one else should be allowed to? "do what I say Not as I do" right?

it was in cars not bikes but that is no excuse.
like i said the older you get the more you realize now much what you do can effect others.

Look at smoking, when i was at school everyone smoked, now i think i know one person that still smokes, same as drink driving.
Yes i was young and stupid and luckily i survived, some friends didn't.

If you want to roll the dice of chance then get the fuck off the road or don't complain if someone is doing the same coming the other way and takes you out.

[MSTRS]

There are at least 4 that I can think of that fit the bill.
Is that all? There's a few still here, that at least used to be that way. And a few who are not here. Anymore.



It comes down to thinking of consequence. when your young there is none, as you get older you understand the effects of your actions and change, well some do.
If they survive...


It may not stop it but I reckon it would have a pretty major effect. Just think, when they want to take that roundabout knee down they might instead think ''fuck it what's the point, I'll be going down for laps tomorrow''

Really? You DO understand impulse control?

[Scuba_Steve]

it was in cars not bikes but that is no excuse.
like i said the older you get the more you realize now much what you do can effect others.

Look at smoking, when i was at school everyone smoked, now i think i know one person that still smokes, same as drink driving.
Yes i was young and stupid and luckily i survived, some friends didn't.

If you want to roll the dice of chance then get the fuck off the road or don't complain if someone is doing the same coming the other way and takes you out.

So you were worse than most yet are here preaching to others what we can & can't do. Sounds very self righteous to me.
& When I "roll the dice of chance" the ONLY person I'm taking a chance with is ME!

[BoristheBiter]

Ha Ha, Funny hats.

http://www.odt.co.nz/files/user8429/community_police_1__Medium_.jpg
Not even these idiots can slow me down!!!

In fact, Katman, Batman, superman or wonder woman couldn't either as I have no self control when I get on my bike. And if 30 grand in fines over 18 years wont slow me down, only a sudden impact will. But my job on the road is 10 times more dangerous than my speed, as I see at least 5 complete and utter idiots in cars a day on the road. It will be one of them that kills me first!
I have never seen an accident whilst out on the bike nor have I had one, but in the last 14 years in my job I have pulled two people from destroyed cars, I've been rear ended twice, seen two cars slide off the road and I'm nearly killed at least twice a week by dumb fucks who don't know the road rules. If ya want to save people, go on a cycling website. Those idiots ride on State Highways, two abreast with no consideration to any other road users. They get full cover from ACC and free cycleway networks that they don't even use half the time, And who pays for all that? Not them, they spend their money on fucken gay cycle suits that would never protect them in any type of accident!

So because i have seven resisted vehicles i shouldn't ride a push bike on the road??
What about my dirt bike no rego there but i still get full cover.

The problem is not what we are driving/riding at the time it is the attitude.

[BoristheBiter]

So you were worse than most yet are here preaching to others what we can & can't do. Sounds very self righteous to me.
& When I "roll the dice of chance" the ONLY person I'm taking a chance with is ME!




No i have just grown up. sounds like you need to too.

[Katman]

So what your trying to say is you been there done that now no-one else should be allowed to? "do what I say Not as I do" right?

The reality is that what some of us used to get away with 30 years ago cannot be gotten away with today.

For a start, the volume of traffic on the road today is nothing like it was back then.

[yachtie10]

So because i have seven resisted vehicles



Bit of a stretch mate and not just the bad spelling

do some work

[The Stranger]

Do you wear a helmet, armour in your gear? Why? you're not going to fall off, not much chance anyway.

So why wear all this gear??

Dude, quit while you think you are ahead.

Allowing for the possibility of death (say by way of insurance and estate planning) is not the same thing as not caring. It's realising that you're mortal and being responsible (you will note that responsible is pretty much the opposite of not caring) for the family that I bought into this world.

My daughter thinks I'm mad (as she asserts all motorcyclists are) and will die on a motorbike. That's her opinion and she may well be correct. But just as I respect her choices and opinions she respects mine. Her opinion does not change my attitude to riding. This also is not not caring, it's making a choice - my choice. Just as I wouldn't try and impose my choices on her I'm not about to have hers imposed on me.

And of course I wear gear - as stated previously, I'm in no hurry to die and this is consistent with that attitude.

What's your point?

[Mad-V2]

From my experience trackdays don't slow you down. I used to get free track time at Taupo Racetrack when ever I wanted. Once finished I would get off the track and 100kph would feel like walking, soon enough I would find myself sitting on around 150kph cruising.
As for cyclists, they are dangerous on main roads. It's like walking on the motorway....STUPID! and riding side by side is even stupider!!!
Dirtbike riders usually ride on the dirt and wear alot of gear to protect them if they come off, not a Lycra suit. I'm talking about ROAD users. All road users pay some form of Tax to pay for maintenance and roading upgrades where cyclists pay nothing. In Hastings the council are about to spent around a million dollars on cycle lane improvements which my tax dollars are going to pay for, and when they don't use them properly, The increased Rego costs we are hit with will pay for their injuries. ANY vehicle on the ROAD should have to pay to use the road and cyclists simply should not be on the open road.

[R-Soul]

Muppet or not, you missed my point... no amount of legislation is going to protect me from other road users, also shouldnt there be two sets of speed limits then??? one for motorcyclists (since we only endanger ourselves = our choice) and one for car/truck/bus drivers since they are danger to everyone else?

This is not a thread bout teh nany state and them protecting you - its about you manning up and taking reposnsibility for protecting yourself. Dont hate the man...

Personally I believe that it is all on a sliding scale. You should ride for a "worst case scenario" on the road. My personal worst case scenario is a dog running out in froont of the bike.

I chose this because:
- It is unpredictable, as with many accidents, and encourages vigilance
- It is potentially lethal - encouraging lower speed if and when it happens to reduce injuries/death
- It cannot be prevented merely by good bike maintenance.
- It has nothing to do with the bike's particular abilities or handling or braking.
- It has very little to do with your ability to handle a bke - more to do with what teh dumb dog is going to do next.

All you can do is ride slowly enough for the road to be able to survive the unpredictable.
Lets face it, if you are doing 150kph and a dog runs out, you are probably screwed. You would probably be screwed at 110kph, but less so, which is why you should only be doing this on the motorway, where you do not expect to encounter dog. Even on rural roads, the same type of thinking should be happening - dogs live there too.

Which is why this kind of "worst case scenario" thinking is useful. Its not setting absolute limits, but defiintely makes you keep a solid comfort envelope.

[slofox]

My personal worst case scenario is a dog running out in front of the bike.


A kid running out is worse. DAMHIK.

[DEATH_INC.]

So why wear all this gear??

Because while ambling along at 90kph some idiot on a pushbike riding 2 wide may force me to go around him, avoid some dickhead not indicating in a suv, and swerve in front of a car being tailgated by a speeding b-train. Ok?

[DEATH_INC.]

A kid running out is worse. DAMHIK.
I tend to worry about cows....harder to avoid and they are bigger than me.

[Mad-V2]

Also, If ya kids are running on the road, you need to worry more about your parenting skills and less about traffic on the roads.

[R-Soul]

What I'm saying is it's often lack of attention and poor judgement that makes mistakes. For all the one's caused by entering a corner too hot when doing your 'rossi' impersonation, many are done when you're a lot less attentative to what is coming up.
Speed may shorten the amount of reaction time avaliable, but again you are generally paying more attention.
Also I'd like to think that those who ride faster tend to have better tyres and stuff too.

Speed amplifies the lethality of poor judgement and inattentiveness. If I am not paying attention around a corner at 40kph, its much less likely that I will hita stopped car than if I were hitting it at 90kph.

And even good tyres have limits. And get worn. And lose grip in corners- especially at speed. Hell even Rossi came off a few times. Why? poor judgement? No-he was going too fast for the corner. Pushing the limits of what his bike could handle.
Reducing the envelope of safety. Speed had a direct hand in this.

[R-Soul]

A kid running out is worse. DAMHIK.

Sure they are worse, but slower. And dogs are dumber and less predictable.

sometimes...

[MSTRS]

If I am not paying attention around a corner at 40kph, its much less likely that I will hit a stopped car than if I were hitting it at 90kph.


Excuse me? If you're not paying attention, it doesn't matter what speed you are doing...the likelihood of hitting an object previously out of sight is precisely the same.

[p.dath]

So what your trying to say is you been there done that now no-one else should be allowed to? "do what I say Not as I do" right?

Nothing wrong with learning from someone else's experience, rather than repeating it the hard way.

[DEATH_INC.]

Reducing the envelope of safety. Speed had a direct hand in this.
Yes, but not as much as inattention and poor judgement

[Mad-V2]

Racers like Rossi are riding on the knife edge on a race track with safety barriers and kitty litter, thats why they fall off. Because they can do it without hitting tree's, fences or other road users. If any of us were as fast as him, we would be on the telly racing.
People should know their limits on the road, and ride within them. Some peoples limits are well above the speed limits, and some people find 100kph really fast. You can push the boundaries on the track, but never take chances on the road. Always ride WITHIN your limits. Common sense really.

[MSTRS]

People should know their limits on the road, and ride within them. Some peoples limits are well above the speed limits, and some people find 100kph really fast. You can push the boundaries on the track, but never take chances on the road. Always ride WITHIN your limits. Common sense really.

I neither condemn nor condone 'speeding'...but this part of your post is utter crap.
Who are you (or me/anyone) to say that the speed being done is not 'taking chances' - whatever one deems to be a personal limit? On the road, there are simply too many variables that just don't exist on a track.
Playing fast and loose with traffic regulations may be fun - but don't be thinking that your 'personal limits' (whatever that might mean) makes it OK. We all know the risks, and there's cemeteries full of our predecessors who thought it was OK cos "Hey - I'm a great rider". Some weren't even doing anything wrong when they copped it...remember Kanga?

[Scuba_Steve]

Nothing wrong with learning from someone else's experience, rather than repeating it the hard way.

no not saying it is but what I'm getting from his posts is "stick to the law at all times regardless of how stupid, impractical or unsafe. 56km/h in a 50 or 106km/h in a 100 is dangerous beyond anything & if you do these speeds you will kill a child" sort of thing.

[Mad-V2]

I neither condemn nor condone 'speeding'...but this part of your post is utter crap.
Who are you (or me/anyone) to say that the speed being done is not 'taking chances' - whatever one deems to be a personal limit? On the road, there are simply too many variables that just don't exist on a track.
Playing fast and loose with traffic regulations may be fun - but don't be thinking that your 'personal limits' (whatever that might mean) makes it OK. We all know the risks, and there's cemeteries full of our predecessors who thought it was OK cos "Hey - I'm a great rider". Some weren't even doing anything wrong when they copped it...remember Kanga?

Each to their own I guess. I don't speed for fun, I just speed. If I spend my whole trip looking at my speedo, I will probably crash. I ride at a comfortable speed for me and I don't take chances. "personal limit" to me means, I can go around that corner at that speed safely. I don't go round saying I'm a "great rider" I just know my limits from track experience, and I don't get close to that limit on the road. And yes, Death can come from any angle at any time no matter what speed you are going or no matter what you are doing.

[The Stranger]

This is not a thread bout teh nany state and them protecting you - its about you manning up and taking reposnsibility for protecting yourself. Dont hate the man...


Peace in the middle east anyone?

The authorities seem to be hell bent on saving us from ourselves - as do most of the do gooders in this thread.
They seem to take it as read that everyone sees it their way - or is going to f'n well comply!. They don't even stop to ask, simply assume that they're right and proceed to base their arguments, statements and assumptions on this.
Why should it be any concern of yours if I kill myself? It's not like it's going to have a negative financial impact on you. Way I see it it's positive for you. If I die it will save me from getting old and sucking up your tax dollars in medical bills and superannuation and in the interim provide employment for ambos, police etc.
Now sure killing someone else is not cool, but get the fuck off telling me that I can't kill myself.

[BoristheBiter]

no not saying it is but what I'm getting from his posts is "stick to the law at all times regardless of how stupid, impractical or unsafe. 56km/h in a 50 or 106km/h in a 100 is dangerous beyond anything & if you do these speeds you will kill a child" sort of thing.

really??
You got that from my posts?
I think you need to back and read them all again.
1) don't cry about getting a ticket if you speed, we all know what the limit is.
2) just because you think you are good doesn't mean you are.
3) shit happens to the best of us at any time.
4) if you don't care about others on the road then why should others care about .
5) take some responsibility for your actions while on the road, whether that be in a car or on a bike.
6) just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

[BoristheBiter]

Peace in the middle east anyone?

The authorities seem to be hell bent on saving us from ourselves - as do most of the do gooders in this thread.
They seem to take it as read that everyone sees it their way - or is going to f'n well comply!. They don't even stop to ask, simply assume that they're right and proceed to base their arguments, statements and assumptions on this.
Why should it be any concern of yours if I kill myself? It's not like it's going to have a negative financial impact on you. Way I see it it's positive for you. If I die it will save me from getting old and sucking up your tax dollars in medical bills and superannuation and in the interim provide employment for ambos, police etc.
Now sure killing someone else is not cool, but get the fuck off telling me that I can't kill myself.

See we agree there i don't care if you kill yourself. i don't even know you.

If you die then only your family and friends will care, unless you take someone else out as a result then someone else's family and friend will.

[BoristheBiter]

Bit of a stretch mate and not just the bad spelling

do some work

actually its 8.

[Spearfish]

Peace in the middle east anyone?

The authorities seem to be hell bent on saving us from ourselves - as do most of the do gooders in this thread.
They seem to take it as read that everyone sees it their way - or is going to f'n well comply!. They don't even stop to ask, simply assume that they're right and proceed to base their arguments, statements and assumptions on this.
Why should it be any concern of yours if I kill myself? It's not like it's going to have a negative financial impact on you. Way I see it it's positive for you. If I die it will save me from getting old and sucking up your tax dollars in medical bills and superannuation and in the interim provide employment for ambos, police etc.
Now sure killing someone else is not cool, but get the fuck off telling me that I can't kill myself.

Do you want to kill yourself?

Please do on a track day if you really have to.

[The Stranger]

See we agree there i don't care if you kill yourself. i don't even know you.

If you die then only your family and friends will care, unless you take someone else out as a result then someone else's family and friend will.

Cool, You and Katman can now retire - given we ride motorcycles the do-gooders can stop wasteing everyone's time on the 1 innocent death each year caused by motorcyclists and focus their boundless keyboard skills on the other 28,789 deaths that were registered last year in NZ.

[The Stranger]

Do you want to kill yourself?

Please do on a track day if you really have to.

And risk taking out an innocent motorcyclist WTF, you're an animal that's no place to be doing stupid shit.

[Spearfish]

And risk taking out an innocent motorcyclist WTF, you're an animal that's no place to be doing stupid shit.


Point taken.

[BoristheBiter]

Cool, You and Katman can now retire - given we ride motorcycles the do-gooders can stop wasteing everyone's time on the 1 innocent death each year caused by motorcyclists and focus their boundless keyboard skills on the other 28,789 deaths that were registered last year in NZ.

So pillions aren't classed as innocent then?

[Mad-V2]

Grasping at straws now :laugh: Some are, some arn't. If they feel unsafe they have every right to tell the pilot of the bike to slow down or stop and let them off.

[The Stranger]

So pillions aren't classed as innocent then?

2 pillions died in 2009 and that's been pretty static for a number of years. There is no record of rider at fault or not re pillion deaths.
FFS at least know what you are arguing about.