What constitutes assault in NZ?

[SuperDave]

I thought I would ask around as I'm sure that there will be a few KB members that have direct knowledge about this sort of thing. I was just wondering what is considered assault, enough to go to the police and lay an assault charge?

Does one actually have to have a black eye? Or be noticably cut or bruised up? I understand assault to be when someone makes an attack on you and you are not retaliating physically. But what I really want to know is what the law system considers to be assault.

Advice from those in the know would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[StoneChucker]

What about self defence? If someone feels a person is trying to harm them severely, even kill them, is it not fair to defend yourself with equal force?

The law seems to favour the criminal, and not the law abiding, TAX PAYING decent citizen :whocares: :whocares: :whocares:

[Jackrat]

That's a very hard question as it can come down to the personal feelings of the cop/cops you talk to.
In the case of a man on woman the line is very very fine.
In the reverse it might just be your tough luck if you happen to be the bloke.
If there are no witnesses and it's your word against theirs you might be out of luck as well.
Real sticky one,look forward to hearing form SD an Co' on this one.

[crashe]

I thought I would ask around as I'm sure that there will be a few KB members that have direct knowledge about this sort of thing. I was just wondering what is considered assault, enough to go to the police and lay an assault charge?

Does one actually have to have a black eye? Or be noticably cut or bruised up? I understand assault to be when someone makes an attack on you and you are not retaliating physically. But what I really want to know is what the law system considers to be assault.

Advice from those in the know would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

The way I understand it is: Say your neighbour and you had a wee agruement... say, over the dog, and say the neighbour grabbed you ... That can be classed as assault.

Reason: He/she put his/her hands on you. But you need to have independant witnesses. Not someone who lives with you... cos then in court it may not be valid.

So just grabbing or touching someone without their consent is assault...
Bashing one to the pulp is also assault...

So assault can be a devining line...

But go and talk to your local police officer and ask them to devine it as well.

[spudchucka]

Definition of assault from the Crimes Act 1961.


``Assault'' means the act of intentionally applying or attempting to apply force to the person of another, directly or indirectly, or threatening by any act or gesture to apply such force to the person of another, if the person making the threat has, or causes the other to believe on reasonable grounds that he has, present ability to effect his purpose

There are many grades of assault from minor to very serious. Generally, technical assaults where a person has been pushed around but not sustained any injuries are not often prosecuted but are usually dealt with by way of an official warning. However they should still be reported to police as they will be recorded for future reference should the person continue behaving in that manner. A person who does not heed police warnings may find themselves prosecuted if they continue behaving this way.

I hope this helps.

[SuperDave]

Well I am not planning on attempting to charge anyone with assault at present, but rather a recent incident that has happened prompts me to ask this question.
I just think its good to know where you stand and if the legal system will actually come to the innocents defense.

I am refering to male versus male situation, one where the offender in question has not been formally charged before, but has been witnessed as being violent in the past. And then if he does, say push it a bit too fair as in a punch to the face, would there be say reasonable arguement for filing an assault charge against him?

Also bear in mind that the victim (maybe not the best term) in this situation has not retaliated or used physical force and all physical violence has been directed in one direction. I would assume this kinda restraint speaks for something when it comes to the decision?

[SuperDave]

There are many grades of assault from minor to very serious. Generally, technical assaults where a person has been pushed around but not sustained any injuries are not often prosecuted but are usually dealt with by way of an official warning. However they should still be reported to police as they will be recorded for future reference should the person continue behaving in that manner. A person who does not heed police warnings will find themselves prosecuted if they continue behaving this way.

I hope this helps.

Thanks mate, that helps a lot. :yes:

[spudchucka]

A punch to the face is an assault. No two ways about it. My only reservation is that often we deal with people that have been "assaulted" only to find out through investigation that the incident was a fight, (two willing parties trading blows) and the pussy making the complaint lost the fight. (I'm not saying this is what happend in this case)

Prosecution still requires supporting evidence such as willing independant witnesses, physical evidence of an assault such as injuries to the victim, torn clothing, skinned knuckles on the alleged offender etc etc. If it is historic, (it happened some time ago) I wouldn't hold out too much hope for a prosecution.

[Krayy]

Does this apply to school kids as well? My nephew is getting bullied at school and the teachers arent doing a damn thing about it. If we could lay charges on the bully and/or the parents, we'd probably have more luck.

[spudchucka]

Does this apply to school kids as well? My nephew is getting bullied at school and the teachers arent doing a damn thing about it. If we could lay charges on the bully and/or the parents, we'd probably have more luck.
You won't get charges laid against a juvenile unless it is a serious assault; even then it goes to the Youth Court or is dealt with by way of a family group conference where every one sits around blowing hot air up the little bastards arsehole

By all means report it to the cops if the school isn't dealing with it though, the Youth Aid Section will get involved with the little brat and hopefully get him on the right track before it gets to that level.

[zadok]

Assault is put fairly simply is applying force to a person without their consent.
This can be by a bodily attempt or even act or gesture to threaten to apply force if they have the means to do it. ie iron bar in hand and nothing between you and the person to stop them using it.
Includes using heat, electrical energy, odour etc.

If you use self defence, you can only use up to equal force to defend yourself. If you have subdued the attacker, then carry on stoving his head in, then you have assaulted the attacker. Might not seem fair in some peoples eyes , but that is the law.

This is based on Oz, but I don't think there will be any difference.

In my job I have found that the mouth is your best form of defence (if you know how to use it).
'Verbal Judo' baby, yeah!

[Skyryder]

In my job I have found that the mouth is your best form of defence (if you know how to use it).
'Verbal Judo' baby, yeah!

And if that don't work use your legs together and in tandom.

Skyryder

[FROSTY]

mind you is Helen and her troops get their way smacking your child will be deemed assault.
Ohh it gets better -assault by definition is also To detain against their will.
so If I put my kid in the corner or pick him up to put him to bed then that would be deemed assault. Normally a non issue but in the case of a marital split where any amunition can and is used.........

[RiderInBlack]

Ohh it gets better -assault by definition is also To detain against their will. so If I put my kid in the corner or pick him up to put him to bed then that would be deemed assault.....Would that not come under "False Imprisonjment". This tort is defined as:
An unlawful and unjustified detention of a person which restrists teir freedom of movement, although it need not necessarily cause physical harm. This includes such actions as unlawful arrest, or preventing someone from leaving a room r premises (p34 of "A guide to the law for urses and Midwives" 2nd ed.)
It's one we had to watch ourselves on as Nurses if a patient was trying to leave the Hospital against the advise of the Doctors and Nurses. Only a patient under The Mental Health Act could be detained.

[marty]

Does this apply to school kids as well? My nephew is getting bullied at school and the teachers arent doing a damn thing about it. If we could lay charges on the bully and/or the parents, we'd probably have more luck.

i suggest you ask to see the school policy on bullying - will be available at the office, and they are required under NAG 5 to have this policy. if they are not complying with their own policy, point it out to them, and if it carries on, cc a letter to the school BOT and the MOE, as it is a senior management performance issue

[marty]

A punch to the face is an assault. No two ways about it. My only reservation is that often we deal with people that have been "assaulted" only to find out through investigation that the incident was a fight, (two willing parties trading blows) and the pussy making the complaint lost the fight. (I'm not saying this is what happend in this case)

.

HAHA - how many times has that happened!! steet fights are the best, mates running over to the car to say their buddy is getting assaulted, looks like a fight to me boys, you're both nicked....

[marty]

reminds me - i charged a husband and wife, who had a long history of domestic violence, with disorderly behaviour, as he was chasing her down the sreet with a spade, then she chased him with an axe, then he smashed the house windows, so she smashed the car....you get the picture (well it was in Huntly....)

they were so embarrased when the summary was read in court that they moved out of town

[Constable Plod]

Sorry to dredge up an old thread but I am new here.
Yes I am a cop and a traffic cop to boot.

The definition of assault.
The application of force to the person of another, directly or indirectly. Or threatening to apply such force by act or gesture where the person believes on reasonbale grounds that the person threatening to apply such force has the present ability to do so.

And in english.
Touching someone directly or through another person or by kissing or any other bizzare means that you can think of. Or threatening to do so but not by words alone. It must be by an act ie the clenching and raising of a fist, but only if they have the ability to do so. For example, a person who raises a fist but who is twenty feet from the victim does not have the present ability to apply that force.

Ill be back putting in my two cents worth from time to time.
Happy biking

[Brian d marge]

My wifes cooking . See statute books under assault with intent to injure

Stephen

[SARGE]

I thought I would ask around as I'm sure that there will be a few KB members that have direct knowledge about this sort of thing. I was just wondering what is considered assault, enough to go to the police and lay an assault charge?

Does one actually have to have a black eye? Or be noticably cut or bruised up? I understand assault to be when someone makes an attack on you and you are not retaliating physically. But what I really want to know is what the law system considers to be assault.

Advice from those in the know would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


by the way.. i dont know the way the laws are worded here . but back in the States, ASSAULT is defined as



"An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another"


thats right .. no contact has to be made at all.. just the threat, or actions leading a person to believe that he or she is in physical danger...

( if you tell Plonker A that you are going to rip his eyes out of his head and skull-fuck him to death, and he has reason the think that you are capable of it.. you are guilty of Assault..... if you tell Plonker A that you are going to rip his eyes out of his head and skull-fuck him to death, AND YOU ACTUALLY DO IT.. you are guilty of assault and Battery..)


there is another law called MENACING...





A person is guilty of menacing in the third degree when, by physical
menace, he or she intentionally places or attempts to place another
person in fear of death, imminent serious physical injury or physical
injury.
Menacing in the third degree is a class B misdemeanor

[Cibby]

hay all

I was recently on the Jury for a rape, burglary and assult case.

The assult part was because he had spit on someone else.

yes spit..

That is considered assult.. Any force used against someone else was the defination i think...

[Lou Girardin]

hay all

I was recently on the Jury for a rape, burglary and assult case.

The assult part was because he had spit on someone else.

yes spit..

That is considered assult.. Any force used against someone else was the defination i think...

When you consider the diseases passed in saliva, I'd say that's a serious assault.

[ManDownUnder]

Does this apply to school kids as well? My nephew is getting bullied at school and the teachers arent doing a damn thing about it. If we could lay charges on the bully and/or the parents, we'd probably have more luck.

I'd suggest to the school they are being negligent in provide due care to your nephew.

[ManDownUnder]

there is another law called MENACING...

Menacing in the third degree is a class B misdemeanor

...i'll give it a go...

OI SARGE... ummm.... GRRRRRR (*mean look right in the face*)

... how'd I do?

would an angry smilie help?

[Lias]

Scary that intimidation is actually illegal. I wonder if that applies in NZ as well as the US..

Next time a bouncer / security guard "stands over" someone to make them leave, will they get arrested? LOL what a farce that law is.

I dont think threatening to do something without follow through should be a crime at all.. People say shit when they are pissed off.. Hell I know I've threatened to hit people plenty of times when I've been pissed off without ever really intending too.

[SixPackBack]

Scary that intimidation is actually illegal. I wonder if that applies in NZ as well as the US..

Next time a bouncer / security guard "stands over" someone to make them leave, will they get arrested? LOL what a farce that law is.

I dont think threatening to do something without follow through should be a crime at all.. People say shit when they are pissed off.. Hell I know I've threatened to hit people plenty of times when I've been pissed off without ever really intending too.

That's not very nice......takes just as much effort to be nice! :calm:

[Lou Girardin]

HAHA - how many times has that happened!! steet fights are the best, mates running over to the car to say their buddy is getting assaulted, looks like a fight to me boys, you're both nicked....

What if he was assaulted and was defending himself until the Police arrived?

[Wolf]

mind you is Helen and her troops get their way smacking your child will be deemed assault.
Ohh it gets better -assault by definition is also To detain against their will.
so If I put my kid in the corner or pick him up to put him to bed then that would be deemed assault. Normally a non issue but in the case of a marital split where any amunition can and is used.........
Well, there goes "Time Out"!

The whole "Reasonable Force", "Like with like" crap is farking ridiculous. What it means is that if Man-Mountain takes on Mr Punyverse 1991-2006 with fists, then fists are all the weedy little runt can use in self defence. Hardly a "fair fight", but the minute Mr Punyverse picks up a weapon to equalise his odds of survival, he's guilty of assault.

What if Mr Punyverse has a 3rd dan black belt in Aikido? That's a "weapon" even though he is using his hands - we were trained in techniques that would slam people's heads into the concrete (unless they knew enough Aikido to roll out of the situation) or screw arms out of their sockets.

I was told years ago that you are required to warn your would-be attacker that you are trained in Martial Arts as you are technically a "weapon". At what point is that supposed to happen? Few perps these days give any warning that they intend to attack from what I've heard - the boxer that got jumped from behind and beaten to a pulp never got a warning, the guy who got stabbed in the throat when he accosted the wanker tampering with his bike never got a warning...

And if, perchance some bugger is threatening you with violence and you do get a chance to say "I must warn you I am trained in martial arts," the bastard is likely to take that as a challenge and attack you anyway - just to "prove" to his mates that martial arts is shit against "real fighting".

To cap it off, his lawyer will then try to say you "provoked him" - after all, the perp is not responsible for his own feeling and actions - you "made him angry" by spouting about martial arts.

If you're lucky enough to have time to react at all, rather than being totally blind-sided (scariest words I've read lately were "it was without warning. I thought he had just punched me until I felt the blood flowing" - a real life account of being knifed: no warning, no idea the fucker was armed until the wound was inflicted), you're likely to be giving your "warning" while one of you is on the ground.

And if someone invades your house with a firearm, you may well be theoretically allowed to shoot the attacker but it begs the question of why you had a firearm in your house in such a condition that it can be readily accessed and fired when the law states that rifle, bolt and ammunition must be stored separately under lock and key. (Which is what I told the bloke who came to reassess my fitness to hold a firearms licence when he asked me what I thought of using a firearm for self-defence - "Well, it's an interesting theory, but...")

These days, you just have to hope you can talk yourself out of it (if you get the chance, if you know there's a threat at all) run from it (same provisos apply) or hope you never get targetted at all (hah, right!) because the moment you defend yourself, you're the monster.

That said. One night when a friend of mine and I were taking my girlfriend (at the time) home, we encountered a car parked in the middle of the other lane, all doors open and four people - 2 male, 2 female - in an altercation on the footpath. My friend (ex-friend now) stopped the car and asked what was going on.

Turns out there this chick had been having violence issues with her boyfriend and she had sought her aunt's help. So girl, control-freak boyfriend, aunt and aunt's boyfriend had spent the day talking and then all well out for the evening, very friendly. Control freak then punches aunt's boyfriend in the back of the head while said aunt's boyfriend was driving - hence the rather unusual parking - he wasn't prepared to risk another belt in the back of the head whilst parking up so he jammed on the brakes.

While this was being explained to us, girl storms off, boyfriend follows and aunt follows to check on girl then comes running back because control-freak is bashing up the girl. Friend and Irace over but Maori Warden stops, jumps out of car and pins the guy down and is trying to calm him down. So we explain situation to Maori Warden's wife who was with him.

Guy flips Maori Warden over (large Warden but don't underestimate the strength of a drunk skinny guy) and gets aggro, frind and I race over and apply an armlock each side, bear the guy to the ground and hold him restrained, unable to move with both arms twisted up his back and he's chewing on grass.

Cops turn up, bloke wants to split but we won't let go, he gets whiney - "You're on the fucking pigs' side" - just as the cop's approaching. Cop gives us a grin, and says "Let him up boys, if he want's fun I'm sure we can oblige him."

We did not get done for assault for pinning the guy down - mind you, the only harm he would have sustained from us is sore shoulder muscles and an after-taste of grass the next day...

Warn him? He found out we were trained when we explained it to the Maori Warden...

[Wolf]

What if he was assaulted and was defending himself until the Police arrived?
If he was defending himself, the "fight" should be well and truly over. First rule of self defence: "Never turn it into a fight".

"Fights" you can lose. The idea of self defense is to do what it takes to get out of the situation.

[zadok]

The definition of assault.
The application of force to the person of another, directly or indirectly. Or threatening to apply such force by act or gesture where the person believes on reasonbale grounds that the person threatening to apply such force has the present ability to do so.
See my post 19 June. Looks like Oz/N.Z law says pretty much the same.

[Wolf]

Touching someone directly or through another person or by kissing or any other bizzare means that you can think of. Or threatening to do so but not by words alone. It must be by an act ie the clenching and raising of a fist, but only if they have the ability to do so. For example, a person who raises a fist but who is twenty feet from the victim does not have the present ability to apply that force.
First: Welcome to KB, Constable Plod. Best of luck upgrading the pushy.

I would argue that if a person is 20 feet away waving their fist you're within 1.5 seconds of a pummelling - based on the Tueller Principle which states that a person of average fitness can cross 21 feet/7 yards/6.5 metres (pick your favourite measurement) in 1.5 seconds, so a potential assailant with a knife is deemed a "lethal threat" at that distance. At 20 feet, you have 1.5 seconds from when the attack actually starts to recognise the attack has started and respond. Joe Average generally has had just enough time to look dumbly at the charging figure and say "What th.." As a moderately trained person, I might get as far as "What the f..." :devil2: A US cop is expected to be able to draw a weapon and shoot in that time.

And that, of course, is if you're given the chance - if the bastard stands 6.5m away waving his fist or a knife rather than suddenly stepping in front of you and letting you have it at close range or stepping out from cover after you've gone past and attacking from behind.

Given that anyone within 21 feet is able to attack you within 1.5 seconds (except for 42-year-old asthmatic smokers such as myself) and you can't see the whole body of someone who has got within "kneeing distance" of you, it would be very easy for the average person to be way out of their depth. It's hard enough for those trained in self defence or fighting especially if the first thing you think is that you've been sucker-punched and then feel the blood running...

If someone grabbed my wrist I'm pretty sure I could slam them into the ground and make good my escape, I'm also pretty sure that in the 1.5 seconds available to me I could get out of the way of a 6.5m charge, but if I'm minding my own business and some punk decides he doesn't like the look of me (quite conceivable considering the way I look) and suddenly gets in my face, I'm probably going to get kneed in the nuts or knifed in the belly before I know what the fuck is going on.

[spudchucka]

When you consider the diseases passed in saliva, I'd say that's a serious assault.
Damn right it is.

[marty]

it's the reasonablness that the person has the ability to apply the force. a simple fist shake at 20 paces is not an assault - could be a threatening, but that's another can of worms. a raised fist accompanied by words like 'i'm come smash your face in' though is getting a little closer to an assault, but again, there are a lottery of offences available for that situation too.

[marty]

actually dave - it was june that you asked this Q, what has happenened since then?

[Lou Girardin]

If he was defending himself, the "fight" should be well and truly over. First rule of self defence: "Never turn it into a fight".

"Fights" you can lose. The idea of self defense is to do what it takes to get out of the situation.

Nice thought, but I've seen attempts to restrain out of control people turn into an extended struggle. The obvious solution is to put someone out. But if that goes wrong you'll be in a world of trouble.

[Wolf]

Nice thought, but I've seen attempts to restrain out of control people turn into an extended struggle. The obvious solution is to put someone out. But if that goes wrong you'll be in a world of trouble.
True. But I'm not thinking in terms of trying to restrain someone - and nor should be anyone other than a cop or an ambo - I'm thinking in terms of what it takes to get an escape route if talking didn't work/wasn't an option and there was nowhere to run - down 'em and run like fuck before they get back up, seek a hidden route out of the area and stay gone. Call the cops with a description from the safety of somewhere else. (Now I'll be told that that constitutes "leaving a crime scene" and makes me guilty in the eyes of some mealy-mouthed criminal lawyer, that I should stay around to get beaten senseless...).

Normally talking or avoidance has worked for me, including one narrow squeak when I was being followed down the road by a bunch of 4 guys who did not look like they were interested in knowing the time or where I bought my jacket - my mates turned up in the van and saw me so they stopped... Right at the point when I was working out what cover was available ahead and how I was going to best use it if I could run that far before they caught me.

Another time a guy spoiling for a fight accosted me at a pub and asked what the fuck I was staring at. I politely answered, in all honesty, that I hadn't been staring at him, that I was just daydreaming and I happened to be faced in his direction (which I suspect he knew, he was just excuse hunting) I apologised for any misunderstanding and he accepted it, obviously pissed off that I hadn't sworn at him and got aggro in return - he seemed to be hoping I would get aggro back so he could later say it was all my fault that he smacked me over. Took great delight in not giving him that opportunity. It served to show me, though, that you don't have to be looking for trouble (unless having a quiet drink in a pub is "looking for trouble") for someone to decide they want to have piece of you. Somehow I suspect that if I were heavier built and a number of centimetres taller, I wouldn't have been accosted in that instance.

[mstriumph]

.................................If you use self defence, you can only use up to equal force to defend yourself. If you have subdued the attacker, then carry on stoving his head in, then you have assaulted the attacker. Might not seem fair in some peoples eyes , but that is the law.

This is based on Oz, but I don't think there will be any difference.

.............................

you are in more of a position to know than i am, Marty - but i thought that, in a home invasion in west australia, i am permitted to use whatever force i [reasonably] consider necessary to repel an assault/defend myself and mine? the test of what is reasonable being what 'i' considered reasonable under the prevailing circumstances ...... ie didn't think the 'like with like' rule applied?

[obviously it's a given that i wouldn't be beating the attacker's head in in front of witnesses once he/she was down]

[Paul in NZ]

What constitues assault in this country?

My fecking income tax... bloody hell...

[ManDownUnder]

What constitues assault in this country?

My fecking income tax... bloody hell...

No - that's offensive behaviour.

But it's necessary or we wouldn't be able to pay for all the politicians, are we wouldn't want to see them having their perks cut now would we?

[Lou Girardin]

you are in more of a position to know than i am, Marty - but i thought that, in a home invasion in west australia, i am permitted to use whatever force i [reasonably] consider necessary to repel an assault/defend myself and mine? the test of what is reasonable being what 'i' considered reasonable under the prevailing circumstances ...... ie didn't think the 'like with like' rule applied?

[obviously it's a given that i wouldn't be beating the attacker's head in in front of witnesses once he/she was down]

I'd operate on the principle that if someone is breaking my door down, they'll get a mag full of .22's in the face (hopefully), then I'll worry about repercussions. I may be wrong, but I think my wife would rather have a live jailbird husband than be a widow.

[spudchucka]

Tis better to be tried by twelve than carried by six!

[ManDownUnder]

I'd operate on the principle that if someone is breaking my door down, they'll get a mag full of .22's in the face (hopefully), then I'll worry about repercussions. I may be wrong, but I think my wife would rather have a live jailbird husband than be a widow.

Be more fun to have a hungry Rotty chewing on their nutsack... in my personal opinion....

Besides, I could never condone and initial, lethal use of force. What if it's someone being chased, in fear for their very lives and looking for refuge?

... or any of a huge number of possibilities.

?

[ManDownUnder]

Tis better to be tried by twelve than carried by six!

No argument there though... but I'd temper that with "The best way to win a fight is by at least 50 meters"

I thought it was kinda funny coming from a TKD instructor... but it's stayed with me for all these years (1987 to be precise)

[SARGE]

...i'll give it a go...

OI SARGE... ummm.... GRRRRRR (*mean look right in the face*)

... how'd I do?

would an angry smilie help?


shit man... first of all.. ive been MARRIED 4 TIMES!!

second.. you dont think i lost my eye running with sissors do you? :doh:

try again please

[SARGE]

Besides, I could never condone and initial, lethal use of force. What if it's someone being chased, in fear for their very lives and looking for refuge?

... or any of a huge number of possibilities.

?


you are right there ..go for the knee and ask the what he wants when he's down

[scumdog]

Speaking of self defence, workmate of mine turned up at an incident last night where a nutso with a knife was threatening him.
He found a novel way of using pepper-spray (after thinking about after-care, use of O.C. spray report etc).
He THREW it at the face of the knife wielder, when 'nutso' lifted hands to protect face my mate leapt in and wrenched the knife out of their hand.
BTW He IS pretty 'up-there' when it comes to unarmed combat etc - I wouldn't tangle with him - unless I was the one with the gun! (joking, he's a top guy)