Who has been involved in an accident?

[racefactory]

1. Who has crashed due own rider error? Also including speeding and not anticipating unforeseen road hazards.

2. Who has crashed at the fault of another road user?

3. Who hasn't had an accident?

If you are one of those types that has had heaps of offs, then vote for the option that describes the majority of your accidents.

Let's be honest and see how the stats stack up.

[yachtie10]

surely one can have had an accident where they were at fault
and another accident where someone else was at fault?

all my accidents were my own fault (no doctors needed or acc) except 1 where a car pulled out of a driveway and hit me (my fault was minimal but still there)

But I have had very near misses that would have been 99%+ another persons fault

and sorry for calling you shirley

[Genestho]

Can we vote on behalf of dead people?? :)

[Tink]

Can't answer any of those, was a pillion and came off... been in cars that have crashed, not driving.

So I guess I put I have a clean insurance claims record, touch wood!:niceone:

[racefactory]

surely one can have had an accident where they were at fault
and another accident where someone else was at fault?



Yeah, not sure about the best way to incorporate that into the poll.

[paturoa]

Where is the option for crash own fault and crash other's?

[Timmeh:P]

My crash was due to the fault of the engineer who designed the decreasing radius corner.... also the loose stones that were on the road and the bloody timber fence that popped out of nowhere... not mine!!! :eek:

[onearmedbandit]

All my accidents are solely attributable to Fortuna, Greek Goddess of Luck.

[rickstv]

I've had one slow speed crash that was clearly the cars fault for going through a give way sign and not seeing me.
But Katman would agree with me that had I been riding defensively, no crash would have occured.
Rick.

[Jantar]

Lets see now:

My first crash was due to another driver's carelessness. But had I been more aware and more experienced I could have avoided it.

My most serious road crash was due to mechanical failure. Not my fault, nor anyone elses.

One other minor accident was cuased by a blowout in the rear tyre. My fault for not replacing the tyre earlier.

Two minor incidents were due entirely to my lack of experience.

As only one of the above could be blamed on someone else, I have voted for "my fault" all the way.

Oh, all these happened in 1971 - 1976. And I haven't included the many (very many) off road and racing accidents which are almost all my own fault.

[Clivoris]

I ticked my fault. I should have realised my tyres were cold and the road surface was dodgy. Bloody roundabouts.

[p.dath]

Yeah, not sure about the best way to incorporate that into the poll.

Ask people to only vote on their most serious accident then.

[BJ250]

No accidents yet :bleh: been riding 15 years come April.. :wait:

[Matt Bleck]

Mine was due to unmarked gravel..... :second:

[Katman]

So far 80% of the people who have had accidents are admitting to it being their fault.

So what the fuck are we doing about it?

[p.dath]

So far 75% of the people who have had accidents are admitting to it being their fault.

So what the fuck are we doing about it?

That's the ones that are alive, with access to a computer during the day, and prepared to participate. Lets see what it's like in the morning.

But a very interesting picture so far.

[Matt Bleck]

So far 80% of the people who have had accidents are admitting to it being their fault.

So what the fuck are we doing about it?

posting on KB about it

[Fatt Max]

Where's the "Crashed due to waving" option?

[blackdog]

Lets see now:

My most serious road crash was due to mechanical failure.


as was mine

[nodrog]

That's the ones that are alive, with access to a computer during the day, and prepared to participate. Lets see what it's like in the morning..

After all the ones that are not alive have voted??? :weird:

Fanny.

[avgas]

1) Who believes Katman
2) Who doesn't believe Katman
3) Who's a fucking liar

[Hiflyer]

1) Who believes Katman
2) Who doesn't believe Katman
3) Who's a fucking liar



1) don't think anybody would admit to this, for fear of retribution
2) or this, for fear of retribution as well
3) liars don't admit to this either.

[sondela]

All my accidents are solely attributable to Fortuna, Greek Goddess of Luck.

Uh huh, that's right, blame it on a woman!! :devil2:

[blackdog]

Uh huh, that's right, blame it on a woman!! :devil2:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HCZjG6azVo

[SPman]

After all the ones that are not alive have voted??? :weird:

Fanny.Silly - we all know the dead only vote at night.....

[george formby]

Not had an off in ooooooooooh, quite a while touch wood but during my formative years learning to ride & particularly when I got my first big bike their was not a hedge in a 50 mile radius of home that did not have a hole in it due to my bikes lack of ground clearance facilitated by the centre stand & ultimately silencers. Was tickety boo when it eventually ground through & fell off & the silencers were properly chamfered.

Which reminds me, that bike was written off by a guy whee-lying (briefly) a CBR 1000 while I queued for a bacon sandwich & mug of tea at Devils bridge.

I also lay claim to riding over a mate who had pulled over to let a caravan past on a single track road because I was perving at 2 chicks & being a cool fool.

All lessons learned & not repeated.

So, yeah, no, yeah, both but predominantly my fault.

[Hiflyer]

Not had an off in ooooooooooh, quite a while touch wood but during my formative years learning to ride & particularly when I got my first big bike their was not a hedge in a 50 mile radius of home that did not have a hole in it due to my bikes lack of ground clearance facilitated by the centre stand & ultimately silencers. Was tickety boo when it eventually ground through & fell off & the silencers were properly chamfered.

Which reminds me, that bike was written off by a guy whee-lying (briefly) a CBR 1000 while I queued for a bacon sandwich & mug of tea at Devils bridge.

I also lay claim to riding over a mate who had pulled over to let a caravan past on a single track road because I was perving at 2 chicks & being a cool fool.

All lessons learned & not repeated.

So, yeah, no, yeah, both but predominantly my fault.

Blame the women ay?

[Jantar]

So far 80% of the people who have had accidents are admitting to it being their fault.

So what the fuck are we doing about it?
We are admitting to it, seeing that it doesn't happen again, and assisting others by helping them learn from our mistakes so they may avoid making the same ones.

Unfortunately, some people just don't don't want to learn until its too bloody late.

[SMOKEU]

My last crash was partially due to mechanical failure. The reason why I binned is because I reacted badly to a stuck wide open throttle.

[DEATH_INC.]

I've had both varieties, both on the road and track. The worst injury one's were others at fault, and on the road.

[Katman]

We are admitting to it, seeing that it doesn't happen again, and assisting others by helping them learn from our mistakes so they may avoid making the same ones.



Trouble is Malcolm, sitting back and casually admitting among ourselves that over 3/4 of our accidents are our fault but bemoaning the fact that the powers that be are coming down hard on us is making us look pretty fucking stupid.

But hey, at least it should put paid to the age old "it's always the fucking cagers fault" tripe.

[PrincessBandit]

I learnt heaps from my accident - primarily that situational awareness is a split second moment by moment thing, not allowing oneself to let down your guard, and maintaining full mental capacity for the unexpected at all times.

Oh and never take too long to change your visual orientation.

[Vgygrwr]

I accept fault in my accident of 40 years ago, car pulled out through a compulsory stop and stopped in front of me, no injury I cleared the car and landed well, bike written off. I think both the driver and I were unsighted by a bus pulling into a bus stop. I learned to recognise this as a common risk situation later at a defensive riding course at Western Springs. The difficult question is how to learn prior to the accident experience. May be possible with a simulator I guess but don't think books and lectures do much.

[Crisis management]

I subscribe to the theory that all accidents are avoidable therefore there must be some fault attributed to each party involved in an accident.


(Looks south to see if there is an explosion of happiness from somewhere near taupo)




However, being serious now, I've had gazillions of accidents and offs, the first thousand I attribute to Mr Kawaski's zero handling ability of the H1 and H2, the next thousand to Lucas the Prince of darkness and Italian wiring, the next thousand to increased gravitational pools lurking near corners, the next thousand to the bloody cockies leaving sheep, turkeys, cows and quad bikes lying around on the road, the next thousand to Rogson for saying "go on, this is easy" and the remainder to the "hold my beer and watch this" moments.


Put me down for "all of the above".

[Mad-V2]

I've never had a roadbike accident or ACC claim in my life (Knock on wood:weird:)
Been road riding now for 14 years and sped excessively on every trip :whistle:

[Katman]

Been road riding now for 14 years and sped excessively on every trip :whistle:

Perhaps you should just go hard out and provide a link to the photos on your profile showing your rego plate for the benefit of the KB cops.

What a fucking retard.

[Mad-V2]

And what exactly do you think they will do?? are they on their way here to arrest me? Without evidence, all they can do is eat the peanuts out of my shit :bleh:

[Katman]

And what exactly do you think they will do?? are they on their way here to arrest me? Without evidence, all they can do is eat the peanuts out of my shit :bleh:

Any cop with an ounce of intelligence (yes, it's a long shot) would be setting themselves up around the corner and waiting. You sound like you're incapable of restraint.

[Voltaire]

Over 20 years ago.....

Hit a diesel spill on road at low speed with pillion .....went down minimal damage,
According to KB experts it must have been lack of planning.

Second time, same Z1000, old woman came out of a side street without stopping, it was wet I tried to go around but she was doing a zig zag accross to the next road.
MOT ( they were sort of failed cops) said " it was my fault as I was on a Z1000 and you must have been speeding"
I had just bought a ticket to Aussie that week...
" Must be guilty said MOT....doing a runner"
Not sure what happened...suspect my Dad paid the fine....he said he didn't.
The MOT...:weird:
I pass those places from time to time....:eek:
I hate it when cars approach a give way ready to plant it....

[pritch]

But hey, at least it should put paid to the age old "it's always the fucking cagers fault" tripe.

It is not total tripe. Last time I looked it was still valid. In most accidents involving a car and a bike, the car is at fault.

Some people extrapolate that to mean bikes are not at fault in most accidents. Wrong!

It was also true last time I looked that in most single vehicle accidents involving a motorcycle the rider was at fault. There being a distinct shortage of other candidates?

Some of the statistics come from countries where the traffic police may be higher trained than ours. In those countries the lesser trained non-traffic police very often
ascribe accidents they attend to "excessive speed" where specialist officers may have been more aware of other factors.

Sound familiar?

[Mad-V2]

Any cop with an ounce of intelligence (yes, it's a long shot) would be setting themselves up around the corner and waiting. You sound like you're incapable of restraint.

They can wait, Hell I'll even put the jug on for them. But they wouldn't sit around all week to pull me up, and if they did I would tell them how fucking stupid they are wasting taxpayers dollars to catch one person, when they could be on the road doing their job.
And you sound like such a nice person yourself. :niceone:

[Hitcher]

Ask people to only vote on their most serious accident then.

What if they have no knowledge/memory of their most serious accident?

Polls are reasonably easy to construct if you know what information you need to collect. When I was instructed in this craft many years ago, the rule was to draw up a series of blank tables before crafting questions. Here it appears that the poll's creator believes that accidents are either the fault of the rider or somebody else has contributed, forgetting that both happening is also an option.

Arguably by choosing to ride motorcycles we are all the authors of our own misfortunes. Certainly many motorcycle mishaps aren't accidents, they're inevitabilities realised. Don't take my word for it, talk with an insurance underwriter.

[Smifffy]

So far 80% of the people who have had accidents are admitting to it being their fault.

So what the fuck are we doing about it?

Me?

I'm working on having less accidents, my last was in 1988, but it was still my fault, I think I thought I had insane skills, but it wasn't a dick size thing, just a bit of fun.

Actually it was roadworks coming off the southern motorway onto the Gt South rd.

I'm also amazed at how many less accidents I've had since moving out of the "high-risk" age group.

[Katman]

It's quite clear that we could half our accident stats without even raising a sweat.

It's been said that the ACC levy could well come down if we prove a reversal of our stats.

Think Nick Smith's full of shit? Why not try calling his bluff.

[bogan]

It's quite clear that we could half our accident stats without even raising a sweat.

It's been said that the ACC levy could well come down if we proof a reversal of our stats.

Think Nick Smith's full of shit? Why not try calling his bluff.

We could more than halve our 'stats' by using the real ones. Why do they still spout the 18x more likely to be injured or killed than cagers, when the actual is down around 4x? Cos our 'risk' is just an excuse, the bigger they can make the 'risk' out to be, the more palatable the increases should be.

[Katman]

We could more than halve our 'stats' by using the real ones. Why do they still spout the 18x more likely to be injured or killed than cagers, when the actual is down around 4x? Cos our 'risk' is just an excuse, the bigger they can make the 'risk' out to be, the more palatable the increases should be.

I couldn't give a fuck about the 18x or 4x figures.

Let's set about reducing the number of accidents for which we have no-one to blame other than ourselves.

[bogan]

I couldn't give a fuck about the 18x or 4x figures.

Let's set about reducing the number of accidents for which we have no-one to blame other than ourselves.

I agree, lets do that, but lets not delude ourselves that the real figures are adequate reasons for the levy hikes, these hikes can still, and will, be fought while we also try and reduce our accidents.

[SMOKEU]

I couldn't give a fuck about the 18x or 4x figures.

Let's set about reducing the number of accidents for which we have no-one to blame other than ourselves.

It doesn't matter how expensive the tyres on a bike are, or if it has fancy ABS. The fact remains that the basic laws of physics dictate that a bike is less stable than a car. No matter how good the bike is, they are still more dangerous than a cage. Nothing will ever change that.

[blackdog]

It doesn't matter how expensive the tyres on a bike are, or if it has fancy ABS. The fact remains that the basic laws of physics dictate that a bike is less stable than a car. No matter how good the bike is, they are still more dangerous than a cage. Nothing will ever change that.

You are a fucking idiot.

Any vehicle, bike or car is only as dangerous as it's operator.

[racefactory]

The Katman is definitely a wise old cat, but is it me or has he become a little more aggressive recently? I'm seeing a lot of profanity in his postings.

I remember the good old days when I could sit with him and have a nice calm game of chess. No longer I am afraid.

[Hitcher]

Any vehicle, bike or car is only as dangerous as it's operator.

True, unless comparisons are being made between vehicles and operators. For example a motorcycle with flat blad tyres and no brakes is more dangerous than one with a new WOF. A blind person with Parkinson's disease riding a motorcycle is a more dangerous operator than is Valentino Rossi.

[blackdog]

True, unless comparisons are being made between vehicles and operators. For example a motorcycle with flat bald tyres and no brakes is more dangerous than one with a new WOF. A blind person with Parkinson's disease riding a motorcycle is a more dangerous operator than is Valentino Rossi.

Flat bald tyres? I maintain that if ridden in that condition it is still the operator at fault.

[SMOKEU]

You are a fucking idiot.

Any vehicle, bike or car is only as dangerous as it's operator.

You're the idiot if you can't understand the fact that no matter how carefully you ride, most bikers bin it sooner or later.

[Katman]

Flat bald tyres? I maintain that if ridden in that condition it is still the operator at fault.

I'd suggest the blind person with Parkinsons should find another form of transport too.

[blackdog]

You're the idiot if you can't understand the fact that no matter how carefully you ride, most bikers bin it sooner or later.

back to your tricycle buddy

come join the conversation again when you are a grown up

(unless of course you have quotable stats that prove MOST bikers bin it)

egg

[Hitcher]

Flat bald tyres? I maintain that if ridden in that condition it is still the operator at fault.

Nice attempt at evasion. I was painting an extreme example to show that comparisons between vehicles are legitimate. What's more dangerous, juggling a tennis ball or a cactus?

[SMOKEU]

back to your tricycle buddy

come join the conversation again when you are a grown up

You're the one that seems to love to initiate online conflicts like a primary school kid. You're just showing everyone how childish you really are, probably in a rather pathetic attempt to make up for something you don't have. If you want to have an arguement like a 10 year old, then take it to the pointless drivel forum.

[ducatilover]

I've had two, both my fault. One was going far too fast and being an uneducated twat with big nuts, the other was not seeing an oil/diesel slick in the wet on the 'takas, bad eye sight or not, I should have been more aware.

[blackdog]

Nice attempt at evasion. I was painting an extreme example to show that comparisons between vehicles are legitimate. What's more dangerous, juggling a tennis ball or a cactus?

Ok we may be flying off on a tangent here.

It is still up to the juggler, whether a melon or a chainsaw.

The ultimate responsibility must be with the juggler.

[blackdog]

You're the one that seems to love to initiate online conflicts like a primary school kid. You're just showing everyone how childish you really are, probably in a rather pathetic attempt to make up for something you don't have. If you want to have an arguement like a 10 year old, then take it to the pointless drivel forum.

I'm still waiting for your proof.

[Spearfish]

I this one of those jinx it moments by voting never crashed?

[gatch]

Had contact with cars on 3 occasions. The time I failed to give way was my own stupid fault. There was one time a driver turned without indicating or giving way to me, another time a car passing a truck on the outside of a blind turn and was in my lane..

Otherwise it has been gravel that has been my nemesis.

And once on cold tires at manfield, I took a slide on my head.

[onearmedbandit]

Contrary to my earlier post (which was just a pisstake), all my accidents I've been responsible for. Buck stops with me.

Oh and in my humble opinion, bikes are no more dangerous than cars. Like the shooters amongst us say, guns don't kill people, people kill people. The big difference between cars and bikes is one you're much more vulnerable on.

[wild rose]

1. Who has crashed due own rider error? Also including speeding and not anticipating unforeseen road hazards.

2. Who has crashed at the fault of another road user?

3. Who hasn't had an accident?

If you are one of those types that has had heaps of offs, then vote for the option that describes the majority of your accidents.

Let's be honest and see how the stats stack up.

1. yes, lack of experience, front braking on a muddy road (not too high speed though)
2. yes, being taken of the road by an idiot in a van driving out of a driveway and not looking left or right. And ran away. :weird:
3. dont know a biker without one :msn-wink:

[The Everlasting]

Yeah,voted number one,car in front slowed really fast,I didn't stop fast enough.

[imdying]

Trouble is Malcolm, sitting back and casually admitting among ourselves that over 3/4 of our accidents are our fault but bemoaning the fact that the powers that be are coming down hard on us is making us look pretty fucking stupid.So, what does it matter? What's the worst they can do? Ban motorcycles? Big deal, we'll just find something else fun to do :D

[onearmedbandit]

But hey, at least it should put paid to the age old "it's always the fucking cagers fault" tripe.

I'm not going to say that 'cage drivers' are not completely blame free, however responsibility is a different thing. I'd rather be responsible for myself, avoiding those car drivers (and other road users) that if I hadn't be paying attention to would have taken me out.

[James Deuce]

This was my latest one (http://waxingofflyrically.blogspot.com/2010/12/sunday-bloody-sunday.html).

[Katman]

I'm not going to say that 'cage drivers' are not completely blame free, however responsibility is a different thing. I'd rather be responsible for myself, avoiding those car drivers (and other road users) that if I hadn't be paying attention to would have taken me out.

I agree, but it's the reciting of that age old mantra that has led motorcyclists to believe that it's always someone else's fault.

Thankfully the poll appears to be showing a realisation to the contrary.

[MarkH]

I don't think I'll bother responding to the poll - too hard to cover my case.

I haven't had an accident in my current life, but over 20 years ago when I was a younger and less risk adverse individual I had some minor mishaps (I've never spent any time in hospital or required medical treatment of any sort).

1. Car drivers fault - illegal lane change when I was metres away and closing, binned while avoiding hitting the car.

2. Act of god/road conditions - low speed off due to oil on a wet road.

3. My fault - lack of paying attention, foolishness of youth, 100% my fault.

Between these I've had minor grazing and a broken clutch lever. Since these I've had over 2 decades to mature and learn.

[Eyegasm]

It's been said that the ACC levy could well come down if we proof a reversal of our stats.

I doubt the levy will ever decrease. Maybe if we pick our socks up and stop crashing it wont increase.


It doesn't matter how expensive the tyres on a bike are, or if it has fancy ABS. The fact remains that the basic laws of physics dictate that a bike is less stable than a car. No matter how good the bike is, they are still more dangerous than a cage. Nothing will ever change that.

Heh, Smoke being all smart.


You're the one that seems to love to initiate online conflicts like a primary school kid. You're just showing everyone how childish you really are, probably in a rather pathetic attempt to make up for something you don't have. If you want to have an arguement like a 10 year old, then take it to the pointless drivel forum.

Don't argue with idoits, They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience...


I agree, but it's the reciting of that age old mantra that has led motorcyclists to believe that it's always someone else's fault.

Thankfully the poll appears to be showing a realisation to the contrary.

Katman, I agree with what you say about it is up to us because ultimately we hold our lives in our right hand.

[onearmedbandit]

Is a gun lying a table more dangerous than a TV remote? Nah, not until you put a human near it. And as far as I'm concerned, a bike is no more dangerous than a car, oh until you put that human near it. The big difference though, is on a bike you are more vulnerable. Plain and simple.

[avgas]

(unless of course you have quotable stats that prove MOST bikers bin it)
Yeah I agree with you.
Only the good ones bin it.

The others are just pussies.
230099

[Deano]

My last crash was all Jason Nairn's fault !!

[Banditbandit]

Ask people to only vote on their most serious accident then.

Shit ... I dunno ... one minute I was going into a sweeping right-hand corner at around 110 klicks - the next I was forcing my eyes open on the grass verge .. fuck knows what happened ...

[NinjaNanna]

very interesting, I'd have thougtht there would be a lot more "never crashed" votes.

[george formby]

I wonder what percentage of our "voluntary" offs involved the Police, insurance & ACC? Therefore became statistics.

All my offs were in the UK & I picked the bike up, kicked it straight & rode home feeling very sheepish to get a bollocking off my old man. No stats, no claims, nobody else involved.

As the blind man said, if you did not see it, it did not happen.

[Crisis management]

I wonder what percentage of our "voluntary" offs involved the Police, insurance & ACC? Therefore became statistics.

Very good point, for all my indiscretions only one was recorded as an accident (how a Ducati doesn't fit into the back seat of a U turning car) and that only really involved insurance companies.

[SPP]

voted 1. minor slide scrubbing in a front tyre. 70% of KB crashes are due to rider error....Oooops

[rdkls]

Make that 70% of all, that was the last number I heard.
I think the HURT report had a much lower figure but I'm skeptical of that;
the majority ARE actually single vehicle, due to rider error.

Someone asked what can we do.
We can (on roads) ride conservatively, well within our limits, to the conditions.
There will still be accidents, but it will decrease the most-common scenario, where there was nothing wrong but the rider's misjudgement;
it's not fun, safe, or conducive to improving our skills to do anything else.

[george formby]

Make that 70% of all, that was the last number I heard.
I think the HURT report had a much lower figure but I'm skeptical of that;
the majority ARE actually single vehicle, due to rider error.

Someone asked what can we do.
We can (on roads) ride conservatively, well within our limits, to the conditions.
There will still be accidents, but it will decrease the most-common scenario, where there was nothing wrong but the rider's misjudgement;
it's not fun, safe, or conducive to improving our skills to do anything else.

All of my visits into the scenery have instilled a healthy ability to look, think & slow down. I no longer think about what I can get away with but what I can do to increase my safety margin.

I would be gutted if I over cooked it these days. I would be calling myself a stupid old c$&t for years.

[Flip]

A car pulled out of a service station and crossed the road right in front of me. Knocked me off. I almost stopped in time bugger all damage to the bike, broke my thumb. He was charged with careless causing & his company threw the H+S book at him, sucks to be him I guess.

[chasio]

All my offs were in the UK & I picked the bike up, kicked it straight & rode home feeling very sheepish to get a bollocking off my old man. No stats, no claims, nobody else involved.

My one was pretty much that on wet gravel... save I didn't get a bollocking off anyone because I was the old man by then!

[Blackbird]

Katman makes the most sense and some of the others... well... it reminds me why I don't post on KB much nowadays<_< . I wonder how many people who blame others actually got themselves into the situation because of poor situational awareness? There's some new research been undertaken by Nottingham University and funded by the Institute of Advanced Motorcyclists on identifying the key differences between novice, experienced and advanced motorcyclists. Interesting findings, although hardly surprising. Summary of their findings here: http://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2011/01/speed-doesnt-kill-stupidity-kills.html

[DEVVIL]

I crashed my CB200 in 1984 my bad. I was trying to out corner another bike at the age of 16:facepalm:. I see in 2011 they put a brick wall up where I landed :shutup: (Michaels place river bend Rd Napier)
Now days:innocent:

[R-Soul]

very interesting poll this - it kind of mirrors the stats - except for the dead riders who didn't vote...

[R-Soul]

I was young, dumb, liquored up and did not even know how to countersteer, but took mate's DT125 flat out down a gravel road. At night.

I missed a corner (and luckily a lamp post by about 6 inches as well) and went through barbed wire fence.

Was I really thinking that anything else COULD have happened?