Big crash just south of Porirua on SH1 (29 January)

[carbonhed]

Harley's all over the place this afternoon. Not sure what types... just large and black. At least one badly hurt.

Best wishes for a swift recovery.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4597326/Five-hospitalised-after-crash

[Wally Simmonds]

Yeah, went into town at 1.30pm and traffic was pretty backed up..still bad at 3 when I got back.

[rustic101]

Traveled from Blue Mountains to town and was passed by a few meat axes, just hope it was not them. Saw a nice young lady at the petrol stn on what I think was a new super low or 883, again hope she was not involved.

[Devil]

There's no excuse for the following distance displayed by many riders travelling in a group. There simply should not have been this many bikes involved in this incident.

[supa.m]

There's no excuse for the following distance displayed by many riders travelling in a group. There simply should not have been this many bikes involved in this incident.

Do you know what the cause was, the Police dont, or at least are not saying?

[MD]

It must have been a mess. Never seen the M/W closed for so long at Tawa. It was for about 3 hrs. I was walking the dog down at the park and saw the chaos traffic jam and had a word with the Fulton Holgan/whatever road management truck driver who had closed the northbound on ramp at Tawa. They were diverting all northbound traffic through the Tawa -Porirua backroad but that totally ground to a halt.

Speedy recover to those hurt.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It was the Highway 61 crew. Hate to be the car involved.

[Mad-V2]

Not sure if I'm too sad about this one. The first guy would have seen it all happen and done the runners.
Here's some of the story CLICKY LINKEY (http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/67326/crash-victims-members-of-motorcycle-gang-police)

[fliplid]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/67326/crash-victims-members-of-motorcycle-gang-police

Sounds like a dodgy passing manoeuvre.

ha, bit late due o trying to get manoeuvre right ...

[Foxzee]

It was the Highway 61 crew. Hate to be the car involved.

That makes me feel better knowing it was only them!...still someone's loved one!...are we now going to assume that there will be a fallout for the cage driver!

[Elysium]

It was the Highway 61 crew. Hate to be the car involved.

I wouldn't be surpised to find the bikers caused the crash then. I've been a witness of biker gangs insane passing manoeuvres too often.

[bsasuper]

That poor tarmac

[That looks like fun]

I wouldn't be surpised to find the bikers caused the crash then. I've been a witness of biker gangs insane passing manoeuvres too often.

I have been a witness of some insane passing manoeuvres by people who arnt gang members. :scratch:
Some of the worst driving I have witnessed on a regular basis is a group of middle aged men who travel in convey to their local "Christian" meeting. Every Sunday CB call went out warning which church that particular "Gang" was heading too that day. :tugger:
So before we poke gangs with the "FUKYU" stick lets clean up our own act.
No I am not a Gang member, no I don't agree with stupid overtaking, I just don't like stereotyping :mad:

[Crasherfromwayback]

That makes me feel better knowing it was only them!...still someone's loved one!...are we now going to assume that there will be a fallout for the cage driver!

Correct. Not cool that someone is hurt regardless.


I wouldn't be surpised to find the bikers caused the crash then. I've been a witness of biker gangs insane passing manoeuvres too often.

You may well be correct. But until we know??? I deal with them, and have done for years. There are some very dodgy riders amongst most of the 'clubs', that much is true.

[Bikemad]

whats with the lead rider fuckin off after the fact..............wheres the concern for his fellow brovers................livin the dream eh????

[Jantar]

whats with the lead rider fuckin off after the fact.................
That's easy to answer. He knew the donut shop would have no customers for the next couple of hours so he was off the get the special of the day. :D

[240]

I rode past the accident heading the other way probably about five minutes after it happened, it was like a fucken bomb site.Scary shit seeing bikes scattered around and riders down.Hope they recover o.k

[pzkpfw]

alcohol-suspected-in-motorcycle-crash: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/67368/alcohol-suspected-in-motorcycle-crash

[scumdog]

alcohol-suspected-in-motorcycle-crash: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/67368/alcohol-suspected-in-motorcycle-crash

S'prise, s'prise.....:rolleyes:

[James Deuce]

Which also goes to show that Devil was right on the mark about people travelling too close together.

[phill-k]

alcohol-suspected-in-motorcycle-crash: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/67368/alcohol-suspected-in-motorcycle-crash

I am generally a supporter of the police however I've noticed in the last few months after accidents and deaths on our roads, comments attributed to the police such as we believe alcohol and or speed were factors in the death or accident.
What has happened to fair justice here, they have a team who investigate these things surely hearsay comments should be refrained from until such time as the findings are made.

[scumdog]

I am generally a supporter of the police however I've noticed in the last few months after accidents and deaths on our roads, comments attributed to the police such as we believe alcohol and or speed were factors in the death or accident.
What has happened to fair justice here, they have a team who investigate these things surely hearsay comments should be refrained from until such time as the findings are made.


So it would be better for Police to say "I could smell alcohol on the breath of them all - but we don't know if that's a factor in the crash'??

And let the media print it the way it suits them?

[phill-k]

So it would be better for Police to say "I could smell alcohol on the breath of them all - but we don't know if that's a factor in the crash'??

And let the media print it the way it suits them?

Now I don't want to get on he wrong side of u:hug: but surely no comment at all would be more appropriate until the factual evidence is gathered and any action is taken and the courts have done their job.

I do appreciate that the police are trying to get a message across to the public about the consequences of drink and speed, but it is a little like those that come on here and condemn actions of the police based on their own viewpoints rather than the facts.

To me releasing a fully detailed report when completed by the serious crash unit pointing out causation in all its detail would better suit the purpose.

however I do appreciate that in this instance I am wrong:drool:

[Scuba_Steve]

I am generally a supporter of the police however I've noticed in the last few months after accidents and deaths on our roads, comments attributed to the police such as we believe alcohol and or speed were factors in the death or accident.


I just always like it when they say "they believe speed was a factor"... What really a crash involving speed? Shit how did that happen :weird:

Now what I would like to see is a crash where speed was not a factor, that would be interesting & worthy of special mention

[rustic101]

Now what I would like to see is a crash where speed was not a factor, that would be interesting & worthy of special mention

I can get you started:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10692470

[Bikemad]

yeah...........report should read pissed plonkers with oversize egos trying sport bike type manouvres on oversize underpowered poor handling whales may have been a factor in the crash

[phill-k]

I can get you started:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10692470

Bank rage?

[Scuba_Steve]

I can get you started:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10692470

that doesn't mention speed not being a factor & it obviously was she went forward, reversed & then went forward again all of which require speed to do thus it was a factor

[scumdog]

To me releasing a fully detailed report when completed by the serious crash unit pointing out causation in all its detail would better suit the purpose.



Good point - and by the time that comes out the media would have lost all interest in the subject and less likely to exploit and blow out of proportion the event..
:yes:

[phill-k]

Good point - and by the time that comes out the media would have lost all interest in the subject and less likely to exploit and blow out of proportion the event..
:yes:

The one thing the Police would have in their favour using the media like this and presenting the full unbiased facts is our media today have lost their ability by in large to act like journalists and actually seek out the news behind a story of which drink and speed is very much one, thus by the Police releasing such a report it provides both sensationalism and makes for an easy story as limited research will have to be done.

[dipshit]

yeah...........report should read pissed plonkers with oversize egos trying sport bike type manouvres on oversize underpowered poor handling whales may have been a factor in the crash

haha... that would be so cool to see in a paper.

Too many PC sissies around these days though to tell it like it is.

[sinned]

So it would be better for Police to say "I could smell alcohol on the breath of them all - but we don't know if that's a factor in the crash'??

And let the media print it the way it suits them?

Given that the media create a headline that will most sell their paper would it make any difference? If the police stated the facts as they were presented, "I could smell alcohol on the breath of them all .." instead of an opinion the public could draw their own conclusions and there would be less reason to criticize the police for weighted opinion stated as fact.

[joan of arc]

For the media the sensationalism of having a recent accident in the news even if details are not known provides a much greater chance of the public getting excited and accessing their site/paper/TV channel so much more often. And it if involves gangs, bikes and booze with facts slowly coming to the fore so much the better. The sensationalism can continue for longer!!

For the police, having stories about 'bad' riding with links to gangs can only be a good thing for their publicity around the need to bring bike riders to heel.

[Genestho]

It's quite simple - if there was no crash, there'd be no 'story' to report. ;)

[PrincessBandit]

So it would be better for Police to say "I could smell alcohol on the breath of them all - but we don't know if that's a factor in the crash'??

And let the media print it the way it suits them?

Regardless, isn't the compulsory word-of-the-century "allegedly", even when there is proof?

[mashman]

does anyone know if the car encroached or was changing lanes? All any report has said so far is that a motorcycle clipped a car.

[Marknz]

I'd suggest that only the car driver and the motorcyclists actually know what happened. I was there within a minute or two of it happening, and couldn't tell what had happened, and wasn't keen to go asking questions either to be fair. I looked after one of the H61 fellas, and I'm 99% sure he was not pissed, nor do I think he had been drinking that morning. He was fully conscious when I got to him, and he knew he was pretty badly beaten up. I was with him for about 1.5hours till they took him in the ambo, and I would think I'd know if he had been drinking.

I can't say I'm an admirer or a supporter of gang culture, but when these dudes were lying out there on the road... they ain't gang members, they're human beings and deserve all the support and assistance that each one of us would want it the same situation.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'd suggest that only the car driver and the motorcyclists actually know what happened. I was there within a minute or two of it happening, and couldn't tell what had happened, and wasn't keen to go asking questions either to be fair. I looked after one of the H61 fellas, and I'm 99% sure he was not pissed, nor do I think he had been drinking that morning. He was fully conscious when I got to him, and he knew he was pretty badly beaten up. I was with him for about 1.5hours till they took him in the ambo, and I would think I'd know if he had been drinking.

I can't say I'm an admirer or a supporter of gang culture, but when these dudes were lying out there on the road... they ain't gang members, they're human beings and deserve all the support and assistance that each one of us would want it the same situation.

Correct. And nice work. One thing they will do, is remember you for helping.

[sinfull]

I'd suggest that only the car driver and the motorcyclists actually know what happened. I was there within a minute or two of it happening, and couldn't tell what had happened, and wasn't keen to go asking questions either to be fair. I looked after one of the H61 fellas, and I'm 99% sure he was not pissed, nor do I think he had been drinking that morning. He was fully conscious when I got to him, and he knew he was pretty badly beaten up. I was with him for about 1.5hours till they took him in the ambo, and I would think I'd know if he had been drinking.

I can't say I'm an admirer or a supporter of gang culture, but when these dudes were lying out there on the road... they ain't gang members, they're human beings and deserve all the support and assistance that each one of us would want it the same situation.

Here here !!!

Three discharged that night Mark, the two who were critical are still in intensive !

[98tls]

Gangs:violin:whos fault:violin:Typical Kiwi Whinger crap,why not simply hope those motorcyclists involved all the best.

[Gone Burger]

I'd suggest that only the car driver and the motorcyclists actually know what happened. I was there within a minute or two of it happening, and couldn't tell what had happened, and wasn't keen to go asking questions either to be fair. I looked after one of the H61 fellas, and I'm 99% sure he was not pissed, nor do I think he had been drinking that morning. He was fully conscious when I got to him, and he knew he was pretty badly beaten up. I was with him for about 1.5hours till they took him in the ambo, and I would think I'd know if he had been drinking.

I can't say I'm an admirer or a supporter of gang culture, but when these dudes were lying out there on the road... they ain't gang members, they're human beings and deserve all the support and assistance that each one of us would want it the same situation.

Best post I've read all week mate - well said. These chaps will be thankful for your help on the scence, as will their famalies and friends. Too many details are fuzzing the basic fact that they have all of the above too - just like the rest of us.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I'd suggest that only the car driver and the motorcyclists actually know what happened. I was there within a minute or two of it happening, and couldn't tell what had happened, and wasn't keen to go asking questions either to be fair. I looked after one of the H61 fellas, and I'm 99% sure he was not pissed, nor do I think he had been drinking that morning. He was fully conscious when I got to him, and he knew he was pretty badly beaten up. I was with him for about 1.5hours till they took him in the ambo, and I would think I'd know if he had been drinking.

I can't say I'm an admirer or a supporter of gang culture, but when these dudes were lying out there on the road... they ain't gang members, they're human beings and deserve all the support and assistance that each one of us would want it the same situation.

good stuff. and well put.

1.5 hours to get someone into an amberlamps seems a bit long? any idea why?

[Conquiztador]

An officer of law who clearly knows what he can and what he can not say before the accident had been investigated would very unlikely make the statement re him smelling alcohol on an injured riders breath to the media. Surely??? And if I am right in that assumption, then the rest of the article is crap too.

We know that one bike did not crash. That 5 riders ended up in hospital. That they crashed in to a car/cars. Anything else is just speculation.

I wish the riders speedy recovery.

[hayd3n]

good stuff. and well put.

1.5 hours to get someone into an amberlamps seems a bit long? any idea why?

unpaid tickets

[sinfull]

We know that one bike did not crash. That 5 riders ended up in hospital. That they crashed in to a car/cars. Anything else is just speculation.

I wish the riders speedy recovery.Still all speculation bro. only thing factual in any of the reports is 4 bikes down 5 injured !

[Gone Burger]

I was going to start a thread on this but can't find any news on it anywhere... just wonderfing if anyone knows about an accident out the back of Carterton / Masterton today? We were on a ride and came round a corner to the accident site. Road got closed off. Car seemed to have rolled and looked like it was on fire, police and firemen running at full speed. Have heard there may have been a bike involved. But no news so guess all is ok?

[Paul in NZ]

I was there within a minute or two of it happening, and couldn't tell what had happened, and wasn't keen to go asking questions either to be fair. I looked after one of the H61 fellas, and I'm 99% sure he was not pissed, nor do I think he had been drinking that morning. He was fully conscious when I got to him, and he knew he was pretty badly beaten up. I was with him for about 1.5hours till they took him in the ambo, and I would think I'd know if he had been drinking.


Good job that man - doing whats right when its required is the measure of a man and of a society - you passed on all accounts. I'd like to think we would all be capable of doing the same regardless.

[cheshirecat]

I'd suggest that only the car driver and the motorcyclists actually know what happened. I was there within a minute or two of it happening, and couldn't tell what had happened, and wasn't keen to go asking questions either to be fair. I looked after one of the H61 fellas, and I'm 99% sure he was not pissed, nor do I think he had been drinking that morning. He was fully conscious when I got to him, and he knew he was pretty badly beaten up. I was with him for about 1.5hours till they took him in the ambo, and I would think I'd know if he had been drinking.

I can't say I'm an admirer or a supporter of gang culture, but when these dudes were lying out there on the road... they ain't gang members, they're human beings and deserve all the support and assistance that each one of us would want it the same situation.

1.5 hours? Were the ambos horse drawn.
Well done though.

[Marknz]

1.5 hours is a guess based on when it reportedly happened and when I got home... I didn't keep a stopwatch on it.

There was a helluva lot of prioritisation and stabilizing involved. I can't answer why it might have taken that long, but for mine the emergency services did a bloody good job dealing with the scene, the traffic snarl-ups, and the irritant/antagonistic 'spectators' that were telling the injured to 'get off the f'n road man, these people need to get on their way'. THAT made me wild!

[blackdog]

irritant/antagonistic 'spectators' that were telling the injured to 'get off the f'n road man, these people need to get on their way'.

unfortunately a reflection of the typical nzers motoring IQ

remember goofy's 'Mr Walker and Mr Wheeler'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZAZ_xu0DCg

[That looks like fun]

but for mine the emergency services did a bloody good job dealing with the scene, the traffic snarl-ups, and the irritant/antagonistic 'spectators' that were telling the injured to 'get off the f'n road man, these people need to get on their way'. THAT made me wild!

I was beside the truck in the sun one day, listening to a guy bitching about how the hold up was very inconvenient for him. I was watching a volunteer fireman washing away the left overs of some poor woman of the road and I turned to the moaner and informed him thus, "the guy on the end of that hose is a business owner in my home town, put yourself in his shoes, would you think he would rather be running his shop or out here hosing body bits away? The sun is shining and you are standing in it, your day is not so bad". Some people at accidents need to stop and just breathe occasionally:love:

[scumdog]

unfortunately a reflection of the typical nzers motoring IQ

remember goofy's 'Mr Walker and Mr Wheeler'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZAZ_xu0DCg

And still people on this sitel say the individual should be able ride at what speed THEY think is safe etc...

[James Deuce]

And still people on this sitel say the individual should be able ride at what speed THEY think is safe etc...

Fuck that, I just want to be able to go for a ride.

[blackdog]

And still people on this sitel say the individual should be able ride at what speed THEY think is safe etc...

Moderation in all things Mr Scummy.

For things to change, first we must change.

[hellokitty]

I was beside the truck in the sun one day, listening to a guy bitching about how the hold up was very inconvenient for him. I was watching a volunteer fireman washing away the left overs of some poor woman of the road and I turned to the moaner and informed him thus, "the guy on the end of that hose is a business owner in my home town, put yourself in his shoes, would you think he would rather be running his shop or out here hosing body bits away? The sun is shining and you are standing in it, your day is not so bad". Some people at accidents need to stop and just breathe occasionally:love:[/QUOTE]

Amazing aye? People need think before they speak. When I am stuck in traffic caused by someone else's misfortune, I am just grateful it isn't me. The worst thing is when you finally go past and you recognise the car/bike/person. :shit: Had a couple of people go past my accident that knew my car and freaked!


Fuck that, I just want to be able to go for a ride.
Yes to go for a ride, and to return home safe.

[hellokitty]

Anyway :love: love and good job to the guy who looked after the injured biker.
I know I would stop to help an injured biker, and I would hope someone would do the same for me.

[James Deuce]

Yes to go for a ride, and to return home safe.

Can't do either. There is no ride at present and there most certainly is no safe. Anywhere. Ever. You need to disabuse yourself of that notion or you'll end up able believe big lies, like Christianity or Corporate Finance.

[Ronin]

I was going to start a thread on this but can't find any news on it anywhere... just wonderfing if anyone knows about an accident out the back of Carterton / Masterton today? We were on a ride and came round a corner to the accident site. Road got closed off. Car seemed to have rolled and looked like it was on fire, police and firemen running at full speed. Have heard there may have been a bike involved. But no news so guess all is ok?


this one.
http://www.times-age.co.nz/local/news/pair-escape-road-smash-fireball/3938745/

<a href="http://s755.photobucket.com/albums/xx197/ronin_nz/?action=view&amp;current=crash.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx197/ronin_nz/crash.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Spearfish]

Can't do either. There is no ride at present and there most certainly is no safe. Anywhere. Ever. You need to disabuse yourself of that notion or you'll end up able believe big lies, like Christianity or Corporate Finance.

Disabuse?
Not that I didn't understand your post but I did stall at "Disabuse".

[Spearfish]

this one.
http://www.times-age.co.nz/local/news/pair-escape-road-smash-fireball/3938745/

http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx197/ronin_nz/crash.jpg (http://s755.photobucket.com/albums/xx197/ronin_nz/?action=view&current=crash.jpg)

So how many riders down so far this year?

[Ronin]

Disabuse?
Not that I didn't understand your post but I did stall at "Disabuse".

Verb: Persuade (someone) that an idea or belief is mistaken: "he quickly disabused me of my belief"


PS Too many.

[Eddieb]

A friend of mine was right behind this when it happened and tended to one of the injured until the ambulances arrived.

Her comments were that the person she attended stunk of alcohol. She also saw first hand the spectators abuse at beng held up on the motorway and said it wasn't pleasant.

[Gone Burger]

this one.
http://www.times-age.co.nz/local/news/pair-escape-road-smash-fireball/3938745/

<a href="http://s755.photobucket.com/albums/xx197/ronin_nz/?action=view&amp;current=crash.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx197/ronin_nz/crash.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Thanks Shaun - that's the one I was talking about. Damn good to hear both people in the accident have come away relativly O.K - now once again, we all wait to hear the name of the local rider.

[cheshirecat]

, and the irritant/antagonistic 'spectators' that were telling the injured to 'get off the f'n road man, these people need to get on their way'. THAT made me wild!
And this is meant to be a civilised society - just as well you were on the scene

[rustic101]

this one.
http://www.times-age.co.nz/local/news/pair-escape-road-smash-fireball/3938745/


Yip; If I were him or the old dear, I'd be buying a lotto ticket for this coming weekend....

[HenryDorsetCase]

And still people on this sitel say the individual should be able ride at what speed THEY think is safe etc...

some of us do.....

of course for me thats about 30kph in town and 75 on the "open road"

[Ocean1]

Yip; If I were him or the old dear, I'd be buying a lotto ticket for this coming weekend....

And a steering damper?

[Ronin]

And a steering damper?

Some shocks as well.

[sinfull]

And a steering damper?

Wouldn't have been head wobbles ! Would have been a middrift wallow, Harley still can't get it right after all these years !

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thanks Shaun - that's the one I was talking about. Damn good to hear both people in the accident have come away relativly O.K - now once again, we all wait to hear the name of the local rider.

He was a customer of mine I'd just sold the bike to.

[Bald Eagle]

He was a customer of mine I'd just sold the bike to.

Bugger that's not good

[gammaguy]

It was the Highway 61 crew. Hate to be the car involved.

if they were riding anything like i have observed in the past,weaving in and out of traffic,cutting cars off,overtaking on blinds and generally being dickheads,(and this goes for all riders not just Harley ones)then i am not at all surprised and have absolutely no sympathy at all

[Shadows]

She also saw first hand the spectators abuse at beng held up on the motorway and said it wasn't pleasant.

Being just a spear's throw from Horirua, what else would you expect?

[gammaguy]

Being just a spear's throw from Horirua, what else would you expect?

mate i grew up there,Champion Street rules OK

just joking-it sucked

[buellbabe]

yeah...........report should read pissed plonkers with oversize egos trying sport bike type manouvres on oversize underpowered poor handling whales may have been a factor in the crash

Yeah...coz sportbikes NEVER have accidents eh????

Those of us who weren't there really have no right to make assumptions. Just because the bikes were HDs and the riders belonged to a gang makes them no less worthy of sympathy. And I extend that sympathy to the people in the car as well.

[sinfull]

and this goes for all riders not just Harley ones)

You have no sympathy for any injured riders no matter what they ride, if they have ever weaved in and out of traffic, overtaken on blinds and generally been dickheads !

Well hello, hard bastard you are !!! There goes two thirds of NZ motorcyclists, we're all fucked, Gamma guy's gonna let us all bleed to death !

[Usarka]

Uh oh, gamma's condemned them!

[Paul in NZ]

Pretty sure Mr gammaguy didnt mean quite that. Unfortunately once you have been cut up by a certain type of rider in a large group using their bikes as weapons of intimidation its very easy to assume that they always ride like that (and sometimes they do - lets be honest here) but in this case we dont know it.

The point is that people are hurt and require assistance so a decent person does just that. Sympathy is of course optional. Once you start shooting the wounded you are in a very sticky place morally. You dont with hold aid because you dont like the way they dress or the colour of their skin - its the rules!

I hope these guys are healing up and no lasting damage is done to anyone.

[Smifffy]

I hope these guys are healing up and no lasting damage is done to anyone.

I think they'll be patched up in no time!

:msn-wink:

[Spearfish]

Pretty sure Mr gammaguy didnt mean quite that. Unfortunately once you have been cut up by a certain type of rider in a large group using their bikes as weapons of intimidation its very easy to assume that they always ride like that (and sometimes they do - lets be honest here) but in this case we dont know it.

The point is that people are hurt and require assistance so a decent person does just that. Sympathy is of course optional. Once you start shooting the wounded you are in a very sticky place morally. You dont with hold aid because you dont like the way they dress or the colour of their skin - its the rules!

I hope these guys are healing up and no lasting damage is done to anyone.

+1
You don't have to even remotely respect them to help.
In this case it could be is right to piss the fire out?

I don't think its got anything to do with "biker" either.
I hope they were up to date with their ACC contribution.:shutup:

[sinfull]

For those who might give a fuck !
All the injured are out of intensive care !

[Bald Eagle]

All the injured are out of intensive care !

That's good news.

[Gone Burger]

For those who might give a fuck !
All the injured are out of intensive care !

Always good news indeed.

[gammaguy]

You have no sympathy for any injured riders no matter what they ride, if they have ever weaved in and out of traffic, overtaken on blinds and generally been dickheads !

Well hello, hard bastard you are !!! There goes two thirds of NZ motorcyclists, we're all fucked, Gamma guy's gonna let us all bleed to death !


hate to sound like Katman here,but at what stage do we start accepting the consequences of our actions,and stop whining like crybabies when our stupidity causes us to injure ourselves and other road users?

Other road users certainly dont feel we are worthy of sympathy,and all bikers are paying extra for the passion we love so much because of that

Get real and own up to our actions would be a good start

[Crasherfromwayback]

Get real and own up to our actions would be a good start

I've never done anything but. Doesn't mean I can't feel for someone that's seriously hurt themselves no matter what. You know what they say about casting the first stone...

[Ocean1]

You know what they say about casting the first stone...

Make sure it's a fucking big one?

[Marknz]

For those who might give a fuck !
All the injured are out of intensive care !

Good to know, thanks for that.

[gammaguy]

I've never done anything but. Doesn't mean I can't feel for someone that's seriously hurt themselves no matter what. You know what they say about casting the first stone...

guess what-i started going to races when Robert Holden(RIP mate)was racing a Suzuki X7

All my mates said it was cool when the riders crashed,I was one of the few who got no pleasure from it at all,other people sufffering pain held no attraction for me

Years later I still feel the same way,I was at Moto GP Malaysia in October just gone and still felt every crash I saw,because I know only too well how it feels(ouch)

Having said all that i still would feel little sympathy from people who crash due to their foolish riding on the road,where pushing the grip/drive envelope is actually NOT what is meant to be happening,at least not all the time.

Sympathy for fools?no

pleasure from their pain?absolutely not

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sympathy for fools?no


That's exactly my point. Who can honestly say they've never done something well foolish? I know I have.

[oneofsix]

That's exactly my point. Who can honestly say they've never done something well foolish? I know I have.

Exactly.
IMO;
sympathy for fools = yes
condemnation of their foolishness = yes
Nads to own up to my own foolishness = umm mostly, at least privately, only way to learn from it ... providing you survive.

[red mermaid]

Years ago I went to a crash where a motorcyclist was killed by a drunk driver.

The drunk was completely at fault, however the motorcyclist was drug dealer so a theme developed in discussions about the crash about how it was 2 for the price of 1...the drunk off to prison, for 5 years eventually, and a drug dealer gone.

However at a later date I visited the motorcyclists family, learnt about him, and how his family valued and loved him.

The point being;
They may be a 'scumbag', but out there they have another life and its highly likely someone loves them, so dont write them off with your prejudices.

[Maha]

Anyone who joins a gang does because of two reasons, low self asteem and the inability to focus on where their lot is in life.
A gang member is a gang member, I have no time for the losers.
If they had crashed in a car, they wouldn't even get a mention.
That bullshit about biker brotherhood is load of crap.
It really is an 'us and them' scenario.
Low life gang bikers dont give a shit about anyone but themselves.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It really is an 'us and them' scenario.
Low life gang bikers dont give a shit about anyone but themselves.

Have to disagree with you there. I know quite a few I have plenty of time for, and they in turn would help you out.

[scumdog]

The point being;
They may be a 'scumbag', but out there they have another life and its highly likely someone loves them, so dont write them off with your prejudices.

Just like the drug-addled types they peddle their drugs to eh? - the ones the drugs are sold to by the person someone loves...

[Coldrider]

If someone loves them, why are they not at home instead of in a gang.
My thoughts are formed with what I have seen, not by what I have heard or read.

[hellokitty]

Have to disagree with you there. I know quite a few I have plenty of time for, and they in turn would help you out.

And I know I will get shit for this, but sometimes gang members grow up to become good men, who make good husbands and fathers. People can change and grow.

[sinfull]

It really is an 'us and them' scenario.
Low life gang bikers dont give a shit about anyone but themselves. Seriously Mark, where and when were you hurt that badly to have you come out with that ?

[Ronin]

Seriously Mark, where and when were you hurt that badly to have you come out with that ?

Remarkably restrained old chap.

[Spearfish]

Its not hard to see why we are almost the socialist capital of the world.

So were these actually real gang members or was it a team building exercise for so wealthy lawyers that went one imitation to far?

[phill-k]

Seriously Mark, where and when were you hurt that badly to have you come out with that ?

Not sure where he is coming from but about 30 plus odd yrs ago friends of mine were on holiday in Northland came round a bend to be confronted with gang members riding on their side, head o,n biker died, they were being escorted by the police, thank god as they immediately gave the couple protection and then escorted them to comparative safety.
Long story short over the following years they were harassed continually, threatened and the stress lead to some unpleasant things in their life. His work was such that they were transfered to another part of NZ, we all lost touch with them as they needed to hide.
These guys were in the wrong, they were arseholes, not deserving of being deemed humans.
So there is some justification in peoples emotive feelings to bikers.

[Maha]

Seriously Mark, where and when were you hurt that badly to have you come out with that ?

I guess what I said Bill came across as the stereotyped view of gangs.
To answer your question though, I have never been hurt (ex wife excluded) or intimidated for that matter by anyone, ever. Least of all by any gang member.

I had a cousin that the rode with a gang in the 70's out of Napier, his parents (my aunty/uncle) were forever greatful of the ''new'' stuff that their dear son would occassionally bring home for them.

The first sentence in my original post is obviously correct?

[tri boy]

The first sentence in my original post is obviously correct?

It absolutely is not, but you have your right to an opinion.

[Maha]

It absolutely is not, but you have your right to an opinion.

I occassionally get things wrong, its not uncommon.
I occassionally voice an opinion where perhaps I should not.
But nothing will change my view on gangs.

EG: Nothing will ever change the minds of a few on here on how they view Katman.
But I know for a fact that he would go out of his way to help anyone.
See how this works?
People make judgements on others by what they read/hear or see, its human nature.

[Conquiztador]

People make judgements on others by what they read/hear or see, its human nature.

Add to that "what they experience" and you have it all covered.

[Katman]

But I know for a fact that he would go out of his way to help anyone.


What choo talkin' about Willis?

:weird:

[Maha]

What choo talkin' about Willis?

:weird:

What are you doing up?

[Dutchee]

And I know I will get shit for this, but sometimes gang members grow up to become good men, who make good husbands and fathers. People can change and grow.
I was friends with one such person. He was a good dad & husband, still had the patch in the cupboard. Seemed wierd to me, as that wasn't the person I knew. He dragged it out every now & then for whatever reason. Not sure if they dealt in drugs back then (50s/60s), but I got the impression he'd deck the kids if they did (same age as me).