Whine about something, just because you can.

[blackdog]

I play a bit of online poker.

It turns out I am a better tournament player than a cash/ring game player, but usually I can hold my own regardless.

So, the story. This morning I am sitting at a cash table, ticking along. Big blinds are 10c and I am first to act with J10 suited. I call.

(What I tell you now I know after the fact)

A late 2 pot raiser has 99, and the big blind has AK. He calls. (a fairly slow play really).

Flop comes A9K. I check, 9's check (a real slow play) so does BB slow playing two pair, again hoping to milk it.

Turn comes Q... not enough suited cards for there to be a flush out there so I've got all but the nuts! (can you see where I'm going?)

99 bets 2 pots with a set.

AK raises about 4 pots with 2 pair (he is well behind both of us at this point), and I'm laughing 'all in' with a straight!

Both of them call.

Only a one in seven chance I lose (only the 9, K's or A's left in the pack beat me), 5th street is a king.

Arse. I just lost $50US.

I've made half of it back up again since, but it still burns.

Whine over.

Anything pissed y'all off today?

[Bald Eagle]

Translation required that's all greek to me :lol:

[blackdog]

Translation required that's all greek to me :lol:

in english, my straight got beaten by a 7 to 1 outsider full house

[BuzzardNZ]

see this happen all the time. It's why I gave up playing real $ poker online, but as they say... that's poker. Part of what makes texas holdem such an intersting game, as sometimes when you think you've got the nuts, a nasty river comes along and busts ya nuts, lol.

Also, the better starting hand won, which I think is nice to see. Pre-flop, yours was the worst hand, so I wouldn't get too upset over it.

I used to play on poker stars, fulltilt and partypoker, mainly pot limit, but sometimes no limit. I played the $1/$2 tables mainly on fixed limit. Did ok too, until I realised I was spending way too much on it after a nasty losing streak.

[Grasshopperus]

in english, my straight got beaten by a 7 to 1 outsider full house

Must be why they call it gambling

[Milts]

Must be why they call it gambling

Poker is a skill game.

You were not 7 to one to lose, you were at 80% on the turn (http://www.pokercalculatoronline.com/) - one 9, two kings, two aces, three queens (a Q gives the 9's a boat) = 8 outs. Don't worry though, it all averages out in the long run, and poker is ALL about the long run.
I'm assuming you're a 2p2er? If not check out http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/ - some awesome advice there. I paid the rent playing poker for the better part of 18 months, but the stress of the beats can really get to you. Just make sure you're rolled for it.

(By the way - 80% equity in a 50$ pot means you lost 40$ equity)

[blackdog]

see this happen all the time. It's why I gave up playing real $ poker online, but as they say... that's poker. Part of what makes texas holdem such an intersting game, as sometimes when you think you've got the nuts, a nasty river comes along and busts ya nuts, lol.

I used to play on poker stars, fulltilt and partypoker, mainly pot limit, but sometimes no limit. I played the $1/$2 tables mainly on fixed limit. Did ok too, until I realised I was spending way too much on it after a nasty losing streak.

I've had ups n' downs. As you say there is always luck in the river, but mathematical facts say over time if you have the right skills you can win.

(the real pros don't get there by accident)

At lower stakes the biggest issue is the randomness with which people play, when they have no idea about the real dynamics of the game. Thats when 5th st is most dangerous.

[wysper]

Which is why I guess you say some good players trying to end the hand before the river. Reduce the chance of a bad beat.

[blackdog]

Don't panic! I just won a 45 player tourn!

Not boasting but lets say i'm up 65% today (bad beat included).

(as i said, for some reason i'm the biz in tourns, but sometimes get a bit roughed up in the cashies)

[Milts]

Which is why I guess you say some good players trying to end the hand before the river. Reduce the chance of a bad beat.

That is beyond retarded.

As long as you get your money in good, you will profit in the long run. If I gave you a die and said I'd pay you $20 every time it landed on 1, 2, 3, or 4 if you paid me 20$ every time it landed on 5 or 6, would you try to settle for taking 5$ on the spot instead of continually rolling?

Short term swings are irrelevant. What matters is EV (Expected Value).

[blackdog]

That is beyond retarded.

As long as you get your money in good, you will profit in the long run. If I gave you a die and said I'd pay you $20 every time it landed on 1, 2, 3, or 4 if you paid me 20$ every time it landed on 5 or 6, would you try to settle for taking 5$ on the spot instead of continually rolling?

Short term swings are irrelevant. What matters is EV (Expected Value).

Surely an analogy for primary kids? Make it a (little) more difficult for the motorheads.

[BuzzardNZ]

Which is why I guess you say some good players trying to end the hand before the river. Reduce the chance of a bad beat.

Or on the flip side, take it to the river and try and extract more $ from them, but of course with the added risk of a bad beat.

Anyone ever seen that crazy Aussie ( via Lithuania ) named Tony G? Absolute nutter, but skilled player and very entertaining/interesting to watch playing poker on TV. Funnier to watch than Hellmuth and Matusow put together!

Incidentally, worst beat I had when playing poker ( well one that sticks in my mind the most ) was losing my trip aces ( starting hand AA ) to a K10, and I got the A on the river, which gave my opponent a straight. That hand, getting the river Ace was the worst card that could have come down. I was betting like crazy only to lose it :( , but those were my early days of poker, older and wiser now!

[Milts]

If this is turning into a beats thread:

Took a shot at 50NL (50USD buy in), even though I usually play Single Table Tournaments.

Muppet1 raises in early position, muppet2 calls, BTN calls, I reraise from the big blind with JJ.

Flop is J 7 2 or similar.

I bet, muppet1 calls, muppet2 minraises, I shove, muppet1 folds muppet2 calls with AJ.

Turn A river A giving him the higher boat for a $120 pot.

I stuck to STTs after that. Eventually gave up and got a job though because it's not worth the stress unless you're making serious $/hr.

[BuzzardNZ]

If this is turning into a beats thread:

Took a shot at 50NL (50USD buy in), even though I usually play Single Table Tournaments.

Muppet1 raises in early position, muppet2 calls, BTN calls, I reraise from the big blind with JJ.

Flop is J 7 2 or similar.

I bet, muppet1 calls, muppet2 minraises, I shove, muppet1 folds muppet2 calls with AJ.

Turn A river A giving him the higher boat for a $120 pot.

I stuck to STTs after that. Eventually gave up and got a job though because it's not worth the stress unless you're making serious $/hr.

sure, that's a bad beat, but you can't blame muppet2 there, I'd have played his hand the same way.

[Milts]

sure, that's a bad beat, but you can't blame muppet2 there, I'd have played his hand the same way.

I'd have instafolded an often dominated hand to an OOP 3bet and a raiseflatcall preflop. If I had called I'd be playing for 2pair+ only. Can I seriously show up with anything other than JJ, QQ, KK, AA or maybe a random 77 given that action? Easy fold on muppet2's part both preflop and on the flop. In my opinion (at that table), anyway.

It's all academic regardless, as people have said that's just part of the game and I'm sure I've given as many runner runner beats as I've taken.

[wysper]

That is beyond retarded.



I would think it would depend on what kind of gambler you are. Sure you could carry on and go for more, or maybe you just want to take what you have. The bird in the hand scenario.

I would be a crap gambler for lots of reasons, one is I don't like to lose my money, two I get bored and do stupid things and three (probably the biggest one) I don't know the odds.

Things like being priced in, don't even know what the hell that means, betting out of position etc, I like watching texas holdem and would play for fun, but if I was playing for money I would be quickly broke.

Thanks for calling me retarded though.

[Drunken Monkey]

Poker is a skill game.


The odds are easily learnt, the cards you get dealt are all down to luck. The real skill is being able to read people, and you don't get that when playing online.

[Milts]

The odds are easily learnt, the cards you get dealt are all down to luck. The real skill is being able to read people, and you don't get that when playing online.

This is absolutely incorrect. Only a small part of 'reads' comes from watching someones face. Many professional players don't advertise this fact, because it leads to players focusing on hiding their face and ignoring all the other tells or leaks in their game.

If you really want to know why poker is a skill game, see the TLDR text below.

Example: You've been playing with someone for an hour, and seen them call many more bets than the average player. You are playing a pot with them and hold the nuts (or a hand you have reason to believe is better than theirs). Based on their earlier play you bet huge instead of small - they call, you make more money than a different player would in your position. Your decision just turned it into a skill game instead of a luck one.

Example two: You hold Ace of hearts (Ah) and the five of hearts (5h) on a King Seven Three board with two hearts - eg Kh 7h 3d

Your opponent bets after raising preflop. You strongly suspect they have a pair of kings at least (based on the fact that they don't often bet, therefore when they do they are more likely to have a hand). If they are the type of player mentioned in example one, you should call with your overcard and flush draw - any heart and maybe any ace will give you a better hand, but that only happens, say, 40% of the time. BUT when it does happen, you can bet large and they will call, because they are a calling station - so it's profitable for you to draw to your flush.
If instead of seeing them call a lot, you see them fold a lot, you could raise all in here - they will fold most of the time, and when they do you win outright. When they call you will win some and lose some - but on average you will be profitable, because you win 100% of the time that they fold and 40% of the time that they call. Sure sometimes they have KK, your flush misses and you lose - but more often they have KJ and fold, or 77 and you hit your flush.
If they are a tight player who rarely folds and rarely bets, then they probably a) have a strong hand and b) are not going to fold but c) may be scared into folding if another heart comes. In this case you can't make a profit by raising, can't make a profit by calling, and so folding is the best option. Many players won't realise this, will incorrectly draw to their flush, and will lose money (on average) because of it.

Reads are mostly based on viewing playing habits, not facial expressions. There is software you can buy which monitors the tables you are playing and tells you what % of the time people raise, what % of the time they bet the flop, and what % of the time they have the best hand when called at showdown etc (and thus implicitely what % of the time they are bluffing). You can see how observing player's habits makes all the difference to the game...

Tournaments are different again - the value of your chips is dictated by a) how many you have and b) how many other people have. E.g. 3 players left, you have 5000 chips, another player has 70000 and the third has 100 - you are nearly guaranteed at least second place. As a result, you should be folding a lot more to player 2, even marginally profitable hands) rather than risk losing before player 3 is eliminated.
If the stacks change to 5k, 10k, 5k then you shouldn't be folding marginally profitable hands - you need to take any edge you can get over player 3 in the hopes of coming second.

Many people don't recognise facts such as those described above. That is why a small percentage of players continually win over insane sample sizes (millions and millions of hands), while other players lose over the long run, although they may have the occasional short term win (hot run of cards). These are usually the people claiming it's rigged, or that it's not a skill game.

TLDR: poker is immensely complex and often misunderstood. Read the strategy forums on forumserver.twoplustwo.com for more.

And yes, I'm working late and the library is quiet so I really have nothing better to do.

[Gone Burger]

Anything pissed y'all off today?

Yep - Spent $800 on new advertising on my property I am selling for 3 weeks of published advertising, and $500 on the garden to make it look gorgeous again. Place is looking the best it ever has and is simply stunning. I am no longer living there but cleaning up someone elses mess each week for the open homes. Agent called to say that no one came through the open home AGAIN - after a big price drop, below GV, new advertising and looking like a fricken show home. Been on the market 9 months now, and that news just pissed me off!

[Gareth123]

It's really hot, I've had no sleep and I'm about to go and work in a really hot bakery. BTW I'm outta deoderant and I have no money for more until payday Thursday.:sick:

[marie_speeds]

On way to work (in car) this morning right indicator started clicking fast so knew I had a lamp out... so at roundabout used indicator to go right with hand signal and still got cut off FFS. The guy gave me this real blank look like "why are you sticking your arm straight out of the window?" :facepalm:

[scumdog]

in english, my straight got beaten by a 7 to 1 outsider full house

You have my kind of 'luck'.:blink:

[avgas]

I am bored at work.
Bike is parked at home.

rant over.

[Oscar]

I backed the Phoenix to bet Adelaide at $7 for $20 and score the first goal at $3.85 for $10. I almost backed Newcastle to draw with the Arse but I figured that was pushing my luck...

[Latte]

My wife doesn't understand why one bike isn't enough. And why I can't do Track riding or Dirt Riding or mountain bike riding.

Luckily she doesn't stop me.

[Hawkeye]

I backed the Phoenix to bet Adelaide at $7 for $20 and score the first goal at $3.85 for $10. I almost backed Newcastle to draw with the Arse but I figured that was pushing my luck...


Just think what odd's you could have got for a draw after 26mins

[Oscar]

Just think what odd's you could have got for a draw after 26mins

Jeez, I never thought of that....
Oh well, I did watch the last 20 minutes of the Wolves - United game:yes:

[Usarka]

You bastards I'd never played online poker until i read this thread. Been on fulltilt a bit since then :angry:

Don't know the lingo but just had a hand with JJ on the flop (QT9) the other dude all-in'd but i had hunch he was bluffing......but fucker had QQ.

But I scored a flush on the last card. Phew.

You all suck.

[Eyegasm]

The odds are easily learnt, the cards you get dealt are all down to luck. The real skill is being able to read people, and you don't get that when playing online.

Poker is a game of incomplete information, those that can pick up on tells (all of them, not just facial/body tells) will come out better off.


TLDR: poker is immensely complex and often misunderstood. Read the strategy forums on forumserver.twoplustwo.com for more.

And yes, I'm working late and the library is quiet so I really have nothing better to do.

Or what he said.

Seems Milts understands the game more than most.

Obviously read the Harrington series?

[marie_speeds]

poker

lingo hand flop the other dude all-in'd i had hunch ......but fucker had QQ.

flush . Phew.

suck.

What on earth are you talking about?:confused:.....the hand job flopped so they had to suck?

[wysper]

You all suck.

nice out!

i even enjoy watching it!

[Usarka]

Cheers, it's some rush innit!

[firefighter]

Fucken Old people GLARING at you like you're a crimminal.....especially when you've just done something nice for them......keep it up you old farts i'll start intimidating you like a big bully. Really getting sick of it!

Also, It was never, ever, ever, ever, ever a fucken rule to indicate right when going straight through a roundabout. NEVER! (Or right then left). So don't fucken do it! You make me stop and wait for nothing arsehead!
Oh and on that note, I hate those motherfuckers that see you waiting at an intersection, or roundabout, and wait until you've completely stopped to indicate they were wanting to turn left the whole time. You inconsiderate cunt faced monkey fuckers!

Yep, feels good! hahahaha! I'll probably be back for more later!

[ac3_snow]

most likely already been moaned about, but people who enter and intersection when the exit isn't clear!! then they find themselves most likely stuck in the middle of the intersection with no where to go, holding everybody else up due to their own ignorance/impatience.
ARGHHH!!!!

[Smifffy]

I hate those fuckers that fuck you up the arse and don't even have the goddamn common courtesy to give you a reach around.

[Berries]

Is that poker speak again ?

You should aquafold your flipflop on the riverbank if that happens again. You can't go past a k5 FTT when the numbers are cracking xl rainbows on the sly. Talk about flushed chips. Cracker.

[Batcerb]

valentines day .... what shit

yes i forgot, and its the dogbox for me tonight :bs:

[marie_speeds]

Fucken Old people GLARING at you like you're a crimminal.....especially when you've just done something nice for them......keep it up you old farts i'll start intimidating you like a big bully. Really getting sick of it!

Also, It was never, ever, ever, ever, ever a fucken rule to indicate right when going straight through a roundabout. NEVER! (Or right then left). So don't fucken do it! You make me stop and wait for nothing arsehead!
Oh and on that note, I hate those motherfuckers that see you waiting at an intersection, or roundabout, and wait until you've completely stopped to indicate they were wanting to turn left the whole time. You inconsiderate cunt faced monkey fuckers!

Yep, feels good! hahahaha! I'll probably be back for more later!

Don't forget the idiots who think that the indicator is a magic wand that magically gives them the right of way and magically opens up a space for them.....

[marie_speeds]

most likely already been moaned about, but people who enter and intersection when the exit isn't clear!! then they find themselves most likely stuck in the middle of the intersection with no where to go, holding everybody else up due to their own ignorance/impatience.
ARGHHH!!!!

I find flashing everyone a boob when I do this appeases everyone....:yes:

[scumdog]

Don't forget the idiots who think that the indicator is a magic wand that magically gives them the right of way and magically opens up a space for them.....

Or indicate after they have braked and started turning/changing lanes.