Do MNZ officials have to conform to rules?

[CHOPPA]

Just a thought after a couple of instances that happened on the weekend. Is there anything a rider can do if they are hindered by an official acting outside the rules?

I dont even know what the actual ruling is but it pissed me off no less, I stopped in the pits on the warm up lap to do something to my bike. The MNZ official wouldnt release me or Nick Cole onto the track because he felt our tyres were not warm enough?? After we had finished arguing the pack was around the 3rd turn!! This didnt effect my result so I never took it any further.

The other was an incident I heard about involving Luke Burkhart at Woodville getting disqualified by jumping the start. Now im not sure of the ruling etc or the circumstances around Lukes incident but it got me thinking is there any thing a competitor could do about such an incident? Lets say an official cocked up and gave say Andrew Stroud a black flag by mistake while he is leading a race, could he protest and take the win still even after the first lap???

[oyster]

The commment about warm/cold tyres sounds a bit odd but I do know Levels is a place where pitlane starts have to be carefully managed. Normally a "release" from pitlane to join a race occurs only after ALL the feild have cleared turn 2, (which is very close to 3) It's because there is no "lead in" lane exiting the pit, and someone starting from pitlane could easily get to the exit of turn 2 before the leaders, who have to negotiate 1 and 2 (unlike the pitlane starter)

And your real question. Yes they do (have to conform to the rules), but they're fallible ,human and volunteers. But sometimes when they don't, as with the penalties given out to the jump start riders at Manfeild last year, an appeal can correct it.

[Ronin]

Don't quote me on this but my understanding is that if you cam into pit lane on the warm up lap then you would start from pit lane. Up to you to have your bike sorted before the start. Many is the rider who cries like a baby if they wait on the grid while johnny come lately circulates around to form up.

Pretty sure a complaint has to be laid with the MNZ Steward within 2 hours of the finish of the meeting for it to be heard.

[suzuki21]

Don't quote me on this but my understanding is that if you cam into pit lane on the warm up lap then you would start from pit lane. Up to you to have your bike sorted before the start. Many is the rider who cries like a baby if they wait on the grid while johnny come lately circulates around to form up.

Pretty sure a complaint has to be laid with the MNZ Steward within 2 hours of the finish of the meeting for it to be heard.

I have to agree, I believe that there were 2 warm up laps but tough titties.

[CHOPPA]

I have to agree, I believe that there were 2 warm up laps but tough titties.

I didnt mind starting from pit lane but he was not even going to let us start from pit lane because we had cold tyres. Even though they had been on the warmers for 2 hours. We just took off.

As I said it didnt effect my result as I was still having problems for the first lap of the race but if it had caused me a problem and I had protested where would it have got me?

If it was deemed he held me up for 10 seconds could I have got 10 secs taken off my race time???

[Grumph]

I didnt mind starting from pit lane but he was not even going to let us start from pit lane because we had cold tyres. Even though they had been on the warmers for 2 hours. We just took off.

As I said it didnt effect my result as I was still having problems for the first lap of the race but if it had caused me a problem and I had protested where would it have got me?

If it was deemed he held me up for 10 seconds could I have got 10 secs taken off my race time???

Possibly.....the steward doesn't run the meeting, the club appointed officials do that.
The steward has juristiction over them as well as the competitors. He has quite a wide latitude as far as on the spot penalties go.
Oyster's right about the pit lane exit at Levels but the official's reason for trying to hold you is odd.....first approach should have been to the rider's rep.

[suzuki21]

Yes, riders rep definetly. Was there anything in supplementary regs or riders breifing? Bit late to moan now and just wind up people so they think officials and voluntary helpers are arseholes.
Why ask/complain on the internet rather than follow procedure which is in your rule book? Im sure you would have got an answer within 1/2hr while at the track if you went the right way about it.
Or you could have had a small off track excursion on lap one, run out to the middle of the track, layed down and acted unconcious, and forced a restart like a guy in AMA did a few years ago. (He got suspended for a year though as it was caught on video)

[CHOPPA]

Yes, riders rep definetly. Was there anything in supplementary regs or riders breifing? Bit late to moan now and just wind up people so they think officials and voluntary helpers are arseholes.
Why ask/complain on the internet rather than follow procedure which is in your rule book? Im sure you would have got an answer within 1/2hr while at the track if you went the right way about it.
Or you could have had a small off track excursion on lap one, run out to the middle of the track, layed down and acted unconcious, and forced a restart like a guy in AMA did a few years ago. (He got suspended for a year though as it was caught on video)

The reason I didnt bring it up at the track is because I saw Nick Cole bring up some safety concerns at riders briefing and he got publicly abused by stewards and officials. I wasnt going to gain anything by bringing it up so why not bring it up on here?

[CHOPPA]

.
Or you could have had a small off track excursion on lap one, run out to the middle of the track, layed down and acted unconcious, and forced a restart like a guy in AMA did a few years ago. (He got suspended for a year though as it was caught on video)

Why would you suggest such a stupid idea? You must be a voluntare?

[CHOPPA]

Possibly.....the steward doesn't run the meeting, the club appointed officials do that.
The steward has juristiction over them as well as the competitors. He has quite a wide latitude as far as on the spot penalties go.
Oyster's right about the pit lane exit at Levels but the official's reason for trying to hold you is odd.....first approach should have been to the rider's rep.

Actually it must have been an official :yes: Riders Rep! I never gave him a thought, cheers

[CHOPPA]

I cant find anything in the rulebook that explains any rules around starting from pit lane?

[k14]

The reason I didnt bring it up at the track is because I saw Nick Cole bring up some safety concerns at riders briefing and he got publicly abused by stewards and officials. I wasnt going to gain anything by bringing it up so why not bring it up on here?
You would have been fine to bring things up with the officials. The reason Nick was abused by officials was the manor in which he was acting towards them. That wall has been there since day dot and he has raced there for the 6 or 7 years with no protection there and then 20 mins before riding is supposed to start he starts complaining about it. Valid concern but the only outcome was the meeting being called off.

I saw you being held back and thought it was a bit long. At riders briefing on Saturday they said you would be held till all bikes passed the pit exit and then you would be allowed to join the race. What a totally ridiculous reason for not allowed to join the race. What if you went out on the warm up lap with completely cold tyres? Would they stop you then?

[CHOPPA]

You would have been fine to bring things up with the officials. The reason Nick was abused by officials was the manor in which he was acting towards them. That wall has been there since day dot and he has raced there for the 6 or 7 years with no protection there and then 20 mins before riding is supposed to start he starts complaining about it. Valid concern but the only outcome was the meeting being called off.

I saw you being held back and thought it was a bit long. At riders briefing on Saturday they said you would be held till all bikes passed the pit exit and then you would be allowed to join the race. What a totally ridiculous reason for not allowed to join the race. What if you went out on the warm up lap with completely cold tyres? Would they stop you then?

Yeah it certainly wasnt a good reason and my understanding was that once the riders were safely passed the pit lane exit then we could go. I think that official was just on a power trip.

Apparently if your a voluntare it doesnt matter though.....???

It would have done me no good to bring it up at the track anyway but if I did really what could have been done?

[Ronin]

I cant find anything in the rulebook that explains any rules around starting from pit lane?


Officials are required to ensure the safety of everyone and have pretty broad powers on what they can do. There isn't an official I know that wouldn't have held you in pit lane if you came in on your warm up. Believe it or not, the meeting isn't all about you.

If you get a chance, ask if you can sit in race control for a whole race and pay attention. You may understand exactly what goes on then.

[Kickaha]

It would have done me no good to bring it up at the track anyway

How do you know that? the officials are also accountable for their actions

[k14]

Officials are required to ensure the safety of everyone and have pretty broad powers on what they can do. There isn't an official I know that wouldn't have held you in pit lane if you came in on your warm up. Believe it or not, the meeting isn't all about you.

If you get a chance, ask if you can sit in race control for a whole race and pay attention. You may understand exactly what goes on then.
You didn't read what he said properly. He isn't complaining about being held up on the warm up lap and having to start from pit lane. He is complaining because the official thought it was within his powers to stop him from starting the race all together because his tyres weren't warm enough. This after the officials saying at riders briefing that riders are allowed to start from pit lane they just have to wait for the field to pass the exit.

What was wrong with your bike Choppa?

[CHOPPA]

Officials are required to ensure the safety of everyone and have pretty broad powers on what they can do. There isn't an official I know that wouldn't have held you in pit lane if you came in on your warm up. Believe it or not, the meeting isn't all about you.

If you get a chance, ask if you can sit in race control for a whole race and pay attention. You may understand exactly what goes on then.

Do you just selectively read? I said I was happy to start from pit lane but he didnt want us to even start from pit lane. He was stopping us from entering the track at all because our tyres were not warm enough? I think im a better judge of that


How do you know that? the officials are also accountable for their actions

True mate, I was a lap down anyway so even if they had given back the 10 seconds I would have still been last haha

[budda]

I didnt mind starting from pit lane but he was not even going to let us start from pit lane because we had cold tyres. Even though they had been on the warmers for 2 hours. We just took off.

be VERY careful what you wish for Sloan - the official who didnt know what he was doing is a MULTIPLE national champion, over a 35 year career, and could still teach YOU a few tricks, boy. Hand wringing whinging doesnt change the fact that YOU and NC screwed up .... the rules so carefully spelt out in the Supplimentary regs YOU signed to say you'd read and UNDERSTOOD, were applied fairly AND safely by an Official with more experience in the eye of his ..... than you've got in your whole illustrious career.

No wonder you're having tyre trouble if they'd been cooking for two hours ........

Move on - pick up your dummy from where you've spit it, dust it off, and prove your ability at Teretonga

[CHOPPA]

be VERY careful what you wish for Sloan - the official who didnt know what he was doing is a MULTIPLE national champion, over a 35 year career, and could still teach YOU a few tricks, boy. Hand wringing whinging doesnt change the fact that YOU and NC screwed up .... the rules so carefully spelt out in the Supplimentary regs YOU signed to say you'd read and UNDERSTOOD, were applied fairly AND safely by an Official with more experience in the eye of his ..... than you've got in your whole illustrious career.

No wonder you're having tyre trouble if they'd been cooking for two hours ........

Move on - pick up your dummy from where you've spit it, dust it off, and prove your ability at Teretonga

Your right, I didnt know who the official was to be honest. I wasnt supposed to be slinging shit at him it sorta went off track a bit there because like I say it was our cock up and it really didnt effect my result. The reason more for the question was the second half about Burga getting disqualified and if that were to happen to me what would be the best way to handle it? Talk to the riders rep...

[sugilite]

be VERY careful what you wish for Sloan - the official who didnt know what he was doing is a MULTIPLE national champion, over a 35 year career, and could still teach YOU a few tricks, boy. Hand wringing whinging doesnt change the fact that YOU and NC screwed up .... the rules so carefully spelt out in the Supplimentary regs YOU signed to say you'd read and UNDERSTOOD, were applied fairly AND safely by an Official with more experience in the eye of his ..... than you've got in your whole illustrious career.

No wonder you're having tyre trouble if they'd been cooking for two hours ........

Move on - pick up your dummy from where you've spit it, dust it off, and prove your ability at Teretonga

Just reading this thread with interest. One of Choppa's points in his 1st post was an official inter-mating he could not go out on cold tyres. As far as I'm aware, no mention of that is made in the rule book. Just because the official may have an illustrious career (prob most of it tyre warmers were not around) does not always make them authorities on policing the current rules. I remember turning up to the nats at Bay Park back in the day on Strouds ex Angel OWO1 with floating brembos, only to have a elderly scrutineer try to ban the bike for loose brake discs. Multi champs
Tony Rees and Jason Mac told him they were all good, he just ignored them, until finally Robert Holden told him to pull his head in as they were supposed to be like that. My point is only that long careers and practical racing experience do not always make for a crack official. Don't get me wrong, these officials are much needed and appreciated, they are just not always the leading authority on current rules and how to implement them.

As for tyres being on warmers for two hours, warmers have had thermostats for many years to keep the tyres and optimal temps. Best practice is to put your tyres through as few heat cycles as possible. (acknowledged, a point a bit moot since at nats level the tyres most often just get used for one cycle)

Agreed, riders rep was best approach on the day, but I see no problem with discussing on the net as long as no hatchet jobs are performed. :yes:

[ellipsis]

riders rep was best approach on the day, but I see no problem with discussing on the net as long as no hatchet jobs are performed. :yes:

...too true...

[k14]

Just reading this thread with interest. One of Choppa's points in his 1st post was an official inter-mating he could not go out on cold tyres. As far as I'm aware, no mention of that is made in the rule book. Just because the official may have an illustrious career (prob most of it tyre warmers were not around) does not always make them authorities on policing the current rules. I remember turning up to the nats at Bay Park back in the day on Strouds ex Angel OWO1 with floating brembos, only to have a elderly scrutineer try to ban the bike for loose brake discs. Multi champs
Tony Rees and Jason Mac told him they were all good, he just ignored them, until finally Robert Holden told him to pull his head in as they were supposed to be like that. My point is only that long careers and practical racing experience do not always make for a crack official. Don't get me wrong, these officials are much needed and appreciated, they are just not always the leading authority on current rules and how to implement them.

As for tyres being on warmers for two hours, warmers have had thermostats for many years to keep the tyres and optimal temps. Best practice is to put your tyres through as few heat cycles as possible. (acknowledged, a point a bit moot since at nats level the tyres most often just get used for one cycle)

Agreed, riders rep was best approach on the day, but I see no problem with discussing on the net as long as no hatchet jobs are performed. :yes:
Very well said. Problems seem to come to the fore when officials get a bit carried away, budda's post above sums up the way they think about themselves quite nicely.

The tyre thing is just silly. How did he know the tyres weren't up to temperature? Did he have a thermometer to check? Although seeing as there is no supplementary rule in the first place regarding tyre temperature it is a totally pointless argument in the first place.

[sidecar bob]

Can somebody post a link to the rule that superbikes must run tyrewarmers & also to the tyre temperature/performance graph for various brands.
Dammit, i cant find it.
It must be there somewhere, or the situation would never have arisen.

[k14]

Can somebody post a link to the rule that superbikes must run tyrewarmers & also to the tyre temperature/performance graph for various brands.
Dammit, i cant find it.
It must be there somewhere, or the situation would never have arisen.
Can't you see it? Right below the rule that says sidecars must run at all rounds of the championship :innocent:

[oyster]

sugilite got it pretty well summed up. The issue is whether choppa was OK to join the race, and was he entitled to. The answer should be yes and yes.
Buddha's ramble is a shocker. No specific discussion of the matter. Just a diatribe of threats, innuendo, sarcasm and insults. Add the parade of "war medals" (I must be right cos I'm an expert) makes it even worse. It's this shabby communication and closed mind thinking that poisons what should be good discussion, to make our sport better and safer in the future. Good on you Choppa for putting it up there.
Just remember though, the official is like a cricket umpire, they get it wrong, but we kinda have to live with it. Like the youngster I was supporting on Sunday being told his bike wasn't eligible because he hadn't qualified on it (he wanted to use another bike)
The official was obviously dead wrong, but he(we) had to swallow the decision.

As for Buddha, whoever is, I sure hope like hell he doesn't get into any position of authority or leadership in our sport, with a manner like that.

[CHOPPA]

I have a feeling Buddha was just saying shut up Chop and concentrate on racing ;)

[sidecar bob]

Can't you see it? Right below the rule that says sidecars must run at all rounds of the championship :innocent:

Ohh, there they are, in the section entitled, "Because Im The Boss & I Said So"

[SWERVE]

Lets hope that a "certain official" is not on flag duty at teretonga this weekend.......
Or races could be 16 laps....... or was that 15!!!!!......... or maybe 14.......
POT - KETTLE :innocent:

[gixerracer]

I have a feeling Buddha was just saying shut up Chop and concentrate on racing ;)

Yea Shut up Chop:yes:

[sidecar bob]

be VERY careful what you wish for Sloan - the official who didnt know what he was doing is a MULTIPLE national champion, over a 35 year career

Im a MULTIPLE national champion too, but I doubt it qualifies me to tell anyone how best to operate their bike. It just means that waaay back, the blokes that turned up to race in our class were not as good as us, or were less lucky.
Id suggest that the act of testing a competitors tyre temp (by patting it with a palm by the sounds of it) & excluding them from starting based on a personal subjective opinion alone, is indicitave of someone searching for an excuse to disadvantage a paticular competitor.

[nodrog]

be VERY careful what you wish for Sloan - the official who didnt know what he was doing is a MULTIPLE national champion, over a 35 year career, and could still teach YOU a few tricks, boy. Hand wringing whinging doesnt change the fact that YOU and NC screwed up .... the rules so carefully spelt out in the Supplimentary regs YOU signed to say you'd read and UNDERSTOOD, were applied fairly AND safely by an Official with more experience in the eye of his ..... than you've got in your whole illustrious career.

No wonder you're having tyre trouble if they'd been cooking for two hours ........

Move on - pick up your dummy from where you've spit it, dust it off, and prove your ability at Teretonga

Gee whiz! Who shit in your Weeties this morning?

Fanny.

[wayne]

the ring on the left..............................

[scott411]

be VERY careful what you wish for Sloan - the official who didnt know what he was doing is a MULTIPLE national champion, over a 35 year career, and could still teach YOU a few tricks, boy. Hand wringing whinging doesnt change the fact that YOU and NC screwed up .... the rules so carefully spelt out in the Supplimentary regs YOU signed to say you'd read and UNDERSTOOD, were applied fairly AND safely by an Official with more experience in the eye of his ..... than you've got in your whole illustrious career.

No wonder you're having tyre trouble if they'd been cooking for two hours ........

Move on - pick up your dummy from where you've spit it, dust it off, and prove your ability at Teretonga

although i have been guilty of this myself as well i think you may have jumped in to defend your guys a bit hard here,

here is the rule from the sup reg's,



It is the riders responsibility to keep aware of race times and schedule. Any timetable
shown is an indication only and may vary. If a competitor misses the start warm-up lap/s,
with permission of the relevant official they may be allowed to start that pending race from
the pit lane a) once the last machine on track has past the exit of pit lane or b)once the
last machine on the start grid has crossed the start line marked on the track after the start
lights have turned green or the start flag dropped as may be the case at some circuits.
Race track pit lane exit confiqurations are different at each circuit. So variations
may occur. Listern to the organisers at briefing and also if in any doubt ask

the marshal was allowed to hold him up until it was safe to enter, but not because his tyres were cold, (which Choppa told him why he was being held)

to ask Choppa's question, yes MNZ and club officals are subject to the code of conduct the same as the rider, although if they are not an MNZ member it has proved difficult in the past to sanction somebody who is not a member for breaking it,

[jellywrestler]

innuendo
I thought an Innuendo was an Italian suppository????

[budda]

I have a feeling Buddha was just saying shut up Chop and concentrate on racing ;)

well done Choppa, bullseye and man enough to say so !

Unlike the rest of the ill-informed, I've spoken to the naughty Official ( and I can only presume you are referring to the event organiser, the guy who was pushing your green partner-in-crime backwards down the chute at the time )

What he SAID was that you couldnt go out from where you were, you had to move back because your transponders were setting off the TIMING system. As you know, the procedure for starting from pitlane at Levels was included in the info you all received, so no surprises that you were held until it was SAFE to let you out.

As for the "innuendo", what I didnt spell out was that it would appear at first reading that you have admitted in print that you both disobeyed the instructions of the Official - let me make it clear for all those with comprehension deficit disorder,: that would not be a clever thing to do, now would it ?

Like I said, lets get on with the rest of the Series, starting with the best track in the country ........ and dont forget, when you get to the end of the straight, TURN LEFT !!!!!!!!

[budda]

Just reading this thread with interest. One of Choppa's points in his 1st post was an official inter-mating he could not go out on cold tyres. As far as I'm aware, no mention of that is made in the rule book. Just because the official may have an illustrious career (prob most of it tyre warmers were not around) does not always make them authorities on policing the current rules. I remember turning up to the nats at Bay Park back in the day on Strouds ex Angel OWO1 with floating brembos, only to have a elderly scrutineer try to ban the bike for loose brake discs. Multi champs
Tony Rees and Jason Mac told him they were all good, he just ignored them, until finally Robert Holden told him to pull his head in as they were supposed to be like that. My point is only that long careers and practical racing experience do not always make for a crack official. Don't get me wrong, these officials are much needed and appreciated, they are just not always the leading authority on current rules and how to implement them.

As for tyres being on warmers for two hours, warmers have had thermostats for many years to keep the tyres and optimal temps. Best practice is to put your tyres through as few heat cycles as possible. (acknowledged, a point a bit moot since at nats level the tyres most often just get used for one cycle)

Interesting that a person of your advanced vintage would know enough about warmers etc to be able to pass comment - judging by the bikes you've had in the past, you may well have run into ( probably literally ) this guy, as he was a leading racer on most of them .

As for the warmers - as a guy with a passing interest in tyres and their performance, I note that almost all the current warmers, with or without thermostat, are set too high. And leaving them on for that length of time is not in the best interest of tyre longevity .... there is more to the black art of tyre performance than heat cycles, as I'm sure you know .............

[sugilite]

Interesting that a person of your advanced vintage would know enough about warmers etc to be able to pass comment - judging by the bikes you've had in the past, you may well have run into ( probably literally ) this guy, as he was a leading racer on most of them .

As for the warmers - as a guy with a passing interest in tyres and their performance, I note that almost all the current warmers, with or without thermostat, are set too high. And leaving them on for that length of time is not in the best interest of tyre longevity .... there is more to the black art of tyre performance than heat cycles, as I'm sure you know .............

Aha, one entry form download later and I know who your talking about, funnily enough, we were always in different classes. Advanced vintage? I prefer old cunt haha.

I was merely commenting on why a rider may want to keep tyres on warmers for that length of time, rather than offer up a full thesis on race tyres. Though I have emailed the tyre warmer manufacturers to let them know a deity on the internet "knows" they have their thermostats set to high. :bleh:

[gixerracer]

well done Choppa, bullseye and man enough to say so !

Unlike the rest of the ill-informed, I've spoken to the naughty Official ( and I can only presume you are referring to the event organiser, the guy who was pushing your green partner-in-crime backwards down the chute at the time )

What he SAID was that you couldnt go out from where you were, you had to move back because your transponders were setting off the TIMING system. As you know, the procedure for starting from pitlane at Levels was included in the info you all received, so no surprises that you were held until it was SAFE to let you out.

As for the "innuendo", what I didnt spell out was that it would appear at first reading that you have admitted in print that you both disobeyed the instructions of the Official - let me make it clear for all those with comprehension deficit disorder,: that would not be a clever thing to do, now would it ?

Like I said, lets get on with the rest of the Series, starting with the best track in the country ........ and dont forget, when you get to the end of the straight, TURN LEFT !!!!!!!!

And please you dont forget which lap the white flag needs to go out:innocent:

[brads]

well done Choppa, bullseye and man enough to say so !

Unlike the rest of the ill-informed, I've spoken to the naughty Official ( and I can only presume you are referring to the event organiser, the guy who was pushing your green partner-in-crime backwards down the chute at the time )

What he SAID was that you couldnt go out from where you were, you had to move back because your transponders were setting off the TIMING system. As you know, the procedure for starting from pitlane at Levels was included in the info you all received, so no surprises that you were held until it was SAFE to let you out.

As for the "innuendo", what I didnt spell out was that it would appear at first reading that you have admitted in print that you both disobeyed the instructions of the Official - let me make it clear for all those with comprehension deficit disorder,: that would not be a clever thing to do, now would it ?

Like I said, lets get on with the rest of the Series, starting with the best track in the country ........ and dont forget, when you get to the end of the straight, TURN LEFT !!!!!!!!

Shut up Budda

[budda]

Shut up Budda

at LAST, someone with some commonsense ........................
ROGER, WILCO ( sorry, couldnt help myself - you of all people know how it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

[oyster]

Chop. A textbook way top deal with such a problem. Today I was at Ruapuna helping out the many young boys and girls in Streetstock. This is their BIG WEEKEND of the year and for many their first nationals. Most have put in a huge effort to prepare for this. The word was coming to me of an offensive arrogant person going around in some supposed official capacity lecturing these young ones saying their front tyres weren't eligible for the class. Threats of "I will take your points off you if you go out on that tyre"
So I went straight to the Steward to see if he knew of this. He knew nothing but followed up and got back to me after calling a meeting with the MNZ President and others including the RR Commission chairman. It was Peter Ramage going around etc doing this disgusting bullying. So the Steward gets the rulebook out and tells Mr Ramage he is WRONG. He finally concedes this, but says the new rules coming out will be different. The obvious question "do you expect members to read the future and apply rules not yet made up?" Well it seems so.
So a happy ending but no apology and at least I could get about and reassure the worried ones it was just another case of some self appointed official with no authority getting his rule book wrong.
Well, a happy ending for now, I suspect this example of appalling leadership won't be the last.

[Shaun]

Chop. A textbook way top deal with such a problem. Today I was at Ruapuna helping out the many young boys and girls in Streetstock. This is their BIG WEEKEND of the year and for many their first nationals. Most have put in a huge effort to prepare for this. The word was coming to me of an offensive arrogant person going around in some supposed official capacity lecturing these young ones saying their front tyres weren't eligible for the class. Threats of "I will take your points off you if you go out on that tyre"
So I went straight to the Steward to see if he knew of this. He knew nothing but followed up and got back to me after calling a meeting with the MNZ President and others including the RR Commission chairman. It was Peter Ramage going around etc doing this disgusting bullying. So the Steward gets the rulebook out and tells Mr Ramage he is WRONG. He finally concedes this, but says the new rules coming out will be different. The obvious question "do you expect members to read the future and apply rules not yet made up?" Well it seems so.
So a happy ending but no apology and at least I could get about and reassure the worried ones it was just another case of some self appointed official with no authority getting his rule book wrong.
Well, a happy ending for now, I suspect this example of appalling leadership won't be the last.


Good on you for being Man enough to name names Pete/Oyster, we need this to happen to clean up the shit that is out there, hope that does not cost me my License, it was said with the best intent for our sport

[wharfy]

Good on you for me Man enough to name names Pete, we need this to happen to clean up the shit that is out there, hope that does not cost me my License, it was said with the best intent for our sport

The fact that loosing your license IS EVEN A CONSIDERATION when making a posting (that is not DEFAMATORY or UNTRUE) speaks VOLUMES about the state of our sport....

[Shaun]

The fact that loosing your license IS EVEN A CONSIDERATION when making a posting (that is not DEFAMATORY or UNTRUE) speaks VOLUMES about the state of our sport....



mmmmm, there are WANKERS involved in the problems being typed about here Kevin, and Potentually they could claim I have bought the sport into disrepute???? Yea Write:blink: What the hell have they done apart from make it more exspensive and screw with young up and comers

My Comment was a joke between Oyster and myself really, he was FINED a few years back for basically being Honest and watching my back.

[wharfy]

Ah well you know the old saying, "just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are not after me ! "

:yes:

[Shaun]

Ah well you know the old saying, "just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are not after me ! "

:yes:



That must come from your ACID days eh

[ajturbo]

Just a thought after a couple of instances that happened on the weekend. Is there anything a rider can do if they are hindered by an official acting outside the rules?

I dont even know what the actual ruling is but it pissed me off no less, I stopped in the pits on the warm up lap to do something to my bike. The MNZ official wouldnt release me or Nick Cole onto the track because he felt our tyres were not warm enough?? After we had finished arguing the pack was around the 3rd turn!! This didnt effect my result so I never took it any further.

The other was an incident I heard about involving Luke Burkhart at Woodville getting disqualified by jumping the start. Now im not sure of the ruling etc or the circumstances around Lukes incident but it got me thinking is there any thing a competitor could do about such an incident? Lets say an official cocked up and gave say Andrew Stroud a black flag by mistake while he is leading a race, could he protest and take the win still even after the first lap???

sorry matey.. but i just have to laugh about you being stop for cold tyres... will they next stop you for having wet/dry ones if it is dry/wet..

tell that person your doing a formal complaint... that will fuck em

[CHOPPA]

sorry matey.. but i just have to laugh about you being stop for cold tyres... will they next stop you for having wet/dry ones if it is dry/wet..

tell that person your doing a formal complaint... that will fuck em

hahaha Na all good, I just blow shit out of proportion when im pissed off

[oyster]

Kinda funny if it were not so sad eh Shaun
On KiwiBiker a couple of years ago Shaun was being encouraged to get involved with MNZ and he responded by saying he couldn't because he'd be soon arrested for assaulting the CEO (Paul Pavletich)
Old dumbarse me replied by offering to pay his bail money in advance.

Next thing a letter from MNZ "you have offered monetary reward to someone to assault an employee of ours thus" blah blah and after an apology on this site and to the man, I got fined $250 which they said would go to Junior Road Racing
For about the last year I've been chasing up where the money went. Paul Stewart keeps promising but no delivery. Kev Goddard say the money is gone and now the accounts are closed for the year it is not recoverable

So there we are, believe it or not.

[discodan]

I think they would have to know the rules first Chop!

When the MNZ rep at a National series actually admits to not having a rule book, you know this sport is in trouble.

[Shaun]

I think they would have to know the rules first Chop!

When the MNZ rep at a National series actually admits to not having a rule book, you know this sport is in trouble.


Is that the Bully you are talking about that told all the KIDS/ OUR SPORTS/ MNZ RoadRacing future that he would take there points off them if they used the tyres that are allowed in the rule book, O, Maybe he actually cannot read EEEENGRISH: or count:scooter: facepalm:


PS DAN, congrats on your WIN Dude

[Wingnut]

I got fined $250 which they said would go to Junior Road Racing


Ironic considering all the time you spend with the juniors in streetstock....

[budda]

Can someone help me out here - have just typed a rebuttal to the masturbatory missive on page 3, and the system wont let me post it - possibly timed out due to the multiple re-reads and edits so I dont sink to the same depths as some on here. If theres anyone interested in FACTS rather than the nocturnal emissions of the disaffected, please tell me how to get around this stumbling block

Thanks in advance for your help ( and the snide comments Shaun - funny how you too turn to suit the surrounds - should change your name from Gremlin to Chameleon )

Cheers
Peter R

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=budda;1129987240]Can someone help me out here - have just typed a rebuttal to the masturbatory missive on page 3, and the system wont let me post it - possibly timed out due to the multiple re-reads and edits so I dont sink to the same depths as some on here. If theres anyone interested in FACTS rather than the nocturnal emissions of the disaffected, please tell me how to get around this stumbling block

Thanks in advance for your help ( and the snide comments Shaun - funny how you too turn to suit the surrounds - should change your name from Gremlin to Chameleon )

Cheers


Try word pad then post when finished Boss:violin:


Time for you retire from MNZ BUDDA, ( Who the heck voted you into your position anyway? ) You as a REP of MNZ is a loss to us the members of the society and a strain on the admin office, and an embarrasment to our sport. MNZ office itself is fine, just plonkers with hidden agendas and very poor ego problems that are holding things back, and turning our/there future away.


To be a part of a Committee ( Which you are) you should first consult the other parties and act on a group decision, not your own personall agenda's.

So are you going to get on here and deny/lie what you were saying to the youth at Ch Ch on the weekend Peter?

Please remember your roll and responsibility and credibillity with the sport and industry before you go to far Pete

Signed CHAMELEON- The man who always fights for what he/she believes is write:yes:

[budda]

[QUOTE=budda;1129987240]Can someone help me out here - have just typed a rebuttal to the masturbatory missive on page 3, and the system wont let me post it - possibly timed out due to the multiple re-reads and edits so I dont sink to the same depths as some on here. If theres anyone interested in FACTS rather than the nocturnal emissions of the disaffected, please tell me how to get around this stumbling block

Thanks in advance for your help ( and the snide comments Shaun - funny how you too turn to suit the surrounds - should change your name from Gremlin to Chameleon )

Cheers


Try word pad then post when finished Boss:violin:

Please remember your roll and responsibility and credibillity with the sport and industry before you go to far Pete

Signed CHAMELEON- The man who always fights for what he/she believes is write:yes:

Thanks for your help Shaun - as for what you say above, thats 2 more things we have in common

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=Shaun;1129987329]

Thanks for your help Shaun - as for what you say above, thats 2 more things we have in common


Peter, I will not post any more Negative about this any more as it really is getting us no where. You know my cell number if you want to discuss this with me at all.

I know your intentions in our sport are good, but neither of us are very good team players it seem's

[gixerracer]

[QUOTE=budda;1129987373]


Peter, I will not post about this any more as it really is getting us no where. You know my cell number if you want to discuss this with me at all.

I know your intentions in our sport are good, but neither of us are very good team players it seem's

You guy's would be great at the sword crossing game:facepalm:

[oyster]

Peter Ramage is a hard working, generous man. Hell, when you to Teretonga he often gives you a few extra laps!
But people screw up, me included. Peter and the commission are not exempt, but I'm sure puzzled why they don't relax a bit and get the riders and supporters at the "coal face" involved to guide them along to better (and easier) decision making. Then they get the credit, as due, for being consultative leaders, working well in a democratic organisation.
For me, the great years were 2 or 3 ago when Johnny Hepburn and Paul Stewart
were my contacts in MNZ and I thought they were great. Polite, consultative and in person, to myself and all the young ones, approachable, honest and freindly
Then, at the time of Paul Pavletich's arrival, it seemed the dark clouds rolled over.
Soon there was tension. Johnny resigned at a HUGE loss to the sport, and (I felt) Paul changed in way I could only describe as "singing the company tune" A bloody shame, and I've always hoped that open honesty would come back, but no sign yet....

[codgyoleracer]

Actually it must have been an official :yes: Riders Rep! I never gave him a thought, cheers

Riders Rep - that was me that day, & it was a busy one at that with a number of riders having various issues to deal with. Almost all handled well by officials on the day quite promptly.
My understanding of the pitlane start is "last bike over the line & then you get let go", however at levels it would be reasnoble to make that "last bike past pitlane exit".
The cold tyre comment is irrelevant IMO.

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=oyster;1129987616]Peter Ramage is a hard working, generous man. Hell, when you to Teretonga he often gives you a few extra laps!
But people screw up, me included. Peter and the commission are not exempt, but I'm sure puzzled why they don't relax a bit and get the riders and supporters at the "coal face" involved to guide them along to better (and easier) decision making. Then they get the credit, as due, for being consultative leaders, working well in a democratic organisation.
For me, the great years were 2 or 3 ago when Johnny Hepburn and Paul Stewart
were my contacts in MNZ and I thought they were great. Polite, consultative and in person, to myself and all the young ones, approachable, honest and freindly





100% AGREED Pete:yes: John and Paul Rocked in there rolls

[oyster]

I'm probably a bit tough there implying our current Board Member is not up to the standard we had with Johnny. Kev Goddard is a great guy and does a good job.
If he's not out there amongst the members as much as we'd like it's not a surprise. He has a wife, young kids, two jobs, a board members role, runs a successful race team and likes a ride himself! But I'll still say they need to encourage the people at the coal face to help them out and lighten their load.

[FROSTY]

You would have been fine to bring things up with the officials. The reason Nick was abused by officials was the manor in which he was acting towards them. That wall has been there since day dot and he has raced there for the 6 or 7 years with no protection there and then 20 mins before riding is supposed to start he starts complaining about it. Valid concern but the only outcome was the meeting being called off.
Actually mate that issue is raised I think by "somebody" at every national meeting.
Personally I'd like to see a part of licence fees go to pay for a section of air fence that is available to be used by clubs nation wide.
I'm thinking at levels theres "that" corner. at Pukie theres the top of the "hill" on the outside.At HD theres that point on the s/f straight. arguably Ruapuna as you reenter the s/f straight.

[FROSTY]

My understanding of the pitlane start is "last bike over the line & then you get let go", however at levels it would be reasnoble to make that "last bike past pitlane exit".
The cold tyre comment is irrelevant IMO.
General question -not wanting to get into this bun fight. If someone starts from pitlane then won't they show as being 1 lap down because they don't cross the beam with their transponder? -or is this just allowed for at the tally up stage?

[k14]

Actually mate that issue is raised I think by "somebody" at every national meeting.
Personally I'd like to see a part of licence fees go to pay for a section of air fence that is available to be used by clubs nation wide.
I'm thinking at levels theres "that" corner. at Pukie theres the top of the "hill" on the outside.At HD theres that point on the s/f straight. arguably Ruapuna as you reenter the s/f straight.
Tuckerman said at Levels that there is currently a project on to get a set of transportable air fence for use like you mention. ACC has put up some $$ and they are trying to raise the rest. Hopefully get something before next year!

[FROSTY]

actually guys--just to remind me--the reason for that corner even being there is for added safety isn't it? Was it actual crashes at T1/2/3 that decided them to use the chicane to slow riders into T1 or was it perceived danger with no actual crashes?

[Grumph]

Correct - going thru the esses reduces speed onto the straight and hence the approach to turn 1/2.
To the best of my knowledge bikes have always used the esses except where we've been a support class at a car meeting.
To illustrate that there's nothing new here I remember Dale Wylie getting into a tankslapper leaving the esses and slapping all the way down the straight and carrying straight on until he hit the solitary loudspeaker pole in the center of the sweeper infield....which has since been removed.

[FROSTY]

Correct - going thru the esses reduces speed onto the straight and hence the approach to turn 1/2.
To the best of my knowledge bikes have always used the esses except where we've been a support class at a car meeting.
To illustrate that there's nothing new here I remember Dale Wylie getting into a tankslapper leaving the esses and slapping all the way down the straight and carrying straight on until he hit the solitary loudspeaker pole in the center of the sweeper infield....which has since been removed.
I guess the question I'm sorta hinting at is--would it be safer to not have the chicane there? Does it cause issues for the car guys?

[Kickaha]

I guess the question I'm sorta hinting at is--would it be safer to not have the chicane there? Does it cause issues for the car guys?

It causes no issues for the car guys because they don't use it

No it would not be safer to to run without it, it means you're coming onto the front straight at a much higher speed with a big wall on the outside

[kiwi cowboy]

General question -not wanting to get into this bun fight. If someone starts from pitlane then won't they show as being 1 lap down because they don't cross the beam with their transponder? -or is this just allowed for at the tally up stage?

I think you will find they do set the beem off starting from pit lane if im reading a previous post that said the offical was pushing the bike back because it was setting the timming gear off so by starting further back they would trigger it off as they crossed it.{only presuming this of course so could be -- probably am wrong}:blink:

[nick2slow]

well done Choppa, bullseye and man enough to say so !

Unlike the rest of the ill-informed, I've spoken to the naughty Official ( and I can only presume you are referring to the event organiser, the guy who was pushing your green partner-in-crime backwards down the chute at the time )

What he SAID was that you couldnt go out from where you were, you had to move back because your transponders were setting off the TIMING system. As you know, the procedure for starting from pitlane at Levels was included in the info you all received, so no surprises that you were held until it was SAFE to let you out.

As for the "innuendo", what I didnt spell out was that it would appear at first reading that you have admitted in print that you both disobeyed the instructions of the Official - let me make it clear for all those with comprehension deficit disorder,: that would not be a clever thing to do, now would it ?

Like I said, lets get on with the rest of the Series, starting with the best track in the country ........ and dont forget, when you get to the end of the straight, TURN LEFT !!!!!!!!


leave me out of your winge, i had nothing to say on what happen, never complained about the situation, so why bring my name into this? you know how to contact me if you got something to say to me i love to chat

[FROSTY]

It causes no issues for the car guys because they don't use it

No it would not be safer to to run without it, it means you're coming onto the front straight at a much higher speed with a big wall on the outside
Howzat?---Hey mon you know the place a ferk load better than me but my memory says you fire onto pit "straight" from T9 which is a slowish corner. short straight then into a right, left, tiny straight then sweeper combo -doesn't that deal with a lot of the speed?
No critique here I just never could understand it

[jellywrestler]

Actually mate that issue is raised I think by "somebody" at every national meeting.
Personally I'd like to see a part of licence fees go to pay for a section of air fence that is available to be used by clubs nation wide.
I'm thinking at levels theres "that" corner. at Pukie theres the top of the "hill" on the outside.At HD theres that point on the s/f straight. arguably Ruapuna as you reenter the s/f straight.
have you any idea of the freight costs to move them araound, and the storage of them between usage?

airfences re great but no that simple

[jellywrestler]

[QUOTE=Shaun;1129987413]

You guy's would be great at the sword crossing game:facepalm:
Pork Swords???

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=gixerracer;1129987432]
Pork Swords???

Budda Know's I'd Win that one, his one is hidden beind to much chamaflage,

[budda]

[QUOTE=jellywrestler;1129988449]

Budda Know's I'd Win that one, his one is hidden beind to much chamaflage,

that'd be UNDERNEATH the camouflage, in the perma-shade .........

[FROSTY]

have you any idea of the freight costs to move them araound, and the storage of them between usage?

airfences re great but no that simple
for National meetings I bet the freight would be very little. "hey mr XXXX (regular national competitor) Free entry to the nats if you transport the air fence between meetings.
THAT SAID --Im working on the assumption that air fence is basicly a bouncy castle that lies flat.Compressor and bag material.

[Maido]

have you any idea of the freight costs to move them araound, and the storage of them between usage?

airfences re great but no that simple

As captain kirk14 said earlier in the thread, this is already a reality. They have done the math, and it is pretty much underway bar some funding. Hopefully next year we should see them at the track. (ps the sight of an armco barrier there didn't stop stauffer putting in a HUGE pass there in race 1)

[ttelp15]

for National meetings I bet the freight would be very little. "hey mr XXXX (regular national competitor) Free entry to the nats if you transport the air fence between meetings.
THAT SAID --Im working on the assumption that air fence is basicly a bouncy castle that lies flat.Compressor and bag material.

Depends what model(s) have been ordered. The Cemetery Circuit ones, while made by the company "Airfence" is actually foam filled bags that cannot be deflated/folded/crushed down to aid in transporting. They do take up a lot of space. If there has been some earmarked for a couple of points at the South Island tracks by MNZ, be alot easier if they left those ones somewhere down there the whole time and had someone transport them where and when they're needed. We have 2 40ft high cube containers for ours - and we still can't fit them all in!