Government group wants GST at 17.5%

[mashman]

seriously WTF do they think they're going to achieve (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/8751105/government-group-wants-gst-at-17-5/). Is life not financially hard enough for people?

Can someone tell me what the $ value of NZ's public debt is please? Not the percentage of GDP, the actual $ figure?

[Gibbo89]

The discussion at the bottom of the link is interesting :yes:

[EJK]

No way man.

[mashman]

The discussion at the bottom of the link is interesting


:rofl: i got bored with the same names throwing the usual political shit at each other without considering the issue... kinda like KB bit with limited "character" space :). I'm still stunned that people expect a decent society without having to pay for it (income tax, not goods)... unfortunately you can't have your cake and eat it and as people refuse to pay decent salaries, the debt will rise, both ends of the financial spectrum will take and nothing will eve get sorted out... We'd be better off being a policed state, at least you could guarantee consistency :)

[marie_speeds]

The problem with the last GST increase is by the time it got down the line to the end consumers the increase was not 2.5% but in some cases had reached up to 7.5% and higher as each person in the supply link added it on. If these idiot consultants honestly think that increasing it even further is going to "help" me save they all seriously have a screw loose or need one to help them think :shutup:

Burn them all I say....:angry:

[onearmedbandit]

It was said by Guy Esponer that it was very unlikely that the Government will adopt the recommendation. He also claimed that the head of the report stated that the average NZ'er does not earn enough to increase their savings, despite a need for an increase of personal saving of $5b, an average of $1000 for every NZer.

[Oscar]

Catch 22


If the Govt. has a working group and keeps it secret, the conspiracy theorists work overtime. If it is open and above board, their recommendations causes consternation amongst the twittering classes.

This is one recommendation of many, but due to it's Headline-worthy nature, it is the one that will be reported.

[Smifffy]

Catch 22


If the Govt. has a working group and keeps it secret, the conspiracy theorists work overtime. If it is open and above board, their recommendations causes consternation amongst the twittering classes.

This is one recommendation of many, but due to it's Headline-worthy nature, it is the one that will be reported.

That's why they need a working group whose members are not fucked in the head.

[Banditbandit]

It was said by Guy Esponer that it was very unlikely that the Government will adopt the recommendation. He also claimed that the head of the report stated that the average NZ'er does not earn enough to increase their savings, despite a need for an increase of personal saving of $5b, an average of $1000 for every NZer.

Dickheads .. by lowering tax rates they are increasing the size of our pay packets and by increasing GST they are discouraging us from spending the increased money - saving the extra money instead ...

But then they admit, with the same breath, that the average kiwi can't afford to save anyway ....

Jeez - the neo-liberals can't get any dumber can they?


That's why they need a working group whose members are not fucked in the head.

All working party memebrs are fucked in the head - you have to be to get on one ...

[Smifffy]

Jeez - the neo-liberals can't get any dumber can they?


All working party memebrs are fucked in the head - you have to be to get on one ...


It also aids selection if they have nothing else better to do.

[SMOKEU]

In NZ we get ripped off enough as it is for just about everything (not just by the government, but it all adds up) so we really don't need any more taxes.

[The Stranger]

Government group wants GST at 17.5%

Excellent news. Why should the black economy escape taxation?
Bring it on - but with a reduction in income tax.

[Oscar]

Excellent news. Why should the black economy escape taxation?
Bring it on - but with a reduction in income tax.

I'm with you - reduce my Income Tax and increase GST.:yes:

[Banditbandit]

I'm with you - reduce my Income Tax and increase GST.:yes:

Why ? I mean .. seriously ??? Why ???? What will that achieve ????

[red mermaid]

VAT, the English equivalent of GST, is 20%.

[Suntoucher]

Why ? I mean .. seriously ??? Why ???? What will that achieve ????

Would work for me, easier to save if you wish and I buy a lot overseas. Would be more money in my pocket in the end.

[Oscar]

Why ? I mean .. seriously ??? Why ???? What will that achieve ????

I'd rather pay a sales/consumption tax than an income tax.
It rewards saving.

[MisterD]

Why ? I mean .. seriously ??? Why ???? What will that achieve ????

Well the effect of the last tax cut and GST increase has apparently been to increase the amount of debt that people have paid down and increased savings...so more of the same presumably.

I'd be inclined to leave it a bit longer to get a real steer on the overall effect of that last change though.



VAT, the English equivalent of GST, is 20%.

Yeah, but it has only just gone there because G.Brown fucked the economy sooo comprehensively.

[mashman]

Bring it on - but with a reduction in income tax.


Has this round of income tax cuts, taxation/levy rises and GST rises, been tax neutral? JK was asked this question the other day and didn't respond. And now that we're an extra $50 million in the hole per week, i'm going for a BIG no, they haven't been tax neutral at all, but have been used to appeal to a minority view of what the "lazy bastards" should be doing... and if they refuse to play that game, then fuck 'em, tax them as hard as you can... brilliant attitude from the top...

NZ has been slashing costs left and right in an attempt to control govt spending and debt, increasing taxations across the board and putting those who didn't get anything out of the income tax cut in a position where they have taken not only a pay cut, but I would venture in many cases, have had to consider their career options to the point where they are willing to become another employment statistic, along with those who have been turfed out in the name of efficiency. Go get another job? What jobs?

What? Cry us a river? :rofl: the elitist and, in my eyes, ignorant view of reality that you display in your posts, always brings a smile to my face and a warm glow to my heart. Tarring everyone with the, you're a lazy bastard if you've got no money, or you haven't made it, strikes me as exceptionally vane and naive... The contempt you show towards society and what you deem to be the lack lustre, under achieving performers and black marketeers shows you do not value anyone that doesn't fit your criteria for membership of the human race. Funny thing is, you probably need those people somewhere along your "food" chain. You are the me me me generation. The country that provided for you and you families from birth (you're silver spoon boys?) obviously taking a distant back seat on your list of priorities. Would you dump the chips on your shoulders and think about helping to get the country back onto its feet by paying more than your fair share in tax, allowing minimal pain to be felt by those who are struggling and would like to be where you are? I bet that's a resounding no too.

But I have been wrong in the past :)

[Oscar]

Has this round of income tax cuts, taxation/levy rises and GST rises, been tax neutral? JK was asked this question the other day and didn't respond. And now that we're an extra $50 million in the hole per week, i'm going for a BIG no, they haven't been tax neutral at all, but have been used to appeal to a minority view of what the "lazy bastards" should be doing... and if they refuse to play that game, then fuck 'em, tax them as hard as you can... brilliant attitude from the top...



Before dealing with the non sequiturs, argumentum ad hominem and downright rudeness of the rest of your post, how do you know that the last tax cut wasn't tax neutral? Perhaps, before you go off on your usual personal attacks, you should offer some modicum of proof?

Aside from that, why do you keep putting words in my mouth (posts)?
I have never called anyone a lazy bastard or showed contempt toward anyone but you, and then only when you had it coming (like now).

[PrincessBandit]

VAT, the English equivalent of GST, is 20%.

I reckon that's what they're ultimately after; they're just making it seem like "only a little increase" so that when they add the next "little increase" on before you know it it will be 20 fricken percent.

[mashman]

Before dealing with the non sequiturs, argumentum ad hominem and downright rudeness of the rest of your post, how do you know that the last tax cut wasn't tax neutral? Perhaps, before you go off on your usual personal attacks, you should offer some modicum of proof?

Aside from that, why do you keep putting words in my mouth (posts)?
I have never called anyone a lazy bastard or showed contempt toward anyone but you, and then only when you had it coming (like now).

That intro was all Greek to me...

pot kettle black! If you had read the post, instead of getting your knickers in a twist, you may have noticed the question mark at the end of the sentence... It was not a statement of fact. I then proceeded to post my opinion based on JK's response to a radio interview. The non hyperbole version being, if it had been tax neutral, imho, he would have crowed about it. He didn't, he deflected and moved on... hence my conclusion.

That's fair enough, I can see how you could take it that way... but I wasn't attempting to put words in your mouth, moreover pre-empting a mantra, for anyone else that may have been reading, that I hear all to often and read on internet forums in answer to questions over income tax cuts.

As for the contempt, perhaps I have you all wrong and read your posts in the same tone to which you address me, which I have no problem with massa :). The language you should have dismissed as hyperbole, as per usual, yet you choose to take offence this time. I won't apologise for that. You had it coming :), but again, that's just my opinion.

I'll not bother asking the final question again... and as I did with JK, i'll make my own mind up based on your silence.

[Oscar]

That intro was all Greek to me...

pot kettle black! If you had read the post, instead of getting your knickers in a twist, you may have noticed the question mark at the end of the sentence... It was not a statement of fact. I then proceeded to post my opinion based on JK's response to a radio interview. The non hyperbole version being, if it had been tax neutral, imho, he would have crowed about it. He didn't, he deflected and moved on... hence my conclusion.

That's fair enough, I can see how you could take it that way... but I wasn't attempting to put words in your mouth, moreover pre-empting a mantra, for anyone else that may have been reading, that I hear all to often and read on internet forums in answer to questions over income tax cuts.

As for the contempt, perhaps I have you all wrong and read your posts in the same tone to which you address me, which I have no problem with massa :). The language you should have dismissed as hyperbole, as per usual, yet you choose to take offence this time. I won't apologise for that. You had it coming :), but again, that's just my opinion.

I'll not bother asking the final question again... and as I did with JK, i'll make my own mind up based on your silence.


You are going down your usual nonsensical route of gibberish, innuendo and hyperbole and frankly it's boring.
I suggest you either double the dosage or half the dosage, whatever helps you cope with life.
Whatever you do, you just aren't worth the time.
Good night.

[DEVVIL]

I'd rather pay a sales/consumption tax than an income tax.
It rewards saving.

Its called GST after you're income tax so
The GST on you're rego is a tax on a tax on a tax
Who's next = We all are.....:angry:

[98tls]

Fuck raising GST,why dont they man up and simply lose the "working for familys" bludgefest and limit the dole to say 6 months,if you cant find a job in 6 months you never will so move somewhere where there is one.

[Oscar]

Fuck raising GST,why dont they man up and simply lose the "working for familys" bludgefest and limit the dole to say 6 months,if you cant find a job in 6 months you never will so move somewhere where there is one.

For God's sake, stop making sense man!

Mashman will call you names....

[mashman]

You are going down your usual nonsensical route of gibberish, innuendo and hyperbole and frankly it's boring.
I suggest you either double the dosage or half the dosage, whatever helps you cope with life.
Whatever you do, you just aren't worth the time.
Good night.

I'll up my doseage as you recommend... Good night, sleep well darlin...

[mashman]

Fuck raising GST,why dont they man up and simply lose the "working for familys" bludgefest and limit the dole to say 6 months,if you cant find a job in 6 months you never will so move somewhere where there is one.

Coz the PC folk won't let that happen I guess "insert sticks and stones of own choosing"... I'd like to see it gone too, kinda, as it's a rort for the other end of the bludging spectrum.

[Mully]

Raising GST won't happen in the short term - it's political suicide for any party to even suggest.

I wouldnt be surprised, if Labour ever get back in, to see a compulsory Super scheme like Australia's implemented though. It's not perfect, but A$1.2 Trillion (or whatver the value is, it's something enormous) is difficult to ignore.

Plus maybe a Gummint Guarantee for Kiwisaver funds too.

Kiwisaver is difficult to argue with though - chucking the $1040/year in the pot gets you a 300% return (400% in the first year). Course, we're in a position where we can have independant savings too.

[mashman]

Raising GST won't happen in the short term - it's political suicide for any party to even suggest.

I wouldnt be surprised, if Labour ever get back in, to see a compulsory Super scheme like Australia's implemented though. It's not perfect, but A$1.2 Trillion (or whatver the value is, it's something enormous) is difficult to ignore.

Plus maybe a Gummint Guarantee for Kiwisaver funds too.

Kiwisaver is difficult to argue with though - chucking the $1040/year in the pot gets you a 300% return (400% in the first year). Course, we're in a position where we can have independant savings too.

The news folk just said as much... Bill English confirming that they won;t put it up... whew...

I opted out of Kiwisaver, simply because I really couldn't afford it with putting one of the kids through Montessori etc... and figured it was better spent there...

[The Stranger]

Why ? I mean .. seriously ??? Why ???? What will that achieve ????

It casts the tax net wider.
The Plumber (replace with virtually any trade) that does a cash job, who collects his income tax? The theif, the fence, the drug dealer - who's collecting their income tax? Why should they trade tax free? Just because they are breaking the law should they also be rewarded for it?

The higher the rate of GST the more of that money gets caught in the tax net and in theory the less is required of mine. Well that's the theory, but the reality of what the govt would do with any "extra" money could well be different.

Sure, there are other pros and cons. But that is the angle I was coming from.

[BMWST?]

Why ? I mean .. seriously ??? Why ???? What will that achieve ????

because people can arrange their finaces to avoid income tax....its more difficult to avoid gst

[rustic101]

Personally, I'm no financial wizard but a quick whip through Google indictaes that NZ has the lowest Goods and Services Tax in the OECD. Then again I could be wrong.:facepalm:

P.S - So I have a poo load of Bonus Bonds. Does that mean I'm avoiding paying tax???? Never figured that bit out!

[98tls]

Raising GST won't happen in the short term - it's political suicide for any party to even suggest.

I wouldnt be surprised, if Labour ever get back in, to see a compulsory Super scheme like Australia's implemented though. It's not perfect, but A$1.2 Trillion (or whatver the value is, it's something enormous) is difficult to ignore.

Plus maybe a Gummint Guarantee for Kiwisaver funds too.

Kiwisaver is difficult to argue with though - chucking the $1040/year in the pot gets you a 300% return (400% in the first year). Course, we're in a position where we can have independant savings too.

Course they will get back in,its the Kiwi way.Simply put in there pre election bullshit they will promise bludgers,Maori,single parents,anyone living on an island within floating distance a better deal and bingo,election won.This countrys up to its neck in shit and considering the make up of said country i cant see anyway out for it to be honest,mind you no different to anywhere else the damage is already done and elections will be won simply on promises.,without doubt Clarke put the noose round our necks.

[The Stranger]

What? Cry us a river? :rofl: the elitist and, in my eyes, ignorant view of reality that you display in your posts, always brings a smile to my face and a warm glow to my heart. Tarring everyone with the, you're a lazy bastard if you've got no money, or you haven't made it, strikes me as exceptionally vane and naive... The contempt you show towards society and what you deem to be the lack lustre, under achieving performers and black marketeers shows you do not value anyone that doesn't fit your criteria for membership of the human race. Funny thing is, you probably need those people somewhere along your "food" chain. You are the me me me generation. The country that provided for you and you families from birth (you're silver spoon boys?) obviously taking a distant back seat on your list of priorities. Would you dump the chips on your shoulders and think about helping to get the country back onto its feet by paying more than your fair share in tax, allowing minimal pain to be felt by those who are struggling and would like to be where you are? I bet that's a resounding no too.

But I have been wrong in the past :)

Fricken awesome!
This post needs to be preserved as a classic display of raw KB ignorant passion. Some "intellectual" makes an assumption then proceeds to base an entire tirade on his erroneous assumption as if it held some shred of reality.
KB knowledge at it's very finest. Wicked!

[geoffm]

NZ has been slashing costs left and right in an attempt to control govt spending and debt, increasing taxations across the board and putting those who didn't get anything out of the income tax cut in a position where they have taken not only a pay cut, but I would venture in many cases, have had to consider their career options to the point where they are willing to become another employment statistic, along with those who have been turfed out in the name of efficiency. Go get another job? What jobs?


No, they haven't been slashing costs - they have been fiddling aroudn the edges. If they wanted to slash costs, there are lots of Ministries and various quangos to get rid of.
Does NZ REALLY need a Ministry of Woman's Affairs, a Minster of Racing, Families Commission, Human Rights Commission, etc? Get rid of them, wholesale and really save some money.
The rot started with Muldoon, who wanted his cabinet bigger than half the caucus, so he could keep his enemies closer, and have a majority of people in caucus who owed him favours.

[mashman]

Fricken awesome!
This post needs to be preserved as a classic display of raw KB ignorant passion. Some "intellectual" makes an assumption then proceeds to base an entire tirade on his erroneous assumption as if it held some shred of reality.
KB knowledge at it's very finest. Wicked!

Glad I could oblige... again...

[mashman]

No, they haven't been slashing costs - they have been fiddling aroudn the edges. If they wanted to slash costs, there are lots of Ministries and various quangos to get rid of.
Does NZ REALLY need a Ministry of Woman's Affairs, a Minster of Racing, Families Commission, Human Rights Commission, etc? Get rid of them, wholesale and really save some money.
The rot started with Muldoon, who wanted his cabinet bigger than half the caucus, so he could keep his enemies closer, and have a majority of people in caucus who owed him favours.

Fiddling it is then... I guess i'll never appreciate politics, or indeed understand it...

[The Stranger]

Fiddling it is then... I guess i'll never appreciate politics, or indeed understand it...

FFS don't let a minor detail like that stop you.

[98tls]

No, they haven't been slashing costs - they have been fiddling aroudn the edges. If they wanted to slash costs, there are lots of Ministries and various quangos to get rid of.
Does NZ REALLY need a Ministry of Woman's Affairs, a Minster of Racing, Families Commission, Human Rights Commission, etc? Get rid of them, wholesale and really save some money.
The rot started with Muldoon, who wanted his cabinet bigger than half the caucus, so he could keep his enemies closer, and have a majority of people in caucus who owed him favours.

Fuck at least you got a laugh outta Rob:corn:Does NZ really need suburbs made up of bludgers?even worse after a mandortary time of bludging there allowed to bring in related bludgers:facepalm:Wish you people would at least discuss some of the real problems.Sort out immigration/dole bludgers incl of working for pokie :facepalm:familys,ignore anything called "treaty claims" and you have the start of a comeback for this country.

[p.dath]

The problem with the last GST increase is by the time it got down the line to the end consumers the increase was not 2.5% but in some cases had reached up to 7.5% and higher as each person in the supply link added it on.

You do realise that businesses (aka, people in the supply link) don't pay GST? Only end users pay.

An increase in GST does not affect the operating cost of a business (only operating cash flow). There is no "ramping" up impact from middle men caused solely by GST.



and limit the dole to say 6 months,if you cant find a job in 6 months you never will so move somewhere where there is one.

Tough one. There is a relationship between crime and those people who have no income. If you take away someone's only source of income (the unemployment benefit in this case) expect a sharp increase in crime (people will commit crime to stay alive). That cost of that increase in crime may well exceed the cost of the benefit they previously got.


It casts the tax net wider.
The Plumber (replace with virtually any trade) that does a cash job, who collects his income tax? The theif, the fence, the drug dealer - who's collecting their income tax? Why should they trade tax free? Just because they are breaking the law should they also be rewarded for it?

The higher the rate of GST the more of that money gets caught in the tax net and in theory the less is required of mine. Well that's the theory, but the reality of what the govt would do with any "extra" money could well be different.


+1. Completely agree.


because people can arrange their finaces to avoid income tax....its more difficult to avoid gst

+1. Completely agree. Would you rather the people of the nation paid $500m to accounts and lawyers to come up with schemes to avoid paying tax, or simply change to a consumption tax that everyone pays, and wipe out the tax "reduction" industry?

[avgas]

I reckon increase gst to 20% and make a flat 20% income tax.
Make the poor save, and penalize the rich who spend.

We could even have an economy (out of it) once people have sorted their priorities out. And the dollar could be worth something.

[avgas]

Newsflash!

Govt taxes people, People not happy

and comming up next:
how to save a kitten from a tree.

.....oh yeah and something about Cairo

[NighthawkNZ]

and I buy a lot overseas.

They are cracking down on that too and you will be paying GST on it soon enough... At present only if the value is over a certian dollar value or something?

[Banditbandit]

It casts the tax net wider.
The Plumber (replace with virtually any trade) that does a cash job, who collects his income tax? The theif, the fence, the drug dealer - who's collecting their income tax? Why should they trade tax free? Just because they are breaking the law should they also be rewarded for it?

The higher the rate of GST the more of that money gets caught in the tax net and in theory the less is required of mine. Well that's the theory, but the reality of what the govt would do with any "extra" money could well be different.

Sure, there are other pros and cons. But that is the angle I was coming from.


because people can arrange their finaces to avoid income tax....its more difficult to avoid gst


OK .. yes, theoretically that would work (By the way, a lot of my old criminal friends - I have little to do with them any more - pay taxes on criminal earnings, because if they get caught by the law they also get hit by the taxman ... the last big case of the taxman hitting criminals which made publicity in GodZone was the Mister Asia ring - many of them got hit by IRD and lost everything)

The size of the Black Economy in NZ has been estimated at anywhere between 12% and 20% of GDP (the most likely and support by evidence claim I've seen is around 14%) - that's a large chunk of money floating through this country that is not taxed in any way - a rough estimate if it was taxed would be a 14% increase in the Govt tax take - so your argument does hold some water ...

And yes, people do avoid paying income tax - GST is harder to avoid.

Good discussion paper here ... http://oldfraser.lexi.net/publications/books/fiscal_surplus/chapter5.html

The problem is that a lot of the stays in the Black Economy - for instance, how do you claim GST on tinnies? A tradesman dealing in cash jobs is likely to support others doing the same. Sure, he will buy food, pay the power bill, etc etc .. but that won't change. So putting up GST and lowering other taxes will hit the a same people, those who live and work in the normal economy.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Newsflash!

Govt taxes people, People not happy

and comming up next:
how to save a kitten from a tree.

.....oh yeah and something about Cairo

Hey! Ive got a kitteh up a tree over here? where's my headsup on how to get him down??????????

[SPman]

FFS don't let a minor detail like that stop you.
hey - it's never stopped the politicians.......

Personally, I'm no financial wizard but a quick whip through Google indictaes that NZ has the lowest Goods and Services Tax in the OECD. Then again I could be wrong.:facepalm: Correct. Aus has 10%. You were.

[Smifffy]

Raising GST won't happen in the short term - it's political suicide for any party to even suggest.

I wouldnt be surprised, if Labour ever get back in, to see a compulsory Super scheme like Australia's implemented though. It's not perfect, but A$1.2 Trillion (or whatver the value is, it's something enormous) is difficult to ignore.

Plus maybe a Gummint Guarantee for Kiwisaver funds too.

Kiwisaver is difficult to argue with though - chucking the $1040/year in the pot gets you a 300% return (400% in the first year). Course, we're in a position where we can have independant savings too.

Feckers had darn near 10 years to do all that, but preferred to spend their time 'social engineering'.

Feckin great society they've engineered too innit?

[Mully]

Feckers had darn near 10 years to do all that, but preferred to spend their time 'social engineering'.

Feckin great society they've engineered too innit?

In fairness, they did bring in Kiwisaver in the first place.

I have often wondered if Kiwisaver was always going to be made compulsory if Labour had won in 2008.

[The Stranger]

OK .. yes, theoretically that would work (By the way, a lot of my old criminal friends - I have little to do with them any more - pay taxes on criminal earnings

Of course, honest criminals, whatever was I thinking?

[Clockwork]

Raising GST and lowering Personal tax is just the latest tack from the flat tax for all brigade.

While I can accept the arguments in favour of its wider net and "allegedly" it encourages people to save (this seems a self defeating argument when the only reason to save is in order to spend more later but since you'll be paying more GST on whatever it is you wish to buy, what will that have accomplished you?) The fact remains that because GST is not progressive, higher sales tax in lifes essentials will hit the poor and low income earners the hardest.

Who of you supporters of this proposal would be in favour of an increase in minimum wage and benefits to assist these people?


ps I've just realised why we're all to be encouraged to save. Its not for the benefit of the saver, its for the benefit of the money users!!! (aka Banks and Business)

[NighthawkNZ]

ps I've just realised why we're all to be encouraged to save. Its not for the benefit of the saver, its for the benefit of the money users!!! (aka Banks and Business)

been like that for years... ;)

[avgas]

Hey! Ive got a kitteh up a tree over here? where's my headsup on how to get him down??????????
Ask Tamati

not that he knows how to get pussy out of a bush

[avgas]

In fairness, they did bring in Kiwisaver in the first place.

I have often wondered if Kiwisaver was always going to be made compulsory if Labour had won in 2008.
Likewise
I wonder if SCF / Dorchester / St Laurence Ltd / Dominion Finance Holdings / IMP Diversified Fund / Belgrave Finance / MFS Pacific Finance / Cymbis New Zealand / Kiwi Finance / Lombard Finance and Investments / MFS Boston..... would have had a Kiwisaver schemes if Labour got in, in 2008?

[Banditbandit]

Of course, honest criminals, whatever was I thinking?

No .. just intellegent ones .. if you got to jail for a few years you still have stuff waiting when you get out ... if you fuck with IRD they will clean you out and you come out of jail possibly still owing the money on what they assessed you owe and did not recover by selling everything you own ...

[Smifffy]

No .. just intellegent ones .. if you got to jail for a few years you still have stuff waiting when you get out ... if you fuck with IRD they will clean you out and you come out of jail possibly still owing the money on what they assessed you owe and did not recover by selling everything you own ...

Yup that about sums up the NZ 'justice' system - IRD is a bigger deterrent than jail.

[Flip]

A consumption tax is a fair way to get tax from everybody, every kid who buys a ice block to every pensioner who buys a new zimmer frame. Every crim who doesn't pay PAYE and every dodgy business man who earns nothing but lives in a million dollar house pays some thing.

What earks me is the real value of my savings dropped 2.5% last month. But on the other hand the value of my bricks and mortar went up 2.5%.

When GST was introduced wasn't the tax take 5% higher than the govt expected.

[p.dath]

I'm a proponent of higher GST and lower income tax.

High income tax creates an industry of lawyers and accountants who create schemes to minimise the tax of those who can afford to pay their fees.

High GST creates a cash economy - because cash transactions are untraceable. And people still want to buy goods - which creates a much bigger demand for stolen goods. I suspect the withdrawal of large amounts of cash from the economy will go along towards stopping this avoidance, and associated crime.

The trick is to get the right balance without creating a whole new sector of business - either for criminals or lawyers/accountants. It's funny how one of those two is the main beneficiary.

[R6_kid]

When will the government realise, it's got to be funky sexy ladies!?