Who is sick of all the Waitangi bullshit?

[Bald Eagle]

We are not looking at equality, but at Equity - a slightly different thing.



A convenient difference - a bit like an NZQA mark out of a hundred that's not a percentage then is it ?

[admenk]

There are balck people that grew up in tin shacks on the outskirts of "white suburbs" in Apartheid South Africa, with no food in their bellies for days on end, no running water, and studying by candle light. Yet they still succeeded in their studies, some obtained bursaries or scolarships, and made a better life for themselves. Why? Because their parents understood what was required, how important education was, and cared enough to make them understand. And did what they could to support them.



I suspect that an awful lot of them are still poor though. I hear what you're saying, but If hard work and determination were all that was needed, there wouldn't be billions in this world living in poverty. Most of them probably work a lot harder than I ever will, and really want to better themselves, but never will. Maybe a lot of people out there didn't get the opportunities that we did. What we make of our lives is influenced by a whole load of different things, some of them unfortunatly out of our control.

[R-Soul]

I suspect that an awful lot of them are still poor though. I hear what you're saying, but If hard work and determination were all that was needed, there wouldn't be billions in this world living in poverty. Most of them probably work a lot harder than I ever will, and really want to better themselves, but never will. Maybe a lot of people out there didn't get the opportunities that we did. What we make of our lives is influenced by a whole load of different things, some of them unfortunatly out of our control.

All I am saying is that NZ DOES offer opportunities- pretty much universally, and free to the poorest- to those who are willing to take them. How much more opportunities do people want? In NZ, you have to duck to prevent opportunities from smacking you in the face FFS!

If the SA government offered $10k payments to teaching students like they did here, the next day they would be gone. People walk around for 6 months from industrial zone to industrial zone, asking for jobs, and being unsuccessful. People actually die of hunger on the street there! A Port Elizabeth based manufacturing company let it be known that they would be hiring people for 100 new production line jobs, and the next day they something likke 20k people waiting outside the factory.


I have no sympathy for "poor whites" in South Africa at this stage. If they could not get off their asses and do something for themselves after 30 years of preferential treatment and job reservation, its because they did not want to take the opportunities presented. It is the duty of each parent to put themselves into a situation wher they can put their kids into a better situation, or die trying.

[Paul in NZ]

Phew ... so much anger and hatred ... is it any wonder that some of our young peopel hate you right back?...

Yeah - where did that come from? It was going quite well up till thennn


Anyways - I'm on the road for the next six days (Yahooo ...) so I might respond when I get back ... sometime next week ... the anger will disappear about 30 seconds after I start the bike ... coffee, cigarette and I'm gone ...

Have a great ride my friend - you have certainly earnt it. I've really enjoyed reading the stuff you have written. We may not agree 100% but you have argued your end like a gentleman and with respect I have to say well done and thank you. If you ever stand for public office, I'd bloody vote for you!

Good onya!

[SMOKEU]

I have no sympathy for "poor whites" in South Africa at this stage. If they could not get off their asses and do something for themselves after 30 years of preferential treatment and job reservation, its because they did not want to take the opportunities presented. It is the duty of each parent to put themselves into a situation wher they can put their kids into a better situation, or die trying.

I'm South African and the kaffirs there get preferential treatment over whites these days. There are very few job opportunities there for anyone, regardless of race if they don't have the right qualifications.

[R-Soul]

I'm South African and the kaffirs there get preferential treatment over whites these days. There are very few job opportunities there for anyone, regardless of race if they don't have the right qualifications.

And with mentaility like yours, I am not surprised that you never got a job. :facepalm:

At the moment there is a redress of past imbalances that is happening in SA. Which I agree with, but cannot live with.

I realise that this process will limit my childrens opportunities - and probably theri children's opportunities, and chose to move to a place where they (and I) will be treated equally.

Honestly, I dont think Kiwis understand how good they have got it, in global terms.

[SMOKEU]

And with mentaility like yours, I am not surprised that you never got a job. :facepalm:

I haven't tried looking for a job over there, but I have (white) family members over there.

[R-Soul]

I haven't tried looking for a job over there, but I have (white) family members over there.

The point I am trying to make is that over there, there were, and still are (just the otherway around) real legal, structural and ecoomic woes that prevent people from having opportunities. Over here, there are NONE - just maybe percieved ones.

[avgas]

Honestly, I dont think Kiwis understand how good they have got it, in global terms.
Yep.
I didn't know how good it was until I went overseas.

If we could just fix the arseholes here we would be perfect

[admenk]

If we could just fix the arseholes here we would be perfect

Now don't you go picking on me

[oldrider]

Funny thing about Maori (no under or overtones intended here) is just how well they seem to do when they venture overseas!

I know quite a few in all sorts of different locations and they fair thrive!

Makes me wonder, what or who holds them back here?

They have told me the answer to that question but do they tell us "all" what they think we might want to hear?

Like I said funny thing!

Then again most Kiwi's seem to do OK when they go overseas don't they! :yes:

[avgas]

Now don't you go picking on me
Your not a full blown arsehole, more a tight sphincter

[Bald Eagle]

We should at least all be thankful for the existence of the Treaty. It has probably prevented the existence/occurrence of racial reservations and armed conflict.

P.S It has also by way of the Treaty industry provided a lot of employment for both Maori and Pakeha.

[Laava]

Funny thing about Maori (no under or overtones intended here) is just how well they seem to do when they venture overseas!

I know quite a few in all sorts of different locations and they fair thrive!

Makes me wonder, what or who holds them back here?

They have told me the answer to that question but do they tell us "all" what they think we might want to hear?

Like I said funny thing!

Then again most Kiwi's seem to do OK when they go overseas don't they! :yes:

I heard that comment a few times when I lived in the UK. "You Kiwis are all good workers". I used to reply that it was generally only the working types that go on an OE. Based on that there are plenty of useless bludgers in NZ as well!

[crazyhorse]

who is sick of it??? me, me and still me!

[avgas]

P.S It has also by way of the Treaty industry provided a lot of employment for both Maori and Pakeha.
Just like the ETS :shutup:

[Teflon]

The good news is that the world is going to be Chinese or Indian!

White genocide isn't good news...

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BQelsb-bMJY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

White genocide isn't good news...

Hello! ... Hopefully you are not inferring that there is any other "good news" type of genocide then? :facepalm:

[SMOKEU]

Hello! ... Hopefully you are not inferring that there is any other "good news" type of genocide then? :facepalm:

I believe it was called "ethnic cleansing".

[Teflon]

Hello! ... Hopefully you are not inferring that there is any other "good news" type of genocide then? :facepalm:

Hello

Culling of a inferior race for the survival of the white race would be a good start, and good news.

[oldrider]

Hello

Culling of a inferior race for the survival of the white race would be a good start, and good news.

:sick: fucker!

[Paul in NZ]

Hello

Culling of a inferior race for the survival of the white race would be a good start, and good news.

Please tell me this is some kinda joke? Its not a funny one if it is....

[R-Soul]

White genocide isn't good news...

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BQelsb-bMJY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I was not referring to genocide - no killling involved. There will merely be a large influx of asians that are rich and smart and work hard, and will intermingle in society, and intermarry, and eventually everybody will have dark(er) hair and eyes and skin. All very peaceful and voluntary. I have no pronlem with that. Some whites frankly could use a little depth in their gene pools...

Lets face it, if China or India exported 0.001% of their top brains./entrepreneurs to anywhere, any other country would be quite willing to take them in. But put it into perspective: 0.001% of China would probably double or triple NZ's population...

I am not saying this with any kind of bias or bigotry or angle - but when you look at the numbers statistically, you cannot really come to any other conclusion.

[SMOKEU]

http://www.whitepridehomeschool.com/wplogo.gif

[ducatilover]

That ought to spark some tasty remarks SMOKEU :innocent:

[onearmedbandit]

That ought to spark some tasty remarks SMOKEU :innocent:

It reminds me of something though, years ago a Blues and Jazz album was advertised on TV. It was called 'Black and Beautiful'. Just imagine the outcry if there was an album advertised on national TV called 'White and Wonderful'. Or if we had a national 'whites only' rugby team.

[SMOKEU]

That ought to spark some tasty remarks SMOKEU :innocent:

Just sit back, and wait for the bait to be taken hook, line and sinker.


It reminds me of something though, years ago a Blues and Jazz album was advertised on TV. It was called 'Black and Beautiful'. Just imagine the outcry if there was an album advertised on national TV called 'White and Wonderful'. Or if we had a national 'whites only' rugby team.

If the Maoris can have their own rugby team, then the whites deserve to have a white rugby team.

[ducatilover]

It reminds me of something though, years ago a Blues and Jazz album was advertised on TV. It was called 'Black and Beautiful'. Just imagine the outcry if there was an album advertised on national TV called 'White and Wonderful'. Or if we had a national 'whites only' rugby team.
What about a prejudiced all white political party with some foul mouthed racist fucks?


Just sit back, and wait for the bait to be taken hook, line and sinker.


:rockon:

[scott411]

i think the whole depletion of self responsibilty has lead to this, basically you need someone to blame for your own failings,

NZ is still somewhere you can rise from the bottom and get to the the top, John Key is a perfect example, from a single mother in a state house, to a very successfull businessman and then prime minister,

the under class, (in which Maori is over represented) need to help themselves mainly, and have pride in themselves, if this comes from thier culture, or from capitalisms want to be better than the next door neighbour it does not really matter,

as for the first question, i do not celebrate waitangi day, nor the treaty that was poorly written, and shockingly translated, that has little relervence to the modern world that we all live in, the sooner we leave it as a piece of history, and move on to become one people under one set of laws, then the sooner we will prosper together,

[onearmedbandit]

John Key is a perfect example, from a single mother in a state house, to a very successfull businessman and then prime minister,



Wow he, ah I mean she has done well hasn't ah, she?

[scott411]

well, he has prob done better with the cards he has delt than the last he/she.

but unfortunatly they still have to get people to vote for them, its hard to be popular and make the hard calls that need to be made, which is why both sides fight to hold the centre ground,

[SPman]

Yep.

If we could just fix the arseholes here we would be perfect

Hmmmmm....in what way do you mean that..........:love:.....:shutup:

[SMOKEU]

Spare us mate and fuck off back wherever home was for you. You and all the white this white that, TV said this so I better think the same unoriginal misinformed need to get out ride your bike and go and see the real NZ it's full of decent people of all creeds doing the right thing. You just don't see it on the six o'clock news because that sort of stuff does not generate sufficient advertising revenue.

I guess reading through all this shit it is clear that the media get to decide what we think. I ride a bike therefore I'm off to the garage and make sure my "P" lab is all running as it should.

I bet you're just one of those trolls that won't last long on KB. We get many noobs who sign up, start a little shit with people, then when things get too hard they go and cry to their mommy, never to be seen again on KB.

[jaffamont]

I bet you're just one of those trolls that won't last long on KB. We get many noobs who sign up, start a little shit with people, then when things get too hard they go and cry to their mommy, never to be seen again on KB.

Me Noob? I'm not the one riding a fucking sewing machine mate.

[98tls]

[QUOTE=jaffamont; fucking sewing machine .[/QUOTE]

Interesting concept.

[SMOKEU]

Me Noob? I'm not the one riding a fucking sewing machine mate.

You haven't been on KB that long so you're a KB noob. We see plenty of people like you come and go on these forums.

[oldrider]

well, he has prob done better with the cards he has delt than the last he/she.

but unfortunatly they still have to get people to vote for them, its hard to be popular and make the hard calls that need to be made, which is why both sides fight to hold the centre ground,

True .... but actually it is centre left or even well left of centre, they only tip toe to the right when they need to make some progress!

The left is chock full of mediocrity (or less) and unfortunately Maori (generalisation) seem to be attracted to that! :facepalm:

[ac3_snow]

If the Maoris can have their own rugby team, then the whites deserve to have a white rugby team.

you would think so eh? but fuck no imagine the bullshit storm that would come about for even trying it, that would be far to racist! (plus to be brutally honest would probably be a pretty average team)

[SMOKEU]

you would think so eh? but fuck no imagine the bullshit storm that would come about for even trying it, that would be far to racist! (plus to be brutally honest would probably be a pretty average team)

I don't see why the Maoris can get away with racism, yet if a white person even mentions white pride they get chucked in the sin bin.

[Bald Eagle]

I don't see why the Maoris can get away with racism, yet if a white person even mentions white pride they get chucked in the sin bin.

NZ Dictionary of Politically Correct terms.

racist (n): definition = White person

there fixed.

[SMOKEU]

This here is a good thread to read http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t378767/

[R-Soul]

This here is a good thread to read http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t378767/

Sure if you like reading drivel with no substantiated thought behind it... :facepalm:

[SMOKEU]

Sure if you like reading drivel with no substantiated thought behind it... :facepalm:

That reminds me of another forum, one we are all too familiar with...

[imdying]

Well, that site is an eye opener for sure.

I'll stick with the bike related drivel myself.

[R-Soul]

Well, that site is an eye opener for sure.

I'll stick with the bike related drivel myself.

Yes- I had no idea that rednecks were computer literate. Maybe their 6 year old duaghters were typing for them... :shutup:

[Dean]

If the Maoris can have their own rugby team, then the whites deserve to have a white rugby team.
...you do realise Dan Carter is Maori right?

Hell the majority of the Kiwis leauge team, the team that beat Australia in the 4nations, are Maori. And the Junior kiwis, our future in leauge, are all poly and Maori.

I'd hate to know how bad the 'white rugby team' and leauge would be without Maori and Polynesians. Would be embarrising to watch to be honest. If NZ Maori without their best players can beat England...sheesh:shit::yes: Sorry bro but deep down you know this.

[jaffamont]

You haven't been on KB that long so you're a KB noob. We see plenty of people like you come and go on these forums.

Mate i'd never want to be a part of your "WE". Do everybody a favour and give yourself an uppercut.

[Hans]

Mate i'd never want to be a part of your "WE". Do everybody a favour and give yourself an uppercut.

Don't worry, you never will be. "We" wouldn't do that to ourselves.

[SMOKEU]

...you do realise Dan Carter is Maori right?

Hell the majority of the Kiwis leauge team, the team that beat Australia in the 4nations, are Maori. And the Junior kiwis, our future in leauge, are all poly and Maori.

I'd hate to know how bad the 'white rugby team' and leauge would be without Maori and Polynesians. Would be embarrising to watch to be honest. If NZ Maori without their best players can beat England...sheesh:shit::yes: Sorry bro but deep down you know this.

I don't follow what's in the sports news.

[jaffamont]

Don't worry, you never will be. "We" wouldn't do that to ourselves.

Oh piss off you fucking tosser. Those that are from here probably have a right to complain about the way the feel they are treated, but you arseholses that get here and start mouthing off should just leave. Cannot imagine too many people will give a shit........ Pick ol' Smokkie up on yer way to the airport will ya.

[Hans]

Oh piss off you fucking tosser. Those that are from here probably have a right to complain about the way the feel they are treated, but you arseholses that get here and start mouthing off should just leave. Cannot imagine too many people will give a shit........ Pick ol' Smokkie up on yer way to the airport will ya.

Temper, temper... You big hunk of a manly man, you intimidating beast you...

[SMOKEU]

Oh piss off you fucking tosser. Those that are from here probably have a right to complain about the way the feel they are treated, but you arseholses that get here and start mouthing off should just leave. Cannot imagine too many people will give a shit........ Pick ol' Smokkie up on yer way to the airport will ya.

You should get that sand removed from your vagina ASAP. It looks like it's really starting to piss you off.

[jaffamont]

Temper, temper... You big hunk of a manly man, you intimidating beast you...

Thanks, but I like chicks.........

[SMOKEU]

Thanks, but I like chicks.........

It still doesn't change the fact that you're a complete, utter douche.

[oldrider]

This thread is losing it's way, can sympathise with school teachers trying to keep the kiddies on track! :confused:

[JimO]

This thread is losing it's way, can sympathise with school teachers trying to keep the kiddies on track! :confused:

its like herding cats

[SMOKEU]

This thread is losing it's way, can sympathise with school teachers trying to keep the kiddies on track! :confused:

It should get back to normal once Banditbandit comes back.

[popelli]

i do not celebrate waitangi day, nor the treaty that was poorly written, and shockingly translated, that has little relervence to the modern world that we all live in, the sooner we leave it as a piece of history, and move on to become one people under one set of laws, then the sooner we will prosper together,

plus one to that comment

[BoristheBiter]

...you do realise Dan Carter is Maori right?

Hell the majority of the Kiwis leauge team, the team that beat Australia in the 4nations, are Maori. And the Junior kiwis, our future in leauge, are all poly and Maori.

I'd hate to know how bad the 'white rugby team' and leauge would be without Maori and Polynesians. Would be embarrising to watch to be honest. If NZ Maori without their best players can beat England...sheesh:shit::yes: Sorry bro but deep down you know this.

Not that i really care, but what a crock of shit.
Like the all teams of ooh lets see, England, south Africa, Aussie, France, can't win games because there are no Maori's in them aye.

As for how good the Maori team is, well they are only ever a second string team as the better player's, at the time, play as all blacks.

The league team that you say is so full of Maori keeps getting betten by some white guys from aussie, and when we were closer there where more white guys in it.

I don't care if Maori want there own rugby team but to think that you can't win games unless you are Maori just shows what little thought you put into that post.

[oldrider]

In defence of Honi, did anyone know there was a Maori seat called "Te Tai Tokarau" and who any of the previous incumbents of that seat were?

If he was anyone else would we be saying he is an effective politician, he "is" representing his electorate and getting his electors known about through out the country!

In politics, the only bad publicity is, "no publicity"!

Unfortunately, you can say the same thing about Sue Bradford! :mellow:

[SMOKEU]

In defence of Honi, did anyone know there was a Maori seat called "Te Tai Tokarau" and who any of the previous incumbents of that seat were?

If he was anyone else would we be saying he is an effective politician, he "is" representing his electorate and getting his electors known about through out the country!

In politics, the only bad publicity is, "no publicity"!

Unfortunately, you can say the same thing about Sue Bradford! :mellow:

I don't think anyone pays attention to a bunch of monkeys dressed in suits.

[RDJ]

and unfortunately, Sue Bradford says things...

Memory: I was once at the front of economy class on a work trip in Europe a few years back when she and some fellow Governmentals were putting up with Business Class on a publicly-funded junket. Let's just say that despite the visual barrier of the curtain there was little auditory evidence of fraternal fellow-feeling for the working class (the cabin crew) but a well-exhibited sense of entitlement from that travelling party sucking on the taxpayer teat. I was glad to be mistaken for a non-NZer by the cabin crew that day...

[RDJ]

At the moment there is a redress of past imbalances that is happening in SA. Which I agree with, but cannot live with.

This is curious.

Are you saying thereby that if one group of people oppressed another group of people, then later a different group of people - sharing some visible characteristic be it nationality, ethnicity, skin color etc with the first-oppressed - can and should oppress a fourth group of people... to get some sort of cosmic balance?

Even though those now oppressed did not, personally, oppress those first oppressed?

:facepalm:

[Dean]

Not that i really care, but what a crock of shit.
Like the all teams of ooh lets see, England, south Africa, Aussie, France, can't win games because there are no Maori's in them aye.

As for how good the Maori team is, well they are only ever a second string team as the better player's, at the time, play as all blacks.

The league team that you say is so full of Maori keeps getting betten by some white guys from aussie, and when we were closer there where more white guys in it.

I don't care if Maori want there own rugby team but to think that you can't win games unless you are Maori just shows what little thought you put into that post.
NZ Maori rugby team have beaten all above mentioned as well as Ireland, Barbarians, Tonga, Samoa, Scotland, Wales except South Africa.

Not to mention NZ Maori in league tied with England recently, when the majority of Maori were playing in the Kiwis squad

*Some names from Kiwis Squad for 4nations plus train on, many were also still present when we won the world cup against Aussie.
Adam Blair - Maori
Greg Eastwood Maori
Lance Hohaia Maori
Lewis Brown Maori
Issac Luke Maori
Shaun Kenny Dowell Maori
Warea Haragreaves Maori
Frank Pritchard Cook Is Maori
Benji Marshall Maori
Jason Nightingale Maori
Sam Perret Maori
And then there's the islanders like the Beast Vatuvei and Junior Sau.

The Junior Kiwis our future in league, well dont believe me see for yourself. They won this game as well.
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TNhpRhde9vQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm not saying you can only win games if you're Maori but that the perfect combination of Maori, Polynesian, Pakeha makes us as a nation so successful at sport. And that we do make a big contribution to NZ's sporting industry. A country of only a few million ahead of the world in Netball, Rugby, Rugby League and many others its something special.

Peace, love.

[R-Soul]

This is curious.

Are you saying thereby that if one group of people oppressed another group of people, then later a different group of people - sharing some visible characteristic be it nationality, ethnicity, skin color etc with the first-oppressed - can and should oppress a fourth group of people... to get some sort of cosmic balance?

Even though those now oppressed did not, personally, oppress those first oppressed?

:facepalm:

I am saying that for a long time, one particular class was oppressed to the extent that as an entire class they were left pretty much destitute. Thier entire futures and lives were cut down by having pretty much no tax spent on them at all, and the majority of it spent on the whites.


There was no public funding for black scolarships, bursaries, schooling, infrastructure in black suburbs, etc. Also, job reservation for whites in government run companies like the railways, busses etc (not sure if this was actually a good thing for whites though). While owning and running comanies was not banned for blacks (I think), there were also huge social obstacles (no mixing socially, no living in white areas) that made life extremely difficult for black people to compete on an equal footing.


The whites came out of it being mostly educated, and moderate to wealthy, and the blacks mostly poor and uneducated and destitute. The new government has (understandably) irate black voters who want a redress in the past imbalances, and a chance to get ahead, or at least draw equal. The government figures (probably rightly) that whites can now fend for themselves, and is pretty much spending all it can on blacks (or stashing it for themselves). I have no issue with this. Get the blacks up to speed education wise and infrastructure wise. The whites CAN in fact fend for ourselves for a while. Mummy and daddy can buy their kids sports goods, and send them to decent schools. And pay private medical aid. They mostly have had decent skilled jobs with decent pay.

But I believe that it should stop there.

When competing in the job market (or in sport), it should be the best person for the job that gets hired. Its the law of the jungle. International companies dont care how many black top management members there are, and the All Blacks dont care how many black props you have - they will kick your ass if you are weak. Hindering companies by insisting on black proportionality (where there are just not enough qualified black people) is going to mean companies going under and ultimately less jobs for all.

The SA government is going a step too far, and that's why I left. Job reservation was making me unemployable. I will not have my career (which my family and I still had to work and study hard for, and pay for) and my family's financial wellbeing sunk by these policies. These policies WILL lead to ruin if they have not already.


It will take decades to redress. Although Apartheid itself was only about 30 years officially, and teh new government has been in since 1992.

[R-Soul]

Sorry guys- hijacking the thread a bit (athough its relevant by comparison with the NZ situation).

[RDJ]

I am saying that for a long time, one particular class was oppressed to the extent that as an entire class they were left pretty much destitute. Thier entire futures and lives were cut down by having pretty much no tax spent on them at all, and the majority of it spent on the whites.

<>

It will take decades to redress. Although Apartheid itself was only about 30 years officially, and teh new government has been in since 1992.

Yes, all of the oppression during the apartheid years stipulated. I was waiting for a cogent argument for oppressing the next generation for the sins of (some of) their fathers and mothers...

[R-Soul]

Yes, all of the oppression during the apartheid years stipulated. I was waiting for a cogent argument for oppressing the next generation for the sins of (some of) their fathers and mothers...

Seriously? You want logic in politics? :facepalm:

Which part of "irate voters" didn't you get?

TBH if I was a black person and I had seen my family left destitute due to damn nasty practices by a previous government, I would probably be on the frontline chucking stones if the past was not addressed to give us as much of a chance as the whites had before. I get it.

There has to be preferential opportunituies afforded to the previously disadvantaged to build the black middle class, and make SA stronger economically. Money must be spent on electrical and sewage and schooling and roads where there was none before because the slum townships were "unofficial" and "not permanent" (Tui anybody?) and they were all expected to be "repatriated" back to their designated "homelands". Already as it is, there is massive unrest about "lack of service delivery" - riots breaking out, etc. Its a timebomb.

Fact is that SA whites can expect to fend for themselves for a decade or three (maybe longer, maybe forever a la Zimbabwe) while that happens. End of. If they choose to hang around while they and their kids dont get the same opptunities as the black one. I can see arguments from both sides right now. I chose not to hang around. Luckily my previously advantage background allowed me the skills to be marketable internationally.

[RDJ]

Seriously? You want logic in politics? :facepalm:



No, I was seeking logic in your argument...

[BoristheBiter]

NZ Maori rugby team have beaten all above mentioned as well as Ireland, Barbarians, Tonga, Samoa, Scotland, Wales except South Africa.

Not to mention NZ Maori in league tied with England recently, when the majority of Maori were playing in the Kiwis squad

*Some names from Kiwis Squad for 4nations plus train on, many were also still present when we won the world cup against Aussie.
Adam Blair - Maori
Greg Eastwood Maori
Lance Hohaia Maori
Lewis Brown Maori
Issac Luke Maori
Shaun Kenny Dowell Maori
Warea Haragreaves Maori
Frank Pritchard Cook Is Maori
Benji Marshall Maori
Jason Nightingale Maori
Sam Perret Maori
And then there's the islanders like the Beast Vatuvei and Junior Sau.


I'm not saying you can only win games if you're Maori but that the perfect combination of Maori, Polynesian, Pakeha makes us as a nation so successful at sport. And that we do make a big contribution to NZ's sporting industry. A country of only a few million ahead of the world in Netball, Rugby, Rugby League and many others its something special.

Peace, love.

So what is your point?
It is a race based team so under the UN human rights agreement it should be stopped, whether it is the best team or not, and whether a white only team was good or not it would never get off the ground as it would be labeled racist.
Again not that i care as i like to see a good game of rugby no matter who's playing.

All this talk of we, us, them just divides all of us up even further and should stop. yes there are dickheads on both sides of the camp but most of us just get along with life and not really care what some stupid radicals (on either side) are ranting about today.
The problem is these wankers get air time.

[BoristheBiter]

Seriously? You want logic in politics? :facepalm:

Which part of "irate voters" didn't you get?

TBH if I was a black person and I had seen my family left destitute due to damn nasty practices by a previous government, I would probably be on the frontline chucking stones if the past was not addressed to give us as much of a chance as the whites had before. I get it.

There has to be preferential opportunituies afforded to the previously disadvantaged to build the black middle class, and make SA stronger economically. Money must be spent on electrical and sewage and schooling and roads where there was none before because the slum townships were "unofficial" and "not permanent" (Tui anybody?) and they were all expected to be "repatriated" back to their designated "homelands". Already as it is, there is massive unrest about "lack of service delivery" - riots breaking out, etc. Its a timebomb.

Fact is that SA whites can expect to fend for themselves for a decade or three (maybe longer, maybe forever a la Zimbabwe) while that happens. End of. If they choose to hang around while they and their kids dont get the same opptunities as the black one. I can see arguments from both sides right now. I chose not to hang around. Luckily my previously advantage background allowed me the skills to be marketable internationally.

Isn't there also discrimination between the blacks and coloured's?

[avgas]

Hmmmmm....in what way do you mean that..........:love:.....:shutup:
Araldite and stop feeding them.......
Only shit comes out of them anyway :blink:

[R-Soul]

No, I was seeking logic in your argument...

I guess its the same logic that says that todays NZ taxpayers should pay for sins of their fathers visited on the Maoris of the 1800's? A sense of general fairness that past practices have resulted in hardships on entire peoples?

[R-Soul]

Isn't there also discrimination between the blacks and coloured's?

The poor coloureds- they have strong Afrikaner roots (being direct descendants from the San peoples and the Dutch from the earliest settlers at the Cape in the 1600's). at teh time, they were being gradually squeezed off their lands towards Cape Town by stronger bigger Nguni black tribes moving southwardly from the Equator, and were in conflict with them. Then the Dutch settlers arrived and intermarried etc, and started expanding northwards, shooting it out with the Nguni tribes as the moved inland.

But the Apartheid government didn't give them "white" status (despite them having such strong roots). They had always regarded themselves as being Afrikaans, this being their language, etc. But due to their skin colour, they got it in the neck from the Apartheid government.

Now the ANC is in, their policies related to all "previously disadvantaged" people, including Indians and Coloureds, although it appears that it is a bit grudgingly. At least in rugby, the ANC has stated that it wants to see more "ethnic" blacks in top positions in the adminstrations and teams. So the Coloureds just cant seem to win.

The Coloureds have shown open resistance to ethnic black rule, trusting them (and their perceived corruption) even less than the liberal whites. Cape Town and surrounds is the one province out of 9 where the opposition parties govern.

This all seems a bit stupid, since there are no really clear lines between the races, since coloureds, blacks, and Indians (and whites to a lesser extent) had been intermarrying and blurring most distinctions over the centuries anyway. Hell, even some dark Italians, Greeks and Portuguese were regarded by Cape Coloureds by the Apartheid government. As I say, there is no absolute scientific test that can clearly demarcate one group from the other.

[admenk]

The thing is, these issues are faced and have been faced by most countries at some stage or other. Most groups/countries/races - call them what you will, have at times been the oppressed and at other times were the oppressor. The sad truth about people is that usually the strongest group win and get to write their version of history about it. It may not be just or fair but I suspect it's human nature. No wonder we all disagree, just look at all the possible causes for disagreement:

1/ firstly you have to decide whether or not there has actually been an injustice done. Your opinion will depend greatly on all sorts of things, like your upbringing, your beliefs of what's right and wrong, whether you are directly connected to the events....and a shed load of other influences. And of course, can we apply our 21st century values to people who thought very differently to us.

2/ Assuming you can agree that something wrong was done, the next question is should you seek to redress that injustice now? As for the first question, there's a million and one differing opinions, ranging from "it happened years ago so let's forget it and move on", to "the injustices are still affecting people now so let's sort them out"

3/ Once again, assuming you can reach any agreement on that, then what do you actually do about it? Is there a time after which injustices can be written off, or are they always relevant? And how do you seek to redress the balance towards one group, without taking from another? Is it right that people who weren't born when these problems happened, have to pay for them - or on the other side of the coin, have to live with the consequences of past wrongs.

As this thread shows, everyone has a different take on the whole issue. There are always some extremists at each end of the scale, but most people will fall somewhere between the two.

At least those people actively involved on all sides in the whole Maori / Pakeha / Treaty debate are saying their piece, for their own cause without violence, and whilst many of them may talk twaddle a lot of the time, at least they're having a go.

I for one, wouldn't claim to know the answers. All I can say is that as I get older, I realise that some of the things that I once thought were black and white (and I'm not talking skin colour here), turn out to be not that simple!

Feel free to tell me I'm talking crap, it's just my opinion :innocent:

[SMOKEU]

The poor coloureds- they have strong Afrikaner roots (being direct descendants from the San peoples and the Dutch from the earliest settlers at the Cape in the 1600's). at teh time, they were being gradually squeezed off their lands towards Cape Town by stronger bigger Nguni black tribes moving southwardly from the Equator, and were in conflict with them. Then the Dutch settlers arrived and intermarried etc, and started expanding northwards, shooting it out with the Nguni tribes as the moved inland.

But the Apartheid government didn't give them "white" status (despite them having such strong roots). They had always regarded themselves as being Afrikaans, this being their language, etc. But due to their skin colour, they got it in the neck from the Apartheid government.

Now the ANC is in, their policies related to all "previously disadvantaged" people, including Indians and Coloureds, although it appears that it is a bit grudgingly. At least in rugby, the ANC has stated that it wants to see more "ethnic" blacks in top positions in the adminstrations and teams. So the Coloureds just cant seem to win.

The Coloureds have shown open resistance to ethnic black rule, trusting them (and their perceived corruption) even less than the liberal whites. Cape Town and surrounds is the one province out of 9 where the opposition parties govern.

This all seems a bit stupid, since there are no really clear lines between the races, since coloureds, blacks, and Indians (and whites to a lesser extent) had been intermarrying and blurring most distinctions over the centuries anyway. Hell, even some dark Italians, Greeks and Portuguese were regarded by Cape Coloureds by the Apartheid government. As I say, there is no absolute scientific test that can clearly demarcate one group from the other.

Once you give blacks power over a country, then they WILL phuck it up. Look what happened when the blacks came to power in South Africa.

[Hans]

Once you give blacks power over a country, then they WILL phuck it up. Look what happened when the blacks came to power in South Africa.

They haven't "phucked" it... They're just redressing past injustices :innocent:

In Zimbabwe they are just redressing these issues more thoroughly with the aid of famine, tyres, petrol and rubber hoses.

And yes, R-soul, I can see how New Zealand would be the promised land. With the opinions you hold there will be career opportunities aplenty. Especiall with the govt. Nothing like toeing the Party line, a?

[Hans]

Incidentally Rob Mugabe and Tame Iti are both proponents of Maoism (China's version of Stalinism). Mugabe has massive support from China and Iti spent time in China as a member of the Communist Party during the cultural revolution.

Both lovely people no doubt.

[admenk]

Once you give blacks power over a country, then they WILL phuck it up.

I hate to shatter your illusions, but you don't need to be black to do that..

[Hans]

I hate to shatter your illusions, but you don't need to be black to do that..

Aaah. But it is the blacks doing it. Which makes your assertion irrelevant.

[admenk]

Aaah. But it is the blacks doing it. Which makes your assertion irrelevant.

:argh: It's a secret black world conspiracy !

[Hans]

:argh: It's a secret black world conspiracy !


Right. When you can't argue with the facts you attempt to ridicule the person who is presenting them. Try harder. Or smarter.

[admenk]

Right. When you can't argue with the facts you attempt to ridicule the person who is presenting them. Try harder. Or smarter.

It's a fair cop guv, you got me bang to rights :yes:

[SMOKEU]

Give me one example of a country with a black majority which is not a third world country, and which is a safe country where everyone gets basic human rights.

[jaffamont]

Give me one example of a country with a black majority which is not a third world country, and which is a safe country where everyone gets basic human rights.

Probably most of them until western culture arrived and taught them that without computers, expensive clothes, coca cola and fried food, your fresh air, pristine oceans full of fish, and lush fertile land mean very little.

I agree the above is flawed on many levels, however i think it has an "element" of truth.

[SMOKEU]

Probably most of them until western culture arrived and taught them that without computers, expensive clothes, coca cola and fried food, your fresh air, pristine oceans full of fish, and lush fertile land mean very little.

I agree the above is flawed on many levels, however i think it has an "element" of truth.

Well all of Africa is phucked. The middle east is quite bad as well, with the influence of Islam.

Black people can't get together in parliament and work for a good, common cause. They all have their own agendas, and their greed means nothing good gets achieved.

[idleidolidyll]

Hell yes! I'm sick of all the Waitangi bullshit.

I advocate returning all disputed land immedietly to any and all Maori who claim it:

At least that way National won't be able to sell it all to foreigners and foreign corporations

[idleidolidyll]

Well all of Africa is phucked. The middle east is quite bad as well, with the influence of Islam.

Black people can't get together in parliament and work for a good, common cause. They all have their own agendas, and their greed means nothing good gets achieved.

Hell yes! Sounds just like xtians, jews, hindus too and also like white people and the shams they call democracy

[Gezza]

John Key won't give us a public holiday for it...Maybe he's right. What's there to celebrate!!!

[jaffamont]

Well all of Africa is phucked. The middle east is quite bad as well, with the influence of Islam.

Black people can't get together in parliament and work for a good, common cause. They all have their own agendas, and their greed means nothing good gets achieved.

Pretty sure greed is a global phenomonon, maybe even a basic human instinct? Get used to powerful governments of colour, for it is they who are holding most of the aces these days. We are simply feeding the machine everytime we by some five dollar piece of shit from bunnings and the like....

[admenk]

Give me one example of a country with a black majority which is not a third world country, and which is a safe country where everyone gets basic human rights.

I did have a nice long reply for you and then my PC went and shut down and I lost it.

Anyway, the jist of it was there wasn'nt many as you implied, but places like Barbados, Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago are on the United Nations higher lists of Human Development, so I think they would count.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

Whether you can blame a country's wealth and human rights record on their colour is very much open to debate (or your trolling !!). We're back to history and opportunities again! There's plenty of countries of all colour shades that have low income and poor human rights.

It willbe interesting to see what happens in the next few decades - only time will tell I guess

[Dean]

So what is your point?
It is a race based team so under the UN human rights agreement it should be stopped, whether it is the best team or not, and whether a white only team was good or not it would never get off the ground as it would be labeled racist.
Again not that i care as i like to see a good game of rugby no matter who's playing.

All this talk of we, us, them just divides all of us up even further and should stop. yes there are dickheads on both sides of the camp but most of us just get along with life and not really care what some stupid radicals (on either side) are ranting about today.
The problem is these wankers get air time.

Sorry I didn't explain further.

Just the idea...creating a 'white only' team would divide New Zealand in two. That's giving New Zealand a choice White or Maori a fence between us and I dread this to ever happen because I love Pakeha and my Pakeha team mates. This would totally degrade New Zealand's potential in sport because we all work so well together, we are the perfect combination.

Just the idea...

On a similar note alot of us young Maori are stepping up the game in Education. Last year at my college alot of Maori recieved Sport Scholarships and awards including myself along with Excellence awards.

[admenk]

Sorry I didn't explain further.

Just the idea...creating a 'white only' team would divide New Zealand in two. That's giving New Zealand a choice White or Maori a fence between us and I dread this to ever happen because I love Pakeha and my Pakeha team mates. This would totally degrade New Zealand's potential in sport because we all work so well together, we are the perfect combination.

.

So just as a matter of interest, if there can be a NZ Maori team (and I don't mind either way, me being a proper foreigner!) why not a NZ Pakeha team (and yes, they might well be rubbish). Then presumably the best of both would get picked for the NZ national team.

[Indiana_Jones]

While we're at it, can we have the 'NZ-wobbly top' team, the 'NZ Slope head' team, the 'NZ Nig nog' team.....

-Indy

[admenk]

While we're at it, can we have the 'NZ-wobbly top' team

Aren't they called the Silver Ferns ? :innocent:

[Indiana_Jones]

Aren't they called the Silver Ferns ? :innocent:

If you move your eyes just a little higher.... lol

-Indy

[BoristheBiter]

Sorry I didn't explain further.

Just the idea...creating a 'white only' team would divide New Zealand in two. That's giving New Zealand a choice White or Maori a fence between us and I dread this to ever happen because I love Pakeha and my Pakeha team mates. This would totally degrade New Zealand's potential in sport because we all work so well together, we are the perfect combination.

Just the idea...

On a similar note alot of us young Maori are stepping up the game in Education. Last year at my college alot of Maori recieved Sport Scholarships and awards including myself along with Excellence awards.

This is the main problem. Most people i know don't care if there is a Maori team, like i said i like a good game of footy, we don't care if it is race based, it is not dividing the country.
Now install a nz white team and hear the cries of racism from the Maori side.
Why??
I don't really know, maybe we have a higher self esteem, maybe we are happy to watch a game of footy with anyone, maybe Maori think they deserve the right to be racist, maybe most don't give a shit, but the only devision would come from the Maori side and that has been proven time and time again.

In most country's the white power crap is not given the light of day as we see it for what its worth and if it does come up it is ridiculed for the crap it is, just look at the reply's to SmokeU, can the same be said for Maori? I think yes in the most part but there is still a lot that sit back and just try trolling to get their faces in the spotlight, Hone is the best example. Now hear anything long enough and it will become the truth.

I say good on you for receiving Scholarships and awards but that just sounds like colonial patronization, of course you can achieve anything you put your mind to and the only thing holding you back is yourself, but if you have no role models or the only ones you see blame it all on somebody else what else would you do?

Your leaders have Maori so far stuck it the welfare trap and are quite happy to see you stay there as if you got on and succeeded it would prove them wrong and they would have to find some other BS to rant on about.
And how small does it make your people feel when your leaders say the only way you can succeeded is if you get more hand outs?

[imdying]

The official stuff is a minor problem; there's is no concern about Maori rugby teams...w e still have them by the nuts in any case. We don't hire Maoris. We don't befriend Maoris. We don't walk on the same side of the road as them. We ensure they live grouped together in lower class areas. We shop in supermarkets they can't afford. A racist national rugby team they might have, but where it counts, the Maori have nothing.

[avgas]

At least that way National won't be able to sell it all to foreigners and foreign corporations
I suggest you google where the Maori's are selling it......

[SMOKEU]

In most country's the white power crap is not given the light of day as we see it for what its worth and if it does come up it is ridiculed for the crap it is,


Check out Stormfront then.

[avgas]

If white stig fought black stig who would win?

[Delerium]

If white stig fought black stig who would win?

Neither, they would combine like captain planet and form chessboard stig.

[BoristheBiter]

Check out Stormfront then.

Why? just a bunch of redneck hillbilly whiteys thinking they are better because of their skin colour.

Wouldn't waste my bandwidth.

[SMOKEU]

If white stig fought black stig who would win?

White stig!

[R-Soul]

Once you give blacks power over a country, then they WILL phuck it up. Look what happened when the blacks came to power in South Africa.

What happened was that the ANC government presided over the longest period of economic prosperity in 30 years. Of course, it had a lot to do with the removal of economic boycotts too.

And at the same time the pucblic heath system and police seems to have gone downwards. Although some will say that they weren't particularly good to start off with (at least not for the blacks). Some way it is just an evening out of teh services, spreading the service over the entire population. Who knows?

[steve_t]

I see Hone Harawira just got the axe from the Maori Party

[admenk]

I see Hone Harawira just got the axe from the Maori Party

My heart bleeds for him :innocent:

[R-Soul]

Aaah. But it is the blacks doing it. Which makes your assertion irrelevant.

They have not "phucked" up all of the countries they have presided over. Generally only those ones where European colonial powers have left on a hurry when the reviolution came after years of oppression and treating the blacks like second class citizens in their own countries- leaving a power vacuum (eg Mozambique, Angola, Algeria, Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, Zambia, DR Congo (ex Zaire), ) or those ones where blacks have had to battle (literally in civil wars) for years with European and white oppressors (Zimbabwe), leaving a power vacuum afterwards.


The rest have been pretty peaceful. Tanzania, Kenya, Botswana, Malawi, Madagascar, etc.

Maybe not as corruption free as some would like. But then again, neither are a lot of South American countries.

[R-Soul]

And yes, R-soul, I can see how New Zealand would be the promised land. With the opinions you hold there will be career opportunities aplenty. Especiall with the govt. Nothing like toeing the Party line, a?

Its called empathy, and having the imagination to imagine yourself into another persons situation. If more people had it, there'd be less phuckups in the first place.

You should try it sometime.

[R-Soul]

This is the main problem. Most people i know don't care if there is a Maori team, like i said i like a good game of footy, we don't care if it is race based, it is not dividing the country.
Now install a nz white team and hear the cries of racism from the Maori side.
Why??
I don't really know, maybe we have a higher self esteem, maybe we are happy to watch a game of footy with anyone, maybe Maori think they deserve the right to be racist, maybe most don't give a shit, but the only devision would come from the Maori side and that has been proven time and time again.

In most country's the white power crap is not given the light of day as we see it for what its worth and if it does come up it is ridiculed for the crap it is, just look at the reply's to SmokeU, can the same be said for Maori? I think yes in the most part but there is still a lot that sit back and just try trolling to get their faces in the spotlight, Hone is the best example. Now hear anything long enough and it will become the truth.

I say good on you for receiving Scholarships and awards but that just sounds like colonial patronization, of course you can achieve anything you put your mind to and the only thing holding you back is yourself, but if you have no role models or the only ones you see blame it all on somebody else what else would you do?

Your leaders have Maori so far stuck it the welfare trap and are quite happy to see you stay there as if you got on and succeeded it would prove them wrong and they would have to find some other BS to rant on about.
And how small does it make your people feel when your leaders say the only way you can succeeded is if you get more hand outs?

When you thnk about it- it SUITS Maori leaders to have their people stuck in the welfare traps, and struggling, and as uneducated as possible. That way, when they tell these people that its all about the money, and deflect teh reasons for their predicament onto the white opppressors, they dont know any better, and put their faith (and their votes) in their "leaders" to get them out of it by claiming more handouts. The leaders know that the handouts wont make a jot of difference (if it actually gets to their people anyway) because money wont fix it.

If the Maori people had the same attitude as the rest of society (on average), they would not feel the need (or the sense) to vote for a party based on their ethnicity - more to vote for parties based on their economic programs and tax proposals. Those Maori leaders would lose their influence and payouts and government expense accounts.

I dont see Asians voting for Asian parties, or Saffas voting for Saffa parties. Because everybody is different within those people. No one party can represent them.

But by keeping many Maori people in the poverty trap, they can colllectively have "Maori issues". What bullshit - what they have is leadership issues.

[Dean]

So just as a matter of interest, if there can be a NZ Maori team (and I don't mind either way, me being a proper foreigner!) why not a NZ Pakeha team (and yes, they might well be rubbish). Then presumably the best of both would get picked for the NZ national team.

I will fully endorse and support a nz English only team or a nz Scottish team, but making a team based on the colour of your skin? Not really my cup of tea, we dont call the NZ Maori 'the brown race' or only accept brown/black people. I dont think only Maori will find it racist....

The Pakeha that have founded New Zealand are all different races ie Scottish, Yugoslavian, English, French and etc. Personally I dont think theres enough consistency to call Pakeha English. The only consistency is there skin colour hence why racist.


Maybe its just me but I like to see myself as a Maori instead of part of the 'brown race', or maybe im not following correctly and I apologise in advance.

[Dean]

I say good on you for receiving Scholarships and awards but that just sounds like colonial patronization, of course you can achieve anything you put your mind to and the only thing holding you back is yourself, but if you have no role models or the only ones you see blame it all on somebody else what else would you do?

Your leaders have Maori so far stuck it the welfare trap and are quite happy to see you stay there as if you got on and succeeded it would prove them wrong and they would have to find some other BS to rant on about.
And how small does it make your people feel when your leaders say the only way you can succeeded is if you get more hand outs?
They are not my leaders I hate people like Hone Harawira. Unfortunately alot of people on here think most Maori follow leaders like him when even Maori tv wouldnt be present at last Waitangi because of the charging media.

I would like to claim we dont need any more handouts but Ive been brought up with two white parents in a rather upperclass suburban lifestyle. I do know there are Maori kids out there in a solid state of poverty but they wont have the chance to defend their case on here (obviously).

[BoristheBiter]

They are not my leaders I hate people like Hone Harawira. Unfortunately alot of people on here think most Maori follow leaders like him when even Maori tv wouldnt be present at last Waitangi because of the charging media.

I would like to claim we dont need any more handouts but Ive been brought up with two white parents in a rather upperclass suburban lifestyle. I do know there are Maori kids out there in a solid state of poverty but they wont have the chance to defend their case on here (obviously).

And that is the point in the end.
I work with a few other Maori that like you have just got out and did what was needed to get a head, some of them are staunch and some can't even speak Maori.

People like Hone are just divisive and play on the fears on both sides and the sooner him and his like disappear the better we all will be.
I started my early years in Kawerau and there was never any of this us, we, them, BS, it was all community, whether is was because everyone worked at the mill or not and i don't know what it's like now, but then it was for the best of the community.

We are New Zealanders, what our culture's are means very little when in the end of the day except to ourselves and we are too small a country to make this into the mountain it has become.

Do i have the answer? i wish i did, but schooling is free in NZ and everyone have the same opportunity's as everyone else, the only thing i see as the problem, and this is the same whether you are black, white or green with blue spots, is how you are encouraged at home.

[Kickaha]

Check out Stormfront then.

Anytime I need a good laugh I have a look at it what a bunch of retards, you'd fit right in

[scott411]

And that is the point in the end.
I work with a few other Maori that like you have just got out and did what was needed to get a head, some of them are staunch and some can't even speak Maori.

People like Hone are just divisive and play on the fears on both sides and the sooner him and his like disappear the better we all will be.
I started my early years in Kawerau and there was never any of this us, we, them, BS, it was all community, whether is was because everyone worked at the mill or not and i don't know what it's like now, but then it was for the best of the community.

We are New Zealanders, what our culture's are means very little when in the end of the day except to ourselves and we are too small a country to make this into the mountain it has become.

Do i have the answer? i wish i did, but schooling is free in NZ and everyone have the same opportunity's as everyone else, the only thing i see as the problem, and this is the same whether you are black, white or green with blue spots, is how you are encouraged at home.

x 2 to this, awesome post,

you go to any small town, or any rugby club. or any drinking establishment in the country and you will see races getting on fine, if you take the extremes from both sides, (the Harawera's on one side, and the national front on the other) and things look bad,

[oldrider]

x 2 to this, awesome post,

you go to any small town, or any rugby club. or any drinking establishment in the country and you will see races getting on fine, if you take the extremes from both sides, (the Harawera's on one side, and the national front on the other) and things look bad,

Correct .... but you missed out the most devious ingredient in that mix ... the bloody media that continually inflame those two extremes at "our expense" and all because they (the media) have nothing else sensational to report!

The media won't go away, it is their collective rice bowl, it's what they do!

[scott411]

agree 100%, i think the media drive for the latest sensation to sell papers is getting worse every year, balanced reporting has given into sensation reporting,

[oneofsix]

Correct .... but you missed out the most devious ingredient in that mix ... the bloody media that continually inflame those two extremes at "our expense" and all because they (the media) have nothing else sensational to report!

The media won't go away, it is their collective rice bowl, it's what they do!

We make the news, we don't report the news :shutup:
True once they have something to stir but they didn't invent the Waitangi BS, they just stir it along.
I come from a small town where there weren't enough brown skins to make an under class so it had to be whites. Difference is whities can't claim treaty treats so knew the only way up was by their own boot straps. To the extent where i remember one person discovering enough maori in their blood to get a preferencial place at uni and considering it cheating if they couldn't do it on their own merit.
The maori were held back, they now have equal opportunity to better themselves and many do and have done better than a lot of other NZers.

[R-Soul]

They are not my leaders I hate people like Hone Harawira. Unfortunately alot of people on here think most Maori follow leaders like him when even Maori tv wouldnt be present at last Waitangi because of the charging media.

I would like to claim we dont need any more handouts but Ive been brought up with two white parents in a rather upperclass suburban lifestyle. I do know there are Maori kids out there in a solid state of poverty but they wont have the chance to defend their case on here (obviously).

ther are a lot of New Zealanders in general that live in poverty - not just Maori. The idea that there are those clamouring for preferential treatment because of their ethnicity is just wrong. I am not say ing that we should not all be doing our bit and paying taxes and paying for them to be elevated in status. I am just saying that we - and the government- should be doing our bit equally for everyone - as equals in a single nation.

Sure,-reverse the past injustices where they were real racist injustices - but then it ends and we get on as equals. Not equals and Maori.

[R-Soul]

the only thing i see as the problem, and this is the same whether you are black, white or green with blue spots, is how you are encouraged at home.

... and the general attitude of the role models around those kids.

[R-Soul]

At teh end of teh day there will be some from all cultures - Maori, Asian, Pakeha, Saffas- that have bad attitudes, and who will still do nothing for themselves despite being given all the opportunity in the world.

These types should not be encouraged by handouts or pity - they should be scorned and ridiculed until they get their act together. the only thing that they should be given is opportunity to help themselves.

I was amazed in London. I had come from a country where there just weren't any jobs. and begging was very common because of it - and it was not becasue there was lack of effort on the part of the beggars.

In London, there were jobs posted on every other corner, and yet there were still beggars. I kept quiet about it , wondering that perhaps the people begging ahd special circumstances. But the one Kiwi mate of mine pretty much said it all when we walked past a beggar, who asked us for coin, and he said "Get a fuckin' job mate". The same thing applies here.

[avgas]

"Get a fuckin' job mate". The same thing applies here.
There are actually studies that state those without Jobs, generally will never achieve anything due to lack of purpose.
If we made it non-PC for beggars......they would become restricted like smoking.

But for that to happen you would have to get rid of benefits first.

I personally think that people need jobs before any of this happens. However I know of one city in NZ that will need a few thousand people with brooms and shovels right now. Why doesn't NZ govt conscript the unemployed to work?

[R-Soul]

There are actually studies that state those without Jobs, generally will never achieve anything due to lack of purpose.
If we made it non-PC for beggars......they would become restricted like smoking.

But for that to happen you would have to get rid of benefits first.

I personally think that people need jobs before any of this happens. However I know of one city in NZ that will need a few thousand people with brooms and shovels right now. Why doesn't NZ govt conscript the unemployed to work?

brooms and shovels? more like cranes and dozers... poor buggers..

[Banditbandit]

However I know of one city in NZ that will need a few thousand people with brooms and shovels right now. Why doesn't NZ govt conscript the unemployed to work?

This young man gets a job in a factory. On his first day he turns up in his new suit and tie. The boss takes him to the back of the factory, hands him a broom and says; "Start sweeping."

The young man is horrified. He turns to the boss and says; "Don't you realise I've just spent four years at University. I have a Bachelor of Business Studies with first class honours?"

"Oh, I'm terribly sorry." replies the boss. "Here." He takes the broom from the young man's hand and makes sweepinmg motions. "You use this tool this way!"

[oldrider]

Anyone notice that the earthquake in Christchurch was quite universal, it shook the shit out of everyone!

One one country, one people, one fucking earthquake!

Is mother nature trying to tell us something here? :love: your neighbour!

There is plenty of good spirit being shown in the aftermath anyway, makes me proud to be a New Zealander. :yes:

[jaffamont]

Anyone notice that the earthquake in Christchurch was quite universal, it shook the shit out of everyone!

One one country, one people, one fucking earthquake!

Is mother nature trying to tell us something here? :love: your neighbour!

There is plenty of good spirit being shown in the aftermath anyway, makes me proud to be a New Zealander. :yes:

+1 to that good sir. All those people, from all around the world, risking their lives to save unknown strangers makes me very proud. Just goes to show that at the end of the day we are all just sisters and brothers from different mothers.

[Swoop]

All those people, from all around the world, risking their lives to save unknown strangers...
Very true. It was pleasant to hear the Taiwanese commenting that [paraphrasing] "kiwi's had helped their country in previous disasters and it was time to return the compliment".
Nice to have them here.:yes: