"Loud Pipes Save Lives"

[Wolf]

I found this rather interesting article (http://www.virginiawind.com/byways/loud_pipes_save_lives.asp).

Who here has an opinion on the subject - either pro or con (and how many of those "pro" sell aftermarket exhaust systems :devil2: )

[NC]

I found this rather interesting article (http://www.virginiawind.com/byways/loud_pipes_save_lives.asp).

Who here has an opinion on the subject - either pro or con (and how many of those "pro" sell aftermarket exhaust systems :devil2: )
I don't think my bike is that loud, I just think people have very sensitive hearing :whistle:

Seriously, it does help when filtering.

[Biff]

I've been telling Ms Biff this for ages. But she wont believe me.

Several people have commented on how quiet the Blackbird is, so I'm glad you posted this Wolf. More ammunittion for me to justify buying a set of pipes to 'she that holds the purse strings', should the poll swings the right way that is.

[crazylittleshit]

I don't think my bike is that loud, I just think people have very sensitive hearing :whistle:

Seriously, it does help when filtering.
Your bike is Loud trust me :yes:
But remeber this is a good thing :love:

[placidfemme]

Loud pipes do help when filtering... the cars move over because they can hear you coming... I'm not sure if my pipe is "overly" loud but it does it's job :)

*loves after market pipes*

[White trash]

I've been told my bike is Farken loud when "on the pipe" however I don't know if it saves lives. I just like scaring the shit outta people when I come past 100kph faster. :devil2:

[vifferman]

I think that anything that turns the general public off bike riders can't be a good thing, unless you want to promulgate the "rebel biker' image.

Some other points: Some people point out that the noise from loud pipes doesn't travel forward very well, defeating the purpose of them as a 'safety measure'. I had a guy on a loud VTR1000 following me, and I could hear him very well! However, I've often been surprised by some loud bike suddenly appearing alongside me when in the car, as I hadn't hear him approaching, especially if the radio was on. Then the sudden unexpected loud noise startled and irritated me, and was definitely not conducive to road safety.

I don't mind loudish bikes (or sporty-sounding cars), if they sound 'tuneful', and have decent aftermarket pipes that aren't too loud. However, VERY loud bikes (or other vehicles) just piss me off, especially if it's just NOISE, like drag pipes on a Harley.

My zorst is louder than stock, and louder than when I bought it. However, I very rarely resort to "Evil Mode" (no restrictor) as it attracts too much attention (making me nervous), makes me ride aggressively, and gets on my nerves after a while.

[Hitcher]

At some stage the STeed will lose the Toblerones and get something a little louder. For no other reason than to hide the cam-chain whine.

[TwoSeven]

Its swings and roundabouts for me really.

When I am seriously working the traffic I really dont want a loud pipe at all. In fact, i'd prefer it if the punters were dozy sods that didnt look in their mirrors and were half asleep. It means I can work round them without them trying to do extra dozy things out of some misinformed politness.

On the other hand, sometimes when i'm just messn round with the traffic a slightly louder pipes does tend to make the stupid pedestrian walking out behind the bus actually take a look first (even tho i'm in the habbit of looking for em). You also notice car drivers tend to look in their mirrors. I suspect this is what people mean by loud pipe. Its the road legal race kind that only go up to about 104dB.

My fave game with those is to pick up a copper in built up multi-lane traffic and on a closed throttle (stealth mode) flick the bike in behind using their blind spot, then pull up along side the drivers side door (just back so they have to look over their shoulder). Then rev the living tits off the bike (you have to make sure that you are just in the right side lane when you do it). Nine times out of ten you'll see them bounce of the ceiling of the car.

The last pipe I had was a full on race pipe - all 140dB of it. Used to make my ears bleed if I didnt have plugs in. That style while sounding nice really does piss folks off - I used to only have it on the bike every now and again. Problem is drivers can hear it, but cant see it - so they start doing silly moves for something that aint where they think it is.

[placidfemme]

Is there any way to check how many dB your pipe is? Or do you need to take it into a bike shop to find out?

[Ixion]

Probably at least partly true I think.

But I don't like really loud exhausts, they get very tiring on long trips. Two strokes especially are very hard on the nerves if they are too loud.

On the other hand, the bark of a big single on the mega - sigh :love: :love:

As reagrds the safety thing I think the biggest factor is one that is hardly ever mentioned.

They make people think you are going faster than they would otherwise.

Most people are very poor at judging any sort of vehicle's speed, and especially bikes.

So they assume that vehicles are doing the sort of speed THEY would in the same circumstances - which often means "slow slow slow"

So they underestimate how fast the bike is going. This is one of the reasons why an Interchangeable Mabel will see you, and pull out in front of you. Yes, she sees you, but she has no idea how to estimate your speed. So she assumes you're going at the speed she would. And odds are you're going a LOT faster.

Having a loud exhaust makes him think you're going fast 'Ohhh look at the motorbike - I can hear it from here. Isn't it dreadful the way they race around at such ridiculous speeds. I'll just wait until he's gone - goodness he was going fast , I couldn't hear myself think"

[Wolf]

From observation when riding the TS125, the only advance warning my loud pipe provided was to my friends who'd put the jug on - because they recognised the sound and actually cared enough to do something.

Unlike all the bastards on the road, who behaved just as obnoxious and/or oblivious as ever. I was certainly no safer on the TS than I was on the RX125, which was way quieter.

I agree with Neal Stephenson:

" First, a word on motorcycle safety:
If you've put yourself in a position where someone has to see you in order for you to be safe -- to see you, and to give a fuck -- you've already blown it."

It applies to being heard, too.

I'd never put my faith in the idea that the noise of my pipes should be sufficient warning to keep me safe - I've had too many fuckers look straight at me and still do something stupid, to believe they will get out of my way just because they can hear me.

My assumption is always that the other driver/rider has his/her head up his/her arse - I'm often right. And I assume that those who are aware of me and others just don't give a fuck. Those two assumptions cover well over 95% of all road users.

Even if I were riding an electric motorcycle, I'd still be perfectly safe - because it is my vigilance and safe riding techniques that keep me alive, not the vigilance or awareness of other people.

Personally, I cannot tell where a noise is coming from - exhaust or siren - especially in built-up areas where the buildings throw back echoes from all sides.

The "LPSL" argument is a bullshit "justification" for those who lack the integrity to say "I want some really loud pipes because I think they sound cool."

I don't mind loud pipes so long as they sound sweet. That ear-splittng toneless reverberating noise that Wanker Rotary Engines put out - RX-7 with holes in exhaust kind of thing - sounds like shit... I can't stand it. It's the Mazdabator sound. I'd rather have a deep bass thrumming sound that doesn't hurt the ears and cause the fillings in my teeth to vibrate loose.

For my own riding - especially out in the countryside - I like as quiet a bike as possible. That's my thing.

I don't begrudge anyone having loud pipes - unless they sound like a sack o' shit like most Mazdas and a few of the OC's bikes - but I do not buy the line that the pipes are a magical way of making the vehicle "safer" - not even the gods can make a fuckwit alert...

[Anonymous]

Why do you think Ghost rider blips his throtle like he's raping it when he has to split past slow moving trafic. He is reckless but he isn't compleatly stupid. He uses the high beam headlights as a visual safety device for himself and he uses the loud pipe as a hearing (I am sure there is a better word to use here, but you know what I mean) safety device.

[Coldkiwi]

Even if I were riding an electric motorcycle, I'd still be perfectly safe - because it is my vigilance and safe riding techniques that keep me alive, not the vigilance or awareness of other people.



if you beleive that applies in all situations, you need to do some more riding around town more my friend. The stupidity and plain old arrogance of pedestrians around Auckland CBD when faced with a quiet bike is nothing short of staggering on a regular basis (and thats not the cagers).

Besides... how do you then educate stupid pedestrians when they step out and don't see you without a loud exhaust to blast at them when they've walked in front of you? They all appear very alert after you inform them of how close you actually are by using the throttle :)

[Omega1]

Yeah ,I love loud pipes on a Harley

[Lias]

they sound like a sack o' shit like most Mazdas and a few of the OC's bikes

Makes mental note to send a copy of this post to the OC's with yer home address in it :-P

[Big Dave]

I think that anything that turns the general public off bike riders can't be a good thing, unless you want to promulgate the "rebel biker' image.


Promulgate it?!?! - I dine out on it.

[Motu]

At one point I had 2 600cc road bikes - a 61 Norton with all the fruit and usualy running OPEN megaphones,the other bike was a BMW R60/5 with standard pipes,considered very quiet in those days.It was pretty obvious that the car drivers knew I was there on the Norton,even on the motorway you could see their ears swivle back,like a cat y'know and then they checked their mirrors,and I could hear the sigh of relief when I went past...a quick change down of a gear woke up anyone sitting at an intersection.

They never knew I was there on the R60/5,but that's ok,I ride as if they can't see me anyway....yeah,right.One sunday morning coming down the motorway with only one car in sight and my very pregnant wife on the back cruising at 80mph - as we pull up behind a car it just moves out into the outside lane,squeezing us into the concrete barrier,he didn't even see us until we were into front of him.Given the choice I'll have noise anyday...

[Hitcher]

Back when I had my Zrex, on a couple of occasions I noted drivers in cars ahead wind down their windows so they could hear me ride past. Lovely.

[Wolf]

if you beleive that applies in all situations, you need to do some more riding around town more my friend. The stupidity and plain old arrogance of pedestrians around Auckland CBD when faced with a quiet bike is nothing short of staggering on a regular basis (and thats not the cagers).

Besides... how do you then educate stupid pedestrians when they step out and don't see you without a loud exhaust to blast at them when they've walked in front of you? They all appear very alert after you inform them of how close you actually are by using the throttle :)
While pedestrians possibly rely more on sound cues than people in cars (windows up, Fifty Cent blaring thru the Sub in the boot) I still have to disagree - if I don't see the pedestrian in time to avoid him/her, that's my fault.

Of course, I could just be terribly inexperienced - I've only held my 'bike license for 23 years...

As to them hearing me - the horn seems to work wonders (if you ditch the shitty "canned fart" jap horn an put a decent one on) and with an electric bike there would be no engine noise at all to drown out my voice as I "educate" the pedestrian concerned... on road safety and his/her genealogy :devil2:

[wkid_one]

I would assume that, and I know I will be corrected if wrong, most of the noise from a loud pipe is going to come AFTER you have passed the alledged 'inattentive' cage driver. I know my VTR whilst loud from the rear - wasn't too bad from the front unless it had shit to echo off - which is useless as this changes where the sounds is coming from and defeats the purpose of alerting people to my approach - get my point?

I would also say - that in many instances bike riders put themselves in positions where car drivers don't expect them to be (not saying they shouldn't check however). Many car drivers don't really appreciate how quick a bike is, and a cursary glance in the rear view mirror showing a bike a couple of hundred metres behind - that bike could be on the car 2-3-4 times quicker than they would expect. Also - few car drivers expect bikes to lane split (and in my experience, a minority take aggressive offence to it)

Also - many bikers cause their own problems by riding with their lights on full beam - which, when viewed head on or in rear/side view mirrors, distort a persons ability to estimate the speed the vehicle is travelling. So that supposed 'safety' of putting your lights on full beam, as been disproved as a crock of shit: NB: not the technical term the report used, it used - 'marginal if not diminishes safety margin depending on situation' (as well as being illegal if the gatso's were in a bad mood'.

I guess I am saying - that just cause your bike can do something - don't expect car drivers to know it can and react accordingly.

As for CK's comments about pedestrians - I don't think that matters in the CBD whether you are a biker or driver - I encounter the same problem in Wellington in an SUV

[Pwalo]

I like my bike's to be quiet (as much as any bike can be quiet). Cagers can't hear you (a/c means the windows are up, and the stereo's probably on as well), pedestrians don't pay attention anyway most of the time, and it's bloody tiring if you have to travel any distance on a noisy bike.

If you want a loud pipe on your bike that's fine, but I think you should be honest enough to say it's because you like it rather than claim it's a safety feature. Personally I prefer the stealthy approach.

[chickenfunkstar]

Whilst I do give merit to the point that:
"If you've put yourself in a position where someone has to see [hear] you in order for you to be safe -- to see [hear] you, and to give a f**k -- you've already blown it."

There are still some circumstances where you have to put yourself in a certain amount of danger to get where you're going.
When you're passing cars on the motorway, often cars wont bother to look properly whats behind them, they'll just indicate (maybe) and move into your lane. Surley this is a circumstance where a loud exhaust would be a saftey feature.

It also makes overtaking on the open road and lanesplitting a whole lot easier.

Whilst its true that a car will hear most of the noise once you've passed them, they will still hear quite a bit of it when you're behind them.

IMHO anything that makes people more aware of you on the road isn't a bad thing.

[vifferman]

While pedestrians possibly rely more on sound cues than people in cars (windows up, Fifty Cent blaring thru the Sub in the boot) I still have to disagree - if I don't see the pedestrian in time to avoid him/her, that's my fault.

Of course, I could just be terribly inexperienced - I've only held my 'bike license for 23 years...

As to them hearing me - the horn seems to work wonders .
I have experience of this (although I've run over only one pedestrian).
Was it my fault? Legally - no. But with the wisdom of hindsight, I could've prevented it, even if only by leaving 30 seconds later.

I saw the pedestrians. I waited. I proceeded with care.
I tootled my horn melodiously, causing all but one of the pedestrians to retreat to the relative safety of the footlingpath. Now we have one pedestrian to deal with, halfway across the road.
I continue slowlyish, around behind the pedestrian (i.e., the opposite direction to where she was headed). Just as I'm nearly past, she stops (why? did someone call to her, or did she decide belatedly that crossing on a red when the light's turning green is a dumb idea?). I brake, she turns around (away from me - if she'd turned towards me, she'd have been safe), and walks/runs/jumps (can't remember now) into my path. BAM!!
Pedestrian 0, VFR750 1.


Ahhh! Now it clicks! My bike at that time was not loud, although it had very loud hornS.

Luckily, no lives were lost in the making of this (true) story.

[GSVR]

Out in the country on a windy piece of road a loud bike is certainly going to be safer than something that you can't hardly hear until it rounds the corner and you make visual contact.

But noisey bikes or cars around residential streets is dam annoying.

[vifferman]

But noisey bikes or cars around residential streets is dam annoying.
Especially if they're YOUR streets. :yes:
Oddly enough, I don't find my noisy bike quite so annoying in other people's streets. :confused:

[chickenfunkstar]

Out in the country on a windy piece of road a loud bike is certainly going to be safer than something that you can't hardly hear until it rounds the corner and you make visual contact.

But noisey bikes or cars around residential streets is dam annoying.

I do try to keep it as quiet as I can around residential streets ( most of the time ), particularly at night.

[Wolf]

I do try to keep it as quiet as I can around residential streets ( most of the time ), particularly at night.
I used to feel really stink if I was riding home late at night on the old TS - I used to hear the echoes coming back off the houses and wonder what the poor bastards inside must be thinking/feeling. I was trying to be as quiet as possible - scarcely more than idling, which probably only prolonged their pain - perhaps it would have been better to rev the arse off the bike and go like hell so that they'd only get a short blast of intensely painful noise...

[Ixion]

..
There are still some circumstances where you have to put yourself in a certain amount of danger to get where you're going.
When you're passing cars on the motorway, often cars wont bother to look properly whats behind them, they'll just indicate (maybe) and move into your lane. Surley this is a circumstance where a loud exhaust would be a saftey feature.

..

Whilst its true that a car will hear most of the noise once you've passed them, they will still hear quite a bit of it when you're behind them.

...

Actually it is probably quite good in the situation which worries me the most. Which is when they try to move into where you are while you are actually BESIDE them (sometimes even level with their window). And sometimes in traffic you can't avoid having to ride beside a car (or truck, bus).

In that case they would hear a loud bike, because even if you were a bit behind their seat, the echo effect off the side of the car would carry the exhaust sound.

[chickenfunkstar]

Actually it is probably quite good in the situation which worries me the most. Which is when they try to move into where you are while you are actually BESIDE them (sometimes even level with their window). And sometimes in traffic you can't avoid having to ride beside a car (or truck, bus).

In that case they would hear a loud bike, because even if you were a bit behind their seat, the echo effect off the side of the car would carry the exhaust sound.

I agree completly.
I'll try and avoid travelling directly beside a car on the motorway if I can, but passing other cars (i.e. travelling directly beside them) is nearly unavoidable on the motorway.

I kind of got the impression from the artical by Mr Tank that he didn't approve of people using loud pipes as a substitute for riding defensively.
Fair enough, but the two things aren't mutually exclusive.
I think people riding like idiots would "result in greater prejudice and discrimination against motorcycling" more than poeple who rode with loud exhausts.

I think riding defensively on a bike with a loud exhaust would be safer than riding defensively on a bike with a quiet exhaust.

[eliot-ness]

Love loud bikes. The sound of half a dozen Manx Nortons on full song with Hailwood on the MV howling off into the distance was music to my ears. Blew my eardrums tuning an MV single racer and have been partially deaf ever since. But all that was on the track. On the road I prefer quiet, To hope that someone is going to hear you coming and keep out of your way is like handing a portion of your personal safety to that someone in the hope that he gives a damn. Far better in my mind to take every precaution yourself, make sure you are seen, and antagonise no-one.

On the question of what is loud. My bike produces 93dbls at 100kph approx. The generally accepted level. All modern bikes should have the figure on the vin plate.
However, the accepted level in some U.S. states is only 85dbls. About as noisy as a vacuum cleaner. The Harleys must suffer badly in those states, maybe the after market muffler manufacturers make quick fit baffles for people passing through.
Wonder if the law applies to lawn mowers???

------------------------
Better to keep your mouth shut and let everybody think you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt

[TwoSeven]

Is there any way to check how many dB your pipe is? Or do you need to take it into a bike shop to find out?

There are two types of sound you need to measure - first one is sound level (dB) and is directional. The second method sound power that is non-directional (radiated) and is measured in Bels. There are 10 dB to the bel.

An official way of recording sound level is to measure the bike with a sound measuring device. Its done at half a meter horizontally behind the bike and 45 degrees to the side.

Sound power is done in a special room with lots of sensors. Hence the sound meter form is the most common way of doing it.

In general 50dB is background noise in a room, 80dB is movie theatre volume and 104db is an aircraft taking off. (remember its logarithmic).

As far as I can make out the difference between sound level and power, is that the latter is a pressure wave and the former is just a measurment of resonance (or something like that).

[Motu]

We don't want to go over ''The Great Noise Debate'' again,we did it to death when the Boi Racer Muffler Scare was on.Anyway,I got myself a noisy meter thingy and tested everything that came in the door with the ''official'' noise test you describe - so now I can fail ANY motorcycle and every diesel car on noise...it's no real world test at all.

[phantom]

I'd just like my bike to sound more like how it looks, I know its just a reliable japanese replica of an unreliable british 60's cafe racer, but its got that standard Honda anemic mobility scooter sound and its just not right :no:

[vifferman]

I'd just like my bike to sound more like how it looks, I know its just a reliable japanese replica of an unreliable british 60's cafe racer, but its got that standard Honda anemic mobility scooter sound and its just not right :no:
It should sound like a lightly-muffled megaphone zorst. :yes:

[phantom]

yeah thats right, anyone gota free one

[Slim]

Loud Pipes may not save lives, but your average Ducati-ista will have to admit that Loud Clutches DO save lives! :devil2:


I like fruity exhausts & hate over-loud ones. I was pleased to see the writers distinction of these two states of loudness. :)


Check out http://www.roadsafety.mccofnsw.org.au/a/40.html for an apparent advocation of LPSL from Aussie, although it too makes a distinction between "loud" and "overly loud" exhausts.

[GSVR]

I just got back from the dentist and while I was waiting read a motoring magazine as you do.

A full page add was about this device called a Shu-Roo that bolted to the front of your vehicle and emited a high fequency noise that scared off wildlife(kangaroos). Claimed to be highly effective with fleet vehicles trucks etc getting them fitted.

[Wolf]

I just got back from the dentist and while I was waiting read a motoring magazine as you do.

A full page add was about this device called a Shu-Roo that bolted to the front of your vehicle and emited a high fequency noise that scared off wildlife(kangaroos). Claimed to be highly effective with fleet vehicles trucks etc getting them fitted.
So all we need is a "Shu-Cage device mounted to the front of the bike that emits a loud "GET OUT OF THE WAY YOU FUCKING USELESS CAGER!"

Where do I get one?

[Ixion]

So all we need is a "Shu-Cage device mounted to the front of the bike that emits a loud "GET OUT OF THE WAY YOU FUCKING USELESS CAGER!"

Where do I get one?

They would not hear it.

[N4CR]

I used to ride around with the rediculously quiet stock zxr pipe. People took every oppertunity to pull out infront of me/crunch me into large solid objects etc etc. Even when I wasn't as noob and started understanding the whole 'distance' thing people still pulled out infront of me or BRAKED HARD and changed lanes :mad: .

Three days after mid term break, with me having to take evasive action at least once a day for the three first days of uni.. I decided something. 'Fuck the world, the baffling comes out today'. Did it and have had NO incidents or dangerous 'cager pulling out etc' situations what so ever (3000+kms of riding in 3 months or so). They not only see me (yes it is possible sometimes) but they hear me before they see me now.... works wonders.

I use steel wool and some chicken wire to hold it (steel wool) in for moderating volume/back pressure. - Kiwi ingenuity huh :D

I see people looking behind them and looking around for where the noise is coming from - it works well. It seems to not be 'rediculously' loud but a *distinctive sound* that people have never heard before, causing interest.

Anyway, highly reccomended, especially if you can keep your stock can like I do for woffing, just in case ;) .

[DingDong]

My pipes pretty loud, but they dont save lives... guys have shot past me at 200 and have scared the living shit outta me, so then I gotta shoot past them at 200 to return the favour... someones gonna lose. :weird:

[placidfemme]

There are two types of sound you need to measure - first one is sound level (dB) and is directional. The second method sound power that is non-directional (radiated) and is measured in Bels. There are 10 dB to the bel.

An official way of recording sound level is to measure the bike with a sound measuring device. Its done at half a meter horizontally behind the bike and 45 degrees to the side.

Sound power is done in a special room with lots of sensors. Hence the sound meter form is the most common way of doing it.

In general 50dB is background noise in a room, 80dB is movie theatre volume and 104db is an aircraft taking off. (remember its logarithmic).

As far as I can make out the difference between sound level and power, is that the latter is a pressure wave and the former is just a measurment of resonance (or something like that).

Thank you (I didn't know there were 10dB to one Bel... lol but then again I didn't even know "Bel" existed :weird: )

There are no noise restrictions on bikes in New Zealand are there?

[N4CR]

Thank you (I didn't know there were 10dB to one Bel... lol but then again I didn't even know "Bel" existed :weird: )

There are no noise restrictions on bikes in New Zealand are there?

Uhh as far as I know 'not on import' but WOF will get ya if you are running some nutty straight thru twin brothers system on a gixxer or something I would say.

Unless you happen to 'know them' heheheh :whistle:

I got through a roadside WOF check with mine so they can't be that bad.

[Ixion]

Thank you (I didn't know there were 10dB to one Bel... lol but then again I didn't even know "Bel" existed :weird: )

There are no noise restrictions on bikes in New Zealand are there?

Yes, I think so, indirectly. There was an enormous discussion a year or so back about it.

There is no specific rule about dB for bikes on the road.

But new bikes to be complied and registered have to comply with various design standards . And those impose a restriction of *(I think ?) 104 dB.

And there is a rule that you must (a) maintain the silencer in good order (and have one!), and (b) any third party zorst must not be noticeably louder than the original , makers one.

So yeah, if you mean can a cop give you a ticket for having a bike that's too noisy, yes, he can. I got a compliance ticket years ago on the Jawa (which had nothing at all in the silencers - unbelievable racket, 350cc two stroke. ). Luckily I had a spare set , rusty but with innards. Had to fit them, ride it round to the snake shop and show him. Also got a warning that if he ever caught me with the noisy set again he'd do me like a snake's dinner.

[Jackrat]

Don't like REAL loud pipes,but a reasonable level of MC music has to be good for ya'.
Harelys with straight pipes give me the shits but a Duke at full noise just has to be one of the coolest sounds out there,almost as good as an XS with punched out baffles that I'm sitting on. :cool:

[Bonez]

Don't like REAL loud pipes,but a reasonable level of MC music has to be good for ya'.
Harelys with straight pipes give me the shits but a Duke at full noise just has to be one of the coolest sounds out there,almost as good as an XS with punched out baffles that I'm sitting on. :cool:Hmmmm-gazes at the GB400 :innocent:

[Clockwork]

The poll question may be a little overstated but I hoenestly believe that most drivers are well aware when I'm around. In a year of commuting up and down the Hutt Valley I just don't seem to suffer from the sorts of problems that many rider on this site complain of.

[Marknz]

Yea, I like loud pipes and apparently mine are a bit on the rough side if you're unlucky enough to be behind me. They come to very good effect in traffic, and are excellent when you come across some cager reading, talking on a cellphone or texting while they are driving... great fun.

[Waylander]

Was gonna post this when Wolf first started this thread but my net jaked up on me and I just now got it working.



I think it helps a little. Tells drivers that there is something out there and maybe, just maybe, they might watch out for it. Like it says in that article,


Think about the last time you heard a siren, were you able to identify the location of the approaching vehicle by the sound alone or did you not in fact have to wait to make visual contact with it before you could precisely identify its location relative to you?

That's true but you do usually look when hearing sirens right? You look for the sirens so that you and see if it's something you have to react to i.e. move out of they way and such. My experience has been when a car starts to move into your lane a pulling in the clutch with a bit of brake to let those behind know you might slow down suddenly and giving a good bit of throttle alerts the driver, "hey blind monkey I'm riding here!!" soon enough for them to cease. Kept soccer mom mini van from running me into the median barrier in <st1:City><st1:place>Auckland</st1:place></st1:City> that way once.
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[sAsLEX]

There are two types of sound you need to measure - first one is sound level (dB) and is directional. The second method sound power that is non-directional (radiated) and is measured in Bels. There are 10 dB to the bel.

An official way of recording sound level is to measure the bike with a sound measuring device. Its done at half a meter horizontally behind the bike and 45 degrees to the side.


is actually far more complex and expensive, so complex that ltsa couldn't follow simple guide lines so using their masterful intelligence asked Harry the cleaner what he thought would be a good test.

[Drew]

The poll question may be a little overstated but I hoenestly believe that most drivers are well aware when I'm around. In a year of commuting up and down the Hutt Valley I just don't seem to suffer from the sorts of problems that many rider on this site complain of.

I'm the same. But I think it comes from having done it so often, you know what to expect. The down side is complacency, could get me in the shit when a cage driver does something I haven't seen before, but that is getting serious, cos I have seen some crazy shit. The falcon that fell off the ngauranga flyover being the most out-there! Wonder who and what the next one will do to top that. :gob:

[The Preacher]

Loud pipes do help when filtering... the cars move over because they can hear you coming... I'm not sure if my pipe is "overly" loud but it does it's job :) *loves after market pipes*

The Virago has a very quite system so everyone tells me, therefore it must be because I wobble all over the road that makes cagers pull over to the left :rofl:

[Jackrat]

Hmmm MK2,
Coming to the end of a passing lane an I'm in the slow lane watching my mirrors for the inevitable clown that thinks a truck with nowhere to go is going to get out of their way.I look ahead to see weather this inevitable clown is going to head on the on coming traffic when I can't get out of his way because THERE'S NOWHERE TO GO YA' CLOWN.
I hear/sence something an look down to see a bright green 600cc sport bike right beside my drivers door.Seems todays clown is a biker,a biker that just got by without killing himself (this time)and he knew it too.No sound at all,even from in front.
On another occasion I'm humming along an I hear a sound,check the mirror an here comes an HD around 50 meters back.
Says it all really!!!

[Pixie]

I'm sceptical;all I know is when I'm in a car I rarely hear a bike.Cars are very well sound proofed.
As for the filtering comment, people who pull over for bikes see them in their mirrors.

[Jantar]

I'm sceptical;all I know is when I'm in a car I rarely hear a bike.Cars are very wll sound proofed.
As for the filtering comment, people who pull over for bikes see them in their mirrors.

I must agree with you here. The only times I hear bikes when I'm in a cage is as they pass me, seldom as they are coming up behind.

On my own bikes, I try to to keep the noise down to a minimum, and I wear a well sealed helmet to keep air noise to a minimum. Thus long rides without having to wear ear plugs are normal.

[Mooch]

I'm sceptical;all I know is when I'm in a car I rarely hear a bike.Cars are very wll sound proofed.
As for the filtering comment, people who pull over for bikes see them in their mirrors.


My experience is different; I had a Kawa KR1 250 for many years, stock exhaust. Hardly made any noise below 7,500 rpm. I hardly ever remember car drivers looking in rear vision mirrors when coming up behind them and often had people pull out at intersections. I noticed a marked difference in car driver bike attention with the Ducati. I see far more drivers checking the rear view mirror and more drivers are inclined to move to the left than with the Kr1. It's possibly on the loud side as it runs a full arrows system. I don't filter so I can't speak from that point of view and still ride with the attitude that bikes are invisible to car drivers. But anything that improves my chances of being noticed by other motorists must be a good thing. :2thumbsup

[Kickaha]

I don't recall ever having heard a bike coming when I'm driving the ute I normally notice them because I know how to use my mirrors.

personal opinion on the "loud pipes save lives" is that it's just a big wank so people can justify having them.

[Clockwork]

I don't recall ever having heard a bike coming when I'm driving the ute I normally notice them because I know how to use my mirrors.

personal opinion on the "loud pipes save lives" is that it's just a big wank so people can justify having them.

Sorry, but I don't need to "wank" to justify my exhausts...... they're legal, I can afford them and I like them. That all I need thanks.

[Kickaha]

Sorry, but I don't need to "wank" to justify my exhausts...... they're legal, I can afford them and I like them. That all I need thanks.


My mistake I should have been a bit clearer in my comment as there's a big difference in a so called "legal loud pipe" and one that is obnoxiosly loud and obviously illegal

[Wolf]

The only times I hear bikes when I'm in a cage is as they pass me, seldom as they are coming up behind.
I've noted that too - and that was before we got a car with a functioning stereo. Even loud bikes were not audible until they went thundering past (and then they were LOUD).

And then there's the "give a fuck" factor:

As a biker (Spankme's poll notwithstanding), if I heard a bike I would look out for it specifically (rather than just keeping a lookout for bikes in general) but I cannot rely on others to be so bike-savvy.

Yeah, people hear sirens and have a look - because the siren is high pitched (stands out amongst the background noise) and it triggers the "Large fast object that is not inclined to stop for idiots" synapses and people are keen to get out of the way.

Engines, even loud ones, are the same pitch as the rest of the traffic and most people are not suitably worried about the noise of an approaching car or truck, let alone a motorcycle, to go out of their way to look.

I do not trust people to be able to hear even really loud vehicles from within their cars, and I do not expect that they would care much if they did.

Responding to the sound of a motorcycle would mean having to respond to the sounds of all engines and actually look when an engine is heard - this would mean removing their heads from their arses and that's just too much to hope for...

A loud vehicle might serve as a "warning" out in rural areas owing to the lack of background noise but there are still so many "reasons" why the other person might fail to hear, it or not give a damn anyway, that I would prefer to keep my own wits about me and assume that other people are oblivious to my presence.

I usually ride with my lights on (dipped) during the day and I haven't noticed that people notice me more than on the occasions when I've forgotten to turn them on.

Short of driving a large red truck with flashing lights and high-pitched sirens, there's not a lot you can do to make yourself more "noticeable" - and even then, people have failed to get out of the way of fire engines, ambulances and police cars.

[Biff]

On the sound/direction/sirens issue it's actually the higher frequency noises that are directional. Low frequency 'base' sounds are non directional, and as such it's very difficult to identify their source. Hence the reason hoons can place bass tubes etc in the back of their cars and home cinema system woofers can be placed pretty much anywhere in a room.

In conclusion, we all need exhausts that whistle like a canary as oppossed to low frequency zorsts if we want drivers to know where were coming from, and the police to know where we've gone.

[Ixion]

I wonder if one could arrange a selection of pipes of different lengths so as to function as a pipe organ.

Then one's zorst could play music as one rode . That would attract attention

This is an intriguing thought. I think I will research it some more.

Does anyone know anything about pipe organs ?

[Biff]

organs ?

Tee hee hee, you said "organ".


I'll get my coat. I'm obviously in the wrong place.

[sAsLEX]

In conclusion, we all need exhausts that whistle like a canary as oppossed to low frequency zorsts if we want drivers to know where were coming from, and the police to know where we've gone.
nah just a set of decent air horns to deafen those that step in front of us!

[Oscar]

I usually ride with my lights on (dipped) during the day and I haven't noticed that people notice me more than on the occasions when I've forgotten to turn them on.

Short of driving a large red truck with flashing lights and high-pitched sirens, there's not a lot you can do to make yourself more "noticeable" - and even then, people have failed to get out of the way of fire engines, ambulances and police cars.

This is true.
When I owned a F650Dakar a coupla years ago, I noticed that some people seemed to pull over when I turned up behind them. After a while I realised it was the black & white colour scheme - when viewed in a mirror it looked distinctly cop-like...

http://oscar.smugmug.com/photos/5987-M-1.jpg

[speights_bud]

Can't say ive head a motorcycle approaching from behind when in a cage. But blimmin heck do i know when its next to me! :yes:
loud pipes, not a safety feature but love 'em anyway :Punk:

[Wolf]

This is true.
When I owned a F650Dakar a coupla years ago, I noticed that some people seemed to pull over when I turned up behind them. After a while I realised it was the black & white colour scheme - when viewed in a mirror it looked distinctly cop-like...
That's it - black and white colour schemes are our key to survival.

Admittedly they'd be more effective on a Beemer or a faired Honda CB750 than on a FA50, but it's worth a go.

Heard of an ex-Cop bike with "TERRIFIC" painted on the side - apparently that used to get a lot of cagers suddenly behaving courteously. My brother's ex cop bike used to get quite a response even though it had nothing but the size and white paintwork.

We should all get ex-police-issue BMWs to intimidate the cagers and make Blackbirds look small...

[Oscar]

That's it - black and white colour schemes are our key to survival.

Admittedly they'd be more effective on a Beemer or a faired Honda CB750 than on a FA50, but it's worth a go.

Heard of an ex-Cop bike with "TERRIFIC" painted on the side - apparently that used to get a lot of cagers suddenly behaving courteously. My brother's ex cop bike used to get quite a response even though it had nothing but the size and white paintwork.

We should all get ex-police-issue BMWs to intimidate the cagers and make Blackbirds look small...

I'm just pleased I kept my temper this time.
Last time this issue was raised, I may have been somewhat outspoken...
I discovered what "bad rep." was....

Mind you I was arguing with a gentleman who actually believed that revving up his two stroke 150 would stop him being run over by a Landcruiser cutting into his lane... :rofl:

[Wolf]

Mind you I was arguing with a gentleman who actually believed that revving up his two stroke 150 would stop him being run over by a Landcruiser cutting into his lane... :rofl:
I generally found quickly applying the brakes on my two-stroke 125 stopped me from being run over by cars cutting into my lane.


Also acquainted me with "fishtailing", too...

Come to think of it, once when I was on the infamous TS125, I was in front of one guy - in plain view in broad daylight and aiming an extremely loud pipe straight at him - and he still bloody-near took some of the knobs off my front tyre. That was a definite "don't give a fuck" situation.