Time for a new class of racing?

[cowboyz]

thinkig with pre 83 pre 89 .. bears .. and with modern bikes beign what they are....

How much interest would there be in a jappa class for 90s bikes? What would be the ideal bike to run in a class like this?

[ellipsis]

....we have been discussing a pre 95 class as is the Oz classing for PC's...only talk so far...no smoke without fire , though...

[johan]

Just curious, how old were the pre89 bikes when the pre89 class first was introduced?

In other words, what year did the pre98 class start?

[Nonbeliever]

I think a pre 2000 class would be great.
It'd get some very capable machinery out there.

[sugilite]

Pre89 was only just recognized last year as a legit class, you may need to be good at holding your breath!

[johan]

Pre89 was only just recognized last year as a legit class, you may need to be good at holding your breath!

I guess I was thinking more of the club racing scene where the class has been going for longer, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not sure if cowboys were thinking about a new Nationals class or just a club class?

[sugilite]

Yep, correct, I won the class in the actrix series in 2006, and it had been run well before then too It may be a tight squeeze for many clubs to fit in another class, unless they combine.

[cowboyz]

I guess I was thinking more of the club racing scene where the class has been going for longer, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not sure if cowboys were thinking about a new Nationals class or just a club class?

nationals doesnt need another class. yes I was thinking along the lines of club racing.

merge with bears class? or start just in front of them :scooter: :Pokey:

[CHOPPA]

Pre 2000 is a good idea at club level. Just gotta convince a club but combine it with BEARS sounds good...

[johan]

nationals doesnt need another class. yes I was thinking along the lines of club racing.

merge with bears class? or start just in front of them :scooter: :Pokey:

VMCC seems to be keen to try a new class each year, or at least the few years I've been participating their excellent series.

Year 2009 we saw LG Superbike class then the 2010 Sidecar class, who knows what's coming this year?

[CHOPPA]

One thing you have to realise is that no one actually asks riders what they would like. A survey of riders in each series with some specific questions would be interesting. Too ofter ex riders and riders of different series have to much input into the rules. The nationals for instance..... Maybe they should survey the handful of riders that actually turn up what they think would work better and make it better for them rather than listening to people that dont turn up even when they change the rules

[avgas]

Road based hillclimbs please.

[Deano]

Road based hillclimbs please.


www.cliffhanger.org.nz

Best damn road hillclimb in the country.

[Str8 Jacket]

www.cliffhanger.org.nz

Best damn road hillclimb in the country.

Oh hell yes!! Just not the best for RG150's.....!

[avgas]

www.cliffhanger.org.nz (http://www.cliffhanger.org.nz)
Best damn road hillclimb in the country.
While I probably could get down there, I suspect they won't let me enter without leathers?

But cheers for heads up - is it gonna be on telly?
and why aren't there more?

[Blackflagged]

Just curious, how old were the pre89 bikes when the pre89 class first was introduced?

In other words, what year did the pre98 class start?

Think it`s 25 yrs old for Post classic, although they started pre 89 , a few years before 25 unofficially.

[avgas]

Actually just watched the video - you guys sure thats a hill climb?
Most of it was nice big sweeping roads, flat with no incline.
And the other half looked like it was going down a hill.

I was thinking more 20kmh corners and always going up
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/paClRcT39HY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[RDjase]

VMCC seems to be keen to try a new class each year, or at least the few years I've been participating their excellent series.

Year 2009 we saw LG Superbike class then the 2010 Sidecar class, who knows what's coming this year?

A Two Stroke class would be great !

[satchriossi]

Actually just watched the video - you guys sure thats a hill climb?
Most of it was nice big sweeping roads, flat with no incline.
And the other half looked like it was going down a hill.

I was thinking more 20kmh corners and always going up


Like the road up the Whakapapa side of Ruapehu. That would be intense.

[Str8 Jacket]

Actually just watched the video - you guys sure thats a hill climb?
Most of it was nice big sweeping roads, flat with no incline.
And the other half looked like it was going down a hill.

I was thinking more 20kmh corners and always going up


Yes, it is definately a hillclimb and definately not for poofters..... It's not called "Cliff Hanger' for no reason.... ;)

[Str8 Jacket]

A Two Stroke class would be great !

Especially because they'd all blow up during practice/qualifying and give everyone else more track time.... ;)

[RDjase]

Especially because they'd all blow up during practice/qualifying and give everyone else more track time.... ;)

Only yours would Hels :gob:

It wouldnt be a problem tho, I would bring a spare bike just for you:yes::scooter:

[Str8 Jacket]

Only yours would Hels :gob:

It wouldnt be a problem tho, I would bring a spare bike for you:yes::scooter:

I would need a spare bike with a spare engine with a spare barrel and spare piston and spare crank and and and

[RDjase]

I would need a spare bike with a spare engine with a spare barrel and spare piston and spare crank and and and

I could bring a rope and tow you around, you just have to make the 2T noises:woohoo: and drink some castrol R before the race :woohoo:

[Deano]

Actually just watched the video - you guys sure thats a hill climb?
Most of it was nice big sweeping roads, flat with no incline.
And the other half looked like it was going down a hill.

I was thinking more 20kmh corners and always going up


Did you see the right video ? Jay Lawrence 2.09s ?

It rises approx 300m over 6.1 km and has 27 corners. The tightest, 'the cliffhanger corner', is signposted at 35kph.

I think you obviously need to come to the event in March and check it out for yourself. !! I don't know anyone who has ridden it and not liked it. Except for softcocks and who cares about them.:shutup:

[froggyfrenchman]

Road based hillclimbs please.

Come hang out in Hawkes Bay, we get about 6 a year:yes:

[Wingnut]

....we have been discussing a pre 95 class as is the Oz classing for PC's...only talk so far...no smoke without fire , though...

I would (and I know a few others) that would be stoked if CAMS did start running a pre 95 class. I love the syle/atmsophere that is present at your race meets. And having just bought a second bike (being a '91)................:yes:

[DMack]

I reckon a class on ANY bike you want, but any rider who weighs under 95kg has to have a bag of cement put on their bike...call it the post BEERS class..:scooter:

[wharfy]

Oh hell yes!! Just not the best for RG150's.....!

It's OK on a KR150 :)

[wharfy]

Would it make sense to have a sliding age of the bike scale, say +15 years and +20 years for example ?

[avgas]

Like the road up the Whakapapa side of Ruapehu. That would be intense.
Yeah - actually does anyone know if the Cadrona field road is tar sealed yet?

Mabey I am too addicted to tight corners......may be I need to change.....

[avgas]

Come hang out in Hawkes Bay, we get about 6 a year:yes:
Really - for road bikes?

[avgas]

It's OK on a KR150 :)
As an ex RG150 owner that sounded almost like a challenge ;)

[avgas]

Would it make sense to have a sliding age of the bike scale, say +15 years and +20 years for example ?
Now that makes sense.
a +20 class that keeps moving every year.
Exciting racing.

[ClutchITUP]

great video great name: Norma sounds like a grandma

[sugilite]

Now that makes sense.
a +20 class that keeps moving every year.
Exciting racing.
I'm a competitive prick, I cannot help it, most motorcycle racers are, thats why most race (Einstein or what!). The only issue I see with a sliding scale is that it would in a way be similar to production racing in that your bike would become uncompetitive as "newer" models become eligible. Thats part of the reason I like posties. I guess if you allow open modification, that would help, or just have a run what ya brung class for all comers.

[malcy25]

I'm a competitive prick, I cannot help it, most motorcycle racers are, thats why most race (Einstein or what!). The only issue I see with a sliding scale is that it would in a way be similar to production racing in that your bike would become uncompetitive as "newer" models become eligible. Thats part of the reason I like posties. I guess if you allow open modification, that would help, or just have a run what ya brung class for all comers.

Exactly, and why the postie and classics classes have a fixed cut off date. Even then you do not always see many bikes from the earlier part of each period.

You generally start seeing a call for an additional cut off date when the bikes of the proposed new period end date are becoming 15-20 years old. usually at that point the key note bikes of the period are transitioningf ron just being merely "an old shitter" to most people to slightly misty eyed nostaglia value of the guys that were interested in then when they are new.

10 years is still well within the band of not old enough, not new enough. Most clubs and events already have a class for this in between. Clubmans.

[NZsarge]

How much interest would there be in a jappa class for 90s bikes? What would be the ideal bike to run in a class like this?

You buy me a '99 R1 in good nick and i'll join ya... :D

[cowboyz]

You buy me a '99 R1 in good nick and i'll join ya... :D

they are easy to find.. just look behind any kawasaki!

[Wingnut]

Most clubs and events already have a class for this in between. Clubmans.

But then you get the boot from clubmans for being too quick..........

[cowboyz]

But then you get the boot from clubmans for being too quick..........

there is that.. and clubmans is a good introductory class. dont get me wrong.. Im still a few seconds off getting kicked out of clubmans but when i do I wont be putting my ZX9 into F1. It will probably be time to get a 600 then... unless I can run it in a pre00 class

[NZsarge]

they are easy to find.. just look behind any kawasaki!

Sounds like a challenge, I await the delivery of said R1...

[cowboyz]

Sounds like a challenge, I await the delivery of said R1...

hope your a patient lad................

[sugilite]

there is that.. and clubmans is a good introductory class. dont get me wrong.. Im still a few seconds off getting kicked out of clubmans but when i do I wont be putting my ZX9 into F1. It will probably be time to get a 600 then... unless I can run it in a pre00 class

I mulled over that problem of getting kicked out of clubmans class when doing my last post. Thats what lead me to a run what ya brung class, but maybe with just one rule, that being the bike must be at least XX years old? (I know, back to the sliding scale already suggested, that I had minor issue with) :lol:

[froggyfrenchman]

Really - for road bikes?

Ride what you brung.
The last one we had 30 odd bikes ranging from a ZX14 race bike down to a local highschool lad on an FXR150 with L plates

[Wingnut]

Ride what you brung.
The last one we had 30 odd bikes ranging from a ZX14 race bike down to a local highschool lad on an FXR150 with L plates

With a significant speed difference down any straight - safety would be an issue surely.

[froggyfrenchman]

With a significant speed difference down any straight - safety would be an issue surely.

Closed road hill climbs - street sprints.
They are run one machine at a time, racing against the clock.
By keeping the tracks at just over 1min for the fast guys, and limiting the day to 40 bikes, we still get 7 or 8 runs in each. At the top we have some very close racing, with the top three often seperated by under half a second. Some of the others there are on learner bikes, or BMW tourers, or Guzzis, or anything really. They can race their own time, or their mates', without having to worry about us running rings around them.

The format works. We always get a great turnout.

[satchriossi]

this sounds wonderful and yet up until reading your posts here i was COMPLETELY oblivious to it. Is there a website that has more information on upcoming hillclimbs or anything?

[Deano]

this sounds wonderful and yet up until reading your posts here i was COMPLETELY oblivious to it. Is there a website that has more information on upcoming hillclimbs or anything?

For the past 5 years or so I have been posting in here about this....and I do believe it is the best closed road hillclimb event in the country.

www.cliffhanger.org.nz

check out the Jay Lawrence video of the record run

[satchriossi]

I've done the cliffhanger myself!

I want to know about these ones froggyfrenchman is on about.

[froggyfrenchman]

I've done the cliffhanger myself!

I want to know about these ones froggyfrenchman is on about.

http://pacclub.co.nz/press/hill-climbs-and-street-sprints/

Just keep an eye on this site.
There will no doubt be another couple before the summer's over

[satchriossi]

thankyou! The page is now favourited and i'll keep an eye on it.

[Shorty_925]

Or head to www.sportsground.co.nz for some images from the last 1/4 mile sprint.

[sugilite]

Is there any merit in a clubmans "A" (run what you brung) and clubmans "B" (as clubmans it is now), but instead of being kicked into a formula class if your too fast, you get upgraded to Clubmans "A" (if you choose that instead of formula one or what ever). Run clubmans "A" with maybe bears or another faster type class and that would avoid the RG150/R1 speed differential safety issues? Maybe put a bike must be 7+ or so years old to be in Clubmans "A" class rule....could get a lot of extra riders into a affordable class of racing?

[cowboyz]

thats a damn fine idea! i can see something like that working. maybe put them on the back on the F3 or F2 grid if bears arent running on the day?

[koba]

Would it make sense to have a sliding age of the bike scale, say +15 years and +20 years for example ?

Naa, As sugilite says.



Is there any merit in a clubmans "A" (run what you brung) and clubmans "B" (as clubmans it is now), but instead of being kicked into a formula class if your too fast, you get upgraded to Clubmans "A" (if you choose that instead of formula one or what ever). Run clubmans "A" with maybe bears or another faster type class and that would avoid the RG150/R1 speed differential safety issues? Maybe put a bike must be 7+ or so years old to be in Clubmans "A" class rule....could get a lot of extra riders into a affordable class of racing?


thats a damn fine idea! i can see something like that working. maybe put them on the back on the F3 or F2 grid if bears arent running on the day?

Bollocks.

If you get the boot from clubmans do you think a class should be specially created to suit you bike and situation? Thats crap.
Entry numbers are already diluted across a myriad of classes, the last thing we need is more.

If you are hard out enough to be too fast for clubbies get a bike that fits in with the current class structure, if you go pre '89 Junior you can have an alright bike for 3/5ths of fuck all.

[cowboyz]

Naa, As sugilite says.






Bollocks.

If you get the boot from clubmans do you think a class should be specially created to suit you bike and situation? Thats crap.
Entry numbers are already diluted across a myriad of classes, the last thing we need is more.

If you are hard out enough to be too fast for clubbies get a bike that fits in with the current class structure, if you go pre '89 Junior you can have an alright bike for 3/5ths of fuck all.

if you dont want progression why not scrap the post classics and just have formula classes and tell everyone to buy a real racebike or bugger off?

[montsta56]

I Agree with Koba.
Seems pointless creating a class for every bike that turns up. There's probably already to many classes.

[cowboyz]

i dont think its about creating a class for every bike that shows up.. i think it about creatingthe oppourtunity for more people to get to the track. The days are pretty busy as they are so creating another class that will require another race is not really going to work.. but creating a class within a class, if it encourages more people to get into it then it cant be a bad thing.

[NZsarge]

Ride what you brung.
The last one we had 30 odd bikes ranging from a ZX14 race bike

A ZX14 race bike you say.... Hmm.... Nah, best not.

[ellipsis]

....our last three meetings have proven that running the falling numbers of pre 63 and pre 72's together and combining the pre 82 and pre 89 classes into the formulas running in that era is working really well for the riders, the spectatator and the overall running of the day. Five classes are now filling four grids and the racing is closer and more exciting for all concerned....not only that...most riders actually think its the cool way to do it....leaves an opening for us to let the moderns in at our meetings with no extra track time being taken...suits our small club on our clubdays....

[Wingnut]

....our last three meetings have proven that running the falling numbers of pre 63 and pre 72's together and combining the pre 82 and pre 89 classes into the formulas running in that era is working really well for the riders, the spectatator and the overall running of the day. Five classes are now filling four grids and the racing is closer and more exciting for all concerned....not only that...most riders actually think its the cool way to do it....leaves an opening for us to let the moderns in at our meetings with no extra track time being taken...suits our small club on our clubdays....

Still cant help but think there is merit in running a pre95 class - perhaps it could be run with the pre 89s? I think there are many bikes out there that would be suited in such a class and with the relaxing environment that is experienced at the Cams meets. The numbers in attendance are sure to rise yet not engulf.......

[ellipsis]

....like I said Wingnut..it has been put forward that we should be going this way...will discuss it at next meeting...I can see bikes to '95 , maybe happening, but I doubt the club would handle anything more recent...

[Drew]

there is that.. and clubmans is a good introductory class. dont get me wrong.. Im still a few seconds off getting kicked out of clubmans but when i do I wont be putting my ZX9 into F1. It will probably be time to get a 600 then... unless I can run it in a pre00 class

Why not go to F1 on it? Sugilite has failed to mention that he infact ran a ZX9 the same as yours in F1 at the vic series and finished top five more often than not.

The pre '95 class is a bit of a strange one really. Might as well call it the fireblade cup because the bike was streaks ahead of the other manufacturers, with few exceptions like the YZF750sp, but there aren't enough of those around to make a dent and the price tag reflects it.

[cowboyz]

Why not go to F1 on it? Sugilite has failed to mention that he infact ran a ZX9 the same as yours in F1 at the vic series and finished top five more often than not.

The pre '95 class is a bit of a strange one really. Might as well call it the fireblade cup because the bike was streaks ahead of the other manufacturers, with few exceptions like the YZF750sp, but there aren't enough of those around to make a dent and the price tag reflects it.

i think i would prefer to be last in F2 than last in f1 tbh

[sugilite]

If you get the boot from clubmans do you think a class should be specially created to suit you bike and situation? Thats crap.
Entry numbers are already diluted across a myriad of classes, the last thing we need is more.

If you are hard out enough to be too fast for clubbies get a bike that fits in with the current class structure, if you go pre '89 Junior you can have an alright bike for 3/5ths of fuck all.

As mentioned prior, I see this class being in with a formula class, prob formula 2. That would have an effect of boosting numbers on the grid. I'm not sure I'm interpreting your rep comments correctly, but it looks like you feel that their would be a flood of people to the new class and it would strangle Formula by diluting the class and that would not be fair on those that have made a large financial commitment to the formula class?
My comments are I feel there are a fair few riders out there on older bikes that have attended a fair few track days, are quite fast but are not financially able to commit to getting a whole new bike for formula (and are to fast for clubmans), and other riders that have competed in formula in the past, but their bikes are simply to old now, and also cannot commit financially to a new bike, and yet another group who have a older road bike, but are family men/women that are in the middle of a recession, they have enough money to race their older road bikes once in a while, but thats it (and often a wife/husband in the back ground that would confiscate any money they would get if they sold their currant bike to upgrade, don't ask me how I know this) :lol: The clubmans "A" class I mentioned would get all these groups to the track adding to the overall racing atmosphere imho. There will always be those riders that would want to achieve in the ultimate formula classes, I'm one of them. (if I had the $$$)


i dont think its about creating a class for every bike that shows up.. i think it about creatingthe oppourtunity for more people to get to the track. The days are pretty busy as they are so creating another class that will require another race is not really going to work.. but creating a class within a class, if it encourages more people to get into it then it cant be a bad thing.

Eggsactly my thoughts


....our last three meetings have proven that running the falling numbers of pre 63 and pre 72's together and combining the pre 82 and pre 89 classes into the formulas running in that era is working really well for the riders, the spectatator and the overall running of the day. Five classes are now filling four grids and the racing is closer and more exciting for all concerned....not only that...most riders actually think its the cool way to do it....leaves an opening for us to let the moderns in at our meetings with no extra track time being taken...suits our small club on our clubdays....

Proof right there!


Why not go to F1 on it? Sugilite has failed to mention that he infact ran a ZX9 the same as yours in F1 at the vic series and finished top five more often than not.


I fnished 3rd overall and a won a race or two, but that bike was only a set of flat slides away from being a full spec superbike, and was actually a thou after the big bore kit went in, and probably the fastest normally aspirated ZX9R in the country. Cowboyz bike is now a whole six years older again than my bike was back then and bog standard. Just mentioning it for apples with apples sake.

Personally, I would go formula myself if I was not committed to building a pre89 posties bike, but I do see a real opportunity in a clubmans A and B class (combined with other classes if course) to bring more riders out in these financially challenging times.

[Nonbeliever]

The pre '95 class is a bit of a strange one really. Might as well call it the fireblade cup because the bike was streaks ahead of the other manufacturers, with few exceptions like the YZF750sp, but there aren't enough of those around to make a dent and the price tag reflects it.

agreed, a '95 cutoff would be pointless.
pre 2000 would open it up to a great aray of pretty evenly matched machinery.

[avgas]

i dont think its about creating a class for every bike that shows up.. i think it about creatingthe oppourtunity for more people to get to the track. The days are pretty busy as they are so creating another class that will require another race is not really going to work.. but creating a class within a class, if it encourages more people to get into it then it cant be a bad thing.
If the fee's were kept reasonable I think this would be a great idea.
I am tempted with those ride-what-you-bring hillclimbs....but my poor bucket of bolts won't make it down there, race and come back in 1 piece.

But when your only racing yourself (the clock) could be a huge thrill.

[koba]

As mentioned prior, I see this class being in with a formula class, prob formula 2. That would have an effect of boosting numbers on the grid. I'm not sure I'm interpreting your rep comments correctly, but it looks like you feel that their would be a flood of people to the new class and it would strangle Formula by diluting the class and that would not be fair on those that have made a large financial commitment to the formula class?


i think i would prefer to be last in F2 than last in f1 tbh

No, dilution of all classes is what gets me, We already have heaps.
EDIT: I still mean this when applied to multiple classes on the track at once, it sucks to see "Yay, I came Second!" "Yeah? out of how many?" "Three... :o "

Club racing formula classes are great because they are quite inclusive.
The other side of that is that a wanked bike can be a whole lot faster than a stocker.

I think attitude is more of a problem than not having a pre-whatever class.

It seems some people won't race unless they have a competitive bike for the class they are going to race in, thats all well and good but the answer is to get a competitive bike for whatever class rather than starting yet another class.

A new class will be even and cheap at first but will always evolve to cost more and more as the standard of mods is raised until it becomes like all the other classes.

If one isn't prepared to shell out all the coin and effort involved in getting and running a competitive bike then the next best option is to run a non-competitive bike as fast as they can.

There is nothing wrong with this, I had a huge hoot running my stock NC21 and wangas, crossplies and all.

Surely with a bike like the 9 if you reach the cut off pace and get the boot you would be capable of keeping an OK pace in a formula 1 field? Whats the worry? Have you tried it?

I'm not totally against a pre '95 or 2000 class or whatever, I just think it needs to wait a fair few years yet, until then Clubmans is available and fast enough for most, those that are too fast should be OK in a formula class even if their bike isn't the ducks guts.

[johan]

well said koba

[malcy25]

well said koba

yep, bang on. Been waiting for someone to chip in with all that!

[sugilite]

I do have some thoughts on your last post Koba, but before I put them down here, could someone please tell me what the cut off time is for clubmans before you get moved up?

[cowboyz]

I do have some thoughts on your last post Koba, but before I put them down here, could someone please tell me what the cut off time is for clubmans before you get moved up?

1.18 or less 3 times in a day at manfield

Ill reserve my space for thoughts just as soon as sugi has a say.....

[sugilite]

Cheers for that cowboyz.
I thought it was about that lap time, it has been that for at least 10 to 15 years (or longer), yet the times in vic club formula classes have been steadily dropping for all that time, 5 years back, doing a 10 pretty much guaranteed you a podium, bout 10 years ago it was 12's and now you better be doing 8's. Maybe the solution is to simply move the clubmans time down to say a 1:16. Thats about 115% of a F1 time. Currently, 1:18's are the realm of the backmarkers in F1. coming from clubmans and being able to do a 1:16 at manfield will put you just around mid pack, maybe a bit further back, but not much.

[cowboyz]

now your coming up with some good ideas. the daunting thing about F1 that keeps people away is not wanting to screw up a leaders race with them doing 6 and 7s. 10 seconds over a 6 lap race is ok.. over a 12 lap race it means being passed twice.. the qualifying within 115% of pole should be held stricter too.

[johan]

Cheers for that cowboyz.
I thought it was about that lap time, it has been that for at least 10 to 15 years (or longer), yet the times in vic club formula classes have been steadily dropping for all that time, 5 years back, doing a 10 pretty much guaranteed you a podium, bout 10 years ago it was 12's and now you better be doing 8's. Maybe the solution is to simply move the clubmans time down to say a 1:16. Thats about 115% of a F1 time. Currently, 1:18's are the realm of the backmarkers in F1. coming from clubmans and being able to do a 1:16 at manfield will put you just around mid pack, maybe a bit further back, but not much.

I don't think VMCC's Clubmans class is a championship class, meaning no points are counted.
So if you're of competitive nature, you obviously want to move out from clubmans as soon as the club let you do so.

Just because lap records drop, I don't think clubmans cut off times should drop. Clubmans is the introduction class and should be kept to reasonable laptimes. Beginners are always beginners, even if the machines are getting more capable for each year, in my opinion.

Also, passing or being passed is a part of the race, so I don't think that should put anyone off to enter a class. But I have to admit, enter the same grid as Stroud or the like, you know in the back of your head they are lapping you sooner or later. Fortunately, the quick guys have the experience to pass cleanly, you're in good hands. :shit:

[cowboyz]

I don't think VMCC's Clubmans class is a championship class, meaning no points are counted.
So if you're of competitive nature, you obviously want to move out from clubmans as soon as the club let you do so.

Just because lap records drop, I don't think clubmans cut off times should drop. Clubmans is the introduction class and should be kept to reasonable laptimes. Beginners are always beginners, even if the machines are getting more capable for each year, in my opinion.

Also, passing or being passed is a part of the race, so I don't think that should put anyone off to enter a class. But I have to admit, enter the same grid as Stroud or the like, you know in the back of your head they are lapping you sooner or later. Fortunately, the quick guys have the experience to pass cleanly, you're in good hands. :shit:

i have been on the track with sherriffs on a trackday. its really insane. the guy is sooo frikken fast. I dont mind being passed really.. well not by that calibre. its actually more comfortable than passing some people in the med group on a trackday. clumbmans is not a championship class but they keep points for shits and giggles really.

[sugilite]

I don't think VMCC's Clubmans class is a championship class, meaning no points are counted.
So if you're of competitive nature, you obviously want to move out from clubmans as soon as the club let you do so.

Just because lap records drop, I don't think clubmans cut off times should drop. Clubmans is the introduction class and should be kept to reasonable laptimes. Beginners are always beginners, even if the machines are getting more capable for each year, in my opinion.


I'd have to disagree with you there, I feel that to come from winning clubmans to back of mid pack in F1 is a ideal place to be to learn a thing or two.

When the 1:18 point was set, the bikes would of been slower and not handled anything like the more modern bikes that have come since, so I don't see a good reason to keep the cut off point static for like 15 - 20 + years! Especially if it encourages more people to race, and I'm sure the formula boys don't really need a bunch of easy beats in their class, do they??? I feel a 1:16.5 would be good, but no slower than that. I did a 1:15 in my 2nd race meet ever on a production slabbie GSXR way back in 87...so it's not that fast.

And yes, clubmans certainly do get points awarded and I'm sure if you could look into the psyche of the top 5, it prob does mean something to them.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1720982

[johan]

I'd have to disagree with you there, I feel that to come from winning clubmans to back of mid pack in F1 is a ideal place to be to learn a thing or two.

When the 1:18 point was set, the bikes would of been slower and not handled anything like the more modern bikes that have come since, so I don't see a good reason to keep the cut off point static for like 15 - 20 + years! Especially if it encourages more people to race, and I'm sure the formula boys don't really need a bunch of easy beats in their class, do they??? I feel a 1:16.5 would be good, but no slower than that. I did a 1:15 in my 2nd race meet ever on a production slabbie GSXR way back in 87...so it's not that fast.

And yes, clubmans certainly do get points awarded and I'm sure if you could look into the psyche of the top 5, it prob does mean something to them.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1720982

Some good points there and no doubt the best way of getting faster is to ride with a faster class!

I guess my concern was more about keeping 'faster' riders in clubmans, where you have completely new beginners trying to get their head around racing mixed with, as you said, mid pack F1 riders, instead of promoting them to next 'real' class.

Even if the bikes gets faster and more capable, the human brain is constant, or at least evolving more slowly than a Gixxer between production years :)

The VMCC entry form said:
"Commencing from the 2008 season Clubmans is no longer a championship class. No championship points will be awarded to riders."

Implying no points will be tracked between rounds. Obviously mylaps keeps the records on the site and I agree it's exiting to following the points between the rounds!

cheers

[koba]

Cheers for that cowboyz.
I thought it was about that lap time, it has been that for at least 10 to 15 years (or longer), yet the times in vic club formula classes have been steadily dropping for all that time, 5 years back, doing a 10 pretty much guaranteed you a podium, bout 10 years ago it was 12's and now you better be doing 8's. Maybe the solution is to simply move the clubmans time down to say a 1:16. Thats about 115% of a F1 time. Currently, 1:18's are the realm of the backmarkers in F1. coming from clubmans and being able to do a 1:16 at manfield will put you just around mid pack, maybe a bit further back, but not much.


Smart man.