Ageing motorcyclists - what's your plan?

[Blackbird]

Out of the blue this week, I had an email from David L Hough, much-respected motorcycle journalist and author on riding skills among other things. He’s 73, ridden a million miles by bike and is someone well worth listening to. I was staggered that he’d got in touch with a very average Kiwi rider but he’d seen some blog posts I’d previously made on safe riding and thoughts about riding as you age. (The main reason I completed the 1600 km / 1000 miles in 24 hour Grand Challenge endurance ride last October on the Street Triple was to see whether at 63, I still had reasonable mental and physical stamina after a gap of 7 years).

David was essentially asking for personal opinions on what individuals do as they age with respect to coping strategies to either continue motorcycling or give it away. In my case, the first steps were to sell the big, heavy Blackbird and buy a lighter, lower Street Triple. On-going refresher training is another step.

Anyway, here is the link to the things which David and I have been roaming over:
http://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2011/02/whats-age-got-to-do-with-it.html

Would any of the errr…… older riders who inhabit this forum care to comment on their thoughts and what, if anything they’ve done or thought about it? I’ll direct David to the link in a few days.

Cheers,

Geoff

[MSTRS]

First step is to check that you're not repeating yourself...:innocent:

[Blackbird]

First step is to check that you're not repeating yourself...:innocent:

Ooops - hopefully fixed. :facepalm: Thanks for that - first signs, y'know!

[MSTRS]

I'll comment as requested, although at 53 I don't think I'm old enough...
My position is that one can 'choose' to be 'old' (or whatever) IF one is blessed with good health. For me, I am not a number-related age. I just do as I've always done. At least, it feels like that anyway.
As we age, we may be forced to compromise what we ride, or how we ride, or where we ride. But as long as we are not a danger to ourselves or others, there is no reason to stop riding at any age.

[Blackbird]

I'll comment as requested, although at 53 I don't think I'm old enough...
My position is that one can 'choose' to be 'old' (or whatever) IF one is blessed with good health. For me, I am not a number-related age. I just do as I've always done. At least, it feels like that anyway.
As we age, we may be forced to compromise what we ride, or how we ride, or where we ride. But as long as we are not a danger to ourselves or others, there is no reason to stop riding at any age.

Cheers MSTRS - likewise with regard to attitude. The one point of David's which bothered me a bit though was how do you know that you're not a danger to yourself or others?

[ellipsis]

....MSTRS you are definitely too young to comment...same age as me and Im a spring chicken....I regard myself as one of the younger classic, post classic racers in our club, and I still have to go like hell to keep up with the septuagenarian content in the club...admittedly the younger streetstock and bucket racers view me in the same light as the older chaps....but they are wrong...way off the mark...misguided..wrong...little shits...and a full face helmet tells no lies....

[Edbear]

Cheers MSTRS - likewise with regard to attitude. The one point of David's which bothered me a bit though was how do you know that you're not a danger to yourself or others?

That's the $64,000 question, really, and the sad answer is that we don't know. All of us have minor lapses while driving/riding and give ourselves a bit of a wake up, it's called "being human." When we see oldies driving badly, we know they think they are driving well, mind you that goes mostly for youngsters too.

The point is that if we are humble and safety conscious, we will be monitoring our own standards and we will be alert to any lapses in judgement and take heed of them. When we reach a point where we feel we are not doing well enough, or especially, if we listen to our spouse/family/friends, we will then perhaps make the decision to quit before something really bad happens. However, for those of us who love driving/riding, the decision to quit will be one of the hardest we will ever make!

I have no choice at the mo but to quit riding due to my health and I'm absolutely gutted to sell my bike! I love it and I love riding but the risk of fracture is too great and may remain so for several years.

[pritch]

I just had a birthday so I'm feeling my age. Just as well it only happens once a year...

A bit over a week from now I'm off around the South Island on my Speed Triple, but I do think that the next bike should probably be a bit lower and a bit lighter? Since Bluewing resolutely refuse to import the Deauville it might have to be a Hornet. Or maybe a Street Triple. Givi do offer hard luggage for the Hornet though...

I was worried that as I got older I might get forgetful, like forget do do my fly up?
With age comes wisdom though, and I now know that isn't important.
What matters is that you remember to undo your fly first.

[oldrider]

Well, currently going through a total revision of my long active attachment to motorcycling (56yrs) and I am almost the same age as David Hough.

This is something I do most of the time these days and am actually just about to take off on my bike to Oamaru for a ride!

Our dear friend Nick Smith and his excessive ACC costs has forced me to seriously consider bringing forward my decision to quit riding altogether but unfortunately I can not bring myself to seriously try to sell my bike!

I am trying to make myself replace motorcycling with another alternative hobby and my dear wife (also a licensed rider) thinks I am being a bit pedantic about it.

If someone came along and offered to buy my bike they could take all our gear with it and it would be something I don't have to think about any more, a done deal!

Would that be an end to it? Not on your Nelly, the love of bike riding is too deeply engrained in the blood!

Am I safe riding on the road, "yes" but definitely not as strong and confident as I was, especially got to watch the cold and fatigue.

This is about the only regret I have about growing old and probably but for Nick Smith I would have continued for a few years yet! :facepalm:

Anybody fancy a well kept Tiger with lots of extras? :crybaby:

[Dodgyiti]

I agree with the heavy bike thing. As the body, and more importanly the back age I don't want a bike much over 200kg, if it ever fell off the stand or something I don't think my back could handle picking it up again. And being a bloke there is no way I'm going to ask for help eh?:innocent:
I realise most bikes are nice and light when on the move, it is the moving them about when not under power that I notice that heavy is not good for me.
Also outright power seems to not bother me anymore, I don't need the latest and greatest to enjoy the ride, so anything over 100hp is wasted on me. Enough power to maintain a decent speed and safely overtake on the open road is enough, my licence thanks me for that:laugh:

Oldrider- go buy yourself a pre 1971 bike, $115 a year for rego and around $140 for comprehensive insurance and screw Nick!

[Edbear]

Well, currently going through a total revision of my long active attachment to motorcycling (56yrs) and I am almost the same age as David Hough....SNIP...Anybody fancy a well kept Tiger with lots of extras? :crybaby:

You are referring to the bike, here....? :shutup:

[pritch]

The increments by which our abilities decline over time are most likely minute and may not normally be noticeable. One day though we may get into a situation which makes it all too apparent that things aren't what they used to be. It may not be in the nature of a dramatic revelation, it could equally be a series of minor events that add gradually, but increasingly, to the realisation that things have changed.

Depending on the particular circumstances, and after careful and considered evaluation, it may be appropriate to consider some alternatives.

I have arthritis in the shoulders which sometimes becomes painful after only a few minutes. It isn't actually continual, rather more like frequent. Since I'm about to depart on a ten day tour of the South Island I have obtained a prescription for anti-inflammatories (sp?) and will also carry a common pain killer.

While I don't do as much touring as I'd like, it is a significant part of my perception as to what motorcycling is. With retirement looming it is hoped that time will permit increased opportunities for travel on the bike. While my next bike will be lower and lighter, it should be suited to longer rides as well as the usual short blasts. These latter do tend to be somewhat more sedate these days and that's probably not a bad thing.

Two years ago I attended a military re-union on my bike. I was the only one that did that. At the most recent re-union there were three people arrived on bikes, and I couldn't attend or I'd have done so too. Everybody at the reunion is aged 65 plus.

The thought occurs though that it is important to ride frequently to keep the skills honed. Basically I ride every day. The urban commute is by moped, and I try and get out on the bike every weekend.

If in future, touring remained a major interest but advancing frailty limited my options, I'd consider buying one of the larger scooters. A more modest alternative might be a suitable older bike for the occasional less ambitious ride. Here's hoping those decisions are nowhere near imminent. I'm only 67.

[slofox]

I'm 62. An' a half...:devil2:

I coped with getting older by selling an SV650S (50kw) and buying a GSX-R600 (80kw).
I figured that since my natural get-up-and-go was getting-up-and-going, I needed some more external input - like 30 extra kw...

On a slightly more serious note, I am a helluva lot more careful now than when I was 20. Not so much because I worry about what I can and can't do, but because I have a much greater awareness at this end of my life of the grief I could cause other people if I ride like a loony. I don't want to bust other people up or cause them grief or even (god forbid!) damage their precious cages.
I am also aware that if I smash my bike up, it is very unlikely that I can afford a replacement. So I try to keep it shiny side up as well. It's one thing to wreck a $100 bike - quite another to wreck a $10,000 bike.

Apart from all that, it's pretty much business as usual. I think...or did I already say that..? :blink:

[Blackbird]

The increments by which our abilities decline over time are most likely minute and may not normally be noticeable. One day though we may get into a situation which makes it all too apparent that things aren't what they used to be. It may not be in the nature of a dramatic revelation, it could equally be a series of minor events that add gradually, but increasingly, to the realisation that things have changed.

Depending on the particular circumstances, and after careful and considered evaluation, it may be appropriate to consider some alternatives.

I have arthritis in the shoulders which sometimes becomes painful after only a few minutes. It isn't actually continual, rather more like frequent. Since I'm about to depart on a ten day tour of the South Island I have obtained a prescription for anti-inflammatories (sp?) and will also carry a common pain killer.

While I don't do as much touring as I'd like, it is a significant part of my perception as to what motorcycling is. With retirement looming it is hoped that time will permit increased opportunities for travel on the bike. While my next bike will be lower and lighter, it should be suited to longer rides as well as the usual short blasts. These latter do tend to be somewhat more sedate these days and that's probably not a bad thing.

Two years ago I attended a military re-union on my bike. I was the only one that did that. At the most recent re-union there were three people arrived on bikes, and I couldn't attend or I'd have done so too. Everybody at the reunion is aged 65 plus.

The thought occurs though that it is important to ride frequently to keep the skills honed. Basically I ride every day. The urban commute is by moped, and I try and get out on the bike every weekend.

If in future, touring remained a major interest but advancing frailty limited my options, I'd consider buying one of the larger scooters. A more modest alternative might be a suitable older bike for the occasional less ambitious ride. Here's hoping those decisions are nowhere near imminent. I'm only 67.

Just a young bugger at 67 then :yes: I'd imagine that the squids on this and other forums might be rather pleased to still be riding, and riding well come your age! Thanks for great input. I think keeping the skills honed is the absolute key to staying safe, both by regular riding and formal courses (the latter being invaluable for learning both new skills and identifying shortcomings).

Cheers,

Geoff

[Blackbird]

I'm 62. An' a half...:devil2:

I coped with getting older by selling an SV650S (50kw) and buying a GSX-R600 (80kw).

Slofox, I admire your ability to bend your knees to fit a Gixxer. Don't think I could do it with damage to both knees!:shutup:

[MSTRS]

I think keeping the skills honed is the absolute key to staying safe, both by regular riding and formal courses (the latter being invaluable for learning both new skills and identifying shortcomings).



AND highlighting/correcting the inevitable bad habits. We are but human, after all.

[slofox]

Slofox, I admire your ability to bend your knees to fit a Gixxer. Don't think I could do it with damage to both knees!:shutup:

I find it more comfortable than the SVS believe it or not.

I did 1100km in 28 odd hours at New Year and could still walk afterwards...

[george formby]

That's the $64,000 question, really, and the sad answer is that we don't know. All of us have minor lapses while driving/riding and give ourselves a bit of a wake up, it's called "being human." When we see oldies driving badly, we know they think they are driving well, mind you that goes mostly for youngsters too.

The point is that if we are humble and safety conscious, we will be monitoring our own standards and we will be alert to any lapses in judgement and take heed of them. When we reach a point where we feel we are not doing well enough, or especially, if we listen to our spouse/family/friends, we will then perhaps make the decision to quit before something really bad happens. However, for those of us who love driving/riding, the decision to quit will be one of the hardest we will ever make!

I have no choice at the mo but to quit riding due to my health and I'm absolutely gutted to sell my bike! I love it and I love riding but the risk of fracture is too great and may remain so for several years.

I'm not really eligible to contribute but I do agree with on going self assessment, it's something I already do & my ability or actions are directly related to how much time i spend on the bike. Use it or lose it, it seems. I'm brutally honest about how I'm riding.

My pater bought an Aprilia Tuono in his late 50's with the excuse that he wanted to ride that style of bike while he still had the mental & physical reflexes to really use it. To this day, he is now retired, he commutes on a C90 through the winter, gets his jollys on a CRM 250 motard ( I want it! ) & tours on my up over TDM 850. He is still one of the fastest road riders I know, I give him a bollocking when I go home now for being irresponsible, he thinks I ride like a copper. Oh, more irony.

Despite not being of a certain age I already notice it takes me longer to get properly focused when I jump on the bike after a lay off, when I lose the focus altogether I should really get off the road.

Sorry to hear about your circumstances Edbear.

[Edbear]

I'm not really eligible to contribute but I do agree with on going self assessment, it's something I already do & my ability or actions are directly related to how much time i spend on the bike. Use it or lose it, it seems. I'm brutally honest about how I'm riding.

My pater bought an Aprilia Tuono in his late 50's with the excuse that he wanted to ride that style of bike while he still had the mental & physical reflexes to really use it. To this day, he is now retired, he commutes on a C90 through the winter, gets his jollys on a CRM 250 motard ( I want it! ) & tours on my up over TDM 850. He is still one of the fastest road riders I know, I give him a bollocking when I go home now for being irresponsible, he thinks I ride like a copper. Oh, more irony.

Despite not being of a certain age I already notice it takes me longer to get properly focused when I jump on the bike after a lay off, when I lose the focus altogether I should really get off the road.

Sorry to hear about your circumstances Edbear.

Thanks mate! I go see my surgeon next Wed. so hopefully he's got some good news for me. Problem is Osteoporosis and having major spinal surgery last Sept after breaking my back last May. Big question is how strong my bones are as the bone density scan showed they were very weak and the worry was whether the surgery would "take". I'll find out Wed. A mate joked I should just hand Mrs. Bear a screwdriver and get her to tighten me up from time to time... :yes:

I find it takes about a half hour for me to reattune to the bike after a lay-off and then I start to get back into sinc and relax. So I'm a bit cautious at first. But I do feel still confident in my abilities and can get playful on it and ride "agressively" when I feel like having fun.

[george formby]

Thanks mate! I go see my surgeon next Wed. so hopefully he's got some good news for me. Problem is Osteoporosis and having major spinal surgery last Sept after breaking my back last May. Big question is how strong my bones are as the bone density scan showed they were very weak and the worry was whether the surgery would "take". I'll find out Wed. A mate joked I should just hand Mrs. Bear a screwdriver and get her to tighten me up from time to time... :yes:

I find it takes about a half hour for me to reattune to the bike after a lay-off and then I start to get back into sinc and relax. So I'm a bit cautious at first. But I do feel still confident in my abilities and can get playful on it and ride "agressively" when I feel like having fun.

Sounds like my Dad, a nice run out to get the feel of the Tuono. 45 minutes later I'm grinding the TDM's footpegs to keep up & he is leaving me for dust. I put it down to aging rapidly. It's a novelty realising that the bloke who drummed all the riding skills into me, put the fear of God into me & kept me on the straight & narrow is actually a flat out hoon.
I'm waiting for riding to become a challenge not a pleasure then get a bus pass, meanwhile the more miles the better.

[Hitcher]

I rarely think of my age, until I'm trying to read the fine print on something in low light.

I'd like to ride bikes for many years to come. However sometimes things conspire against intentions to do anything at future times. I have no plans to ride or to drive if I cannot do either safely.

[Ocean1]

Age shall not weary those wot were never that fookin' energetic in the first place.

Insofar as a plan might be a good idea I reckon more horsepower is a perfectly acceptable substitute for whatever deficiencies advanced decreptitude might entail.





At least I'm perfectly willing to accept it.

[Blackbird]

Age shall not weary those wot were never that fookin' energetic in the first place.

Insofar as a plan might be a good idea I reckon more horsepower is a perfectly acceptable substitute for whatever deficiencies advanced decreptitude might entail.





At least I'm perfectly willing to accept it.

Your bike has lots of horsepower??? :innocent:

[Ocean1]

Your bike has lots of horsepower??? :innocent:

Suficient.



For the moment.



'Cause I is not old yet y'understand.

[Katman]

I think keeping the skills honed is the absolute key to staying safe,

I would say that having the correct attitude when on the bike is the absolute key to staying safe - skills come a close second.

[superman]

Scientists say we will have the capabilities to make people live over 1000 years in the next couple decades, so we'll see if I get to my aging point :yes:

[Sis]

My plan is to be riding my bike on my 90th birthday:woohoo:

Got aways to go so getting in lotsa practise.

I have all ready out-ridden my parents who gave up riding before I got to this age.
My age - old enough to be a member of Ulysses but too old to be a junior ie I am over 50.

I am about to change from a sports bike to something of a cruiser as I my wrists can't take the weight and my hands go numb. Of course, riding at a faster speed would work but ...the demerit points stack up.

As I age, I am very aware that my body is going to take longer to heal. Where I may have taken risks in the younger days, I don't now. My body is beginning to remind me that I am not as agile as I used to be.

Definitely no plans of retiring off the bike, no matter what the govt tries to do.

[pritch]

I would say that having the correct attitude when on the bike is the absolute key to staying safe

You would say that. I'm not so sure.

Someone still riding in their sixties, as opposed to a recently "born again" rider, might be assumed to have a correct(ish) attitude?

That moves skill maintenance up the priorities.

For some, Tom, Skidmark, and others hereabout come to mind, attitude would be the key. If it could be changed...

[yungatart]

When I get old, I plan to ride a Harley naked down the footpath, get arrested, and call on my children to bail me out. I have had this plan for many years. I have the children, now I just need to get old, steal a Harley and find a cop on a footpath.

[Virago]

When I get old, I plan to ride a Harley naked down the footpath, get arrested, and call on my children to bail me out. I have had this plan for many years. I have the children, now I just need to get old, steal a Harley and find a cop on a footpath.

ATGATT nazis be damned, eh...? :done:

[superman]

I am about to change from a sports bike to something of a cruiser as I my wrists can't take the weight and my hands go numb.

Why on earth are your wrists taking weight in the first place?

Maybe I'm mistaken being a newbie rider, but I thought you're not supposed to put any weight up on the handlebars so you squeeze the tank with your legs. To allow you to even brake hard and have no weight there.

Or is that not the correct technique?

[oldrider]

Definitely no plans of retiring off the bike, no matter what the govt tries to do.

Famous last words, wait until you get there, there are changes that never dream of when you are young! :lol:

Oh the arrogance of youth, just gotta love it! :clap:

[george formby]

When I get old, I plan to ride a Harley naked down the footpath, get arrested, and call on my children to bail me out. I have had this plan for many years. I have the children, now I just need to get old, steal a Harley and find a cop on a footpath.

You also need to have " Riding the kid's inheritance " on the bottom of your number plate. That's what my Dad is doing, bless him.

[MIXONE]

I find it more comfortable than the SVS believe it or not.

I did 1100km in 28 odd hours at New Year and could still walk afterwards...

Lucky you.I did 14 odd hours of drinking bourbon on New Year and I'm fucked if I could walk afterwards...

[MIXONE]

However when riding now I prefer low seat height and better power to weight ratio.I'm not quite gereatric but well qualify for Uselysies.

[slofox]

You also need to have " Riding the kid's inheritance " on the bottom of your number plate. That's what my Dad is doing, bless him.

(actually, that's what I'm doing too...shhhhhh)

[yungatart]

ATGATT nazis be damned, eh...? :done:

Absolutely!
I wonder if I will get any SMIDSY moments.....

[Hitcher]

Absolutely!
I wonder if I will get any SMIDSY moments.....

Or, even worse, a MWGTYHG moment.

[98tls]

Why on earth are your wrists taking weight in the first place?

Maybe I'm mistaken being a newbie rider, but I thought you're not supposed to put any weight up on the handlebars so you squeeze the tank with your legs. To allow you to even brake hard and have no weight there.

Or is that not the correct technique?

:facepalm:Who comes up with this crap,be wary of so called "correct technique" there fella,whilst at it be wary of some that profess to know them all.

[Ocean1]

whilst at it be wary of some that profess to know them all.

'Cept me an' thee, a'course, pillars of all that's right and good.

And advice to any of the concaved lot to squeeze hard with the legs can't go too far astray.

[Voltaire]

:facepalm:Who comes up with this crap,be wary of so called "correct technique" there fella,whilst at it be wary of some that profess to know them all.

Yeah...I get sore wrists too....but then commuting on a sports bike would do that.... The older I get the more I want to do things I missed out on....classic racing appeals....so far thrashing a FXR150 round a go cart track is sufficient....
the R90 racer is a few months away in the making....
Saw an 80 + bloke racing a BSA Bantam today....in fact lots of old blokes racing.:woohoo:

[98tls]

'Cept me an' thee, a'course, pillars of all that's right and good.

And advice to any of the concaved lot to squeeze hard with the legs can't go too far astray.

Will give you the second one mate,nice work.

[98tls]

Yeah...I get sore wrists too....but then commuting on a sports bike would do that.... The older I get the more I want to do things I missed out on....classic racing appeals....so far thrashing a FXR150 round a go cart track is sufficient....
the R90 racer is a few months away in the making....
Saw an 80 + bloke racing a BSA Bantam today....in fact lots of old blokes racing.:woohoo:

Indeed,getting on myself but no plans to change anything,kept me upright (most of the time) for 38 or so years,last thing i would do is buy a crusier etc,comfortable :facepalm:my arse,rode a VTX 1800 awhile back and fully intend on avoiding such a thing for :blink:ever.

[awa355]

" to squeeze hard with the legs can't go too far astray".

Tried to get the missus to practice that, still got bucked off. The bikes definitely safer.

[Voltaire]

Indeed,getting on myself but no plans to change anything,kept me upright (most of the time) for 38 or so years,last thing i would do is buy a crusier etc,comfortable :facepalm:my arse,rode a VTX 1800 awhile back and fully intend on avoiding such a thing for :blink:ever.

+1 on not to cruiser bikes, I had a ride on a Guzzi Cali for a few days....never again.:sick:

[Motu]

Plans? There are plans for getting old? No one told me,I've been doing it all by myself - I've probably gone and done it all wrong.

[superman]

:facepalm:Who comes up with this crap,be wary of so called "correct technique" there fella,whilst at it be wary of some that profess to know them all.

Oh it was just from that California Riding School place, saw a video on it. Instantly made all the weight go away from the wrists and made downhill cornering much less daunting. Also with the less weight on the front it allows the springs to recoil much more naturally to the road surface.

But I guess if you want to blame your body and switch to a cruiser go for it :facepalm:

[slofox]

Plans? There are plans for getting old? No one told me,I've been doing it all by myself - I've probably gone and done it all wrong.

Yeah. No bugger told me about plans either. Y'know what Pink Floyd said..."No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"?

Well I sure missed it...:angry:

[superman]

Yeah. No bugger told me about plans either. Y'know what Pink Floyd said..."No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"?

Well I sure missed it...:angry:

And that is why you spend your youth listening to dark side of the moon to ingrain it!... And have women tell you it's like funeral music, silly, silly, women. :facepalm:

[Crisis management]

Can we have a shorter thread please, I've forgotten what the subject was?

[ellipsis]

Plans? There are plans for getting old? - I've probably gone and done it all wrong.

....Im not looking forward to the physical part of how long I have left...my older brother recently told me that , ' if I knew I was going to be around this long, I would maybe have looked after myself better'...maybe...probably not...its been a fun, exciting, frightening life...the only true regret I have, is being born in a time when smoking cigarettes was cool, sexy, not bad for your health, and being surrounded by heavy smokers who thought the same...I feel very fortunate to have been put on the planet when the atlas was a mass of pink and an overland walk, ride, drive was a safe way to get to europe...when a V8 bolted to a chassis was a legal way to move about the place...when a Honda SS90 was a cool thing to own and riding from chch to hokitika on one was just another way to get there...when a pushbike with a fucked chain, bald tyres and only a back pedal brake was a 'mountain bike'...

...the last big off I had at Ruapuna , not long ago, ending up with another broken rib and fucked shoulder, made me consider my durability, more so than at any time prior to that...but it healed and all thoughts of me being past my sell by date, disappeared out the window...the pink floyd lyrics mentioned , 'no one told you when to run, you've missed the starting gun', are very poignant and relevant to me...they are the exact words I told my kids to listen to... I am so happy that my sons dont smoke...are doing there trades and ride motorcycles...but (and everything that comes after but, is bullshit) I do hope they take better care of their bones than I have...

....one of the things that make me smile the most, is being told, often by a younger person with a gut hanging over their belt who have not been a lot further than Auckland or Sydney and their biggest thrill in life is a 51 inch screen in their lounge, that , I am silly, mad or a fucking idiot...even though the thought of the pains I have and the fact that they are going to get a lot worse impinge on my happy thoughts more and more, I still relish all the things I've done to get into this state and I'd probably do it all again...maybe even harder...I'm chasing guys who have twenty years on me and my only hope is that I can be doing it at that age...it will be the frame that lets me down...

[Okey Dokey]

My plan is to use it or lose it. I intend to keep physically active and fit, and stay a healthy weight all my life. As a woman, I see that a lot of older ladies do lose muscle mass and often become frail with advancing age. There may come a day when I just don't feel strong enough moving the bike around, particularly at low speed. If that were to happen, I would look at getting a trike or a can-am thingy so that I could continue to ride and feel confident.

[slofox]

r...I'm chasing guys who have twenty years on me ...

My partner and I still compete on the ballroom floor. I always gloat like hell when we beat couples one third my age...hurhurhur. Some of them get a bit tetchy about it but a lot of them think it's pretty amazing that we are still competitive. The dancing is probably one reason why I'm still comfortable on a sporty...you have to be one helluva fit and it keeps the weight off and the flexibility on.

[Blackbird]

Hello again and thanks so much for all the varied responses. David Hough has found the replies to be a valuable insight to how a wide spectrum of “mature” riders think about riding as they age. I posted on several forums throughout the world and whilst there’s some common themes, there are also significant differences. I guess this comes from particular traits of each national motorcycling scene… the level of training, type of roads, types of bikes and so on.

Whilst “Acts of God” can’t be planned for, the common insights to keep riding into old age are ride regularly, keep your skills up through formal training, keep healthy/reasonably fit and if you need to get a lighter or smaller bike at some stage, just go and do it and forget about “Little Dick” Syndrome! And the other important thing is that when the time finally comes to give up bikes, have a fall-back to put your passions and energies into if you haven’t already got one.

I already mentioned David’s million miles on a bike pedigree so his thoughts are well worth chewing over. I have his permission to publish his comments to me when we were roaming over the whole topic. I haven’t edited them at all and it’s both valuable and interesting to see David’s take on the subject. Hope it stirs what grey matter we have remaining and lets us ride longer in safety.

Cheers,

Geoff

DAVID’S MUSINGS
I had a chance to review the various sites you listed. You can quote, reference, or post anything I've sent to you. Your stirring the pot is producing some valuable feedback.

The Kiwi Biker NZ comments were perhaps the more mentally mature--riders recognizing the important concept that there is no "light switch" moment when that guy in the mirror is suddenly too old to ride anymore. Younger riders seem to depend more on testosterone, and some "western movie" fantasy that they can slap leather now without looking back, and then somewhere way down the road (and too far to think about) get shot out of the saddle at the old age of 65 or 70.

My experience has been that the body ages much like an old bike, a part rusting here, a bearing seizing there. There is no point in parking it--or your body--just because of some partial failure. You get your knee meniscus pruned, your hip replaced, prescription eye glasses, etc. Yes, it's possible for some of us to continue riding aggressively beyond age 70 or 75 or 80. But we can't ignore the continuing degradation of our physical and mental skills. Why do so many posts refer to a lighter, lower bike? Because it's typical for leg strength, mobility, and nerve feedback to degrade, reducing the ability to hold the bike up.

What few seem to have commented upon is that attitude typically changes, as well as physical ability. Where at age 35 or 40 it seemed very important to ride swiftly, I've discovered at "over 70" that riding swiftly doesn't seem as important anymore. Speed is relegated to just one factor in the experience of riding. I can putt along at the speed limit, or even slower on a vacant road, listening to the birds, gawking at the farm animals, or just enjoying the smell of a freshly mown field. I realize that younger, less patient riders might think this is a cop out; that I'm trying to come up with justification for being a wuss. No, it's actually a change in my mindset. So, I'd ask the question: are you prepared for your attitude about motorcycling to change? Do you think you'll get to a point--10 or 15 years down the road--where you'll get just as much joy out of sitting in your garage running your eyes over your machine, or your fleet, without having to start an engine? Would it be fun to trailer a vintage bike to a rally and just ride it around the grounds? Or, do you think you'll always have that need to get on the bike and go somewhere, perhaps even at aggressive speeds?

Friends in Woking, England had moved up to a BMW KLT a few years ago. At about age 75, he bought a Suzuki Bergman scooter, and for a few years they continued to tour Europe on the scooter, doing whatever they would have been doing on the LT but with much less effort and expense. I've lost contact with them. I believe the wife's health was failing, and it just wasn't acceptable for the husband to go riding without her. I suspect if they still own the Bergman, but it only gets ridden into town.

Another friend in the UK rode for years, and at about age 70 dropped his Triumph on some slick paving. He sold the bike, and purchased a sports car. The condition of road surfaces in the UK were too much of a crap shoot to risk on a bike anymore.

Having ridden in NZ, including the Coromandel Peninsula, I'm aware of the great twisty nature of the roads. If I were riding NZ, I'd probably not be on a rigid three-wheeler, because it just takes too much energy to stuff a rigid trike or rig through tight turns all day--even with power steering. A Piaggio MP3 might be a good alternative for those wishing for better stability. Yep, a Miata will take corners as well as a Spyder. But the Spyder is (just about everywhere) a motorcycle, if it's motorcycling that floats your boat rather than just taking corners fast.

My point of raising the issue of aging is that there typically isn't a sudden point where you realize and accept that your current style of riding is over. We like to talk about those aging parents and grandparents who are a danger on the road, and should wake up and turn in their keys. We don’t like to think about being the aging parent or grandparent who needs to give up the keys. I think it would be helpful to come up with some guidelines to assist aging riders to judge their fitness for duty. If you have a nasty crash at age 68, is that a good indicator you are necking in on your riding career? Or will it take two crashes, or three crashes before you get the message that it's time to hang up your leathers? It's not just the pain and recuperation I'm thinking about, but the expense and bother to your family. Here in the USA, I'm covered by Medicare, but there are deductibles. A decent crash might cost me $8,000. When I had to be evacuated by air from my crash in the California desert, the original bill was $38,000, just for the 40 minute helicopter ride. Fortunately, Medicare whacked that in half, and paid 80%. But running up big medical bills is definitely a bigger concern when I hop on a motorcycle than when I'm hopping in the truck.

Into that discussion, we need to remember the role of prescription medications. Prior to my most recent crash, I had been on pain killers for a painful sciatic nerve, in addition to my usual diabetic meds. I have to believe that the optical illusions I was experiencing as the crash happened were a result of the medications. Perhaps I had to learn the hard way, but I'm now aware of the importance of really evaluating yourself prior to a ride. Maybe the ride should be scrubbed, or at least shortened. Definitely I should not have ridden with others who would set a more aggressive pace than I would have ridden on my own under the circumstances.

We might also wonder about the relationship between motorcycling and mental health. Brain researchers are beginning to understand that the aging brain doesn't just lose capacity, although it typically loses processing speed. What's most important is that not being mentally challenged by problems allows the brain to lose thinking capacity. And motorcycling is definitely an activity that requires lots of thinking--both conscious and subconscious. Maybe that old saying is right, after all: "You don't give up motorcycling because you grow old, you grow old when you give up motorcycling."

Speaking for myself, carrying on dialogue such as this helps me keep my brain working.

One of the responses to your aging blog referred to "crossing the bridge when I come to it." That assumes that the aging process is like a road, and the bridge is a decision point, although a bridge is really just a means to zip on across a chasm with impunity. I think it's a natural reaction of younger people to be fearful of addressing the future, not only because it's uncomfortable, but because it’s such an unknown.

I think that attitude is a parallel to motorcycling, where in our youth we tend to throw caution to the wind, and as we grow older we can't avoid remembering all the pitfalls we've seen along the way. The young rider doesn't want to think about the risks. I suspect the issue of aging is like any other--we tend to go into denial when it gets uncomfortable. Let's see, what are the steps of denial? It won't happen to me. If it does happen to me it won't be as bad as they say...etc.

Please do keep up the pressure on this issue. I think we can glean some great ideas from the dialogue. The naysayers are just as important as those who nod sagely.

Several years ago a friend and I were strolling around the grounds of the BMWMOA International rally, pondering what might happen in our motorcycling futures. I asked if there was anything "wrong" with transporting a smaller or older machine to the rally, to provide an opportunity to rub elbows with fellow owners. IOW, would the experience of sharing the passion be just as much fun as actually riding a bike cross country?

Several years later, I found myself in distress just weeks before my scheduled departure for a rally in Wisconsin, give or take 2,500 miles away. My left ankle had gone south (plantar fasciitis or whatever). I could barely hobble around, let alone shift the transmission a few thousand times. Finally, I ended up loading the sidecar outfit on a trailer, and towing it behind the Toyota 4Runner (auto trans). During the several day journey I had lots of time to think about the situation. Basically, I decided that whether riding or driving, I was no longer up to the challenge of traveling thousands of miles to a rally. Too much money, too much time, too much fuel consumed, too much effort...The purpose of the rig was to allow me to travel long distances, so its services were no longer needed. I ended up donating the sidecar rig to the MOA Foundation, to raise money for safety projects, and towing the empty trailer home. I figured the K1/EZS outfit had been paid for by royalties from my book, so it was appropriate to give it back to the enthusiasts.

It used to be that I worried more about the machine failing than myself. Now I'm more concerned about myself than the machine. One of my reasons for getting the paddle-shift Spyder was to allow driving it even if my shifter ankle went out. There's a laugh in this. I haven't had any debilitating ankle problems since buying it. And I'm aware that my left thumb could stop working, or my back goes flooey, or whatever. Last summer (prior to my Triple R crash) I had agreed to attend a BMW rally in eastern Oregon. Then because of sciatica, I just couldn't travel at all. I reluctantly had to cancel my seminars. The decaying of my body is prompting me to not agree to be a guest speaker anywhere. I'm trying to resolve this, maybe by agreeing to appear, knowing I might have to cancel (as I did with the OR rally) I suppose as long as they want me to appear, I should continue to make plans, figuring out ways to politely cancel.

Maybe I should encourage the event to have a computer and Skype connection handy, as a fallback plan.

[Ocean1]

Interesting observation about the Syder's limitations on NZ roads. I'd agree, mine was a handfull if you pushed it in the twisties.

Might be another one, one day...

[Brian d marge]

have 3 engines for my Enfield

I need one more frame

and when Im too old and on me last legs , Ill buy an AVL engine with the starter motor


Stephen

[SPman]

Interesting thread. I find, as I get older , my reflexes are slowing slightly, and I'm aware that it's easier to really hurt yourself if you go down - as your age goes up, your survivability chances go down. I'm now riding an "upright" bike, although I still wrap and shoehorn myself onto an RG250 occasionally and it's a ball! I'd still like another 750!
Otherwise - no plans - just take it as it comes. I guess if it all gets to onerous in (far) future years, something like a Piaggio MP3 400 would do the trick.......

[slofox]

When they take me bike license away and I'm relegated to the mobility scooter brigade, my project will be to soup up the mob scoot as far as I can. If I can't graft the gixxer engine into it, I'll look at changing the electric to something ..."interesting" shall we say...

Many years ago, my old aunt was severely crippled with arthritis. There were no electric mobility scooters then (it was the olden days y'know) but she did find a motorized wheelchair thingy - three wheeler powered by some kind of motorcycle engine. It was pretty much enclosed - she kinda sat back in it and I think it was steered by a single stick but I could be wrong on that bit...

Anyhoo, she lived in Christchurch and she quickly developed a "working relationship" with the local constabulary...essentially, they wanted to kick her off the road because she went like hell in it and frightened livestock and little children on a regular basis. In other words, she was a crazed triker when she was in it. She was regularly apprehended for exceeding the speed limit but could not be ticketed because I don't think it had to be licensed in any way IIRC. She also tipped it over on a regular basis and usually had to just lie there until some kind soul came and picked her up again. She was crazy - a mad bat out of hell. But only in that chair...

Pity they don't have those any more...more fun than an electric I bet...

[Ocean1]

She was crazy - a mad bat out of hell. But only in that chair...

Love it. :killingme



When they take me bike license away and I'm relegated to the mobility scooter brigade, my project will be to soup up the mob scoot as far as I can. If I can't graft the gixxer engine into it, I'll look at changing the electric to something ..."interesting" shall we say...

I’ve got a 4 bolt smallblock and a 9” diff squirreled away against the day. :banana:

[Redmoggy]

Im 33 and i had trouble reading Davids post written in blue against the black!
Since getting hit head on by a truck riding the Sprint to work,i have decided to stick to riding my 60's Trumpets and i doubt i will use my old piss pot hat again. Thats as far as my planning goes.

[MSTRS]

The Kiwi Biker NZ comments were perhaps the more mentally mature--

Well aint that a turn up for the books?

[Blackbird]

Im 33 and i had trouble reading Davids post written in blue against the black!


Sincere apologies - I'm a Light Universe user :facepalm: Tend to forget about the Dark Side :innocent:


Well aint that a turn up for the books?

Errr... yes! Maybe it's because the squids on the forum didn't post because they hadn't an effing clue what it it was all about. Still, it hasn't stopped them before :yes:

[MSTRS]

Errr... yes! Maybe it's because the squids on the forum didn't post because they hadn't an effing clue what it it was all about. Still, it hasn't stopped them before :yes:

Maybe they just saw the thread title and thought 'Nothing to see here...only for old farts' ?

[superman]

Im 33 and i had trouble reading Davids post written in blue against the black!

You highlight the writing to read it as highlighting always produces contrasting background to font. Can even read white font on white pages for when people are sneaking in some fine print that seems to be invisible... :yes:

[Daffyd]

As one due to enter my 70th year in 10 days I should ad my 2c worth.

My circumstances are somewhat different to most of the other posters, in that I have been riding for a relatively short time. Ok, I had a Yamha YB100 20 years ago purely for going to work, but that doesn't really count. I started riding seriously, (for fun), at the end of 2006. Since then I have acquired 46 badges, mostly rallies but the odd Easter egg run/Toy run etc.

I decided from the outset that I would not buy a bike that was too big, heavy, fast, or whatever. I began with a Yamaha SRX 400, then a Yamaha XV535, and now a BMW 650 CS. Who knows what next?

I think the Scarver will do quite nicely for my needs, but my thoughts constantly stray to a possible replacement. What if I can no longer hold a bike up easily? My thoughts are, Spyder, (prolly couldn't afford one), MP3, (possibly also too expensive), or maybe chuck it all in and go for an MX5.

I dunno, guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Blackbird]

As one due to enter my 70th year in 10 days I should ad my 2c worth.

..... or maybe chuck it all in and go for an MX5.

Well congrats in 10 days time Daffyd! You make me feel positively youthful:innocent:

You've clearly thought hard (and well) about your choices and that's great, thanks so much for the insights.

My wife bought her first MX5 (a Mk1) by way of celebration when the last of our kids left home. For her 60th birthday, I bought her a flawless Mk2 which we imported directly from Japan. It was the metallic Merlot colour and cream leather seats that attracted her, but it was all the MazdaSpeed extras that floated my boat :yes:. You don't need to go fast to have a lot of fun, especially in the twisty Coromandel where we live!

[Daffyd]

Sweet! And as I live on the Southern Scenic Route in The Catlins it would be the ideal mount!
If your wife ever wants to sell it...

[Blackbird]

Sweet! And as I live on the Southern Scenic Route in The Catlins it would be the ideal mount!
If your wife ever wants to sell it...

She'd sell me first....:angry:

[raftn]

She'd sell me first....:angry:

She would probably get more for the MX5.........hahah!!! ( Love a good wind up)

[Rosso]

Hi Geoff , sorry I've missed you on the last few trips to Coro, .
I really enjoyed this thread better than the usual guff on the site ,
wonderful to hear from all those like minded "older riders " still hanging onto the fun and freedom the bike gives you. Haa I'm 68 this year and had to drop back to my old favourite C50T , Done the Triumph Thunderbird and the Heritage harley bit and I think i found the bike that will see me threw ??? Maybeee!
Off too Cape Reinga this weekend ...
Keep the Shiny side up on that speed machine of yours

[Blackbird]

She would probably get more for the MX5.........hahah!!! ( Love a good wind up)

Ain't that the truth Roger:facepalm:


Hi Geoff , sorry I've missed you on the last few trips to Coro, .
I really enjoyed this thread better than the usual guff on the site ,
wonderful to hear from all those like minded "older riders " still hanging onto the fun and freedom the bike gives you. Haa I'm 68 this year and had to drop back to my old favourite C50T , Done the Triumph Thunderbird and the Heritage harley bit and I think i found the bike that will see me threw ??? Maybeee!
Off too Cape Reinga this weekend ...
Keep the Shiny side up on that speed machine of yours

Hi Rosso:drinkup:
Good to see that you're still trucking on mate! Have a fantastic run to the Cape now it's all sealed and say hi to Don and Nick if you're riding with them! Safe riding pal.

[vifferman]

I have arthritis in the shoulders which sometimes becomes painful after only a few minutes. It isn't actually continual, rather more like frequent. Since I'm about to depart on a ten day tour of the South Island I have obtained a prescription for anti-inflammatories (sp?) and will also carry a common pain killer.
Sucks, eh? :blink:
I'm 52, and have had arthritis for about 9 years, I guess. It affects all my joints, and it's not too bad, but does mean that riding for more'n about an hour is literally a pain. I usually take some ibuprofen before a ride just to take the edge off.
The vifferbabe just recently started riding with me again, and she hates long uninterrupted spells on the pillion anyway, so all things considered, it should actually work out OK.

On the up side, having my shoulder wrecked as a side-effect of open-heart surgery last year means I'm currently fitter than I have been for a long time, courtesy of nearly 8 months of physio (ends next week). The last few weeks have been gym-based, and I've been pushed (and am pushing myself) quite hard to get my left arm's strength back. As of the last session, I've had to start giving my right arm some serious work too, as it was slightly weaker on some exercises!

[Okey Dokey]

Interesting hearing the comments about the spyder's rideability. I thought they would handle better than the average trike? Anyway, I hope it is a long way down the track before I have to put it to the test... Still, I would feel like I was still biking as opposed to driving on one of those.

I think the "mental" side of aging for me, as a female, is somewhat easier as I've never felt driven by testosterone to be fast. Nothing to prove, and I don't mind if I am the slowest. My bike probably hates it, however!

[Ocean1]

Interesting hearing the comments about the spyder's rideability. I thought they would handle better than the average trike?

Different planet. The average trike is slightly more stable than a unicycle, a spyder is almost impossible to upset. What I meant is they're hard work in the tight stuff, as in physically demanding. Not only does it take a bit of upper body grunt to steer but you have to lean into the corners too. No you don't do that on a motorcycle.

For commuting they'd be a waste of time, I don't think they're a good substitute for a sprotsbike, for the reasons above, but they're hard to beat as a tourier. And they're half the price they were introduced at.

[Okey Dokey]

Thanks for that clarification, Ocean1 :) This has been an interesting thread.

[Blackbird]

Have a look at my follow-up: http://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2011/02/ageing-motorcyclists-follow-up.html

A fellow bike blogger from Australia has given me links to 2 excellent radio transcripts on the ageing process which I found really valuable - worth reading. The concept of "exceptional ageing" is indeed food for thought, especially for us older bastards who are nearly there:innocent:

[Swoop]

One thing of surprise has been a few ages appearing that did not appear to relate to the user. Pritch, for example, surprised - probably due to the Rossi avatar!

You are all inspiring in one way or another.

"I can putt along at the speed limit, or even slower on a vacant road, listening to the birds, gawking at the farm animals, or just enjoying the smell of a freshly mown field."
I'm not too sure of this bit though... I can do that now!



soup up the mob scoot as far as I can. If I can't graft the gixxer engine into it...
A very good idea! Loud pipes fitted so that the others can hear ya??:woohoo:

[slofox]

A very good idea! Loud pipes fitted so that the others can hear ya??:woohoo:


Probably so I can hear it myself - so I know if it's running or not...

[Blackbird]

Just received a link to a video clip from fellow bike blogger "Tarsnakes" from Australia ( http://tarsnakes.blogspot.com/). If there's ever a video which epitomises riding bikes into advancing years, this is it:

http://www.tvkim.com/watch/741/kims-picks-what-do-people-live-for

OUTSTANDING

[Motu]

Just as well no young guys read this thread - there would be several more pages about their riding gear.It's a wonder they lived so long riding like that.

[Blackbird]

Hahaha - don't think they'd understand the sentiments :scooter:

[vifferman]

They seem to have the right idea!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vksdBSVAM6g

[Blackbird]

Same one Ian!:yes:

[ellipsis]

...dont look out that window, you may not like what you see..(denial)...just dropped off my sturdy old sportster in the city to my son who is fitting some new tyres for me...birthday present...he gave me his VTR 1000 to bring home for the weekend...I thought that was a birthday present in itself....only just 100ks+ from there to home...now I have a sore back , my arse is moulded to a different shape , my wrists feel like Ive just done a 1000ks on the Goldwing and I shit myself...not in fright , but in realising I was pedalling along at sometimes 160+ ks and having no idea of how I got there so damned fast and those brakes that scrub off 100ks in what seems like a nano-second...I still dont consider myself of an age to start reminiscing about what was...but I couldnt help thinking , on my way home, when I had half a second to think, that maybe Im too old for this type of machinery....bugger this thread...

[Blackbird]

Hahahahaha:clap::clap:

[vifferman]

Same one Ian!:yes:
I didn't read the whole thread - just saw that video on another forum. :facepalm:

[Blackbird]

There's another inspirational video about ageing bikers just shown on Australian TV, introduced by Wayne Gardner.

Here's the link: http://www.abc.net.au/austory/ and click on "On your bike"

[pritch]

One thing of surprise has been a few ages appearing that did not appear to relate to the user. Pritch, for example, surprised - probably due to the Rossi avatar.


There was no intention to mislead. I regard it as mine in so far as I took that photo. Now that Rossi has changed his kit there is a temptation to go back and update the pic... Expensive!

Afterthoughts on arthritis: I mentioned this to the Doc and he gave me a prescription prior to the trip.

Previous experience meant I held out no great hopes for the efficacy thereof but I received a pleasant surprise. There was some stiffness on some of the longer legs such as the 621k ride from Kaikoura over the Lewis Pass and back over Arthurs Pass to Geraldine. The pain though never intruded and there was no residual soreness in the evening after a ride. The elbow bent just fine thanks:drinkup:

[Blackbird]

Hahaha - that's why my old avatar was a photo of me on my drag bike in the late 60's:bleh:

I don't suffer from arthritis, but do have some discomfort from knee damage. Most times, it's not too bad and responds well to the odd Ibuprofen tablet. On the rare occasions when it really plays up, I'm between a rock and a hard place as the stronger diclofenac-based tablets give me an upset stomach. Not a good thing to have when dressed in full leathers :rolleyes:

[Swoop]

There was no intention to mislead.
:rofl:
I realise. Just a pleasant surprise to find a mature rider when I thought it may have been someone a bit younger!
Nice photo as well!!