Police say had the rider been wearing... [Archive] - Page 2

PrincessBandit

7th February 2011, 16:23

Indicator, wheel turn, eyes in mirror staring behind (not ahead).... vehicle brake lights off hence vehicle about to move, (trucks are loud). ... anything else. Is that defensive riding.

PS I watch out for trucks a hell of a lot I HATE THEM !!!! Especially when the wheels feel bigger than me.

I think that most people on here would state that the ones to look out for the most are the ones who don't do any of those things - they just decide on the spur of the moment to turn and go the other way. There are still things to watch for and quite frankly, most vehicles about to do that (with no other particularly noticeable warning signs) at the very least slow down somewhat. I've never seen a U-turn executed from the initial forward traveling speed - not on a road anyway. Plus any vehicle which appears stationary at the side of the road should always be treated as a potentially about-to-move object.

tri boy

7th February 2011, 16:25

Seriously, you guys really need to get a grip.

Now theres something I'm positive you know heaps about.

PrincessBandit

7th February 2011, 16:29

So I'm looking at importing one of these:

<img src=http://www.rideicon.com/showImage.jsp?class_id=12227&image_type=fullsize&rank=100>

And I'll up you this gorgeous sexy number (wouldn't mind it myself if I had a bit of spare moolah)...231276

Katman

7th February 2011, 16:30

What ever would make you think your original comment, right or wrong, is in any way appropriate given someone lost their life and maybe that persons family and/or friends might be reading what is posted here?

I can only assume you mean this post..........

I don't need a hi-viz.

I ride with my eyes open.

.......which was a direct response to this post.........

You got your hi-viz on Steve?

.........in which I'm saying that I rely on my eyes being open rather than relying on others having theirs open.

If you or anyone else took offence to that comment then you seriously need to harden the fuck up.

Smifffy

7th February 2011, 16:31

MAG-NZ have addressed it by sending out a Nationwide press release to all areas of the media.

I'd call that a good start, I wouldn't call it addressed.

PrincessBandit

7th February 2011, 16:36

I'm going with 'Kat Nebula'

"The Kat Planet is inhabited by super powered alien kats or Catnipians. Some of their powers are monster roars, super strength, and acid spit (Rumor has it that the Kat Planet is also called Planet Catnip). Kat is an alien cyborg that lived the Kat Planet but lives on Earth."

Gosh, for a moment I thought I was in the school yard; then I remembered that all this is coming from "adult" men...I am finding this most entertaining, more so because of who the contributors are.

Maha

7th February 2011, 16:39

I think that most people on here would state that the ones to look out for the most are the ones who don't do any of those things - they just decide on the spur of the moment to turn and go the other way. There are still things to watch for and quite frankly, most vehicles about to do that (with no other particularly noticeable warning signs) at the very least slow down somewhat. I've never seen a U-turn executed from the initial forward traveling speed - not on a road anyway. Plus any vehicle which appears stationary at the side of the road should always be treated as a potentially about-to-move object.

Right on the money PB, had that very scenario today, truck about 200mts ahead of stopped on the left hand shoulder with left indicater going, about 100 mts away, right indicater goes on and he pulls out, he could see me but he pulled out anyway. No problem, I was watching him. Must have been a ex Auckland bus driver.
30 minutes later, I was sitting at the lights in town. They were red as was the left turning arrow. I was waiting to turn right, a car was waiting to turn left and a bike rode up between the two of us and went left anyway. Yes! through the red light. Point is, there are careless people in control of all types of vehicles and its up to each and everyone of to be vigilant for our own safety.

Nonbeliever

7th February 2011, 16:40

katman, pack up your shitty old piece of crap and fuck the hell off back to your pathetic little world.
Youre a fucking retard and a clueless rider

Maha

7th February 2011, 16:47

I'd call that a good start, I wouldn't call it addressed.

True/correct, but then, I am only the events guy within MAG.
And thats all I know at this stage.
I am sure the inbox will have waiting replies, MAG pres is not home from work yet.
I have seen the MAG VP looking at this today.

R-Soul

7th February 2011, 16:48

If people can't see a big-arsed railway locomotive with a big-arsed headlight (or two) and on a fixed track how the hell are we motorcyclists ever going to be seen consistantly????:blink:

That IS a good point... and there have been about three accidents like that in the last few months!
Put that way, we basically have NO chance BUT our own wits. The quicker we focus on developing the old spidey sense, the better. We just cannot afford to rely on even substandard road skills from others.

And unfortunately, even with the highest developed spidey sense, there will be circumstances where there is nothing you can do/could have done. Thats not to say that you shouldn't try though. There WILL be casualties. The quicker we start looking for thd small things that could possibly indicate irrational behaviour (like Katman says), and paying FULL attention, the better.

There should be more threads about what small things to look out for. We should be passing the experience down without having to actually experience it yourself. If you narrowly escaped a fuck up, let us know HOW. if you didn't escape a fuck up, let us know WHY. Dont let ego stand in the way....

Tink

7th February 2011, 16:48

katman, pack up your shitty old piece of crap and fuck the hell off back to your pathetic little world.
Youre a fucking retard and a clueless rider

I tend to disagree, but heh that is my opinion, and my right... WHY all the swearing...oh ye its a kber's right to name call, something called "sticks and stones will break my bones, words will never hurt me".

Honestly why not have a intelligent debate with him, maybe even out do him with your intelligence.

RIP to the biker down in my home town! I lived 2 min from where he came down....and there is accident after accident there.... 1 lane bridge each way....to 4 lanes.... its a blind spot, a bad spot.....a nutter set of lights, 50km over bridge, to 70km just after.... and they are still widening the road further on.... I have seen children in hospital from our school on that road.... ! :(

Nonbeliever

7th February 2011, 16:51

, maybe even out do him with your intelligence.

I wouldnt waste the effort

R-Soul

7th February 2011, 16:54

and of course a hi - vis vest will make a lot of difference to them...

Having worn a hi vis vest daily in auckland traffic, I can assure you it makes no difference at all.
Geoff

The thing about hi-viz vests is that if they have been working, you will never know....

And they are so purdy... :eek:

FJRider

7th February 2011, 16:56

There should be more threads about what small things to look out for.

For starters ... the assumption that just because we have right-of-way ... does not mean we'll GET it ...

PrincessBandit

7th February 2011, 17:01

I wouldnt waste the effort

I think if you had a f2f with him you would be surprised at how smart he is, and many a kb'er who has met him has modified the way they think about him.

The thing is he calls a spade a spade and doesn't humour fools - a lot of folk don't like that.

Nonbeliever

7th February 2011, 17:03

Maha

7th February 2011, 17:03

Personally I wont wear one unless I am involved with something where I have no choice. I had to wear a pink one last year for a few hours.
And I have worn them where there has been a MAG ride.
Anne may wear one at night (which is where they come into thier own) if she is a pillion. I dont need one at the front.

Maha

7th February 2011, 17:06

I think if you had a f2f with him you would be surprised at how smart he is, and many a kb'er who has met him has modified the way they think about him.

The thing is he calls a spade a spade and doesn't humour fools - a lot of folk don't like that.

That is true PB, there are those that cause him halm and when they finally met, they shake hands, have a beer and a smoke instead, crazy .....:facepalm:

Viscount Montgomery

7th February 2011, 17:11

The only stupidity in here that I can see is people suggesting that there are absolutely no clues to be had when a vehicle is about to perform a u-turn.

All these fuckers here claiming "U-turns" are some sort of bolt from the blue that happens at speeds you can't avoid are SO full of shit. A U-turning vehicle starts from a stationary position. Or at the very most no more than, say, 10 kph. Especially a fucken truck. Vehicles don't U-turn at 100 kph or even at 30kph. Unless it's some boy-racer shithead fleeing the cops or some shit like that. All the dumb fucks here aren't even thinking about what a U-turn involves.. All this sort of crap should be ringing a bikers alarm bells well ahead of it happening. A slow, crawling, or stationary vehicle on the side of the road is a lethal fucken trap for the clueless and the unwary. So many cunts ride around oblivious to what the fuck is happening right in front of their own dim-witted fucken eyes.

A VEHICLE ABOUT TO U-TURN ACROSS THE FUCKEN ROAD IN FRONT OF YOU IS STICKING OUT LIKE GODDAM DOG BALLS FROM THE MOMENT YOU SLAP EYES ON THE FUCKEN THING.

I'm not blaming no cunt about this accident though, because me and everyone else don't know a fucken thing about what exactly went down. It all seems a fucken mystery to me. Who the fuck says it was a U-turn anyway?

Now, if some arsehole is U-turning around a blind corner, that's another story alltogether. THEN that's a total fucking recipe for disaster and ain't no excuses there. That's plain and simple manslaughter from the cunt doing the U'ey . But yet again if a bikers hooning round a corner blindly expecting everything around the bend to be all A OK then they're lacking awareness in a big big way.

There's so many clueless fuckers on motorbikes it's not funny and that goes for fuckwits on four wheels also. And why the fuck is it that I've been riding the roads thousands of K's per year for 40 fucken years incident free (touch wood) (apart from hitting a cow and a horse) and yet there's all these shitloads and shitloads of bikers coming to grief in traffic on a consistent basis? Like I say, it's all a fucken mystery to me.

Ocean1

7th February 2011, 17:14

So I'm looking at importing one of these:

Looks like a well made bit of gear. Not sure I could keep me lunch down if I caught a glimpse of my reflection in a window...

I like my Buffalo Endurance jacket. It's black. It has fluorescent black trim. It does!

NONONO

7th February 2011, 17:17

Bad timing' as police cars collide
GILES BROWN
Last updated 05:00 07/02/2011
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KIRK HARGREAVES
SMASH: A late model Honda police car involved in a collision with a police vehicle.
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Two police cars were damaged when a police officer drove through a red light and his vehicle hit another patrol car in Christchurch.

Canterbury road policing manager Inspector Al Stewart said a marked police car was driving east along Bealey Ave carrying a woman from a domestic dispute when the accident happened about 6.20am yesterday.

The woman was in the back seat with another officer when she distracted the driver as he approached the traffic lights at the Colombo St intersection.

"Due to being distracted by the offender, the driver of the car has gone through a red light," Stewart said.

The car hit an unmarked police car that was heading south on Colombo St.

The driver of the marked car suffered bruising, but no-one else was hurt.

"The initial indication is that speed isn't an issue and that both were travelling under the speed limit.

"It's difficult at times when you are dealing with someone like that not to get distracted and it's just a matter of bad timing," Stewart said.

Oh my...wonder if that could have been avoided?....and I'm sure they were wearing nice bright hi vis vests...:scooter:

Crasherfromwayback

7th February 2011, 17:22

Elysium

7th February 2011, 17:24

Lots of angst.

Whoa, chill mate.

Drew

7th February 2011, 17:33

All these fuckers here claiming "U-turns" are some sort of bolt from the blue that happens at speeds you can't avoid are SO full of shit. A U-turning vehicle starts from a stationary position. Or at the very most no more than, say, 10 kph. Especially a fucken truck. Vehicles don't U-turn at 100 kph or even at 30kph. Unless it's some boy-racer shithead fleeing the cops or some shit like that. All the dumb fucks here aren't even thinking about what a U-turn involves.. All this sort of crap should be ringing a bikers alarm bells well ahead of it happening. A slow, crawling, or stationary vehicle on the side of the road is a lethal fucken trap for the clueless and the unwary. So many cunts ride around oblivious to what the fuck is happening right in front of their own dim-witted fucken eyes.

A VEHICLE ABOUT TO U-TURN ACROSS THE FUCKEN ROAD IN FRONT OF YOU IS STICKING OUT LIKE GODDAM DOG BALLS FROM THE MOMENT YOU SLAP EYES ON THE FUCKEN THING.

I'm not blaming no cunt about this accident though, because me and everyone else don't know a fucken thing about what exactly went down. It all seems a fucken mystery to me. Who the fuck says it was a U-turn anyway?

Now, if some arsehole is U-turning around a blind corner, that's another story alltogether. THEN that's a total fucking recipe for disaster and ain't no excuses there. That's plain and simple manslaughter from the cunt doing the U'ey . But yet again if a bikers hooning round a corner blindly expecting everything around the bend to be all A OK then they're lacking awareness in a big big way.

There's so many clueless fuckers on motorbikes it's not funny and that goes for fuckwits on four wheels also. And why the fuck is it that I've been riding the roads thousands of K's per year for 40 fucken years incident free (touch wood) (apart from hitting a cow and a horse) and yet there's all these shitloads and shitloads of bikers coming to grief in traffic on a consistent basis? Like I say, it's all a fucken mystery to me.

I think this post should have more use of the word 'fuck'!

Viscount Montgomery

7th February 2011, 18:44

You're cooler than cool then! Hell....one of the u turners that took me out indicated left, pulled over to the left, and as I went past swung round right into the side of me. So to avoid that...you of course being so fucking shit hot would've stopped in the middle of the fucken road to see what she was going to do next right? And got rear ended. What a fucking load of shit you've spat out. And it's a pity you couldn't be that shit hot when it came to animals on the road then eh...they're called accidents fuckhead. Sometimes they can't be avoided by us...even though we're NOT at fault.

You wanna call me names huh? I remember you you jumped-up prat. You're the snot-gobbler who thinks you're some sort of hero aren't you? "crasherfromwayback" What a fucken wanker. You're full of shit. If some ditzy stupid bitch indicates to the left and pulls over out the blue then you should of put your stupid brain into gear dickhead. So there was vehicles up your arse and there were vehicles on-coming in the other lane at the same time and you were pinned in with nowhere to go huh? BULLSHIT. Since when does even a ditzy brainless cager swerve out into two lanes of fast moving traffic? You're sitting there at your computer telling lies aresehole. If the bitch didn't see your bike (my my what a surprise) Bet you were in her blind spot and bet you there was no car up your arse and bet you there was no cars within cooee in the other lane. Again, you're full of shit. Learn your lesson did ya dimwit?

tri boy

7th February 2011, 18:56

Under profile.
"Viscount has not made any friends yet":killingme

Kickaha

7th February 2011, 18:57

Under profile.
"Viscount has not made any friends yet":killingme

He could give Katman lessons on PR :facepalm:

Crasherfromwayback

7th February 2011, 19:00

You wanna call me names huh? I remember you you jumped-up prat. You're the snot-gobbler who thinks you're some sort of hero aren't you? "crasherfromwayback" What a fucken wanker. You're full of shit. If some ditzy stupid bitch indicates to the left and pulls over out the blue then you should of put your stupid brain into gear dickhead. So there was vehicles up your arse and there were vehicles on-coming in the other lane at the same time and you were pinned in with nowhere to go huh? BULLSHIT. Since when does even a ditzy brainless cager swerve out into two lanes of fast moving traffic? You're sitting there at your computer telling lies aresehole. If the bitch didn't see your bike (my my what a surprise) Bet you were in her blind spot and bet you there was no car up your arse and bet you there was no cars within cooee in the other lane. Again, you're full of shit. Learn your lesson did ya dimwit?

Smoke a bit of meth do ya? FYI, she obviously wasn't looking what was behind her, else she wouldn't have done the u turn Einstein. It could've been a fucking Mack truck and she would've done the same move. Just like some people drive in front of a train. And just when did I say there was no one coming the other way? There wasn't, and it's just as well. But regardless...that accident was unavoidable, unless you take her out of the equation. Tell us all how you managed to hit not one...but two animals seeing as you're so fucking God like eh? I'd love you to teach me how to ride a motorcycle. Because I obviously have no idea!

pete376403

7th February 2011, 19:03

Anne may wear one at night (which is where they come into thier own) if she is a pillion. I dont need one at the front.

Hi Vis (ie the flourescent yellow / orange / green ) ON ITS OWN, isn't going to do much for you at night. Reflective strips, which not all hi-vis vests or jackets have, will help a lot.

Mom

7th February 2011, 19:08

And why the fuck is it that I've been riding the roads thousands of K's per year for 40 fucken years incident free (touch wood) (apart from hitting a cow and a horse) and yet there's all these shitloads and shitloads of bikers coming to grief in traffic on a consistent basis? Like I say, it's all a fucken mystery to me.

It should not be a mystery to you though. I can meet your effort, I have never hit anything on the road (apart fromt he odd suicidal bird). I have been riding for almost 40 years. I had my first off on the road last Labour weekend, completely my own stupid fault and fully avoidable had I really considered my options in advance. I managed to highside off my bike when my front wheel made contact with some fine metal, while I was leaned over, on an off camber, right hand turn, at about 20kph. Instant down, no harm to me, the poor BB looked a bit 2nd hand and I scared the shit out of a couple in a campervan that I went down directly and unexpectedly in front of :pinch:

Please lets not forget the reason this thread was started...

TV3 screened a report about a biker fatality where a "truck" alledgedly did a U-turn into the rider. Plod were on camera (and I personally dont care if it was an off the cuff comment) saying that perhaps had the biker worn a hi-viz vest the "truck" driver may have seen him. So, he would not have ben killed by the negligence of another road user had he worn a hi-viz vest? Completely out of order, I hope the copper concerned is chastigated for making a comment like that to TV3.

I am intrigued that the item no longer features on their website, I wonder if the complaints received may have caused that to happen?

Mom

7th February 2011, 19:11

Hi Vis (ie the flourescent yellow / orange / green ) ON ITS OWN, isn't going to do much for you at night. Reflective strips, which not all hi-vis vests or jackets have, will help a lot.

Reflective stripes are fantastic at night, they light up like a Christmas Tree and then some. At least enough for the average blind car driver to wonder WTF they are following anyway.

Every man and his friggen dog wear fluro shit, it is so common as to be ignored as a road cone or a road worker (stationary objects).

Drew

7th February 2011, 19:12

This shit just got good again.

You are really being a fuckwit viscount.

Crasherfromwayback is not kerry Dukie!

Ocean1

7th February 2011, 19:16

or a road worker (stationary objects).

They don't do much up your way either eh?

Crasherfromwayback

7th February 2011, 19:24

You are really being a fuckwit viscount.

No he isn't Drew. He's simply telling me I think I'm a fucking hero in one sentence, then telling us all what a fucking hero he is in the previous rant! In between drags on his crack pipe of course. He is (obviously) one of those lucky motorcycling Gods that has never made a mistake...is better than perfect, and will never be taken out by an unforseen act of stupidity of another road user. Wish I was him.

Elysium

7th February 2011, 19:28

"In a perfect world...."

-ANZ

Katman

7th February 2011, 19:29

Wish I was him.

Try harder then.

Mom

7th February 2011, 19:38

they pulled it from the website last night mate. :gob:
I'd like to think they did it because they realised that they had gone over the top with their piss poor slanted sensationalism. Using the unfortunate death of someone to push a political viewpoint:angry:
But a more likely answer is they broke the rubber band in their propaganda machine.:shit:

I'd call that a good start, I wouldn't call it addressed.

True/correct, but then, I am only the events guy within MAG.
And thats all I know at this stage.
I am sure the inbox will have waiting replies, MAG pres is not home from work yet.
I have seen the MAG VP looking at this today.

I copy a reply I have sent out regarding the press release issued last night...

I really wish I had saved the link to the TV3 news story last night, though it appears it would not matter if I had, it is not available on their website. It was a news item where the police officer interviewed said that perhaps had the biker worn a H-Viz Vest the truck driver would have seen him.

A motorcycle rider is dead, allegedly because another vehicle did an unexpecetd u-turn into his path, and it is reported that Hi-Viz may have made the difference to him being seen, therefore still alive. Thin end of the wedge as far as we are concerned. Stupid comment to make without a full investigation, stupid comment to make without the proof. If that driver had actually LOOKED he would have seen the bike - there has been no mention of speed involved.

Is this the next draconian measure to assist the legal and legitimate biker rider in this country off the road? Talk about being marginalised. We ride a legitimate form of transport that is more eco friendly than a lot of cars out there. We lessen congestion, we pay our bills. Some of us have never claimed for ACC for a bike related injury yet we are all penalised for in a large part the poor driving skills of some of the people we share the road with.

pete376403

7th February 2011, 19:42

Reflective stripes are fantastic at night, they light up like a Christmas Tree and then some. At least enough for the average blind car driver to wonder WTF they are following anyway.

Pics taken in the same minute - only difference was the illumination.
Compulsory hi-viz = waste of time. Compulsory reflective = could be worth it, at night anyway.

Mom

7th February 2011, 19:51

I would hate the thought of anything more being made compulsory for us to do to attempt to avoid being taken out by other road users or own stupidity. I would hope that education will be the key...

steve_t

7th February 2011, 19:51

Pics taken in the same minute - only difference was the illumination.
Compulsory hi-viz = waste of time. Compulsory reflective = could be worth it, at night anyway.

Holy shit. Those tiny little strips of 3M reflective piping are amazing!

Mungatoke Mad

7th February 2011, 20:00

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.NEWS FLASH Muppet's give no clues as to their intentions

Katman

7th February 2011, 20:01

NEWS FLASH Muppet's give no clues as to their intentions

Maybe muppets can't read clues.

PrincessBandit

7th February 2011, 20:06

Pics taken in the same minute - only difference was the illumination.
Compulsory hi-viz = waste of time. Compulsory reflective = could be worth it, at night anyway.

It's why I never removed the mildly dorky looking reflective patches from my RSR2 helmet. Even if my bike is not easily visible the floating shiny mini-ufo's sure are.

Crasherfromwayback

7th February 2011, 20:17

What a fucken wanker.

You're full of shit.

dickhead. BULLSHIT.

You're sitting there at your computer telling lies aresehole.

. Again, you're full of shit.

Learn your lesson did ya dimwit?

Recognise this quote?

"PS Cheer up the pair of you, life's way too short to be pissing your panties on internet forums"

You should do...it's yours. I had a quick look through your posts, and seriously...I think you need serious help, or different medication.

Johnny Sauce Pants

7th February 2011, 20:42

Maybe,

Bacon, was trying to minimise the blame on the U turn done by the truck driver and put responsibility on the motorcyclist because one of their lot did a U turn in front of some motorcyclists not too long ago which ended in disaster, from memory.

Didn't the plod concerned deny any wrong doing at the time and it had to be proven in the courts. Just a thought .

roadracingoldfart

7th February 2011, 21:23

Nice effort at twisting the story Jimmy. :facepalm:

I don't need a hi-viz.

I ride with my eyes open.

Vehicles don't pull u-turns without giving some clues as to their intention.

For a start, vehicles can't do u-turns without their front wheels pointing out to the right.

Perhaps you need to put some serious thought into how to multi-task.

Perhaps instead of pissing your panties, you lot should realise that the comment suggests the probable introduction of wearing hi-viz as law.

I'd prefer we all learned to really open our fucking eyes and turn our fucking brains on when we ride rather than being forced to wear hi-viz.

As you seem to be some kind of GOD for motorcycling i want to know why you didnt save the poor guy , you have an answer for everything.
I see you comments as a confirmation of being a total cock.
The original post was about the reporting and i agree its really bad press but you turn it into something really fucking biased towards safety. The poor guys safety was overlooked by a really bad driver action. Simple. Hi - Viz vests will not retrain a womble.

scumdog

7th February 2011, 22:52

The thing about hi-viz vests is that if they have been working, you will never know....

EVERYBODY knew that, right people? right?

I mean ya all knew the obvious eh?:blink:

Berries

7th February 2011, 23:09

Anne may wear one at night (which is where they come into thier own).
Steady on, there are children reading this swearfest. FFS.

jafar

8th February 2011, 04:43

TV3 news and reporters within received the press release from MAG yesterday afternoon/early evening.

Thats good:yes:

I copy a reply I have sent out regarding the press release issued last night...

I really wish I had saved the link to the TV3 news story last night, though it appears it would not matter if I had, it is not available on their website. It was a news item where the police officer interviewed said that perhaps had the biker worn a H-Viz Vest the truck driver would have seen him.

A motorcycle rider is dead, allegedly because another vehicle did an unexpecetd u-turn into his path, and it is reported that Hi-Viz may have made the difference to him being seen, therefore still alive. Thin end of the wedge as far as we are concerned. Stupid comment to make without a full investigation, stupid comment to make without the proof. If that driver had actually LOOKED he would have seen the bike - there has been no mention of speed involved.

Is this the next draconian measure to assist the legal and legitimate biker rider in this country off the road? Talk about being marginalised. We ride a legitimate form of transport that is more eco friendly than a lot of cars out there. We lessen congestion, we pay our bills. Some of us have never claimed for ACC for a bike related injury yet we are all penalised for in a large part the poor driving skills of some of the people we share the road with.

Has there been anything received from TV3 ??:corn:

Something that resembles an apology to the family of the deceased rider would be a good start !!:blink:

An apology for their pathetic attempt at sensationalism to the rest of us wouldn't go amis either. :mad:

As for the cops, I guess we are lucky they havn't put in there that speed or alcohol MAY have been a factor as they do in just about everything else...... Any excuse to get free advertising on their pet hobbyhorse. :angry:

jafar

8th February 2011, 04:57

Hi Vis (ie the flourescent yellow / orange / green ) ON ITS OWN, isn't going to do much for you at night. Reflective strips, which not all hi-vis vests or jackets have, will help a lot.

If you read the labels on the dayglo stuff it will tell you that the non reflector stuff is for daytime use only & then only if it is CLEAN:blink:

They do make both types & they are relatively cheap :whocares:

PrincessBandit

8th February 2011, 06:54

If you read the labels on the dayglo stuff it will tell you that the non reflector stuff is for daytime use only & then only if it is CLEAN:blink:

We're supposed to be clean as well???

Media rarely apologise to anyone, even if they're a well-known celebrity - Joe Nobody (to them, that is) would barely rate a second thought.

I'm sure the rider's family and friends and those of the truck driver will be rallying around them and while I don't mean to sound ungracious I'm sure our bickering and name calling on their behalf won't likely mean much to them.

RIP's from strangers can be meaningful, but if they read the rest of it who knows what they'd be feeling.

As for the Police, they'd be apologising every moment of the day if they had to for every unthoughful utterance that passed an officer's lips. Next thing, they won't say anything or pass any comment and the public will wonder what they're hiding...

Scuba_Steve

8th February 2011, 07:03

Media rarely apologise to anyone, even if they're a well-known celebrity - Joe Nobody (to them, that is) would barely rate a second thought.

And even when they do it's done in the form of a "passing comment".

phill-k

8th February 2011, 07:11

another unsubstantiated police comment regarding a 2 vehicle crash in CHCH yesterday morning as reported in the herald

Police believe that speed was NOT a factor in the crash, shame he didn't say something along the lines of but one of our officers has fucked up and gone through a red light through carelessness thankfully the vehicle he hit was not a motorcycle.

Interesting that the other vehicle was a mufti car perhaps if they had had high visibility sign writing the accident may have been avoided. :sick:

My apologies to all the serving and retired police officers on this forum for any harm I have caused but I just couldn't help my self :violin:

Crasherfromwayback

8th February 2011, 07:25

Katman

8th February 2011, 07:27

but you turn it into something really fucking biased towards safety.

And safety's for losers, right?

You surprise me - I'd always given you credit for having some degree of intelligence.

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 09:21

For starters ... the assumption that just because we have right-of-way ... does not mean we'll GET it ...

Exactly- it is incorrect and dangerous to even start off expecting rational behaviour from others.
So how do you go about looking for the clues that allow you to "mind read" others?

I have seen that many cars start moving over slightly to the side of a lane before they actually indicate (IF they indicate) to change lanes.

Another sign is them looking in their mirrors, or over their shoulder.

Another sign is the front wheel starting to extend out from the car body of a stationary car (like Katman says).

But you have to be looking for those signs for them to help. And yes, legally you dont have to, because its not your legal responsibility to think for others. But PRACTICALLY, you just cannot rely on others having a brain (apparently not even cops) - and I want to be around to walk my daughters down the aisle in 20 years time....

Katman

8th February 2011, 09:33

But you have to be looking for those signs for them to help.

(Just in case anyone missed it the first time).

MarkH

8th February 2011, 09:43

..a hi-viz vest, the accident may not have happened".

A motorcyclist was killed by a truck doing a U-turn today. The above quote is what I heard on 3 news.

I heard the same thing and instantly felt pissed off! WTFFF! (what the fuckety fuck fuck)
I think that if the rider had been wearing a hi-viz vest the accident would have most likely happened exactly the same and WTF is up with trying to push the blame on the dead victim?
I understand that the truck driver must be feeling absolutely horrible so saying "if the truck driver had exercised more care before doing a U-turn then the accident would NOT have happened" might have been rubbing a little salt into the drivers wounds - but it would have been a good message to put out there for all other drivers to think about.
I'd like to see the family of the motorcyclist put in a complaint about the comments the police officer made to the police - talk about horribly insensitive to the friends & family of the victim who lost his life in this tragic accident!

Unfortunately I understand that the popo man can't say that "The motorcyclist might have lived, had the truck driver been using due care and attention in the operation of his vehicle."

The reason the driver did not see the motorcyclist is a simple one. He did not look for a motorcycle.

The motorcycle was there to be seen.

Ex-fucking-zactly - I think that the blaming of the victim by the police officer (to the national media) was very reprehensible.

MAG-NZ are outraged that the NZ Police can issue a statement saying that had a motorcyclist killed today when a truck U-turned into his path, been wearing a Hi-Viz vest the truck driver may have seen him. The complete disregard for the family that has just lost a loved one is outrageous and the speculative comment about the lack of an item of clothing being the cause of his demise is nothing short of disgraceful.

How can any comment regarding the cause of a road death be made in such a bald way by our countries Police Force before the SCU have even had time to begin investigating the cause of the crash?

Has MAG-NZ made an official complaint to the police? Hopefully they have (I haven't finished reading this thread yet) but if not then could they consider doing so?

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 09:49

EVERYBODY knew that, right people? right?

I mean ya all knew the obvious eh?:blink:

It may seem obvious, but given the comments from some here...

(forgive me if that was supposed to be in sarcasm font -isn't there a sarcasm smiley?)

scumdog

8th February 2011, 10:01

Ex-fucking-zactly - I think that the blaming of the victim by the police officer (to the national media) was very reprehensible.

The cop BLAMED the rider??:blink::shutup:

My understanding of what was said is: "IF he HAD been wearing a hi-vis vest the truck driver MAY have seen him"

Hardly 'blaming' the rider.....

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 10:02

(Just in case anyone missed it the first time).

At the end of the day, accidents usually happen REALLY fast, and not everybody has superhuman reflexes or the presence of mind to react properly. Which is exactly why this type of defensive thinking and looking for clues must be ingrained in bikers to give them the most amount of time to react in. In this way I agree with your line of thought. BUT:

Going for the jugular and brutally pointing out the riders faults or lack of action(especially in cases where othe other rider was legally at fault) is just a bad time for most people, because they are feeling rather vulnerable and getting a strong sense of their mortality at that particular moment. Which is why you get "impassioned" responses to your comments.

Without wanting to be your PR manager, Katman: Perhaps instead of criticising the rider for "not doing" after the fact, rather be more positive/constructive in your language in suggesting possible things to look for in those situations. Be part of the solution- turn the tragedy into a learning experience at a time when others would be most willing to listen. I am sure that the deceased would have been happy to help others to not be in the same sutuation.

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 10:10

The cop BLAMED the rider??:blink::shutup:

My understanding of what was said is: "IF he HAD been wearing a hi-vis vest the truck driver MAY have seen him"

Hardly 'blaming' the rider.....

Its a tasteless implication. Like saying, after a truck has blown through a red traffic light at an intersection, taken out a few cars and and killed a mother and child walking across a green light, that you "should always look before you walk".

Legally the mother and child can expect to have other vehicles stop and their passage be safe over the road when they get a green light.

Its common sense for pedestrians to look yes, and a good general safety message in normal times. But implying that the truck driver actions were secondary to their deaths, and that their own actions were the main cause, is just tasteless- and very poor time for a police officer to get a mundane safety message across.

MarkH

8th February 2011, 10:12

What exactly is it that you think I'm preaching?

I wonder - are all the people that don't understand what you are preaching at fault or is it you that is at fault? Maybe you should consider whether your communications are to blame for the misunderstandings? Just like riding a motorcycle, don't assume that everything is always someone else's fault!

scumdog

8th February 2011, 10:13

and that their own actions were the main cause, is just tasteless-

Sorry, I never realised he said anything about the motorcyclist 'own actions were the main cause'.......

Katman

8th February 2011, 10:25

rather be more positive/constructive in your language in suggesting possible things to look for in those situations.

What, sort of like post #14?

I could phrase my posts in the most positive and helpful manner imaginable and it wouldn't make a dollop of shit's worth of difference to the fuckheads who refuse to read and understand the words but rather react simply to the name 'Katman'.

Bytor

8th February 2011, 10:25

Crasherfromwayback

8th February 2011, 10:28

but rather react simply to the name 'Katman'.

Don't flatter yourself.

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 10:37

I had a friend who had a white bike and a white helm, he could get cars to slow and pull over just by riding up behind them, why because he looked like a bike cop from the front.

I have a bright yellow jacket that I wear in the rain when commuting- it looks a lot like a cop's. And my helmet, while not being completely white, has many reflective stripes that light up in any kind of illumination. I have actually noticed that I get a lot more space and people moving over when filtering when wearing these.

I also believe that the reflective strips on the helmet makes me stand out as being a rider in the dark, and "frames" the headlight when looked at from the front in the dark - properly identifying it a as motorbike, and not just another cars left headlight. IMO the reflective strips also create confusing contrasts, making cars look twice. I have another idea for a spiralling pattern that should also catch their eyes.

Of course this only helps if the drivers actually LOOK.

231356231357231358

MarkH

8th February 2011, 10:41

The cop BLAMED the rider??:blink::shutup:

My understanding of what was said is: "IF he HAD been wearing a hi-vis vest the truck driver MAY have seen him"

Hardly 'blaming' the rider.....

He didn't say "the motorcycle rider was at fault" so no, he didn't blame the rider in the explicit sense. But what did his comment imply? After the motorcyclist had been killed in this incident the cop was suggesting that there was a deficiency on the part of them motorcyclist that may have made all the difference. My view is that it most probably would not have made a difference and that if the truck driver had followed the law then the motorcyclist DEFINITELY would not have been killed.

R-Soul was spot on with his reply.

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 10:45

Sorry, I never realised he said anything about the motorcyclist 'own actions were the main cause'.......

He did not- but his implications distracted the focus away from the main cause at a tasteless time.

gatch

8th February 2011, 10:46

Bit of a storm in a teacup here team..

What is important is that a dude has died. RIP that biker.

Spewing fire and brimstone at each other isn't going to solve any problems..

avgas

8th February 2011, 10:48

What were we arguing about again?

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 10:48

I don't need a hi-viz.

I ride with my eyes open.

Post #14 would be great if it weren't preceded by this one...

scumdog

8th February 2011, 10:51

He did not- but his implications distracted the focus away from the main cause at a tasteless time.

I didn't see it as tasteless - but then dealing with this sort of thing might make one a tad insensitive without being aware of it.

Whynot

8th February 2011, 10:57

What were we arguing about again?

Apparently lane splitting is illegal and the Maori party won the Wellington sevens.

Viscount Montgomery

8th February 2011, 11:13

I believe the rider killed was a prominent Head Hunter. So Katman and Viscount, let me know how you get on after you've been to their head quarters and told them what a dickhead their dead mate was eh!!??

You truly are a vindictive snivelly little toad aren't you? You started the one on one personal name calling ya wanker. Wassa matter, didn't like getting it shoved straight back at ya? Do you think me or anyone else give a rats arse that a shithead gang-member dies in a plume of blood and guts? When did I say the rider that killed was a dickhead? I don't know the circumstances of that crash and haven't blamed anyone for it ya weaselly word-twisting prat. You're the classic example of the wank wank wank high-and-mighty biker with the "everyone else is to blame but yourselves" attitude. You're also the exact type of retard that caused my rego to skyrocket to over 500 bucks a year. Bet you ride down the street perched on your plastic rocket staring at yourself in shop windows, yet, oh no, all the fucken accidents you're constantly involved in where all caused by "the other person" Get your head out of your arse.

BoristheBiter

8th February 2011, 11:13

I have a bright yellow jacket that I wear in the rain when commuting- it looks a lot like a cop's. And my helmet, while not being completely white, has many reflective stripes that light up in any kind of illumination. I have actually noticed that I get a lot more space and people moving over when filtering when wearing these.

I also believe that the reflective strips on the helmet makes me stand out as being a rider in the dark, and "frames" the headlight when looked at from the front in the dark - properly identifying it a as motorbike, and not just another cars left headlight. IMO the reflective strips also create confusing contrasts, making cars look twice. I have another idea for a spiralling pattern that should also catch their eyes.

Of course this only helps if the drivers actually LOOK.
]

Funny you should say that as when you filter past me on the motorway i notice your helmet first and think to myself " there goes R-soul".

Then try and run you off the road:bleh:

Katman

8th February 2011, 11:24

Post #14 would be great if it weren't preceded by this one...

Did you miss post #262?

miloking

8th February 2011, 11:33

The cop BLAMED the rider??:blink::shutup:

My understanding of what was said is: "IF he HAD been wearing a hi-vis vest the truck driver MAY have seen him"

Hardly 'blaming' the rider.....

thats actualy exact definition of blame!

....if "someone" did "something" the outcome would have been different...

BLAME
/bleɪm/
[bleym]
verb, blamed, blam·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to hold responsible; find fault with; censure: I don't blame you for leaving him.
2. to place the responsibility for (a fault, error, etc.) (usually followed by on ): I blame the accident on her.
3. Informal . blast; damn (used as a mild curse): Blame the rotten luck.

Ferkletastic

8th February 2011, 11:41

You truly are a vindictive snivelly little toad aren't you? You started the one on one personal name calling ya wanker. Wassa matter, didn't like getting it shoved straight back at ya? Do you think me or anyone else give a rats arse that a shithead gang-member dies in a plume of blood and guts? When did I say the rider that killed was a dickhead? I don't know the circumstances of that crash and haven't blamed anyone for it ya weaselly word-twisting prat. You're the classic example of the wank wank wank high-and-mighty biker with the "everyone else is to blame but yourselves" attitude. You're also the exact type of retard that caused my rego to skyrocket to over 500 bucks a year. Bet you ride down the street perched on your plastic rocket staring at yourself in shop windows, yet, oh no, all the fucken accidents you're constantly involved in where all caused by "the other person" Get your head out of your arse.

Man your writing borders on art. It's a thing of trully fucked up beauty.

scumdog

8th February 2011, 11:54

thats actualy exact definition of blame!

....if "someone" did "something" the outcome would have been different...

BLAME
/bleɪm/
[bleym]
verb, blamed, blam·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to hold responsible; find fault with; censure: I don't blame you for leaving him.
2. to place the responsibility for (a fault, error, etc.) (usually followed by on ): I blame the accident on her.
3. Informal . blast; damn (used as a mild curse): Blame the rotten luck.

Hmm, must check all miloking posts to see who he blames for his grumpy points of view....

Crasherfromwayback

8th February 2011, 12:04

Bet you ride down the street perched on your plastic rocket staring at yourself in shop windows, yet, oh no, all the fucken accidents you're constantly involved in where all caused by "the other person" Get your head out of your arse.

Nope. I watch out for cows and horses. So...exactly how did you hit those animals again God?

baptist

8th February 2011, 12:08

What were we arguing about again?

Can't remember... seems a lot of "debates" on KB turn into S#*t Fights, sad to see though when a rider has died. :(

And personally while I detest the idea of "gangs" it does not come into my thinking whether the rider was patched or not, someone died, that person had friends and family, people will be mourning, in shock and feeling angry and people should understand that, that does not just mean the cop on the news but all of us as well....

Whether the Cop was misquoted or was just unfeeling, the fact is the comment was, I feel, inappropriate, but so is talk of cops deserving a beating, good and bad apples everywhere remember.

avgas

8th February 2011, 12:10

Apparently lane splitting is illegal and the Maori party won the Wellington sevens.
Oh thank god.
I thought this thread had waving in it somewhere.

Guys can we calm down? All that happened here was some moron gang member had some kharma dealt his way. Nothing to lose you head over.

bistard

8th February 2011, 12:27

Crasherfromwayback

8th February 2011, 12:34

That is Fucking Gold!!!!

Instead of licking arse Barry...how 'bout you get off your arse and sell some bikes.

jasonu

8th February 2011, 13:13

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 13:16

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 13:18

Did you miss post #262?

LOL! Oh fuck off! I am not going to go chasing your bloody quotes around the show!
You know what I mean.

Maha

8th February 2011, 13:20

What were we arguing about again?

....it possibly had something to do with a cop saying a biker may have survived an impact with a truck that did a U turn in front of him had he been wearing a brightly coloured vest of sorts. But the footage of that ever being said has been removed so it morfed into Katman V the rest....the show must go on.

Fatt Max

8th February 2011, 13:28

Oohh I say, this thread is great fun,

Can I have a go please.....aww thanks, here we go, listen up...

Bums and poos and wees....

How was that, insulting enough, any good....??

Katman

8th February 2011, 13:29

....it possibly had something to do with a cop saying a biker may have survived an impact with a truck that did a U turn in front of him had he been wearing a brightly coloured vest of sorts.

Actually Mark, that's not what he said nor is it the meaning of what he said. (Remember - twisting words is what started this whole bitch fight).

Surviving the impact was never anything to do with the hi-viz comment - it was merely a suggestion that the driver may have had a better chance of seeing the motorcyclist.

BoristheBiter

8th February 2011, 13:43

Oohh I say, this thread is great fun,

Can I have a go please.....aww thanks, here we go, listen up...

Bums and poos and wees....

How was that, insulting enough, any good....??

No good. if you want abuse.

I have just eaten the last mince and cheese.

Maha

8th February 2011, 13:51

Actually Mark, that's not what he said nor is it the meaning of what he said. (Remember - twisting words is what started this whole bitch fight).

Surviving the impact was never anything to do with the hi-viz comment - it was merely a suggestion that the driver may have had a better chance of seeing the motorcyclist.

My point exactly Steve, I just wanted to know if anyone could remember what was actually said. I know what I posted was wrong, but it was delibrate.

Katman

8th February 2011, 13:57

My point exactly Steve, I just wanted to know if anyone could remember what was actually said. I know what I posted was wrong, but it was delibrate.

Maybe I'm the only one paying attention. :msn-wink:

avgas

8th February 2011, 14:11

Now that's a lot worse than Katmans post. He was somone's dad/husband.
Hopefully not.
Last thing we need is a family thinking its acceptable to be a (violent) gang member.

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 14:12

Funny you should say that as when you filter past me on the motorway i notice your helmet first and think to myself " there goes R-soul".

Then try and run you off the road:bleh:

So it was YOU this morning!!! :scooter:

Fatt Max

8th February 2011, 14:15

no good. If you want abuse.

I have just eaten the last mince and cheese.

bastard......!!!

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 14:18

Hopefully not.
Last thing we need is a family thinking its acceptable to be a (violent) gang member.

No that was a lot more disrespectful to his family than anything Katman said. Gang member or not, the guy was somebody's son.

Katman

8th February 2011, 14:23

No that was a lot more disrespectful to his family than anything Katman said.

Get fucked - nothing I've said has been disrespectful.

Anyone who thinks so is just a softcock.

saxet

8th February 2011, 14:25

Oh thank god.
I thought this thread had waving in it somewhere.

Guys can we calm down? All that happened here was some moron gang member had some kharma dealt his way. Nothing to lose you head over.

Not all gang members are morons.
In the same way that not all motorcyclists have a death wish.

Would your family be happy if you died in a bike accident only to hear a person say"motorcyclist... temporary NZedr anyway"

Though Katman might say that or at least imply it.

It seems many people expect respect without giving any.

Eyegasm

8th February 2011, 14:27

This is fun...

Whens the movie coming out?

:corn::corn::corn::corn:

avgas

8th February 2011, 14:33

No that was a lot more disrespectful to his family than anything Katman said. Gang member or not, the guy was somebody's son.
Just like these guys
http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/Data/database.htm

the fact he rode a motorbike will get 'bonus' sympathy from me.

avgas

8th February 2011, 14:38

Not all gang members are morons.
In the same way that not all motorcyclists have a death wish.

Would your family be happy if you died in a bike accident only to hear a person say"motorcyclist... temporary NZedr anyway"

Though Katman might say that or at least imply it.

It seems many people expect respect without giving any.
I had no idea how much respect you have for the gangs in NZ.

Now don't get me wrong - the fact he rode a motorbike is irrelevant to what I said. He could have died by heart attack while sitting on the toilet - I would have just as little respect for him.

The only non-morons gang members I know of are trying to get out.
Tuff titties to the rest of them. Why should I respect someone who doesn't respect anyone else????

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 14:43

Get fucked - nothing I've said has been disrespectful.

Anyone who thinks so is just a softcock.

FFS its not all about you. That was my whole point. You had not said anything disrespectful (maybe just hard-assed) compared to what he said.

saxet

8th February 2011, 14:46

I had no idea how much respect you have for the gangs in NZ.

Now don't get me wrong - the fact he rode a motorbike is irrelevant to what I said. He could have died by heart attack while sitting on the toilet - I would have just as little respect for him.

The only non-morons gang members I know of are trying to get out.
Tuff titties to the rest of them. Why should I respect someone who doesn't respect anyone else????

I don't respect gang members as such...I do try to respect PEOPLE until I'm convinced they don't deserve it.

Unfotuantly there are people out there who feel the same about motorcyclists also...are they also right.

R-Soul

8th February 2011, 14:49

I had no idea how much respect you have for the gangs in NZ.

Now don't get me wrong - the fact he rode a motorbike is irrelevant to what I said. He could have died by heart attack while sitting on the toilet - I would have just as little respect for him.

The only non-morons gang members I know of are trying to get out.
Tuff titties to the rest of them. Why should I respect someone who doesn't respect anyone else????

Its not respect for the deceased rider - its respect for the dead, and their families - who may not be gang members. If you are a 16 year old kid reading comments on KB about how his dad (his hero) is an expendible mororn, how would that make you feel?

avgas

8th February 2011, 14:55

I don't respect gang members as such...I do try to respect PEOPLE until I'm convinced they don't deserve it.

Unfotuantly there are people out there who feel the same about motorcyclists also...are they also right.
That will only change if motorcyclists as a whole change.
I have noticed it recently as little kids wave to me.

Gangs on the other hand have not. Unless you count the salvation army as a gang.

avgas

8th February 2011, 14:55

Its not respect for the deceased rider - its respect for the dead, and their families - who may not be gang members. If you are a 16 year old kid reading comments on KB about how his dad (his hero) is an expendible mororn, how would that make you feel?
Pretty bad.
Which is probably why I would think gangs are bad too.

All going well we will break a cycle.

FJRider

8th February 2011, 16:04

(Just in case anyone missed it the first time).

Some will miss it every time ...

PrincessBandit

8th February 2011, 17:42

Spewing fire and brimstone at each other isn't going to solve any problems..

What were we arguing about again?

Two posts which sum up how this thread has gone. Pointing it out though will have no effect because many here seem to get too much pleasure from continuing in this vein.

Elysium

8th February 2011, 17:48

Did anyone wave today?

bogan

8th February 2011, 17:49

Did anyone wave today?

Was in the van so I couldn't. But vannage is painted in a high visibility yellow, so I think the lower visibility due to not waving cancels out.

tri boy

8th February 2011, 17:54

Its not respect for the deceased rider - its respect for the dead,
BINGO!
Neither the cop, nor katman realise this.
There is a reason to let a soul rest, if they are really unlucky, they will find out why.

Katman

8th February 2011, 18:22

BINGO!
Neither the cop, nor katman realise this.
There is a reason to let a soul rest, if they are really unlucky, they will find out why.

I'm not doing this for the dead - I'm doing it for the alive.

roadracingoldfart

8th February 2011, 18:45

And safety's for losers, right?

You surprise me - I'd always given you credit for having some degree of intelligence.

You can give me credit or shit , i dont mind at all as i know you dont have any ideas about who i am or what i stand for. Absolutely no idea so dont presume ok.

That looks like fun

8th February 2011, 19:29

I'm not doing this for the dead - I'm doing it for the alive.

To avoid confusion I would ask who these "alive" are that you are doing this for? I certainly hope that you have not chosen to take it upon yourself to do this for me? (I am alive)
The reason I hope this is that while I often agree with your message your total apparent lack of consideration, compassion and respect for riders involved in fatal accidents means you most likely will not be respected or listened too.
Playing word games may seem like fun to some on an issue such as the life of a person I deem word games inappropriate.
Spread anger receive anger. Its how it works,
I suggest you find a more constructive way to try and get your message across.
If you cant then please leave me out of your alive group your doing it for

Katman

8th February 2011, 19:30

If you cant then please leave me out of your alive group your doing it for

You're free to leave any time you like.

That looks like fun

8th February 2011, 19:35

You can leave any time you like.

I will say it again slowly this time. Word games
There is no point to them
Stick with constructive

Katman

8th February 2011, 20:14

I will say it again slowly this time. Word games

And that brings us conveniently full circle back to post #1.

bogan

8th February 2011, 20:25

To avoid confusion I would ask who these "alive" are that you are doing this for? I certainly hope that you have not chosen to take it upon yourself to do this for me? (I am alive)
The reason I hope this is that while I often agree with your message your total apparent lack of consideration, compassion and respect for riders involved in fatal accidents means you most likely will not be respected or listened too.
Playing word games may seem like fun to some on an issue such as the life of a person I deem word games inappropriate.
Spread anger receive anger. Its how it works,
I suggest you find a more constructive way to try and get your message across.
If you cant then please leave me out of your alive group your doing it for

best post in thread since the original topic was abandoned, Katman et al would do well to think about what you have said.

tri boy

8th February 2011, 20:30

You really are an attention whore katman.
Always getting a last comment in.
I did have a bit of respect for some of your survival ideas, but your method of shovelling down peoples throats has worn wafer thin, now your just a sad lil mechanic in a lil workshop in Taupo.
95 demerits against yourself,and still preaching the rightous angle:facepalm:
PS, I also owned a 81 1100 Kat.
Nothing special, and the built up cranks were weak as piss if you pushed decent horsepower into them.
Keep living your lil fantasy life.

Elysium

8th February 2011, 20:32

Katman et al would do well to think about what you have said.

Doubt that. Some people are just too set on their ways to change.

People should simply ignore Katman if they find him offensive, crude, etc... as he seems to thrive on these debates.

Flip

8th February 2011, 20:51

Katman throws out misleading comments then see who bites. He then adopts the moral high ground, its called trolling and he gets off on it.

Bugger me psychoanalyzed by an Engineer, what is the world coming to.:innocent:

Fatt Max

8th February 2011, 20:51

You're free to leave any time you like.

...welcome to the Hotel California......

Oh sorry, wrong thread.....

Sorry...

Drew

8th February 2011, 20:56

What, sort of like post #14?

I could phrase my posts in the most positive and helpful manner imaginable and it wouldn't make a dollop of shit's worth of difference to the fuckheads who refuse to read and understand the words but rather react simply to the name 'Katman'.I know I don't react to your name! If nothing else, your first post in here totally detracted form why it was started!

The statement on the news was fuckin appalling! The very last sentance in the piece was "Police have said, that had the motorcyclist been wearing a Hi-vis vest, the incident may have been avoided". That shit sticks in peoples fuckin minds man. Not only do other motorists look at us with a shit load of pre-conceived notions, some of them now shake their heads because we aren't all wearing hi-vis bloody vests.

You truly are a vindictive snivelly little toad aren't you? You started the one on one personal name calling ya wanker. Wassa matter, didn't like getting it shoved straight back at ya? Do you think me or anyone else give a rats arse that a shithead gang-member dies in a plume of blood and guts? When did I say the rider that killed was a dickhead? I don't know the circumstances of that crash and haven't blamed anyone for it ya weaselly word-twisting prat. You're the classic example of the wank wank wank high-and-mighty biker with the "everyone else is to blame but yourselves" attitude. You're also the exact type of retard that caused my rego to skyrocket to over 500 bucks a year. Bet you ride down the street perched on your plastic rocket staring at yourself in shop windows, yet, oh no, all the fucken accidents you're constantly involved in where all caused by "the other person" Get your head out of your arse.

Crasher will recount a number times he fucked up and got spat off a bike you cock head, a particularly funny one leaving work on a Harly! And I've never even seen him ride a fuckin "plastic rocket", (and just the way you write that makes me realise you are a closed mind fuckwit who should be completely ignored at every oportunity).

Get fucked - nothing I've said has been disrespectful.

Anyone who thinks so is just a softcock. Bollucks man! The thread was started to illustrate a point. Jimmy didn't twist any words, he quoted the ENTIRE fuckin statement given on the news. He then added an analogy to illustrate how angry he was.

You turned this into a shit fight, by missing the fuckin point and being sarcastic. I stand by telling you to get fucked!

Most the time your message is correct, find someone most people don't wanna smash in the fuckin head to deliver it asshole!

Katman

8th February 2011, 20:56

Katman throws out misleading comments then see who bites.

Point me to one misleading post I've made here.

98tls

8th February 2011, 21:08

...welcome to the Hotel California......

Oh sorry, wrong thread.....

Sorry...
Dont be sorry........such a lovely place.........:violin::facepalm:Sorry.

Katman

8th February 2011, 21:13

Bollucks man! The thread was started to illustrate a point. Jimmy didn't twist any words, he quoted the ENTIRE fuckin statement given on the news. He then added an analogy to illustrate how angry he was.

Hardly a rational opening post, was it Drew?

So essentially, police are justifying the truck drivers murdering of a motorcyclist because said biker wasn't wearing a hi-viz.

Flip

8th February 2011, 21:14

Point me to one misleading post I've made here.

And then adopts the moral high ground.

FJRider

8th February 2011, 21:15

... The thread was started to illustrate a point. Jimmy didn't twist any words, he quoted the ENTIRE fuckin statement given on the news. He then added an analogy to illustrate how angry he was.

So ... why are so many people getting upset on one statement ... of one cop ... that in the case of this one case ... he may be have been correct.

One cop is not able to infer or imply that it should/could/WILL be law. IMHO he did not ... But the OP DID ... ???

And I think, to infer or imply he did ... is wrong.

98tls

8th February 2011, 21:17

Point me to one misleading post I've made here.

:shit:Weird how the interweb can become "here" or "there" or in fact "anywhere",worse still how do we point on the interweb.:doobey:Enough of this ive got the munchies.:corn:

steve_t

8th February 2011, 21:24

So ... why are so many people getting upset on one statement ... of one cop ... that in the case of this one case ... he may be have been correct.

One cop is not able to infer or imply that it should/could/WILL be law. IMHO he did not ... But the OP DID ... ???

And I think, to infer or imply he did ... is wrong.

Why? Because the cop implied (thought I should beat Hitcher to the punch and point out the imply and infer have very different meanings :innocent:) that the biker who wasn't wearing a high viz vest may have contributed to his own demise by not doing so. If you don't think this is a crock of shit then it's you and Katman against the rest...

Katman

8th February 2011, 21:27

If you don't think this is a crock of shit then it's you and Katman against the rest...

Hey, I don't think his lack of hi-viz had anything to do with the accident.

His situational awareness though - that's another matter.

steve_t

8th February 2011, 21:33

Hey, I don't think his lack of hi-viz had anything to do with the accident.

His situational awareness is another matter though.

Sorry, I wasn't meaning the rider's lack of high viz but was talking about the cop's comment being out of line. I guess I shouldn't assume anything about your position on this either. So, what is your position on the cop's statement to the media about the high viz?

FJRider

8th February 2011, 21:34

Why? Because the cop implied (thought I should beat Hitcher to the punch and point out the imply and infer have very different meanings :innocent:) that the biker who wasn't wearing a high viz vest may have contributed to his own demise by not doing so. If you don't think this is a crock of shit then it's you and Katman against the rest...

Where did this "contributed to his own death" bit come in ... ??? Journalistic licence of the OP ???

steve_t

8th February 2011, 21:37

Where did this "contributed to his own death" bit come in ... ??? Journalistic licence of the OP ???

I didn't get a chance to see the article as the 3News website pulled the video after Mom and probably many others complained. Did you see the article? Was Jimmy's account of what was said on TV not accurate? I'd be keen to see it if anyone has it

Katman

8th February 2011, 21:38

So, what is your position on the cop's statement to the media about the high viz?

I've already stated that I feel the comment may well be an attempt to gather public support for the introduction of hi-vis being made compulsory.

And I'm not angry because he said it, I'm angry because for so long all we've ever done is grizzle that "waaaaa, he didn't see me" - even though we saw them.

If wearing hi-viz becomes compulsory it's because we've made it so easy for the powers that be to introduce the idea.

Kendog

8th February 2011, 21:40

Point me to one misleading post I've made here.

This is misleading.

I consider myself to be of above average intelligence.
An intelligent person would change the way they delivered their message when they realised it was not working.

FJRider

8th February 2011, 21:44

I didn't get a chance to see the article as the 3News website pulled the video after Mom and probably many others complained. Did you see the article? Was Jimmy's account of what was said on TV not accurate? I'd be keen to see it if anyone has it

Perhaps you point out where it was said "in the article" that started this thread ...

Ask the OP if it was quoted ... or was just his opinion ...

I would be interested in the reply ...

Katman

8th February 2011, 21:46

This is misleading.

I see you conveniently left off the wink at the end of it.

If that's your best effort, fuck off and try again.

steve_t

8th February 2011, 21:54

Perhaps you point out where it was said "in the article" that started this thread ...

Ask the OP if it was quoted ... or was just his opinion ...

I would be interested in the reply ...

You can ask him. With multiple people also starting threads along the same lines and with Mom and MAGNZ finding the comment so egregious that 3News were written to, I have no reason to believe the OP was inaccurate. There may be some direct quotes at the start of this thread but regardless of verbatim quotes, common inferences were made in relation to the comments made.

FJRider

8th February 2011, 22:02

... common inferences were made in relation to the comments made.

This from one who a few posts back ... said they never saw the article ...

steve_t

8th February 2011, 22:06

This from one who a few posts back ... said they never saw the article ...

Not by me, by the multiple people who felt sufficiently fired up to start threads

FJRider

8th February 2011, 22:13

Not by me, by the multiple people who felt sufficiently fired up to start threads

I might be so bold to suggest ... you dont believe as fact ... opinions of all/any KB'rs in the forums ....

Not even mine ... :innocent: but you already implied you dont anyway ... :lol:

steve_t

8th February 2011, 22:17

I might be so bold to suggest ... you dont believe as fact ... opinions of all/any KB'rs in the forums ....

Not even mine ... :innocent: but you already implied you dont anyway ... :lol:

LOL. Fair call. We've all gotta keep a bag of salt next to the computer when on KB :shutup: :innocent:

Drew

9th February 2011, 05:45

Hey, I don't think his lack of hi-viz had anything to do with the accident.

His situational awareness though - that's another matter.

Then go find some place else to grind your axe. This thread is NOT about what caused the fuckin crash, it's about what was said on the news fucking us off!

Katman

9th February 2011, 05:58

Then go find some place else to grind your axe. This thread is NOT about what caused the fuckin crash, it's about what was said on the news fucking us off!

Do you always look at such a small picture Drew?

R-Soul

9th February 2011, 07:00

Dont be sorry........such a lovely place.........:violin::facepalm:Sorry.

Damn!

...many a room in the Hotel California.....

sorry.. :shutup:

MSTRS

9th February 2011, 07:36

Way too much to read the lot. But I do have a thought or two on the subject - apologies if others have said same...

1. Nobody, cops especially, has any right to state Hi-vis will save a rider, or lead to a different outcome.
2. Hi-vis does not make a rider more visible.
3. Riders who wear Hi-vis MAY be more safety conscious in the first instance - it is their roadcraft that keeps them safe(r) not the Hi-vis.
4. Blaming a rider for getting caught out by the poor roadcraft of other motorists insults all motorcyclists...
5. ...and excuses said motorists from EVER changing their 'behaviour'.

6. And lastly, until TPTB get serious about driving skills, we motorcyclists will bear the brunt of so-called initiatives they say will 'save' us.

From the other thread, and quoted here for clarity re above.

A fluro vest wont even save you on a building site, you have to wear one along with steel cap boots and a hard hat, but if you slip and fall 4-5 stories out a a hole were a window is ment to be, chances are you will die.
In most cases, it is up to you save your own arse by being vigilant.
A FLURO VEST WILL NOT SAVE YOUR LIFE.
Its that simple.
For anyone to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

Whynot

9th February 2011, 07:41

Did anyone wave today?

I don't wave to people who wear hi vis.

Katman

9th February 2011, 08:02

The way I see it we have three options for improving our safety.

a) We can bitch and moan about the incompetence of all the other road users and we can stamp our feet demanding they up their game (like we've been doing since time in-memorium) and achieve the same results - nothing, or....

b)....we can give up motorcycling, or.....

c)....we can start taking a good hard look at how we can ride with an awareness that takes into account the incompetence of those other road users.

If we leave it up to the government to make things safer for us we ain't going to like their methods.

bogan

9th February 2011, 08:24

Katman

9th February 2011, 08:35

option k) We can bitch and moan about the incompetence of all the bikers and we can stamp our feet demanding they up their game (like we've been doing since time in-memorium) and achieve the same results - nothing, or....

Do you really think we've collectively tried option k?

bogan

9th February 2011, 08:45

Do you really think we've collectively tried option k?

oh so now you're bitching about our lack of bitching? Small scale testing shows option k is pretty much ineffective, so why would we scale up?

Katman

9th February 2011, 09:02

oh so now you're bitching about our lack of bitching? Small scale testing shows option k is pretty much ineffective, so why would we scale up?

Perhaps we should try option c instead then.

Eyegasm

9th February 2011, 09:15

Perhaps we should try option c instead then.

But Katman, you are soo good at option A. Why would you want to change?

bogan

9th February 2011, 09:17

Perhaps we should try option c instead then.

most certainly, a number of us already do, the question becomes how to reach the others? option k isn't working, so maybe try something less offensive, and more constructive?

Reckless

9th February 2011, 09:17

4. Blaming a rider for getting caught out by the poor roadcraft of other motorists insults all motorcyclists...
5. ...and excuses said motorists from EVER changing their 'behaviour'.

Now there's a point! :yes:

MSL?? imagine spending our whole 3 million educating cagers on the skills cagers should already have or be paying to up-skill themselves! Thanks for the money bikers!

or that other option,
option k) We can bitch and moan about the incompetence of all the bikers and we can stamp our feet demanding they up their game (like we've been doing since time in-memorium) and achieve the same results - nothing, or....

OH pure KB gold! Bling sent!

oldrider

9th February 2011, 09:39

Way too much to read the lot. But I do have a thought or two on the subject - apologies if others have said same...

1. Nobody, cops especially, has any right to state Hi-vis will save a rider, or lead to a different outcome.
2. Hi-vis does not make a rider more visible.
3. Riders who wear Hi-vis MAY be more safety conscious in the first instance - it is their roadcraft that keeps them safe(r) not the Hi-vis.
4. Blaming a rider for getting caught out by the poor roadcraft of other motorists insults all motorcyclists...
5. ...and excuses said motorists from EVER changing their 'behaviour'.

6. And lastly, until TPTB get serious about driving skills, we motorcyclists will bear the brunt of so-called initiatives they say will 'save' us.

From the other thread, and quoted here for clarity re above.

Note: If you don't have your headlight on today "notice how many people tell you about it"! (they all see you OK then!)

Having headlights on on motorcycles "was" our point of difference!

What value has that today?

The difference IMHO is because the "official" attitude is that we are just nuisance value to other road users, therefore psychologically "irrelevant"! (they don't see us because "officially" we have no relevance)

Are Hi-vis-vests, the new point of difference? I think not! :oi-grr:

Solution: Change the "official" and public attitude toward motorcycles!

How do we do that? Well we can start with the one that "we" control!

"Our behaviour" and our own "attitude" towards other road users!

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you! :yes:

Amongst all the other rhetoric, I think "that" is Katmans message and frankly, I have to agree with him on that!

Spearfish

9th February 2011, 10:12

Note: If you don't have your headlight on today "notice how many people tell you about it"! (they all see you OK then!)

Having headlights on on motorcycles "was" our point of difference!

What value has that today?

The difference IMHO is because the "official" attitude is that we are just nuisance value to other road users, therefore psychologically "irrelevant"! (they don't see us because "officially" we have no relevance)

Are Hi-vis-vests, the new point of difference? I think not! :oi-grr:

Solution: Change the "official" and public attitude toward motorcycles!

How do we do that? Well we can start with the one that "we" control!

"Our behaviour" and our own "attitude" towards other road users!

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you! :yes:

Amongst all the other rhetoric, I think "that" is Katmans message and frankly, I have to agree with him on that!

Today on the way to work 4 cars had their mirrors hit by a bike filtering(?) at 30 +-kph faster than the traffic going 70, in a 70kph zone!. They were just the ones I could see, at least two things happened with that event.
1- reinforced everything bad with motorcyclists
2- fucked it up for those who follow PROPERLY later.

Perhaps the new road code for bikers should have a list of recent crashes, the result and how it happened or even a booklet like the one pilots get every so often from the CAA(?)

Easy name for it- Don't do what Donny Don't does.

MSTRS

9th February 2011, 10:20

Amongst all the other rhetoric, I think "that" is Katmans message and frankly, I have to agree with him on that!

Too many see KMs message as "You are a cock!"

What he says is actually slightly different. He means...

Be proactive. You are responsible for your own safety.

riffer

9th February 2011, 12:00

Too many see KMs message as "You are a cock!"

What he says is actually slightly different. He means...

Be proactive. You are responsible for your own safety.

Indeed. I would much rather follow Katman's advice now than bow to Government's laws later.

BoristheBiter

9th February 2011, 12:05

Indeed. I would much rather follow Katman's advice now than bow to Government's laws later.

What ?? that must be wrong, thats far to simple.

Smifffy

9th February 2011, 12:14

Too many see KMs message as "You are a cock!"

What he says is actually slightly different. He means...

Be proactive. You are responsible for your own safety.

What I think he means is:

Be proactive. You are responsible for your own safety, or else be a cock.

scumdog

9th February 2011, 12:15

Not by me, by the multiple people who felt sufficiently fired up to start threads

Fuck, judging the accuracy of what was 'said' by how a bunch of KBers react?

Priceless!

Bring out the pitchforks and firebrands I say...

(nice troll)

steve_t

9th February 2011, 12:15

LOL. This thread has taken an interesting turn :innocent:

"You guys are a bunch of fickle mush heads."
"He's right."
"Give us hell, Quimby" :drinkup:

miloking

9th February 2011, 12:17

Today on the way to work 4 cars had their mirrors hit by a bike filtering(?) at 30 +-kph faster than the traffic going 70, in a 70kph zone!. They were just the ones I could see, at least two things happened with that event.
1- reinforced everything bad with motorcyclists
2- fucked it up for those who follow PROPERLY later.

Perhaps the new road code for bikers should have a list of recent crashes, the result and how it happened or even a booklet like the one pilots get every so often from the CAA(?)

Easy name for it- Don't do what Donny Don't does.

Yesterday I saw utter cocksucker on black GS1200 filter near st.lukes mall ...he got next to a van with slightly larger mirror and because he was fat faggot and couldnt get past, he SMACKED the mirror shut against the van and rode past like nothing happended...

I was sitting right next to the van, and actualy was so ashamed that i wanted to appologise on behalf of all bikers for that...

i fucking dare that idiot to do it to me in my cage next time!

steve_t

9th February 2011, 12:20

Fuck, judging the accuracy of what was 'said' by how a bunch of KBers react?

Priceless!

Bring out the pitchforks and firebrands I say...

(nice troll)

LOL. Who's the one trolling?
I can't make assumptions on how you feel, but I think Mom, president of MAGNZ, has a lot of credibility. Just because there are lot of others on here (including me) who need to be taken with a grain/shaker/bag of salt, it doesn't mean everyone should be :corn:

MarkH

9th February 2011, 12:44

Too many see KMs message as "You are a cock!"

What he says is actually slightly different. He means...

Be proactive. You are responsible for your own safety.

I agree for the most part with what KM is trying to say, but I think that he is shit at effectively communicating that message here on these forums. Probably in real life (you know, that poor substitute to the internet) he has no problem explaining to someone why they should be always vigilant while riding, but here he just can't explain what he wants to without coming across like an arrogant arsehole.

For anyone that is willing to overlook how KM says what he says and think about what KM is trying to say - it is a valuable message that can save your life if you heed it.

I recall my cousin telling me about nearly having an accident when he was young and fairly new to driving. It seems that a car indicated left and then moved to the right, my cousin decided to drive around him on the left when the car turned to the left. My cousin didn't understand why the idiot would need to move to the right if he was actually turning left like he was indicating. Lesson: if a vehicle is indicating left and moving right then DON'T ASSUME that the indicator is wrong, slow down and wait for them to go wherever they are actually going. It is better to stop behind someone than make an assumption about what they are doing - other road users are idiots and they will do idiotic things, don't trust them.

In the case of the motorcyclist that was killed by the U-turning truck, could he have done anything differently so that he would not have died? Maybe he could have, I wasn't there, I didn't see it, I don't know. What I wouldn't do is state to the media that had he been wearing a hi-viz vest then the truck driver may have seen him and not killed him. For one thing that may have made no difference at all. For another thing Katman will tell us that the rider should have been aware of the truck and avoided the accident, we can't MAKE drivers see us, we need to take steps to avoid being killed. I tend to agree with this idea - the chances of a hi-viz vest making a difference would be low, (in my opinion) maybe less than 10%. The chances of more care by the motorcyclist (with anticipating what the truck driver might do) making the difference - much higher (maybe, this is just a guess, I didn't see this incident unfold so I can't know for sure) like maybe 80-90%.

I think that it would have been inappropriate for the police officer to conjecture to the media that maybe the motorcyclist should have been more wary - it was the truck driver that broke the law and it would be terribly insensitive to the friends or family of the deceased rider to publicly point out where he could have done better. I don't believe the police officer giving the statement about a hi-viz vest actually witnessed the accident and I don't think his conjecture was appropriate. If he didn't have anything useful to say then he should have shut the fuck up.

Nothing in the OP goes against KM's views that motorcyclists are primarily responsible for avoiding being in a fatal accident - the OP was about the inappropriateness of the blame shifting comment to the press by the police officer. I can think of no excuse for suggesting that the motorcyclist didn't do enough to make himself seen - the truck driver had a legal responsibility to check carefully enough to see a motorcyclist even one not wearing a hi-viz vest. Maybe the SCU can offer some insight into what could have been done differently after a careful investigation but a police officer at this point should be more careful about what they say to the press.

That looks like fun

9th February 2011, 14:58

I agree for the most part with what KM is trying to say, but I think that he is shit at effectively communicating that message here on these forums. Probably in real life (you know, that poor substitute to the internet) he has no problem explaining to someone why they should be always vigilant while riding, but here he just can't explain what he wants to without coming across like an arrogant arsehole.

For anyone that is willing to overlook how KM says what he says and think about what KM is trying to say - it is a valuable message that can save your life if you heed it.

I recall my cousin telling me about nearly having an accident when he was young and fairly new to driving. It seems that a car indicated left and then moved to the right, my cousin decided to drive around him on the left when the car turned to the left. My cousin didn't understand why the idiot would need to move to the right if he was actually turning left like he was indicating. Lesson: if a vehicle is indicating left and moving right then DON'T ASSUME that the indicator is wrong, slow down and wait for them to go wherever they are actually going. It is better to stop behind someone than make an assumption about what they are doing - other road users are idiots and they will do idiotic things, don't trust them.

In the case of the motorcyclist that was killed by the U-turning truck, could he have done anything differently so that he would not have died? Maybe he could have, I wasn't there, I didn't see it, I don't know. What I wouldn't do is state to the media that had he been wearing a hi-viz vest then the truck driver may have seen him and not killed him. For one thing that may have made no difference at all. For another thing Katman will tell us that the rider should have been aware of the truck and avoided the accident, we can't MAKE drivers see us, we need to take steps to avoid being killed. I tend to agree with this idea - the chances of a hi-viz vest making a difference would be low, (in my opinion) maybe less than 10%. The chances of more care by the motorcyclist (with anticipating what the truck driver might do) making the difference - much higher (maybe, this is just a guess, I didn't see this incident unfold so I can't know for sure) like maybe 80-90%.

I think that it would have been inappropriate for the police officer to conjecture to the media that maybe the motorcyclist should have been more wary - it was the truck driver that broke the law and it would be terribly insensitive to the friends or family of the deceased rider to publicly point out where he could have done better. I don't believe the police officer giving the statement about a hi-viz vest actually witnessed the accident and I don't think his conjecture was appropriate. If he didn't have anything useful to say then he should have shut the fuck up.

Nothing in the OP goes against KM's views that motorcyclists are primarily responsible for avoiding being in a fatal accident - the OP was about the inappropriateness of the blame shifting comment to the press by the police officer. I can think of no excuse for suggesting that the motorcyclist didn't do enough to make himself seen - the truck driver had a legal responsibility to check carefully enough to see a motorcyclist even one not wearing a hi-viz vest. Maybe the SCU can offer some insight into what could have been done differently after a careful investigation but a police officer at this point should be more careful about what they say to the press.

I say hallelujah brothers,:woohoo: can i have an Amen to that :innocent::love:

Eyegasm

9th February 2011, 15:09

Just because there are lot of others on here (including me) who need to be taken with a grain/shaker/bag of salt, it doesn't mean everyone should be :corn:

Mate, it's an internet forum... I take everything said here with a grain of salt. Only after looking into a fact myself will I then heed/listen to what was said.

I agree for the most part with what KM is trying to say, but I think that he is shit at effectively
~Snip~
into what could have been done differently after a careful investigation but a police officer at this point should be more careful about what they say to the press.

tl;dr

Bulletpoints?

Maha

9th February 2011, 15:12

LOL. Who's the one trolling?
I can't make assumptions on how you feel, but I think Mom, president of MAGNZ, has a lot of credibility. Just because there are lot of others on here (including me) who need to be taken with a grain/shaker/bag of salt, it doesn't mean everyone should be :corn:

Indeed, those who think they know everything really annoy those that do.

Ocean1

9th February 2011, 15:36

Too many see KMs message as "You are a cock!"

What he says is actually slightly different. He means...

Be proactive. You are responsible for your own safety.

When I want his opinion on how anyone else should behave then I'll be sure to ask.

In the meantime he should mind his own business. Quietly.

Katman

9th February 2011, 15:40

In the meantime he should mind his own business. Quietly.

Motorcycling, and the success or demise of it, is my business.:psst:

scumdog

9th February 2011, 16:01

Indeed, those who think they know everything really annoy those that do.

Ain't THAT the truth...

Ocean1

9th February 2011, 16:34

Motorcycling, and the success or demise of it, is my business.:psst:

Really? Strange, you sound exactly the same as those who want motorcycles gone, or severely regulated.

Katman

9th February 2011, 16:44

Really? Strange, you sound exactly the same as those who want motorcycles gone, or severely regulated.

That's exactly what I've been fighting to avoid from the start.

If you haven't figured that out you're pretty fucking stupid.

phill-k

9th February 2011, 16:48

Really? Strange, you sound exactly the same as those who want motorcycles gone, or severely regulated.

No what KM wants is for motorcyclists to start taking responsibility for their own stupidity and that's not a bad thing.

Unfortunately their are always those that either are stupid enough that they can't take the message on board, or who think they are that shit-hot that it doesn't apply to them. /that bunch really fuck me off.

MSTRS

9th February 2011, 16:51

That's exactly what I've been fighting to avoid from the start.

If you haven't figured that out you're pretty fucking stupid.

It's true.
KM has always - that's ALWAYS - said behave on the roads (there's more, but that's the gist), otherwise we are likely to see bikes regulated off the roads.
So far, he's not wrong. Our regos went up for a start...

Crasherfromwayback

9th February 2011, 17:12

. Our regos went up for a start...

They were always going to I'll bet you my left nut. We're THE easiest bunch to sting, without the govt losing enough votes to get kicked out. Now I know it doesn't help if we keep getting injured...but it's not like we're ever gonna stop people racing moto-x etc is it? And injuries happen. They're simply stinging us because they can, AND stay in power. As I've always said...if they had any balls, they'd make the price of fuel/diesel $1.00 a litre more, and ACC would be in the black. Then everyone...farmers fucking themselves on quads, trail riders, jet skiers, boaties, mums that drop the kids off to school in the suv and do u turns that kill motorcyclists...etc etc etc ALL prop up the system! It would make more people ride scooters etc, helping road congestion and ease parking issues, it would make scooter riders better drivers when they could afford a car. It would help ME (cause it's all about me), and yes...even Katman.

So despite calling myself crasherfromwayback (when I started road racing again after several years away from it, quite a few friends/competitors said "Ahhhh here he is...a Crasher From Way Back") ,I don't think parting company with a bike is cool. I wish we'd all stop doing it. I'm all for us all getting better at staying on. But my real beef is statements by certain people that all 'u turn' accidents can be avoided, as it's 100% fucking crap. Those that say that, have simply been LUCKY enough to have NEVER been UNLUCKY enough to have been in the wrong place, at that EXACT time when it's UNAVOIDABLE. To say it on a public forum when some unlucky person has just been killed, when they don't know the facts...and the lost riders family could be reading the comments...is fucking poor taste in my book. End of story.

Spearfish

9th February 2011, 17:17

They were always going to I'll bet you my left nut. We're THE easiest bunch to sting, without the govt losing enough votes to get kicked out. Now I know it doesn't help if we keep getting injured...but it's not like we're ever gonna stop people racing moto-x etc is it? And injuries happen. They're simply stinging us because they can, AND stay in power. As I've always said...if they had any balls, they'd make the price of fuel/diesel $1.00 a litre more, and ACC would be in the black. Then everyone...farmers fucking themselves on quads, trail riders, jet skiers, boaties, mums that drop the kids off to school in the suv and do u turns that kill motorcyclists...etc etc etc ALL prop up the system! It would make more people ride scooters etc, helping road congestion and ease parking issues, it would make scooter riders better drivers when they could afford a car. It would help ME (cause it's all about me), and yes...even Katman.

So despite calling myself crasherfromwayback (when I started road racing again after several years away from it, quite a few friends/competitors said "Ahhhh here he is...a Crasher From Way Back") ,I don't think parting company with a bike is cool. I wish we'd all stop doing it. I'm all for us all getting better at staying on. But my real beef is statements by certain people that all 'u turn' accidents can be avoided, as it's 100% fucking crap. Those that say that, have simply been LUCKY enough to have NEVER been UNLUCKY enough to have been in the wrong place, at that EXACT time when it's UNAVOIDABLE. To say it on a public forum when some unlucky person has just been killed, when they don't know the facts...and the lost riders family could be reading the comments...is fucking poor taste in my book. End of story.

Phew!
Apart from the other points, now I understand you choice of alias.

FJRider

9th February 2011, 17:20

Then go find some place else to grind your axe. This thread is NOT about what caused the fuckin crash, it's about what was said on the news fucking us off!

Actually ... it WASN'T actually SAID. The idea came into YOUR head what you had thought it meant ... then ranted ...

I would suggest you rant on FACTS (ie: what was actually said)... not your thoughts on what they might have meant ...

MSTRS

9th February 2011, 17:25

You are right, Pete. Some of KMs message is 'misguided' and he certainly goes too far at times.
We all know that there are 'accidents' and 'crashes' (yes, I know not all see it that way, but just to separate the two 'types' - avoidable/unavoidable). Ideally, every biker down should be an accident.
We know that things going tits-up on a bike can be fairly easy, but there are a whole lot of incidents that would be totally avoided IF the rider was perhaps paying a little more attention.
The way one rides is the one factor in any situation that is within the rider's control. And that is where KMs message is aimed. Unfortunately he chooses to see every rider down as a crash, that was avoidable. He is probably right some of the time...

Katman

9th February 2011, 17:28

Unfortunately he chooses to see every rider down as a crash, that was avoidable. He is probably right some of the time...

One slight point of difference John........

I choose to examine every rider down thread as one that was potentially avoidable.

To do any less is taking the easy road.

Scuba_Steve

9th February 2011, 17:29

bogan

9th February 2011, 17:34

Some of KMs message is 'misguided' and he certainly goes too far at times.

It's kinda like if the mailman delivered your xmas cards by walking in, taking his pants off, and dragging his knob across your counter, wedging the card in his but crack, and bending over waiting for you to grab it.

Regardless of what is written in the card, you aint gonna be happy to read it, and some would just biff it and attack the mailman.

Katman

9th February 2011, 17:36

It's kinda like if the mailman delivered your xmas cards by walking in, taking his pants off, and dragging his knob across your counter, wedging the card in his but crack, and bending over waiting for you to grab it.

Regardless of what is written in the card, you aint gonna be happy to read it, and some would just biff it an attack the mailman.

What if I made sure that I had a shower every morning?

FJRider

9th February 2011, 17:40

We all know that there are 'accidents' and 'crashes' (yes, I know not all see it that way, but just to separate the two 'types' - avoidable/unavoidable). Ideally, every biker down should be an accident.

To me the term "accident" implies there is no blame in either/any party involved ...

And this term is often used (too often) to avoid any implication/suggestion of guilt ... more often than not ... by those that ARE guilty ...

Ocean1

9th February 2011, 17:55

That's exactly what I've been fighting to avoid from the start.

Then you need to stop behaving like the enemy.

No what KM wants is for motorcyclists to start taking responsibility for their own stupidity and that's not a bad thing.

Unfortunately their are always those that either are stupid enough that they can't take the message on board, or who think they are that shit-hot that it doesn't apply to them. /that bunch really fuck me off.

Everyone knows what he wants. He ain't going to get it, and the fact that various idiots parrot tha same drivel doesn't make it any more likely.

See, whether those of us who disagree are shit-hot or otherwise is irrelevant, the fact is we are who we decided to be. Everyone has that same choice, and THAT's the point, it's their choice to make.

And before some tit who can't count blames those who chose a different way for the actions of varoius public institutions I'd like to point out that those actions can more accurately be blamed on the officious departments in question. Particularly those who have been demonstrated to lie like sausages in fat last night's fat to get their way.

Ocean1

9th February 2011, 17:58

To me the term "accident" implies there is no blame in either/any party involved ...

Then you're aprehension is incorrect. Check a dictionary.

Katman

9th February 2011, 18:02

Then you're aprehension is incorrect. Check a dictionary.

You're starting to sound desperate.

(As well as fucking stupid).

That looks like fun

9th February 2011, 18:06

This thread was started not as an opportunity to pick to bits other riders ( one in particular who unfortunately cant defend himself). It was about an alleged statement made by a Police Officer about whether or not a Hi Viz vest would have saved said Bikers life. Now I know this is KB and the Internet and all that but every thread seems to end up a Non Constructive Bitch fest with the same old tired arguments and word games

Regardless of whether a message is good bad or just stupid, delivery is more often than not what carries the idea.
If an advertising agent wanted to give every New Zealander a gold bar and proceeded to sell them his giveaway by telling them all of his beliefs about their shortcomings :angry: (with a potty mouth as well :sick:), Most people would listen because they want that Gold Bar :yes:
However day after day everywhere they turn potty mouth is preaching at them from his self made pedestal, some will still hang out and wait for the gold bar, others will walk away. :facepalm:
So potty mouth stands up taller, swears more and demands they listen!!! Even if he is right about what he is saying, as the man on the TV says, "I walk away" :violin:

Point is it don't matter what your message is and how good it is, if you want people to listen don't become a part of the problem. :love:

FJRider

9th February 2011, 18:06

Then you're aprehension is incorrect. Check a dictionary.

Funny how ... "It wasn't my fault ... it was an accident" gets heard in court ...TOO OFTEN ... by ALL parties involved ...

"Accident" is often thought to be "with no blame" by some ... Not intentional does not mean without fault as some like to insist ...

Katman

9th February 2011, 18:10

(with a potty mouth as well :sick:)

Did you stumble upon Kiwibiker while googling Kiwiknitter?

That looks like fun

9th February 2011, 18:13

Why resort to insults and swearing? :blink: The person who yells loudest and last is not always the winner :yes:

Ocean1

9th February 2011, 18:14

"Accident" is often thought to be "with no blame" by some ... Not intentional does not mean without fault as some like to insist ...

Don't recal having heard anyone use "accident" in the sense of "blameless" before. At least nobody over 7 years old.

Perhaps you've been hearing it from the basis of your misinterpretation of the words meaning.

Katman

9th February 2011, 18:14

Why resort to insults and swearing?

Have you read this thread through? :blink:

MarkH

9th February 2011, 18:14

Funny how ... "It wasn't my fault ... it was an accident" gets heard in court ...TOO OFTEN ... by ALL parties involved ...

"Accident" is often thought to be "with no blame" by some ... Not intentional does not mean without fault as some like to insist ...

Damn straight!

True:
Accident = not deliberate

False:
Accident = no one at fault

In court accident can mean not guilty of murder, but guilty of manslaughter. A person can go to prison for several years for accidentally killing another person, it isn't as bad as for deliberately killing another person but it is still a criminal conviction and a few years out of society.

That looks like fun

9th February 2011, 18:16

Have you read this thread through? :blink:

Yes, :yes::yes::scooter:

FJRider

9th February 2011, 18:25

I thought I'd been rather restrained compared to the 'We Hate Katman' club.

Free membership of any club has it's downsides ... at least when anybody mentions your name ... they don't say WHO ??? :innocent:

That looks like fun

9th February 2011, 18:27

I agree that as far as swearing etc your not the only one doing it. That however was not the purpose of my post.
A great many have remarked that your message of rider responsibilty has legs. Read back over my post and see if you can fathom why anger and hostility seems to surround many of your statements.

Hell if all else fails just carry one. End of the day I dont give a fuck :innocent:

Off to wash my mouth out now :shutup:

Crasherfromwayback

9th February 2011, 18:44

Phew!
Apart from the other points, now I understand you choice of alias.

Hahaha...good. Funny thing is...I didn't really crash that often racing anyway. It's simply (as it often is) how others preceive you.

riffer

9th February 2011, 18:57

Don't recal having heard anyone use "accident" in the sense of "blameless" before. At least nobody over 7 years old.

Perhaps you've been hearing it from the basis of your misinterpretation of the words meaning.

I think not as well. Allow me to quote a dictionary:

accident

- 5 dictionary results

<style type="text/css">.shd_hdr1 { width: 100%; }.sep_top1 { position: relative; }.citesourceseperator { border-bottom: 1px solid rgb(228, 228, 228); margin-top: 15px; margin-bottom: 7px; }.sep_top1 table { margin-top: -2px; margin-bottom: -3px; }.results_content ul, .results_content ol { margin-bottom: -3px; }.LImg { background-image: url("http://sp1.dictionary.com/en/i/dictionary/AddThis_v2/sprite_icons.png"); }.Lsentnce { display: block; margin-top: 14px; }</style> ac·ci·dent

–noun

an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
Law . such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/the) fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.
chance; fortune; luck: I was there by accident.
a fortuitous circumstance, quality, or characteristic: an accident of birth.
Philosophy. any entity or event contingent upon the existence of something else.
Geology . a surface irregularity, usually on a small scale, the reason for which is not apparent.

I think no 2 comes to mind the most here, and no 1 as well.

Crasherfromwayback

9th February 2011, 18:57

Have you read this thread through? :blink:

I have. I remember your post that asked "How old are you guys?"

Then I see after my post you gave me red rep and said with it "You lose".

Hypocrites are people I hate the most. You really do think you're so clever. So much better...than the rest of us. But you've obviously never come across a situation that leads to a serious accident you can't possibly avoid, because if you had, like the rest of the unlucky ones that have...you'd get off your higher than heaven soapbox and shut the fuck up about shit you've never had to experience. That is what makes YOU a loser. Not me.

Reckless

9th February 2011, 19:01

oh Guess what a typical Katman thread!!
Guess what its become about "Katman"
How strange just like every other Katman thread??
I wonder who it is that likes it this way! oh guess who Katman! :yes:

Let me predict the pattern:
post something, you get a one liner
Post another response, you get a nasty gibe
Keep it up, you get abusive innuendo or straight out "your a ?????"
Then comes the red rep!

Its a game! I'm starting to think he really doesn't give a shit about the "message" its just a vehicle....??

Fun to watch, fun to play, fun to wind up sometimes to!! :innocent:
Ignore you say? na this is KB at its best!! (or worst??) :woohoo:

OH shit now I'm wasting my time posting as well! LOL!!! :shutup:
Haha its Hard not to be a player aye!!! :facepalm:

Carry on all!!

Katman

9th February 2011, 19:04

Hypocrites are people I hate the most. You really do think you're so clever. So much better...than the rest of us. But you've obviously never come across a situation that leads to a serious accident you can't possibly avoid, because if you had, like the rest of the unlucky ones that have...you'd get off your higher than heaven soapbox and shut the fuck up about shit you've never had to experience. That is what makes YOU a loser. Not me.

Listen fuckhead - I've experienced motorcycling that would have you pissing your panties too scared to get out of bed.

I've had countless accidents in the distant past - all of which were avoidable through better management on my part.

I don't think I'm clever - I think I'm lucky enough to be able to speak out through experience and hopefully save some lives.

Usarka

9th February 2011, 19:08

Drew

9th February 2011, 19:20

Actually ... it WASN'T actually SAID. The idea came into YOUR head what you had thought it meant ... then ranted ...

I would suggest you rant on FACTS (ie: what was actually said)... not your thoughts on what they might have meant ...

What was said ON THE NEWS is what fucked us off. And we quoted it directly for fuck sake.

I AM ranting on the fact, that the reporter SAID, "Police have said that had the motorcyclist been wearing a hi vis vest, the accident/tragedy (can't remember which now) may have been avoided".

This thread is about THAT being a stupid thing to say. Nothing more!

You can try and pick holes all ya like, but it wont work, because the thread is based on an opinion, and weather you think it's founded well or not, we know our opinion to be A FACT.

Crasherfromwayback

9th February 2011, 19:28

Listen fuckhead - I've experienced motorcycling that would have you pissing your panties too scared to get out of bed.

I've had countless accidents in the distant past - all of which were avoidable through better management on my part.

I don't think I'm clever - I think I'm lucky enough to be able to speak out through experience and hopefully save some lives.

You've experienced nothing like what I have on a motorcycle wankstain, and don't even try to pretend you have. What I've done on motorcycles would make you piss your panties Homo. And you probably still piss your 'panties', dreaming of what someone that's half handy on one can achieve.

And you obviously think you're clever. I've seen you MANY times call others here stupid, simple and or thick...when they dare call you on something. You're a bitter twisted dreamer, that often back pedals when the tide turns too much for you to cope with. You shouldn't even be involved with motorcycles. You should be a fucking parking warden. And I'm sorry any parking wardens here...I know that's insulting you.

Katman

9th February 2011, 19:29

Mom

9th February 2011, 19:39

Listen fuckhead

Someone should really wash your mouth out :yes:

Message good all the time, delivery sucks. Wrong thread to attempt to deliver message in.

Hi Viz will not make any difference to our crash/death rate. The mere fact a copper was reported to state that it MAY have made a difference in the outcome is what this thread and its attending outrage is all about.

I for one am not friggen interested in getting yet another layer of expense added to my bill to ride a motorbike. I have only ever worn Fluro shit while marshalling/protesting, reflective stripes are good as a pillion at night. I am about to start a commute on 2 wheels again (once I find a bike to fit). Telling me what I should wear to make myself safe is offensive. The most important way I can make/keep myself safe is to PAY ATTENTION! FFS, that is a no brainer.

A biker/motorcyclist is dead. I dont care if he was a gang member or not. He was on two wheels and he got cleaned up by another road user that "DID NOT SEE HIM".

Yeah, I know the arguments about gang members getting what karma delivers, but honestly folks, that could have been any motorcycle rider.

Think on that.

Mom

9th February 2011, 19:42

Reading through, there are a few that need to eat soap :yes:

Katman

9th February 2011, 19:44

Message good all the time, delivery sucks. Wrong thread to attempt to deliver message in.

Sorry Anne but the thread never started with anything worth saying.

It was just a bunch of motorcyclists thinking they could gain a bit of sympathy by spitting tacks over an innocuous comment.

The only thing that can be seen as productive from this thread is if motorcyclists realise that crying "they didn't see me" is only going to work against them.

Crasherfromwayback

9th February 2011, 19:46

Fuck off dickhead. All you've done is go fast round and round a sterile racetrack.

Once again...think you know it all...know fuck all. I actually started (road) racing really late in life. 25 in fact. I had raced moto-x since 16. But I was (like a lot of cum filled youg guys) riding like a fuckhead on the streets, and realised the track is where I should be doing it. I've only ever done a few nat seasons and lots of street circuit racing.

But just about ALL of the mileage I've done is on real roads, on road bikes. Here, in Australia and the USA. I ride bikes every week. All types and makes, all the time. I'm 44 and have been in the industry for 25 years now.

I've taught dozens of customers and others how to ride in that time. I was asked by ACC to help them make a film about motorcycle safety. Karel Pavich has asked me often to help her with her training days.

Yet you think all I've ever done is gone fast round a 'sterile racetrack'?????

It's you that should fuck off DICKHEAD. Because as usual...you THINK you know it all...but like your bum chum Viscount...you're just a full of shit spinner with absolutely NO credentials to back up the hot air.

Katman

9th February 2011, 19:49

Once again...think you know it all...know fuck all. I actually started (road) racing really late in life. 25 in fact. I had raced moto-x since 16. But I was (like a lot of cum filled youg guys) riding like a fuckhead on the streets, and realised the track is where I should be doing it. I've only ever done a few nat seasons and lots of street circuit racing.

But just about ALL of the mileage I've done is on real roads, on road bikes. Here, in Australia and the USA. I ride bikes every week. All types and makes, all the time. I'm 44 and have been in the industry for 25 years now.

I've taught dozens of customers and others how to ride in that time. I was asked by ACC to help them make a film about motorcycle safety. Karel Pavich has asked me often to help her with her training days.

Yet you think all I've ever done is gone fast round a 'sterile racetrack'?????

It's you that should fuck off DICKHEAD. Because as usual...you THINK you know it all...but like your bum chum Viscount...you're just a full of shit spinner with absolutely NO credentials to back up the hot air.

Wow, and you still have so few clues. :tugger:

scumdog

9th February 2011, 19:50

I AM ranting on the fact, that the reporter SAID, "Police have said that had the motorcyclist been wearing a hi vis vest, the accident/tragedy (can't remember which now) may have been avoided".

Today they said "A man and child were killed in a car crash near Lake Waihola"

It was a woman and child, south of Milton

Good old media, chock-full of facts eh...

Mom

9th February 2011, 19:50

Sorry Anne but the thread never started with anything worth saying.

It was just a bunch of motorcyclists thinking they could gain a bit of sympathy by spitting tacks over an innocuous comment.

The only thing that can be seen as productive from this thread is if motorcyclists realise that crying "they didn't see me" is only going to work against them.

Alright.

You can live with what was said, and blame all bikers and how they behave, collectively for it.

I wont accept what was said.

Hi Viz wont protect me from anything on the road. If I wear orange I will look like a road cone, if I wear yellow I will look like a road worker. I still wont be seen. It is up to me to take action to keep myself safe on the road.

You stick to your message, I will stick to mine :D

Crasherfromwayback

9th February 2011, 19:51

Wow, and you still have so few clues. :tugger:

Thinking about it...you're right. I'll leave this thread to you.

Katman

9th February 2011, 19:52

Hi Viz wont protect me from anything on the road.

Hey, we agree on that at least.

Smifffy

9th February 2011, 19:52

You've experienced nothing like what I have on a motorcycle wankstain, and don't even try to pretend you have. What I've done on motorcycles would make you piss your panties Homo. And you probably still piss your 'panties', dreaming of what someone that's half handy on one can achieve.

And you obviously think you're clever. I've seen you MANY times call others here stupid, simple and or thick...when they dare call you on something. You're a bitter twisted dreamer, that often back pedals when the tide turns too much for you to cope with. You shouldn't even be involved with motorcycles. You should be a fucking parking warden. And I'm sorry any parking wardens here...I know that's insulting you.

A pissing contest!! Yay!

:woohoo:

Crasherfromwayback

9th February 2011, 19:54

A pissing contest!! Yay!

:woohoo:

You're right. My apologies. It's unfair to enter into a pissing contest with Katman. He has to sit down to pee.

scumdog

9th February 2011, 19:55

Hi Viz wont protect me from anything on the road.

So far I have yet to see proof that a headlight on, a rear brake, tread on my tyres or a horn have protected ME from anything on the road.

Might go and rip some of the items off my bike, not sure about the tread on the front wheel but I'll give it a shot.

Smifffy

9th February 2011, 19:55

Today they said "A man and child were killed in a car crash near Lake Waihola"

It was a woman and child, south of Milton

Good old media, chock-full of facts eh...

Well it would still be better if "Police Officer 3 subject NCEA" could refrain from opining on the worth of a hi-vis vest in a road fatality involving motorcycles.

Drew

9th February 2011, 20:07

Today they said "A man and child were killed in a car crash near Lake Waihola"

It was a woman and child, south of Milton

Good old media, chock-full of facts eh...

Which is what the thread was fuckin started about!

No that the cop said it, but that it was said ON THE NEWS!

FJRider

9th February 2011, 20:10

... because the thread is based on an opinion, and weather you think it's founded well or not, we know our opinion to be A FACT.

FACT BASED ON OPINION ... YOUR OPINION ... mmmmmm ... your original post stated that ... "basically he is saying" ... that is opinion not fact.

You have your opinion .... I have mine.

Personally ... I believe your opinion is full of shit ... but that is only my opinion ...

scumdog

9th February 2011, 20:11

Which is what the thread was fuckin started about!

No that the cop said it, but that it was said ON THE NEWS!

Ah, so it is the REPORTER that the KB sickle, scythe & pitchfork crew should be after, thanks for clearing that up....

Smifffy

9th February 2011, 20:12

So far I have yet to see proof that a headlight on, a rear brake, tread on my tyres or a horn have protected ME from anything on the road.

Might go and rip some of the items off my bike, not sure about the tread on the front wheel but I'll give it a shot.

I know for a fact that my headlight, rear brake and tyre tread have prevented accidents in the past. The horn I'm still not sure about, but what the hell I'll keep it for now.

Instead of a hi-vis vest, I'm thinking maybe a laser pointer shone in the eyes might get the attention of wayward cagers.

Maybe they should make that mandatory?

Drew

9th February 2011, 20:17

FACT BASED ON OPINION ... YOUR OPINION ... mmmmmm ... your original post stated that ... "basically he is saying" ... that is opinion not fact.

You have your opinion .... I have mine.

Personally ... I believe your opinion is full of shit ... but that is only my opinion ...

It is a fact, that the OP is our opinion. It is also a fact that the reason we formed an opinion, was a fuckin dumb thing being said on the news.

Is that simple enough for you, or shall I dumb it down another shade?

Drew

9th February 2011, 20:20

Ah, so it is the REPORTER that the KB sickle, scythe & pitchfork crew should be after, thanks for clearing that up....

Fuck that, it was an avenue to vent about something motorcycle related that pissed us off.

Katman chimed in and it was all on from there. Make of that what you will.

FJRider

9th February 2011, 20:21

Which is what the thread was fuckin started about!

No that the cop said it, but that it was said ON THE NEWS!

So ... it was said on the news so it must be fact ...

You really DO live in a dream world ... save yourself ... WAKE UP ...

FJRider

9th February 2011, 20:22

Fuck that, it was an avenue to vent about something motorcycle related that pissed us off.

Katman chimed in and it was all on from there. Make of that what you will.

It pissed YOU off ... from thence it started ...

Usarka

9th February 2011, 20:22

So ... it was said on the news so it must be fact ...

You really DO live in a dream world ... save yourself ... WAKE UP ...

It was FACT that it was said on the news.....

It may or may not have been said by the cop. So either the cop or the reporter is a fucktard. (in some of our opinions).

Drew

9th February 2011, 20:26

So ... it was said on the news so it must be fact ...

You really DO live in a dream world ... save yourself ... WAKE UP ...

Nope, I gotta go dumber still to penetrate your one eyed friggin reading skills.

What the reporter said, was (to my mind) an outrage.

And that is what the thread was started about.

Do you get it yet?

It was never said that she was reporting any truth, or position of the police.

Smifffy

9th February 2011, 20:27

So do we all agree then?

The statement, regardless of who made it, that:

"The rider may have lived if he had been wearing a hi-vis vest"

a. Deflects responsibility from the other party
b. Reflects unfairly on the motorcyclist
c. was unfounded and unnecessary.

Spearfish

9th February 2011, 20:34

I know for a fact that my headlight, rear brake and tyre tread have prevented accidents in the past. The horn I'm still not sure about, but what the hell I'll keep it for now.

Instead of a hi-vis vest, I'm thinking maybe a laser pointer shone in the eyes might get the attention of wayward cagers.

Maybe they should make that mandatory?

I'm not sure driving blind would stop them, in fact I'm sure a few wouldn't notice.

A loud horn is good for those times the cars mistake is in slow motion, if you know what I mean, but if the hazard requires things to happen fast the last control I'm thinking about is a horn button.

I think this high Vis jacket thing is probably complicated by the different types of riding or probably more correctly where.
Inner city stuff, interacting with other traffic is different than being alone or with a few mates on a favourite loop of open road, then the third piece are those who don't want to be told to wear one on principle. I'm not sure how many of the second group are part of the third but perhaps if the jackets are seen as a form of communication, other than the first group I mentioned, high Vis jackets don't really have anyone to comunicate with.

FJRider

9th February 2011, 20:34

It was FACT that it was said on the news.....

It may or may not have been said by the cop. So either the cop or the reporter is a fucktard. (in some of our opinions).

As I have stated in a previous post in THIS thread ... The cop may have been correct in this instance ... this one instance.

ONE time where had the rider been wearing a high vis' vest ... he May have been seen, and the "accident" avoided.

The assertion ... that this statement by the cop is an admission of future policy, and that all (or any) "accidents" in the future ... could be avoided if the riders are/were wearing a high vis vest ... I FIND STUPID. Again ... MY opinion.

Drew

9th February 2011, 20:42

The assertion ... that this statement by the cop is an admission of future policy, and that all (or any) "accidents" in the future ... could be avoided if the riders are/were wearing a high vis vest ... I FIND STUPID. Again ... MY opinion.

Totally. The statement was likely on the spot by a cop who wasn't used to a camera in his face, and he said something he heard in all this "save bikers" initiative that was on the news last week.

There is probably no depth to what he said at all, but it was careless reporting to use it. And the rest for my interest thereafter, is as precedes here.

Spearfish

9th February 2011, 20:47

I kinda hope this thread keeps going until next week for the simple reason there hasn't been another rider down to start another.

:shit: I didn't check before posting this

Wannabiker

9th February 2011, 20:47

Smifffy

9th February 2011, 20:48

As I have stated in a previous post in THIS thread ... The cop may have been correct in this instance ... this one instance.

ONE time where had the rider been wearing a high vis' vest ... he May have been seen, and the "accident" avoided.

The assertion ... that this statement by the cop is an admission of future policy, and that all (or any) "accidents" in the future ... could be avoided if the riders are/were wearing a high vis vest ... I FIND STUPID. Again ... MY opinion.

I think suggesting that the cops statement is an indicator of future policy is a bit of a reach, however I do think that it is a strong reflection of NZ Police policy.

Eg, despite that fact that an officer stepped in front of a speeding, stolen vehicle to place road spikes, the principal outcome of the internal inquiry concerned the breach of protocol in him not wearing Hi-vis.

Again I believe that the officer in question would have still lost his life that night whether he was wearing hi-vis or not.

I also believe that the responsibility for that death lies solely with the driver of the car, mitigated somewhat by the judgment of the officer in the time required to lay the spikes.

Nevertheless, I don't believe that the wearing of hi-vis would have made a blind bit of difference to the outcome of the events on that night.

Nor would it have changed the outcome of the events outlined in the OP.

lankyman

9th February 2011, 20:51

Had an episode just like this on SHW45 a couple of weeks back...driver indicated left and pulled over, a situation in which I would normally pass to the right as though nothing happened. But something made me scrub all my speed off. Maybe they were acting a little un-predictable, maybe it was intuition, but sure enough they swung a full u-turn straight in front of me...lucky i was doing ~40kph by then. The truth of the matter is that sometimes motorists are doing other shit like looking for an address, and seem to completely forget that they are in control of one and a half tonnes of steel. Someone who drives trucks for a living should know much better. Oh, and the headlight on my TL is on all the time whether I like it or not (which I do), and is at least 1000 times more noticeable than the small piece of shiny vest you would be able to see from front on behind my fairing / tinted screen. NZ police need to think long and hard before they crucify a recently deceased man. My thoughts are with his family and freinds