Anyone switched from electric cylinder to continuous flow gas hot water?

[Gareth123]

I'm interested in hearing the pro's and cons of switching over to a gas system.

I've used a gas continuous flow hot water system before and really liked it. I have no idea though whether switching over will save me any money in the long run.

[avgas]

We moved from a full electric house (average bill $80 month) to a gas electric one ($78/month electric + $45 gas month).......don't really see the point apart from the 'immediate hot water thing'.

Cheaper option would be to get on of those pumps put in you flow to the shower head - and this also feels great.

[Gareth123]

Cheaper option would be to get on of those pumps put in you flow to the shower head - and this also feels great.

So you'd still be heating a tank full of hot water?

[cmoore]

changed over from electric HWC to an Infinity system years ago....no real change in cost to run but i like being able to dial the shower temperature in.....and it made more room in the airing cupboard.....and it gave me a gas supply to the house so i could have a gas cooker.....

[scissorhands]

I have continuous and wish we just had electricity only. I would save money

[Drunken Monkey]

A hot water cylinder gives you a handy emergency backup water supply if mains is cut off for an extended length of time.

[bungbung]

The infinity style system can be a total pain when you want a small amount of water, for example at the kitchen sink. There is a delay while the system fires up and brings the water up to temp. A good compromise would be to use a small cylinder for the sink(s) and use the infinity for bath and shower.

[Grumph]

like much else in life there is no one ideal solution...
Gas option depends greatly on where in NZ you are - and the price resulting.

For us - SI rural - a small under bench cylinder for instant use and a larger conventional cylinder heating on a timer only once per day - but with a manual override if needed and a wetback too, gives us all we need.

Solar can also make a huge difference - I'm sure Ed will be along shortly....

[pzkpfw]

I don't mean to be an alarmist or anything, this post is not "the sky is falling".

But, gas will run out eventually, or at least get more and more expensive as it gets harder to suck out of the ground and we have to import more or make it out of something. *

Whereas through dams, wind turbines (or whatever) we'll always have electricity (even when we don't burn coal or gas to make it).

One day we might even all have little wind turbines on our roofs. But we won't all be making enough gas at home to make hot water with.

Given the cost savings (little) I wouldn't bother.

(But if I were building a new house, I'd maybe go solar...)


* I fully admit I have no idea if this is an issue in 5, 50 or 500 years time.

[Edbear]

Did someone call...? :innocent:

Having been in the industry for a while I'd go solar/electric if I needed to replace an electric cylinder. The problem with Rinnai or Rheem instant systems apart from what has been said here, is that without power you have no hot water unless you have a battery back-up system for the starter. You do need to tailor the system to your specs as they can't be too far away from the end tap and you can't increase the pressure either for better flow.

Some people like them, but generally you're better off with electric. We have gas for hot water, cooking and heating and the advantage is that the cylinder has a reserve storage of hot water and we can still use the hob for cooking. Our gas fire has died and I'm replacing it with one that doesn't require elctricity for the ignition or extractor fan.

The advantage of solar is in added value, much lower water-heating costs, about 60+% lower and many people have actually turned the power off altogether except for a month or so mid-Winter.

However, don't just get a salesman to sell you a system, have a talk to a qualified installer who can advise on what will suit your particular situation as there is a large variation in pricing and performance and the system needs to fit your home.

[BMWST?]

i have priced solar and the start up cost is HUGE.Most systems pay back period is beyond the guarantee period on the solar panels themselves.Some people say vacumn tube is better,some say "flat panels " are better...cant seem to find anyone who has an independent view of that cos they all seem to be one or the other.The other arguement is that the solar installion adds value to tyour house from day 1.
Re the gas thing the instant gas heating is more efficient but you have to balance that against the fact you will now pay TWO daily charges(or one daily charge and a bottle rental).
A large part of your electricty bill is hot water,and for most of that is an absolute waste...having 135 litres of hot water just sitting there for when we need it.

[steve_t]

Excellent thread! I have a massive outdoor gas heated cylinder but I basically live alone and usually only shower at home on weekends (actually 3/14 days cos I work every second saturday). I think the dishwasher heats cold water for its use and I do cold laundry. So basically, I use SFA hot water. I was thinking of pricing up getting it changed over to an instant system which should be easy with the gas lines and plumbing all there, but now I'm more hesitant. What's an Infinity type system go for these days?

Edbear, what's the go with the solar hybrid systems? Are you able to link me thru to some more info? Cheers :scooter:

[Edbear]

Heat pumps are close to the cost of solar, $5k - $6k and are as efficient as solar but you do still rely on electricity. A solar system should be between $6k and $9k depending on type of system. Both evacuated tube and flat panel are good with some preferring one of the other. I'd probably go for price here.

Most solar systems use a back up circulation pump which is electric but draws very little power and you can get a fully thermo-siphon system. Be careful in choosing your installer as some major solar companies screw the installer's price down and there are some real cowboys out there doing rushed cheap installations that are going to cause customers major headaches in a few years! My son-in-law told one of the biggest and best known solar companies to take their system and put it somewhere as they were constantly hassling him over price. They weren't interested in the quality of the installation, just the quickest and cheapest, and my son-in-law wasn't interested in damaging his rep or doing the job below his cost.

[Edbear]

Excellent thread! I have a massive outdoor gas heated cylinder but I basically live alone and usually only shower at home on weekends (actually 3/14 days cos I work every second saturday). I think the dishwasher heats cold water for its use and I do cold laundry. So basically, I use SFA hot water. I was thinking of pricing up getting it changed over to an instant system which should be easy with the gas lines and plumbing all there, but now I'm more hesitant. What's an Infinity type system go for these days?

Edbear, what's the go with the solar hybrid systems? Are you able to link me thru to some more info? Cheers :scooter:

There's little point in having a solar/gas hybrid as they will compete for the water heating. A gas system runs continuously due to the pilot light and will heat the water first with the solar being the back-up system which rather defeats the purpose unless you set it up the other way around. However as most people can turn the power off altogether with solar, the best system is solar/electric.

[Edbear]

PS. Infinity systems are around the $1200.00 - $1800.00 mark plus installation. Cheapest way to go is leave as is though you could turn the cylinder off if you're not using it for a few weeks.

[F5 Dave]

We moved to a place with a Rheem, or Rinai or whatever instant.

We love it, but it ain't any cheaper, gas got more expensive eclipsing the saving. Well that said maybe the wife's showers just got longer. We did re do the kitchen feed by replacing it with a thinner pipe as the system was a ways from the kitchen. Can't tell that it limits flow & speeds up delivery somewhat than a thicker pipe.

When gas gets scarce not sure what will go for. Want to see how long modern Solar is lasting for. no point if it craps out in 10 years.

[steve_t]

Cheapest way to go is leave as is...

Excellent. Thank you for your expert opinion :drinkup:

[Gareth123]

yeah I have a big cylinder and I'm the only one living here. Thats why I though gas would be a good option as I never ever use heaps of hot water. Only for showers for me.

[Edbear]

Excellent. Thank you for your expert opinion :drinkup:

LOL!!! You know what they say about experts... :yes: I'm not an expert, just what I've heard, learned or experienced in the industry. There will be those, mainly Rinnai reps, who will swear by instant systems and perhaps for your particular needs one would work well. It really depends on how much you want to spend for possibly little gain.

[Edbear]

yeah I have a big cylinder and I'm the only one living here. Thats why I though gas would be a good option as I never ever use heaps of hot water. Only for showers for me.

If you have an older cylinder, I'd suggest getting a wrap for it and asking your power company about putting it on ripple control. For future value, should you want to sell your house, you need to have a hot water system suited to the potential number of occupants otherwise it could out people off.

[Grumph]

Depends too, which end of the day you want most of your hot water...we've got ours on a timer which heats in the early am as we use most bulk hot in the morning.
If as can happen with kids for instance you want most in the evenings, just reset the timer accordingly.
Simply changing to ripple control or a timer is probably the bigget saving you can make while staying on electricity.

[pzkpfw]

Simply changing to ripple control or a timer is probably the bigget saving you can make while staying on electricity.

I had no idea that was optional - I thought HWC were always like that.

How do I find out? Would it be on my bill? (Never looked at it).

[Edbear]

I had no idea that was optional - I thought HWC were always like that.

How do I find out? Would it be on my bill? (Never looked at it).

Just give your power company a call and they'll soon tell you if you're on it and can put you on it straight away of you're not.

[Flip]

IMHO it depends on the hot water load.

Small load (1-4 people) electric cylinder. Med load (4-8 people) LPG bottles and a large load (8+ especially teenage girls) Nat gas.

Last time I checked the $/kw goes something like electric 20c kwh, lpg14c kwh, Nat gas 12c kwh (all from memory) however there is a small cylinder rental on LPG bottles and a stupidly large fixed supply charge on piped Nat Gas supply. I used to have a calculator that calculated the right solution depending on the area the number of people and also the gas suppliers available in the area. I was the engineer for a gas company and developed the tool for the sales staff.

Oh the new Rinni's are very good. I honestly would not bother with the electronic adjustable inside thermostat, its just a gimmick. I have 3 of them and I have never had a problem with any of them.

[Edbear]

IMHO it depends on the hot water load.

Small load (1-4 people) electric cylinder. Med load (4-8 people) LPG bottles and a large load (8+ especially teenage girls) Nat gas.

Last time I checked the $/kw goes something like electric 20c kwh, lpg14c kwh, Nat gas 12c kwh (all from memory) however there is a small cylinder rental on LPG bottles and a stupidly large fixed supply charge on piped Nat Gas supply. I used to have a calculator that calculated the right solution depending on the area the number of people and also the gas suppliers available in the area. I was the engineer for a gas company and developed the tool for the sales staff.

Oh the new Rinni's are very good. I honestly would not bother with the electronic adjustable inside thermostat, its just a gimmick. I have 3 of them and I have never had a problem with any of them.

Yeah, it's that fixed daily charge that has pretty much negated the advantage we had of NG, and while I haven't done the calculation lately I doubt we're saving a lot, if anything over electricity, which is a shame as it's going to put a lot of people off going to gas. I like it as an energy source, esp for the fire as I'm over the gathering/buying firewood thing and if you have to buy firewood a log fire is too dear to run these days anyway. We've got a 260lt gas HWC and we don't run out of hot water at all.

[munster]

Our old James Hardie external gas hot water cylinder shit itself right before Xmas.

With a bit of quick research I decided on external natural gas continuous hot water. Picked up a brand new unit off trademe for $1150 (Rinnai Infinity 27L), with full 10 year manufacturers warranty. Gasfitter $600, Sparkie $150.

I found this page useful

http://www.energywise.govt.nz/how-to-be-energy-efficient/your-house/hot-water/choosing-the-right-water-heating-system

Particularly this graph.

<img src="http://www.energywise.govt.nz/sites/all/files/hot-water-running-costs-graph-05-10.JPG" border="0" alt="" />

[oldrider]

I'm interested in hearing the pro's and cons of switching over to a gas system.

I've used a gas continuous flow hot water system before and really liked it. I have no idea though whether switching over will save me any money in the long run.

We have got all three, gas califonte, wetback, electric cylinder and can switch back and forth within seconds at will!

Our power gas and fuel bills are minimal. (Two people, with family or visitors here and there)

In the summer months we use gas hot water all the time.

In spring and Autumn we alternate between gas and wetback depending on the weather.

In the winter only ever have system selected to the wetback unless we have been away and need instant hotwater, then we select the gas until the fire has been on long enough to go back to the wetback!

Just don't even bother with the electricity in fact we never have cause to turn it on!

Only use gas califonte in the garage guest onsuite hotwater! (where bikers stay)

Works for us, fuel electricity and gas bills are minimal too!

Use heat pumps to regulate the house temperature and to keep the fire from boiling the cylinder (wetback) and using too much wood.

Heatpumps are good for short periods of heating morning or night during spring or Autumn too.

Very versatile economical little house! :yes:

PS: The only thing missing is a little booster pump on the hot water line to raise the house shower pressure a bit when it is on the low pressure wetback system!

Problem is it is so close to being right I forget about having to install the pump! :rolleyes:

[munster]

Further, on looking at our gas bill since we changed from natural gas hot water cylinder to natural gas continuous, the gas usage has definitely dropped, but the dollar amount has stayed the same since they put the bloody charges up!

[Usarka]

So you'd still be heating a tank full of hot water?

Because they feed off the cold water supply you can have a much smaller hot water cylinder. Smaller cylinder and/or not drawing on it as often = easier and cheaper to heat.

[avgas]

Just give your power company a call and they'll soon tell you if you're on it and can put you on it straight away of you're not.
I think they will also being doing "special deals" for customers to get them on smart grid. So its also worth inquiring about that.

Some of the smart grid homes have halved their power bills.

[avgas]

the best system is solar/electric.
What he said.
Recently stayed with a friend whom installed this system. Said he was making $1000 year off the power co's as he was at work 12 hours of the day and only really came home to have shower, and watch TV.
Usually using 0.2-0.4kwh day max. System was generating 10 times that a day.
And the best thing was when ever the grid went down his house was still go.

He said only downside was batteries - he spends about $500/year on them and cap banks.

If I owned a house I know the first thing that would go into it........

[The Pastor]

What he said.
Recently stayed with a friend whom installed this system. Said he was making $1000 year off the power co's as he was at work 12 hours of the day and only really came home to have shower, and watch TV.
Usually using 0.2-0.4kwh day max. System was generating 10 times that a day.
And the best thing was when ever the grid went down his house was still go.

He said only downside was batteries - he spends about $500/year on them and cap banks.

If I owned a house I know the first thing that would go into it........

Yeah if you get solar, get way bigger pannels than you need an chuck it all to battery. We have small solar panel (hot water only) and no battery, we basically only get free hot water in the summer, in winter the electric is turned on all the time.

[scumdog]

We have a heat pump and a 'lectric hot water cylinder - with a wet-back.

Running costs are modest.

But then most of the time there's only two of us here.