Too many classes at National Championship?

[Biggles08]

Here's a topic that most likely has already been talked about before but after this weekend gone I think it warrants another look.

I have always found it strange that both Superbikes/Superstock 1000 and 600 Sport/Stock only get two races per national round? It is a massive commitment for most people involved in getting to these events for 40min of racing at the most. For us, we get to the track about a week before the race to setup bikes and get some practice in for the race, so this involves expenses of gas, tires, trackday fees, accommodation, food plus many more expenses. The question has to be asked, is it worth it...esspecially for the rounds that get no TV coverage for the sponsors that pay for much of this? It seems Invercargil suffers from average weather at the best of times come the National Rounds, which makes the trip even less attractive for people traveling from the North Island when the meeting is canceled. I realize it was unforseeable and the cancellation of the round was most definately the correct option but this is not the point I'm making (I digress). I would say the same applies to the South Island racers coming up for the Hampton Downs round applies equally.

The point is...why do we need clubmans, supermotards, streetstock, sidecars, etc at national rounds taking up time AT THE EXPENSE OF THE PREMIER CLASSES?

In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) I think it should be 125cc or 250cc (new class), Pro Twins / F3, 600 Superstock/sport, and Superbike/Stock allowing more races throughout the day for these classes. It would be nice to be on track before 9.30am at every meeting too...

I have always found it strange that the two classes that most 'jo public' come to see only get two races throughout the weekend, whereas many other minor classes get three (even if they are shorter races).

Thoughts?

Biggles.

[sinfull]

The point is...why do we need clubmans, supermotards, streetstock, sidecars, etc at national rounds taking up time AT THE EXPENSE OF THE PREMIER CLASSES?

In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) I think it should be 125cc or 250cc (new class), Pro Twins / F3, 600 Superstock/sport, and Superbike/Stock allowing more races throughout the day for these classes. It would be nice to be on track before 9.30am at every meeting too...

I have always found it strange that the two classes that most 'jo public' come to see only get two races throughout the weekend, whereas many other minor classes get three (even if they are shorter races).

Thoughts?

Biggles. Think your gonna get burned here !

[Str8 Jacket]

Depends what *you* class as a "premier class". I betcha that your opinion would be different to mine and so on and so on..... ;)

[Quasievil]

The entire format of the NZ Nationals needs to change, I have been on about this for a long time.
Dragging riders from the bottom to the top of NZ over a course of weeks is simply stupid, its costly and its pointless for what are actually fairly small fields.
Reduce the number of events and reduce the number of classes and make it a premier event instead of "a jack of all trades master of none" If I go to the Nationals I dont want to see Streetstock or Motards either, sub classes shouldnt be involved.

What we need is less race events (3 in the SI is dum) which will reduce the costs which will increase the riders numbers which will make a better show, which means (you guessed it) more public, and that means better sponsorship opportunities and more businesses wanting to get involved.

My Format would be 3 events only Ruapuna, Manfeild, Hampton thats it.

[Nonbeliever]

Lose at least two clasess :
the motards (back to the farm guys), and
the "sidecars" (which should be run at a go cart meet).

[Nonbeliever]

My Format would be 3 events only Ruapuna, Manfeild, Hampton thats it.


If it's going to change have at least the same number of tracks per island.

2 in the south 2 in the north
3 in the south 3 in the north

[wayne]

if you want less classes, are you willing to pay 50% more entry fees ?

[Duke girl]

Those classes that you ask why do we need them out there HAVE every right to be out there as much as the Superbikes & 600 class. They pay their money to compete just like you all do. Not everyone who gets into racing has the money or the support from having sponsors to compete in the bigger classes as to me its more important about getting bums on seats to keep this Sport Alive and going, without dictating about who should be there and who shouldn't be.

And Yes it is bloody pathetic that there is NO Advertising either on TV or radio/paper about the Nationals being on.

[Quasievil]

if you want less classes, are you willing to pay 50% more entry fees ?

A sponsor would pick that up, if more people came , no probs :yes:

[k14]

And Yes it is bloody pathetic that there is NO Advertising either on TV or radio/paper about the Nationals being on.
Well you obviously haven't been in Timaru or Invercargill the last two weeks. Every ad break on the radio there was a mention of the racing on that weekend in the particular town it was being held. Also I saw a few ads on TV even during the news. They aren't going to advertise there is racing at Timaru in Wellington :facepalm:

[Quasievil]

Those classes that you ask why do we need them out there HAVE every right to be out there as much as the Superbikes & 600 class. They pay their money to compete just like you all do. Not everyone who gets into racing has the money or the support from having sponsors to compete in the bigger classes as to me its more important about getting bums on seats to keep this Sport Alive and going, without dictating about who should be there and who shouldn't be.

And Yes it is bloody pathetic that there is NO Advertising either on TV or radio/paper about the Nationals being on.

With respect I dont agree
isnt this the NZ Nationals ?
do you have streetstocks and Motards runnng at Phillip island during the GP ?
do you have Japanese salloon cars (honda civis, Evos, WRX etc) running at the V8 Super car rounds ?
Etc Etc Etc
No you dont, they have there own races and events
The NZ Nationals should be the top riders , the premier classes , the guys who have worked there way to the top from the streetstock etc etc

its about marketing baby :yes:

[k14]

do you have streetstocks and Motards runnng at Phillip island during the GP ?
do you have Japanese salloon cars (honda civis, Evos, WRX etc) running at the V8 Super car rounds ?
Actually there are plenty of support classes at both of those events. At the Philip Island MotoGP they have classics, 600's and 1000's supporting the event. The same sort of step down from having Streetstock and Motards supporting our nationals. I have never been to a V8 event but I am pretty sure they have plenty of support classes there, Porsches, Suzuki Swifts, Formula Fords, Toyota racers.

To be honest the best reason I can think of for needing support classes is so that you have enough time between races to make changes and/or repair bikes if you crash. Do you know how long it takes to even change a set of tyres? Let alone revalve a rear shock, modify front fork dampers, replace a handlebar, clean out mud from the bike. As it is you usually only have 2-3 hours between races and unless you have half a dozen support crew it is all very time consuming.

[nodrog]

do you have Japanese salloon cars (honda civis, Evos, WRX etc) running at the V8 Super car rounds ?


Were they all Ford Suzuki V8 swifts running around Hamilton last year?

Fanny.

[Quasievil]

yes thats correct I know of the support classes, but they are usually significantly sponsored and elite.
Motards and Streetstock for example are usually not.

[cowboyz]

from my point of view. nationals should be the elite only. F1/2/3 and the GP bikes. as much racing as you can possibly fit into a day.

[k14]

yes thats correct I know of the support classes, but they are usually significantly sponsored and elite.
Motards and Streetstock for example are usually not.
WTF? How are suzuki swift's elite?

[Kickaha]

The point is...why do we need clubmans, supermotards, streetstock, sidecars, etc at national rounds taking up time AT THE EXPENSE OF THE PREMIER CLASSES?

Why do we need 600 and 1000 taking up time at the expense of clubmans, supermotards, streetstock, sidecars, etc when these classes would have the majority of competitors in them?

Who say they're the premier classes? If that was all that was on offer I wouldn't bother going to watch


I have always found it strange that the two classes that most 'jo public' come to see only get two races throughout the weekend, whereas many other minor classes get three (even if they are shorter races).

Got something to back that statement about Jo public up?

They get more laps in those two races than we get in three

[Wingnut]

if you want less classes, are you willing to pay 50% more entry fees ?

That is exactly what I was thinking - the support classes are somewhat subsidising the "Premier" classes entry costs by being included.


A sponsor would pick that up, if more people came , no probs :yes:

Yea - and they are just knocking down the NZSBK doors.............

At Levels they ran the Motards in a split start with the Clubmans so they were hardly taking alot of track time away. And some of the motard racing was quite good.

The sidecars, although it is nice for them to be able to run at the Nats, was the most boring racing I had watched in a long time. Sorry to those that race in this class but from a spectators perspective it appears to be little more than circulating.

Streetstock is vital - its grass roots! I guess you can't and won't please everbody.

I'm just glad to see the superbikes with healthier numbers on the grid and the 600s was excellent racing.

[Biggles08]

Why do we need 600 and 1000 taking up time at the expense of clubmans, supermotards, streetstock, sidecars, etc when these classes would have the majority of competitors in them?

Who say they're the premier classes? If that was all that was on offer I wouldn't bother going to watch



Got something to back that statement about Jo public up?

They get more laps in those two races than we get in three

I would have included sidecars in the list too Kick but the simple fact is 3-4 side cars does not a race make.

[Quasievil]

WTF? How are suzuki swift's elite?

Ask Bamber or Fogg

Look at the significant sponsors they have, LG for example
they are a viable support class as are Porsche and the NZ V8s, what isnt a viable support class would be perhaps a 1973 ford escort rust bucket slapped together last week in time for the ITM400 by Dad and his mate over a crate of beer, which I would equate to buckets and streetstocks and in many cases Motards

Im not sure if you understand my point

[nodrog]

WTF? How are suzuki swift's elite?

They arent, they are basically the streetstock of the motor racing scene, albeit with a vehicle supplier.

Fanny.

[White trash]

I would have included sidecars in the list too Kick but the simple fact is 3-4 side cars does not a race make.

You not got many fingers? There were seven sidecars at Timaru, occupying four rows.

[Quasievil]

Yea - and they are just knocking down the NZSBK doors.............



not in the curent format they arent, you can buy naming rights to the entire Nationals round for $10 k...............pathetic amount of money really.

[Biggles08]

You not got many fingers? There were seven sidecars at Timaru, occupying four rows.
Invercargil? I believe about 5-6 I think....anyway, the point still stands

[Kickaha]

I would have included sidecars in the list too Kick but the simple fact is 3-4 side cars does not a race make.

We make the minimum grid required by MNZ, not so many years ago the requirement was 10 it was changed to six when the 1000cc bikes couldn't make minimum numbers


what isnt a viable support class would be perhaps a 1973 ford escort rust bucket slapped together last week in time for the ITM400 by Dad and his mate over a crate of beer, which I would equate to buckets and streetstocks and in many cases Motards

You obviously haven't looked at to many Buckets or Streetstocks down here lately in many cases the presentation would put other classes to shame


Invercargil? I believe about 5-6 I think....anyway, the point still stands
Counting really isn't your strong point is it?

Oh yeah Biggles don't forget to start going on about how there should be more rounds in the North as well

[k14]

Ask Bamber or Fogg

Look at the significant sponsors they have, LG for example
they are a viable support class as are Porsche and the NZ V8s, what isnt a viable support class would be perhaps a 1973 ford escort rust bucket slapped together last week in time for the ITM400 by Dad and his mate over a crate of beer, which I would equate to buckets and streetstocks and in many cases Motards

Im not sure if you understand my point
No, I don't understand your point. I think the above post shows how ignorant you are when it comes to NZ racing. When was the last time you raced at a nationals round? Have you looked at the numbers from this year's fields? I think the current format is fine. Yes, we would always love more sponsors and MNZ has some scope to improve the championship.

Your points about having less rounds is valid but I can't see why the north island should have 2 and the south have 1. Go and look at previous entry numbers and you will see the SI rounds usually have more entries than the north. As for classes, go and look at the championships around the world (bike racing only that is). They all have support classes of various descriptions. That part of it is not broken and this is the first time I have heard anyone complaining about the lack of track time at nationals.

[Biggles08]

We make the minimum grid required by MNZ, not so many years ago the requirement was 10 it was changed to six when the 1000cc bikes couldn't make minimum numbers



You obviously haven't looked at to many Buckets down here lately in many cases the presentation would put other classes to shame


Counting really isn't your strong point is it?

Oh yeah Biggles don't forget to start going on about how there should be more rounds in the North as well

I was just thinking the North island should have more rounds...:innocent:

[Kickaha]

I was just thinking the North island should have more rounds...:innocent:

Pity you don't have clubs up there that are interested in running them

[Biggles08]

No, I don't understand your point. I think the above post shows how ignorant you are when it comes to NZ racing. When was the last time you raced at a nationals round? Have you looked at the numbers from this year's fields? I think the current format is fine. Yes, we would always love more sponsors and MNZ has some scope to improve the championship.

Your points about having less rounds is valid but I can't see why the north island should have 2 and the south have 1. Go and look at previous entry numbers and you will see the SI rounds usually have more entries than the north. As for classes, go and look at the championships around the world (bike racing only that is). They all have support classes of various descriptions. That part of it is not broken and this is the first time I have heard anyone complaining about the lack of track time at nationals.

A bit abrasive K14...Quasi has plenty of experience to make a comment on this issue and is involved in motorcycling in NZ most likely more than I am. His points are relevant from a sponsorship side of things. I don't think how many rounds held in the NI vs the SI is the issue here and I don't have an issue with how it is currently spread (although I would love Taupo to be included also). I am merely highlighting the lack of time Superbikes and 600's get racing due to the day not being long enough to cater for everyone. Regardless if you race in any other class or not, the simple fact is Streetstock or similar is not what Jo Public come to see...they are there for the fastest bikes and it is evident to see when the fences lined with people disappear when these support classes line up on the grid. I do think people are fascinated by the sidecars (and the lack of braincells their pilots have) too and it would be good to see 10 competitive machines lined up on the grid ready to race at National level.

I agree with Quasi and others above in that the NZSBK Nationals is a premium event that needs to be marketed that way and if there is time for support classes fair enough but at the very least on the Saturday Superbikes and 600's should get a race too.

[Quasievil]

No, I don't understand your point. I think the above post shows how ignorant you are when it comes to NZ racing. When was the last time you raced at a nationals round? Have you looked at the numbers from this year's fields? I think the current format is fine. Yes, we would always love more sponsors and MNZ has some scope to improve the championship.



Having raced at the nationals isnt a prerequisite to having a brain

I dont think Im ignorant on it really, I dont profess to know everything, but I do know that the event is costly and from that prohibitive to alot of riders, I also know that the event is not exactly high on the agendas for the general populas to go and see..............boring ? not much of a show? maybe, but certainly the current mold is not what I would call good, or anywhere near it.
The event can be alot better than it currently is, the numbers are NOT there, spectators numbers are pathetic and the actual "show" is far from attracting decent numbers of people to enable greater sponsorship opportunities.
Until Radical changes are made the NZ Nationals will continue to be a bit of a bore it will continue to attract low spectator numbers and fields that are hit and miss year on year.

Do any of you on the opposing view point ever complain about not getting any sponsorship? do you know why you arent getting sponsorship, the reason is Bike racing is NOT a popular activity for the general population (the Mum and Dad and the Kids) to go and see, hence the events do not attract money from sponsors, the "SHOW" is all wrong, you are competing with many other opportunities for the public to spend their dollar and you are rarely even getting in the choice set................Bring the show the people will come, get the people the dollars will come...............stick to the current same ole boring model and you will keep getting the same outcomes, no people, no money, no sponsorship


Lastly do some of you think that Buckets should be in the Nationals as well ? we can also perhaps ad the Vespa guys they love a good race, where do you want to stop?

[scott411]

my personal opinion is that along with the MX nationals and the Sx nationals, is as long as they are run by a committee they will continue to be average, until a series organinser, or a dreaded "promoter" is put in charge, and allowed to have a go at improving the series, and given the leeway to make some drastic changes then we will be destined to continue to have average series,

[wharfy]

if you want less classes, are you willing to pay 50% more entry fees ?

For the National classes the entry fees are not the major expense transport,accommodation,tyres, repairs :( (if your unlucky) are the biggies.

While the idea of a "series" is partly to test teams ability to set up for different conditions, partly to remove the "luck" factor and partly (at least once upon a time) to allow locals the chance to watch. The first two could be accomplished by having a three round series alternating between the North and South Islands each year. The locals don't come to watch anyway as far as I can tell.

Perhaps even a two week "Carnival" alternating between Islands. I think most racers in NZ would find it easier to get two weeks of work at the end of February and set up for a fortnight at one track than have to have two or three days a week spread over a month and a half All the resources for promotion could be concentrated as well

Currently the top two classes get ten races (two at each round) I'm pretty sure if the whole thing was at one track they could get 20 or more (if run at a track without time restrictions) and you raced on a couple of week days as well that would allow you to be able to drop your worst couple of races, so a DNF (for whatever reason) would not spell the end of your series chances.


Admittedly the riders would be knackered after two weeks of solid racing and practice but they are knackered now with traipsing around the county...

I have never done the Nationals but have done the Tri-Series (twice) and the biggest hassle was getting there and back for each round.

[CHOPPA]

my personal opinion is that along with the MX nationals and the Sx nationals, is as long as they are run by a committee they will continue to be average, until a series organinser, or a dreaded "promoter" is put in charge, and allowed to have a go at improving the series, and given the leeway to make some drastic changes then we will be destined to continue to have average series,

I have to agree Scotty. The attitude of (some) of the people that run the meetings is absolutely appalling. Its costs us riders tens of thousands of dollars to compete and the organisers have the attitude well we are not making any money so we dont give a f#$k how the meeting runs. If you dont like it go home and we are volunteers we cant be expected to do our jobs properly attitude is not right. I would have the same attitude if I were doing it out of the goodness of my heart and people starting winging as well so I dont really blame them id like to see them getting paid because no matter what the riders do to come at this game with a professional approach it doesnt change anything if the organisers are not professional.

Im just comparing the diff between the professionally run Tri Series to the Nationals. Id love to see a professional promoter get hold of it.

When im done racing I will do my bit on the other side of the fence

[Kickaha]

my personal opinion is that along with the MX nationals and the Sx nationals, is as long as they are run by a committee they will continue to be average, until a series organinser, or a dreaded "promoter" is put in charge, and allowed to have a go at improving the series, and given the leeway to make some drastic changes then we will be destined to continue to have average series,

That idea has been suggested before and I personally think it's a good one but I'm not sure you'd find a promoter willing to take it on

[javawocky]

... the simple fact is Streetstock or similar is not what Jo Public come to see...

Streetstocks should be limited to Club meetings as well as Clubmans.

Side[cars] - I have seen sidecar racing at Silverstone with fields of probably 20+ and its probably the most exciting racing I have seen. We respect to the boys and girls that do it here, sorry its a yawn feast when 5-7 'cars' :Pokey: circulate at vastly different speeds.

Chook Chasers - Don't look now, but they are probably the biggest fields and are a major crowd pleaser. Just run the 450 < and 450 > in the same class, unlike W[h]anganui

So, my pick for classes...
F1 - Super and Stock
F2 - Super and Stock
F3 - And GP 125 if numbers are low
Motards
Posties / Bears - if there is time.

[CHOPPA]

The feeder classes like the 150s have to stay imo

[scott411]

That idea has been suggested before and I personally think it's a good one but I'm not sure you'd find a promoter willing to take it on

you are right, that is why i put a series organiser in as well, i think that on both sides of the sport they people that make the rules, (the comission) also run the series, and i think it needs to seperated, it is to much for one group to do,

MNZ is about making events fun safe and fair, which is why it is there, i think it is a different challange to make the event marketable,

[scott411]

The feeder classes like the 150s have to stay imo

agree with you there choppa, esp now with a pathway to the world superbikes support class as well, although the 150's will be phased out with the pro lite 250 twins taking over as time goes by with bike availablilty etc

[TLR luva]

Here's a topic that most likely has already been talked about before but after this weekend gone I think it warrants another look.

I have always found it strange that both Superbikes/Superstock 1000 and 600 Sport/Stock only get two races per national round? It is a massive commitment for most people involved in getting to these events for 40min of racing at the most. For us, we get to the track about a week before the race to setup bikes and get some practice in for the race, so this involves expenses of gas, tires, trackday fees, accommodation, food plus many more expenses. The question has to be asked, is it worth it...esspecially for the rounds that get no TV coverage for the sponsors that pay for much of this? It seems Invercargil suffers from average weather at the best of times come the National Rounds, which makes the trip even less attractive for people traveling from the North Island when the meeting is canceled. I realize it was unforseeable and the cancellation of the round was most definately the correct option but this is not the point I'm making (I digress). I would say the same applies to the South Island racers coming up for the Hampton Downs round applies equally.

The point is...why do we need clubmans, supermotards, streetstock, sidecars, etc at national rounds taking up time AT THE EXPENSE OF THE PREMIER CLASSES?

In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) I think it should be 125cc or 250cc (new class), Pro Twins / F3, 600 Superstock/sport, and Superbike/Stock allowing more races throughout the day for these classes. It would be nice to be on track before 9.30am at every meeting too...

I have always found it strange that the two classes that most 'jo public' come to see only get two races throughout the weekend, whereas many other minor classes get three (even if they are shorter races).

Thoughts?

Biggles.

Interesting, some of the clubmans werent to far off your time mate, so if you are in the premium class and some clubmans riders are only marginally slower why should they get dropped from competing, they can still get round ok. Personally I like all classes as long as the competition is close and exciting to watch. Having premium class riders getting lapped is not very interesting to me.

[Kickaha]

MNZ is about making events fun safe and fair, which is why it is there, i think it is a different challange to make the event marketable,

This wasn't really about making it marketable it was about rearranging the classes so certain classes got more racing


The feeder classes like the 150s have to stay imo

Definitely, it is very good experience for them to run at these events


Interesting, some of the clubmans werent to far off your time mate, so if you are in the premium class and some clubmans riders are only marginally slower why should they get dropped from competing,

Don't be mean to Marcus he would have got 6th in F3 (on a 600 at levels)

[wharfy]

I have to agree Scotty. The attitude of the people that run the meetings is absolutely appalling. Its costs us riders tens of thousands of dollars to compete and the organisers have the attitude well we are not making any money so we dont give a f#$k how the meeting runs. If you dont like it go home and we are volunteers we cant be expected to do our jobs properly attitude is not right. I would have the same attitude if I were doing it out of the goodness of my heart and people starting winging as well so I dont really blame them id like to see them getting paid because no matter what the riders do to come at this game with a professional approach it doesnt change anything if the organisers are not professional.

Im just comparing the diff between the professionally run Tri Series to the Nationals. Id love to see a professional promoter get hold of it.

When im done racing I will do my bit on the other side of the fence

There is a bit of truth in there Choppa, I have been involved (in a small way) with running two National rounds and it was a shit load of work for a small number of people and the club lost money each time. We tried really hard to make it run as smooth as possible (and didn't do to badly I think) but we didn't have the money or the energy to do it this year (good on PMCC for picking it up)


Yeah, the Tri-Series people did do a pretty good job - they even listened to some of the feedback from the previous year about Whanganui ( I don't suppose there will ever be enough dunny's with that many people eating junk food and drinking Tui :sick: )

It would be interesting to see if the Tri-Series people would be keen on running the Nationals if they were given the chance. I'm guessing they lost money at HD and Manfield and can't see how they could make money from the Nationals in the current format.
But hey - I'm not a promoter :)

[Shorty_925]

(good on PMCC for picking it up)


You sure about that one?

[k14]

Having raced at the nationals isnt a prerequisite to having a brain

I dont think Im ignorant on it really, I dont profess to know everything, but I do know that the event is costly and from that prohibitive to alot of riders, I also know that the event is not exactly high on the agendas for the general populas to go and see..............boring ? not much of a show? maybe, but certainly the current mold is not what I would call good, or anywhere near it.
The event can be alot better than it currently is, the numbers are NOT there, spectators numbers are pathetic and the actual "show" is far from attracting decent numbers of people to enable greater sponsorship opportunities.
Until Radical changes are made the NZ Nationals will continue to be a bit of a bore it will continue to attract low spectator numbers and fields that are hit and miss year on year.

Do any of you on the opposing view point ever complain about not getting any sponsorship? do you know why you arent getting sponsorship, the reason is Bike racing is NOT a popular activity for the general population (the Mum and Dad and the Kids) to go and see, hence the events do not attract money from sponsors, the "SHOW" is all wrong, you are competing with many other opportunities for the public to spend their dollar and you are rarely even getting in the choice set................Bring the show the people will come, get the people the dollars will come...............stick to the current same ole boring model and you will keep getting the same outcomes, no people, no money, no sponsorship


Lastly do some of you think that Buckets should be in the Nationals as well ? we can also perhaps ad the Vespa guys they love a good race, where do you want to stop?
Sorry if it was strongly worded (or "abrasive") but I don't think you do have a full understanding of the racing scene in NZ. Your comment about buckets was flippant and uninformed. Some bikes have more work put into them than stroud or bugdens bikes put together. Go along to a bucket meet one day and you will see some of the good ones, along with bad ones. As you sometimes see at nationals. And no I would be very surprised if anyone wanted buckets at nationals :)

I used to get a little disappointed about not getting sponsorship but now days I am resigned to the fact that I won't get anything significant. To be honest I have decided to give up racing after this year partly due to the fact that the nationals are such a shambles. Due to being a shift worker I have had to take more than 3/4 of my annual leave just to compete at the SI rounds. For a small country it is too cumbersome for the racers to expect them to take all their leave just to race in January and March.

As I have said in previous threads about this topic, reduce it to 4 rounds (2 north and 2 south). Make the Hampton and Ruapuna rounds compulsory and one of the other two optional (Levels and Manfeild could alternate with Teretonga and Taupo). The competitors points from Hampton and Ruapuna count and then one of the others. So if you do all 4 rounds you get to drop the worst one. If you only want to commit to three rounds, do the two in your island and then Ruapuna or Hampton in the other island.

[Quasievil]

Sorry if it was strongly worded (or "abrasive") but I don't think you do have a full understanding of the racing scene in NZ. Your comment about buckets was flippant and uninformed. Some bikes have more work put into them than stroud or bugdens bikes put together. Go along to a bucket meet one day and you will see some of the good ones, along with bad ones. As you sometimes see at nationals. And no I would be very surprised if anyone wanted buckets at nationals :)

I used to get a little disappointed about not getting sponsorship but now days I am resigned to the fact that I won't get anything significant. To be honest I have decided to give up racing after this year partly due to the fact that the nationals are such a shambles. Due to being a shift worker I have had to take more than 3/4 of my annual leave just to compete at the SI rounds. For a small country it is too cumbersome for the racers to expect them to take all their leave just to race in January and March.

As I have said in previous threads about this topic, reduce it to 4 rounds (2 north and 2 south). Make the Hampton and Ruapuna rounds compulsory and one of the other two optional (Levels and Manfeild could alternate with Teretonga and Taupo). The competitors points from Hampton and Ruapuna count and then one of the others. So if you do all 4 rounds you get to drop the worst one. If you only want to commit to three rounds, do the two in your island and then Ruapuna or Hampton in the other island.

Dude this is KB, I been since 2003 lol

Maybe Flippant and uninformed, but from a Marketing perspective please sell me the idea about watchin Buckets going around the tracks the nationals go.............................have a go !!! I doubt you will inspire me to come, frankly I couldnt imagine a more boring form of motorsport.

Sell a show, a real show something for Dad Mum and the Kids, make a spectacle, crowds will come and with it corporate interest, then money will come to the racers
and youre woes will be over my freind.

didnt I sponsor you something a while ago ?:innocent:

[wharfy]

You sure about that one?

Not really - somebody did - maybe Manawatu-Orion ?

Do you know ?

[scott411]

Not really - somebody did - maybe Manawatu-Orion ?

Do you know ?

you were right the second time,

[k14]

Dude this is KB, I been since 2003 lol

Maybe Flippant and uninformed, but from a Marketing perspective please sell me the idea about watchin Buckets going around the tracks the nationals go.............................have a go !!! I doubt you will inspire me to come, frankly I couldnt imagine a more boring form of motorsport.

Sell a show, a real show something for Dad Mum and the Kids, make a spectacle, crowds will come and with it corporate interest, then money will come to the racers
and youre woes will be over my freind.

didnt I sponsor you something a while ago ?:innocent:
Don't worry, as I said buckets are not a national class and don't want to be there, we're on the same page for that point!

Yep you helped me out a few years back, for which i was very grateful. I tried my best to give you value for your $$ but as is the case with bike racing in NZ it is nearly impossible to justify financially sponsoring even the best. Next to no tv coverage and bugger all spectators at the events. Unless the sponsor has some emotional attachment to the sport/rider then they would never in their right mind give stuff away for free.

I know that we could do better but there needs to be a lot of work to go into it and I don't see anyone putting their hand up. When I hear how much it costs to run a NZV8 for a season I wonder how on earth they manage it. The 600 and 1000 racing is every bit as good (if not better) from a spectators point of view but people prefer to watch the tin tops.

The first thing that needs to be worked out is what is the goal? Are we trying to get another NZ rider to MotoGP or WSBK? Or are we just trying to make the racing in NZ sustainable? So many different ways to go about it.

[DEATH_INC.]

As for classes, go and look at the championships around the world (bike racing only that is). They all have support classes of various descriptions.
Correct. SUPPORT classes, but not run at the expense of the premier classes. Imagine if wsbk dropped a race besause the bmw series need more time....not gonna happen. Or to fit another support class, again, it wouldn't happen...

some of the clubmans werent to far off your time mate, so if you are in the premium class and some clubmans riders are only marginally slower why should they get dropped from competing,

Simple, it's the nationals, clubmans is to get people started in racing, if they're that fast, they should be running the 'premier' classes.

[k14]

Correct. SUPPORT classes, but not run at the expense of the premier classes. Imagine if wsbk dropped a race besause the bmw series need more time....not gonna happen. Or to fit another support class, again, it wouldn't happen....
But no one has lost track time because the support classes are running! In fact when there is an issue with time the support classes are the first to have their races shortened or completely canned, as has happened on multiple occasions in the past. It has been running this way ever since I started racing and this is the first time I have heard any grumblings of the support classes taking up "valuable" track time for the "premier classes".

[DEATH_INC.]

But no one has lost track time because the support classes are running! In fact when there is an issue with time the support classes are the first to have their races shortened or completely canned, as has happened on multiple occasions in the past. It has been running this way ever since I started racing and this is the first time I have heard any grumblings of the support classes taking up "valuable" track time for the "premier classes".
I think He's growling about the fact that the 'premier' classes only get 2 short 20 min races each round, if you dropped one or two of the 'support' classes they could run longer/more races for the 'premier' classes...

[prettybillie]

You not got many fingers? There were seven sidecars at Timaru, occupying four rows.

Yeah but at the end of the day two of those chairs had riders that have never been on a chair before and another one that had not been on a chair for 20 years just so the chairs could get a grid.....is that really premier racing????? Is premier racing watching 3 complete novices just so there is a grid???? Not in my opinion!

[Kickaha]

I think He's growling about the fact that the 'premier' classes only get 2 short 20 min races each round, if you dropped one or two of the 'support' classes they could run longer/more races for the 'premier' classes...

If Biggles sped up a bit so he didn't get lapped his own race would be a bit longer

[Clivoris]

:killingme
It would save a lot of wasted spectating if we just had the top 5 Superbikes and their riders. They could have 8 decent length races during the day with various excitements like stunt displays and cheerleaders between races. Jo Public doesn't want to see the boring guys outside the top 5.

[RDjase]

Yeah but at the end of the day two of those chairs had riders that have never been on a chair before and another one that had not been on a chair for 20 years just so the chairs could get a grid.....is that really premier racing????? Is premier racing watching 3 complete novices just so there is a grid???? Not in my opinion!

Clubmans Chairs and Clubmans Bikes on the grid together would be fun to watch:gob:

[Bren_chch]

my personal opinion is that along with the MX nationals and the Sx nationals, is as long as they are run by a committee they will continue to be average, until a series organinser, or a dreaded "promoter" is put in charge, and allowed to have a go at improving the series, and given the leeway to make some drastic changes then we will be destined to continue to have average series,

The motorcycling canterbury run events are AWESOME, looking forward to watching at the Ruapuna round! :yes:

[Bren_chch]

I have to agree Scotty. The attitude of (some) of the people that run the meetings is absolutely appalling. Its costs us riders tens of thousands of dollars to compete and the organisers have the attitude well we are not making any money so we dont give a f#$k how the meeting runs. If you dont like it go home and we are volunteers we cant be expected to do our jobs properly attitude is not right. I would have the same attitude if I were doing it out of the goodness of my heart and people starting winging as well so I dont really blame them id like to see them getting paid because no matter what the riders do to come at this game with a professional approach it doesnt change anything if the organisers are not professional.


So TRUE! :facepalm:

I like the old line... "Do you want to run this meeting" - if i had 50 cents for the amount of times i heard that, i'd have..... .... ..... $1.50!

Or another classic get out of jail free card... "so your putting your hand up to run this meeting!" - no i am not, you have ellected to run it so do it profesionally which is how you expect the riders to be.

once upon a time... I ate some tarmac at a street event when some oil got dropped, the flaggy on that corner didnt put his flag up to slow us down/ warn us dispite the crowd waving and shouting to the guy. When i spoke to him about it, he said "i'm a volunteer, fuck off!" - brilliant reply!

:shutup:

[Shaun]

my personal opinion is that along with the MX nationals and the Sx nationals, is as long as they are run by a committee they will continue to be average, until a series organinser, or a dreaded "promoter" is put in charge, and allowed to have a go at improving the series, and given the leeway to make some drastic changes then we will be destined to continue to have average series,


I contacted EVERY SINGLE Road race License holders a few years ago about this idea, and only got 30 odd replies, all agreed, but only 30 replies out of over 250 letters sent out.

Why is NZ racing so fucked, Because the riders are pathetic and do NOTHING to bring it into the 20th centenary themselves, and then there comes the Internet where every body posts shit, but does nothing Real, just sits at there comp wanking on and complaining Ho hum

[suzuki21]

I contacted EVERY SINGLE Road race License holders a few years ago about this idea, and only got 30 odd replies, all agreed, but only 30 replies out of over 250 letters sent out.

Why is NZ racing so fucked, Because the riders are pathetic and do NOTHING to bring it into the 20th centenary themselves, and then there comes the Internet where every body posts shit, but does nothing Real, just sits at there comp wanking on and complaining Ho hum

Fuck me, never thought I would see the day when I agree with something you said Shaun, have never really like leprechauns. Although posting on here you wouldnt have contacted all road racers.

For Drews benefit......

Regards,
Steve Sangster

[scott411]

I contacted EVERY SINGLE Road race License holders a few years ago about this idea, and only got 30 odd replies, all agreed, but only 30 replies out of over 250 letters sent out.

Why is NZ racing so fucked, Because the riders are pathetic and do NOTHING to bring it into the 20th centenary themselves, and then there comes the Internet where every body posts shit, but does nothing Real, just sits at there comp wanking on and complaining Ho hum

Shaun, you are 100% right, the main reason we have issues is because the majority of the riders simply do not give a fuck enough to do anything about it, this goes for dirt racers, and road racers,

the proof of this is the lack of votes that are received for the officers of MNZ officals, from memory it has never reached 10% of the liceinced members

[roadracingoldfart]

Some of you are mentioning the amount of rounds per Nationals Campaign.......
I said it before and i say it again, Give me feedback.
North Island champs series over 3 tracks , all classes
South Island champs over 3 tracks , all classes
New Zealand champs over 1 track for 2 days once a year.
Alternating every year between the NI and SI with a diff track every turn.
That way the cost would be less and if you only wanted to do the NZ champs the classes would be structured in a way the so called premier classes can have a domminant slice of the track time.
So called minor classes could get all the time they already do in the present format and there is still a NZ or NI or SI champ every year in every class.

Would it work and would it address the topic of this post thread ?????
I see it as the exact way the bloody rugby is presently run and that has worked for a while aye.

Paul.

[fossil]

my personal opinion is that along with the MX nationals and the Sx nationals, is as long as they are run by a committee they will continue to be average, until a series organinser, or a dreaded "promoter" is put in charge, and allowed to have a go at improving the series, and given the leeway to make some drastic changes then we will be destined to continue to have average series,

I thought you had indicated that you wouldn't be a promoter again after 2 goes at SX and it costing you money?
Wasn't the last one outside MNZ and their committee type structure?

[scott411]

I thought you had indicated that you wouldn't be a promoter again after 2 goes at SX and it costing you money?
Wasn't the last one outside MNZ and their committee type structure?

did't say it would be me ;) i think a organiser away from the rule makers would be a start, i agree with the comment above that no promotor would take it, esp at this time

and also it was only outside MNZ because they still would not tell me the rules of being a promotor after 5 months of asking what they wanted from me, i could have just run it under an agreement with a club but tried to be straight up with my position after some fall out from the last one.

the final act of it was that i was told by a high ranking MNZ official it would be easier for both me and them if i did not run it under MNZ, so i took his wishes and ran it under my own insurance,

btw, i said it after the first one as well, seem's i am a slow learner aye

seems like this is the wrong thread to discuss this tho, seeing its about the road race nationals, you know how to get hold of me if you want to discuss it further,

[RideLife]

Province Racing.
Cut the North Is. in four – South Is. in three.
Each area enters 3 riders in each class. (from Superbike through to Streetstock on whichever track)
Throughout the day, race points are added to the Province tally to find the Best Motorcycling Road Racing Province in NZ.
Why? To give the spectator someone to follow in all races.
They don't know Joe Blow. But if they know ‘Joe Blow’ is from their province....Then they have someone to get behind.
"Joe Blow. That's our Man! GO JOE BLOW!!!! :corn:

[ellipsis]

Province Racing.
Cut the North Is. in four – South Is. in three.
Each area enters 3 riders in each class. (from Superbike through to Streetstock on whichever track)
Throughout the day, race points are added to the Province tally to find the Best Motorcycling Road Racing Province in NZ.
Why? To give the spectator someone to follow in all races.
They don't know Joe Blow. But if they know ‘Joe Blow’ is from their province....Then they have someone to get behind.
"Joe Blow. That's our Man! GO JOE BLOW!!!! :corn:



....thats the kind of stuff that will grow the sport out there in joe publicville..:sunny:

[prettybillie]

Shaun, you are 100% right, the main reason we have issues is because the majority of the riders simply do not give a fuck enough to do anything about it, this goes for dirt racers, and road racers,

the proof of this is the lack of votes that are received for the officers of MNZ officals, from memory it has never reached 10% of the liceinced members

On top of this though - those riders who are out there and want to be out there and are committed to making it work get shit on by so many other people that they get to a point where they just don't bother anymore.

There only so much politics and bollocks a person can handle before they think FUCK this hobby is just too hard and take up something else. I'm one of those people!

[TLR luva]

Some of you are mentioning the amount of rounds per Nationals Campaign.......
I said it before and i say it again, Give me feedback.
North Island champs series over 3 tracks , all classes
South Island champs over 3 tracks , all classes
New Zealand champs over 1 track for 2 days once a year.
Alternating every year between the NI and SI with a diff track every turn.
That way the cost would be less and if you only wanted to do the NZ champs the classes would be structured in a way the so called premier classes can have a domminant slice of the track time.
So called minor classes could get all the time they already do in the present format and there is still a NZ or NI or SI champ every year in every class.

Would it work and would it address the topic of this post thread ?????
I see it as the exact way the bloody rugby is presently run and that has worked for a while aye.

Paul.

Awesome idea, just like speedway champs. Adding to the way it is now why doesnt the premier class have 3 races per round, one on saturday and 2 on sunday like BNTV8 races. That gives more track time,more interesting for spectators and riders.

[lostinflyz]

if you wanna bitch and moan about the officials ect at the meet, you better have the right attitude yourself. Theres been a number of seriously cunty exchanges intiated by riders with a piss poor attitude this year, and thats always going to end in conflict. Unfortunately it just breeds an us vs them attitude that helps no one. If we, the riders, want to be stuck up pricks at the officials, expect the same back.

As for too many classes, you may have a point biggles, especially with clubmans as i think it discourages people from proper classes. And sidecars need to go back and get the following going at club racing, to develop a proper field and not try cobble something together just for nats.

Having additional races for the 'premier' classes, how would you guys survive with less practice, considering the amount of bitching on the weekend when practice was a bit shorter. You lot should be racing on saturday.

As for everyone bitching about the rounds and costs, look pretty much everywhere else in the world, and if you find somewhere where its going to be easier/cheaper to be a national rider, ill swallow all the fuel in my vespa. Guys sell up houses and livelyhoods, quit jobs, work 80 hour weeks, go without all round the world for this silly hobby, and very few dont dig seriously into their pockets (and time) to do it, the same as here.

Our meets are not perfect, but they ain't terrible either. You either get a kick from it and the money, time and sacrifices don't matter. Your either in or your out, its not for everyone, it never will be.

Rant over

[oyster]

World wide youth development classes such as our Streetstock ARE run at major events (Red Bull Rookies at MotGP, the EX 350 Kawa's at Supers etc.)
For 5 years now the (now called Mc Leary cup) has run over the 3 SI nat rounds for the young ones ,(19 and under)
They certainly pay their way and still have a pretty good crowd watching a large feild of wheel to wheel production racing The key factor is youth and AMBITION. This is developed by INCLUSION in the "big event" where it would falter if limited to club level activity. If you don't believe it, ask the riders, and check the stats. Get your current Nat feilds for 125GP, Pro Twin and now up to 600's and put a line through the names that have at been developed by South Island Streetstock at the Nat rounds. It would be a very large number missing. And the beauty of this is that most of them are still in their teens, with a big career ahead of them, unlike the bulk of the "senior feilds" being over 25

I accept some of the critics of SS at nats are from the north, where SS remains a porridge like club class for older riders with little ambition. The South has completely the reverse demographic

[scracha]

NI, SI cup with National champs alternating between islands on an annual basis is a great idea.

Can someone enlighten me as to what they do in OZ? Surely they're not travelling over to Perth etc? It's a population vs cost thing. The minority of riders in the remote south can't reasonably expect the majority of racers from the north to travel to Teretonga* on an annual basis?

Biggles...I can see where you're coming from, but in previous years it's been the premier class that's been pathetic. For many, watching 30 posties bikes race may be a bigger draw than 9 superbikes. Unless you're happy for F1/F2 to be support classes to car racing then you're asking the majority of racers to essentially, fuck off.

Buckets....quite frankly their lack of straightline speed makes em a spectator yawnfest at some of the tracks. 3 or 4 laps max or limit them to Saturday.

Sidecars...I still can't fathom how novice riders can be racing at a Nats meeting?

Motards......they ain't "super" unless there's dirt and jumps. Big crowd pleaser at street circuits but motards at Pukekohe....gimmie a break.

However, most of our problems could be fixed if we changed our focus from spectators at the track to spectators watching on TV/Internet.
There's roughly 4,000,000 kiwi's
There's roughly 6,996,000,000 non-kiwi's.

Who's our target audience? Who would sponsors rather target? The (cough) 500 spectators on the stands? We all pay a transponder fee (regardless of whether we actually own one) so why not a video camera fee? Shit, cameras should be compulsory at the nats. Can't fork out 400 on one.....tough. We've got to promote ourselves. SkyTV aren't going to magically come along with a camera crew and video editing suite any-time soon. BetandWin/RedBull/Tisso and even (gasp) motorocycle manufacturers aren't going to throw sponsorship money at us in our present state.

Otherwise we can all carry on bitching on KB about working stupid hours to (under) fund race bikes. We can keep pissing off our families by travelling long distances to put on a show risking serious injury (or worse) for a handful of spectators. We can keep racing against the same few racers for the next decade or two. We can keep limiting our enjoyment by ensuring rewards are law and costs high.


*and common bloody sense would have it tie in with the Burt Munro Challenge. :shutup:

[lostinflyz]

actually my friend your wrong, the aussies not only go to perth, but to darwin and tasmania, albeit only select classes at certain rounds (they are often only a support class to V8's)

just imagine america going from coast to coast,

also there are not a majority of racers from the north heading to teratonga. There are almost the same number of fulltime riders from both island. Therefore there are almost the same number of racers from the south expected to head to puke or HD each year are there not???

[Kickaha]

Sidecars...I still can't fathom how novice riders can be racing at a Nats meeting?

They actually had a fair amount of race experience just not on sidecars, the reality is I can race my bucket and nothing else for ten years then buy a Superbike and race at the nationals


We all pay a transponder fee (regardless of whether we actually own one)

No we don't if you have your own transponder you don't pay a transponder fee



just imagine america going from coast to coast,

I was talking to a American sidecar rider Monday night he said he has a 2200 mile drive to get to one of their rounds


The minority of riders in the remote south can't reasonably expect the majority of racers from the north to travel to Teretonga* on an annual basis?

Got the numbers to back that statement up?

[slowpoke]

Interesting, some of the clubmans werent to far off your time mate, so if you are in the premium class and some clubmans riders are only marginally slower why should they get dropped from competing, they can still get round ok. Personally I like all classes as long as the competition is close and exciting to watch. Having premium class riders getting lapped is not very interesting to me.

Clubman's at the Nationals meets is a totally different beast to the club level Clubman's you are thinking of. Quite often you'll see National level riders (Brad Selfe, Peter Tanner etc) stretch their legs in Clubman's rather than make the commitment to the Nationals entry. They're fuckin' quick in any company, and would expect to be circulating at Nationals speed.

But you've missed the point: while the Clubman guys may be plenty quick enough their level of commitment is nothing like the racers who are prepared to forego income/holidays/time/money on a full Nationals campaign. The Return On Investment (be it time, money or sweat) is pathetically low for the folks who do the full campaign, hence so few racers can be bothered.


Shaun, you are 100% right, the main reason we have issues is because the majority of the riders simply do not give a fuck enough to do anything about it, this goes for dirt racers, and road racers,

the proof of this is the lack of votes that are received for the officers of MNZ officals, from memory it has never reached 10% of the liceinced members

I disagree. Lots of folks would like to do something but have no idea of what to do or how to do it. As with normal poilitics I reckon most folks feel totally powerless and alienated by the governing body.

What is someones avenue for effecting any meaningful change in the immediate future? Basically there isn't one, hence we just suck it up, have a bit of fun, get frustrated and fuck off to something else.

The lack of votes thing is neither here nor there: how are people s'posed to vote when they've no information on what or who they are voting for? I have no idea who those people are or what they stand for.

Personally, I reckon we need some outside objectivity. Get a few non racers to roll up and check things out from a punters perspective and tell us what we need more or less of.

But if it was me at Nationals meetings I'd do away with all the non-Championship classes except for a Clubman's type class. If any club is gonna assume the risk of putting on a Nationals event I think it's only fair that most Club members get the chance to get on track at some stage. I'd have three races for all classes, with qualifying and one race Saturday and 2 on Sunday. Spreading the racing mitigates the risk of a total washout and gets more people through the gate on Saturday. At the moment no Supers racing on Saturday is just stoopid.

I don't think the one weekend championship is such a good idea. This isn't club buggery, I mean rugby, we're talking about with a standardised track in every town. To race at just HD or Ruapuna for a weekend and declare it a National championship is a bit of a nonsense. A National Championship is about finding the best rider in the country......not just at one track.

[Maido]

Awesome thread biggles! what a great read.

[brads]

Clubman's at the Nationals meets is a totally different beast to the club level Clubman's you are thinking of. Quite often you'll see National level riders (Brad Selfe, Peter Tanner etc) stretch their legs in Clubman's rather than make the commitment to the Nationals entry. They're fuckin' quick in any company, and would expect to be circulating at Nationals speed.



Ive NEVER entered Clubmans at any level (RR or MX),was riding a motard which was run seperate to clubmans at levels

[Biggles08]

Interesting, some of the clubmans werent to far off your time mate, so if you are in the premium class and some clubmans riders are only marginally slower why should they get dropped from competing, they can still get round ok. Personally I like all classes as long as the competition is close and exciting to watch. Having premium class riders getting lapped is not very interesting to me.

Then they should be competing in the correct class...not clubmans. Clubmans is designed for those who want to race 'what they bring'. Its to dip their toes in the race scene and then move on to a proper race class...its not a career class and if they are within the 115% lap times of the leaders in 600SS then they should be racing in that class.

[Bren_chch]

fuck sake Brads you burglar!!! :laugh:

[Wingnut]

fuck sake Brads you burglar!!! :laugh:

And stealing off his own family to boot! Always good for brotherly love in the pits :facepalm:

[prettybillie]

They actually had a fair amount of race experience just not on sidecars, the reality is I can race my bucket and nothing else for ten years then buy a Superbike and race at the nationals

This be true - but would that be good to watch? I don't think so. The sidecar racing at Levels was a pathetic display and if that is what the level of national championship racing then FFS sidecars - stop wasting your money. They should impose the 115% on all classes to at least make it interesting to watch. Seeing 6 chairs our there just circulating so there could be a nationals class is a joke!

[Biggles08]

if you wanna bitch and moan about the officials ect at the meet, you better have the right attitude yourself. Theres been a number of seriously cunty exchanges intiated by riders with a piss poor attitude this year, and thats always going to end in conflict. Unfortunately it just breeds an us vs them attitude that helps no one. If we, the riders, want to be stuck up pricks at the officials, expect the same back.

I don't think the attitude of most riders was too bad at either round really...the response from the officials at the riders brief i thought was a bit over the top imo. The briefing at Levels was awful when Nick Cole quite rightly raised a serious safety concern that was shrugged off as "Well if you don't like it, pack your bike up in the trailer!" I thought it was the official that made it an "us and them" issue, not the riders. To the credit of the officials, following the briefing they talked to us in a calm manner about our concerns and something was done about some of it...but this was once the briefing was over. One of the issues that was raised and addressed at riders brief was the suggestion to have a flag marshal at the inside of the track opposite the start/finish flag point. They took this suggestion up and it was fantastic. I made sure I went up and congratulated the officials on doing this as I personally found it far better for us riders.

As an interesting sidenote, one of the concerns Nick had (and myself and many others actually) was the lack of airbags / haybails at the esses through to the front straight. We were told none were availiable at the time. When we arrived in Invercargil we were told by a person in the know they had plenty of 'milk bottle bails' that would have been transported up to Levels for free...If this is the case then I personally find this situation unacceptable from the organizers as it shows a huge lack of respect for riders safety.



As for too many classes, you may have a point biggles, especially with clubmans as i think it discourages people from proper classes. And sidecars need to go back and get the following going at club racing, to develop a proper field and not try cobble something together just for nats. I agree.



Having additional races for the 'premier' classes, how would you guys survive with less practice, considering the amount of bitching on the weekend when practice was a bit shorter. You lot should be racing on saturday. We are generally there for most of the previous week getting as much sorted as possible so an extra race would be a welcome addition by most I would think.



As for everyone bitching about the rounds and costs, look pretty much everywhere else in the world, and if you find somewhere where its going to be easier/cheaper to be a national rider, ill swallow all the fuel in my vespa. Guys sell up houses and livelyhoods, quit jobs, work 80 hour weeks, go without all round the world for this silly hobby, and very few dont dig seriously into their pockets (and time) to do it, the same as here. Most riders who compete in every round of the NZ Nationals can relate to this 100%...it is a massive commitment and it always will be.


Our meets are not perfect, but they ain't terrible either. You either get a kick from it and the money, time and sacrifices don't matter. Your either in or your out, its not for everyone, it never will be. But this is not a suitable way to put a full stop on the discussions. There is always room for improvment and I believe we should always strive to do things better. The problem is, when anyone dares stick their neck out to suggest something, everyone who is involved in running these events seem to take it as an insult. You are correct, the meetings are generally ok, but there are a few things that could be done quite easily to make them great. Thats what I was trying to generate discussion on via my op post.

Rant over[/QUOTE]

[DEATH_INC.]

To race at just HD or Ruapuna for a weekend and declare it a National championship is a bit of a nonsense. A National Championship is about finding the best rider in the country......not just at one track.
The idea (from memory) as we came up with originally (from quasi's thread ages ago) was that you qualified for the nationals by placing in the north/south island champs. Like the top 10 from each class in each championship competed in the nats.
That way it isn't really decided on just one track....

[jasonu]

With respect I dont agree
isnt this the NZ Nationals ?
do you have streetstocks and Motards runnng at Phillip island during the GP ?
do you have Japanese salloon cars (honda civis, Evos, WRX etc) running at the V8 Super car rounds ?
Etc Etc Etc
No you dont, they have there own races and events
The NZ Nationals should be the top riders , the premier classes , the guys who have worked there way to the top from the streetstock etc etc

its about marketing baby :yes:

I totally agree.
Also, instead of everyone traipesing up and down the country multiple times per season which costs big dollars, how about a format like the AMA supercross lights east/west series. They run seperate series for both the east and west coast entrants, you can enter which ever series you want to but not both in the same year and series champions are determined via a points system. Then they all get together at the end of the season for the east vs west.
Call it North vs South and have the finalie in alternateing islands each year so contestants only HAVE to go interisland once every 2 years.
Just a thought.

[jasonu]

[QUOTE=Quasievil;1129979356]Ask Bamber or Fogg

Look at the significant sponsors they have, LG for example
they are a viable support class as are Porsche and the NZ V8s, what isnt a viable support class would be perhaps a 1973 ford escort rust bucket slapped together last week in time for the ITM400 by Dad and his mate over a crate of beer, which I would equate to buckets and streetstocks and in many cases Motards

Hey don't lump the buckets in with streetstocks and motards. A lot of the bucket guys are spending countless hours on building and developing their rides into pukka race bikes. Check out the ESE thread in the bucket forum and you will see what I mean.
And no, I don't think buckets is right for the nationals. No streetstocks, motards or unless numbers are much improved sidecars either.

[Kickaha]

When we arrived in Invercargil we were told by a person in the know they had plenty of 'milk bottle bails' that would have been transported up to Levels for free...If this is the case then I personally find this situation unacceptable from the organizers as it shows a huge lack of respect for riders safety.

So are you saying the organisers at levels knew these were available ?

[jasonu]

Province Racing.
Cut the North Is. in four – South Is. in three.
Each area enters 3 riders in each class. (from Superbike through to Streetstock on whichever track)
Throughout the day, race points are added to the Province tally to find the Best Motorcycling Road Racing Province in NZ.
Why? To give the spectator someone to follow in all races.
They don't know Joe Blow. But if they know ‘Joe Blow’ is from their province....Then they have someone to get behind.
"Joe Blow. That's our Man! GO JOE BLOW!!!! :corn:

Sounds like the old series from the late 70's early 80's called Top Town.

[Drew]

Why are you moaning about track time Marcus? You get more than we do on the sidecars, and we pay the same as you do.

If you were in a different class, (where you might actually be competitive, though I struggle to think of one) you'd be saying the same stuff but including it aswell.

There have been countless threads saying that since there were usually only 9 superbikes on the grid a couple years back, they should be axed. Now there's a few more and you're calling it the premier class, what the fuck?

If racing here is so shit for you, (and Christ knows you piss and fuckin moan about it a hell of a lot), go do it some place where it fits the way you think it should go.

Oh yeah, whoever was talking about the support classes at GP meetings, they ran post classics at Phillip Island last year, they were OK to watch I guess, but the field was very bloody spread out at the end, and half of them didn't even run in the rain.

[Shaun]

Why are you moaning about track time Marcus? You get more than we do on the sidecars, and we pay the same as you do.

If you were in a different class, (where you might actually be competitive, though I struggle to think of one) you'd be saying the same stuff but including it aswell.

There have been countless threads saying that since there were usually only 9 superbikes on the grid a couple years back, they should be axed. Now there's a few more and you're calling it the premier class, what the fuck?

If racing here is so shit for you, (and Christ knows you piss and fuckin moan about it a hell of a lot), go do it some place where it fits the way you think it should go.

Oh yeah, whoever was talking about the support classes at GP meetings, they ran post classics at Phillip Island last year, they were OK to watch I guess, but the field was very bloody spread out at the end, and half of them didn't even run in the rain.




Drew, at least Marcus (Biggles) comes up with some constructive stuff put in a way that all can read understand his point!

What the FUCK have you come up with that may help the sport mate, apart from getting on here and bad mouthing every thing you disagree with, go get another job and earn some money to pay your racing costs instead of sitting at the computer Critising all you disagree with

Happy days Brother

[Drew]

Drew, at least Marcus (Biggles) comes up with some constructive stuff put in a way that all can read understand his point!

What the FUCK have you come up with that may help the sport mate, apart from getting on here and bad mouthing every thing you disagree with, go get another job and earn some money to pay your racing costs instead of sitting at the computer Critising all you disagree with

Happy days Brother

What did he say that was so constructive then Shaun?

He's not happy with the track time he gets, so the rest of us should get none at all at the nats? Yeah, constructive as!

I have said time and again that the series needs a promoter, and that I would help where I could, but I'm not in a position to commit to much. I even approached a few people when YOU were asking what could be done.

I also just organised running the nats on a sidecar in three days with a budget of ZERO, so that the class wouldn't be removed from the series, for the benefit of quite some more people than just myself.

Ya wanna go pointing fingers? Lets talk about what you've done for the sport lately! Other than say something stupid and follow it up a few days later saying your sorry and mumbling about head injuries. Or how about the fact that the Vic club will no longer run the long track for safety reasons you decided to chime in on? Where do you get off to tell us what is safe, when you race regularly at the track with the worst safety record in the world? So, you can make your own decisions on risk but the rest of us need spoon fed?

You are a hypocrite Shaun, worse still you are a know it all hypocrite!

[Shaun]

What did he say that was so constructive then Shaun?

He's not happy with the track time he gets, so the rest of us should get none at all at the nats? Yeah, constructive as!

I have said time and again that the series needs a promoter, and that I would help where I could, but I'm not in a position to commit to much. I even approached a few people when YOU were asking what could be done.

I also just organised running the nats on a sidecar in three days with a budget of ZERO, so that the class wouldn't be removed from the series, for the benefit of quite some more people than just myself.

Ya wanna go pointing fingers? Lets talk about what you've done for the sport lately! Other than say something stupid and follow it up a few days later saying your sorry and mumbling about head injuries. Or how about the fact that the Vic club will no longer run the long track for safety reasons you decided to chime in on? Where do you get off to tell us what is safe, when you race regularly at the track with the worst safety record in the world? So, you can make your own decisions on risk but the rest of us need spoon fed?

You are a hypocrite Shaun, worse still you are a know it all hypocrite!



AGAIN VERY CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS WITH LOADS OF INPUT HOW TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.

Mumblings about head Injuries often come from people with Documented head injuries Moron

" To Quote You"

Ya wanna go pointing fingers? Lets talk about what you've done for the sport lately! Other than say something stupid and follow it up a few days later saying your sorry and mumbling about head injuries. Or how about the fact that the Vic club will no longer run the long track for safety reasons you decided to chime in on? Where do you get off to tell us what is safe, when you race regularly at the track with the worst safety record in the world? So, you can make your own decisions on risk but the rest of us need spoon fed?



O FUK me, so sorry for trying to keep people healthy, Go Hit a DAM Concret wall on a so called closed safe race track like the HD Incident, and see how hard you are Dick head.

[Drew]

AGAIN VERY CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTS WITH LOADS OF INPUT HOW TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.

Mumblings about head Injuries often come from people with Documented head injuries Moron

Have a great day

I don't question your head injuries Shaun, infact I submit there might have been some before the ones the doctor gave you a note for.

I have no ideas for growing the sport, but I am passionate about it still, and since I'm a scone doer, I'll do my scone when fuckwits suggest shit that I think is dumb. So most the time you post like.

You are a fantastic rider man, and Jimmy says an even better coach. For that I respect you, but your not someone I could ever like, and wouldn't expect to be liked back. So when you say something that gets under my skin, I'll always call you on it.

Live long and prosper.

[Drew]

O FUK me, so sorry for trying to keep people healthy, Go Hit a DAM Concret wall on a so called closed safe race track like the HD Incident, and see how hard you are Dick head.


Why have you not lobbied to have the "bus stop" no longer used at Levels then?

Or even better, how about the fact that pit wall at Manfield is just as dangerous as the exit form the long track?

The risks are there, we SHOULD all be aware of them, and then make our own decision on weather we want to race still.

[Wingnut]

Hey Drew - What part of Levels is the "Bus Stop"? Is it the esses entering the front straight?

Great thread by the way...

[scracha]

They actually had a fair amount of race experience just not on sidecars, the reality is I can race my bucket and nothing else for ten years then buy a Superbike and race at the nationals

So could I. But you've missed the point I was making.



No we don't if you have your own transponder you don't pay a transponder fee

Paeroa. But again, that wasn't my main point.



I was talking to a American sidecar rider Monday night he said he has a 2200 mile drive to get to one of their rounds

America has a far higher per capita income than our islands and gas and accommodation are cheaper. Presumably they've got their act together with regards to promotion and sponsorship. There's also the fact that their pool of riders come from a population of over 300 million. Last but not least, every fule know sidecar riders are strange perverted creatures who probably get their kicks from driving long distances for a few minutes of racing.



Got the numbers to back that statement up?
No, but I got told that 3 million kiwi's live in the north island, and half of them are above Hamilton. So I put 2 and 2 together but it doesn't make 4 in this case. Anyway, you've again totally missed what I thought was a very obvious point.

I'll spell it out for you.

Nobody watches our races.
Most people can't afford to race.
Most people who can afford to race, can't afford the time off and expense of travelling between islands.
We need to get our shit together and address the above points.

[Drew]

Hey Drew - What part of Levels is the "Bus Stop"? Is it the esses entering the front straight?

Great thread by the way...

Yeah, they must be an add on because the track can be run without them.

[Kickaha]

Yeah, they must be an add on because the track can be run without them.

Cars don't use it, I think they run the bikes through it to slow entry onto the start/finish straight although it doesn't feel very slow when you're sliding along there on your arse

[Drew]

Cars don't use it, I think they run the bikes through it to slow entry onto the start/finish straight although it doesn't feel very slow when you're sliding along there on your arse

Mkaes a bit of sense, cos without it turns one offs would make their way right across and back onto the sweaper.

[lostinflyz]

I'll spell it out for you.

Nobody watches our races.
Most people can't afford to race.
Most people who can afford to race, can't afford the time off and expense of travelling between islands.
We need to get our shit together and address the above points.


1.) says who??? what do you expect. packed paddocks with 100000 people?? 1000??? 2???
2.) Theres at least 100+ odd racers on the weekend (and the weekend before) that condradict you. if you wanna race, you will afford it, you will make it happen. harden up
3.) See B above, most at levels were at invercargill, and ill place a bet on ruapuna, and there a fair few from up that way down here and a fair few going up too
4.) You need to get your shit together and sort yourself out, theres plenty of us who are doing fine thanks.

as for your comments re organisation, you only have to look around the world, esp. the USA to see very good riders not doing anything cause they can't bring money to teams to run them. there ain't no sponsorship there. And sure somethings may be cheaper, but i seriously doubt it takes less time, effort, cash or leave to compete at a serious level.

[lostinflyz]

Mkaes a bit of sense, cos without it turns one offs would make their way right across and back onto the sweaper.

that, and could you imagine the speed of a superbike through the kink, with the wall as your only run off??

[Shaun]

I don't question your head injuries Shaun, infact I submit there might have been some before the ones the doctor gave you a note for.

I have no ideas for growing the sport, but I am passionate about it still, and since I'm a scone doer, I'll do my scone when fuckwits suggest shit that I think is dumb. So most the time you post like.

You are a fantastic rider man, and Jimmy says an even better coach. For that I respect you, but your not someone I could ever like, and wouldn't expect to be liked back. So when you say something that gets under my skin, I'll always call you on it.

Live long and prosper.


Like me dislike me, that is your call of course Drew. I Know you are passionate about the sport, but so is Marcus and so have I been for the last 24 years and will be for another if I am alive.

If I come accross as a " Know it all" That is probally due to my charactuer and the fact that I DO KNOW A LOT after 24 years in the sport and are not afraid to speak up about issues I see, ie, for how many years have I SAID PUKEKOHE is a killer track weighting to happen?

My decision to race the infimious Isle of Man TT track, was always done with the clarity that I may NOT be coming back after giving 100% every time,( Which I was fully prepared for) BUT that was " as you say" The Individuals choice!

Timaru chicane is Dodgy YES, but every year I have raced there, I have helped PUT the Bales that were always there in place in case of an accident, I do not know what happened there this year as I was not there as I take NO part in the nationals any longer after being ripped off and Lied to by certain people out there racing.

What I was trying to suggest to you was, instead of just Criticising people on here about there input and thoughts ( Which any moron can do just like Parliment) PLEASE come up with some heallthy positive feed back for others to think about.

Re your coment on my Previous head injuries " CORRECT"

It is diagnosed as BIPOLAR:yes: So very well done DOCTOR! Do not worry though, I take me meds every day like a good boy now.

PS, thankyou for the positive comments about my past riding.

NW FUK off and get another job and pay your racing bills

[Grumph]

that, and could you imagine the speed of a superbike through the kink, with the wall as your only run off??

Correct - the use of the esses reduces entry speed onto the start/finish straight and also approach speed to the turn 1/2 complex.
The serious crashes I remember along the start/finish involved guys getting on the grass and then tangled in their own bikes or run over...I've never seen anyone actually hit the wall there.
I can't remember if the esses bypass sweeper was there originally - certainly the cars used the esses for years until there were incidents and complaints it was too narrow for safety, then they went to the fast sweeper.

[Shaun]

Regarding the esses at Timaru, JOHN HEPBURN personally put up the Air fence and extra protection there this year as he has done for many many years off his own back, as like myself, John is very concerned for rider protection, and does what he can to help, he knows as a rider the potentuall impact points, and places them accordingly.

Any one that winges about them, should get off there own Fnnnnn arse and do some thing about it, instead of weighting untill it is to late to modify or improve.

Thanks John Hepburn for your support in NZ Racing

[White trash]

Like me dislike me, that is your call of course Drew. I Know you are passionate about the sport, but so is Marcus and so have I been for the last 24 years and will be for another if I am alive.

If I come accross as a " Know it all" That is probally due to my charactuer and the fact that I DO KNOW A LOT after 24 years in the sport and are not afraid to speak up about issues I see, ie, for how many years have I SAID PUKEKOHE is a killer track weighting to happen?

My decision to race the infimious Isle of Man TT track, was always done with the clarity that I may NOT be coming back after giving 100% every time,( Which I was fully prepared for) BUT that was " as you say" The Individuals choice!

Timaru chicane is Dodgy YES, but every year I have raced there, I have helped PUT the Bales that were always there in place in case of an accident, I do not know what happened there this year as I was not there as I take NO part in the nationals any longer after being ripped off and Lied to by certain people out there racing.

What I was trying to suggest to you was, instead of just Criticising people on here about there input and thoughts ( Which any moron can do just like Parliment) PLEASE come up with some heallthy positive feed back for others to think about.

Re your coment on my Previous head injuries " CORRECT"

It is diagnosed as BIPOLAR:yes: So very well done DOCTOR! Do not worry though, I take me meds every day like a good boy now.

PS, thankyou for the positive comments about my past riding.

NW FUK off and get another job and pay your racing bills

LOL. I love you and Drew like brothers..... oh wait......

[Shaun]

LOL. I love you and Drew like brothers..... oh wait......


You an't getting in my bed prick

[R6_kid]

there was recently a classics festival held at Phillip Island, not sure how many classes were raced in total but each class got four races each, ranging from 7-10 laps.

[White trash]

You an't getting in my bed prick

Give us a cuddle......

[Drew]

Just to be clear, I have no issues with Levels at all. Think it's great, I was merely using it as an example, not having a whinge.

[Nonbeliever]

there was recently a classics festival held at Phillip Island, not sure how many classes were raced in total but each class got four races each, ranging from 7-10 laps.

who cares?

[dipshit]

From a spectator's view point... I go to the nationals to see top road racing... not club racing or freaking motocross bikes.

[scracha]

1.) says who??? what do you expect. packed paddocks with 100000 people?? 1000??? 2???

Try actually reading my original post. There's next to fuck all spectators. With the "attractions" at the track kept in their current state, this isn't likely to change. My point was we should target TV/Internet.
UK, 60 million people. British superbike round, 50,000 spectators.
NZ, 4 million people. NZ superbike round....<1000 spectators...even with free entry . You can't tell me this situation is normal.



2.) Theres at least 100+ odd racers on the weekend (and the weekend before) that condradict you. if you wanna race, you will afford it, you will make it happen. harden up

Ohhhh...100 odd racers out of 4 million population. So my point is made.



3.) See B above, most at levels were at invercargill, and ill place a bet on ruapuna, and there a fair few from up that way down here and a fair few going up too

And by far the majority are NOT going.




4.) You need to get your shit together and sort yourself out, theres plenty of us who are doing fine thanks.

But the majority are not. Typical kiwi "she'll be right" response. There's more racers out there who think the current situation is pretty fucked up than than me.



as for your comments re organisation, you only have to look around the world, esp. the USA to see very good riders not doing anything cause they can't bring money to teams to run them. there ain't no sponsorship there. And sure somethings may be cheaper, but i seriously doubt it takes less time, effort, cash or leave to compete at a serious level.
But what's wrong with trying to get organised, obtain sponsors and reduce rider costs?

[Kickaha]

Try actually reading my original post. There's next to fuck all spectators.

What crowd attendance figures do you base this statement on?

Have you been to any SI rounds? what would you consider good for a country this size or with the population base we have next to each track?

TV coverage is easy to get you just have to pay for it


Ohhhh...100 odd racers out of 4 million population. So my point is made.

It's not really much of a point, is there a set figure per capita we should have going racing?

How many would you expect?


And by far the majority are NOT going.
The majority aren't going because they think they're to slow for Nationals or they can't afford it or they can't be arsed or anyone of a number of excuses even though they have around 10-12 months to prepare


There's more racers out there who think the current situation is pretty fucked up than than me.
I'm curious as to what they're doing about it other than whinging on the internet?

Are they all actually racing the Nationals or not bothering and therefore reducing the numbers even more?


But what's wrong with trying to get organised, obtain sponsors and reduce rider costs?
Absolutely nothing, sort that out for us would ya

[lostinflyz]

But what's wrong with trying to get organised, obtain sponsors and reduce rider costs?

nothing, its a good thing.

Proposing to gut our only serious race series, cause so many dont't wont to front the time, money and effort is though.



Ohhhh...100 odd racers out of 4 million population. So my point is made.

there are about a million people who play rugby, only 300 or so are in the NPC, should they can the whole series cause theres not more????


Right, screw this ive got to get to chch now.

[Drew]

Try actually reading my original post. There's next to fuck all spectators. With the "attractions" at the track kept in their current state, this isn't likely to change. My point was we should target TV/Internet.
UK, 60 million people. British superbike round, 50,000 spectators.
NZ, 4 million people. NZ superbike round....<1000 spectators...even with free entry . You can't tell me this situation is normal.


Ohhhh...100 odd racers out of 4 million population. So my point is made.


And by far the majority are NOT going.




But the majority are not. Typical kiwi "she'll be right" response. There's more racers out there who think the current situation is pretty fucked up than than me.


But what's wrong with trying to get organised, obtain sponsors and reduce rider costs?


What crowd attendance figures do you base this statement on?

Have you been to any SI rounds? what would you consider good for a country this size or with the population base we have next to each track?

TV coverage is easy to get you just have to pay for it



It's not really much of a point, is there a set figure per capita we should have going racing?

How many would you expect?


The majority aren't going because they think they're to slow for Nationals or they can't afford it or they can't be arsed or anyone of a number of excuses even though they have around 10-12 months to prepare


I'm curious as to what they're doing about it other than whinging on the internet?

Are they all actually racing the Nationals or not bothering and therefore reducing the numbers even more?


Absolutely nothing, sort that out for us would yaYou pair of homos can discuss this at the track if Stevie comes down.

[Wingnut]

Proposing to gut our only serious race series

I would have thought the Tri Series is still regarded as being serious.....

Good luck for Ruapuna Tim.

[Biggles08]

Why are you moaning about track time Marcus? You get more than we do on the sidecars, and we pay the same as you do.

If you were in a different class, (where you might actually be competitive, though I struggle to think of one) you'd be saying the same stuff but including it aswell.

There have been countless threads saying that since there were usually only 9 superbikes on the grid a couple years back, they should be axed. Now there's a few more and you're calling it the premier class, what the fuck?

If racing here is so shit for you, (and Christ knows you piss and fuckin moan about it a hell of a lot), go do it some place where it fits the way you think it should go.

Oh yeah, whoever was talking about the support classes at GP meetings, they ran post classics at Phillip Island last year, they were OK to watch I guess, but the field was very bloody spread out at the end, and half of them didn't even run in the rain.

I love you Drew xxoo:innocent:

[Drew]

I love you Drew xxoo:innocent:

Come over to the sidecar pit for a cuddle tomorrow and some man lovin then.

[Kickaha]

Come over to the sidecar pit for a cuddle tomorrow and some man lovin then.

He's too soft to hang out with us,maybe if he pays a bribe

[Biggles08]

He's too soft to hang out with us,maybe if he pays a bribe

I love it when you homos fight over my arse!:love:

[roadracingoldfart]

I love you Drew xxoo:innocent:

Thats just wrong


Come over to the sidecar pit for a cuddle tomorrow and some man lovin then.

Thats just leading the wrong to be wrong


He's too soft to hang out with us,maybe if he pays a bribe

Maybe he can send the pit crew bitch over to play with you chair wallies.


I love it when you homos fight over my arse!:love:

Ohh FFS Biggles , thats just asking for fertility implants mate. RUN>>>>>>>

[Drew]

Maybe he can send the pit crew bitch over to play with you chair wallies.
Doubt it, Dukie does his suspension and he steers well clear of us lot.

[chrispy121]

look the side chairs runied the nationals round at hamptons last year turning the track into a skid pan full of oil. that took a couple of hours to clean up and wasted a whole lot of time.

What I find funny is on the TV coverage of the tri series round they had
f1/motards both classes and side chairs.
where was the f2 class on tv?
if I want to watch motorcross bikes on tv I will watch the super cross

Let take a look at stats

There would be more 600cc supersport bikes in NZ then side cars or motards.
If you want more support from sponsors etc put on what people own and ride every day.

The reason the V8 formular is so successful is because you race on sunday buy of the shop floor Monday.
that why there are so many fords and holdens sold in this country.

now I know some one is going to say hey more people own motocross bikes in NZ than 600cc road bikes but most of them ride off road hence they can watch the supercross

A road race event should be for Road race bikes not abominations modified to run on the road

by the way I have both types of bike road and off road no three wheeled things though gave those up with my trusty trike when I was two years old:woohoo:

[scracha]

I love it when you homos fight over my arse!:love:

Fighting for exclusive rights or just first dibs?

[chrispy121]

Fighting for exclusive rights or just first dibs?

biggles make sure you take lots of duct tape you might need it for your body after they finish with you.:shit:

[Drew]

by the way I have both types of bike road and off road no three wheeled things though gave those up with my trusty trike when I was two years old:woohoo:

I was pretty handy on a 600 and a 1000, no where near Stroud and Sheriffs of course, but quick ish when I stayed upright. And I promise you it is not even in the same league for fun as sidecars.

They are small time in New Zealand at the moment, but they have been a big class and will be again. There is a stigma about them and leaking oil/being dangerous, but is no longer the case. Come to the pits anytime and look over an outfit, then show me one solo bike with the same care spent on containing fluid.

The danger is a relativity thing I think. They 'turtle' less than solos, but when they do it can be worse. Swingers sometimes fall off but since it's always their fault that's ok.

[Kickaha]

Swingers sometimes fall off but since it's always their fault that's ok.

You can buy your own fucking beer this weekend :motu:


look the side chairs ruined the nationals round at hamptons last year turning the track into a skid pan full of oil. that took a couple of hours to clean up and wasted a whole lot of time.

What I find most interesting is when a Sidecar drops oil it gets shouted from the rooftops, any other class it gets ignored and kept quiet or the sidecars get blamed for it

[chrispy121]

[
haha just noticed drew has gixxer 1000 listed as his bike and you are calling it the corolla of the bike world.

I used to race thundcats and when our co pilots almost fell out we exercised get in sit down shut up and hold on!

[Drew]

[
haha just noticed drew has gixxer 1000 listed as his bike and you are calling it the corolla of the bike world.


I should change that, I don't have that one anymore.

[roadracingoldfart]

Doubt it, Dukie does his suspension and he steers well clear of us lot.

If he had a Harrier he could take off and land quickly , say hi and dissapear at Mk1.5.

But you could always ask Dan P to pop over !!!!!

[roadracingoldfart]

What I find most interesting is when a Sidecar drops oil it gets shouted from the rooftops, any other class it gets ignored and kept quiet or the sidecars get blamed for it

Stop being a stoopid man ...... solo's dont spill oil . they soak up the oil left by the chairs.:facepalm::innocent:

[Yow Ling]

Lastly do some of you think that Buckets should be in the Nationals as well ? we can also perhaps ad the Vespa guys they love a good race, where do you want to stop?

of course they should, they pay MNZ licence fees , same amount as any 600 or 1000 rider. Next you will be saying benificiarys shouldnt get health care.
Vespa riders dont pay MNZ fees , F4 and F5 are recognised classes and can easily put 45 bikes on the grid, what other classes can do that ?

[richban]

It is a massive investment I know to compete in this series. If I was investing the time and money that the 3, F classes do. I would maybe want more track time. There are lots of good ideas on this thread. Maybe when I win the big Powerball prize this weekend I will start my own promo company and help out.

[imdying]

What about an individual NI and SI 5 round championship (anyone from any island could contest either or both at once though). Then a humdinger face off round, alternating island location annually (NI this year, SI the next), where the national champ is decided in a best of 3?

/edit: I see, mooted many times already...

[Tony.OK]

Maybe when I win the big Powerball prize this weekend

Sorry but I have already called "dibs" for this weekend...............better luck some other time maybe:innocent:

[liljegren]

We just got back from Timaru, watching the Nats round whilst on holiday. Its a long way from Paihia, but we had a blast. The Supers were shithot, Stroudy dishing it when it mattered, and heaps of support classes to keep everyone happy. The sidecars were a waste of time as far as competitive racing goes, theres only one chair in it really, but they did make a show of it by jacking up the second race, overtaking and stuff.
I just started racing Posties, and the best advice I've been given is that there are no sheepstations on offer, there is nothing to win, unless you want to spend the dough and run at the front. My point is that there will never be big crowds at most events in NZ, thats the joy of living here! If you want all that go queue up in Europe.Motorsport in NZ is for the competitors, by the competitors.
Just a suggestion as far as NI v SI rounds, why not have 6 rounds, but only count points from 4 of them?

[Wannabiker]

Having dabbled in a bit of clubmans racing, I am not as qualified to speak here as others...but have some thoughts. I imagine a national champs is to find the national champ in each chapmionship class?? How could it be anything else?

If NZSBK is seen as a premier class, then surely it should have its own series?? (and be self funded)

I have in the past competed at national and international level in 2 sports. (cycling, and flying model aircraft). Both sports have a national championships. Both Nationals cater for all classes / aspects / disciplines of the sport.

Mountainbiking: 6 National rounds. 3 North, 3 South island. Best 4 results count...and you must compete at the final round for final placing, Final alternats between north and south island, with round 5 being in the same island, usually a week prior, to cut travel costs. All classes have seperate races. Elite, age group, female, junior etc.

Model Flying: Annual champs, usually a week long, held over xmas/new year. Alternate between North and South Island. All disciplines contested (as in motorcycling, many comperitors enter multiple classes)
Most major disciplines run their own [National] series throughout the year at seperate meetings, as a parallel competition.

My 2 bobs worth...

[Kickaha]

It is a massive investment I know to compete in this series. If I was investing the time and money that the 3, F classes do. I would maybe want more track time.

Why should they get anymore than anyone else who pays the same entry fee to be there?

[ajturbo]

With respect I dont agree
isnt this the NZ Nationals ?
do you have streetstocks and Motards runnng at Phillip island during the GP ?
do you have Japanese salloon cars (honda civis, Evos, WRX etc) running at the V8 Super car rounds ?
Etc Etc Etc
No you dont, they have there own races and events
The NZ Nationals should be the top riders , the premier classes , the guys who have worked there way to the top from the streetstock etc etc

its about marketing baby :yes:

you speak what i am thinking matey.... :woohoo:

[Biggles08]

Some of you are mentioning the amount of rounds per Nationals Campaign.......
I said it before and i say it again, Give me feedback.
North Island champs series over 3 tracks , all classes
South Island champs over 3 tracks , all classes
New Zealand champs over 1 track for 2 days once a year.
Alternating every year between the NI and SI with a diff track every turn.
That way the cost would be less and if you only wanted to do the NZ champs the classes would be structured in a way the so called premier classes can have a domminant slice of the track time.
So called minor classes could get all the time they already do in the present format and there is still a NZ or NI or SI champ every year in every class.

Would it work and would it address the topic of this post thread ?????
I see it as the exact way the bloody rugby is presently run and that has worked for a while aye.

Paul.

That's worth some serious thought mr old fart...I like the North vs South idea as I think it could be marketed well too. When it came to the 'National' round, only the top say 10 in each class would be invited to compete in their discipline (at minimal cost to them as hopefully a promotion company would be more inclined to sponsor such an event) at this event making it the best of the best competing. Also as Quasi says (as I need to suck his cock some more as per the tags on this thread), it needs to be restricted to classes that are of a certain standard...no rust buckets will be permitted to race, pit areas need to have a certain professionalism (as Mick has tried to do this year at Christchurch), along with more brolly dollys!

[Shaun]

That's worth some serious thought mr old fart...I like the North vs South idea as I think it could be marketed well too. When it came to the 'National' round, only the top say 10 in each class would be invited to compete in their discipline (at minimal cost to them as hopefully a promotion company would be more inclined to sponsor such an event) at this event making it the best of the best competing. Also as Quasi says (as I need to suck his cock some more as per the tags on this thread), it needs to be restricted to classes that are of a certain standard...no rust buckets will be permitted to race, pit areas need to have a certain professionalism (as Mick has tried to do this year at Christchurch), along with more brolly dollys!



I VOTE FOR MARCUS/BIGGLES TO BECOME THE ROAD RACE CO_ORDINATOR/MANAGER


No Piss take, you think and act clearly with well chosen words:yes:


NO, I do not suck his Cock, as he does not have one

[roadracingoldfart]

That's worth some serious thought mr old fart...I like the North vs South idea as I think it could be marketed well too. When it came to the 'National' round, only the top say 10 in each class would be invited to compete in their discipline (at minimal cost to them as hopefully a promotion company would be more inclined to sponsor such an event) at this event making it the best of the best competing. Also as Quasi says (as I need to suck his cock some more as per the tags on this thread), it needs to be restricted to classes that are of a certain standard...no rust buckets will be permitted to race, pit areas need to have a certain professionalism (as Mick has tried to do this year at Christchurch), along with more brolly dollys!


I dont agree with the "rust bucket " badging really Marcus. I have many times spanked the opposition on a second hand looking bike and there is a certain "feather in the cap "feeling of doing it on a bike still in development. Look at the bike i built for Steevie, when first on the track it beat every other bike (even with Steevie on it ) and it looked like a total pig . I would argue that the performance and the close racing is more of a crowd attractant than a grid full of shiny bore metres.
Every class deemed legal under MNZ class rules should be able to contest a national title and if they are not allowed its because its controlled by a biggoted format based on so called glamour class bikes getting the cream. Some of the best racing i have seen ever was in whats been touted as lower class race classes. its not the make up of the bike its the action on the track that counts for enjoyment to watch.
I want to see any rider with any chosen bike able to stand high like i have and call themselves a national champ and just relish the accolade of knowing they did the best they could and achieved what we all want at the start of any champ series. Winning is not the only reason but its really cool when it happens. Human nature drives us to be competative and i dont like seeing reasons for organiser clubs or organisations to be able to relegate us to dog and shitbox status.

[roadracingoldfart]

NO, I do not suck his Cock, as he does not have one


I got told to first suck a cock you had to know what its like to have a cock. :facepalm::facepalm::shutup:

[Shaun]

I got told to first suck a cock you had to know what its like to have a cock. :facepalm::facepalm::shutup:



Funny that, I have never worked out where my daughter came from, and why my wife screams so much at me whilst in bed

[Tony.OK]

and why my wife screams so much at me whilst in bed

So I'm not the only one who calls out the wrong name then? :innocent::shutup::facepalm:

[prettybillie]

The sidecars were a waste of time as far as competitive racing goes, theres only one chair in it really, but they did make a show of it by jacking up the second race, overtaking and stuff.


You wouldn't need to jack it up if there were actual national level riders....can you imagine if they did that in the superbikes....well they just wouldn't. At the end of the day 1NZ wanted to make sure the stayed national champions and so cobbled together a class.....if they are fine with calling themselves national champions racing against who they are racing against then their egos need a stop check!

[Shaun]

So I'm not the only one who calls out the wrong name then? :innocent::shutup::facepalm:


Hahaha YEP, I was married before 25 years ago:shit:

[Kickaha]

You wouldn't need to jack it up if there were actual national level riders....can you imagine if they did that in the superbikes....well they just wouldn't. At the end of the day 1NZ wanted to make sure the stayed national champions and so cobbled together a class.....if they are fine with calling themselves national champions racing against who they are racing against then their egos need a stop check!

MNZ had to change the minimum grid number a few years back to make sure Superbikes could have a class because they were below the minimum required so it isn't unique to sidecars

So you really need to get your facts right before you start spouting off such a load of crap, there's actually a few of us down here who want to see the Sidecars class survive at a National level regardless of who is winning the title it had fuck all to do with NZ1 "cobbling together a class" just so he could get a title

Quite interesting to see that you flew to attend the Levels round just to hang out with the sidecar teams all weekend, went out to tea with them, were in the sidecar pits all weekend, so would you like to tell us what changed your attitude or would you rather just shut the fuck up

[prettybillie]

MNZ had to change the minimum grid number a few years back to make sure Superbikes could have a class because they were below the minimum required so it isn't unique to sidecars

So you really need to get your facts right before you start spouting off such a load of crap, there's actually a few of us down here who want to see the Sidecars class survive at a National level regardless of who is winning the title it had fuck all to do with NZ1 "cobbling together a class" just so he could get a title

Quite interesting to see that you flew to attend the Levels round just to hang out with the sidecar teams all weekend, went out to tea with them, were in the sidecar pits all weekend, so would you like to tell us what changed your attitude or would you rather just shut the fuck up

At the end of the day - read all the posts - I'm not the only one saying the racing has been a waste of space on the grids.

I have a sidecar and the sidecar people used to be my friends - but you pro MNZ and anti MNZ crews are all the same though. Sort your fucken class out, stop the in fighting and then and only then it might be worthy of a class in a national series.

BTW I'm happy to tell you what they think about you too - then you might change your attitude as well!

[Shaun]

At the end of the day - read all the posts - I'm not the only one saying the racing has been a waste of space on the grids.

I have a sidecar and the sidecar people used to be my friends - but you pro MNZ and anti MNZ crews are all the same though. Sort your fucken class out, stop the in fighting and then and only then it might be worthy of a class in a national series.

BTW I'm happy to tell you what they think about you too - then you might change your attitude as well!


Apologies to any one that this may affend ACCEPT LEANNE PRETTYBILLY




I used to like your humour and company, but now just as the above post said F OFF

[scott411]

MNZ had to change the minimum grid number a few years back to make sure Superbikes could have a class because they were below the minimum required so it isn't unique to sidecars


the way i remember it the minimum number got dropped from 10-6 because the womans mx classes were struggling to make the grade, i am pretty sure i was the club rep at the conference,

but it may have been for both reasons, it was the late 90's when it was changed

[prettybillie]

Apologies to any one that this may affend ACCEPT LEANNE PRETTYBILLY

You are acting like a TOTAL WANKER, so try shutting your mouth without some thing in it for once!!! O there the problem probally is, Perhaps some one said NO to putting some thing in it for you


I used to like your humour and company, but now just as the above post said F OFF

Oh Shaun - I am so incredibly offended by your comments seen as you are such an extremely well liked individual yourself. Have none of you realised that due to the amount of shit talked on this site and at the tracks why would I care what people say and think about me because 99.7% of it is bollocks!

Anyways - you're right I should fuck off and I'm going to. I've got no investment in the motorcycle community anymore so have asked for my profile to be cancelled.

[Kickaha]

the way i remember it the minimum number got dropped from 10-6 because the womans mx classes were struggling to make the grade, i am pretty sure i was the club rep at the conference,

but it may have been for both reasons, it was the late 90's when it was changed

I'm sure that roughly 4 years ago the minimum was 10 and Superbikes were unable to make it (but were allowed to run anyway) so the next year the grid limit was lowered to 6


but you pro MNZ and anti MNZ crews are all the same though.

I am neither pro MNZ or Anti MNZ, I am pro Sidecar

[scott411]

I'm sure that roughly 4 years ago the minimum was 10 and Superbikes were unable to make it (but were allowed to run anyway) so the next year the grid limit was lowered to 6



I am neither pro MNZ or Anti MNZ, I am pro Sidecar

i know it goes back longer than that, maybe it was seperate rules till then

[Shaun]

Oh Shaun - I am so incredibly offended by your comments seen as you are such an extremely well liked individual yourself. Have none of you realised that due to the amount of shit talked on this site and at the tracks why would I care what people say and think about me because 99.7% of it is bollocks!

Anyways - you're right I should fuck off and I'm going to. I've got no investment in the motorcycle community anymore so have asked for my profile to be cancelled.



Your call of Course Leanne, but I will always defend peolpe that are being unfairly abused, especially after they all have spent a shite load of money to go racing.

Have a nice day:sunny:

[chrispy121]

ok every one stop take a deep breath and count to ten :woohoo:

looking at the results from today how come most other classes get three races and f1 and f2 get two races?

just a question

[Kickaha]

looking at the results from today how come most other classes get three races and f1 and f2 get two races?

No F1 or F2 class were running today :bleh:

But if they had been running they would have had longer races than the other classes and still done the same amount of race laps

edit: actually they get one more lap than the other classes

[chrispy121]

No F1 or F2 class were running today :bleh:

But if they had been running they would have had longer races than the other classes and still done the same amount of race laps

edit: actually they get one more lap than the other classes

so too make biggles point in the beginning the premier class's get less races than the other classes.
where is that fair:facepalm:

[Kickaha]

so too make biggles point in the beginning the premier class's get less races than the other classes.
where is that fair:facepalm:

Premier classes my arse, they get 2 races compared to three for the other classes but they are longer races and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I thought that was decided by the 600 and Superbike guys some years back?

[Shaun]

Premier classes my arse, they get 2 races compared to three for the other classes but they are longer races and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but I thought that was decided by the 600 and Superbike guys some years back?


Sorry Kick, but they are the 2 premier classes, Why, because they represent what the spectators ride on the ride, ie, the SUZUKI TRI SERIES, and all the product they use represent the same and bring in slight profit margins to dealers, who SOME in turn give a bit back

SCars and F3 have NO real relivence to the buisness economy

If No Suzuki etc, NO racing mate, as there would not be enough riders entering the champs, which in turn means there would be NO Champs

[Tony.OK]

It does say "Castrol Power 1 NZ Superbike Championship" on all the entry forms :innocent:

[Biggles08]

Premier classes my arse, ....

Interesting to see where the crowds were when the superbikes came out to play Kickaha....all on the side of the track watching! And what a display they put on. Do you truly believe Sidecars were more of a spectacle than the Superbikes or 600's? I'm not saying this because I race a 600, I'm merely pointing out what the general Jo public want to see....close racing for sure, but specifically with the faster bikes. If there were 6 very close sidecars racing I admit I would watch that too, but the simple fact is there isn't. I hope some time soon there is tho.

[White trash]

I think you'll find spectators are much more intrigued with sidecars than solos as they're different and people want to know more. The whole weekend for us was filled with (when we weren't on track) a steady stream of spectators in the pit area (which I thought was extremely professional), asking questions, taking photos, kids sitting on rigs, etc etc.

The congratulations and applause Drew and I got on the slow down laps was phenominal, despite us running 6th in every race.

I don't think you're actually speaking from a spectators perspective Marcus.

The other funny old thing is, I didn't see any superbike or supersport riders offering their utes on Saturday night so the signage could be placed around the track for the GP, or inviting all the organisers, TV people and commentators, or anyone else hanging around over for a massive "on the house" BBQ and beers? Oh, wasn't that another sidecar teams ute borrowed for the victory laps after the GP?

Race 2 of the Superlites was fucking SPECTACULAR for third place. Streetstock action was mental at the front and superb racing also.

Nah, support classses offer no value whatsoever.........

[imdying]

Interesting to see where the crowds were when the superbikes came out to play Kickaha....all on the side of the track watching!Well, we had to find out why the lack lustre commentators were getting somewhat motivated.

The commentating was a joke full stop. People talk about building up bike racing in NZ for spectators. Hahhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaah. Not a fucking chance. Most of the time we had no idea what was going on, between races do you think we'd get some interesting to listen to.... hell no. However, I did hear the commentator say that we'd be without one for the last races, as he had a ferry to catch. That's pro :lmao:

They did an awesome job on the national anthem though... I'd never heard half a dozen out of sync, off key, robotic girls (???? might have been guys, couldn't tell) singing before... that was first.


You're fucked in the head if you think you'll get anything but diehard bike enthusiasts to go and pay for that on a regular basis.

[White trash]

The commentating was a joke full stop.

I heard Spyda was fairly entertaining. Apparently, me and Drew are what happens when you shake a baby and our rig handles like a bathtub full of spastics.

That being said, it was probably more to do with the spastics trying to ride the thing rather than the handling :D

[Shaun]

I heard Spyda was fairly entertaining. Apparently, me and Drew are what happens when you shake a baby and our rig handles like a bathtub full of spastics.

That being said, it was probably more to do with the spastics trying to ride the thing rather than the handling :D



At least you guys gave it a go and were doing it

[Tony.OK]

The online commentating was quite good I thought, different than what the track had though I understand.
Was great to be able to listen in and have guests speaking such as Dennis Charlette for the last SBK race.

As for classes and the amount of races............even WSBK only has 2 races per meeting, the Supersports only have 1.
Do people come to both days to watch or is the Sunday the main event? Is that why all the SBK & S/sport races are on Sunday?

One thing I really think needs changing not just at the Nats but club racing as well is the starting grids. Qualifying for race 1 is good but race 2 grid should be from race 1's results, that'd make for even closer 2nd races as the fast guys go straight into battle.
Thats what they do overseas ain't it..............

[Tony.OK]

At least you guys gave it a go and were doing it

+1

I'll be at Manners waving the "yay" flag for the "Mighty Mair Chair Team" :woohoo:

[Shaun]

One thing I really think needs changing not just at the Nats but club racing as well is the starting grids. Qualifying for race 1 is good but race 2 grid should be from race 1's results, that'd make for even closer 2nd races as the fast guys go straight into battle.
Thats what they do overseas ain't it..............


Nah mate, where you Qual is where you start again!

An the idea of starting 2nd race as per first race results would be a little harsh for someone if they had a mechanical failure or a crash

They would have to start last:facepalm:

[Kickaha]

One thing I really think needs changing not just at the Nats but club racing as well is the starting grids. Qualifying for race 1 is good but race 2 grid should be from race 1's results, that'd make for even closer 2nd races as the fast guys go straight into battle.
Thats what they do overseas ain't it..............

I think pre transponder days the grid was done on where you were in the points table?

I seem to remember being gridded off that a decade or so ago

[Shaun]

I think pre transponder days the grid was done on where you were in the points table?

I seem to remember being gridded off that a decade or so ago



Correct man, but as I said in my last post, the current system aids competitors for failures etc

[Tony.OK]

Correct man, but as I said in my last post, the current system aids competitors for failures etc

Fair call.............what do the WSBK's do Shaun?

Do they take it from the fastest lap times in the previous race? Then no one gets penalised for mech or crashing................bit off topic I know.

[Shaun]

Fair call.............what do the WSBK's do Shaun?

Do they take it from the fastest lap times in the previous race? Then no one gets penalised for mech or crashing................bit off topic I know.


where you Qual is where you start from for both races M8

[brads]

Fair call.............what do the WSBK's do Shaun?

Do they take it from the fastest lap times in the previous race? Then no one gets penalised for mech or crashing................bit off topic I know.

Thats what they do in the BSB championship

[Drew]

Jimmy, how much did it cost in tyres to ride a superbike at your level?

How rooted was Craig after race one this weekend been?

Some people here are asking why the "premier" classes don't get more track time, and in other threads the same people are asking why the grids are shrinking.

Make up your minds, if a superbike gets twice as many races as they currently do, then tyre bills double.

The rest of the classes are "support classes" yes? Who do you think we are supporting Marcus?

As for the "rust buckets" comment, you really are sounding like a spoilt prat. The nationals should not be a run what you brung affair in my opinion too, but some of us came down south on a bloody shoe string. For our own enjoyment but also the good of the sport. There was no money for flashing the machine up and so it didn't get done.

You are a bit of a poser though I guess, so I can totally see why you favour form over function.

[sidecar bob]

Your call of Course Leanne, but I will always defend peolpe that are being unfairly abused, especially after they all have spent a shite load of money to go racing.

Have a nice day:sunny:
How much somebody spends on themselves shouldnt alter anything should it?

[Nonbeliever]

the premier classes are the superbike and 600's classes.
anyone that cant see that is living in a seriously deluded little world of their own shit.
You've just got to see the viewing bank empty after the superbike races to realize this.
When the sidecars are on it's time to go have a dump, get a drink, perv or catch up with mates. sorry, but true

[ClutchITUP]

Marcus, I think most people there were friends/family of the support classes.
And want to see their own race
If your worried bout your sponsors not getting enough coverage why not circulate at the front?
I ran in clubmans and pushed harder than I ever have before because I was supporting the top guys like Stroud, Charlette on the day.
My opinion is without clubmans at nationals events(which only had 2 8 lap) races) less people would progress to national level

[Wingnut]

My opinion is without clubmans at nationals events(which only had 2 8 lap) races) less people would progress to national level

Sorry but even though I have previously ran in Clubmans at the Nats - I still think it could be done without. Motards should run a proper national championship too!
As for progressing to a national level - First you need a shit load more in the $$ for the old budget. Two of the top guys in the 600s this year (Ross and Charlett) were at most if not all of the MCC club race days - so its not like the chellenge isn't there...

[lostinflyz]

Sorry but even though I have previously ran in Clubmans at the Nats - I still think it could be done without. Motards should run a proper national championship too!
As for progressing to a national level - First you need a shit load more in the $$ for the old budget. Two of the top guys in the 600s this year (Ross and Charlett) were at most if not all of the MCC club race days - so its not like the chellenge isn't there...

100% agree. Clubmans guys should either step up and give it a go in their class, or spend another year at club level then step up. Its amazing the number of guys who start nats just inside the 115% qauli time in proper classes, and come the end they're closer to 105% of the top times. and motards deserve a go at having a full series.

as a side note to the guys who said no one shows up at nats, you obviously weren't at ruapuna on the weekend. Sunday had a great crowd, people were everywhere, it was hard to find a good spot to watch. I tried to count just the cars on the bank watching around the circuit but lost count at 170 when i counted from the first corner to the hairpin, where their were the least (must have easily been close to 400). It was a massive effort by the club to promote, and they did a great job. ok there were a few issues on the day and the meet ran a bit long but thats life and shit happens. Overall it was a great meet and spectacularly attended!!!!!

:headbang::headbang::headbang:

[k14]

as a side note to the guys who said no one shows up at nats, you obviously weren't at ruapuna on the weekend. Sunday had a great crowd, people were everywhere, it was hard to find a good spot to watch. I tried to count just the cars on the bank watching around the circuit but lost count at 170 when i counted from the first corner to the hairpin, where their were the least (must have easily been close to 400). It was a massive effort by the club to promote, and they did a great job. ok there were a few issues on the day and the meet ran a bit long but thats life and shit happens. Overall it was a great meet and spectacularly attended!!!!!

:headbang::headbang::headbang:
Yeah totally agree, Mick and his helpers deserve a massive congratulations for such a well run and professional effort. I can only remember seeing that many people at a road racing event in NZ before and that was at the Britten memorial way back about 10 years ago. The amount of cars around the whole circuit was certainly pleasing. I hope we put on a good enough show for them :)

[Drew]

the premier classes are the superbike and 600's classes.
anyone that cant see that is living in a seriously deluded little world of their own shit.
You've just got to see the viewing bank empty after the superbike races to realize this.
When the sidecars are on it's time to go have a dump, get a drink, perv or catch up with mates. sorry, but true

No one is saying they aren't the premier classes, and what you choose to do with your time when the sidecars come out is up to you.

But I can tell you there were still quite a few people around the track watching our races, I know this because once we got tired we started to ham it up a bit for them and got quite a few applause for our effort.

I am confident that the sidecar numbers will increase in the not distant future, and once they do the racing will be good for spectators and riders alike.

[roadracingoldfart]

No one is saying they aren't the premier classes, and what you choose to do with your time when the sidecars come out is up to you.

But I can tell you there were still quite a few people around the track watching our races, I know this because once we got tired we started to ham it up a bit for them and got quite a few applause for our effort.

I am confident that the sidecar numbers will increase in the not distant future, and once they do the racing will be good for spectators and riders alike.

Ok heres an invite to self implosion i guess....... I stand and say that Superbikes are not Premier class label owners.
Why ???
....... Easy , if a Superbike rider gives it 100% in his race and a Superlite rider gives it 100% in his race and a Sidecar pairing gives it 100% in thier race then thats as even as it has to be , the machines are going flat out to the potential of the capacity , the crowd hopefully gets to see a few dices ( and heaven forbid the crashes they seem to look for ) and the riders have fun , stay safe and give some kind of short or long term memory to someone , be it a spectator or a fellow competitor or even a sponsor looking for a way to get his name out in the field.
Labelling only one class as Premier is just dumb . Every class is full of guys and girls giving it shit and trying hard to please anybody and everybody interested in the sport. When a movement to make one class so much more important than another happens i get a bit miffed and i hope i dont see the internal destruction that has occured in the sports body in days gone by.
I started this racing shit in 1983 and at that time the Molboro series was full of very big names from factory teams , you may say that was Premier but those days are gone and wont be back anytime soon. We have what we got now and if it isnt broken dont try to fix it.

[sidecar bob]

The premier class will be the one with the closest racing.
I believe we have amomgst us a competitor, that while easily capable of absolutely trouncing the entire field in his class, hangs back & makes a race of it, season long.
This unassuming genius keeps the spotlight on his class, rather than himself for the good of everyone.

[Shaun]

The premier class will be the one with the closest racing.
I believe we have amomgst us a competitor, that while easily capable of absolutely trouncing the entire field in his class, hangs back & makes a race of it, season long.
This unassuming genius keeps the spotlight on his class, rather than himself for the good of everyone.



He understands Marketing better than most people. I must admit that I try to encourage him to win the race starts also, so as to avoid any mistakes by any other rider though

[Shaun]

No one is saying they aren't the premier classes, and what you choose to do with your time when the sidecars come out is up to you.

But I can tell you there were still quite a few people around the track watching our races, I know this because once we got tired we started to ham it up a bit for them and got quite a few applause for our effort.

I am confident that the sidecar numbers will increase in the not distant future, and once they do the racing will be good for spectators and riders alike.



Agree re the class growing again. If the in house politics/bitching could be put aside for a while, it would certanly grow even faster, and that would be brilliant for the sport, but politics are a very distructive thing and take a long time to settle unfortunately'

Stick at it and help keep it growing

[Nonbeliever]

The premier class will be the one with the closest racing.

lol, you are joking right bob??

the premier class is the superbike class, c'mon lets be honest now. No one can deny this surely?
If there was no sbk or 600 class in the weekend, would there still have been thousands of people there? the answer is NO, and everyone knows it.
The same crowd wouldve turned up if there was no sidecras or farmbikes for sure.

[imdying]

Motards should run a proper national championship too!So long as they fit decent mufflers... either that or dump them completely. All the other bikes are loud too, but none sound shite like the tards do... even the Hyosung 250s sound better than those, they're just bloody horrible. Hmmm... v-twin tards, now that'd be problem solved!

[imdying]

The premier class will be the one with the closest racing.Nah, it's the one with the most potential for death. Motorsports is after all a blood sport. People turn up hoping to see at least one good crash.

You start a Busa et all class, leave em on street tyres, gather up a dozen psychos, and that'll be your premier class right there.

[sidecar bob]

lol, you are joking right bob??

the premier class is the superbike class, c'mon lets be honest now. No one can deny this surely?
If there was no sbk or 600 class in the weekend, would there still have been thousands of people there? the answer is NO, and everyone knows it.
The same crowd wouldve turned up if there was no sidecras or farmbikes for sure.

If every superbike race was a procession, predictably won by over a minute every time by the same chequebook charlie, would you bother emerging from the crapper to watch it?

[Nonbeliever]

If every superbike race was a procession, predictably won by over a minute every time by the same chequebook charlie, would you bother emerging from the crapper to watch it?

2nd race in chch was won by 0.2sec wasn't it?

[Nonbeliever]

If every superbike race was a procession, predictably won by over a minute every time by the same chequebook charlie, would you bother emerging from the crapper to watch it?

umm, have you seen the results for the sidecras ??
hardly close racing buddy!

[dipshit]

If every superbike race was a procession, predictably won by over a minute every time by the same chequebook charlie, would you bother emerging from the crapper to watch it?

I would. Watching a class act do his thing is a sight to behold. You can really sense the difference when standing by a corner watching them go by.

Like watching Gareth Jones at Teretonga a couple of years ago...

[Shaun]

If every superbike race was a procession, predictably won by over a minute every time by the same chequebook charlie, would you bother emerging from the crapper to watch it?

Cheque book charlie?, do you mean Suzuki NZ and Honda NZ and Yamaha NZ and Kawasaki NZ, show me the last Total Privateer that won the NZ Superbikes or the 600 class????



What you have said is exactually like the Sidecar class used to be when you guys were doing it with your 1300cc motor against the others who used the 1000cc motors, guess you could have down cc your motor, but that would have cost you guys money as well to make the racing more exciting

Not digging at you, as the rules were allowed that cc and others could have spent the money and up specked there motors but did not? To me that showed that 90% of the competiotors were there to race for fun!!!!!

[Tony.OK]

If every superbike race was a procession, predictably won by over a minute every time by the same chequebook charlie, would you bother emerging from the crapper to watch it?

Kinda like MotoGP at times or WSBK when Spies was on fire?

Yeah nah they never get good crowds:innocent:

If SBK isn't the premier class then why is it called Castrol NZSBK, WSBK, BSB, ASBK etc etc................

I'm all for support classes but they are there in reality to feed riders into the SS & SBK classes are they not? Many posts on KB about getting young guys up the ranks, if those 2 classes aren't the "premier" ones then why bother trying to get young guns to move on?

[White trash]

Cheque book charlie?, do you mean Suzuki NZ and Honda NZ and Yamaha NZ and Kawasaki NZ, show me the last Total Privateer that won the NZ Superbikes or the 600 class????


(I think he's having a sideways nudge at Mr Bron dude)

[sidecar bob]

(I think he's having a sideways nudge at Mr Bron dude)

Absolutely not!!, I wasnt criticising superbikes or all the incredible & generous backing that they have. I was just saying that if it was a boring predictable procession, it would suck.

[Shaun]

Absolutely not!!, I wasnt criticising superbikes or all the incredible & generous backing that they have. I was just saying that if it was a boring predictable procession, it would suck.


Again Bob, No piss take in this, but is that why you guys have stopped racing these days, did it become to boring for you just pissing off on your grunter

I used to love the way you and Scriv entertained the crowd ( Used to argue my arse off in defence of this on your guys behalf with another winging mate) once you had the lead safe, but your Old Fast chair allowed for that entertainmet as well, where as an Modern LCR or simillar does not allow that kind of stylish fun as you of all people understand.

I also like the way Steve Bron goes as hard as he can for as long as he can, to try and better his own lap times as he does, maybe dull for the crowd, but it is his money he is spending and good on him for doing it, with out him out there, there would be NO SIDECARS this year mate and that would be fukin SAD

[sidecar bob]

Again Bob, No piss take in this, but is that why you guys have stopped racing these days, did it become to boring for you just pissing off on your grunter

Duuude!! im sure i saw you at the race meetings, bu it must have been your twin brother.
Pissing off on our grunter that was getting its ares kicked down the front straight of Ruapuna, The backstraight of levels & anywhwere else that talent wasnt a factor!!
Its not that grunty. Yep, we falsified dyno charts by doing runs in low gears to pshyce out the opposition, it was all part of the game.

[sidecar bob]

I also like the way Steve Bron goes as hard as he can for as long as he can, with out him out there, there would be NO SIDECARS this year mate and that would be fukin SAD
Without him out there i personally know of five sidecars that would be there.

[Shaun]

Duuude!! im sure i saw you at the race meetings, bu it must have been your twin brother.
Pissing off on our grunter that was getting its ares kicked down the front straight of Ruapuna, The backstraight of levels & anywhwere else that talent wasnt a factor!!
Its not that grunty. Yep, we falsified dyno charts by doing runs in low gears to pshyce out the opposition, it was all part of the game.



Guess it must have been the drugs I was on at the time eh

[Shaun]

Without him out there i personally know of five sidecars that would be there.


sorry to turn this into a Negative then, but those 5 must be total pathetic Juvinille wankers then

When the flag drops the bullshit stops, and NO one has to talk to each other, or are you all gay

[Kevin G]

OK I sat and read 14 pages of comments, insults and general wipe.

The board of MNZ is discussing the idea of starting a riders forum at the conference this year in Palmy North, the idea is the riders meet, discuss/argue and then attend the Road Race Workshop with ONE voice (not everyone throwing in 2 cents worth) the voice or spokesperson of the competitors. The voice could put forward such things as safety concerns, how the nationals is run, class rules etc.

The other idea to try and make it worthwhile for racers to actually attend the conference and be part of the solution is to have interesting and relevant speakers on such topics as suspension, nutrition etc etc that would be relevant to NATIONAL level racers.
Last year only 1 National level road racer attended the conference!

Get involved in been part of the solution rather than throwing stones from the sidelines.

How about the NZRRC been 6-7 rounds but spread over 7-8 months so as to ease the burden on cash flow, time from work, time away from home/family, recovery time when good times go bad, major bike repairs etc etc. I know ultimately it will cost a few more $$ but its more affordable spread out and easier on everyone.
Use (assuming the clubs are OK with it) the existing big club meets like the Vic club winter series final round, AMCC club champs, King of Levels, King of Ruapuna, etc etc and have the other club classes as support classes, most people riding nationals would not give a continental about winter series points unless they are trying to pad out a CV.

Lets face it the idea of summer racing has not really worked that well this year!

Resume the bitch fight.

Regards
Kevin Goddard

[Shaun]

Today 16:52 #199 Kevin G



OK I sat and read 14 pages of comments, insults and general wipe.

# Thanks for takeing the time Kevin

The board of MNZ is discussing the idea of starting a riders forum at the conference this year in Palmy North, the idea is the riders meet, discuss/argue and then attend the Road Race Workshop with ONE voice (not everyone throwing in 2 cents worth) the voice or spokesperson of the competitors. The voice could put forward such things as safety concerns, how the nationals is run, class rules etc.

# When is the conference this year in Palmeston North, and how would you suggest all the NZ License holders choose the 1 Rep?

The other idea to try and make it worthwhile for racers to actually attend the conference and be part of the solution is to have interesting and relevant speakers on such topics as suspension, nutrition etc etc that would be relevant to NATIONAL level racers.
Last year only 1 National level road racer attended the conference!

# Please elaberate on the point of having other racers there if they cannot voice there points, and who would be covering the costs of having these speakers there, would it come out of MNZ funds? Which I feal would be money miss spent?

Get involved in been part of the solution rather than throwing stones from the sidelines.

# Agree to this

How about the NZRRC been 6-7 rounds but spread over 7-8 months so as to ease the burden on cash flow, time from work, time away from home/family, recovery time when good times go bad, major bike repairs etc etc. I know ultimately it will cost a few more $$ but its more affordable spread out and easier on everyone.
Use (assuming the clubs are OK with it) the existing big club meets like the Vic club winter series final round, AMCC club champs, King of Levels, King of Ruapuna, etc etc and have the other club classes as support classes, most people riding nationals would not give a continental about winter series points unless they are trying to pad out a CV.

# I think that is an exellent idea

Lets face it the idea of summer racing has not really worked that well this year!

Resume the bitch fight.

# It will start soon

Regards
Kevin Goddard

[Kickaha]

Without him out there i personally know of five sidecars that would be there.

Those five need their arses kicked if all that's stopping them going racing is their dislike of one person, they're certainly not acting in the best interests of the sport

Maybe they should sell their sidecars and take up knitting, although the way it's going there will be no market because there wont be any racing for them



When the flag drops the bullshit stops, and NO one has to talk to each other, or are you all gay

All the gay guys race 1000 and 600 classes



OK I sat and read 14 pages of comments, insults and general wipe.

Only 14 pages before you got here? we're certainly slipping

[jellywrestler]

Those five need their arses kicked if all that's stopping them going racing is their dislike of one person, they're certainly not acting in the best interests of the sport


Can you imagine the squealing when they poke each other with their knitting needles?

[Kiwi Graham]

I don't think there is any doubt about which classes are considered 'the premier classes' and I think there is room for a range of support classes. Without them the event would prove too costly for the premier classes to enter.
Even if they had three races each it would be a very short meeting without support classes.
Being New Zealand I'm not convinced there would be a sponsor out there to subsidise their entry's for a whole series.

I would support the idea of a North and South National culminating in a final National round between the top however many of each.

Must say 'we' are pretty good at slagging each other off and piss poor at trying to improve things.

Having a voice at the MNZ AGM would be embarrassing if this how it would be conducted.

[Kevin G]

Hi.
Sorry Shaun I did not explain that very well. The idea is that all the riders meet in what would be a Road Race riders workshop. 1st point would be to elect or appoint a spokesperson. The group then tries to agree on the best path forward and then this is taken to the Road Race workshop. At the road race workshop the voice of the collective riders forum would be the spokesperson.

Not sure how the spokesperson would be appointed or elected, I guess nominations could be put forward and then voted on. I would suggest a strong facilitator would be required as well to keep the meeting on track, suggest perhaps a MNZ life member could do this.

Does that make more sense?

Re the costs, the costs of the speakers etc is spread across all clubs as it is now with the existing conference, this is outlined in the MNZ constitution.

[sidecar bob]

sorry to turn this into a Negative then, but those 5 must be total pathetic Juvinille wankers then

When the flag drops the bullshit stops, and NO one has to talk to each other, or are you all gay

No, theyre not, & im not gay, although I thought most people were by now aware that I, for some time now, have been in a mutually benificial heterosexual relationship with the lovley Tracey of pink sidecar fame.
Unfortunately the bullshit dosent stop, so thats a factor.
Also, being the parent of two lovely young adults, ive observed children at play, & inexplicably, on occasions i have noticed that when a certain child enters the sandpit, the other children quietly one at a time, find somwhere else to play.
Im unsure what causes this to happen, but it is apparent from a very early age, possibly because that child wants all the toys, or to tell the other children how to play to best advantage themselves.
Somehow the play becomes not fun anymore with that paticular child, & everyone moves on.
I guess nothing changes as people become older, except for the type of play they engage in.
As for your gay "insult", i find that highly offensive, having been in a business partnership with a gay man that was the most moral & honest individual i have ever had the pleasure of being involved with.
Unfortunately he has since passed away.

[Shaun]

Hi.
Sorry Shaun I did not explain that very well. The idea is that all the riders meet in what would be a Road Race riders workshop. 1st point would be to elect or appoint a spokesperson. The group then tries to agree on the best path forward and then this is taken to the Road Race workshop. At the road race workshop the voice of the collective riders forum would be the spokesperson.


Kevin, you on here trying to help build/repair our sport is BRILLIANT mate:yes::yes::yes:


# Like that idea Kevin, constructive and productive, nealy a first for us mate:sunny:

Not sure how the spokesperson would be appointed or elected, I guess nominations could be put forward and then voted on. I would suggest a strong facilitator would be required as well to keep the meeting on track, suggest perhaps a MNZ life member could do this.

# How about creating a questionare to hand out to all National riders at the next 2 rounds calling for nominations, and Majority wins?

Does that make more sense?

Re the costs, the costs of the speakers etc is spread across all clubs as it is now with the existing conference, this is outlined in the MNZ constitution.

I personally would like to see a Budget created for this plan, and then this plan dropped, and the budget that was allocated put towards the travel costs of all individuals takeing part in the plan re the 7 or 8 round champs.

Cheers

[Shaun]

No, theyre not, & im not gay, although I thought most people were by now aware that I, for some time now, have been in a mutually benificial heterosexual relationship with the lovley Tracey of pink sidecar fame.
Unfortunately the bullshit dosent stop, so thats a factor.
Also, being the parent of two lovely young adults, ive observed children at at play, & inexplicably, on occasions i have noticed that when a certain child enters the sandpit, the other children quietly one at a time, find somwhere else to play.
Im unsure what causes this to happen, but it is apparent from a very early age.
Somehow the play becomes not fun anymore with that paticular child, & everyone moves on.
I guess nothing changes as people become older, except for the type of play they engage in.
As for your gay "insult", i find that highly offensive, having been in a business partnership with a gay man that was the most moral & honest individual i have ever had the pleasure of being involved with.
Unfortunately he has since passed away.

O dear, shame you lost your sense of humour since you stopped SWINGING Bob

Carry on in the sand pit with the Kids then mate.

Bye for now

[sidecar bob]

O dear, shame you lost your sense of humour since you stopped SWINGING Bob

Carry on in the sand pit with the Kids then mate.

Bye for now
But i swung just this weekend been Trevor!! Two wins & two seconds.
Im not past it yet!!
Oh. . . and like i said, im not playing in the sandpit anymore, im playing with the nice kids on the climbing tower now.

[Kickaha]

having been in a business partnership with a gay man

Are you sure it was "only" a business partnership? :whistle:

[Nonbeliever]

geez uz :facepalm:

[Drew]

Clearly us sidecar types are taking this a bit more personally than any other factions.

Numbers of entries in all classes is what will ultimately bring the punters, and the promotion thereof.

I know people who have never ridden bikes that watch the superbikes because of how spectacular it is. Those same people don't watch the GP because it looks less exciting.

Double the piss poor numbers on the superbike grid and advertise it as 'a scrap till the death, between NZ's best and feature riders from abroad', and Joe public will come with no other motive than Kiwi pride.

Sidecars can be advertised similarly, and raise cash to bring a couple dirty Ausies over to compete. Long and short outfits so everyone can play in the same sandpit, just with different friggin toys.

Just a thought, trying to stay positive so I don't upset Shaun.

[Kickaha]

How about the NZRRC been 6-7 rounds but spread over 7-8 months so as to ease the burden on cash flow, time from work, time away from home/family, recovery time when good times go bad, major bike repairs etc etc.

While I like the idea I could see it impacting on club series throughout the year as I would expect that each North island rounds and each South Island round would run after each other (with whatever gap)so the gear wouldn't have to be carted back and forth between Islands otherwise I think you'd be adding to much expense

[Drew]

While I like the idea I could see it impacting on club series throughout the year as I would expect that each North island rounds and each South Island round would run after each other (with whatever gap)so the gear wouldn't have to be carted back and forth between Islands otherwise I think you'd be adding to much expense

Na, you and Dave leave the LCR here between NI rounds, and Jimmy and I will use it for club racing. No impact on the clubs, quite a bit on Daves outfit, not that it would know the bloody difference!

[jellywrestler]

ive observed children at at play, & inexplicably, on occasions i have noticed that when a certain child enters the sandpit, the other children quietly one at a time, find somwhere else to play.
Im unsure what causes this to happen, but it is apparent from a very early age, possibly because that child wants all the toys, or to tell the other children how to play to best advantage them.

Did you lift this straight from the Destiny Church manual?

[Shaun]

Clearly us sidecar types are taking this a bit more personally than any other factions.

Numbers of entries in all classes is what will ultimately bring the punters, and the promotion thereof.

I know people who have never ridden bikes that watch the superbikes because of how spectacular it is. Those same people don't watch the GP because it looks less exciting.

Double the piss poor numbers on the superbike grid and advertise it as 'a scrap till the death, between NZ's best and feature riders from abroad', and Joe public will come with no other motive than Kiwi pride.

Sidecars can be advertised similarly, and raise cash to bring a couple dirty Ausies over to compete. Long and short outfits so everyone can play in the same sandpit, just with different friggin toys.

Just a thought, trying to stay positive so I don't upset Shaun.



I Luv ya Brother mate, now piss off

[Shaun]

Did you lift this straight from the ( DESPERATE) Church manual?


Fixt for ya:sunny:

[Biggles08]

The rest of the classes are "support classes" yes? Who do you think we are supporting Marcus?

As for the "rust buckets" comment, you really are sounding like a spoilt prat. The nationals should not be a run what you brung affair in my opinion too, but some of us came down south on a bloody shoe string. For our own enjoyment but also the good of the sport. There was no money for flashing the machine up and so it didn't get done.

You are a bit of a poser though I guess, so I can totally see why you favour form over function.

Eh????? Spoilt prat? Loads of money? Which Marcus are you refering too? Are you suggesting I have loads of money and have it easy attending every round of the Nationals Drew? Make your point cause I clearly am a little slow (and on the bike) and can't figure out your angle! I have, possibly more than most, spent most of my free time getting myself organized to be able to attend the nationals simply because I want to. Its easy for you to slag me off on here about how slow I am and how spoilt I am etc but simply put, it seems you are a tad jealous of my success off the track. If you have something to say to me. next time say it to my face when we are having a laugh at the track rather than being a two faced wannabe...I would appreciate that. Better still, stop taking about how much faster you are than me and get on a bike and come prove it (and try not to trash it while your doing it)...I have no doubt you will feel fantastic about yourself when you will be able to start a thread on here about how you kicked my arse.

Back to the topic, have another read of the post of mine you quoted and get back to me in what part I said that there WAS rust buckets at the Nats this year. It was a point being made that you clearly missed. Now go back and play in the cow paddock!

[Drew]

Eh????? Spoilt prat? Loads of money? Which Marcus are you refering too? Are you suggesting I have loads of money and have it easy attending every round of the Nationals Drew? Make your point cause I clearly am a little slow (and on the bike) and can't figure out your angle! I have, possibly more than most, spent most of my free time getting myself organized to be able to attend the nationals simply because I want to. Its easy for you to slag me off on here about how slow I am and how spoilt I am etc but simply put, it seems you are a tad jealous of my success off the track. If you have something to say to me. next time say it to my face when we are having a laugh at the track rather than being a two faced wannabe...I would appreciate that. Better still, stop taking about how much faster you are than me and get on a bike and come prove it (and try not to trash it while your doing it)...I have no doubt you will feel fantastic about yourself when you will be able to start a thread on here about how you kicked my arse.

Back to the topic, have another read of the post of mine you quoted and get back to me in what part I said that there WAS rust buckets at the Nats this year. It was a point being made that you clearly missed. Now go back and play in the cow paddock!

I never said you had heaps of money.

The point I'm making is that some people spend all their coin getting the bike fit to compete, the way it looks is secondary to it going the way they want.

You are very well organised and have a great opportunity to do what you obviously love, and I wouldn't begrudge anyone that. Well done indeed.

But your five minutes on the scene does not make you an expert, nor does your view of how it should be have any more merit than ANYONE else there doing it.

My comments about your pace are as tongue in cheek as I figured yours were about the cow paddock and crashing. You wanna race me? Come to the hill climb and give it a shot since that's the only likely arena I'll be racing a solo bike in the near future. If you beat me on my standard 1994 RF900 with fucked shocks you will likely be in the prize money positions, I'll match what you win.

I will forgoe the joking around from now on, it seems you cannot discern a difference in opinion from dislike. So I will flag trying to have a good weekend racing and forgetting the bullshit, and climb straight into you about what we don't see eye to eye on.

Two faced? See if you still think so next time we meet, I'll open with questions about some rumours I heard that would get you killed in most pubs I frequent.

[chrispy121]

both you kids behave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Drew]

both you kids behave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aye, I was very restrained and on my best behaviour. Honest I was.

[gixerracer]

Aye, I was very restrained and on my best behaviour. Honest I was.

I thought so, best you have been yet:yes:

[nick2slow]

this thread is all about blah blah blah and craigs gay arrr ha ha ha ha:innocent:

[Shaun]

this thread is all about blah blah blah and craigs gay arrr ha ha ha ha:innocent:



Dam, that;s the most intelligent thing I have ever heard you say Nick

[rat]

You wouldn't need to jack it up if there were actual national level riders....can you imagine if they did that in the superbikes....well they just wouldn't. At the end of the day 1NZ wanted to make sure the stayed national champions and so cobbled together a class.....if they are fine with calling themselves national champions racing against who they are racing against then their egos need a stop check!

nice one, so I take it your not wearing the "Im Mrs Bron" shirt anymore have you been kicked out of the bus? Hahahahaha.

Yes you have a excellent point someone is just paying a half doz people so he can claim to be NZ #1, when there is no class competition out there against him. They all went club and classic racing.

Yeah fuck the sidecars out of the Nationals then see what sandpit he has to play in.

[rat]

If every superbike race was a procession, predictably won by over a minute every time by the same chequebook charlie, would you bother emerging from the crapper to watch it?

Cheque book Charlie?????
Dont you be comparing me to Bum again Bob

[rat]

Without him out there i personally know of five sidecars that would be there.

More than that dude!

[rat]

sorry to turn this into a Negative then, but those 5 must be total pathetic Juvinille wankers then

When the flag drops the bullshit stops, and NO one has to talk to each other, or are you all gay

Nah not Gay.... But they all have fucked a man that was.

[rat]

But i swung just this weekend been Trevor!! Two wins & two seconds.
Im not past it yet!!
Oh. . . and like i said, im not playing in the sandpit anymore, im playing with the nice kids on the climbing tower now.

The climbing Tower is fun

[White trash]

nice one, so I take it your not wearing the "Im Mrs Bron" shirt anymore have you been kicked out of the bus? Hahahahaha.

Yes you have a excellent point someone is just paying a half doz people so he can claim to be NZ #1, when there is no class competition out there against him. They all went club and classic racing.

Yeah fuck the sidecars out of the Nationals then see what sandpit he has to play in.

You seem to know what the score is so please enlighten someone new to the game that doesn't actually KNOW what the current score is and what the problem is. This is a genuine request, I'm wondering.

Why is there this "Fuck Mr Bron, he's fucked our championship and we're not playing anymore." opinion? I genuinely do not get it. I see a guy that wanted to win, so he threw what he could at winning. If I had the wallet I'd do exactly the same thing. I've even joked that if I won powerball I'd import a used NSR500 GP bike to contest F1 of the Victoria Club Winter Series on.

Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I'm assuming that we have a very smelly case of "Tall Poppy Syndrome" within the sidecar ranks. Am I wrong?

PM'd explanation will do, but will carry far less weight than a public explanation obviously.

Looking forward to the masses of feedback.

[rat]

You seem to know what the score is so please enlighten someone new to the game that doesn't actually KNOW what the current score is and what the problem is. This is a genuine request, I'm wondering.

Why is there this "Fuck Mr Bron, he's fucked our championship and we're not playing anymore." opinion? I genuinely do not get it. I see a guy that wanted to win, so he threw what he could at winning. If I had the wallet I'd do exactly the same thing. I've even joked that if I won powerball I'd import a used NSR500 GP bike to contest F1 of the Victoria Club Winter Series on.

Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I'm assuming that we have a very smelly case of "Tall Poppy Syndrome" within the sidecar ranks. Am I wrong?

PM'd explanation will do, but will carry far less weight than a public explanation obviously.

Looking forward to the masses of feedback.

Tall poppy maybe????

Power ball.... Money That's the point.

We sidecar racers are such a small minority of motorcyle racing in NZ that when you throw so much money at going fast in a straight line to beat your oposition, that it stops being competitive.

It would be the same if you did what you have quoted above.

It would be fine in Europe where 40 odd teams have that money and spend it every year to do all the champoinships over there.

But in reallity no one wants to waste money on the Nationals for nothing,
Hence everyone has left the sandpit to have fun again elsewhere (club racing and classics).

unfortunatly that is the bottom line, if you agree with it or not.

And yes we all want to win... but like to have fun on the track and talk shit about it afterwards over a few cold ones, win or lose.

That's the reallity of it all, I'm sure someone else will have a different view of it.

[k14]

Well lucky the other classes don't have that attitude or else there would only be 2-3 riders in each class!

[White trash]

Well lucky the other classes don't have that attitude or else there would only be 2-3 riders in each class!

Bingo.

Sorry Rat, but I don't understand how you can't have fun at Nats if you're not winning. I mean, the first year I got interested was the first year Stacy bought the LCR over. Full sidecar grids, I think about 11 at Puke allthough I could be wrong. Regardless if Stacey was there or not, there were going to be 9 losers not having fun.

Still don't get it.

[rat]

Bingo.

Sorry Rat, but I don't understand how you can't have fun at Nats if you're not winning. I mean, the first year I got interested was the first year Stacy bought the LCR over. Full sidecar grids, I think about 11 at Puke allthough I could be wrong. Regardless if Stacey was there or not, there were going to be 9 losers not having fun.

Still don't get it.

Circulating to make up numbers is not fun to many, especially when you are doing laps by your self.

Come on thats not racing.

And it's not all about winning as i stated.
You can still have fun mid field having a good battle with lots of people.

But the point is that is often missed ...why spend shit loads having mid field battles at nationals when you can half your budget and go classic or club racing and have the same ammount of fun.

Yes I have fun at any race meeting that I'm racing at, it is a generalisation, about why others dont. You posed the question. Just my thoughts on why.
I'm sure there are others.

[Drew]

Circulating to make up numbers is not fun to many, especially when you are doing laps by your self.

Come on thats not racing.

And it's not all about winning as i stated.
You can still have fun mid field having a good battle with lots of people.

But the point is that is often missed ...why spend shit loads having mid field battles at nationals when you can half your budget and go classic or club racing and have the same ammount of fun.

Yes I have fun at any race meeting that I'm racing at, it is a generalisation, about why others dont. You posed the question. Just my thoughts on why.
I'm sure there are others.

Umm, if the rest of the guys who used to run the nationals were there, we might not have circulated by ourselves.

We want to run a chair at club level too, and unfortunately missed the boat when Vic club gave sidecars a go and the numbers were lacking. But the outfits are all over NZ, why are they not racing for the sake of racing? Nationals is cheaper than any other two day meeting I've ever been to.

[lostinflyz]

Circulating to make up numbers is not fun to many, especially when you are doing laps by your self.

Come on thats not racing.

And it's not all about winning as i stated.
You can still have fun mid field having a good battle with lots of people.

But the point is that is often missed ...why spend shit loads having mid field battles at nationals when you can half your budget and go classic or club racing and have the same ammount of fun.

Yes I have fun at any race meeting that I'm racing at, it is a generalisation, about why others dont. You posed the question. Just my thoughts on why.
I'm sure there are others.

sounds like you don't wanna go nats racing. You go there to be challenged by the best, most expensive kit and guys this country has to offer. If you come last, 2 laps down then you know you need to improve (be it skill or budget, whats the difference).

If theres that many sidecars chomping at the bit to go race nats, why not propose to change the rules to level the playing field. I bet if you did the same number would turn up

[Drew]

If theres that many sidecars chomping at the bit to go race nats, why not propose to change the rules to level the playing field. I bet if you did the same number would turn up

I wonder why there isn't a short/long outfit separation on the points anyway. Run them together and everyone wins. Perhaps do it in house in conjunction with the nats so the long chair guys don't have to try and find six to run every meeting cos I dunno if that'd happen.

[lostinflyz]

isn't the idea that long chairs are better on big circuits (faster) and short on tighter or are they supposed to be run seperate?

One of the nice things in superlites is you have bikes that work better at certain tracks than others, thus the potential for various winners or varied results is greater, which makes things much more interesting. You see the same thing in motogp with casey at losail and rossi at sepang.

[rat]

Umm, if the rest of the guys who used to run the nationals were there, we might not have circulated by ourselves.

We want to run a chair at club level too, and unfortunately missed the boat when Vic club gave sidecars a go and the numbers were lacking. But the outfits are all over NZ, why are they not racing for the sake of racing? Nationals is cheaper than any other two day meeting I've ever been to.

Club champs are being run and are about to finish for the season, with classes divided in to long bike, short bike, 600 etc.
We as a club are getting plenty of racing outside of the nationals.

If you want to run a chair at club level all you have to do is join the club and turn up.

[rat]

sounds like you don't wanna go nats racing. You go there to be challenged by the best, most expensive kit and guys this country has to offer. If you come last, 2 laps down then you know you need to improve (be it skill or budget, whats the difference).

If theres that many sidecars chomping at the bit to go race nats, why not propose to change the rules to level the playing field. I bet if you did the same number would turn up

Yep your right I dont want to go to the Nats as per many others.
Yes you improve skill by chasing faster people, but you tell me how you improve budget, when things are stretched for the majority of people just out there to enjoy the sport.

Rule changes have been suggested in the past... Head meet brick wall.

[CHOPPA]

I suppose I can sorta see where RAT is coming from..... If there were no rules on the superbike class and suzuki turned up with a moto gp bike for Andrew to ride it would make me re think my entry to the class.... No I cant beat Andrew even on standard equipment but it is (tecnically) possible, with him on a GP bike no chance!!

[rat]

I suppose I can sorta see where RAT is coming from..... If there were no rules on the superbike class and suzuki turned up with a moto gp bike for Andrew to ride it would make me re think my entry to the class.... No I cant beat Andrew even on standard equipment but it is (tecnically) possible, with him on a GP bike no chance!!

Cheers Choppa,

Your looking at most people with 5k- 10k budget the odd one with double that to spend on a bike, compared to one person spending over 150k on a bike.

And the above is as close as you can get to it in the two wheel world.

[Kickaha]

Yes you have a excellent point someone is just paying a half doz people so he can claim to be NZ #1
Paying 1/2 doz people? not quite sure where you get that from, pulled out of your arse most likely


when there is no class competition out there against him. They all went club and classic racing.

Club racing? what a joke you could barely put 6 sidecars on the grid for the Vic club rounds hence why they won't have them back this year


Yeah fuck the sidecars out of the Nationals then see what sandpit he has to play in.

You ought to be careful what you wish for any loss of opportunity to race a sidecar isn't a good thing


More than that dude!

More than that? yeah that's why you had so many at Vic club when he wasn't there and why the rounds run with AMCC had such good numbers attending



Why is there this "Fuck Mr Bron, he's fucked our championship and we're not playing anymore." opinion? I genuinely do not get it. I see a guy that wanted to win, so he threw what he could at winning. If I had the wallet I'd do exactly the same thing.

So would I, don't know that many people who wouldn't actually, althoug it seems a lot of people would rather we ran around on 20+ year old shitters


Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I'm assuming that we have a very smelly case of "Tall Poppy Syndrome" within the sidecar ranks. Am I wrong?

Pretty much on the button


We sidecar racers are such a small minority of motorcyle racing in NZ that when you throw so much money at going fast in a straight line to beat your oposition, that it stops being competitive.

Going fast in a straight line? possibly a few years back that might have been right but not for the last 2-3


But in reallity no one wants to waste money on the Nationals for nothing, Hence everyone has left the sandpit to have fun again elsewhere (club racing and classics).

Fuck I have to laugh everytime I read that bit about leaving to go club racing (or classics)as it's such obvious bullshit, it took someone other than the NZSRA to even organise some club racing with Vic club and then it was so poorly supported you lot up there threw away the chance to make it a regular thing

Thanks very much to those who did make the effort to enter them:niceone:




But the point is that is often missed ...why spend shit loads having mid field battles at nationals when you can half your budget and go classic or club racing and have the same ammount of fun.

There it goes again Classic or club racing, fuck I haven't laughed so much in ages:killingme


Umm, if the rest of the guys who used to run the nationals were there, we might not have circulated by ourselves.

Exactly and it's became more about everything else than about the racing and there's a lot of people to fucking stupid to see how much damage they're doing the class by not turning up


why are they not racing for the sake of racing?

Fuck knows because at the end of the day that's why I am there


I wonder why there isn't a short/long outfit separation on the points anyway. Run them together and everyone wins. Perhaps do it in house in conjunction with the nats so the long chair guys don't have to try and find six to run every meeting cos I dunno if that'd happen.

That was run 5? years ago with the NZ champs although I think it was Tier1/Tier2 so guys on older gear could have a chance at a trophy


isn't the idea that long chairs are better on big circuits (faster) and short on tighter or are they supposed to be run seperate?


Overseas short bikes are normally F2/600cc, long bikes F1/1000cc and yes there's meant to be advantages on shorter tighter tracks for short bikes, here we run F1/1000cc short bikes as well and I still think a good one of those (only really one in the country) in the right hands would give the top LCR a hurry up

[rat]

Guys there are plenty of other underlying personal reasons that Sidecar teams dont do the nationals at the moment and I have only been generalising about what I feel could be the main reason.

Some of these reasons are stronly affected by what MNZ have done to the class (or not done).

But the sidecar Association is still strong and are running a very good club series that give teams plenty of racing, and will only get stronger over the next year now that the club has a new direction away from MNZ and the Nationals.
(But this is my Opinion only)

Thanks.

Yeah Kick Tier 2 is still running ,and is a club trophy as it always has been not a National trophy.
Also you keep saying about the vic club series, winter series dont work and never will for sidecars, you have been around long enough to know this Kick.

[Kickaha]

Some of these reasons are strongly affected by what MNZ have done to the class (or not done).

Some blatant misrepresentation of what happened with the Timaru truck meeting by a senior MNZ official would have a lot to do with that and even when he was given the true facts regarding it choose to totally ignore them


now that the club has a new direction away from MNZ and the Nationals.
(But this is my Opinion only)

Personally I think that would be a big mistake to have an end to a Sidecar National championship with MNZ and also think that pulling the affiliation with MNZ was also a mistake especially as it was done without consultation of all the membership

Although currently the NZSRA seem to pretty selective with which members they choose to keep informed

I also seriously doubt that going in "another direction" will be as easy as some people seem to think


Also you keep saying about the vic club series, winter series dont work and never will for sidecars, you have been around long enough to know this Kick.

No reason at all that a winter series can't work for sidecars apart from the apathy of those that choose not to support it

Winter series have worked quite well down here for sidecars in previous years I can't see why it should be so much different "up Norf"

[Billy]

Clearly us sidecar types are taking this a bit more personally than any other factions.

Numbers of entries in all classes is what will ultimately bring the punters, and the promotion thereof.

I know people who have never ridden bikes that watch the superbikes because of how spectacular it is. Those same people don't watch the GP because it looks less exciting.

Double the piss poor numbers on the superbike grid and advertise it as 'a scrap till the death, between NZ's best and feature riders from abroad', and Joe public will come with no other motive than Kiwi pride.

Sidecars can be advertised similarly, and raise cash to bring a couple dirty Ausies over to compete. Long and short outfits so everyone can play in the same sandpit, just with different friggin toys.

Just a thought, trying to stay positive so I don't upset Shaun.

Absolutely on the money,Without competitors there is no spectacle!!

As pointed out by Oyster (Peter Jones) its vital the youngsters (lifeblood of the sport) are given the chance too be out with their idols and show their crafts to potential sponsors and besides that the streetstock class runs with the Prolite 250 class which is a National championship class and therefore deserves as much track time as any other,

I can however see the merit in dropping or atleast limiting the track time afforded any class not running as a National championship at these meetings,IE maybe just the 1 race for Motards and clubmans each on the Saturday only and maybe running only 2 races for each Championship class per round.

Notably at round 1 this year there were 9 entries in Supersport 600 and 8 in Prolite 250 (Its first year as a championship class),One of these classes is set to double in size for next year,Can you guess which one ????

This thread smacks of the same old experts with VERY limited experience that think they have it all worked out but never stick their necks out and show us all how to do it better,Thought there was another website that all the knowledge had gone to,Guess not eh!!!

[oyster]

I noticed, as did a few others, that the latest version of the AMCC Champ round at Hampton Downs excludes Streetstock 150. So I e-mailed them up and they explained they kinda forgot etc. So it IS STILL ON for the 150's at this meeting, they'll run with Prolite of course. Get the word out to the keen ones looking to ride an awesome (I assume it is!) track

[chrispy121]

[QUOTE=rat;1129990436]
Some of these reasons are stronly affected by what MNZ have done to the class (or not done).

But the sidecar Association is still strong and are running a very good club series that give teams plenty of racing, and will only get stronger over the next year now that the club has a new direction away from MNZ and the Nationals.
(But this is my Opinion only)

so if side cars have a new direction away from MNZ why are we even discussing why they should be at Nationals? They should go set up their own nationals.


just a question

[Drew]

Some of these reasons are stronly affected by what MNZ have done to the class (or not done).

But the sidecar Association is still strong and are running a very good club series that give teams plenty of racing, and will only get stronger over the next year now that the club has a new direction away from MNZ and the Nationals.
(But this is my Opinion only)


so if side cars have a new direction away from MNZ why are we even discussing why they should be at Nationals? They should go set up their own nationals.


just a questionBecause the sidecar guys can't get their shit in one fuckin sock.

Whatever the reasons for the split in the sidecar scene, I can't help but feel very few of them can see the damage it's doing to the sport.

It is a motorcycle based machine, so I think it should run at bike events, and the nationals is the best stage for it.

They are so much fun, and such a challenge to ride, that if we had our shit together we could get more new people into it.

[Nonbeliever]

now that the club has a new direction away from MNZ and the Nationals.


I'd say at least 90% of spectators at the nationals can only hope and pray this happens, seriously.

[Kickaha]

so if side cars have a new direction away from MNZ why are we even discussing why they should be at Nationals? They should go set up their own nationals.
just a question

Because the NZSRA doesn't represent all the people racing sidecars and doesn't even represent all it's members


I'd say at least 90% of spectators at the nationals can only hope and pray this happens, seriously.

Going by the amount of people we have visit our pits over a weekend I would seriously doubt that figure would be even close