Lane splitting, and I did search...

[cowboyz]

so .. borrowed a bike from freedom suzuki yesterday afternoon.
pulled out of the shop.. up to first set of lights.. where about 50 cars were queued up.. so rode at 20km/hr between the 2 rows to the front.
light green. ambled off nicely and sat on 51km/hr
next thing I know i got a cop up my arse flashing his lights. going.. bad bad bad!
told me off big time and said $150 fine for 'failing to stay in a lane'

thoughts?

[Camshaft]

The cop u dealt with didnt get his morning arse fuck from his boyfriend, so took his frustration out on u, i have and 90% of other ppl on this site have ridden past cops while splitting and no consequence.

[Whynot]

This shit fucks me off ....
Every other country in the world considers lane splitting normal and a part of life.
maybe we should all go out on the motorway one morning and not split just to show these fuckers what difference it actually makes.

[Katman]

If we hadn't set about drawing as much adverse attention to ourselves in the past we probably wouldn't be feeling this much heat at the present.

[Camshaft]

This shit fucks me off ....
Every other country in the world considers lane splitting normal and a part of life.
maybe we should all go out on the motorway one morning and not split just to show these fuckers what difference it actually makes.

good idea, do it at 70 - 80 kph also to make an impact

[Whynot]

If we hadn't set about drawing as much adverse attention to ourselves in the past we probably wouldn't be feeling this heat at the present.

Fuck off arsehole

[Okey Dokey]

My thoughts: that sucks.

[chasio]

If the cars were stopped and you were indicating you probably have a case (not that I'm saying you'd win in court, given it's their word against yours). Have you already paid the fine?

If not, it'd be worth writing in at least.

The rules are explained in this thread which is, admittedly, a loong read: Filtering thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/21150-Lane-splitting-filtering-the-legal-and-commonsense-answers)

[cowboyz]

i talked my way out of a fine. but he was an arse anyhow.... and made me late while i was listening to a lecture on how one of the cars could have turned in front of me (from a standing start) and killed me..... bleh!

[Usarka]

so .. borrowed a bike from freedom suzuki yesterday afternoon.
pulled out of the shop.. up to first set of lights.. where about 50 cars were queued up.. so rode at 20km/hr between the 2 rows to the front.
light green. ambled off nicely and sat on 51km/hr
next thing I know i got a cop up my arse flashing his lights. going.. bad bad bad!
told me off big time and said $150 fine for 'failing to stay in a lane'

thoughts?

Filtering (the term they use the UK for when traffic is stationary at lights) is not legal in NZ.

However there is provision in law for passing stationary vehicles as long as you do it on the right hand side of the vehicle, indicating right, and staying in the same lane (ie keep the lane marker on your right and the car on your left).

I raised this topic in the ACC council thread suggesting it could be something that they could do ie. legitimising the practice. Judging by the comments that the suggestion received it's a STOOPID idea!

[bogan]

so .. borrowed a bike from freedom suzuki yesterday afternoon.
pulled out of the shop.. up to first set of lights.. where about 50 cars were queued up.. so rode at 20km/hr between the 2 rows to the front.
light green. ambled off nicely and sat on 51km/hr
next thing I know i got a cop up my arse flashing his lights. going.. bad bad bad!
told me off big time and said $150 fine for 'failing to stay in a lane'

thoughts?

The rules say it's fine when the other cars are stationary I thought, and 20kmhr doesn't seem unreasonable.

this is from the wiki

(1) A driver must not pass or attempt to pass on the left of another vehicle moving in the same direction except in accordance
with this clause.
(2) In any case in which the movement referred to subclause (1) may be made,—
(a) the 2 vehicles must be in different lanes; or
(b) the overtaken vehicle must be stationary or its driver must have given or be giving the prescribed signal of
that driver's intention to turn right; or
(c) if the overtaken vehicle is a light rail vehicle moving in the same direction, the light rail vehicle must not be—
(i) signalling an intention to turn left or to stop; or
(ii) stationary for the purposes of allowing passengers to alight or board.
(3) If the roadway is marked in lanes, the driver may make the movement referred in subclause (1) only if the driver's vehicle
does not encroach on a lane that is unavailable to a driver.

So not sure what the cop was on about?

[bogan]

Filtering (the term they use the UK for when traffic is stationary at lights) is not legal in NZ.

However there is provision in law for passing stationary vehicles as long as you do it on the right hand side of the vehicle, indicating right, and staying in the same lane (ie keep the lane marker on your right and the car on your left).


that provisions is for passing moving vehicles in the same lane, if you are passing stationary vehicles, you can pass on the left (see above). Not sure how/if you are supposed to indicate though.

[Usarka]

that provisions is for passing moving vehicles in the same lane, if you are passing stationary vehicles, you can pass on the left (see above). Not sure how/if you are supposed to indicate though.

Chur, I should have known that :lol:

[Usarka]

If we hadn't set about drawing as much adverse attention to ourselves in the past we probably wouldn't be feeling this much heat at the present.

Yeah the cops are starting to notice how many speeding tickets they are handing out to dickheads on bikes. Fucking hypocrite.

[davebullet]

Some people just hate bikers with a passion. Some cops are no different. (It's just a job and they have the same prejudices as the rest of us). He let you off because he knew you were being careful and not being an arse back.

Sometimes we have to calm irrate cops. They are people and fair enough - they see enough crap to piss them off that after a while it becomes the norm.

Technically - I think it is illegal if you are changing lane without indicating (and 3 seconds prior indication etc). So if you are staying within the lane all the way up to the lights - nothing illegal. If you zip back and forward to avoid wing mirrors (as you do) - technically an illegal lane change and fine can legally be applied.

[mattian]

If we hadn't set about drawing as much adverse attention to ourselves in the past we probably wouldn't be feeling this much heat at the present.

yourself included? perhaps then you wouldn't mind paying off some of his fine for him then. Seeing as it is all of our faults.

[nallac]

Yeah the cops are starting to notice how many speeding tickets they are handing out to dickheads on bikes. Fucking hypocrite.

Hey leave Rossi alone...hes the only one who can speed and still be safe...
unlike the rest of us.......even with clean license's.

[YellowDog]

It is a bit annoying when you are showing respect to other road users whilst riding with due care and attention; that Mr Plod with his standard script decides to assult you in this way.

[Flip]

I am not aware of any specific regulation saying you can not filter past stopped vehicles, some cops don't like it but well basically they can procreate with themselves as they don't (yet) make the law. Its not as if you were passing on the left and the charge of failing to stay in your lane is as applicable as being charged with impeding the traffic flow while waiting in a queue of traffic.

Is there any reg that says motorcycles may not filter to the front of a traffic queue? No. I wonder if the snake is aware of the axiom "The law does not concern itself with trifles".

The reason you didn't get a ticket is the snake knows you did nothing illegal.

[riffer]

The reason you didn't get a ticket is the snake knows you did nothing illegal.

Bollocks - I have been done for the same "unsafe lane change" and have the ticket to prove it. I seem to recall at the time I posted it here on KB.

At the end of the day it's up to you to try and defend it in court if you don't agree with it. If more people defended tickets in court the cops would give out less of them.

[Berries]

The thread is getting a bit long considering the OP didn't in fact get the $150 fine mentioned in the first post. If the cop was certain it was worth a fine he would have given a ticket.

The issue as I see it is that you filter past a shed load of traffic to get to the front of a queue and then amble away at 51km/h. On a borrowed bike. I would have given you a ticket for that.

[yachtie10]

The thread is getting a bit long considering the OP didn't in fact get the $150 fine mentioned in the first post. If the cop was certain it was worth a fine he would have given a ticket.

The issue as I see it is that you filter past a shed load of traffic to get to the front of a queue and then amble away at 51km/h. On a borrowed bike. I would have given you a ticket for that.

care to explain what the ticket would be for??
also what does the fact its borrowed have to do with it?

[RideLife]

However there is provision in law for passing stationary vehicles as long as you do it on the right hand side of the vehicle, indicating right, and staying in the same lane (ie keep the lane marker on your right and the car on your left).


I am not yet convinced you have to be indicating when passing within the same lane.
Don't you indicate to change lanes? Not to pass cars.
So if passing a line of cars, while staying in the same lane as them (on their right), there is no legal requirement to indicate. Only if you feel the need to cross the lane line would a three second indicator be required.

Thus 'filtering' between stationary traffic, is quite legal on ether side of that broken white line that marks the lanes. But if in this process, you wish to move half a metre to the other side of the lines, you legally need to indicate that intention 3 seconds before the manuver. (Which is the Arse of the whole matter!)
Of course, once the traffic to your right starts moving again, you may no longer pass them on their left, within their lane.

[FJRider]

so ..... next thing I know i got a cop up my arse flashing his lights. going.. bad bad bad!
told me off big time and said $150 fine for 'failing to stay in a lane'

thoughts?

Begs the question ... DID you stay in your lane ... ???

or .... did you just tootle between the cars with no actual regard as to which lane you were in ... ???

[Usarka]

At the end of the day it's up to you to try and defend it in court if you don't agree with it. If more people defended tickets in court the cops would give out less of them.
Or if it was made a "legitimate" maneouver. Like in other countries that we so fondly go to for road safety ideas......

[sleemanj]

I raised this topic in the ACC council thread suggesting it could be something that they could do ie. legitimising the practice. Judging by the comments that the suggestion received it's a STOOPID idea!

I don't think it's a STOOPID idea - firming up the legislation so that it is unequivocally legal and there need be no more threads about this and when some Nobby of the Watch waves his finger we can reply with some specific reference which lays out that it's legal.

BUT, it's not a job for the motorcycle safety levy council or ACC to handle using our Motorcycle Safety Levies - there would be no practical measurable safety improvement that could be demonstrated from that (could even backfire, more safe to clearly prohibit the practice :facepalm:)

So yes, we should lobby to get it much better defined, but lobby the NZTA or at least Police, not the new safety council.

[steve_t]

i wonder if there are any stats collected by ACC about accidents involving a motorcycle that happened while the biker was 'filtering' through stationary traffic.
If people think it's unsafe, show them the video of the guy that lands on his feet after getting smashed into from behind :corn:

[Usarka]

BUT, it's not a job for the motorcycle safety levy council or ACC to handle using our Motorcycle Safety Levies - there would be no practical measurable safety improvement that could be demonstrated from that (could even backfire, more safe to clearly prohibit the practice :facepalm:)
.

I see your point but I disagree. A reasonable percentage of accidents occur because of other drivers (not a majority, but still a reasonable percentage). I see this as an indirect way of improving this, buy legitimising biking - because currently there are lots and lots and lots of car drivers who think bikers are a law unto themselves.....

AS i said, just my thought and obviously my neurons are fried.... (actually right now they are :wari:)

[bogan]

i wonder if there are any stats collected by ACC about accidents involving a motorcycle that happened while the biker was 'filtering' through stationary traffic.
If people think it's unsafe, show them the video of the guy that lands on his feet after getting smashed into from behind :corn:

Or the US article where bikers were killed (iirc) and hospitalised when a trucked failed to stop.

[Flip]

It would be very easy for the authority to simply make a regulation that says motorcycles may not filter to the front of a line of vehicles.

I did notice on a recent trip to Orcland that the locals are very happy to queue in 2 lanes even when 2 lanes were not marked on the road. It actually surprised me in my rental when cars pulled up on my left hand side, some technically passing on the left.

[FJRider]

It would be very easy for the authority to simply make a regulation that says motorcycles may not filter to the front of a line of vehicles.

I did notice on a recent trip to Orcland that the locals are very happy to queue in 2 lanes even when 2 lanes were not marked on the road. It actually surprised me in my rental when cars pulled up on my left hand side, some technically passing on the left.

ORCLAND policy ... if somebody can ... somebody WILL ...

[GOONR]

Begs the question ... DID you stay in your lane ... ???

or .... did you just tootle between the cars with no actual regard as to which lane you were in ... ???

If both lanes are stationary it legally makes no difference.

[Katman]

because currently there are lots and lots and lots of car drivers who think bikers are a law unto themselves.....


Fuck, what could possibly have ever given them that idea?

[steve_t]

If both lanes are stationary it legally makes no difference.

Actually, I think FJRider is right. If you were cruising down the motorway and both lanes were empty and you chose to use the cats eyes to slalom, the cops could probably do you for 'failing to stay in lane' especially lately

[GOONR]

Actually, I think FJRider is right. If you were cruising down the motorway and both lanes were empty and you chose to use the cats eyes to slalom, the cops could probably do you for 'failing to stay in lane' especially lately

But that would make the lanes empty, not stationary.

[steve_t]

But that would make the lanes empty, not stationary.

I'm pretty sure 'failing to stay in lane' doesn't differentiate between if there is traffic there or not. It's a pretty broad term. The example was used to illustrate that even if the cars are stationary (or moving or not present), they could probably choose to charge you with 'failing to stay in lane'.
But yeah, it's crap. And does anything ever get done about scooter riders zipping down the cycle lane on the left?!

[swbarnett]

If both lanes of cars are stationary it is legal to filter to the front. No ifs, buts or maybes.

A friend of mine got pulled over for exactly that and told the cop in no uncertain terms that he didn't know his arse from his elbow (although probably in much stronger language). The cop checked with HQ and came back (obviously pissed off at being proved wrong) to wish him a nice day as he was perfectly correct.

[cowboyz]

The thread is getting a bit long considering the OP didn't in fact get the $150 fine mentioned in the first post. If the cop was certain it was worth a fine he would have given a ticket.

The issue as I see it is that you filter past a shed load of traffic to get to the front of a queue and then amble away at 51km/h. On a borrowed bike. I would have given you a ticket for that.

well.. I normally would have taken off alot quicker but....
I had just passed a cop and didnt want to draw attetnion to myself
I was on a FXR150!
And my amble... was still getting away from the lights way quicker than the cars did.. I didnt hold anyone up at all. I was careful about the speed though being as I have a record longer than kbs bullshit for speeding tickets and I was well aware that a cop was a few cars back.


Begs the question ... DID you stay in your lane ... ???

or .... did you just tootle between the cars with no actual regard as to which lane you were in ... ???

i was sitting bang on the white line the whole way. heaps and heaps of room.. FXRs are not very wide at all!


If both lanes of cars are stationary it is legal to filter to the front. No ifs, buts or maybes.

A friend of mine got pulled over for exactly that and told the cop in no uncertain terms that he didn't know his arse from his elbow (although probably in much stronger language). The cop checked with HQ and came back (obviously pissed off at being proved wrong) to wish him a nice day as he was perfectly correct.

apparently not.. In the rant he actually referred to it being 'illegal to lane split (he called it that) in front of a police officer. He didnt say it was illegal to do it with the cop not there. He also said if one of the stationary cars decided to suddenly change lanes (apart from plowing into the car right next door to them) it would be my fault and i would have no insurance and be charged for dangerous driving.

[Owl]

i was sitting bang on the white line the whole way. heaps and heaps of room.. FXRs are not very wide at all!

Tennis you're in, rugby you're out, road............I don't fucken know:scratch:

[p.dath]

i wonder if there are any stats collected by ACC about accidents involving a motorcycle that happened while the biker was 'filtering' through stationary traffic.
If people think it's unsafe, show them the video of the guy that lands on his feet after getting smashed into from behind :corn:

The Ministry of Transport collects statistics on accidents relating to unsafe lane changes. They are minimal. Last time I looked, there were more accidents for people travelling in a straight line.

[Maha]

so .. borrowed a bike from freedom suzuki yesterday afternoon.
pulled out of the shop.. up to first set of lights.. where about 50 cars were queued up.. so rode at 20km/hr between the 2 rows to the front.
light green. ambled off nicely and sat on 51km/hr
next thing I know i got a cop up my arse flashing his lights. going.. bad bad bad!
told me off big time and said $150 fine for 'failing to stay in a lane'

thoughts?

50 cars? in a queue? in Palmerston North?......:corn:

[p.dath]

You might be interested in the last letter I sent to my local Road Policing Manager:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/117478-North-Shore-Northern-Motorway-Police-targeting-motorcycles-(25-January)?p=1129624549#post1129624549

And his response:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/117478-North-Shore-Northern-Motorway-Police-targeting-motorcycles-(25-January)?p=1129641502#post1129641502

[Owl]

50 cars? in a queue? in Palmerston North?......:corn:

Every weekday in Rangitikei St at 5.05pm. Up to 600m queues:facepalm:

[Maha]

Every weekday in Rangitikei St at 5.05pm. Up to 600m queues:facepalm:

OMG say it isnt so!..makes the 15km queues on the M/Way look like a walk in the park, you poor buggers, I feel fo ya's....:sunny:

[Swoop]

he actually referred to it being "illegal to lane split in front of a police officer".
It is nice to see that this policeman takes time out of his day, to write his own laws.:facepalm:

[swbarnett]

apparently not.. In the rant he actually referred to it being 'illegal to lane split (he called it that) in front of a police officer. He didnt say it was illegal to do it with the cop not there. He also said if one of the stationary cars decided to suddenly change lanes (apart from plowing into the car right next door to them) it would be my fault and i would have no insurance and be charged for dangerous driving.
The fact that he didn't give you a ticket tells me that he was probably just saying what he wishes was law, not what the law actually says. In my freind's case it was an adjudication from HQ that put him right. In any case, a cop has no special privileges under law unless they are reacting to a preceived offence. At other times they are just another car in the traffic.

[PuppetMaster]

I too have been ticketed for lane splitting. The difference being, the rapist, sorry, the cop, alleged that the vehicles I were passing had started to move and I hadnt moved back into a lane. Bollocks I said, he was 100 meteres behind me, how did he see. He told me to learn the road rules to which I replied he should get a real job, anyway, sombitch gave me a ticket, which I went to court for and it was duely thrown out. I argued that I was passing stationary traffic (slowly and safely), the judge agreed.
Rediculous waste of time.

[Maha]

It is nice to see that this policeman takes time out of his day, to write his own laws.:facepalm:

Bikers sometimes make it up as they go along also.

[Owl]

OMG say it isnt so!..makes the 15km queues on the M/Way look like a walk in the park, you poor buggers, I feel fo ya's....:sunny:

15km queues?:shit:

Not sure I could lane split that far in the ute:blink:

[NZsarge]

OMG say it isnt so!..makes the 15km queues on the M/Way look like a walk in the park, you poor buggers, I feel fo ya's....:sunny:

Time to move to Palmy where the queues are only 600m then innit?

[cowboyz]

Time to move to Palmy where the queues are only 600m then innit?

dont encourage him! last time he was here i drunk way tooo much!

[Smifffy]

In the rant he actually referred to it being 'illegal to lane split (he called it that) in front of a police officer. He didnt say it was illegal to do it with the cop not there. He also said if one of the stationary cars decided to suddenly change lanes (apart from plowing into the car right next door to them) it would be my fault and i would have no insurance and be charged for dangerous driving.

Maybe he felt a sudden U-turn looming in his future?