Community work for woman who killed three cyclists [Archive]

oneofsix

14th February 2011, 10:49

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/community-work-woman-killed-three-cyclists-4025538

This is about that woman from Hamilton who crossed the centreline and ploughed into a group of cyclists. She got 300 hours community service and ordered to pay $30,000.

article doesn't say enough about the cause of the crash to judge her. She appears pretty cut up about it and sounds like at least one of the victims family members feel for her. The $30000 could be more of a penalty depending on her circumstances or does insurance pay this under a public liability clause - yeah right

DEVVIL

14th February 2011, 10:50

Their life is worth 100 hrs each eh.:angry:

dipshit

14th February 2011, 10:51

Lucky she didn't kill a dog. Then she would have been in real trouble.

The Baron

14th February 2011, 11:48

So - the question is - just how many people do you have to kill before you go to jail.

This judgement does not sit well with me.

scumdog

14th February 2011, 12:03

Clockwork

14th February 2011, 14:11

Good thing she didn't shoot them while spotlighting eh!

My thoughts, exactly!

EJK

14th February 2011, 15:12

Their life is worth 100 hrs each eh.:angry:

Say.... If it was to be converted in monetary figure, that's....
(say minimum wage) $13 * 100 = $1,300.

Their life's worth $1,300 each. Equavalent to a 42" TV.

Fuck. That. Shit.

SMOKEU

14th February 2011, 15:17

If you're being careless with a gun and kill someone then you get a more severe punishment than if you're being careless with a cage and kill someone. Something's not right with that.

Cars are a much more dangerous weapon than a rifle or a shotgun.

Spearfish

14th February 2011, 15:27

Good thing she didn't shoot them while spotlighting eh!

He got off lite to.

What happened to the rest of his "mates" with that one?

dipshit

14th February 2011, 15:45

Their life's worth $1,300 each. Equavalent to a 42" TV.

If you leave your dog in your car while you pop into the supermarket to do some shopping and it dies of heat stroke... it could cost you "three years in prison, a fine not exceeding $75,000, or both"

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/4558121/Two-more-dogs-die-in-hot-cars

Imagine if she had killed 3 dogs...!!! :shit:

EJK

14th February 2011, 16:38

"The riders were travelling in a group of 10."

I wonder if they were riding side by side covering the entire road.
If so, well... then the shoe is on the other foot.

The Pastor

14th February 2011, 16:45

good thing she didnt take some undersize fish, then she would of been in a stack load more trouble!

JimO

14th February 2011, 16:54

Their life is worth 100 hrs each eh.:angry:

they were only fuckin cyclists, there is a thread on here complaining about them riding 6 abreast....burn her and burn them as well ??? she made a mistake, a BIG mistake it could have happened to anyone, it could happen to any one of the KB weekend warriors overcooking a corner and hitting some cyclists, she isnt a career crim, probably has never been in court before and probably will never be in court again, should she have been locked away for 20 years?? i dont think so

phill-k

14th February 2011, 17:29

If you leave your dog in your car while you pop into the supermarket to do some shopping and it dies of heat stroke... it could cost you "three years in prison, a fine not exceeding $75,000, or both"

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/4558121/Two-more-dogs-die-in-hot-cars

Imagine if she had killed 3 dogs...!!! :shit:

which interestingly is more than if you pop a popo on the nose:innocent:

Wannabiker

14th February 2011, 20:50

they were only fuckin cyclists, there is a thread on here complaining about them riding 6 abreast....burn her and burn them as well ??? she made a mistake, a BIG mistake it could have happened to anyone, it could happen to any one of the KB weekend warriors overcooking a corner and hitting some cyclists, she isnt a career crim, probably has never been in court before and probably will never be in court again, should she have been locked away for 20 years?? i dont think so

Yes...and it could have been her overcooking the corner, losing control and ploweing into you, killing you, and 2 mates... If it had of been a group of motorcyclists dead it would be a different story wouldnt it...

Woodman

14th February 2011, 20:54

Okay then,

What would be an appropriate sentence then????????????

JimO

14th February 2011, 20:56

Yes...and it could have been her overcooking the corner, losing control and ploweing into you, killing you, and 2 mates... If it had of been a group of motorcyclists dead it would be a different story wouldnt it...

well if she killed me i wouldnt be giving a fuck seeing as i would be dead and my wife will be off on a cruse with hulio the pool boy on my life insurance

marty

14th February 2011, 21:31

I wonder if they were riding side by side covering the entire road.
If so, well... then the shoe is on the other foot.

they were on the other side of the road. she lost control on a soft corner and crossed the centreline ploughing into the group. i have ridden with them and they were beyond sensible and safe. flouro gear, strictly 2 abreast unless road was narrow or cars approached from behind, then it was single file. mums and kids and nice guys.

tri boy

15th February 2011, 06:01

Okay then,

What would be an appropriate sentence then????????????

Three years in the slammer.
Loss of licence for ten years.
OK, she was asqueaky clean Morrinsville gal, who has never been in trouble before yadda yadda yadda, but she was still responsible for the DEATH of 3 members of joe citizen legally and consideratly cycling on a country road.
The families of the deceased have "forgiven" her for her actions and I think the beak went lightly due to this.
But. This means her case can be used in an argument for further light sentances for similar road crimes, I think.

scracha

15th February 2011, 06:17

Three years in the slammer.
Loss of licence for ten years.
OK, she was asqueaky clean Morrinsville gal, who has never been in trouble before yadda yadda yadda, but she was still responsible for the DEATH of 3 members of joe citizen legally and consideratly cycling on a country road.
The families of the deceased have "forgiven" her for her actions and I think the beak went lightly due to this.
But. This means her case can be used in an argument for further light sentances for similar road crimes, I think.

Banishment from Morrinsville town limits forever - I'm sure the families don't want to see her walking and driving (despite the bullshit about "I'll never drive again") around.
10% of her wage going to the families for the rest of her life.
Similarly, 10% of her assets upon her death

Wannabiker

15th February 2011, 06:27

well if she killed me i wouldnt be giving a fuck seeing as i would be dead and my wife will be off on a cruse with hulio the pool boy on my life insurance

If your life is that cheap I am suprised you bother with life insurance...you obviously miss my point.....and it is obviously wasted on you.

Bender

15th February 2011, 06:27

Maha

15th February 2011, 06:30

Does anyone know how the families of the deceased feel about the sentence handed down?

Oakie

15th February 2011, 06:54

Does anyone know how the families of the deceased feel about the sentence handed down?

Well the families did place a submission before the judge requesting that she not go to jail so I suppose they're satisfied with that.

That submission really needs to be in the forefront of people's minds when commenting on the 'lightness' of her punishment in this thread. If the families were big enough to do that then perhaps posters here should respect that.

scumdog

15th February 2011, 06:57

Until the courts start handing down some deterrent sentences for bad driving, our roads will never become safer and NZ's drivers AND motorcycle riders will continue to behave like they are bulletproof, own the roads and fuck everybody else on them.

How about the fence at the top of the cliff instead of the ambo at the bottom?

Until proper driver/riding training is mandatory and the obtaining a licence is made more expensive in terms of money and time we can expect more of this shit.

oneofsix

15th February 2011, 07:02

How about the fence at the top of the cliff instead of the ambo at the bottom?

Until proper driver/riding training is mandatory and the obtaining a licence is made more expensive in terms of money and time we can expect more of this shit.

Agreed the courts in this case are after the fact. No one (mostly) sets out to cause a crash so punishment is only revenge. It would deter if there was any thought that it could happen to us but for that to occur we have to be trained in how it happens.
Don't agree with the making the licence more expensive just as a punitive training aid but see where doing the training will add cost.

Okey Dokey

15th February 2011, 07:50

I believe the sentencing judge said that the offending was at the lower end of the scale (ie no speeding, alcohol, cell phone use) but that the outcome was tragic. That coupled with the victims' families asking that she not go to jail surely had an effect on the sentence set.

Can anyone recall the case in the lower South Island within the last 2 years where a tourist in a rental van drifted off the side of the road (tired or inattentive), then overcorrected crossed the centre line and hit a group of motorcyclists, killing 2? The case has similarities, but I don't recall the sentence.

Swoop

15th February 2011, 07:51

Don't agree with the making the licence more expensive just as a punitive training aid but see where doing the training will add cost.
The cost is irrelevant. Quality of training and experience to gain roadcraft and driving skills is paramount.
If a person cannot afford training to get a licence, then they save up beforehand. Why should NZ "give away" licences? We already have enough (unskilled, under-trained, fully untrained) fuckwits on the roads.:facepalm:

We also need to follow the overseas example of NOT permitting famaily members to train siblings!

oneofsix

15th February 2011, 07:54

The cost is irrelevant. Quality of training and experience to gain roadcraft and driving skills is paramount.
If a person cannot afford training to get a licence, then they save up beforehand. Why should NZ "give away" licences? We already have enough (unskilled, under-trained, fully untrained) fuckwits on the roads.:facepalm:

We also need to follow the overseas example of NOT permitting famaily members to train siblings!

I agreed that training would cost, but the way it was first presented it was like the govt would just make sitting the licence more expensive as a tax, something they would love provided it could be diverted into their slush fund.

Swoop

15th February 2011, 07:59

...like the govt would just make sitting the licence more expensive as a tax
Yeah, that's just not on.
IF they SERIOUSLY want to do something about NZ's road toll, this would be the first place to look (along with tightening the bollocks screws on the fecking judges!).

oneofsix

15th February 2011, 08:06

IF they SERIOUSLY want to do something about NZ's road toll, this would be the first place to look (along with tightening the bollocks screws on the fecking judges!).

Second place is to get off the "speed kills" bollocks and to police basic driving skills like indicating, lane selection etc. Ensure drivers (and riders) are driving. Make people realise driving isn't just something that happens whilst you travel from A to B, but is serious. Get them doing the basics right and they will start to realize how dangerous it is, appropriate speed will tend to follow as a cause and affect thing.

Clockwork

15th February 2011, 08:13

Well the families did place a submission before the judge requesting that she not go to jail so I suppose they're satisfied with that.

That submission really needs to be in the forefront of people's minds when commenting on the 'lightness' of her punishment in this thread. If the families were big enough to do that then perhaps posters here should respect that.

I don't agree.... bad driving like this has a much wider affect on all of society, everyone else needs to be considered too.

Perhaps a short term in a minimum security prison and an extended home detention and loss of license. People need to understand that killing someone with a vehicle is just as unacceptable as killing someone with a gun, or any other way for that matter.

15th February 2011, 12:15

As sweet a child as she may be. As remorseful as she may be. As unintentional as the crash may have been. The sentence was far too light for taking three lives.

The danger of this light sentence is the message it is sending to the wider polulation. If you come across as upset by 'your mistake' you can walk away free from killing 3 people.

And as far as I have read on this, she can't offer any explanation, let alone an understandable one, as to why she lost control on a modest bend. A seizure for example would be understandable. But no, she was sober, not using a phone and supposedly driving at 80kph in a 100kph zone. From press photos there was good visibililty through the modest curve of the road, the riders were on the opposite side of the road and in hi-viz wear. WHAT THE HELL WAS SHE DOING??? No seriously, I'm not being cynical. What could possibly distract her for SO LONG as to not see she was off course, not see the riders coming towards her and not be able to correct her course at such a slow speed. It's pretty simple, turn the steering wheel. At 80kph you have plenty of control over a car's movements and plenty of braking room. OK, they said the road was damp. Cars with four tires on the ground give bloody good control on damp roads at 80kph.

Had she veered 1 or 2 metres into them I could accept this from a moments inattention. BUT she went right across her lane, across the centreline, across the other lane to hit them!

Her failure to even explain her actions to me is reason enough for home detection as a minimum.

JimO

15th February 2011, 14:43

marty

15th February 2011, 15:15

as i understand it, it was light rain she came around the corner and braked,when she saw the cyclists, car locked up and skidded across the road, i would say panic took over and she was just along for the ride, as most people would be in that situation

hmm. you weren't there, and you understand it wrong. my 15 year old daughter would have done a better job at controlling the car than miss king did (or didn't in this case)

marty

15th February 2011, 15:27

google pix of the crash site. i've highlighted the position the bikes were hit

232271232270

avgas

15th February 2011, 15:27

Seems fair - she can serve the community by servicing my......

superman

15th February 2011, 16:12

Could tie this into the other thread.

I wonder if these bikes hadn't been riding in a group, how many would still be alive today. They should have the same 2-seconds behind eachother rule as everyone else on the open road.

The only reason they ride in the group is to be seen.

So again, it's cagers faults for not looking and making cyclists feel to be safe they need to ride in such a tight group, the car might as well have been ten pin bowling. :facepalm:

JimO

15th February 2011, 18:03

unfortunatly shit happens and cyclists have no protection, personally i feel they have no place on the open road, cars travelling at 100ks and people weaving about on bikes traveling at (sometimes) 10 ks dont mix.

15th February 2011, 18:13

google pix of the crash site. i've highlighted the position the bikes were hit

232271232270

Thanks. That's what I remember seeing on the news at the time. A stretch of road that to me is closer to straight than a corner. It is absolutely beyond belief that someone could be so utterly useless as to 'lose control' at 80kph there.

I recall a distressed family member of a victim making a similar comment along the lines of "There's no excuse, you just can't crash on such a gentle curve?"

JimO

15th February 2011, 18:44

"There's no excuse, you just can't crash on such a gentle curve?"

i will have to ask my very experienced mate who crashed his ducati on a gentle right hander, bike written off, smashed leg, fractured scull, broken ribbs broken ancle, last in a group of bikes not speeding fine day, good road

15th February 2011, 19:18

i will have to ask my very experienced mate who crashed his ducati on a gentle right hander, bike written off, smashed leg, fractured scull, broken ribbs broken ancle, last in a group of bikes not speeding fine day, good road
It's quite simple really. Something MUST cause a crash. Either your mate was utterly useless at negotiating a gentle right hander - and you say he's experienced so that should rule that reason out. Therefore something caused him to crash? A pot hole, loose stones, diesel spill, blow out, sun strike, bird strike, animal strike, texting, the easter bunny, whatever.

I'd just like to see the facts come out as to what caused this girl to go so far off course as to kill three visible people positioned at the far edge of the other side of the road.

98tls

15th February 2011, 19:28

Yes...and it could have been her overcooking the corner, losing control and ploweing into you, killing you, and 2 mates... If it had of been a group of motorcyclists dead it would be a different story wouldnt it...

Blah blah blah,we live in a country that cant convict anyone for the death of 2 baby boys ffs.

Shadows

15th February 2011, 23:59

I'm beginning to think that the driving test examiner that signed her off as competent enough to drive in the first place should have been charged instead.

marty

16th February 2011, 06:36

Thanks. That's what I remember seeing on the news at the time. A stretch of road that to me is closer to straight than a corner. It is absolutely beyond belief that someone could be so utterly useless as to 'lose control' at 80kph there.

I recall a distressed family member of a victim making a similar comment along the lines of "There's no excuse, you just can't crash on such a gentle curve?"

i ride/drive that road a couple of times a week. and cycle it once a week. the corner is a gentle flat to uphill rh sweeper with no speed advisory. i have never had problem with quarry shit on the road there (all trucks are washed prior to exit) and have comfortably taken the corner at varying speeds. i can't see how it happened - sun strike not an issue at that time of day. either vehicle condition/failure, or simple inattention is my guess.

avgas

16th February 2011, 08:23

The only reason they ride in the group is to be seen.
I'm sorry but what the fuck?

The only reason.

I think more often then not it has nothing to do with being seen - and its more the social aspect of cycling in a group/team.

I know of plenty of professional riders that ride alone and do other things 'to be seen'.

I don't buy your press BS for a second.

superman

16th February 2011, 09:00

I'm sorry but what the fuck?

The only reason.

I think more often then not it has nothing to do with being seen - and its more the social aspect of cycling in a group/team.

I know of plenty of professional riders that ride alone and do other things 'to be seen'.

I don't buy your press BS for a second.

You can be in a group riding behind eachother? Like motorcyclists do. Why squash yourselves up together? I don't see them talking while they are going, they are much too focused on pedal, pedal, pedal.

Unless they like staring at eachothers lycra bodies up close... hmm that might be it actually I'll go with that.

Clockwork

16th February 2011, 10:15

scumdog

16th February 2011, 10:31

I believe it's called drafting.

Some people just open their mouths eh!!

(or get hold of a keyboard)

avgas

16th February 2011, 10:33

You can be in a group riding behind eachother? Like motorcyclists do. Why squash yourselves up together? I don't see them talking while they are going, they are much too focused on pedal, pedal, pedal.

Unless they like staring at eachothers lycra bodies up close... hmm that might be it actually I'll go with that.
a) they are morons who 'race' on the road, its called competing. I have seen them chatting also however.

b) yes I also imagine there is an element of that too

but as for your ONLY reason.......are you willing to admit you were wrong?

Spearfish

16th February 2011, 10:56

So this becomes case law?

Wow I can feel the fear of consequence building amongst the driving public to not do the "woops, shyt, that was close, ah well.." style of driving murdering 400 people a year.
That little pang in the back of the mind, the will I wont I pang just before doing something really really risky or stupid just got a little quieter.

superman

16th February 2011, 15:48

a) they are morons who 'race' on the road, its called competing. I have seen them chatting also however.

b) yes I also imagine there is an element of that too

but as for your ONLY reason.......are you willing to admit you were wrong?

Yes ok it wasn't the only reason! I'll be more careful with my wording next time :yes:

EJK

17th February 2011, 11:56

"Girl's 'stupid' decision resulted in two deaths.

Christy was 3 1/2 times over the youth drink-driving limit, had held a learner's licence for only five weeks, and there were no seatbelts in the back of the van.

TINI CHRISTIE: Sentenced to 10 months' home detention and 300 hours of community work."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4667079/Girls-stupid-decision-resulted-in-two-deaths

Something to think about...?