RG150 electrics no longer working

[Jase W]

I've recently rebuilt the engine on my RG (again). It was hard to start, and when it did start it was very jerky, not revving when throttle opened but jumping up and down the revs, maxing at about 8k. I cleaned the carb, checked the plug, checked the electrical connections, charged the battery and checked the magneto was seated correctly. Now it will not start at all - I get the very occasional splutter of life but it will not fire up. None of the lights etc are working either, this is after fully charging the battery - it seems like the bike is not getting power at all.

Has anyone had a similar problem? I have had the engine out a few times and have never had an electrical issue before so its a bit beyond me at this point. Thanks for any help.

[quallman1234]

Checked the spark? Didn't back fire or anything like that?

Will it crash start?

Give me a yell, i can come take a looksie. Phone numbers on your profile.

-Kyle H

[Jase W]

It does backfire after enough kicks, seems to get spark as it does run for a couple of beats very occasionally. Wont crash start either.

I'll flick you a txt if I don't have any luck, thanks :)

[Str8 Jacket]

Test/check your little black box... ;)

[Jase W]

The CDI box? How do I check that/what am I looking for?

[notme]

I've recently rebuilt the engine on my RG (again)........None of the lights etc are working either, this is after fully charging the battery.....

These are the big clues in this particular murder mystery (sorry, not saying you killed her, it was probably manslaughter :-))

So what did you touch in the electrics when you took the engine out? Is it just unplug a couple of connectors or is it more involved? Did you forget to unplug one and lift the engine only to go whoops - and then unplug the last one (which is now a dodgy connection)? Did you reconnect the battery properly? Is there a frame to engine earth strap you forgot about? Try a test light from battery positive to the frame and to the engine.

If there's nothing obvious, start by checking for spark at the plug. Because you say the lights are not working either, you must have an electrical system problem that is pretty widespread so before checking the CDI and so on, check the major connections as above.

See if you can find a wiring diagram for your model, it will make things a lot easier :msn-wink:

[Jase W]

When I remove the engine all I do is unplug anything plugged into it (have never pulled on connections by forgetting them heh). This time was the same as the others, I don't tend to fiddle with the electronics!

Have checked for spark - it is there but looks weak. Sprayed propellant down the carb to try and aid its starting, no luck.

Put the tester across the battery terminals and got nothing. So looks like a dead battery - however it should still start and run without it correct?

Tomorrow I will get a new plug & battery, see if that helps.

Any other key places I should put my tester across?

Thanks for the help.

[notme]

If you get nothing across the battery, it's pretty fooked. Not trying to be funny here, but test the tester....just to make sure!


So looks like a dead battery - however it should still start and run without it correct?

Nope - if it's that dead, the battery is taking most of the energy that your alternator is putting out, hence weak spark and no lights.

Any clues on how the battery would suddenly get that dead though mate? Seems a bit sudden and coincidental that it happened after working on the bike....

Anyhoo - assuming the tester is working and it's showing no volts across the battery, then you need to beg borrow steal or buy a new battery. If you want to find the fault without spending money, a car battery or someone else's bike battery is fine (remove your bike's battery, you want to replace it not try jump starting). A nice bike shop might lend you one if you agree to buy a new one if it turns out to be the problem....good luck with that one though!

I would then spend 5 minutes checking (with a multimeter, best $10 investment you can make for fixing this sort of thing yourself) the rest of the system to make sure nothing else is damaged by following the chart in point 3 of this post:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/132696-Basic-troubleshooting-steps?p=1129943048#post1129943048

BTW, don't worry about the sparkplug unless you need a new one anyway, try the battery first, then decide if you need a new plug.


Thanks for the help.

:niceone:

[Jase W]

I'll try hooking it up to the battery in my Ute first. I think the battery may have died as it sat for a few months in the bike with the key left on by mistake (oops).

If it still wont start with replaced battery & plug, would I then look at the coil next?

[koba]

Fucked battery, buy a new one.
They need a good battery.

Also check the fuse and its holder which is crap and can give trouble.

Edit: Ahh, guilty of too much skim reading! was the replacement new and fully charged? That fuse and holder may still be a pob.

Edit again: Does the Neutral light come on and the bike otherwise behave itself before you try start it now? If not it is probably upstream of the coil. If so check the lead, plug and cap throughly, replace the plug cap at any sign of wear or damage. The standard ones are shit.

[notme]

I'll try hooking it up to the battery in my Ute first. I think the battery may have died as it sat for a few months in the bike with the key left on by mistake (oops).

If it still wont start with replaced battery & plug, would I then look at the coil next?

aaahhhhh a very important clue, you were trying to make it interesting for us weren't ya? :msn-wink:

Battery definitely rooted beyond hope if it's been left on that long. A new battery should sort it, very doubtful anything else is wrong. To be clear on my previous advice to try a car battery if that's all that's handy - remove the bike battery. Either sit the car battery on the bike and connect it if the leads will reach, or leave it in the ute and use jumper cables as if jump starting, but with the bike battery removed. All you need to do is check that the bike starts - don't run it more than a few minutes, and don't disconnect the jumper cables while running. If it starts and runs, go buy a new battery and go for a ride :scooter:

Have edited my previous post to make it clearer :-)

[notme]

Edit: Ahh, guilty of too much skim reading! was the replacement new and fully charged?

....and again! :eek:

Unless I have done the same skimming, he hasn't replaced the battery yet. Sounds like you know the bike in more detail than I do, but he needs to replace the battery first before trying your suggestions

[Str8 Jacket]

.
Sounds like you know the bike in more detail than I do

Yes, he could probably rebuild one in his sleep..... :whistle:

[koba]

....and again! :eek:

Unless I have done the same skimming, he hasn't replaced the battery yet. Sounds like you know the bike in more detail than I do, but he needs to replace the battery first before trying your suggestions

So true, I saw that as I re-read it and thought fuggit!

I'm not a morning person!

[quallman1234]

It should start even with a buggered battery. Will definetely crash start.

I would be looking at testing a different igintion coil/stator. I have spares.

Any luck?

[Jase W]

The battery was dead, it showed that it was charged but then lost it all when any load was put on. A new battery and plug sorted the problem pretty quickly!

Thanks for all the help guys

[notme]

It should start even with a buggered battery. Will definetely crash start.

Not if it's dead flat, or faulty. You need at least enough juice to bring on the dash lights to bump start a vehicle. Plus it seems his battery is more than just flat but actually faulty.

[notme]

The battery was dead, it showed that it was charged but then lost it all when any load was put on. A new battery and plug sorted the problem pretty quickly!

Thanks for all the help guys


:niceone:

(10chars!)

[quallman1234]

Not if it's dead flat, or faulty. You need at least enough juice to bring on the dash lights to bump start a vehicle. Plus it seems his battery is more than just flat but actually faulty.

What world do you live in? Obviously not a 2 stroke world. That may be true for larger bikes. But for a little 2 stroke.
They don't need any charge on the battery. I've had 4 volts on my battery on my RG150, and it still started off the kick. Let alone crash starting it. A few revolutions of the crank give its plently enough spark. (Just make sure you light switch is turned off which in this case it would be because its a race bike).
The battery however in this case was probabaly drawing all the current through it, and not leaving enough for the cdi/igintion coil. Being faulty and all.

Glad you got it sorted Jase!

[notme]

What world do you live in? Obviously not a 2 stroke world. That may be true for larger bikes. But for a little 2 stroke.

My world is the third from the sun, take a left at Saturn and look for the blue planet.

The number of strokes has nothing to do with the charging system, I'm afraid. Yes, there is a correlation where small magneto type igniton engines are usually 2 stroke, but assuming a bike with a standard PM alternator system, 2 stroke, 4 stroke, 1 cylinder, 6 cylinders - it's all irrelevant.


They don't need any charge on the battery. I've had 4 volts on my battery on my RG150, and it still started off the kick. Let alone crash starting it.


Similar to the number of strokes, turning the engine over via kick starting or crash starting makes no difference.


A few revolutions of the crank give its plently enough spark. (Just make sure you light switch is turned off which in this case it would be because its a race bike).

You correctly point out that you'd turn the headlight off if fitted - the reason for this is to leave all the battery juice available to run the ignition system. If the battery is faulty, it's leaving a load across the battery, similar to the headlight, which is what I said in at least 2 previous posts above, and is why I said you won't be able to crash start a bike if the battery is dead flat, or faulty. In this case it was faulty, but the same applies if it's flat as a pancake.

Now, to explain the why of what I've said above - but first note that this is a generalization, and may not apply to every bike out there, but it will apply to most except the out of the ordinary types like older magneto ignitions or BMW type wound field alternators.

If you have very little battery power (i.e. it's too flat to even weakly light up your dash lights) on your standard PM alternator/regulator rectifier system equipped bike, you obviously cannot use electric start. However, if you kick start, you should be able to start it, but don't kid yourself that the alternator is making power, which is powering the ignition system, which is allowing you to start the bike. The battery is providing juuuuust enough go to get the thing firing, which is not a lot of power. Then when the engine is running, yes the alternator is providing all running current. If you can pull the battery out of your bike and kick start it, you have either a magneto ignition, or an auxiliary winding on the alternator, or a very geared down alternator to crank connection, or some other special setup.

The alternator provides buggerall current up until (depending on design) 1 or 2 thousand rpm. You are not able to achieve those rpms's with a kickover - though you do have a better chance with a crash start depending on gearing.

Another wrinkle is that depending on the bike, there are other factors that will stop you from starting with a very flat battery. If you have EFI, you're rooted. If your bike needs to pull in one or more relays like an engine stop relay or ignition relay, you might have trouble. If you have any sort of electronic ignition, you may be screwed.

20 or more years ago, if it had a manual gearbox you could crash start it....nowadays even my manual cage won't crash start! :gob:

Interesting huh? :-)