Indestructible? Not even close

[ADVGD]

As some of you may know I arranged a programmer to cover for me for a 7 day riding and fishing holiday, planned day 2 and 3 to catch up with and ride/document the Macaulay and Godley with 3 others (on trailer in pic below), then spend 3 days riding and fishing some of the lakes and tarns down south.

So what's wrong with this picture?

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-1.jpg

All packed up, have only done about 3000 km since forking out $3,500 for a gearbox rebuild, but had to return home early as the unknown noise that was increasing in volume turned out to be a big end. Unbelievable :weep:

This is the third major trip in a row that this (18 month old and only 27,000km) bike has let me down, the supposedly indestructible DRZ isn’t really doing its reputation any justice. The original response from both Suzuki Auckland and Japan when trying to ascertain why a gearbox would go at only 24,000 resulted in the comment “You are loading up the bike up with too much gear and riding it too hard, a 250cc is simply not designed for this type of use”. Admittedly it does get a hard time, however I chose this bike due to its renowned indestructible reputation, and with the way I meticulously maintain this bike I honestly thought I would be able to see out 50,000km without having such major issues. It is becoming clear I am simply asking too much of this bike.

Anyway, to cut a bollocks story short, I didn’t ride the trip, I ended up playing 4X4 support for the bikes and shot up for a Thar hunt. A pretty good weekend nonetheless, here are some pics...

2 hour ride in the dark, ktm was the only bike with lights, others making do with 4X4 headlights, river was up, many crossings were deep and/or very swift, the track was hard to reconnect with after many sections being washed away, somewhat of a mission for the bikes is a bit of an understatement


http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-3.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-4.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-6.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-7.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-8.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-10.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-11.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-12.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-13.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-14.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-15.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-16.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-17.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-18.jpg

http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/articles/12/74/images/macaulay-ride-2011-19.jpg

[clint640]

Bugger! I kinda suspect that the reason everybody sez that DRZ250's, XR250's etc are super reliable is that not many people actually do big km's on them.

Nice pics, not sure about those knarly river crossings in the dark however :gob:

$3.5K is an expensive gearbox. I've just about finished rebuilding an entire KTM 640 motor for about that. Doing all the work myself though.

Advice on the big end: Check out the prices of a conrod kit vs a whole new crank assembly. Unless the difference is huge get a whole new crank. If you get a rod kit make sure the people know what they're doing with pressing it back together.

Cheers
Clint

[ADVGD]

Bugger! I kinda suspect that the reason everybody sez that DRZ250's, XR250's etc are super reliable is that not many people actually do big km's on them.

You've probably hit the nail on the head there mate, up until the 24,000km mark when the first issues started appearing I have to give it credit for being a faultlessly reliable bike, I had 100% confidence in taking it anywhere. With most feedback saying that anything over 20,000km is high for a 250 it is most likely the case that the majority of these bikes live their lives within that low km reliable threshold that in turn is responsible for these bikes having the reputation for reliability and longevity.


Nice pics, not sure about those knarly river crossings in the dark however :gob:

I have to give full credit to the CRF230 rider, one of the most ballsy female riders I have seen to date.


Advice on the big end: Check out the prices of a conrod kit vs a whole new crank assembly. Unless the difference is huge get a whole new crank. If you get a rod kit make sure the people know what they're doing with pressing it back together.

Cheers for that mate :niceone:

[NordieBoy]

I considered my '79 XR250 to be bullet proof. 6 years of trail riding, classic mx'ing, 2, 3 and 6hr cross country races and it's only just starting to lose a little compression.

But all that adds up to probably 3-4,000km tops.

[Taz]

All my bikes have been faultlessly reliable up until the point they've broken. Then I fix them and they're faultlessly reliable again til they break again.

[Eddieb]

Hurry up and get your license so you can get 650.

[warewolf]

Sorry to hear about yet more troubles ADVGD. I don't think you're pushing the bike too hard at all, that's just a cop-out. It's a small capacity japper... rev the arse off it all day every day won't trouble it. It's an old fashioned low-tech low-stressed trail bike, not a modern hi-rev 4T race bike trying to make 2T-like power at the expense of reliability. I had nearly 20K on my DR-Z250 and it got thrashed on the road, thrashed in the forest doing cross-country races, thrashed in woodhill trying to power through the sand all the time, and commuted during the week. Probably equivalent to 40K of on road only use.

My 1986 Honda CBX250 had an e-start XR250 engine in it. I took it from 39K to 79K in 18 months, lots of that touring moderately loaded, and lots of 500km motorway runs at 120+km/h (in Aussie). Didn't use any oil, ran and started superbly.

So they can do it; however I think you just got a Friday bike. When I was shopping for my KTM 640 I did quite a bit of digging into reliability and easily found many documented examples of grief like yours with various jappers (eg XR650's grenading for no apparent reason). To that end I'm convinced reliability is a lottery not brand related, and where it isn't, the odds aren't strong enough to sway me.

[ADVGD]

Hurry up and get your license so you can get 650.

Counting down the days my friend, just 4 weeks and 4 days to go then I get my shiny new toy :yes:


Sorry to hear about yet more troubles ADVGD

Don't be sorry, send cash donations :p


I had nearly 20K on my DR-Z250 and it got thrashed on the road, thrashed in the forest doing cross-country races, thrashed in woodhill trying to power through the sand all the time, and commuted during the week. Probably equivalent to 40K of on road only use.

My 1986 Honda CBX250 had an e-start XR250 engine in it. I took it from 39K to 79K in 18 months, lots of that touring moderately loaded, and lots of 500km motorway runs at 120+km/h (in Aussie). Didn't use any oil, ran and started superbly.

So they can do it; however I think you just got a Friday bike. When I was shopping for my KTM 640 I did quite a bit of digging into reliability and easily found many documented examples of grief like yours with various jappers (eg XR650's grenading for no apparent reason). To that end I'm convinced reliability is a lottery not brand related, and where it isn't, the odds aren't strong enough to sway me.

Great reply, that info certainly puts a spin on things, that's a lot of K's from 250cc engines, along the lines of what I was anticipating from mine...

[clint640]

Great reply, that info certainly puts a spin on things, that's a lot of K's from 250cc engines, along the lines of what I was anticipating from mine...

Rosie's 250 Sherpa was still purring at 50K km when she sold it. It was starting to smoke a little when cold though. It hadn't been thrashed offroad but certainly saw a lot of gravel, & it did 1000's of km on the throttle stop on road.

Cheers
Clint

[Devil]

Rosie's 250 Sherpa was still purring at 50K km when she sold it. It was starting to smoke a little when cold though. It hadn't been thrashed offroad but certainly saw a lot of gravel, & it did 1000's of km on the throttle stop on road.

Cheers
Clint

It's going to get a new piston, rings and gaskets soon...

[Padmei]

Bugger the license just get a 400- how many cops are in the back of beyond?

[junkmanjoe]

can cut you a deal on a tidy 400.......:drinknsin

JMJ

[JATZ]

:gob: Not good to hear.....

FYI... the 250 and the 350 are both doing about 7000 rpm @ 100k's, the Big was doing about 3800 at the same speed. So your little machine is workin pretty hard :blink:

[NordieBoy]

:gob: Not good to hear.....

FYI... the 250 and the 350 are both doing about 7000 rpm @ 100k's, the Big was doing about 3800 at the same speed. So your little machine is workin pretty hard :blink:

The TT with my adv gearing is doing 5,600@100kph and the DR is doing 4,300@100kph.
First gear on both would get them to about the same places.

[warewolf]

FYI... the 250 and the 350 are both doing about 7000 rpm @ 100k's, the Big was doing about 3800 at the same speed. So your little machine is workin pretty hard :blink:Might be spinning faster, but do the maths on the stresses on the mass of the 250cc piston @ 7000 vs the 750/800cc piston @ 3800. Ditto the valves on the tiddler vs the big beastie.

[warewolf]

the DR is doing 4,300@100kph.The 640 in adv trim is about 5000rpm at 110km/h, which is still closer to idle than redline.

[clint640]

It's going to get a new piston, rings and gaskets soon...

That'll probably see it through another 50K. It'd be interesting to see what the piston looks like, ring gaps etc. I hope Mrs Devil has been having some fun on it :yes:

Cheers
Clint

[Devil]

It has definately improved her confidence with regards to only needing one foot on the ground (she's 5'0").
Cant help but think poor little bike when you take it up to highway speeds though!
BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ADVGD]

Picked up my motor this arvo with a new, well, pretty much everything. Having withdrawal symptoms from not riding so got straight into putting her back together this evening.

Here is culprit of the evil noise, not so flash eh...
http://www.adventureguide.co.nz/public-images/adventure-riding/drz250-run-big-end.jpg

[motor_mayhem]

Can you upgrade to a 400 or 450? I reckon that would make a fair amount of difference with the amount of load you're putting on it.

[alane]

Rosie's 250 Sherpa was still purring at 50K km when she sold it. It was starting to smoke a little when cold though. It hadn't been thrashed offroad but certainly saw a lot of gravel, & it did 1000's of km on the throttle stop on road.

Cheers
Clint

Somewhere I remember reading the Super Sherpa has a super light piston,could be just sales talk,but then,if true,would be a big plus when in a "highrev" situation.
My two older Stockman/Sherpa,s have had a hard time on the farm.Though ,not reved high,overheating quite a bit ,at times,in summer.Neither of them use much oil.:2thumbsup.
Also---If the exhaust is not derestricted,it probably acts as a govener.
It,s a different beast ,in my book,with a little "operation":woohoo:

[That looks like fun]

Did the shop give you a reason for the failure? Thats an extremly precise (and unusual) end to the wear pattern :blink:

[clint640]

Did the shop give you a reason for the failure? Thats an extremly precise (and unusual) end to the wear pattern :blink:

My 640 rod was the same, at a good whack more km's though:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7003/imgp4461t.jpg

It's the part of the race that does all the work of turning the bang into wheelspin.

Cheers
Clint

[ADVGD]

My 640 rod was the same, at a good whack more km's though:
It's the part of the race that does all the work of turning the bang into wheelspin.

Cheers
Clint

KTM or DRZ rod, whichever, it ain't a pretty sight eh clint :(


Can you upgrade to a 400 or 450? I reckon that would make a fair amount of difference with the amount of load you're putting on it.

2 more weeks for the full license and I'll be on a shiny new DRZ400, can't wait!


Did the shop give you a reason for the failure?
That's a bit of a touchy subject, the mechanic (one I will never use again) dropped the ball big time. On three occasions I took the bike back saying I am concerned with a noise that is increasing in volume. On the first occasion the bike was stripped and inspected, but they reported that nothing was wrong, everything was within spec and acceptable tolerances and it was just running "noisy".

On the two other occasions I took it back he said "naa that's ok, it has been checked out, just keep riding it, it'll be fine".

I was totally unhappy with this diagnosis, happy motors don't make strange whirring and knocking noises, something had to be wrong or the noise simply would not be present. I decided to get a second opinion and took it straight to Phil Parish (PPM), within 10 seconds of listening to it he said, "I'd put money on it is the big end", sure enough when it was pulled down, it was. WTF, Phil has the bike for 10 seconds and nails it, the other mechanic has the bike on three occasions, strips it down even, still can't diagnose it, and tells me to continue riding it knowing full well I go to some pretty remote places that would inevitably mean big trouble if it failed. To be blunt, that's just piss-poor.

So, on that note I could not recommend Phil Parish enough, he is a superb mechanic with an astonishing wealth of first hand knowledge, highly respected and accredited in the competition circles, very fast turnaround times, great hourly rate, and a great bloke to have a chin wag with. I know who I'll be using in the future and would recommend him to anyone looking for a top level motorcycle mechanic.

[clint640]

KTM or DRZ rod, whichever, it ain't a pretty sight eh clint :(
.

Nope, but one can retain much more of a sense of humour about it at 95K km on a 'high maintenance high performance euro bike' than 27K km on an 'indestructable jap 250' :yes:

Clint

[Frodo]

ADVGD

What oil were you using and what mileage between changes? (No, I don't want another oil thread!).
Did you spend quite a bit of time pootling / plodding along at low revs?

[ADVGD]

ADVGD

What oil were you using and what mileage between changes? (No, I don't want another oil thread!).
Did you spend quite a bit of time pootling / plodding along at low revs?

With previously being an engine reconditioner and seeing first hand the damage done by lack of oil changes, I'm very conscientious regarding intervals. Factory recommendations is 6000km but I do it every 4000km and use a quality oil (Elf semi-synthetic)

As for the plodding along, I understand exactly where you are going regarding the premature wear this can cause to big ends and/or chatter damage to gearboxes. Even being aware of this, to be honest, this could be a factor to at least some degree. For typical off road adventure riding I certainly don't labour the engine or ride at exceptionally low revs, but nor do I ride predominantly in the upper rev range where some say 250s should be ridden. In saying that, different terrain calls for different riding styles and this changes all the time, hill climbs at a typical example certainly sees a lot more revs. When exploring new places though I often just tick along enjoying the scenery, to be honest I feel comfortable I am not in a low enough rev range that would be causing any harm but then again my thoughts on an acceptable rev range may be slightly too low and overlapping a rev range the big end doesn't agree with...

To be on the safe side, best I stick to 14,000 RPM everywhere I go :p

[thepom]

I agree with you about Phil,outstanding bloke.....and I ve seen the way you ride and that bike should not have blown up....well looked after and well serviced....

[Padmei]

2 more weeks for the full license and I'll be on a shiny new DRZ400, can't wait!

.

Are you really buying brand new?

[NordieBoy]

To be on the safe side, best I stick to 14,000 RPM everywhere I go :p

I'm building an adventure bike like that.

[ADVGD]

Are you really buying brand new?

Yeah, for peace of mind. The plan for the 400 is to explore every corner, nook and cranny of the South Island possible so really want to have the reassurance that the motor is fresh with the ability to reliably handle as many K's as possible.

The crazy thing is, I have spent over $5,000 fixing up the box and rebuild in the last 2 months, that's effectively half a brand new DRZ400 <_<

Will be hitting you boys up soon, hopefully the Nelson crew are open to a Christchurch KB'er tagging along on some of your adventures :)

[NordieBoy]

Will be hitting you boys up soon, hopefully the Nelson crew are open to a Christchurch KB'er tagging along on some of your adventures :)

Dunno. He'll have to carry the coffee machine.
The newbs always carry the coffee machine.

[Woodman]

Dunno. He'll have to carry the coffee machine.
The newbs always carry the coffee machine.

And we will call you Dave until we learn your proper name.

[ADVGD]

Dunno. He'll have to carry the coffee machine.
The newbs always carry the coffee machine.

I have just purchased this fine set of wheels, currently fitting a motor and a set of knobblies, hopefully this will satisfy the requirements for me to join one of your rides

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3189/2767442977_355902d74f.jpg

Will be in touch once complete

All the best

Dave

[Willdat?]

Oh, and that's a third thing, you have to be willing for every other member of the group to thrash the living daylights out of it, I'd advise some extra cable ties on the coffee machine...

[NordieBoy]

Will be in touch once complete

All the best

Dave

Doesn't need the till so that'll save some weight.

[Monstaman]

I have just purchased this fine set of wheels,

That is a waste of money and no good for adv riding .. it only has drum brakes!

[Taz]

Dunno. He'll have to carry the coffee machine.
The newbs always carry the coffee machine.

I was wondering why that KLR I was loaned while down there was so bloody heavy!!

[Padmei]

Umbrellas???? You're not riding that with us you homeo. Harden up FFS

[JATZ]

Also.... you can prolly ditch the umbrellas too

We don't do rain. :yes:

Otherwise, welcome Dave :wavey: I look forward to having a chai latte with you

[ADVGD]

Umbrellas???? You're not riding that with us you homeo. Harden up FFS


Also.... you can prolly ditch the umbrellas too

Umbrellas? What are you talking about? They are the dual external reverse induction air modulators from the vertical descent control system, this allows me to handle drop-offs up to 18 meters, I thought that's how you guys rolled up there?

[Willdat?]

Umbrellas???? You're not riding that with us you homeo. Harden up FFS

Comic Sans...who's the homeo? :shutup:

[Woodman]

Comic Sans...who's the homeo? :shutup:

That coming from a fontspotter?????

[Willdat?]

That coming from a fontspotter?????

:facepalm:

[NordieBoy]

No trains. A spotters gotta do what a spotters gotta do.