Uber simple HUD reminder thingy

[bogan]

As per imdying's idea from this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/134516-Awesome-mod-potential-product?p=1129987463#post1129987463) thread.

Simple little circuit to notify the rider when the indicator has been left on etc. Tiny circuit gets stuck inside the helmet on the chin bit and has a few LEDs that'll be just at the bottom of your visor, runs off a button cell and has some sort of on-off switch. Small circuit to attach to the bikes loom, possibly designed with splice connectors so you just hook it in and zip tie it to the loom itself for ease of installation.

Price probably $50-100 depending on functionality requirements (gimme your opinion on the requirements).

[blackdog]

I'd like four LED's (top, bottom, left and right) corresponding with n,s,e,w flashing with increasing frequency as a patrol car gets closer ( vice versa as it gets further away) please.

LED's not required if ya can just design something that scrambles all their radar/laser equipment.

[lone_slayer]

I would be happy if the indicator turned itself off after a set time? sounds simple dont it!

[steve_t]

I'd like four LED's (top, bottom, left and right) corresponding with n,s,e,w flashing with increasing frequency as a patrol car gets closer ( vice versa as it gets further away) please.

LED's not required if ya can just design something that scrambles all there radar/laser equipment.

How about just a HARD receiver that has an auto-off function and doesn't chew thru the batteries as fast.


I would be happy if the indicator turned itself off after a set time? sounds simple dont it!

Simple yet effective!

[javawocky]

I am well in the habit of turning it off myself. I even have OCD - periodically push the reset switch even when I know its off.

However, I think a volumn ramp buzzer which comes on after 10 seconds getting louder would be useful. I don't want to worry about another battery or distraction in my helmet.

[imdying]

No data signal turns it off perhaps?

Something like one of these items for the transcievers?
http://www.sparkfun.com/categories/79

Got a meeting...

[avgas]

Small circuit to attach to the bikes loom
Can I just say NO?

Its so much easier than explaining why

[avgas]

No data signal turns it off perhaps?

Something like one of these items for the transcievers?
http://www.sparkfun.com/categories/79

Got a meeting...
yes

yes
(cool website btw)

[javawocky]

No data signal turns it off perhaps?

Something like one of these items for the transcievers?
http://www.sparkfun.com/categories/79

Got a meeting...

NOOOOO!!!! I am trying to get work done and you are sending us cool links like that! Going to be gone for at least 20mins poking around there - THANKS!!

[scumdog]

Why are they not like those stone-aged Harleys?

Their indicator self-cancel on a time/movement basis.

[imdying]

Go and read the other thread before posting, the what isn't even half of the point. For all I care you can have a HD radar on the front of the bike and use the light to tell you when YAHDRW is coming so you know when to wave :rolleyes:

[scumdog]

Go and read the other thread before posting, the what isn't even half of the point. For all I care you can have a HD radar on the front of the bike and use the light to tell you when YAHDRW is coming so you know when to wave :rolleyes:

Grinch...:blink:

[NinjaNanna]

it would depend on battery life and what sort of casing it goes into for me.

[onearmedbandit]

YAHDRW is coming so you know when to wave :rolleyes:

Knowing you, I'm guessing that's 'Yet Another Harley Davidson Riding Wanker'?

[bogan]

I would be happy if the indicator turned itself off after a set time? sounds simple dont it!

is simple too, but what time would you set it for?


Can I just say NO?

Its so much easier than explaining why

Easier yes, helpful, no!


NOOOOO!!!! I am trying to get work done and you are sending us cool links like that! Going to be gone for at least 20mins poking around there - THANKS!!

you got off lightly then, I spent over 400 bucks there a few weeks ago!


it would depend on battery life and what sort of casing it goes into for me.

helmet bit should be size of a small usb flash drive, just 3M whatsit it to the chin bit.

[steve_t]

is simple too, but what time would you set it for?



Would making it user adjustable be much more work? I'd probably say 8-10 seconds would be about right but 5-20 would be a good range if it was adjustable :drinkup:

[bogan]

Would making it user adjustable be much more work? I'd probably say 8-10 seconds would be about right but 5-20 would be a good range if it was adjustable :drinkup:

actually, I've changed my mind, it's not even simple, most bikes would probably need a new switch put in, and would be different size for most of them.

[Gremlin]

I would be happy if the indicator turned itself off after a set time? sounds simple dont it!
its fucken annoying... my BMW does it approx 10sec or 200m... its actually easy to need to indicate for more than 200m, then I find I'm not indicating any more. :facepalm:

Going to ask the shop next week if they can disable the function. I learnt to ride bikes turning off my own indicator...

[bogan]

Done some searching for components, can't find any that do exactly what is needed, so will probably go with a cheap general purpose transceiver and microcontroller at each end. Bit of an ass having to program up a micro just to turn of and on some lights (hopefully can get a ZIF connector to program so no extra space needed on the boards), but will mean you can have heaps of LEDs! and offers power saving advantages by going to sleep for 99% of the time.

[Ocean1]

power saving advantages by going to sleep for 99% of the time.

Works for me. :yawn:

[NinjaNanna]

still watching with interest

[Bounce001]

So is it something like this you are after:

http://www.fastbikegear.co.nz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66&products_id=607

[bogan]

So is it something like this you are after:

http://www.fastbikegear.co.nz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66&products_id=607

sort of, but better.

[Sable]

Seems like way too much hassle to me. How about looking at your instruments every once in a while?

[jonbuoy]

So is it something like this you are after:

http://www.fastbikegear.co.nz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66&products_id=607

Not exactly cutting edge - I removed a similar factory fitted device off my 77´CB750. I don´t have a problem remembering indicators but a HUD for speedo and or tacho could be a winner.

[R-Soul]

I have the inidcator buzzer on my bike. But the bike is too loud, so I cant hear it anyway, and the thing needs some sort of RF/bluetooth signal to a buzzer mounted on/in the helmet. Maybe even an interefrence signal that interferes with my tunes?

[imdying]

Still interested big time, just a little distracted at the moment.

[bogan]

So, functions required? with micros at both ends it should be fairly easy to ram plenty of functionality in there.
One thing I thought of was startup pairing them, so the receiver and transmitter pair up every time the ignition is turned on, saves pairing them from factory or adding channel selectors.
Should be able to at least 4 LEDs on there, red yellow green blue, easy to put a selector switch on the bike unit if it would be beneficial to be able to choose 4 out of 8 options or similar.

[jonbuoy]

Red for shift light, green for indicators, yellow for top gear?

[crash99]

I would be happy if the indicator turned itself off after a set time? sounds simple dont it!
Hmm, I had a mid '80s XJ650 Yammie that did that - is that what we call progress . . . :gob:

[crash99]

Red for shift light, green for indicators, yellow for top gear?
Now THAT's a good idea! :yes:

[Reckless]

Red for shift light, green for indicators, yellow for top gear?

If you wanna to get really flash you could have six shift lights, one for each gear your in!! LOL!!



Oh Btw my ole 78 Z1R has self canceling indicators I spent so many years on it I can't bloody remember to turn mine off on the modern bike!! DUH!!
Dunno how they work but they work really well too, time delay when stationary and moving.

[bogan]

Red for shift light, green for indicators, yellow for top gear?

I'd stay with yellow for indicators (cos it's yellow anyway), and not sure how difficult it is to find out whether you're in top gear if it doesn't have that from factory... shift light should be doable though, and that light could be multifunction with the oil warning light too.

[jonbuoy]

I'd stay with yellow for indicators (cos it's yellow anyway), and not sure how difficult it is to find out whether you're in top gear if it doesn't have that from factory... shift light should be doable though, and that light could be multifunction with the oil warning light too.

I think the aftermarket gear indicators use a feed from the tacho and speedo to calculate the gear the bikes in.

[Ocean1]

not sure how difficult it is to find out whether you're in top gear if it doesn't have that from factory...


I think the aftermarket gear indicators use a feed from the tacho and speedo to calculate the gear the bikes in.

Yup, on most FI bikes the transducders are already there. Bet they've all got the same flavour output too.


shift light should be doable though, and that light could be multifunction with the oil warning light too.

Oil pressure needs a signal more likely to get your attention and get the engine shut down immediately. It's a stand-alone output anyway, I think it justifies a seperate remote channel.

[Aristocat]

I'm very keen investigating these options. My primary requirement is radar notification; currently I have a Bluetooth transmitter connected to the 3.5 output of the radar detector, and a Bluetooth receiver in my helmet with a 3.5 headphone socket, and some headphones plugged in which are permanently mounted in my helmet. I have my detector set to only detect Ka, so I don't necessarily need to differentiate between different sounds - i.e. one notification light would be sufficient, so long as it was noticeable enough. Reason I say this is your solution might not be capable of transmitting sound?

The Bluetooth transmitter and receiver batteries are rechargeable via USB. They last OK, but not a full long ride, so if I could get better life I'd be happy. Don't care if they're not rechargeable; or if I have to carry a pocket full of spares; just don't want it going flat during riding. Ideally the transmitter would be powered from the bike's 12v. The detector is currently a Beltronics 945.

Secondary requirement: The idea of notifying me about indicators is great; I'm also OCD about pressing the button all the time around town in case I left them on. Don't care about a delay; just something to say they're on is good enough.

If you can provide me with a solution then I'm happy to pay for it; and know of a few others that would as well.

[bogan]

I think this is a great idea, don't think it would add much complexity. No extra drain on the helmet unit except when the LED comes on, and the transmitter unit / sound detector would run from the bikes 12v supply so no worries there. May be possible to distinguish between different sounds if they are pretty standard across all radar units, otherwise I don't think it'd be worth it. Standard circuit board, standard code, but slighty user configurable is the way to go here I reckon.

[CookMySock]

How to cancel a running indicator? The switch is mechanical and requires a firm push-off from the operator.

It wouldn't be hard to have a picaxxe or similar monitor the clutch and neutral switches and figure out if the bike is moving, stationary in neutral, stationary with clutch in, and decide how to handle each situation.

I'd be keen to replace the entire indicator system with a controller and super-bright LED strobe indicators. The controller can PWM-dim the strobes...cough I mean indicators, when in "normal" use, and then go full-brightness and use a really obnoxious strobe pattern for when the situation, er, requires it. The system would be WOFable but really useful in GTFOTW mode. :devil2:

[bogan]

Batteries for the helmet unit are proving difficult, was hoping to use a lithium coin cell, but the max discharge rate of 0.2mA is a bit far from the ideal 20mA. Any ideas? don't really want to go up to a AAA size...

[jonbuoy]

Batteries for the helmet unit are proving difficult, was hoping to use a lithium coin cell, but the max discharge rate of 0.2mA is a bit far from the ideal 20mA. Any ideas? don't really want to go up to a AAA size...

Rechargables? Could have a socket to recharge/power on the move - really not sure why Shoei/Arai haven´t teamed up with a bike manufacturer to come up with something like this - would be easier if you had a compartment to fit it all in, needs to be dimable for night time use as well - either auto/manual dimming.

[bogan]

Rechargables? Could have a socket to recharge/power on the move - really not sure why Shoei/Arai haven´t teamed up with a bike manufacturer to come up with something like this - would be easier if you had a compartment to fit it all in, needs to be dimable for night time use as well - either auto/manual dimming.

starts to get a bit on the bigger side if i go rechargeable, or small enough but needing recharging every day or two. Found some zinc air coin cells which may do the job, need three and it pushes the price up a few bucks, but coin cells mean I should be able to get away with a molded plastic coating, rather than a proper case, so still cheaper than AAA in the long run. Thanks for the dimming tip, good plan.

[jonbuoy]

Would say Lipo as they come in some small and flexible sizes you could tuck in the lining, but you don´t really want to have a charging or short circuit fault with a Lipo tucked against your cheek. :shit: If you can get the current consumption low enough you could go rechargeable coin cells and a flexible solar panel on the helmet to keep them topped up, you would be pulling the most current when the LEDS are flashing which won´t be often in the cycle.

[bogan]

drew up a pcb for the reciever, about 30x60x7mm, bout half of it is batteries, included an on-off switch to save power too.

For the transmitter side I'm thinking

red=shift light (rpm adjustment by a trimpot, either trim and use a multimeter to set, or trim while revving the snot out of it)
yellow=indicator warning
blue=noise on 3.5mm jack detected, for radar scanners etc
green=general purpose

and have a second input for all of them too, so 2 active high and 2 active low, so if you don't want a shift light, you can wire in a oil warning light, you could wire in both anyway and figure out that if it wants you to shift at idle, it may be an oil issue!

[BMWST?]

Red for shift light, green for indicators, yellow for top gear?

green for neutral i think

[bogan]

green for neutral i think

don't really think neutral is needed, i can understand forgetting indicators are on, but not noticing you're in neutral is a bit special :facepalm: also, all the lights are sposed to be more warning lights, then often on ones, get way better battery life that way.

[CookMySock]

Cellphone replacement LiPo and LiIon batts are cheap on trademe.

[bogan]

Cellphone replacement LiPo and LiIon batts are cheap on trademe.

yeh but they have that annoying exploding failure mode, it may be highly unlikely, but the thing is right next to your face, in a confined space!

[Aristocat]

Likelihood = low. Battery life = entire days riding. I'll take that risk.

[notme]

Just noticed this one.....

So where's the development at? Sounds like some might want all the bells and whistles, but to get a simple wireless LED that is triggered from "whatever" should be pretty quick and easy.

As with any development, getting something basic that works is much better than something with countless features that *almost* works! :yes:

Got any hardware running yet? I've been thinking for a while that a general purpose LED that mirrors some input signal could be a useful test tool...

[bogan]

Just noticed this one.....

So where's the development at? Sounds like some might want all the bells and whistles, but to get a simple wireless LED that is triggered from "whatever" should be pretty quick and easy.

As with any development, getting something basic that works is much better than something with countless features that *almost* works! :yes:

Got any hardware running yet? I've been thinking for a while that a general purpose LED that mirrors some input signal could be a useful test tool...

Got some pcbs to pick up tomorrow, then solder some shit up, program the fuck out of it, and good to go :D

With the hardware chosen it doesn't make much difference to do one with/without bells and whistles, so figure may as well go for fancy.

[notme]

All very interesting.....I'm bored today you see, so was looking at the cheapest/simplest way to achieve something like this.
Might just have to surf for solutions for a while :-)

[DR650gary]

This looks appealing to me. The constant flashing would give the game away.

http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?p=707085

Had an incident this weekend due to leaving my left turn signal on. Driver cut across in front of me and then started to abuse me after I slid to a stop. May have gone a bit further but I am not a shrinking violet so after a brief exchange they jumped back into the ute and left rapidly.

Pisses me off a bit as my 1982 Honda Sabre and 1978 XS 750 both had self cancelling indicators.

The above is probably the way I would go as the rear of the pods are visible on the TDM from the riding position.

[rapid van cleef]

id like somthing like a the hud for radar detector. i currently have a headphone from the output to my helmet into 1 ear but the wind is always pulling at it and keep having to adjust it. very annoying. tried tank mount and it does the same. the detector is mounted in my tank bag and works fine.

any ideas?

[bogan]

This looks appealing to me. The constant flashing would give the game away.

http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?p=707085

Had an incident this weekend due to leaving my left turn signal on. Driver cut across in front of me and then started to abuse me after I slid to a stop. May have gone a bit further but I am not a shrinking violet so after a brief exchange they jumped back into the ute and left rapidly.

Pisses me off a bit as my 1982 Honda Sabre and 1978 XS 750 both had self cancelling indicators.

The above is probably the way I would go as the rear of the pods are visible on the TDM from the riding position.

I like the simplicity of that solution :yes:


id like somthing like a the hud for radar detector. i currently have a headphone from the output to my helmet into 1 ear but the wind is always pulling at it and keep having to adjust it. very annoying. tried tank mount and it does the same. the detector is mounted in my tank bag and works fine.

any ideas?

yeh, this one! just gimme a few months...

[rapid van cleef]

cool. leds that i can mount on the undersaide of screen that respond to an audio/ line level signal from a headphone output. thats what id like. wirelss mount for my lid would be even cooler!

[DrunkenMistake]

You know what would be fucking awesome?, some kind of speed indicator inside the helmet or in a corner of the visor or something like that where it wouldn't be distracting, but it would be visible, I dont really look at my dials that often and find when I do im doing about 50km over the speed limit,
Iv never had a problem with indicators, I get into a habbit of checking they are off after leaving an intersection.
That and some kind of warning l.e.d that blinks faster when you get closer to the plod hiding in the bushes shagging his donut with a radar gun.

[rapid van cleef]

oh yeah, a hud speedo!

[DrunkenMistake]

oh yeah, a hud speedo!

HUD speedo and maybe a shift light indicator would be fantastic, I would pay for it. So long as it wasnt bulky or in the way, would have to me wireless from the bike, but you could run it on some kind of battery, so you plug your helmet in at home to recharge it or whatever, a lithium ion battery would do the trick but, they have a tendency to go boom with heat..

[bogan]

To me, speed and shifting are things you should be able to notice from the noise and movement. Not really something you need reminders for, although I have included a bit of circuitry for a shift light, mainly cos I need to put it in a different circuit soon anyway.

[notme]

Are there actually 2 requirements being asked for here?

Note the thread title - shift lights, speed, oil pressure etc seem to me to be getting a bit away from "uber simple".

So requirement one would be the simple, cheap version:
I'd be thinking a simple 2 wire install transmitter, 1 warning LED at helmet end and the idea being that whatever the trigger source(s) are, you need to look at the dash and find the cause. Should be able to sense 12-ish volts from indicators or 1-ish from radar detector headphone jack, and you should be able to have multiple inputs any of which trigger it.

Requirement 2 would be the complex, expensive version:

Full HUD, battery or bike powered transmitter, lots of user settable options, make you toast in the morning. For what is being asked for and for what it would cost to cover development costs, why wouldn't you just buy a commercial one? http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/SportVue.htm

Don't get me wrong, this is a great idea and an interesting development, but if it gets too much towards the complex end, will it end up costing more than people are prepared to pay, not having the polish of a commercial unit, take long enough to develop that people lose interest, etc?

Of course, if the answer is that it's an interesting project to do for nothing more than your own learning, then all bets are off! I've done some very weird projects in the past for no reason other than it was interesting :bleh:

[bogan]

I did go down that path to start with, but the transceivers pretty much govern the whole setup. It's cheaper, simpler and more compact (from what I could find) to have a managed wireless data transfer than it is to transmit a single pin state. That's including microcontrollers at each end too. So all that is needed for the rest, are a few simple components and connectors. Seems simpler to chuck it all in there now rather than make two versions with pretty much the same production cost.

[DrunkenMistake]

Full HUD, battery or bike powered transmitter, lots of user settable options, make you toast in the morning. For what is being asked for and for what it would cost to cover development costs, why wouldn't you just buy a commercial one? http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/SportVue.htm



Link to a place that sells them?.

[notme]

Link to a place that sells them?.

www.google.com ?

One of the first hits is a UK place - http://www.ccbiketech.com/sportvue.asp

No obvious NZ distributors, but then again I spent all of 10 seconds looking.

This did turn up though - http://www.reconinstruments.com/ looks good for off road bikes.

[imdying]

The Sportvue is shite by all accounts, otherwise I'd already had one. I'm thinking something about the size of a boot toe slider that mounts to the bottom of the visor. Happy to make a casing in that size/shape.

[notme]

The Sportvue is shite by all accounts, otherwise I'd already had one. I'm thinking something about the size of a boot toe slider that mounts to the bottom of the visor. Happy to make a casing in that size/shape.

One particular offering's performance is moot - the point is that there are integrated bluetooth helmets, radar detector wireless helmet displays, HUD systems etc all available commercially.

What seems to be missing is a good simple (uber simple in fact) general purpose warning indicator that people can add to thier bikes very simply (couple of wires) to get an in helmet indication that radar/indicators/highbeam/whatthehelleveryoulike needs your attention.

Feature bloat is the killer of many developments....

imdying, do you have the wherewithall to mould plastic cases? what technology? if I were developing this thing, to be honest the casing would be the biggest hurdle! Off the top of my head the nearest easily commercially available case I can think of is something like this (has battery holder, is a nice small rounded shape, will fit in a helmet easily): http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=HB5605&CATID=5&form=CAT&SUBCATID=644

[bogan]

One particular offering's performance is moot - the point is that there are integrated bluetooth helmets, radar detector wireless helmet displays, HUD systems etc all available commercially.

What seems to be missing is a good simple (uber simple in fact) general purpose warning indicator that people can add to thier bikes very simply (couple of wires) to get an in helmet indication that radar/indicators/highbeam/whatthehelleveryoulike needs your attention.

Feature bloat is the killer of many developments....

imdying, do you have the wherewithall to mould plastic cases? what technology? if I were developing this thing, to be honest the casing would be the biggest hurdle! Off the top of my head the nearest easily commercially available case I can think of is something like this (has battery holder, is a nice small rounded shape, will fit in a helmet easily): http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=HB5605&CATID=5&form=CAT&SUBCATID=644

You can avoid feature bloat by not plugging the other bits in, as the production cost difference will be less than $5 it seems foolish not to add them.

I was wondering about making the case (for the helmet end) by just covering the circuit (I think it's about 60x30x5mm) with epoxy and leaving slots to push the batteries (button cells) in from the sides, as a plastic case will make the part significantly more bulky. And use a more general purpose plastic case for the bike unit.

[JimO]

I would be happy if the indicator turned itself off after a set time? sounds simple dont it!

i cant be arsed reading the whole thread but my 1979 kawasaki Z1r had self cancelling indicators, so why dont all bikes have them now??

[imdying]

the point is that there are integrated bluetooth helmets, radar detector wireless helmet displays, HUD systems etc all available commercially.Well that's the thing, they're not... well, they were, but everyone that bought/tested one, that I could find, found they were shite... back to square one.


What seems to be missing is a good simple (uber simple in fact) general purpose warning indicator that people can add to thier bikes very simply (couple of wires) to get an in helmet indication that radar/indicators/highbeam/whatthehelleveryoulike needs your attention.

Feature bloat is the killer of many developments....Increasing the functionality in this case isn't a problem... it's virtually the same amount of work to carry say 10 bytes of data in a pack as it is to carry 2 bits worth, or are you not getting how bogan is explaining it? In laymans terms, think of it like this:
- Interface to bike, 20% of the work
- Carrying data across a wifi link, 50% of the work
- Receiver on helmet, 30% of the work

Increasing the data capacity of his packets amounts to 0.01% more work on the wifi link portion, so yes more work, but insignicantly so, so no good reason to neuter it.


imdying, do you have the wherewithall to mould plastic cases? what technology?Can't see any reason to get any more complicated than GRP. It just needs to be about the size of a toe slider, to hold a AAA rechargable (assuming it has the mAh for a 4-6 hours use, 2 in a day isn't a biggy), a transceiver, and a row of leds. Butting up against the visor outer face like that will let us use lower output LEDs.

[imdying]

I was wondering about making the case (for the helmet end) by just covering the circuit (I think it's about 60x30x5mm) with epoxy and leaving slots to push the batteries (button cells) in from the sides, as a plastic case will make the part significantly more bulky. And use a more general purpose plastic case for the bike unit.I like that idea, leave the GRP cover on the outside as weather protection for the batteries. Case on the bike I don't care, it's under the seat somewhere. Sealed is always good, although you could fill that with epoxy too.


i cant be arsed reading the whole thread but my 1979 kawasaki Z1r had self cancelling indicators, so why dont all bikes have them now??Cause they're unreliable shite that've killed as many riders as they were supposed to save.

[notme]

Well that's the thing, they're not... well, they were, but everyone that bought/tested one, that I could find, found they were shite... back to square one.

Maybe true for the SportVue HUD, but there are bluetooth enabled helmets out there from more than a couple of manufacturers, plus add on BT kits, and there are radar detectors that have an optional wireless LED add on, as well as the general purpose HARD radar detector notification system. Point being, there are commercial in-helmet warning systems out there, so this one has to be better/cheaper/more features/have racing stripes to make people want it over the others.



Increasing the functionality in this case isn't a problem... it's virtually the same amount of work to carry say 10 bytes of data ......

Assuming there is a brain at each end....and the hardware at each end to support extra functionality i.e. if at some time in the future you might allow 10 different inputs, do you have 10 spare pins on the microcontroller? Do you want to PAY for 10 spare pins? Do you bring out lots of wires and have installation instructions that say "connect these wires for this setup, these ones for that setup" etc?

I still say it looks like there is a market for a very simple, inexpensive system that wirelessly lights an LED in your helmet when *something* happens on the bike, i.e. radar, indicators, whatever.

My definition of simple is no user configuration, simple 2 wire install, one way communication i.e. bike to helmet, and no microcontrollers. This should be doable for < $10 build in small qty, meaning retail is something like $30. That's in a nice injection moulded case. If a small and simple micro, and or two way comms can be fitted in without going much over that then it obviously doesn't hurt, but really what's the point?

I think what's being discussed here is a far more full featured unit, which to me sounds like time to develop it and $$$$ to buy it - and then you are competing against full on electronics companies with a fair bit more resource to call on.... no one seems to have something out there that is at the inexpensive and simple end of things, so why not jump on that?

Who knows, it could end up built in to the next generation of shoei helmets :-)

Despite the other things I am meant to be doing, this idea keeps lighting my neurons - if bogan doesn't mind, I might start seriously researching this el cheapo method of doing the original task (radar/indicator/whatever warning via wireless LED).

[bogan]

Assuming there is a brain at each end....and the hardware at each end to support extra functionality i.e. if at some time in the future you might allow 10 different inputs, do you have 10 spare pins on the microcontroller? Do you want to PAY for 10 spare pins? Do you bring out lots of wires and have installation instructions that say "connect these wires for this setup, these ones for that setup" etc?

I see you're familiar with the notion of design quality :niceone: the current design has 8 input lines, and you just plug in what you want to each, and the unit figures out what is plugged in. Some line will then share and LED, for example you can have the shift light double as an oil light. However I can't see myself even using the 4 leds worth.


I still say it looks like there is a market for a very simple, inexpensive system that wirelessly lights an LED in your helmet when *something* happens on the bike, i.e. radar, indicators, whatever.

My definition of simple is no user configuration, simple 2 wire install, one way communication i.e. bike to helmet, and no microcontrollers. This should be doable for < $10 build in small qty, meaning retail is something like $30. That's in a nice injection moulded case. If a small and simple micro, and or two way comms can be fitted in without going much over that then it obviously doesn't hurt, but really what's the point?

I think what's being discussed here is a far more full featured unit, which to me sounds like time to develop it and $$$$ to buy it - and then you are competing against full on electronics companies with a fair bit more resource to call on.... no one seems to have something out there that is at the inexpensive and simple end of things, so why not jump on that?

Who knows, it could end up built in to the next generation of shoei helmets :-)

Despite the other things I am meant to be doing, this idea keeps lighting my neurons - if bogan doesn't mind, I might start seriously researching this el cheapo method of doing the original task (radar/indicator/whatever warning via wireless LED).

Course I don't mind if you try the simple route, however I looked at that one first, but didn't manage to find anything cheaper, smaller, and use as little power as the combination I settled on, also these ones have adjustable range. Let me know if you want anything though, I'd be interested in seeing what I overlooked.

[imdying]

there are commercial in-helmet warning systems out thereCan you link me to a helmet mounted indicator light set that is wireless? No I don't want to change helmets, no I don't want the shite that is bluetooth.



Do you want to PAY for 10 spare pins?Yes, the increase in cost is insignificant, go look at micro controller pricing for yourself.


Do you bring out lots of wires and have installation instructions that say "connect these wires for this setup, these ones for that setup" etc?Of course not, I expect it to work by magic.


I still say it looks like there is a market for a very simple, inexpensive system that wirelessly lights an LED in your helmet when *something* happens on the bike, i.e. radar, indicators, whatever.There's always a market for more or less sophisticated options. As far as I'm concerned poor people can get fucked.


My definition of simple is no user configuration, simple 2 wire installRight, so we've got a switchable power and an earth... how's that gonna no that an indicator is on? Magic again?


one way communication i.e. bike to helmet, and no microcontrollers. This should be doable for < $10 build in small qty, meaning retail is something like $30. That's in a nice injection moulded case.Maybe in dream land where time isn't worth anything.



I think what's being discussed here is a far more full featured unit, which to me sounds like time to develop it and $$$$ to buy it - and then you are competing against full on electronics companies with a fair bit more resource to call on....I disagree, Healtech would've been F'd in the A long ago if there were the case.



Who knows, it could end up built in to the next generation of shoei helmets :-)Most definitely the ideal.


Despite the other things I am meant to be doing, this idea keeps lighting my neurons - if bogan doesn't mind, I might start seriously researching this el cheapo method of doing the original task (radar/indicator/whatever warning via wireless LED).Definitely, I'll buy one of each if you both produce something.

[notme]

You don't really do subtle do you...... :whocares:



Can you link me to a helmet mounted indicator light set that is wireless? No I don't want to change helmets, no I don't want the shite that is bluetooth.

http://www.comountainrider.com/motorcycle-radar-detectors/Whistler-Motorcycle-Radar-Detector.php

http://www.1stradardetectors.com/photo-jammers/speedcheetah-sti-wireless-alert/index.php

http://www.helmetheadcycle.com/product/9107/adaptiv-technologies-wireless-headset-for-tpx-radar-detector

http://www.1stradardetectors.com/laser-jammers/cheetah-m25-rider-laser-jammer/index.php

http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/12256484/Wireless_LED_Brake_Light_For_Motorcycle.html

I'm sure there's more, but I'm not surfing google all day. Suffice to say that there are options out there for wireless helmet notification, without changing helmet, and without BT. You might not be prepared to go for BT or a different helmet with this stuff built in, but for others that are there are even more possibilities.





....the increase in cost is insignificant, go look at micro controller pricing for yourself.


Quick check of one off retail web pricing:
ATTINY13V $ 2.50 (8 pin device) smallest device that could work for this
ATTINY2313 $3.89 (20 pin device) next size device up without going crazy

Around 50% more for the extra pins only - the other functionality is essentially the same. Adding needless cost to a commercial product would need some serious justification.



Do you bring out lots of wires and have installation instructions that say "connect these wires for this setup, these ones for that setup" etc?

Of course not, I expect it to work by magic.

Magic no, but would it be more appealing to have the instructions say that there is one signal wire, you can connect as many things as you want to that one input, and the LED goes off when any of them trip? Or have pages of instructions on what to connect where for various bikes and sensing options. Of course, it sounds like Bogan has some smarts in mind in that area, as far as multiple inputs auto sensing or similar but still, more wires = more support needed, more instructions, more to go wrong etc.


There's always a market for more or less sophisticated options. As far as I'm concerned poor people can get fucked.
There is indeed - which is why I'm being devil's advocate in this thread and asking questions. The best solution may well be 2 different products. One thing that would be a shitter though, is to spend time and money developing something very capable (and costly) when it turns out that people actually just wanted the simple version.

I know Bogan isn't seeing it as a chore or a job to do this, hell it's interesting just thinking about on paper it let alone doing it, but if the idea is to be the most use to the most people, you have to ask the questions like features vs cost and time to get it done!



Right, so we've got a switchable power and an earth... how's that gonna no that an indicator is on? Magic again?

This discussion is mostly more concept than technical detail, but short answer is - drop your assumption that the bike end is powered from the bike. Now you have 2 signal wires to sense stuff.


Maybe in dream land where time isn't worth anything.
Not sure what you mean - assembly time? The $10 cost includes assembly. I'm talking about automated assembly here, not putting them together in the garage.

Also, bear in mind that the longer it takes to develop the more you have to hike the sell price to recover the time spent on the design, the time you weren't in the market, etc. Of course those are all n/a if it's not a commercial design.



I disagree, Healtech would've been F'd in the A long ago if there were the case.

Dunno what you're on about here sorry!

In the end, part of the point of all of this is to stir up the thinking process - it started with this post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/134516-Awesome-mod-potential-product?p=1129985699#post1129985699)asking for a simple indicator reminder light - and that's what i started thinking about - just how simple (therefore cheap, reliable, quick to develop) can it be made?

If Bogan approaches it from the feature end and I approach from the low cost end, there's got to be squillions to be made all round, surely? ;-)

[imdying]

You don't really do subtle do you.I wanted an answer with specifics, it's only fair I make that clear?




http://www.comountainrider.com/motorcycle-radar-detectors/Whistler-Motorcycle-Radar-Detector.phpDoes not connect to indicators.

http://www.1stradardetectors.com/photo-jammers/speedcheetah-sti-wireless-alert/index.phpDoes not connect to indicators.

http://www.helmetheadcycle.com/product/9107/adaptiv-technologies-wireless-headset-for-tpx-radar-detectorDoes not connect to indicators.

http://www.1stradardetectors.com/laser-jammers/cheetah-m25-rider-laser-jammer/index.phpDoes not connect to indicators.



http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/12256484/Wireless_LED_Brake_Light_For_Motorcycle.htmlNow that's getting closer... one assumes you could nigger it into an indicator given enough fucking around, but I'm not sure I want that light strip in my vision :facepalm:


You probably shouldn't hassle my delivery if you can't deliver yourself. Apparently even if I make it quite clear,

Can you link me to a helmet mounted indicator light set that is wireless?
you still swing and miss. Fucking radar detector shit ignores how we came to this thread in the first place, which is primarily an indicator warning device that could be expanded further.





I'm sure there's more, but I'm not surfing google all day. Suffice to say that there are options out there for wireless helmet notification, without changing helmet, and without BT.Where, where are these fucking options you keep teasing me with. Either find something valid or fuck off, we're on to the red rep next :mad:



Quick check of one off retail web pricing:
ATTINY13V $ 2.50 (8 pin device) smallest device that could work for this
ATTINY2313 $3.89 (20 pin device) next size device up without going crazy

Around 50% more for the extra pins only50% increase in the cost of one component. That is not a 50% increase in cost for the device.

The rest I just deleted, it's a waste of my time. MAKE SOMETHING DAMN YOU.

[notme]

The "subtle" comment was referring to...well, just read your post above!

You come across as angry, arrogant, demanding and whiney - we're all just having a discussion here, no one else is giving themselves a stroke FFS!

As an example - I'm fully prepared to say whoops - I misread your question "Can you link me to a helmet mounted indicator light set that is wireless?" as meaning an "indicator" i.e. the indicator LED that will come on in your helmet to indicate to you that the radar has gone off. My bad, I admit it, easy as that.

However - that did get me thinking that there's no reason you couldn't modify a system that flashes an LED when it gets an audio signal (i.e. radar) so that it works off the indicators. Depends if the benefits of the cheapest product in those links i gave you plus some mods is worth the cost vs another solution which will be available in future.

As for the light strip - the obvious intention was that you use a small indicator LED in it's place or cut off all but one of the LEDs on the light strip or something like that.

See, the product you want is not yet available. You could get what you want by modding something that exists, or by waiting till exactly what you DO want comes about. You either want it bad enough to get out the number 8 wire, or you don't.

You're right - radar detector warning wasn't the original requirement, but as the discussion has progressed, it has been asked for, and so the solutions are valid for others that may be reading along.

Re the increase in micro cost - it's the either the costliest component or the second costliest in the design, so a 50% increase in it's price is a big deal.

"The rest I just deleted, it's a waste of my time. MAKE SOMETHING DAMN YOU."

Your loss - the rest of us are having a good discussion! Make something? Tell ya what, I might just make exaclty what you wanted in the first post - i.e. remote indicator reminder.

How much would you pay?
When do you want it done by?
What physical size are you happy with?
Are there extra features you're going to want, now that you are thinking about it?

hey....this seems suspiciously like what the thread is discussing! Maybe a poll or two is needed.

[imdying]

You come across as angry, arrogant, demanding and whineyCry me a river... what do you bloody expect when I'm saying I can't buy one, and you keep saying I can, but you can't deliver a link to one product that does that simple task. You do not appear to be somebody who delivers, therefore a waste of time. Bogan has already proven himself, thus the difference.

[jonbuoy]

You don't really do subtle do you...... :whocares:




http://www.comountainrider.com/motorcycle-radar-detectors/Whistler-Motorcycle-Radar-Detector.php

http://www.1stradardetectors.com/photo-jammers/speedcheetah-sti-wireless-alert/index.php

http://www.helmetheadcycle.com/product/9107/adaptiv-technologies-wireless-headset-for-tpx-radar-detector

http://www.1stradardetectors.com/laser-jammers/cheetah-m25-rider-laser-jammer/index.php

http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/12256484/Wireless_LED_Brake_Light_For_Motorcycle.html

I'm sure there's more, but I'm not surfing google all day. Suffice to say that there are options out there for wireless helmet notification, without changing helmet, and without BT. You might not be prepared to go for BT or a different helmet with this stuff built in, but for others that are there are even more possibilities.





Quick check of one off retail web pricing:
ATTINY13V $ 2.50 (8 pin device) smallest device that could work for this
ATTINY2313 $3.89 (20 pin device) next size device up without going crazy

Around 50% more for the extra pins only - the other functionality is essentially the same. Adding needless cost to a commercial product would need some serious justification.


Magic no, but would it be more appealing to have the instructions say that there is one signal wire, you can connect as many things as you want to that one input, and the LED goes off when any of them trip? Or have pages of instructions on what to connect where for various bikes and sensing options. Of course, it sounds like Bogan has some smarts in mind in that area, as far as multiple inputs auto sensing or similar but still, more wires = more support needed, more instructions, more to go wrong etc.


There is indeed - which is why I'm being devil's advocate in this thread and asking questions. The best solution may well be 2 different products. One thing that would be a shitter though, is to spend time and money developing something very capable (and costly) when it turns out that people actually just wanted the simple version.

I know Bogan isn't seeing it as a chore or a job to do this, hell it's interesting just thinking about on paper it let alone doing it, but if the idea is to be the most use to the most people, you have to ask the questions like features vs cost and time to get it done!


This discussion is mostly more concept than technical detail, but short answer is - drop your assumption that the bike end is powered from the bike. Now you have 2 signal wires to sense stuff.


Not sure what you mean - assembly time? The $10 cost includes assembly. I'm talking about automated assembly here, not putting them together in the garage.

Also, bear in mind that the longer it takes to develop the more you have to hike the sell price to recover the time spent on the design, the time you weren't in the market, etc. Of course those are all n/a if it's not a commercial design.


Dunno what you're on about here sorry!

In the end, part of the point of all of this is to stir up the thinking process - it started with this post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/134516-Awesome-mod-potential-product?p=1129985699#post1129985699)asking for a simple indicator reminder light - and that's what i started thinking about - just how simple (therefore cheap, reliable, quick to develop) can it be made?

If Bogan approaches it from the feature end and I approach from the low cost end, there's got to be squillions to be made all round, surely? ;-)

10$?? To make a fully functioning unit? Maybe if you set up in China churning out 100´s a day - but for a custom made item like this you would be lucky to sell a 100 units a year.

[notme]

10$?? To make a fully functioning unit? Maybe if you set up in China churning out 100´s a day - but for a custom made item like this you would be lucky to sell a 100 units a year.

I wasn't thinking as small as 100's per day....

Bear in mind this is for the simple version too. The one off cost, me buying the parts retail, for the most complicated simple version (if that makes sense) comes out at around $25-30.

If I were to build in qty's of around 250's that would drop to the above mentioned $10 or so.

However, at the other end of the scale, the simplest simple design (again, hoping that makes sense) I can think of is a matter of $6 or $7 in one off qty, and buggerall in bulk.

It all comes down to features, cost, development time. pick any 2.

EDIT: I think I just got it - you mean "for a hand made item like this", rather than for a "custom made item like this" correct? If that's the case, you're quite right - there's no way I'd be thinking that this could be hand built (at least in NZ) for that cost.

[jonbuoy]

100´s per day? Who is going to buy them? How many do you think you could sell even wordwide per week? I think its a good idea - but I probably wouldn´t buy one myself - do I want to hack into my wiring loom and start gluing bits onto my helmet no. It is a good idea for a home built project or for someone interested in building things like this, don´t even know how you would stand with CE/crash testing if you start making add ons to helmets.

[notme]

This post is a short version of what I just PM'd Bogan:

First prototype of the simple HUD:
(The 9v battery is just for scale)

237757237758

It works, it costs what I calculated it should (OK, it was 11.331% over in fact but pobody's nerfect) and it is only 24mm x 37mm x 7mm - easily fits in a helmet once in the case.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to continue this project in this form - but Bogan's project looks like it's going to be much more capable and suit a wider range of people, so keep this thread alive and keep him motivated to finish it :-)

[bogan]

Made a heap of progress on this over the weekend, got the main parts made up and tested. The transceiver chip is pretty wicked, SPI interface (though it'd run better with an interrupt too) PCB antenna the size of a fingernail, and good for around 60m, I'm running at 1.2kbps to make it easier on the micro, but they reckon its good for 256, just over 3 bucks each too. Prick of a thing to get running though.

Will look into power saving modes on it shortly...

[bogan]

Programed in some power savings, I've gone from 2.2 to 12.7 days continuous running; assuming no LEDs are on. For every LED that is on (assuming max brightness) it will use power at a 5.5x higher rate. It will run off 3 hearing aid button cells. After consulting with the comitee...

<img src="http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/this_is_inadequate_trollcat1.jpg" />

... I have decided to add some wires and see if heaps more savings can be gained :D

[imdying]

That life span is all good, so long as the batteries are accessible and cheap... maybe a AAA would do it?

[bogan]

That life span is all good, so long as the batteries are accessible and cheap... maybe a AAA would do it?

AAA is too big as I would need 2, maybe 3 of them. If I can get the sleep duty cycle up there enough with hardware interrupts I can probably stretch out the lifetime to hundreds of days. Which is getting into the region of doing away with the power switch on the receiver. Batteries are about 10 bucks to replace.

[NinjaNanna]

Will it flash on low battery? Hearing aid cells aren't something you can buy at the servo and being a lazy bugger I'm pretty sure I'd forget to replace the replacement batteries that should be under the seat.

[bogan]

Will it flash on low battery? Hearing aid cells aren't something you can buy at the servo and being a lazy bugger I'm pretty sure I'd forget to replace the replacement batteries that should be under the seat.

hadn't thought of that, will see what i can do

[NinjaNanna]

is the tx/rx 1 for 1 pairing? If not is the range good enough that if interfaced to a radar detector a 2nd bike bike could have a receiver as well?

[bogan]

is the tx/rx 1 for 1 pairing? If not is the range good enough that if interfaced to a radar detector a 2nd bike bike could have a receiver as well?

I'll be tuning the range to around 2m so other signals don't interfere. Could do a broadcast bike intercom or similar system in future where that sort of thing would be applicable.

[BigOne]

This looks appealing to me. The constant flashing would give the game away.

http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?p=707085

Had an incident this weekend due to leaving my left turn signal on. Driver cut across in front of me and then started to abuse me after I slid to a stop. May have gone a bit further but I am not a shrinking violet so after a brief exchange they jumped back into the ute and left rapidly.

Pisses me off a bit as my 1982 Honda Sabre and 1978 XS 750 both had self cancelling indicators.

The above is probably the way I would go as the rear of the pods are visible on the TDM from the riding position.
why not just buy something ready made??
search KISAN SIGNAL MINDER, they make a self-cancelling turn relay for almost every bike out there.
I have one on my GSX1400, and it's very good. Kisan make a whole range of clever electronics for bikes.

[avgas]

Sorry for asking the annoying question. But I tried reading and now I am tired.

But, In once sentence. What does it do?

e.g. wire in input contacts, little thing flash in helmet when contacts close.

[bogan]

Sorry for asking the annoying question. But I tried reading and now I am tired.

But, In once sentence. What does it do?

e.g. wire in input contacts, little thing flash in helmet when contacts close.

yup, thats the basics of it, also added special functions for audio, rpm, and a delay for the indicators (you don't need to know you just turned them on)

[imdying]

AAA is too big as I would need 2, maybe 3 of them. If I can get the sleep duty cycle up there enough with hardware interrupts I can probably stretch out the lifetime to hundreds of days. Which is getting into the region of doing away with the power switch on the receiver. Batteries are about 10 bucks to replace.How about the 12v cells that are used in garage door remotes, the A23 (http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&xhr=t&q=a23+battery&cp=5&pq=a23+cell&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1050&bih=1494&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi). Sure it's just a stack of cells, but maybe more convenient, especially to sort out a mount/holder for?

Size:
<img src="http://images.ookaboo.com/photo/s/A23_battery_s.jpg" />

[bogan]

How about the 12v cells that are used in garage door remotes, the A23 (http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&xhr=t&q=a23+battery&cp=5&pq=a23+cell&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1050&bih=1494&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi). Sure it's just a stack of cells, but maybe more convenient, especially to sort out a mount/holder for?

Size:
<img src="http://images.ookaboo.com/photo/s/A23_battery_s.jpg" />

yeh was thinking it may be better to stack them that way anyway, however, I need 3.6V, anything over is just wasted, and 25mA, the later I've found to be pretty rare in button cells.

[imdying]

yeh was thinking it may be better to stack them that way anyway, however, I need 3.6V, anything over is just wasted, and 25mA, the later I've found to be pretty rare in button cells.No worries, if anything else comes to mind I'll post it up.

[bogan]

Done some more testing tonight, found that the reg is whoring up the power, drawing 180uA through the ground pin, so will get rid of that somehow. I've got the rest of it sleeping at <2uA (but I'm unsure as to the accuracy of the multimeter, with some programming I think i can get it down to a 50uA or less average draw, giving a theoretical life of 562days for the batteries I got. However I did some more reading on zinc air and after they are unsealed their self discharge rate is pretty high and they only last a few weeks :facepalm:

So looking for better batteries, have to be 2.7V-3.8V (reg can fuck off if it's in range) capable of 25mA output, decent capacity (>500mAhr would be ideal), and as small as possible.

[jonbuoy]

Done some more testing tonight, found that the reg is whoring up the power, drawing 180uA through the ground pin, so will get rid of that somehow. I've got the rest of it sleeping at <2uA (but I'm unsure as to the accuracy of the multimeter, with some programming I think i can get it down to a 50uA or less average draw, giving a theoretical life of 562days for the batteries I got. However I did some more reading on zinc air and after they are unsealed their self discharge rate is pretty high and they only last a few weeks :facepalm:

So looking for better batteries, have to be 2.7V-3.8V (reg can fuck off if it's in range) capable of 25mA output, decent capacity (>500mAhr would be ideal), and as small as possible.

What about cannibalising a Nokia mobile phone battery, small Li Ion 3.6v 950mA.

[bogan]

What about cannibalising a Nokia mobile phone battery, small Li Ion 3.6v 950mA.

Bit on the big side, and then I'd have to sort out charging them etc, be alright for very low volume where you just just buy broken phones, but probably get a bit pricy for high volume. I'm thinking two vertical AAAs with a 15mm gap between for the circuit, gives me around 10mm helmet-face clearance on mine still, more if it's off to one side. You guys reckon that would be suitable?
Lithium ones should be good for a few years, or alkaline replacements could be used as well, anything 1.4V and higher, so no rechargeables.

[avgas]

Sorry for stating something that sounds a bit stupid, but why not make the battery pack external and run a power lead out.
Can always velcro some AA's (or any other batteries) to the back/bottom of a helmet.

[imdying]

I've got one of those waving cat things on my kitchen window shelf, it's solar powered... with such low current requirements, one of those any good?

[imdying]

I'm thinking two vertical AAAs with a 15mm gap between for the circuit, gives me around 10mm helmet-face clearance on mine still, more if it's off to one side. You guys reckon that would be suitable?That would be fine, AAAs weigh bugger all and the power has to come from somewhere. That, and with the current draw you're talking about, they should go forever... and if they don't they're cheap and easy to find. No rechargables is fine too if you're going for such a cheap/common battery.

[bogan]

Sorry for stating something that sounds a bit stupid, but why not make the battery pack external and run a power lead out.
Can always velcro some AA's (or any other batteries) to the back/bottom of a helmet.

External adds complexity and wiring could get buggered, also doesn't look as nice.


I've got one of those waving cat things on my kitchen window shelf, it's solar powered... with such low current requirements, one of those any good?

See above, and with such a long expectancy from a AAAs, if it fits good in most helmets, and ok in others, they will be the way to go.

[ducatilover]

I have these really strange lights on my dash that for some reason flash as if to remind me I am using my indicators :innocent: :P

[avgas]

External adds complexity and wiring could get buggered, also doesn't look as nice.
heh your another engineer aren't you. :yes:

Word of advise from one engineer to another. There is a point of over-engineering. We can't see it. But it exists.

The difference between perfection and error is one you can recover from, the other you never fix.

[bogan]

I have these really strange lights on my dash that for some reason flash as if to remind me I am using my indicators :innocent: :P

shhhh au, don't tell them about the compeditor's products!


heh your another engineer aren't you. :yes:

Word of advise from one engineer to another. There is a point of over-engineering. We can't see it. But it exists.

The difference between perfection and error is one you can recover from, the other you never fix.

indeed, what gave it away :bleh:

Both over, and under-engineering will lead to a poor quality product, better to just apply quality-engineering the whole way through:yes:

[Aristocat]

In the meantime, could we do something like this? Seems pretty simple; use an input (in this case radar audio) to trigger some really bright LEDs. No helmet, no wireless, no batteries. Can you do this?

[bogan]

In the meantime, could we do something like this? Seems pretty simple; use an input (in this case radar audio) to trigger some really bright LEDs. No helmet, no wireless, no batteries. Can you do this?

Shouldn't be too much longer to wait now, tested almost everything, rpm still to go. Then re-jig the circuits a bit and get a dozen or so made up.

[specter]

how bout looking at the dash after a turn to see if indicator is still going :tugger:

[Aristocat]

how bout looking at the dash after a turn to see if indicator is still going :tugger:

Oi. Mr tugger emoticon. Exactly what value does your sarcasm add to this conversation? If you read the entire thread you'd know this is not just about indicators; it's about rider notification of any trigger they choose to connect this thing to. I personally am looking for radar notification; others are interested in other things. So pull your head in and shaddup :mad: rant over

[specter]

Oi. Mr tugger emoticon. Exactly what value does your sarcasm add to this conversation? If you read the entire thread you'd know this is not just about indicators; it's about rider notification of any trigger they choose to connect this thing to. I personally am looking for radar notification; others are interested in other things. So pull your head in and shaddup :mad: rant over

loving the negative vibes!
was more of a jest @ Bogan. he'd understand

[bogan]

was more of a jest @ Bogan. he'd understand

Indeed. Actually now that you in the cheap seats have chimed in, this product is especially for you! soon you will be able to plaster not only your bike with sponsorship logos (of people who don't actually sponsor you), but your clocks as well! that'll be fookin mint right? :2thumbsup :scratch:

[specter]

Indeed. Actually now that you in the cheap seats have chimed in, this product is especially for you! soon you will be able to plaster not only your bike with sponsorship logos (of people who don't actually sponsor you), but your clocks as well! that'll be fookin mint right? :2thumbsup :scratch:

just thought I'd grace your thread with my charm :lol:


I actually am the new rider for the alstare corona race team.



they just dont know it yet:scratch:

[NinjaNanna]

No that your getting close to complete, have you any indication as to cost yet?

[ducatilover]

Grouse troll effect going on there specter :lol:

[bogan]

No that your getting close to complete, have you any indication as to cost yet?

I knew somebody was either gonna ask for a price, or an exact date! :lol: Not really sure on cost as it depends how small I can make the new board design, as that in turn effects the cases etc. For the first set I'll do some machined cases out of plastic I think. Obviously I'll give all you guys who helped first dibs on them. My guess would be still somewhere between 50 and 100, but more likely towards the middle of that range.

[Aristocat]

In the meantime, could we do something like this? Seems pretty simple; use an input (in this case radar audio) to trigger some really bright LEDs. No helmet, no wireless, no batteries. Can you do this?

I just realised I never pasted in the link :facepalm:

Here it is: http://www.marcparnes.com/Visual_Alert.htm

[bogan]

I just realised I never pasted in the link :facepalm:

Here it is: http://www.marcparnes.com/Visual_Alert.htm

Some expensive LEDs! Since I can probably do the whole wireless system for a similar price, I think it'd be better to spend my time on this, rather than knock together something else.

[specter]

Grouse troll effect going on there specter :lol:

haven't posted in a while so i thought, i should stir some shit :2thumbsup

[bogan]

Made a bit of progress today, should be getting boards printed this month. Board size ended up 30x40mm for the bike part, and 15x30mm (but 50x35 with batteries) for the helmet unit.

Also the RPM sensor works fookin mint, and my trusty honda rpm gauge is still bang on after almost 25 years :D

[bogan]

Finally some more progress!

Had some big issues getting prototype boards made, but think I've found a decent supplier now.

Hopefully the components will turn up soon and can test them out.

[Pseudonym]

I’m after a warning for my headlight being off (it’s now off and relayed to my pass switch for tuning/track days/limiting pre starting drain)
High beam on, it infuriates me when cars blind me and I don’t want to be tarred with the same brush.
Oil pressure and temp warning (same LED), a temp light circuit I’ll put on the bike to trigger at 115-120 deg with an adjustment if it triggers while “safe”.

I lane split, a flashing light every morning for half an hour and I’ll end up standing naked on my roof in the poring rain screaming at the sky until they take me away…
So I’ll give the indicator trigger a miss.

So one red for temp & oil, one amber one for headlight off and one dim blue one for high beam.
But having a spare I can hook into at a later date would be nice.

I’ll get a visalert unit for the detector/jammer/EMP/anti-taxi rockets/chaff pods etc later on…

Can you PM me when you have a price please?
Ta.




Unless you want to quickly whip up a projector that overlays GPS directions with speed/warnings/info etc at infinite focal length onto our visor and augments it into what we’re actually looking at…
Like on computer games…
Piggyback onto the polices GPS transponder server for up to the minute position and alerts within 2km?

Hmmmm… maybe highlighted best lines for corners via a GPS feed and pre-programmed maps? Can you imagine the carnage?

[bogan]

Programming and testing the boards this weekend:

Audio warning works, but I used the wrong diodes so requires max volume, getting better ones is an easy fix. Blue LED
Indicator warning set for 15 secs, takes either a pulsed active low or high input. Yellow LED
Shift light works on the bench tester, and RPM setable between 8k and 25k by a trimpot. Red LED
Oil light works on an active low signal. Same RED LED as the shift light
Green LED on active low signal.

I'm considering making the green active high, and if you need multiple warning for either active low or high, just diode the signals together on the one light. But most bike stuff I work with is active low anyway, is the modern stuff the same?

Still have to make the LEDs dim at night, but the light sensor works good so should be easy enough. And put in some power saving measure, and change a heap of resistor values, tiny little 0603 format (3x1mm-ish size) just for fun <_<

Pseudonym, that would work with current hardware I think, but would require different firmware and testing, so be an extra charge for that.

I'm still trying to work out the base cost, have a better idea once I get the cases sorted, and get a better idea of how long it'll take to assemble these things.

[Pseudonym]

No rush but don’t forget me!

With the temp warning I’ll just take a feed off the fan relay, it fires in at 103c but it only usualy triggers in traffic, so it’ll be a constant systems check for that circuit.

I do love my gadgets…

[NinjaNanna]

you must spread your rep around - :doh:



Programming and testing the boards this weekend:

Audio warning works, but I used the wrong diodes so requires max volume, getting better ones is an easy fix. Blue LED
Indicator warning set for 15 secs, takes either a pulsed active low or high input. Yellow LED
Shift light works on the bench tester, and RPM setable between 8k and 25k by a trimpot. Red LED
Oil light works on an active low signal. Same RED LED as the shift light
Green LED on active low signal.

I'm considering making the green active high, and if you need multiple warning for either active low or high, just diode the signals together on the one light. But most bike stuff I work with is active low anyway, is the modern stuff the same?

Still have to make the LEDs dim at night, but the light sensor works good so should be easy enough. And put in some power saving measure, and change a heap of resistor values, tiny little 0603 format (3x1mm-ish size) just for fun <_<

Pseudonym, that would work with current hardware I think, but would require different firmware and testing, so be an extra charge for that.

I'm still trying to work out the base cost, have a better idea once I get the cases sorted, and get a better idea of how long it'll take to assemble these things.

[baffa]

Would love a HUD that displays speed and revs, but it amazes me how many people "need" reminding their indicators are on.

How often do you check your speed/gauges?

Your bike could be overheating with a warning like flashing next to the indicator that's been left on, but since you never bother looking down you never notice?

Even on a straight flat road I check the dials on a regular basis.

It kinda sounds like saying I need a HUD to display what's in my mirrors, as I never get round to checking them.

[DrunkenMistake]

Would love a HUD that displays speed and revs, but it amazes me how many people "need" reminding their indicators are on.

How often do you check your speed/gauges?

Your bike could be overheating with a warning like flashing next to the indicator that's been left on, but since you never bother looking down you never notice?

Even on a straight flat road I check the dials on a regular basis.

It kinda sounds like saying I need a HUD to display what's in my mirrors, as I never get round to checking them.

My old bike never had an idiot light, so it was kinda hard to see it flashing, but I have a habit of pressing the indicator button every god knows often haha

[Ocean1]

Would love a HUD that displays speed and revs, but it amazes me how many people "need" reminding their indicators are on.

How often do you check your speed/gauges?

Your bike could be overheating with a warning like flashing next to the indicator that's been left on, but since you never bother looking down you never notice?

Even on a straight flat road I check the dials on a regular basis.

It kinda sounds like saying I need a HUD to display what's in my mirrors, as I never get round to checking them.

And that's a good habit to have learned. And you did learn it.

As for "need"? If someone offers me a device that means I can develop the habit of keeping my eyes on the road more of the time then I'd say that's got to be a better habit to have, eh?

[bogan]

And that's a good habit to have learned. And you did learn it.

As for "need"? If someone offers me a device that means I can develop the habit of keeping my eyes on the road more of the time then I'd say that's got to be a better habit to have, eh?

And if it means cleaning up the front of the bike a bit, that may be a good thing too.

More programming this evening, got a low voltage detector in there now, and auto adjust brightness. Not sure if the LEDs are going to be bright enough, as they are approx 2V, so the voltage dropped from the batteries might significantly affect the brightness. Then again, it draws SFA current, so the batteries may hold good voltage for most of their lifetime, which should end up being over a year.
Will see in testing later this week anyway, plenty of room for some 3mm through hole ones if they are required though.

[imdying]

How often do you check your speed/gauges?Basically, never, don't see any point... My bike isn't going to magically overheat, I can't legally red line it in any gear, and I don't particularly care if I'm not sitting exactly at or below the mandated speed limit.

All that time you're fucking around looking at your gauges, that's time you're not watching for fuck heads that want to kill you, good luck with that.

[willytheekid]

Basically, never, don't see any point... My bike isn't going to magically overheat, I can't legally red line it in any gear, and I don't particularly care if I'm not sitting exactly at or below the mandated speed limit.

All that time you're fucking around looking at your gauges, that's time you're not watching for fuck heads that want to kill you, good luck with that.

Totally agree!

....but!, The NZTA & the "revenue collectors" would seem to prefer you to be paying more attention to your speedo than the road! (Just look at 5kph restrictions on holiday weekends!....watch that speedo!....not the maniac doing a uturn into you!)

I would rather pay a fine for going 5k over the limit...than pay the ultimate price for not being focused on the road and surroundings

[imdying]

I've never been given a ticket for speeding I didn't deserve; I well know when I'm breaking the speed limit without having to continually double check my speedo. I'd wager that most riders have managed to raise their skill level that far at least.

[FastBikeGear]

Totally agree!

....but!, The NZTA & the "revenue collectors" would seem to prefer you to be paying more attention to your speedo than the road! (Just look at 5kph restrictions on holiday weekends!....watch that speedo!....not the maniac doing a uturn into you!)

I would rather pay a fine for going 5k over the limit...than pay the ultimate price for not being focused on the road and surroundings

Totally agree. Keith Code says you have only $10 of attention to spend at any one time and you can't afford to waste any too much of that money looking at your speedo.

On the indicator reminder side of things....And I have to declare an invested interest here!

We have sold a stack of the Stop-its! (http://www.fastbikegear.co.nz/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=66). They are a N.Z. made indicator reminder. Very simple and have they have proven indestructible and impervious to weather and vibrations, etc. They will fit any motorcycle regardless of whether they use electronic or older style indicator relays. Typically take about 20 minutes to fit with a cup of coffee in one hand.

They definitely comply with the KISS principal. I originally just designed and built the first prototype a few years ago for myself because I kept leaving my indicator on (partly because the indicator on that bike took a particularly firm push to cancel) and I would occassionally have cars pull out in front of me because they thought I was turning.

Every car driver can hear their indicator, so I thought it would be good if I could hear mine as well. I then got asked to make a few for friends and the Stop-it!s have now been one of our best selling products over the last couple of years.

We get orders for them from Australia, the UK and elsewhere but strangely are yet to sell any to Italy or India...go figure?

[avgas]

For those of you whom want a mega awesome HUD, and have enough money to buy fancy new stuff there is this......

http://www.reconinstruments.com/products/mod

Now let Bogan get back to work finishing his nice simple (and CHEAP) one.
That is all.

[ducatilover]

Can I have a voice activated machine gun with mine?

[bogan]

Should be getting back into this a bit more now, on to helmet case number two so I can fit some brighter LEDs in it. Some other small changes to make when I get time. Price will be an even hundy, including postage, batteries (should be good for >1year), helmet adhesive, wiring instructions etc...

[NinjaNanna]

Hi Bogan, did you get a couple of these finished and do you have pics of the finished first-runs?

[bogan]

Still having issues with producing the cases, and the LED brightness. I'm sure I will come up with something of quality eventually, but I find it is easily to get sidetracked from circuit projects, cos I don't really like circuitry!

[Zedder]

I'd be more interested in a self cancelling indicator system and have seen aftermarket units for about 70USD.

Any thoughts on making them?

[bogan]

A lot of bike's switch clusters wouldn't allow a self cancelling system, and I'm not really a fan of that anyway, what happens when you are waiting in a queue for ages and it self cancels?

[Zedder]

A lot of bike's switch clusters wouldn't allow a self cancelling system, and I'm not really a fan of that anyway, what happens when you are waiting in a queue for ages and it self cancels?

There are some units which will work on any system. Some are adjustable in terms of time or number of flashes and work in with the brake system for when you're at lights/queues.

It's better to be sure your indicators are off rather than forget and have someone think you're turning and then drive into you. I've heard and read of a number of crashes due to this.

[bogan]

There are some units which will work on any system. Some are adjustable in terms of time or number of flashes and work in with the brake system for when you're at lights/queues.

It's better to be sure your indicators are off rather than forget and have someone think you're turning and then drive into you. I've heard and read of a number of crashes due to this.

True, a flasher relay replacement would do the trick on any bike; even if the switch is still on it could just stop flashing.

Exactly, what better way to be sure, than have a system which reminds you. I agree that being turned into when going straight is better than being turned into when turning after a queue, but having a reminder instead of an auto-off means you learn to be more in control, rather than more reliant on a driver aid.

Also, 70 bucks for a flasher with a timeout you say? The margin in that is almost tempting enough to make me want to make em :bleh:

[ducatilover]

There are some units which will work on any system. Some are adjustable in terms of time or number of flashes and work in with the brake system for when you're at lights/queues.

It's better to be sure your indicators are off rather than forget and have someone think you're turning and then drive into you. I've heard and read of a number of crashes due to this.

On your bike you might notice these odd little orange lights on the dash, on either side of that odd green light. Those fuckin' things keep flashing at me 'till you poke the left hand switch block.

Fuck knows what's happening there, should look in to it? :weird:

[Zedder]

On your bike you might notice these odd little orange lights on the dash, on either side of that odd green light. Those fuckin' things keep flashing at me 'till you poke the left hand switch block.

Fuck knows what's happening there, should look in to it? :weird:

And you never not turn them off?

[ducatilover]

And you never not turn them off?

I rode for a few seconds with them on once. :bleh: I don't have any issue with 'em.

[Zedder]

I rode for a few seconds with them on once. :bleh: I don't have any issue with 'em.

I've found them hard to see in certain light plus when in traffic and needing to keep alert etc.

[ducatilover]

I've found them hard to see in certain light plus when in traffic and needing to keep alert etc.

I suppose I usually fall off before it's indicator time :D :niceone: