SV650 suspension fix on a budget

[Ferkletastic]

Old story really, I have a K7 SV650s, which is awesome apart from the suspension, the suspension is not awesome, not at all.

I'm 90-95kg (depending on pie intake) and the bike is woefully undersprung for me.

As far as I can tell there are a few options available to fix things.

1. the expensive and probably best way: Decent fork springs, emulators and heavier fork oil + aftermarket rear shock built to spec. This I can't afford at the moment or any time soon.

2. Apparently rear shocks from ZX10s, ZX14s and GSXR1000 of certain years are bolt on, so source one of these and go with new fork springs and heavier oil + emulators or intiminators up front.

3. Progressive spring kit front and rear with heavier oil.

I'm leaning towards option 2 due to $$ constraints, but haven't been able to find a decent second hand one yet.

I don't ride overly hard or fast, my main concern is being able to ride 2 up comfortably + any improved handling is going to be a bonus. Unfortunitely money is an issue as I just can't afford the money for a complete re-build any time soon so am looking to make small improvements as I can afford it.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Shaun]

PM been sent to you

[BuzzardNZ]

have you played around with the stock settings yet?

If not, your cheapest option would be to try that. Unfortunately, I've heard ( from many sources ) that the SV suspension is very difficult to dial in correctly.

Despite that, next time I take mine to Wellington Motorcycles, I'm going to see if they can dial mine in for my weight

It really is expected that when you pay budget prices for SV's some parts are exactly that... budget!

[Ferkletastic]

Settings wise there's preload, and um, preload.

Even with the pre-load set max a moderate sized pillion bottoms out the rear, it's just too undersprung.

I find solo riding is ok with pre load set one click down from max matched at the front (1 line out). But only ok, it doesn't handle bumps well at all.

[Robert Taylor]

Old story really, I have a K7 SV650s, which is awesome apart from the suspension, the suspension is not awesome, not at all.

I'm 90-95kg (depending on pie intake) and the bike is woefully undersprung for me.

As far as I can tell there are a few options available to fix things.

1. the expensive and probably best way: Decent fork springs, emulators and heavier fork oil + aftermarket rear shock built to spec. This I can't afford at the moment or any time soon.

2. Apparently rear shocks from ZX10s, ZX14s and GSXR1000 of certain years are bolt on, so source one of these and go with new fork springs and heavier oil + emulators or intiminators up front.

3. Progressive spring kit front and rear with heavier oil.

I'm leaning towards option 2 due to $$ constraints, but haven't been able to find a decent second hand one yet.

I don't ride overly hard or fast, my main concern is being able to ride 2 up comfortably + any improved handling is going to be a bonus. Unfortunitely money is an issue as I just can't afford the money for a complete re-build any time soon so am looking to make small improvements as I can afford it.

Any advice is appreciated.

The reality is the front end is the biggest issue and should absolutely be sorted out first as its borderline dangerous. Its severely underdamped at low fork speed velocities causing it to pitch forward under brakes, but when you ride over abrupt bumps it feels like a jackhammer is coming up at the bars at you! NO AMOUNT OF EXTERNAL FIDDLING WILL FIX IT.

We 100% do not recommend progressively wound springs, they may in themselves provide better ride height control but also they make the abrupt bump compliance even worse. Its a 70s ''solution''

Correct rate linear wind fork springs will provide a half decent improvement, together with an oil change to a slightly different viscosity. That is a level 1 improvement
Level 2 is to add emulators and I suggest using genuine Race Tech emulators as they work the best and are far more long term durable than the cheaper Asian copies. The damper rods need to be modified as well and machined so they will actually sit concentrically in the fork tubes!!
Level 3 is to toss away the standard damper rods as they dont align very well and the tolerancing is bad requiring that you run a heavier viscosity fork oil than is desirable, heavier fork oils are overly reactive to ambient temperature shift and in cold temps the oil thickens up so much the forks become lazy in action So we fit Traxxion Dynamics damper rods that are straight and true with much tighter tolerances and allow a much lighter viscosity oil to be run making the forks more responsive.

All upgrade components ex stock

Current Pro Twins points leader ( although its racing ) Johny Small is running forks we built for him in Level 3 fashion, as did last years champion Geoff Booth. For road its softer springing and damping settings but the issues about control and tolerancing are exactly the same

With respect to the rear shock some of the ZX10 models do fit and whilst it will not turn the rear end into a silk purse it will be significantly better than the oem unit. For the road a length of about 335mm is ideal, it will jack the rear end up a bit but not excessively and load the front end a little more.

Note that we are not the cheapest, nor do we aim to be nor do we have the cheapest upgrade components. But we do provide a very high level of service. For example if you decide after a bit of use that youd like to go to slightly firmer or lighter fork springs we exchange at no further cost excepting courier fees. Also if you come to us there isnt someone else ''clipping the ticket'' on the way through acting as an agent.

[Shaun]

Settings wise there's preload, and um, preload.

Even with the pre-load set max a moderate sized pillion bottoms out the rear, it's just too undersprung.

I find solo riding is ok with pre load set one click down from max matched at the front (1 line out). But only ok, it doesn't handle bumps well at all.



The main problem ( In my Mind) with the rear is the Sv is the Linkage ratio and pull rod lengths which in turn causes the swingarm angle to be CRAP, which turns to total dog poos with a passenger as well!

For average safe riding 2 up, the shock once serviced ( If needed) is all you actually need for the road with the Linkage etc modified.

You will have all costings for this via PM later on

[Robert Taylor]

We tested Intiminators (with no preconceptions or prejudice )and found a very real issue in that they jump off their seats over abrupt bumps. This is a very audible click even if you are pushing a fork by hand.
In fairness emulators will also do this a little but much less so, all that holds them in place is main spring tension and secondary air spring effect.

[Robert Taylor]

Check out www.racetech.com and go to ''suspension lowering'', which is also relevant for raising ride height. Making longer or shorter dogbones is not a holy grail and very often it can swing the linkage into a dead zone. The very best way to lengthen is a longer shock even though concedingly the SV link is somewhat dire.
And just take a look at the size of that stock rear shock and visualise all of the components inside it, seal head, piston, shimming etc. There is no oil capacity inside that shock and it becomes toast very quickly. The ZX10 shock is a much better idea than messing around respringing and dog-boning a very basic shock.

[slofox]

I did the emulator thing on the fronts of my K7 SVS, Distinct improvement over the originals. Like it didn't chuck me over the bars every time I used the front brake.

BUT

Still not a patch on the bog standard front end of a K8 GSX-R600...

[Ferkletastic]

Cheers guys. Robert, I would love to be in a financial position to just hand my bike to you guys and say 'sort it', but the reality is that I'm just not at this stage.

However the new front springs + oil + zx10 shock idea definitely has merit as I could buy the components one at a time. and then look at the further enhancements as I could afford it. I'm not really looking for full on racing handling or anything, just improved handling on the road.

What sort of price would a zx10 or 14 shock be (second hand in decent nick)?

Shaun, thanks man looking forward to it.

[Robert Taylor]

Cheers guys. Robert, I would love to be in a financial position to just hand my bike to you guys and say 'sort it', but the reality is that I'm just not at this stage.

However the new front springs + oil + zx10 shock idea definitely has merit as I could buy the components one at a time. and then look at the further enhancements as I could afford it. I'm not really looking for full on racing handling or anything, just improved handling on the road.

What sort of price would a zx10 or 14 shock be (second hand in decent nick)?

Shaun, thanks man looking forward to it.

Ohlins fork springs ( exchangeable as or if required, a service that no-one else offers ) $249.90 per pair gst incl. Precut preload spacers supplied at no extra charge. Note that the tolerancing and finish on these springs is second to none. Instructions supplied on oil to use, level etc.

Set up notes also supplied

ZX10 shock is the best option but prices I dont know. Merv who posts on here in the race forum still likely has one, send him a pm

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=Robert Taylor;

Also if you come to us there isnt someone else ''clipping the ticket'' on the way through acting as an agent.



Sorry Customers, but you should all know me well enough by now


Robert, Are you refering to one of your agents set up around the country , ie RED in Ch CH or the Honda shop in Auckland who are OFFICUALY " Clipping the ticket acting as an agent"


Dam it is hard to get a JOB in New Zealand these days, when you are not allowed to pass on your 24 years of experience with out charging the customer for it.

O well, happy days

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=Robert Taylor


Making longer or shorter dogbones is not a holy grail and very often it can swing the linkage into a dead zone.

### Lucky we have never done that on race bikes in New Zealand then


The very best way to lengthen is a longer shock even though concedingly the SV link is somewhat dire.



### That was why I said the linkage and rods needed changing, the shock is fine for what the customer wants, the Fact of the matter is the ratio of the oem link is Crap causing his issue;s

[Robert Taylor]

Ill reiterate and elaborate on my main points;

1) Appropriate springs and oil in the front end will deliver a decent improvement. Not as good as the ''full monty'' but a big improvement nonetheless.

2) Changing pullrods is not a holy grail, sometimes you are lucky, often it messes up the linkage curve. We sorted out a DL650 recently where pullrods were made to lower the bike, the rear end was horrible. We sent the customer away with reinstallation of the standard pullrods and a shortened shock and he is very happy. There may be some corner of the world that makes a whole new linkage set for the SV650 but Ive never come across one, were they available allow in excess of $500 and I dont think the customer wants to spend that, especially if you are combining with a stock shock that is very crude and has no oil capacity. We have made a good number of Ohlins TTX for SV650 commencing with Glenn williams who still uses that shock to this day with very minimal valving change ( ask Glenn ). It does a very decent job of working in unison with a poor link ( many bikes have poor links ) Similarly current ProTwins point leader Johny Small is using a Ohlins type 46 with a very well developed valving spec that we installed and that combo is working really well. Class rules dont allow whole link changes and over the last few years we have done a lot of development and basically know what damping forces and spring rates will work with the stock link. Different specs for ROAD and for TRACK

3) Certain models of ZX10 shock will bolt pretty much straight in and provide a decent improvement at very low cost

[Pussy]

@ ferklelastic...
I have had personal experience of a K5 SV650S where Traxxion damper rods and Racetech emulators have been fitted. The forks felt like well set up cartridge ones.
The advantage of the Traxxion rods is that they are machined, so are concentric and on size. The stock rods are pressed/extruded type, and it's a bit of a mixed bag as to concentricity and diameter.
My advice... save a few pennies and work towards Traxxion rods and Racetech emulators, with decent linear springs. You won't be disappointed!

[Ferkletastic]

Awesome, thanks guys for all the advice.

I'm still digesting the info provided, as stated my first concern is making 2 up riding actually possible as currently the shock bottoms out completely with a moderate sized passenger. It seems like the zx10 shock is probably the best solution to sort the rear at this stage and I'll PM Merv to get the ball rolling.

The Ohlins front springs sounds like a good start for the front definitely. As soon as I know the situation with the rear shock I'll sort out when I can order the springs.

[Ferkletastic]

PM'd Merv, he's never had a zx10 or the shock that goes with it. Musta got your names mixed up there Robert. No worries though, if you do remember let me know, in the mean time I'll keep hunting.

[davebullet]

Hi Ferkle,

I replaced the rear of my (pointy) K3SV650 with a K3 GSXR1000 rear. I went for this shock because:
a) the spring rate was a better match
b) the shock length was the same (or within 2mm from memory).
c) the reservoir was going to fit under the battery (with minor mods) since the SV isn't designed to have a fixed "at the top" reservoir. The K3 apparently has a bit more room to play with than later models (slightly different rear frame).

All up it cost me NZD$80 - including shipping.

I have some photos of the replacement on my photobucket - will post later if you are interested.

There is a spreadsheet around (might be on sv650 forums site) comparing spring lengths, rates of the various shocks.

Did it help - yes. I think I ended up lowering the back slightly - which has affected the geometry and changed the steering from neutral through the corners. I still have the factory shock so if I ever sell the bike - the bike can be put back to original.

From memory - one of the ZX shocks will provide a stiffer spring for your weight.

I haven't done anything to the front forks.

All I can say is cheap as is as cheap does. Especially if you are like me and know little about suspension :facepalm: So - don't expect an "Ohlins awakening".

Also be aware your shock may have come off a crashed bike. God knows how you check for alignment - but take it easy if you fit it (slow speed stuff and some really rutty / nasty surfaces at slow speed) - to test it out, make sure it's secure and not leaking / causing problems - just be careful!

PS: I am about 85kgs including gear

[Ferkletastic]

Hi Ferkle,

I replaced the rear of my (pointy) K3SV650 with a K3 GSXR1000 rear. I went for this shock because:
a) the spring rate was a better match
b) the shock length was the same (or within 2mm from memory).
c) the reservoir was going to fit under the battery (with minor mods) since the SV isn't designed to have a fixed "at the top" reservoir. The K3 apparently has a bit more room to play with than later models (slightly different rear frame).

All up it cost me NZD$80 - including shipping.

I have some photos of the replacement on my photobucket - will post later if you are interested.

There is a spreadsheet around (might be on sv650 forums site) comparing spring lengths, rates of the various shocks.

Did it help - yes. I think I ended up lowering the back slightly - which has affected the geometry and changed the steering from neutral through the corners. I still have the factory shock so if I ever sell the bike - the bike can be put back to original.

From memory - one of the ZX shocks will provide a stiffer spring for your weight.

I haven't done anything to the front forks.

All I can say is cheap as is as cheap does. Especially if you are like me and know little about suspension :facepalm: So - don't expect an "Ohlins awakening".

Also be aware your shock may have come off a crashed bike. God knows how you check for alignment - but take it easy if you fit it (slow speed stuff and some really rutty / nasty surfaces at slow speed) - to test it out, make sure it's secure and not leaking / causing problems - just be careful!

Cheers, the zx10 and zx14 shocks have the reservoir mounted in such a way that no mod of battery box is needed and they're the right length also. Yeah the plan is to hopefully score a unit off somebody that's upgraded their shock as opposed to crashed it. But I'll definitely keep your advice in mind.