A charge to the fraternity

[blackdog]

thoughts please

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiisiJ5wIIw

[blackdog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xZJPitytR3k

[blackdog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfJVWv5Umc4&feature=player_detailpage

[Edbear]

Are you thinking of joining up?

[blackdog]

Are you thinking of joining up?

Yes. I believe that any opportunity to better myself as a person has got to be good, and with the added incentive of being able to help others if i can, maybe more of us should hold ourselves to these standards.

[Big Dave]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/P5xzhhp6yQk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[blackdog]

lolz rofl lmao etc etc

[Edbear]

Yes. I believe that any opportunity to better myself as a person has got to be good, and with the added incentive of being able to help others if i can, maybe more of us should hold ourselves to these standards.

There are other charitable organisations without the baggage of religion and money. Like all organisations the Mason's have their good and bad. Here's a comment from an ex member... ": “I was a member of a Masonic Lodge. And though it is known as a fraternal society that provides help for its members, I observed rituals that involved the use of skulls and bones and the invoking of spirits. These spirits supposedly help those who interact with them to develop spiritually."

It is put forward as a religiously neutral forum but there is a lot made of religion of all persuasions in the organisation. My issue is with inter-faith movements in general and the failure of religions to be a uniting force for good and peace in the world.

If you're going to use the Bible for support, at least read it and do what it says, something neither the churches of Christendom nor the Mason's themselves bother with.

My sister is a senior administrator in the Red Cross and that would be a better option with training and the ability to learn first aid and be involved in helping the community directly. You could consider St. John's the Fire Service, Civil Defence, as well run and well respected organisations that put so very much back into their communities. I've worked with and known a few Mason's and they seemed to be apart from the common people of society, all mysterious and didn't seem to do much at all. Perhaps some do behind the scenes, I don't know.

Maybe if you sat down and thought about where you want to head with your life, the aspects of yourself you'd like to improve or develop or the less attractive things you'd like to change about yourself you may be able to think of ways and organisations that could help facilitate that.

My 2c worth anyway...

[blackdog]

I observed rituals that involved the use of skulls and bones and the invoking of spirits. These spirits supposedly help those who interact with them to develop spiritually



I am certain this is not true.

Lets hear from the masons on this site, I think there are a few.

[JimO]

i bet the spirits come in bottles

[blackdog]

I don't know.





correct...

[blackdog]

i bet the spirits come in bottles

lol yes i believe a tipple or two is usually in order

[Edbear]

I am certain this is not true.

Lets hear from the masons on this site, I think there are a few.

I wasn't there, so can only say what he said he saw. Like many organisations, the Masons are made up of individuals from many walks of life and many different religions, and they say that whatever religion you belong to and whatever you believe is fine, so expect there will be a variety of rituals and practices among the members depending on just what they believe.

If you can accept that and it's fine by you, you can make your own decisions.

[steve_t]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tT0WEFs2S90" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sorry, someone had to post it :innocent:

But seriously, I wasn't aware that there was a community of Freemasons in NZ. Is there tithing or other such monetary payments to the organisation?

[blackdog]

I wasn't there, so can only say what he said he saw. Like many organisations, the Masons are made up of individuals from many walks of life and many different religions, and they say that whatever religion you belong to and whatever you believe is fine, so expect there will be a variety of rituals and practices among the members depending on just what they believe.

If you can accept that and it's fine by you, you can make your own decisions.

actually the fact that regardless of your religion you are still welcome is one of the things that appeals to me.

hindu, muslim, or christian to me you are a person that if earned deserves my respect regardless

[blackdog]

I wasn't aware that there was a community of Freemasons in NZ.

you are now

[Edbear]

actually the fact that regardless of your religion you are still welcome is one of the things that appeals to me.

hindu, muslim, or christian to me you are a person that if earned deserves my respect regardless

That would be true of most countries and most people.

[steve_t]

you are now

Are they publically active in the NZ community? Are their numbers very large?

[blackdog]

That would be true of some countries and some people.

sorry ed not sure about most

[blackdog]

Are they publically active in the NZ community? Are their numbers very large?

http://www.freemasons.co.nz/cms/

Yes. Large.

[YellowDog]

I have a circle of friends who are almost all masons and always asking me to come and visit their lodge. I thought it was all supposed to be secret? Apparently not, it's their ancient rituals which are secret so that they can identify themselves to each other with their coded handshakes and distinguishing words. It seem to be the thing to do after divorce :lol:

I don't have time for that sort of stuff (or a suit that fits), but I would say from what I have seen that they do seem to be very decent people. They give up their own time for charitable work, which I would love to have time to do. Lots of work with children's charities and they offer educational grants. I heard there is some kind of sponsorship with Starship hospital and that St John ambulances will be showing the square and compasses as part of another sponsorship deal.

Apparently 100% of contributions goes directly to the needy, rather than the small amount most charities are able to utilise after running their organisations.

I’m sure masons do get their share of arrogant wankers too. They don’t seem to be hurting anyone, from what I have seen, so I say let them be.

[Edbear]

sorry ed not sure about most

Yeah, seems to be the way the world's going to be rather less tolerant than more so.

[blackdog]

I have a circle of friends who are almost all masons and always asking me to come and visit their lodge. I thought it was all supposed to be secret? Apparently not, it's their ancient rituals which are secret so that they can identify themselves to each other with their coded handshakes and distinguishing words. It seem to be the thing to do after divorce :lol:

I don't have time for that sort of stuff (or a suit that fits), but I would say from what I have seen that they do seem to be very decent people. They give up their own time for charitable work, which I would love to have time to do. Lots of work with children's charities and they offer educational grants. I heard there is some kind of sponsorship with Starship hospital and that St John ambulances will be showing the square and compasses as part of another sponsorship deal.

Apparently 100% of contributions goes directly to the needy, rather than the small amount most charities are able to utilise after running their organisations.

I’m sure masons do get their share of arrogant wankers too. They don’t seem to be hurting anyone, from what I have seen, so I say let them be.

thank you for that YD

all sensible input is welcome in this thread

[blackdog]

i wonder how many actually watched the video in the OP before wading in:)

[PrincessBandit]

Are they publically active in the NZ community? Are their numbers very large?

Given the number of masonic lodges seen throughout the country I would say yes and yes?

[blackdog]

Given the number of masonic lodges seen throughout the country I would say yes and yes?

thanks PB

now i'm hoping someone can help me out with some spelling (hitcher?)

apparently the 'G' is not always 'God' but can be the Grand metrematition of the universe? (I'm more comfortable with that, as for me the idea of an actual one god?)

help to spell it correctly will be much app'd

[Edbear]

i wonder how many actually watched the video in the OP before wading in:)

I did.....

[blackdog]

I did.....

:2thumbsup

did you think he made some sense?

[phill-k]

In the good old days you had to be invited to join the lodge, don't tell me they are welcoming just any old riff raff barking dog in.

[Edbear]

:2thumbsup

did you think he made some sense?

Of course, it's just that I'm a realist and don't see the need for this type of organisation. You can do all you're talking about without the pomp and ceremony and "old boys" club type of exclusivity. I've no doubt that YellowDog is right in the things the Mason's do, but it's not my scene. If it's yours, that's the wonderful thing about NZ, eh?

[steve_t]

Given the number of masonic lodges seen throughout the country I would say yes and yes?

Yeah, I followed the link to the website and even here in the Waikato there are quite a few lodges. It made me wonder how many people I know are Masons but I'm just unaware of it.
Good, informative website

[blackdog]

Yeah, I followed the link to the website and even here in the Waikato there are quite a few lodges. It made me wonder how many people I know are Masons but I'm just unaware of it.
Good, informative website

will you investigate further?

[phill-k]

In the good old days you had to be invited to join the lodge, don't tell me they are welcoming just any old riff raff barking dog in.


please feel free to fuck off you don't know me

And the barking dog steps up and bites the troll :yes:

[Edbear]

please feel free to fuck off you don't know me

I'm sure it was said in jest, tongue firmly in cheek, mate... :yes:

[steve_t]

will you investigate further?

Much to Edbear's disappointment no doubt, I don't believe in a "supreme being". That's probably the one major sticking point for me. The role of partners would also need to be investigated as while I appreciate the concept of a fraternity with the support of their partners and families, I'd be more inclined to consider something that involved my partner directly. She'd probably appreciate that too. I guess I'm a little too secular. HOWEVER, I absolutely agree with the other concepts within the Freemason's Code especially the one about morals and values. I donate to charity regularly and have previously volunteered with disabled kids programmes.
So yeah, it's probably not for me but it's actually good to know there are a large number of people out there who share similar values rather than my general feeling that society is becoming increasingly self-centred.

[phill-k]

yawns... please feel free to join the conversation if you have something serious to say

Actually it was kind of serious membership certainly used to be by invitation only, but like many organisations membership is all about survival, the masons certainly do some good in the community but so to do a number of other organisations that perhaps have a more open door policy - red cross, sallies, many of the disability facilitaters such as my wife volunteers with. Mind you all of the others mentioned welcome woman and I can certainly see the benefits sometimes of an exclusive club - I shall now duck.

[blackdog]

Actually it was kind of serious membership certainly used to be by invitation only, but like many organisations membership is all about survival, the masons certainly do some good in the community but so to do a number of other organisations that perhaps have a more open door policy - red cross, sallies, many of the disability facilitaters such as my wife volunteers with. Mind you all of the others mentioned welcome woman and I can certainly see the benefits sometimes of an exclusive club - I shall now duck.

from what i have learned recently that is not the case.

my understanding is that it is NOT and NEVER was by invitation only, and that to become a freemason you only have to ask.

also, there is a wing of the society solely for women, i believe it is called 'eastern star'

google is our friend?

[Edbear]

Much to Edbear's disappointment no doubt, I don't believe in a "supreme being". That's probably the one major sticking point for me. The role of partners would also need to be investigated as while I appreciate the concept of a fraternity with the support of their partners and families, I'd be more inclined to consider something that involved my partner directly. She'd probably appreciate that too. I guess I'm a little too secular. HOWEVER, I absolutely agree with the other concepts within the Freemason's Code especially the one about morals and values. I donate to charity regularly and have previously volunteered with disabled kids programmes.
So yeah, it's probably not for me but it's actually good to know there are a large number of people out there who share similar values rather than my general feeling that society is becoming increasingly self-centred.

I'm gutted, of course! :yes:

Well said, though. It does seem that society is becoming increasingly self-centered and violently reactionary, as recent events indicate. As to which is in the majority, those who are reasonable and responsible or those who are the opposite, is really unclear. One would like to think the majority of people are still "good people", but sadly that may not last much longer.

It's apparent that many people's views are developed over time due in large part to disappointment and disallusionment more so than by positive experiences, especially in the case of organisations, whether religious or not.

Before buying a business, one is expected to do "due dilligence" and thoroughly investigate it before signing it up. Same with marriage, too many rely on the view through their rose coloured glasses and are bewildered afterwards to find the person they married was not who they thought they were. My point is that in this case, before you join an organisation, do "due dilligence" as very often you will be disappointed that what was presented to you is a veneer designed to accentuate the positve and hide or minimise the negative and like marriage, those two things are reversed after the ceremony.

[steve_t]

do "due dilligence"

:yes::yes: There seems to be a reasonable amount of misinformation (or in my case, ignorance) about the organisation. The website is very informative and those who want more information can be put in touch with a local mason who can answer any other questions. Also, it says you can attend events before you decide whether to apply to join or not. Anyone looking to join needs to get as much information as they can so they can make an informed decision :yes:

[Bald Eagle]

But seriously, I wasn't aware that there was a community of Freemasons in NZ.

There is indeed check there website (http://www.freemasons.co.nz/cms/)

[Edbear]

@edbear

i appreciate your input in this thread

is it your belief that being involved with masonry can have a negative effect?

...

I'm not saying that, as I don't know enough about the organisation to have a "working knowledge" of it's roles throughout history. Obviously it is no longer representative of its origins and is a much different animal these days. There are reports of different agendas by members involved in politics and business and wheeling and dealing done behind the scenes. However there's nothing new or unusual in that compared to most organisations around. YellowDog knows many members individually and may have a better grasp of what they're all about than I do.

I think like any organisation you need to be aware of how it matches your own values and desires and approach it with an open mind. I am especially wary where religious organisations are concerned and don't agree with "interfaith" movements.

[Big Dave]

I help out at the YMCA. I teach kids how to play basketball and be tolerant.
They wear a bib too.

[Big Dave]

II am especially wary where religious organisations are concerned and don't agree with "interfaith" movements.


Your pretend friend is better than theirs huh? :devil2:

[Edbear]

Your pretend friend is better than theirs huh? :devil2:

None of my friends are pretentious... :innocent:

[Big Dave]

None of my friends are pretentious... :innocent:

WTF am I then ???

[Edbear]

WTF am I then ???

Oh, for sure you are most humble and unpretentious among the unpretenders, my good Sir! :yes:

[Big Dave]

Nah - I'm just fukin' good :-)

[Edbear]

Brevity is not my long suit... :shutup:

[Mom]

I am certain this is not true.

Lets hear from the masons on this site, I think there are a few.

You can tell them by the handshake apparently :yes:


actually the fact that regardless of your religion you are still welcome is one of the things that appeals to me.

hindu, muslim, or christian to me you are a person that if earned deserves my respect regardless

Can I join?

Bit of a tongue in cheek question to be fair...

Do good works, have their own rituals, dont do harm, dont allow women to join...

[Edbear]

You can tell them by the handshake apparently :yes:



Can I join?

Bit of a tongue in cheek question to be fair...

Do good works, have their own rituals, dont do harm, dont allow women to join...

Hmmm... I may know of one like that where women are most welcome and treated with the greatest of respect... :innocent:

[Mom]

Hmmm... I may know of one like that where women are most welcome and treated with the greatest of respect... :innocent:

:lol: I am sure you do.

I am not sure where that droopy breasted, red haired, hairy pits and legs comment came from really :shutup:

[Smifffy]

I help out at the YMCA. I teach kids how to play basketball and be tolerant.
They wear a bib too.

Yeah, the whole apron & chains thing is, quite frankly, off putting.

The wielding of secret power and control over business & banking sounds kinda cool tho.

[Edbear]

:lol: I am sure you do.

I am not sure where that droopy breasted, red haired, hairy pits and legs comment came from really :shutup:

Hey, I don't have red hair!

[YellowDog]

I think you have to be invited to apply. If Jo Public was to simply apply as has been implied, I doubt that the masons would allow their thousands of years old secrets to be known by just anyone. I don't know. Perhaps someone on here should apply and see what happens?

The best thing I can say about the masons is that they don't go around press ganging people in to joining, like some religions I could mention.

I'm not sure that all masons do lots of charitable stuff. I get the impression that some just show up for the beer and pies. When I asked my wife about it, she said they sacrifice virgins - OK - I'm in :lol:

[Wannabiker]

Not sure if it is membership by invitation, but I believe there is a certain amount of "vetting" required before being accepted...you cant just walk in off the street, pay your subs and head for the bar. :yes:

[lb99]

My father and I got a tour though a masons lodge a couple of weeks ago, was part of a local heritage day here. most interesting to see inside that ominous un windowed building, we were taken right through the place, all of the inner chambers and all, not much to report, although there were some chain links attached to the chequered floor, Dad asked if this was where they chained the goat up. Does the boss get a hat with horns, like the grand poobah?

couldn't find any virgins though.

My grandfather was a Mason, and seemed to have held most of the senior positions in his lodge at one time or other, when I was a kid I remember him dressing up and going out "to lodge" after dark, would artfully dodge any questions asked by us kids too.

There were heaps of masons at his funeral, in full regailia, and he has a square and compass on his gravestone.

[Hitcher]

A reminder that there is a thread called "Religious Ravings" (and a fine read it is too).

This thread is fringe, so far it's skirting just on the right side of the line for it to continue unmerged with RR. Well done to all contributors on that score.

Keep up the good work.

[blackdog]

A reminder that there is a thread called "Religious Ravings" (and a fine read it is too).

This thread is fringe, so far it's skirting just on the right side of the line for it to continue unmerged with RR. Well done to all contributors on that score.

Keep up the good work.

Apologies hitcher.

Apart from the belief by masons that there is a 'greater' being, my thread has NOTHING to do with religion.

[Gubb]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6mVW7GM_I9E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[blackdog]

it is a well known fact that some freemasons are caravaners

[Ronin]

Going by some posts one has to ask. Have you considered AA as an alternative?

[scissorhands]

Longest Morning Tea
It’s on again………………The Freemasons Longest Morning Tea is being held on Saturday 6th July 2013 at 10.00am from Northland to Southland and connects Lodges with their Communities. Its fun, friendship, food and funds! See attached Flyer with full details, some ideas that have been successful in previous years and how to get good publicity out of your Lodge’s event



I've been thinking about joining a club for a while now. I miss the evenings at the daktory, playing pool and enjoying the camaraderie of fellow travellers

The Masons seem like a good bunch, prolly pretty useful in a tight squeeze too I'd say.

If they wont have me, can anyone recommend another club? I can get a bit annoying, but if I am mentored a bit [just say 'STFU Scissors'] I'm not that bad

Maybe a motorcycle club would be more suitable? but instead of being kicked out, I might just end up being kicked:bash:

Its either that or the autistic chess club, but I find those guys too annoying even for me

Anyhoos, free coffee and cake next month!!

[Big Dave]

Hell dredge.

Dawg,

Can you break wind at both ends simultaneous?

http://youtu.be/3dJf5rO0-BM?t=1m18s

[Banditbandit]

Longest Morning Tea
It’s on again………………The Freemasons Longest Morning Tea is being held on Saturday 6th July 2013 at 10.00am from Northland to Southland and connects Lodges with their Communities. Its fun, friendship, food and funds! See attached Flyer with full details, some ideas that have been successful in previous years and how to get good publicity out of your Lodge’s eventIts the Freemasonry open day this weekend, in all lodges around the country.



I've been thinking about joining a club for a while now. I miss the evenings at the daktory, playing pool and enjoying the camaraderie of fellow travellers

The Masons seem like a good bunch, prolly pretty useful in a tight squeeze too I'd say.

If they wont have me, can anyone recommend another club? I can get a bit annoying, but if I am mentored a bit [just say 'STFU Scissors'] I'm not that bad

Maybe a motorcycle club would be more suitable? but instead of being kicked out, I might just end up being kicked:bash:

Its either that or the autistic chess club, but I find those guys too annoying even for me

Anyhoos, free coffee and cake next month!!

Gawd .. are you really going to join the straight world???

[scissorhands]

Gawd .. are you really going to join the straight world???

I post on KB already....

I really doubt they'll have me. I'm too honest so discretion is a problem for me.
However, I am on the look for a club, I miss hanging out many nights of a week, with regulars and newcomers.... talking politics, having a laugh, bit like KB, only IRL

Maybe that would be a mistake??

I looked through their magazine, and yeah, I'm probably cut from a different cloth, and live a different world, and would be too challenging for most members.

I was hoping to create a groundswell of support for my causes:brick:

[scissorhands]

Hell dredge.

Dawg,

Can you break wind at both ends simultaneous?

http://youtu.be/3dJf5rO0-BM?t=1m18s

Call me Neo