The Bikers Political Party

[Conquiztador]

Maybe we are going on about all this the wrong way?

Maybe we keep telling our self the wrong things?

Maybe we would be a force so strong that other parties would shiver?


Why not start a Biker Party?
We would easily get the numbers needed to get the OK. (500 members needed)

Then that all already have a political alliance/leaning has nothing to do with it. The argument often thrown around is that as the biker community only has one thing in common: Bikes, it would not work.

But after some consideration I actually tend to differ.

Who on here can with hand on their heart actually say that the ones they vote for 100% stand for their view/opinion? I recon there would not be many. Therefore, we tend to vote for the ones who do stand for the things that matter to us.

So my logic here says that if we started a Biker United Party and only worried re issues that are important for bikers we could get enough votes to make a difference.

We would be up front re that we don't have an opinion re mining, free trade, GST etc.
But we would clearly state that we do have a clear standpoint re wirecutters, ACC levies on bikes, rider training, drink drivers, import taxes on bike parts and so on.

Now, feel free to shoot me down...

[SMOKEU]

Sounds good, but you'll need some good investors before you can get the plan off the ground.

[munster]

Conquiztador for Presidente!

You'd only need the minimum 500 signed up party members, minimal money required for advertising etc 'cause if all KiwiBikers voted for the Bikers Party, we'd be over the 5% threshold for a party seat.

[mashman]

:)... motorcyclists aren't just about motorcycling issues though, imho, and won't just vote on the basis that someone rides a motorcycle and will tackle motorcycle only issues... else they'd all vote for Goff, which they don't... (i say they, because I don't vote :))

It sounds too much like the Greens and Maori parties in ways. A narrow focus giving nothing of real substance to vote for.

just my .02...

but agree with the general can do thing... however, motorcyclists with real life policies ............

[Mom]

Now, feel free to shoot me down...

Funny you should mention this. There is some talk around this :yes:

[phill-k]

Or rather than having to find someone prepared to join the nuthouse, perhaps a party that will promise their whole party electoral vote for the party in Parliament who will take on board and commit to making changes that fit with the bikers party mandate.

[mashman]

Or rather than having to find someone prepared to join the nuthouse, perhaps a party that will promise their whole party electoral vote for the party in Parliament who will take on board and commit to making changes that fit with the bikers party mandate.

soul the devil your to sell? Again, sounds like the Greens and Maori to me... unless of course they'd be interested in......... nahhhhhhhh :shifty:

[Coldrider]

Now, feel free to shoot me down...
BANG BANG, wasn't there a TV program in the '80's called "You asked for it"

[cheshirecat]

Get a blog site up - free. Next a facebook page and twitter page - free and they all integrate. See how the numbers turn out and opinions develope.
These guys are on to it.

Crossroads Rider (http://www.crossroadsrider.com/2011/02/can-web-savvy-riders-in-britain-beat-government-goliaths/)


PS I'd considerhelping organise it myself but am chocko with other stuff.

[Big Dave]

BANG BANG, wasn't there a TV program in the '80's called "You asked for it"

Featuring former NFL quarterback Fran Tarkington. I'd have to google the other two talking heads. Edit - Nah remembered - Cathy Lee.

[Edbear]

Hmmm... Biker's United Party, or BUrP for short...:blink:

[pete376403]

Featuring former NFL quarterback Fran Tarkington. I'd have to google the other two talking heads. Edit - Nah remembered - Cathy Lee.


Cathy Lee Crosby, and some other guy. can't be arsed googling

[Conquiztador]

Sounds like Greens and Maori Party you recon? And is that a bad thing? They have a few issues that they are pushing. Then if one of the bigger parties are happy to agree on them they sell their soul re anything else. (Hone must have missed the hui where that was told)

Lets say Bikers United were to push for two things:
1. ACC to be tied in to the driver license as far as motorvehicles is concerned. as we can only drive/ride one at the time.(and don't get stuck in to if this is right or wrong, that is at this stage beside the point)
2. Remove all wirecutters and install no more of them. Replace them with better options as per some of the European countries.

Bikers United go in to the election promising that they would fight for those two (and again, please do not worry re the issues and what else could be considered at this stage).The bikers in NZ who care re these issues would vote for them so would also many who voted for Bill & Ben party and McGillcuddy (or whatever their name was) as they like to stirr. Bikers United would get a seat or two in parlament. One of the bigger parties needs one or two more to be in power. They agree that if Bikers United come aboard wirecutters would disappear and ACC would be be tied in to driver licenses and not to each car/bike.

Then Bikers United have 3 years to be there and do some more good. Come next election they again pick a couple of main issues that bikers care for and do the same. The main parties know that there is no BS with Bikers United. Bikers United promised to support them as long as they got what they wanted. And that was precisely how it worked out. The bikers who voted would say: "They did what they promised! I vote for them again!" And now they get a couple more in...

Face it, the way we are now working and relying on others is doomed.

You can shoot again if ya so wish, but as I have had a JD or two I am officially bullet proof now.

[schrodingers cat]

Hone Hawarewa might like to team up. He's about as agreeable as the rest on here so should fit in nicely. Buy him a Harley and tell him to rally the bros. What a force.

Actually get Brian Tamaki. He can get the faithful to tithe the readies for your campaign fund

[Coldrider]

How can anyone float the idea to be a party and already call it "United".
There is nothing united about motorcyclists.

[Fatt Max]

Hmmm... Biker's United Party, or BUrP for short...:blink:

Glad you brought that up mate.....

[Conquiztador]

How can anyone float the idea to be a party and already call it "United".
There is nothing united about motorcyclists.

I can float anything I like as I do not need any permission on here.

But the party could be called anything that would be suitable.

And you are wrong. There is a couple of things that unite us:
1. A like of Bikes.
2. Hate of bike thieves
3. Dislike of things that cuts down our freedom to ride.
4. A deep desire to lock up forever any drink driver who repeatedly make our riding unsafe.

[Edbear]

Glad you brought that up mate.....

Yeah, it had to come up, it's been gurgling around long enough down below..:blink:

[Fatt Max]

I can float anything I like as I do not need any permission on here.

But the party could be called anything that would be suitable.

And you are wrong. There is a couple of things that unite us:
1. A like of Bikes.
2. Hate of bike thieves
3. Dislike of things that cuts down our freedom to ride.
4. A deep desire to lock up forever any drink driver who repeatedly make our riding unsafe.

Ok, I've been playing with this idea before, sounds like a plan. At the very least if someone votes for the party it is a vote the lying scum mainstream parties would get. That in itself is a win, isnt it not?

So, how, who, where and when...??

[Conquiztador]

Ok, I've been playing with this idea before, sounds like a plan. At the very least if someone votes for the party it is a vote the lying scum mainstream parties would get. That in itself is a win, isnt it not?

So, how, who, where and when...??

Lets find out... If Bill and Ben can do it then surely...

It might have become obvious, but if not: I am in!

Will be in Paeroa tomorrow, but I get stuck in and figure out what is needed on Monday. (Or if someone else has the time please feel free to figure stuff out and post here)

[Conquiztador]

Found this:

http://www.elections.org.nz/rules/parties/parties-nonelection/how-register-party.html

And it states that we would need 500 members and that there is no fee to pay to register...

[Coldrider]

I can float anything I like as I do not need any permission on here.

But the party could be called anything that would be suitable.

And you are wrong. There is a couple of things that unite us:
1. A like of Bikes.
2. Hate of bike thieves
3. Dislike of things that cuts down our freedom to ride.
4. A deep desire to lock up forever any drink driver who repeatedly make our riding unsafe.

1.I only like my bikes, I hate everyone elses
2. Agreed
3.Other motorcyclists do a good job of that
4.Drink drivers are only a portion, but safest while they are still drinking.

[Conquiztador]

How can anyone float the idea to be a party and already call it "United".
There is nothing united about motorcyclists.


1.I only like my bikes, I hate everyone elses
2. Agreed
3.Other motorcyclists do a good job of that
4.Drink drivers are only a portion, but safest while they are still drinking.

See, you already agreed that you were wrong re your first posting. Who knows, there might be other things that you actually would agree on...

If I change that first point to: Bikers like their own bikes. Then suddenly we agree on two things!!

I can just sense Bikers United gathering momentum!!!:wings:

[puddytat]

Yeah man , why the fuck not.....atleast even forming a party will make the powers to be ,quake in thier boots somewhat, & make them realise that after the ACC kerfuffle that theres a minority thats getting oraganised to stand up & be heard which is something they dont really want as it may encourage others....

[mashman]

Sounds like Greens and Maori Party you recon? And is that a bad thing?


Yup. Nope. I'm just a greedy fecker and wish for too much too soon :)

[avgas]

Most votes are wasted every time anyways.
So you can have mine.

[Conquiztador]

Most votes are wasted every time anyways.
So you can have mine.

Imagine if all that thought like that would vote for this biker party... There would be some scared politicians around!!!

[cc rider]

2 things guys................. plus 2 other things


1. Would we have to be nice to bicycle riders?

2. As elections are help on wknds, that's a lot of absentee votes to rely on (everyone will be out riding)

3. Any political rallies should be held at Bike Rallies to maximize numbers.

4. Just remembered, I'm not a NZer :o

[Conquiztador]

2 things guys................. plus 2 other things


1. Would we have to be nice to bicycle riders?

2. As elections are help on wknds, that's a lot of absentee votes to rely on (everyone will be out riding)

3. Any political rallies should be held at Bike Rallies to maximize numbers.

4. Just remembered, I'm not a NZer :o

1. No

2. Postal votes!

3. I like your thinking!

4. Race, sexual orientation, religion, or any other difference does not matter as long as you are a biker!

[cc rider]

1. No

2. Postal votes!

3. I like your thinking!

4. Race, sexual orientation, religion, or any other difference does not matter as long as you are a biker!1. Yay

2. This is my point... how many votes are 'lost' due to postal/absentee non-votes.

3. Bike riders are used to milling around in large groups making grumbling noises & sounding out the occasional cheer. True that usually involves some-one dropping their bike or a bit of a titty flash.

4. Hmmm... so is OK I'm from OZ? I do visit a lot. Cool! You got my vote :wings:

[avgas]

Imagine if all that thought like that would vote for this biker party... There would be some scared politicians around!!!
Yep.
Issues on the agenda would simply change to whom gives the bigger tax cut.
Oh hang on.....

[Conquiztador]

Yep.
Issues on the agenda would simply change to whom gives the bigger tax cut.
Oh hang on.....

I forgive you and your lapse of focus.

We would go in with a few biker issues that we want sorted, the ones that all bikers can agree on. See, currently there is heaps of crap going on at the gummint level. That would not change, but we would have a few things our way. Then next election a few more. Then the one after that a few more. Before you know it EnZeed would be the best place to be a biker! And with a country like this so it should!

Right, need a couple of hours sleep before we ride to Paeroa.

Later

[NONONO]

and National, the party of "Hike the Levys...then hike them some more"
would love to see this happen.
How many Edmunds and Heneriettas do you think would swap their Nat vote for a BURP vote?
"Oh I say Edmund, those bikie chappies are getting somewhat of a raw deal, doncha think? Maybe we should cast our votey thing for BuRP".......:facepalm:

[Hitcher]

A single-issue political party is a waste of time.

And given the tribalism inherent in the biker community, it's hard to see Honda and Harley riders in the same room, let alone them lining up to hug scooter riders.

[Fatt Max]

A single-issue political party is a waste of time.

And given the tribalism inherent in the biker community, it's hard to see Honda and Harley riders in the same room, let alone them lining up to hug scooter riders.

Yep, fair point,

But if it got the 500 members it required, put itself up and scored some votes, that would go some way to demonstrating a point......maybe, I dunno. I was up for this a while back but yes, there is so much division it seems almost futile to imagine a united support.

Still, if someone wanted to kick it off I would support it, just to take votes off the other lying, scheming bastards.

Maybe that is what Idleoodleayy-ee-doo is planning...??

[Hitcher]

A successful Biker Party has to have something meaningful to say, not only to bikers but also to all other voters. After all, there are more of them than there are of us.

As for the 500 members bizzo, remember the Christian Parties and the effectiveness they've had over the years transforming New Zealand's political landscape.

It's time for a reality check, people. The Bikoi should be a sage reminder of that.

[Oakie]

A single-issue political party is a waste of time.


Glad someone else said that. The ' Legalise Cannibis Party' is an example. Way more dope smokers in the country than the 40,000 bikers but in the last 3 elections they only scored:
2002 .6%
2005 .2%
2008 .4%
of the overall vote. (That's 'point 6, point 2 and point 4 of a percent.)

Reality check. If BRONZ were the only bikers rights organisation in the country and were to stand canditates in the next election, how many bikers do you reckon would vote for them?

Not knocking the OP at all for having the idea. Just saying....

[jafar]

Maybe we are going on about all this the wrong way?

Maybe we keep telling our self the wrong things?

Maybe we would be a force so strong that other parties would shiver?


Why not start a Biker Party?
We would easily get the numbers needed to get the OK. (500 members needed)

Then that all already have a political alliance/leaning has nothing to do with it. The argument often thrown around is that as the biker community only has one thing in common: Bikes, it would not work.

But after some consideration I actually tend to differ.

Who on here can with hand on their heart actually say that the ones they vote for 100% stand for their view/opinion? I recon there would not be many. Therefore, we tend to vote for the ones who do stand for the things that matter to us.

So my logic here says that if we started a Biker United Party and only worried re issues that are important for bikers we could get enough votes to make a difference.

We would be up front re that we don't have an opinion re mining, free trade, GST etc.
But we would clearly state that we do have a clear standpoint re wirecutters, ACC levies on bikes, rider training, drink drivers, import taxes on bike parts and so on.

Now, feel free to shoot me down...

The idea has merit, the reason the Maori party exists is because they got organised, they are making a difference for their voters & are very public about doing it. 20 years ago if anyone had suggested that the maori party could exist they would have met the same arguments that are coming up in this thread. Too many divisions, narrow focus etc. The reality is that they now DO exist & are making a difference.... No reason we can't do the same. It will take a lot of organising & teamwork to get it to the next elections though.:corn:

[superman]

Glad someone else said that. The ' Legalise Cannibis Party' is an example. Way more dope smokers in the country than the 40,000 bikers but in the last 3 elections they only scored:
2002 .6%
2005 .2%
2008 .4%
of the overall vote. (That's 'point 6, point 2 and point 4 of a percent.)


Let's get this right... you're comparing the voting of people who find cannabis one of the most important parts of their lives to bikers. :facepalm: Plus they'd have a conflict of interest with the Green Party who steal a lot of pro cannabis votes for those that would even put in the effort to vote.

Bikers I imagine are much more willing to vote for a party that is defined specifically to a major part of their lives. You can see from the pro cannabis smoke outside court days that the majority of weed smokers wouldn't show up... but would bikers show up to demonstrate against ACC increases? Fuck yes they would. It's a much higher spirited bunch that wishes to take action.

If this thing actually gets up and running you'll have my vote. As a youth I'm expected to vote for some minority party anyway. :innocent:

[Oakie]

Let's get this right... you're comparing the voting of people who find cannabis one of the most important parts of their lives to bikers. :facepalm:

No. Just showing the traction a one issue party gets.


EDIT: I wonder how different the buzz a dope head gets from his joint is to the buzz we get from negotiating a nice set of twisties? Dope or Biking. Is it really just a drug of choice?

[Oakie]

You can see from the pro cannabis smoke outside court days that the majority of weed smokers wouldn't show up... but would bikers show up to demonstrate against ACC increases? :

Difference is that the huge majority of dope smokers aren't so silly as to partake in an illegal activity in public.

Anyway ... we slide off topic.

[superman]

Difference is that the huge majority of dope smokers aren't so silly as to partake in an illegal activity in public.

Anyway ... we slide off topic.

Hmmm what percent of bikers illegally break the speed limit on public roads?...

[Conquiztador]

I agree that there would be similarities to Legalise Cannabis and other minority parties that have been started for one (or a couple) of issues only and never got past the thresh-hold.

At the same time there would be many similarities to the minority parties that have managed to do this. Clearly the two successful ones being Greens and Maori party.

It is really a little like owning a bike; we all have our preferences. One would never ride a cruizer, others laugh at sport bikes. Then there is the brand loyalty: HD has its supporters (and 99% of them would never be seen on anything else), there is the 4 Japanese manufacturers that all have their devoted supporters. Ducati, BMW, Triumph and list goes on.

Think about this: If someone who wants to start a new make of bike had same attitude as the ney sayers on here (nobody wants a new make, they have all already settled for theirs. It is doomed before I even start) we would not have any new ones coming up. Two successful resent ones that straight away comes to mind: Hyosung and Victory.

And also: To vote for Legalise Cannabis is not something many in a suit/with a family/taxpayer would admit to. But I bet that if you had voted for the Bikers Party you would happily admit to that no matter who you are.

But I suppose there is only one way to find out...

[superman]

:shit: The first consensus party to hit NZ shores. Whereby matters are discussed instantly on an online forum to help aid political decisions rather than people just be voted in to make the decisions. Everyone helps make the choice... sounds like European governments (not England). And how politics really should be. Could show NZ exactly how much better a consensus government would be instead of having little kindergartners bickering away at eachother.

[oneofsix]

to vote for a bikers party would be an excuse to get the bike out to go for a ride. the cannabis smokers probably don't know what time it is until Sunday (at least those that would vote for the cannabis party) and then they are too busy feeding the munches.

Serious. Road safety, workable ACC, drink driving etc it would be more than a one issue party but a common focus, like the Greens. Heck the Greens got the anti-smacking law through amongst other non-"green" laws.

[superman]

Heck the Greens got the anti-smacking law through amongst other non-"green" laws.

It should now be called the green/nanny party. :yes:

What I don't understand is that they are totally against nuclear power which outputs vapor yet coal electricity production that outputs large amounts of pollutants is an ok alternative.

Sure nuclear waste is a bit nasty... I don't understand why all the countries with nuclear power stations don't team up and every now and again send a rocket filled with the stuff blasting into space. We'd never come across it again and all would be well.

[StoneY]

Reality check. If BRONZ were the only bikers rights organisation in the country and were to stand canditates in the next election, how many bikers do you reckon would vote for them?



Naff all mate.

Im constantly reminded of how little people think we at BRONZ do for them.... sadly.

Spending tonight reading 300+ pages of ACC policy regarding the MSL
Spent 30 odd hours last month dealing with WCC and the parking issue

And I still have to do my job, ride my bikes, look after domestics.... can anyone here clone me please? :lol:

I would gladly run for office if...IF... I thought there was any support for the efforts we make but as Hitcher says, single issue parties dont get much leverage.

There is a crap more potheads out there than Bikers to support the Legalise crew................. and they have never won a seat yet.

Could we?
We had more people at BIKEOI than the last election was won by but.... of all them of them maybe 10 would vote the same methinks :yes:

[lone_slayer]

youll have my vote but it does need to have a broader focus not just bikes

Remove GST on food (bloody good for votes)
Remove booze and smokes from supermarkets, dairys and petrol sations (only can buy from liquer (R18) stores easier to police) legalise weed sell in the same stores (we might as well gather tax on it and stop fighting it) (+ supermarkets will get booze stores next door but gets the stuff out of the kids faces etc) (and i dont smoke weed)
Driver/Rider Training as part of learners liscene
original ACC system or better
Cheese cutter etc
And try pick a few other hot options

[ellipsis]

team up and every now and again send a rocket filled with the stuff blasting into space. We'd never come across it again and all would be well.

...what about the poor little green mans planet that it might smack into in 200,000 years or so...we have to think ahead...they may not have heard of the anti smacking law, and we may be putting ourselves in the firing line of a good inter-galactic smacking...:yes:

[oneofsix]

Just for StoneY :violin:

Keep up the good work and I would vote for you ummm maybe.

[Maha]

I would vote for a biker party if I thought my vote would do some good, now is not the right time. If a biker was formed this year, my vote would not go to them. The reason for this is, my vote this year will be far better used for the party I beleive can deliver and cater for my wants and needs ........ A newly formed party of any discription would not be able to do this thus rendering my vote a waste.

[oneofsix]

I would vote for a biker party if I thought my vote would do some good, now is not the right time. If a biker was formed this year, my vote would not go to them. The reason for this is, my vote this year will be far better used for the party I beleive can deliver and cater for my wants and needs ........ A newly formed party of any discription would not be able to do this thus rendering my vote a waste.

but that would apply anytime so you are basically saying you wont vote for the biker party until they get into parliment?

[Bald Eagle]

thus rendering my vote a waste.

The only vote which is wasted is the one not cast.

[superman]

I would vote for a biker party if I thought my vote would do some good, now is not the right time. If a biker was formed this year, my vote would not go to them. The reason for this is, my vote this year will be far better used for the party I beleive can deliver and cater for my wants and needs ........ A newly formed party of any discription would not be able to do this thus rendering my vote a waste.

Your vote would do good voting for one of the 2 main parties that will get into power no matter what?

What really are the differences between Labour and National these days? A couple of stupid little policies that don't really matter. If NZ would be in a vastly different situation if one or the other was in power fair enough, but those two are more voter crazy than sticking to the original types of policies that created them. The country won't be much better being with either, they both suck just as much as eachother.

[Maha]

but that would apply anytime so you are basically saying you wont vote for the biker party until they get into parliment?

Correct, I might as well form my own party....
lets see..'The I Chew Rubber Bands Party'...
I vote with head not my heart.


The only vote which is wasted is the one not cast.

State the obvious.

[Maha]

Your vote would do good voting for one of the 2 main parties that will get into power no matter what?

What really are the differences between Labour and National these days? A couple of stupid little policies that don't really matter. If NZ would be in a vastly different situation if one or the other was in power fair enough, but those two are more voter crazy than sticking to the original types of policies that created them. The country won't be much better being with either, they both suck just as much as eachother.

Who said I vote for either of the two main parties?

[superman]

Who said I vote for either of the two main parties?

:shutup: (Imperial March begins to play...)

[oneofsix]

Who said I vote for either of the two main parties?

well that would only leave the Greens, Maori or Act as the only parties that have enough general voter support. Act is questionable as to if it makes the threshold. Maori is only really the 'special' seats so that leaves Greens. :woohoo:

[Maha]

:shutup: (Imperial March begins to play...)

Point is, there is no point...read stoney's post above and take it in..
He is right.

Can I aske a question?
Where is the funding coming from to make this happen?

[Maha]

well that would only leave the Greens, Maori or Act as the only parties that have enough general voter support. Act is questionable as to if it makes the threshold. Maori is only really the 'special' seats so that leaves Greens. :woohoo:

I do not have divulge where my vote goes to anyone, what I can say is where my vote wont go.

You left out NZ First....:facepalm:

[StoneY]

well that would only leave the Greens, Maori or Act as the only parties that have enough general voter support. Act is questionable as to if it makes the threshold. Maori is only really the 'special' seats so that leaves Greens. :woohoo:

I read on Stuff that Winnie is making a return - he is higher than Phil Goff in the preffered Prime Minster polls!

JK sitting on 46% which is about 9% down from 6 months ago

[oneofsix]

I read on Stuff that Winnie is making a return - he is higher than Phil Goff in the preffered Prime Minster polls!

JK sitting on 46% which is about 9% down from 6 months ago

With your looks mate I am sure you could beat JK :yes:

[NighthawkNZ]

http://www.bikersagainstacc.org.nz

http://www.bikersagainstacc.org.nz/docs/mpp.pdf

[Fatt Max]

can anyone here clone me please?

For fuck sake, leave it out mate....

[StoneY]

For fuck sake, leave it out mate....

C'mon Max you know ya want one of me all for yourself.....

:-)

[Maha]

C'mon Max you know ya want one of me all for yourself.....

:-)

Wrapped in pastry maybe...:corn:

[StoneY]

Wrapped in pastry maybe...:corn:

He does like his pastry................. dunno if he would enjoy the filling im a bit fatty at the moment

[Fatt Max]

He does like his pastry................. dunno if he would enjoy the filling im a bit fatty at the moment

Phhooooaaaarrrrr.........oops, sorry, inside voice talking again....:shutup:

[Conquiztador]

http://www.bikersagainstacc.org.nz

http://www.bikersagainstacc.org.nz/docs/mpp.pdf


OK. So I had a look. First link and I went to see what is coming up. November and December I see. A little later in the year clearly...

Then the second link. The party thingy. First time I heard of this (sincerely!) Or perhaps I have just been napping? Any support? Has it been started or did it die on the kitchen table?
If it has been started, what is done to get support?

[StoneY]

If it has been started, what is done to get support?

No ones told me it has started....
If it HAS I would like to know more and maybe even become a candidate or otherwise active involvement
Im getting a little annoyed with all the mainstream parties in regards follow through

And I do not mean soley on biker issues either....

[Bald Eagle]

No ones told me it has started....
If it HAS I would like to know more and maybe even become a candidate or otherwise active involvement
Im getting a little annoyed with all the mainstream parties in regards follow through

And I do not mean soley on biker issues either....

emailed the contact link on their web site asking that very question - awaiting a response.

[StoneY]

emailed the contact link on their web site asking that very question - awaiting a response.

Likewise
Pretty sure the website owners in my facebook but so long since last contact no idea how active/inactive the site is

[Conquiztador]

No ones told me it has started....
If it HAS I would like to know more and maybe even become a candidate or otherwise active involvement
Im getting a little annoyed with all the mainstream parties in regards follow through

And I do not mean soley on biker issues either....


And... the name they have picked does nothing for me. Needs to be more umph in it. The abbreviation also leaves much to desire, needs to be more unique!

[NighthawkNZ]

OK. So I had a look. First link and I went to see what is coming up. November and December I see. A little later in the year clearly...

If people don't email them with info of what is happening then they can not put on there website? kinda makes sense to me :shutup:

[mashman]

The only vote which is wasted is the one not cast.

...or the ones who vote for the losers... after all, JK says nothing gets done when in opposition, so it must be a wasted vote :)



The abbreviation also leaves much to desire, needs to be more unique!


Bikers In Group Collective Unite Nationally Towards Society party ... let's hear them try that one on the news :)

[oneofsix]

...or the ones who vote for the losers... after all, JK says nothing gets done when in opposition, so it must be a wasted vote :)

and you would believe a pollie?? The opposition are part of the government, they get to ask questions in parliament and sit on the committees etc so just having your preferred party represented is a gain, ask Winnie :yes:

[Fatt Max]

Im getting a little annoyed with all the mainstream parties in regards follow through...

Yeah, they are always shitting themselves...

[NighthawkNZ]

I think the idea was back then to get people to start thinking about it... and well I don't think they have taken it any further...

The thing is both MAG and BRONZ combined would be a good starting point if it was to be taken any further... They already have the infrastructure around the country in place, they have the numbers and can get to the rest of the clubs to gain momentum…

Thing is BRONZ Otago are not wanting to be the political group it was set up to be… and that is one reason many members a miffed… Last year the president said he doesn’t want any to do with that and just wants to be a social club… well BRONZ was never set up to be a club… Just as ACC was never set to be used how it is today… they both need to go back to their roots.

[ellipsis]

...a wild card not yet thrown into the fickle mix of kiwi's and where their votes go...key is hoping like hell that the ab's kick arse and bring the cup home...his lot will then stroll back into parliament, whatever shit they talk in the run up...

[oneofsix]

...a wild card not yet thrown into the fickle mix of kiwi's and where their votes go...key is hoping like hell that the ab's kick arse and bring the cup home...his lot will then stroll back into parliament, whatever shit they talk in the run up...

:cry: looks like we are in for a change in Governing party then :woohoo: Viva La France. Oh well at least the Royal watches will still vote for him cause he's got his invite to the wedding. :doh:

[Maha]

...a wild card not yet thrown into the fickle mix of kiwi's and where their votes go...key is hoping like hell that the ab's kick arse and bring the cup home...his lot will then stroll back into parliament, whatever shit they talk in the run up...

How exactly will it been seen that the present Government had anything to do with the All Blacks winning the world cup?...if in fact that is the case.

[StoneY]

Thing is BRONZ Otago are not wanting to be the political group it was set up to be… and that is one reason many members a miffed… Last year the president said he doesn’t want any to do with that and just wants to be a social club…

First I have heard of this ......

[shrub]

1. For a start, it would need get around 117,000 votes to get into parliament, and given there are "in the region of 90,000 registered motorcycles in NZ" (NZRAV website), I would estimate that there are probably around 60,000 motorcyclists eligible to vote. Therefore every single one of them and one other non-rider would need to vote for said party. How likely is that to happen?

2. If I am going to give my vote to a party I will expect that party to have a valid and well thought out position on finance, health, education, law and order, transport, defence an the environment; and to have credible spokespeople on all of those areas so my party can lobby for my interests in the house and participate in the select committee process.

3. What do we actually have to complain about? ACC levies are an unfair pain in the wallet, but that ain't gonna change in this lifetime, even if said party gets the 5% threshold.

4. Most importantly, it's a massive waste of energy and resources. To have a credible presence there would need to be a candidate in most electorates and an infrastructure behind those candidates. That costs massive amounts of time and money and where is that going to come from? Who is willing to knock on doors, hold meetings, hand out flyers etc?

We're a hell of a lot better off coming up with some clear and valid needs, and lobbying the existing political parties to support us. I know that Labour, Jim Anderton, the Maori Party and the Greens are all motorcycle-friendly, whereas Act, Peter Dunne and National aren't. We need to tell them what we want and get a commitment to go in to bat for us in the legislative chambers in exchange for our votes. If you want to vote for National (Act and Peter Dunne are unlikely to return in November), get in the face of your MP and get him to recognise your concerns and commit to supporting them.

[jafar]

1. For a start, it would need get around 117,000 votes to get into parliament, and given there are "in the region of 90,000 registered motorcycles in NZ" (NZRAV website), I would estimate that there are probably around 60,000 motorcyclists eligible to vote. Therefore every single one of them and one other non-rider would need to vote for said party. How likely is that to happen?

2. If I am going to give my vote to a party I will expect that party to have a valid and well thought out position on finance, health, education, law and order, transport, defence an the environment; and to have credible spokespeople on all of those areas so my party can lobby for my interests in the house and participate in the select committee process.

3. What do we actually have to complain about? ACC levies are an unfair pain in the wallet, but that ain't gonna change in this lifetime, even if said party gets the 5% threshold.

4. Most importantly, it's a massive waste of energy and resources. To have a credible presence there would need to be a candidate in most electorates and an infrastructure behind those candidates. That costs massive amounts of time and money and where is that going to come from? Who is willing to knock on doors, hold meetings, hand out flyers etc?

We're a hell of a lot better off coming up with some clear and valid needs, and lobbying the existing political parties to support us. I know that Labour, Jim Anderton, the Maori Party and the Greens are all motorcycle-friendly, whereas Act, Peter Dunne and National aren't. We need to tell them what we want and get a commitment to go in to bat for us in the legislative chambers in exchange for our votes. If you want to vote for National (Act and Peter Dunne are unlikely to return in November), get in the face of your MP and get him to recognise your concerns and commit to supporting them.

The only way to get change is to fight for it, when the final votes are tallied up & it is seen by the pollies that several thousand voted for the biker party they will then realise that we do have a voice. Thats votes that didn't go to them because of their past performance.
If a biker party was set up a realistic goal would be to have MP's in parliment after the 2014 elections.
I would doubt a biker party could get in this november, but it could still make a difference.
Don't forget that Social credit & Alliance were able to get MP's into the house on different occaisions.
With the current political system (MMP) , we have the the chance to make a difference, it is up to us wether we take the time & effort to do that.

[NighthawkNZ]

First I have heard of this ......

little bit better this year though with new presidant and all... ;-)

People that are wanting to be head people for clubs and assoiations like BRONZ have to realise what the group and club are all about...



I have always said;
Hey its great that BRONZ Otago run the VCR rally and the profits it makes go to donations and various charities... however in the time of need that money should be raised to now fight ACC... how much easier would it be if BRONZ had funding rasied by other bikers... A few other rallies could also pitch in March Hare, Brass Moneky, Magpie Madness thats for of the major rallies in the south that make good profits every year...

[shrub]

The only way to get change is to fight for it, when the final votes are tallied up & it is seen by the pollies that several thousand voted for the biker party they will then realise that we do have a voice. Thats votes that didn't go to them because of their past performance.

nice idea, but the reality is the political analysts pay almost no attention to votes gained by the parties that don't crack 5%. The main reason is that those votes come from all sides of the political spectrum, so if National lost (say) 20,000 votes, then Labour would have probably lost 15,000 votes, the Greens 2,000 votes etc, so they're not advantaged by suddenly taking motorcyclists seriously - and you have to remember that to the National party we're seen as low priority voters.


If a biker party was set up a realistic goal would be to have MP's in parliment after the 2014 elections.

No, not a realistic goal at all. It costs millions of dollars to build a political party to the point where they are a likely contendor based solely on party votes. Where are you going to find the economists to develop an economic policy? Or the legal experts to develop your justic policies? Or education, medicine etc? You will have to have them because you need more than just motorcyclists to get into parliament, so you have to have a broader appeal than ACC levies or motorcycle safety.


Don't forget that Social credit & Alliance were able to get MP's into the house on different occaisions.

Social Credit had Bruce Beetham win a seat and they had a wide ranging policies, and Social Credit contested many elections before that happened. Alliance had over 5% of the party vote and were the result of the merger of several parties with quite a broad support.


With the current political system (MMP) , we have the the chance to make a difference, it is up to us wether we take the time & effort to do that.

Absolutely. Make a difference by lobbying existing political parties to back motorcycling because 2 or 3% more votes might mean they can take power. If you're serious about engaging in the political process then form a lobby group, identify the issues and engage in a structured and managed process of lobbying the political parties until you get a commitment.

[NighthawkNZ]

1. For a start,

blah blah blah, etc etc etc, rant rave...

Whilst the main core of the party would be bikers, the party could easily align itself with any group that is upset with ACC... including other road users... starndard vehicle rego has gone up as well and that means all drivers and there was no need two...

Its not just rego and acc, what about the condition of our roads, the licensing system in general, these effect every person that drive or ride

[ellipsis]

How exactly will it been seen that the present Government had anything to do with the All Blacks winning the world cup?...if in fact that is the case.

...its got fuck all to do with the govt...its the feel good thing kiwi's get from small shit like this...and when they feel good, all is good with the planet and kiwi's dont rock the boat when they are feeling good...they dont even rock the fucking boat when they are being shafted...which is just about constantly.... you may think your well intentioned vote is going to make the difference...sorry....the multitudes are running around with their pants around their ankles and their arses greased up to be shafted even harder...a political party has to only offer some meaningless tax incentive or a shallow promise of a few more pennies, this year or maybe next year in the pay packet and average joe is happy to turn on the rugby, cricket, yachting and bask in the relative safety of not having to think too hard 'cos this is god-zone , we'll be right, black jerseys, red socks,no towel heads here...aren't we lucky...if you can even get the fuckwits to cast their vote...apolitical apathy reigns supreme...and we are world champions at it...

[shrub]

Whilst the main core of the party would be bikers, the party could easily align itself with any group that is upset with ACC... including other road users... starndard vehicle rego has gone up as well and that means all drivers and there was no need two...

Its not just rego and acc, what about the condition of our roads, the licensing system in general, these effect every person that drive or ride

Wouldn't it make much, much more sense to align with an existing political party that is going to be willing to make those issues a platform? Why reinvent the wheel?

[StoneY]

Whilst the main core of the party would be bikers, the party could easily align itself with any group that is upset with ACC... including other road users...

Yep

Diesel powered vehicle owners, 4wd clubs, car clubs, truckers, guaranteed we have more in common with a LOT of these than other factions of society

Car clubs run track days (just pointing a common ground out)

MAG are engaging very pro actively with Cyclists and getting good feedback as I understand it

Bikers have a fair ammount of sympathy still, we can capatalise on it

[shrub]

Diesel powered vehicle owners

My guess is they would like the RUC reduced, which means the money would need to come from somewhere else, which in turn means the levies on fuel would increase.


4wd clubs, car clubs
not sure what we have in common with them (apart from competing for track days) and I can't imagine they'd give a toss about road surfaces, unmarked ice grit, riding gear, tar snakes etc


truckers
Me, I love trucks and used to own and drive a furniture truck, but as for us having the same interests? They're more likely to want the RUC reduced and to get more trucks on the roads, which i'm not that fussed on because trucks fuck roads and are a pain in the arse when you get stuck behind one in the windies. They'd probably quite like to see bikers in high vis vests too so they can see us more easily. I used to hate having a bike suddenly fly past unexpectedly because he'd been tucked up my arse - which is why I always sit in a driver's mirror.



MAG are engaging very pro actively with Cyclists and getting good feedback as I understand it
Now you're talking - cyclists and motorcyclists have a lot in common only there are more of them and they tend to have more money (if you look at the demographic data available), so work with them and do what they're doing which is lobbying the political parties and engaging in carefully planned and well orchestrated PR campaigns.

And if we were to form a Bikers Party that got into parliament, what would we demand? What are our issues? What does the government need to do to get our votes?

[Maha]

......and, a biker party will need more than just bikers voting for them. 1.2 million cyclist in NZ!...they count.

[StoneY]

We all seem to have a similar opinion here...question is, what do we do with it?

I don't think collaring one of the existing parties will get us anywhere
And I dunno if we can garner the resources and support required....

But what the hell someones gotta try so, shall we? And is so, HOW?

[Bassmatt]

What about a Non Commercial Road Users Party. The name needs work but it could campaign on the issues already discussed plus having an agenda to remove all the bullshit road "safety" policies like Speed Kills and focus on reducing the road toll through changes like improved driver training etc. That potentially gives votes from all the road users who are pissed off with the state of things re drivers, roading, etc

[Maha]

Your time and energy Brent will better directed in other directions than this 'go nowhere fast' option. You should know by now that ideas such as this are just that..ideas. This 'idea' was spoken about last year around a table by a couple friends and, thats as far as it got. The idea is wonderful, the support and logistics of it is where it ends.

[NighthawkNZ]

Wouldn't it make much, much more sense to align with an existing political party that is going to be willing to make those issues a platform? Why reinvent the wheel?

I ver much doubt there wouldn't be a party that would... and they would not truely be on our side they would be just after their own gain... I don't trust any politican as it is let alone align myself with them...

[Fatt Max]

Your time and energy Brent will better directed in other directions than this 'go nowhere fast' option. You should know by now that ideas such as this are just that..ideas. This 'idea' was spoken about last year around a table by a couple friends and, thats as far as it got. The idea is wonderful, the support and logistics of it is where it ends.

Good point. It is a great idea but it is the logistics that could stand in the way. There were talks of forming one and then standing at either the Botany or another by election up north somewhere. That could have been a n interesting exercise.

All up though, it would be a HUGE undertaking. Most of us are involved in some shape or form with other motorcycle groups. My personal choice would be to see a tighter formation of the groups in order to reduce the 'division' that our pollies are rumbling on about. From there we could be the catalyst for hooking up with other road user groups.

Just my opinion people, thats all.

Ok, must dash, I have a campaign meeting with the 'Freedom for Pastry' party

Toodle pip..

[Maha]

I ver much doubt there wouldn't be a party that would... and they would not truely be on our side they would be just after their own gain... I don't trust any politican as it is let alone align myself with them...

Would the leader of the 'Biker Party' be considered a politican?

[Conquiztador]

We all seem to have a similar opinion here...question is, what do we do with it?

I don't think collaring one of the existing parties will get us anywhere
And I dunno if we can garner the resources and support required....

But what the hell someones gotta try so, shall we? And is so, HOW?

Well, I don't think it is too tricky in todays electronic world. Like someone already said on here (think I blinged you, but if not I will today).

So the plan would be:
- A few of us that are serious about giving this an attempt do some emailing, txt'ing and phone calls to each other.
- Decide on name and a basic approach.
- Get the required 500 names on a list with required details and then get registered as a political party.
- Start a webpage that informs all and everyone what this is about.
- Email all we know re that we are now serious and require their support, ask them to forward the email to all and everyone.
- Get information on all messageboards that is happy to have us there.
- Print up a A3 poster that can be taken to bike shops, put on to notice boards etc.
- Have a presense at whatever bike gatherings that is going on.
- Have candidates in the election.

Hey, I realise that this is a very simplistic view of what needs to be done. But as we do not have a million or two to spare we would need to take this approach. And the costs would be minimal. I do recon that in todays world we do not get in to expensive marketing using harware. The web should be enough. There is Facebook, Youtube, webpages and messageboards.

Perhaps also talk to some of the small parties who have done this and see what they learned?

[Conquiztador]

Would the leader of the 'Biker Party' be considered a politican?

Define politician?

[Maha]

Define politician?

A wise man once said....

''A 'Biker Party wont get the 5% required to get into parliament because, that is around 118,000 people based on 2008 figures. Even if every motorcyclist and scooter rider gave the Biker Party their vote they would fall short by a good 20,000 votes''.

Find that extra 20,000 votes and it might just scrape in.

[Conquiztador]

A wise man once said....

''A 'Biker Party wont get the 5% required to get into parliament because, that is around 118,000 people based on 2008 figures. Even if every motorcyclist and scooter rider gave the Biker Party their vote they would fall short by a good 20,000 votes''.

Find that extra 20,000 votes and it might just scrape in.

Define politician? (Or are you saying that once you are in you are a politician?)

[Maha]

Define politician? (Or are you saying that once you are in you are a politician?)

One would become politically aligned yes.
Peter Sharples said last week that even thought the Maori party has been on politics for however long, they have acheived not one thing.

Not every Cannibas smoker would vote for the Legalise Cannibas Party...

[Bald Eagle]

A wise man once said....

''A 'Biker Party wont get the 5% required to get into parliament because, that is around 118,000 people based on 2008 figures. Even if every motorcyclist and scooter rider gave the Biker Party their vote they would fall short by a good 20,000 votes''.

Find that extra 20,000 votes and it might just scrape in.

Well there where only 3 parties that got over the 5% at the last election Blue/Red and Green. If it wasn't for having their own seats the Maori Party wouldn't be there as they only got 2.3%.
The floating percentage of all others was 14.4%, the National/Labour difference was 10.9%.

[Fatt Max]

Regardless of how many supporters we could get, I always liked the idea of a vote to the biker party being obe not given to the other main parties.

Riders are voters and all that.

BTW, the census is coming up, is there an opportunity to put yourself down as a 'biker' anywhere? Didnt 11,000 people put themselves down as a Jedi Knight once? Is that maybe a way of kicking this off to some degree, be a biker at census time?

Dunno if that would work, any ideas?

[shrub]

I ver much doubt there wouldn't be a party that would... and they would not truely be on our side they would be just after their own gain... I don't trust any politican as it is let alone align myself with them...

try the Greens. Dave Clendon is a passionate all year biker and has told me that the Greens are keen to see ACC returned to the Woodhouse principles and agrees that motorcycle safety is better achieved through training and developing all road users than imposing more rules.

Or Labour - Phil Goff is a biker and is pretty against privatising ACC. Also Labour support rail, and rail is good for motorcycling because the more freight that goes by train the less trucks we have chewing up our precious oil, fucking up the roads and clogging the windies.

The two parties you can almost guarantee will be anti bikes are National and Act. I think they probably see us as high booze consumption, low hygiene, low income and low value idiots - why ride a bike when you can drive a nice shiny BMW? Motorcycling is a fringe, high risk and slightly rebellious activity; all characteristics that are pretty much contrary to anything the Tories stand for.

[Maha]

I wish those who may get this up and going, all the best.

[shrub]

A wise man once said....

''A 'Biker Party wont get the 5% required to get into parliament because, that is around 118,000 people based on 2008 figures. Even if every motorcyclist and scooter rider gave the Biker Party their vote they would fall short by a good 20,000 votes''.

Find that extra 20,000 votes and it might just scrape in.

Before you need those 20,000 votes you need to get every motorcyclist and every scooter rider to give you their party vote, and that won't happen. I won't vote for a Biker party unless I can see that they have sound and well thought out policies on the economy, education, health, welfare, justice, foreign policy and the environment because these are all issues that affect me every day.

The Biker party needs a leader, spokespeople for the various issues, PR people, policy analysts, speech writers, admin people, volunteers (and volunteer coordinators), fundraisers etc. Who do you know who has the skills to do these tasks among the motorcycle community?

I also won't vote for any party if I don't think they stand a good chance of getting a seat or past the 5% threshold because I want to influence the makeup of parliament; not influence the makeup of the people who missed out.

Finally I won't vote for a party that doesn't stand for something that makes me say "fuck yeah, that's important". What will the biker party stand for? Reduced ACC levies? Road safety? And that's where you face the biggest challenge - we haven't really got anything to complain about. Sure, I resent tar snakes and unmarked ice grit, and paying a couple of brazillian dollars to register my bike sucks, but NZers have bigger problems which means you won't get the 20,000 non-motorcyclists. Hell, if there was a way to get an extra 20,000 votes all the other parties would be beating a path to your door.

And that's the secret. If we can get (say) 40,000 bikers to stand up and say "I will vote for the party that ....." we have HUGE power. That would have brought NZ First or Act over the 5% threshold or given the Greens another 2 seats. In 2008 National would have been unable to form a government without the Maori party. That's power.

So the question needs to be asked - do we enjoy the buzz of having a biker party, or do we exert influence on the political process?

[Genestho]

National has just undertaken a 10 year strategy to 2020 (when I assume the strategy is reviewed, added to, or scrapped) to 'improve Motorcycling', if we don't like the way it is, there's plenty of scope for getting things done from our point of view.
The strategy stays in place regardless of who's in Govt.


The two parties you can almost guarantee will be anti bikes are National and Act. I think they probably see us as high booze consumption, low hygiene, low income and low value idiots - why ride a bike when you can drive a nice shiny BMW? Motorcycling is a fringe, high risk and slightly rebellious activity; all characteristics that are pretty much contrary to anything the Tories stand for.


As far as a political party or lobby group, I'm really not sure which is the best, as a minor political party you have to negotiate, depending on the votes depends on how much you'd have to negotiate.
As a lobby group you may set out a focus - but, you don't get all you want, either way, accept that you won't get it all. (What ever 'it' is)

Let me tell you as a person for nearly four years - communicated with Labour first and then National - that has used every tool and trick, NGO and stakeholder alignments, hundreds of case studies, hundreds of reports on legislation, law, court procedures, technology, (to name a few!) and data and media possible, watching news reports and keeping up, flights to parliament, visiting MP's, preparing reports, submissions, select committee processes, drumming up support, planning events, education, keeping up with and understanding parliamentary terms, processes and how lengthy they are;

Even, being able to prove arguments time and time again based on data and case studies - it is not possible to get all you want.

Still waiting for the lobbied legislative changes to go through any month now..and that will be me finally finished :)!

Don't slice yourself too thin, pick the ones you have unequivocal knowledge and a credible argument on.

KNOW your subjects inside and out, predict the arguements and have facts ready to counter. (A mental game of chess!)

It's also extremely expensive in time and money. Political party - even more so - I'd imagine.

To really get things achieved you have to almost set aside life and make a plan and set some goals.
Most people I know; who lobby and have had success, this is what they've had to do, political aspirations would be no different, I'd imagine.

Good luck ;)

[Fatt Max]

I think they probably see us as high booze consumption, low hygiene, low income and low value idiots .

Leave Auckland Council out of this please....

[MSTRS]

So the question needs to be asked - do we enjoy the buzz of having a biker party, or do we exert influence on the political process?

That's the one.
Our love of bikes does not define us as one-party voters.
Bikers are too disparate to be anything but potential swing voters.

[Bassmatt]

Before you need those 20,000 votes you need to get every motorcyclist and every scooter rider to give you their party vote, and that won't happen. I won't vote for a Biker party unless I can see that they have sound and well thought out policies on the economy, education, health, welfare, justice, foreign policy and the environment because these are all issues that affect me every day.

I also won't vote for any party if I don't think they stand a good chance of getting a seat or past the 5% threshold because I want to influence the makeup of parliament; not influence the makeup of the people who missed out.



I think you are missing the point of MMP. A bikers party (for example) will never hold enough power to be in control or even have a significant influence on economic policy or foriegn policy etc. Fuck even the Labour Party when in opposition have bugger all impact on what the Nats want to do.
As for not voting for a party that wont make the 5% threshold, if everybody had this attitude then we might as well go back to FPP.
Its as much about having a voice, rather than any actual power, and being able through being in parliament to get that voice heard by a greater number of people. To begin with anyway.

[shrub]

KNOW your subjects inside and out, predict the arguements and have facts ready to counter.


And that's where a biker party or a lobby group will need some pretty sharp researchers with access to a ton of data, skill in using quantitative and qualitive research methods, report writing skills, presentation skills etc. And men in suits (sadly that's what you need to be believed).



It's also extremely expensive in time and money. Political party - even more so - I'd imagine.

To really get things achieved you have to almost set aside life and make a plan and goals.

You're talking many hundreds of thousands of dollars here, and people willing to work 70 - 80 hours a week for little or no pay.

I hate to be the negative bastard, but I'd rather see the passion and enthusiasm channelled into something that works than see a bunch of people go broke and burn out.

[Genestho]

And that's where a biker party or a lobby group will need some pretty sharp researchers with access to a ton of data, skill in using quantitative and qualitive research methods, report writing skills, presentation skills etc. And men in suits (sadly that's what you need to be believed).

Yup!
You're talking many hundreds of thousands of dollars here, and people willing to work 70 - 80 hours a week for little or no pay.

I hate to be the negative bastard, but I'd rather see the passion and enthusiasm channelled into something that works than see a bunch of people go broke and burn out.
Yup - That's the reality I'm trying to get across, (but, c'mon anyone can wear a suit!?),

The ability to be restrained enough to respond and not re-act, go away and think and read more AND listen, takes alot of stamina, patience and more!

[Bald Eagle]

You're talking many hundreds of thousands of dollars here, and people willing to work 70 - 80 hours a week for little or no pay.


Paula Bennet will give you the $$ call it a work scheme. :rofl:

[Bassmatt]

You're talking many hundreds of thousands of dollars here, and people willing to work 70 - 80 hours a week for little or no pay.

I hate to be the negative bastard, but I'd rather see the passion and enthusiasm channelled into something that works than see a bunch of people go broke and burn out.

serious question here. If the above is the case how is it that there are so many minor parties in NZ.
About 26 outside of Parliament.

[Bald Eagle]

serious question here. If the above is the case how is it that there are so many minor parties in NZ.

Govt funding ( see earlier)

[shrub]

I think you are missing the point of MMP. A bikers party (for example) will never hold enough power to be in control or even have a significant influence on economic policy or foriegn policy etc. Fuck even the Labour Party when in opposition have bugger all impact on what the Nats want to do.
As for not voting for a party that wont make the 5% threshold, if everybody had this attitude then we might as well go back to FPP.

Actually i know quite a lot about MMP and politics in general. Where we want to exert influence is through the select committee process. If we had a National/Labour/Green/Act/NZ First/Maori candidate who was sympathetic and supportive of our needs on the select committee looking at the issues affecting us, we can have an influence on the final makeup of the laws that get passed. That tame polly will be our voice.

And why would we vote for a party that was only ever going to get 1 or 2% of the vote and was never going to get in, when bikers could be the voters that determined whether our chosen party got into parliament or got an extra seat or 2?


Its as much about having a voice, rather than any actual power, and being able through being in parliament to get that voice heard by a greater number of people. To begin with anyway
Precisely. We need a lobby group who are willing to be that voice and to get our message to the people who need to hear it - advisors, politicians etc. We also need a lobby group who is media-savvy and knows how to get in front of the press every chance they get.

[Bassmatt]

Govt funding ( see earlier)

Then the money isnt an issue.

[shrub]

serious question here. If the above is the case how is it that there are so many minor parties in NZ.

Because everyone wants to have their 15 minutes and there are a lot of people who think they have something important to say. Like these guys (who got nearly 13000 votes in 08) http://www.thekiwiparty.org.nz/ (http://www.thekiwiparty.org.nz/)

[Bassmatt]

And why would we vote for a party that was only ever going to get 1 or 2% of the vote and was never going to get in, when bikers could be the voters that determined whether our chosen party got into parliament or got an extra seat or 2

Becuase you have to start somewhere and I dont think anybody is under the illusion that a new or minor party is going to get into parliament first time round.
Good things take time:yes:
Our "chosen parties" havent done anything for us yet. Im sure they will be happy to take the votes and continue shafting us. They have done it to larger groups than ours in the past.

[shrub]

Becuase you have to start somewhere and I dont think anybody is under the illusion that a new or minor party is going to get into parliament first time round.
Good things take time:yes:
Our "chosen parties" havent done anything for us yet. Im sure they will be happy to take the votes and continue shafting us. They have done it to larger groups than ours in the past.

OK, so what does the biker party stand for? Personally I am only really in biker parties that involve booze, loud music and fires.

And if you don't like what the political parties you choose do, choose more carefully or get involved. I am very happy with how the party I usually support (The Greens) behaves, and I have personally met several of the MPs and I have been involved in the process of formulating policies on how they approach business (my area of primary expertise/interest).

MMP is an awesome concept because it means parliament isn't confined to the two big catch-all parties, and a group of bikers with a cohesive and carefully planned platform can influence the minor parties, and they in turn have a voice in parliament.

[Bassmatt]

OK, so what does the biker party stand for? Personally I am only really in biker parties that involve booze, loud music and fires.

And if you don't like what the political parties you choose do, choose more carefully or get involved. I am very happy with how the party I usually support (The Greens) behaves, and I have personally met several of the MPs and I have been involved in the process of formulating policies on how they approach business (my area of primary expertise/interest).

MMP is an awesome concept because it means parliament isn't confined to the two big catch-all parties, and a group of bikers with a cohesive and carefully planned platform can influence the minor parties, and they in turn have a voice in parliament.

Generally the political parties i vote for dont reach the threshold. I have voted Greens in the past i wont bother going into why I wont vote for them anymore.
I guess what the bikers party would stand for is being discussed in this thread. As i posted earlier I would like to see it encompass a larger group of road users than just bikers.

[shrub]

I guess what the bikers party would stand for is being discussed in this thread. As i posted earlier I would like to see it encompass a larger group of road users than just bikers.

The OP said:
We would be up front re that we don't have an opinion re mining, free trade, GST etc.
But we would clearly state that we do have a clear standpoint re wirecutters, ACC levies on bikes, rider training, drink drivers, import taxes on bike parts and so on.


I'm kind of resigned to ACC levies, and I think most of us are because at the end of the day it's a few hundred dollars, and my groceries, petrol etc are all bigger bills.

Wirecutters I don't really have an opinion on - one person has been killed because of them and they are confined to Auckland. I'm more concerned about ice grit, but then Aucklanders don't care about that.

Drink drivers - so you're suggesting that drink driving should be made illegal? Actually it is already illegal and I think successive governments have been making a priority of it.

Rider training is already available in most main centres and ACC sponsor a lot of it. What would you suggest? Make it compulsory? Who would pay for it? And where would we get the suitably qualified instructors?

Import tax on bike parts - actually they are currently duty free - http://www.customs.govt.nz/importers/Commercial+importers/Duties+and+levies.htm

Personally I don't really have anything to complain about as a motorcyclist, except too much traffic on the windy roads and 100 kmh speed limits, and I work around them by finding quiet back country roads (where I have a new problem - cyclists). What I really want is an economic environment that is business-friendly, good schooling, more jobs, police spending more time dealing with crimes, the maintenance of our health system (which is pretty good overall), and the recognition that the environment is not just a pretty thing to use but is fundamental to maintaining my bloody good lifestyle.

And more trains and buses so less people drive trucks and cars on my roads.

[MSTRS]

Wirecutters... are confined to Auckland.

You need to get out more.

[shrub]

You need to get out more.

What, and leave my computer? MAD FOOL!!!!

I haven't seen any down here and I had only ever heard of them in Auckland, so i take it back - where else are they? They certainly don't have them on the back country roads I enjoy, but they do have campervans. I'd be keen to see them banned.

[Bassmatt]

I took the liberty of seeing the OP as a starting of point for a discussion of the ideas rather than a page from the bikers party manifesto.

[ellipsis]

...how many bikers are dyed in the wool tories, a few I'd say...how many are staunch labour voters, a few I'd say...how many support the greens, a lot I'd say...how many dont own a pen, even more I'd say...how many dont vote because of the fucked in the brain attitude that politics are for other types of people, a lot I'd say...how many cant, wont or dont think about anything more than the next rally, ride, new tyre, next bottle of jd and wild talk of their anarchic lifestyle...it all sounds wonderful and if only we could band together as one group...it sounds a lot like pushing shit uphill with a pointy stick...my wife has similar attitudes to what we want from our govt...she is a 'biker'...she has often nullified my vote on the pollys big day out...must be because Im a non waving tasselled tit on a bike that wont go round corners and she's a homo on a honda...

[MSTRS]

- where else are they?

They are all over...collectively, there's quite a few hundred kms of the shit now.

Auckland motorway, north and south of the bridge
SH1 - sides and centre - between Akld and Ohinewai
SH2 small amount between Maramarua and the Tauranga turnoff
SH3 south of Wanganui
A small amount just north of Giborne towards East Cape
SH30? between Atiamuri and Whakamaru
SH2 UH side at the beginning of the Rimutakas
SH2 River Road, Upper Hutt
SH? Haywards Hill
SH2 motorway from Haywards to Petone
SH1 north of Waikanae at Peka Peka
SH1 from Paraparaumu south to Johnsonville

There'll be more, but those areas I can think of off the top of my head.
Generally speaking, down the middle isn't a big issue. At least not on motorways. It's the installation on roadsides, outside of curves that really shits me. Or around Ohinewai were it's middle and both sides. Or down the middle of narrowish main roads, like around Te Kawhata or the coast south of Paekakariki.:shutup::shit:

[NighthawkNZ]

What, and leave my computer? MAD FOOL!!!!

I haven't seen any down here and I had only ever heard of them in Auckland, so i take it back - where else are they? They certainly don't have them on the back country roads I enjoy, but they do have campervans. I'd be keen to see them banned.


Bloody heaps of them int he south... they are every where...

the are quite a few in central otago. dunedin southern motorway and more poping up all the time...

[Conquiztador]

I took the liberty of seeing the OP as a starting of point for a discussion of the ideas rather than a page from the bikers party manifesto.

Yep. That was the intention. And I think it is working...

[StoneY]

What, and leave my computer? MAD FOOL!!!!

I haven't seen any down here and I had only ever heard of them in Auckland, so i take it back - where else are they? They certainly don't have them on the back country roads I enjoy, but they do have campervans. I'd be keen to see them banned.

There is a huge length of WRB on the new highway section near Nelson I have been told, and the man who told me credits them with saving his daughters life.

I had a WRB save my fiance and I from a drunken biatch who lost control of her Commodore on River Road.
Like em or not they save more of us than they kill, and while we dont LIKE them, they seem to work.
I agree they should be swapped for a more friendly option and my fellow councillors on the MSL council will be looking into suitable modifications.

I have read the coronors report on the one fatality we 'credit' to the WRB, fact is, sad to say it was rider behaviour and error that resulted in that death.

Now, back to how we create a Political Party - and who would we want in it?

[Bald Eagle]

Now, back to how we create a Political Party - and who would we want in it?
What does a political party need to have to apply for and maintain registration?

1) An acceptable party name (and any abbreviation).
2) Satisfactory evidence of at least 500 eligible members.
3) Statutory declarations from its party secretary concerning membership, intention to contest general elections, and advising of any component parties.
4) Party membership rules showing what is required for current financial membership, and candidate selection rules which provide for the democratic involvement of members in the process.
5) An auditor (or person who has agreed to be auditor when the party is registered).
6) A party secretary with a postal address (and ideally phone, fax and e-mail contact details).
7) Either the secretary, or a sitting MP who is a current financial member of the party, to make the application.
The party should also understand and be prepared to meet the ongoing compliance requirements of being a registered political party.



- and who would we want in it?

That's the hard question the other stuffs just process.

[StoneY]

Define politician?

Can smile at you while looking you in the face and lie very convincingly ( too many to name)

Then you get the odd well meaning type who enters the feild trying to change the world for utopian reasons, then finds its a sham and eventually quits or joins in the feeding, and forgets what they initially became an MP for. (Pointing at Paula Bennet there)

And then again I am sure there are plenty in the middle

My roles in BRONZ require a lot of political manouvering, even at the lobbying group level....sigh
Its the one unpallatable aspect of the work we do, some call it compromising, some call it selling out.... cant please em all

ACC meeting tomorrow, Ulysses forum group meeting on Saturday...... it never ends!

[Genestho]

There is a huge length of WRB on the new highway section near Nelson I have been told, and the man who told me credits them with saving his daughters life.

I had a WRB save my fiance and I from a drunken biatch who lost control of her Commodore on River Road.
Like em or not they save more of us than they kill, and while we dont LIKE them, they seem to work.
I agree they should be swapped for a more friendly option and my fellow councillors on the MSL council will be looking into suitable modifications.

I have read the coronors report on the one fatality we 'credit' to the WRB, fact is, sad to say it was rider behaviour and error that resulted in that death.

Now, back to how we create a Political Party - and who would we want in it?
Had a quiet chat with an unamed source who's said they're looking at better post options for WRB's to absorb the energy from impact better, it was said it was thought better through risk assessments for motorcyclists to hit a WRB at speed than a concrete wall.

The question put back to me was "How do we stop cars/trucks/motorbikes from crossing centrelines with minimal impact and absorb that energy"..

Have also heard "Anecdotally there is only one Motorcyclist that's been killed by WRB's" It was offered, but I declined to read the coroners report.

On asking how to find NZ specific data on WRB's, and if a WRB was a contributor to Motorcycle fatalities, how would it be logged in the CAS report, it was said as 'object' but it wasn't recalled if 'object' was broken down..someone else may know this..?

sorry to take off topic...

[Conquiztador]

sorry to take off topic...

You are one of the really small group that are allowed to take off topic as many times as you want to. :sunny:

[Big Dave]

Operation of factions

In political organisations that are democratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic) in structure, factions rely heavily on securing enough votes to win important ballots. This process is sometimes referred to as “doing the numbers”. Having the numbers will allow the faction to push policies it supports and elect its members to powerful positions within the broader organisation.
If one faction develops within an organisation, there will usually be at least one other that develops in opposition to it. Opposing factions will try to match each others’ level of organisation and internal discipline, but will also engage in negotiations and trade-offs to ensure that the organisation’s activities are not compromised and that every group has a chance to obtain at least some of its goals.
Key to the operation of an organised faction is the existence of a power base. This will typically be some office, division or branch of the broader organisation over which the faction has effective control. Sometimes a power base may be an external or affiliated organisation that is involved with the broader organisation in some way.
A power base serves several key functions:


It acts as a recruitment center for new members, and promotes homogeneity within the membership (crucial for maintaining factional cohesion);
It can be used as an organising center for factional events and activities;
It functions as a springboard, advancing the career of selected factional members and allowing them to gain skills that will increase their effectiveness and clout.

--------------

I have always maintained that the only way to get traction is to create the faction.
But the fractious, individualist nature of the herd makes anything but wheel spin unlikely. (Hey, Avgas?)

Be interesting to know how many hands are needed to be a power base in the Greens - EG.