Motorcycle ACTION Now!

[idleidolidyll]

Those of you who've been watching know I'm dismayed and frustrated by the inaction of those who claim to represent motorcyclists in NZ.

We have any number of people talking on our behalf but that's been happening for years and we've seen little to no movement from government except appoint a group to investigate. I believe that will be a whitewash or dismissed in the run up to, and following the general election.

With that election looming, NOW is the right time to hit the streets and take real action. Given debate and discussions here over the last month or so, it seems there is little likelihood that one of the existing groups representing us will take action any time soon.

I've been asked to help recruit and guide people on appropriate action we can take individually and in groups to bring real attention to our various causes.

Those of you prepared to get out and be seen to be doing something, those of you thinking that civil disobedience or similar just might be necessary; please pm me and register your interest.

I'll need your location and a contact phone number; preferably a mobile number to be able to receive text messaging. Flash Mobs are a good way to circumvent those who would delay or misdirect us in our action.

As I live in Auckland, I'll have to start here. However, I do get around the country a bit and can make side calls on business trips. Even if you live outside Auckland, register your interest as we can share ideas and recruitment options.

Discussion of actual action options should be carefully worded. don't drop yourself in it with the law who are watching. Register first and we can work out communication methods via pm, txt messaging, email etc.

[idleidolidyll]

A note on leadership.

Leaders are people respected for their vision and actions. they are people other WANT to follow.

I am not proposing myself as leader of this or any group. Should you wish to propose a leader, that would be welcome. When the time comes, I may or may not stand for some kind of leadership role. For the present, please consider me a co-ordinator or facilitator.

We'll go from there.

[superman]

Give me a gang patch and I'll put it on the back of my jacket to show all car drivers what I'm a part of. :yes:

[Usarka]

What specific causes are you trying to target and what are your objectives? And how are you expecting to communicate these to the general public?

At the moment it sounds more like an excuse for civil disobedience "because we're pissed off" rather than something that is expected to achieve an outcome.

[DEVVIL]

Will see you at our next Meeting.

Find out whats going on with the call for action.

If you don't show up you don't have a say.


(09) MAG Meeting Wednesday,2nd March 2011 (http://www.mag-nz.org/members/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62&p=407#p407)

http://www.mag-nz.org/members/styles/proFormell/imageset/icon_post_target.gif (http://www.mag-nz.org/members/viewtopic.php?p=407#p407)by Caseye (http://www.mag-nz.org/members/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=92) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:08 pm
OK for those who don't know whats going on with the Auckland contingent of MAG-NZ, we have had 3 meetings over the last 3 months. Each has got progressively bigger and better.
Last nights meeting was the last to be held at O'Hagans in the city as it's too crowded and hard to get away from if you have to go out through town.
So the next meeting of the (09) MAG Contingent will be held at the Cardrona Speights Ale House.
At 7 pm on WEDNESDAY the 2nd of march 2011.
Heres the link to the Place.It has directions/ locations maps attached.
No excuses for getting lost now.

<!-- m -->http://www.cardronaspeightsalehouse.co.nz/<!-- m -->

So do come along, your input is valued and wanted. I'm sure that those attending will find this meeting interesting to say the least.

[idleidolidyll]

This is a serious thread. All attempts to move it off topic will be reported to the moderators. All personal attacks and attempts to spam the thread will be reported to the moderators.

If you have an on topic serious question, it will be answered or discussed as it merits.

Moderators, with your kind assistance I'd like to see all deliberate attacks and attempts to hijack deleted or sent to pointless drivel.

[Fatt Max]

Those of you who've been watching know I'm dismayed and frustrated by the inaction of those who claim to represent motorcyclists in NZ.

We have any number of people talking on our behalf but that's been happening for years and we've seen little to no movement from government except appoint a group to investigate. I believe that will be a whitewash or dismissed in the run up to, and following the general election.

With that election looming, NOW is the right time to hit the streets and take real action. Given debate and discussions here over the last month or so, it seems there is little likelihood that one of the existing groups representing us will take action any time soon.

I've been asked to help recruit and guide people on appropriate action we can take individually and in groups to bring real attention to our various causes.

Those of you prepared to get out and be seen to be doing something, those of you thinking that civil disobedience or similar just might be necessary; please pm me and register your interest.

I'll need your location and a contact phone number; preferably a mobile number to be able to receive text messaging. Flash Mobs are a good way to circumvent those who would delay or misdirect us in our action.

As I live in Auckland, I'll have to start here. However, I do get around the country a bit and can make side calls on business trips. Even if you live outside Auckland, register your interest as we can share ideas and recruitment options.

Discussion of actual action options should be carefully worded. don't drop yourself in it with the law who are watching. Register first and we can work out communication methods via pm, txt messaging, email etc.

Ok, all jokes aside I can see you are both passionate and frustrated. Fair enough, that is more than evident.

I shall ignore your, lets say, aggressive approach because I would not like that to cloud my response. I respect the fact that you are holding no bars so, as far as I am concerned, we can move on.

I see that you have been asked to recruit people. None of my business who asked you but you have taken to the task with the vigour that would be expected.

Your action is being planned through PM’s and text messages to keep it low key and out of the spotlight in case the authorities get wind of it. Yep, sensible move that because you make it clear you will be engaging in some serious action.

You will see I am not trying to be argumentative here…..

All I ask is, and this is with the greatest respect, is how you intend to drum up support when you are alienating yourself from every motorcycling group in the country? Honestly, these groups consist of passionate people, we all want a change and we all want to be part of making that change. You seem to be baiting these people, calling them spineless and threatening to go and tear some arseholes. All very aggressive stuff mate.

I’m not saying don’t get out there and fight the fight, I am just suggesting that active participation and partnership with the motorcycle groups may be more advantageous to the end result. There are members of these organizations who are astute, have built up contacts with lobby groups, political parties, the media, all of whom can succeed on a combined effort.

Do not discount these groups completely as this combined effort could be the answer to all our strife with the challenges our community is facing.

[avgas]

Will see you at our next Meeting.
Can I do burnouts there?

Because I am not the girl guide type supporter

Fuck the talk, fuck the meetings. Burnouts and Riots.
We no longer ask for change, we demand it.

[nodrog]

Ok, all jokes aside I can see you are both passionate and frustrated. Fair enough, that is more than evident.

I shall ignore your, lets say, aggressive approach because I would not like that to cloud my response. I respect the fact that you are holding no bars so, as far as I am concerned, we can move on.

I see that you have been asked to recruit people. None of my business who asked you but you have taken to the task with the vigour that would be expected.

Your action is being planned through PM’s and text messages to keep it low key and out of the spotlight in case the authorities get wind of it. Yep, sensible move that because you make it clear you will be engaging in some serious action.

You will see I am not trying to be argumentative here…..

All I ask is, and this is with the greatest respect, is how you intend to drum up support when you are alienating yourself from every motorcycling group in the country? Honestly, these groups consist of passionate people, we all want a change and we all want to be part of making that change. You seem to be baiting these people, calling them spineless and threatening to go and tear some arseholes. All very aggressive stuff mate.

I’m not saying don’t get out there and fight the fight, I am just suggesting that active participation and partnership with the motorcycle groups may be more advantageous to the end result. There are members of these organizations who are astute, have built up contacts with lobby groups, political parties, the media, all of whom can succeed on a combined effort.

Do not discount these groups completely as this combined effort could be the answer to all our strife with the challenges our community is facing.

I think what he is saying is the current groups are too soft, and have basically bent over and been raped in the bottom. And I think he is correct.

Fanny.

[idleidolidyll]

What specific causes are you trying to target and what are your objectives? And how are you expecting to communicate these to the general public?

At the moment it sounds more like an excuse for civil disobedience "because we're pissed off" rather than something that is expected to achieve an outcome.

Valid questions.

For security reasons I'm not going to reveal details of contacts at this stage or details of processes.. If you are pissed off with the way motorcyclists are treated and with road safety for motorcyclists, and are concerned that none of the national organizations have taken ACTION to highlight these issues; you should get involved. As we progress, information will be disseminated but for the most part that will be done beneath the surface and not on open forums.

Obviously safety of motorcyclists is the primary concern; secondary to that is the unfair treatment of motorcyclists by government and councils (Wellington parking, Aucklands anti motorcycle policy etc)

The issue is not that these are not being discussed. It is that the discussions have amounted to virtually nothing in living memory and unless backed up by overt action, those people discussing and debating can easily be dismissed or fobbed off with trinkets.

This therefore is not a one issue protest, individual protests can each highlight a single issue with the overarching issues of safety and fair treatment always iterated in the background.

I'd like to get to a stage where there is a weekly protest somewhere that cannot be ignored by the media.

So to start with, and as I'm in Auckland as noted, I propose we start with the Auckland City Councils deliberate anti motorcycle policy. Other regions can suggest their own first issue; this beginning is not to tell you which issue to protest but to help you organize support for physical protest.

[Fatt Max]

I think what he is saying is the current groups are too soft, and have basically bent over and been raped in the bottom. And I think he is correct.

Fanny.

Fair enough, opinion respected, but is cutting all ties with these groups that have so much more to offer in both expertise, experience and knowledge a good move?

Any action needs support from all factors. These groups can provide access to media and people of influence. Is it wise to totally discount this?

I’m not saying do not get stuck in and have a crack, I’m merely saying that to paint all the biker groups with the ‘chicken stick’ can do more damage to the overall campaign.

[nodrog]

Fair enough, opinion respected, but is cutting all ties with these groups that have so much more to offer in both expertise, experience and knowledge a good move?

Any action needs support from all factors. These groups can provide access to media and people of influence. Is it wise to totally discount this?

I’m not saying do not get stuck in and have a crack, I’m merely saying that to paint all the biker groups with the ‘chicken stick’ can do more damage to the overall campaign.

But if you are going to war you dont take the Salvation Army.

Fanny.

[idleidolidyll]

Fatt max;

The point is that none of the existing organizations have succeeded with talk and none of the rides; cheese cutter, Bikoi etc have achieved a thing beyond a few days publicity.

No, this is not a protest to be held under the auspices of any of those organizations and they can continue to talk independently of this initiative. yes, I'm extremely disappointed they have not organized this themselves but given their reluctance; allowing them to have any measure of control would be counterproductive.

The point is to show people, the media, the government, the councils, the road contractors and any other parties that should be listed that we ARE serious and we ARE pissed off and we want CHANGE NOW not a promise of it in 2020.

[idleidolidyll]

Can I do burnouts there?

Because I am not the girl guide type supporter

Fuck the talk, fuck the meetings. Burnouts and Riots.
We no longer ask for change, we demand it.

I view this post as an attempt to ridicule and take the thread off topic. It won't be reported this time but any similar posts will be.

No advocacy of illegality will be posted on this open forum and no suggestion of it will be entertained. If you wish to find and excuse for childish behaviour, this is not the place.

[idleidolidyll]

I think what he is saying is the current groups are too soft, and have basically bent over and been raped in the bottom. And I think he is correct.

Fanny.

Yes, that is the point. The powers that be feel they can manipulate our organizations because they think we can't organize against them and take direct action. This is the opportunity to prove them wrong.

We have a slim chance in the run up to the general election and the time to act is NOW. In a new term we will have already lost and been shelved

[idleidolidyll]

Fair enough, opinion respected, but is cutting all ties with these groups that have so much more to offer in both expertise, experience and knowledge a good move?

Any action needs support from all factors. These groups can provide access to media and people of influence. Is it wise to totally discount this?

I’m not saying do not get stuck in and have a crack, I’m merely saying that to paint all the biker groups with the ‘chicken stick’ can do more damage to the overall campaign.

No, it is NOT worthwhile organizing with the extant groups. Some have officially eschewed such action already and others have made it clear they are not interested.
This is an independent action they can disavow but point to in discussions as evidence of just how pissed off bikers are at being ignored, deliberately discriminated against and disrespected.

[SPman]

Perhaps you need to import some French motorcyclists. They seem to know how to organise good protests of a disruptive nature.
But then...the French are more inclined to take to the streets...having been right royaly fucked over so many times in the last 2-300 years, they know and value their freedoms more than most antipodeans seem to.........

[idleidolidyll]

Perhaps you need to import some French motorcyclists. They seem to know how to organise good protests of a disruptive nature.
But then...the French are more inclined to take to the streets...having been right royaly fucked over so many times in the last 2-300 years, they know and value their freedoms more than most antipodeans seem to.........

Yep, I favor the French and even the Aussie models.
Its well past time for New Zealand bikers to stand upright, pull up our trou and face our enemy with determination and action. The words our verbal advocates speak on our behalf will be all the stronger for it.

[Fatt Max]

No, it is NOT worthwhile organizing with the extant groups. Some have officially eschewed such action already and others have made it clear they are not interested.
This is an independent action they can disavow but point to in discussions as evidence of just how pissed off bikers are at being ignored, deliberately discriminated against and disrespected.

Ok, so what you are saying is that if these groups wanted to support you in your action, you would not accept their help unless it is in line with your intended activities.

What if this is support in respect of solid media coverage that will fly the biker flag and not sensationalise? What if a group came to you and said “look, we have some heavyweight media contacts that can carry this banner for us and get it out there”? What if a group offered you the support of their numbers? What if your action turns to shit and you find yourself out on a limb, could the weight of groups supporting you show that there is a united front?

Have you considered that this crusade of yours, admirable as it may be, could fall flat on its face and leave you and your cohorts with your dicks in the wind while those who we all want to make stand up and listen merely sip their Pimms and say what a bunch of dicks those bikers are…??

Its like cutting away the flesh that you may need to protect your exposed bones

[Fatt Max]

But if you are going to war you dont take the Salvation Army.

Fanny.

Nice one, I actually like that mate

[cheshirecat]

Those of you who've been watching know I'm dismayed and frustrated by the inaction of those who claim to represent motorcyclists in NZ.

We have any number of people talking on our behalf but that's been happening for years and we've seen little to no movement from government except appoint a group to investigate. I believe that will be a whitewash or dismissed in the run up to, and following the general election.

With that election looming, NOW is the right time to hit the streets and take real action. Given debate and discussions here over the last month or so, it seems there is little likelihood that one of the existing groups representing us will take action any time soon.

I've been asked to help recruit and guide people on appropriate action we can take individually and in groups to bring real attention to our various causes.

Those of you prepared to get out and be seen to be doing something, those of you thinking that civil disobedience or similar just might be necessary; please pm me and register your interest.

I'll need your location and a contact phone number; preferably a mobile number to be able to receive text messaging. Flash Mobs are a good way to circumvent those who would delay or misdirect us in our action.

As I live in Auckland, I'll have to start here. However, I do get around the country a bit and can make side calls on business trips. Even if you live outside Auckland, register your interest as we can share ideas and recruitment options.

Discussion of actual action options should be carefully worded. don't drop yourself in it with the law who are watching. Register first and we can work out communication methods via pm, txt messaging, email etc.

Set up a FB ad twiter page - you'd be surprised (pleasantly I hope) as to how many sign up

[DougieNZ]

EASY:
Have a go at those "proporting to represent motorcyclists"
Say that they are "in the pockets of the politicians"
Moan that they "are not doing what us REAL motorcylists want them to"

MORE DIFFICULT
Organise your own campaign AND win the hearts and minds of your fellow motorcyclists
Be more effective than those that you are complaining about
Having to back up works and rhetoric with effective action

I find that the many campaigns on here that have promulgated illegal behaviour or complained about the various campaigns either do not get the required support to be effective or find that things are perhaps a little less easy than what they think and quickly give up the fight and disappear never to be heard from again. I don't want to prejudge anything - but - anyone that won't divulge details of their plans because of a police presence on the forum make me very suspicious that they intend to get up to some activity which unecessarily impinges on the rights of other citizens to go about their lawful business.

I, for a vast array of reasons, will not be involving myself in such a campaign. History will say that public opinion wins and loses battles like this. Annoy the public at large and you will not only lose the battle but will be dong motorcyclists a huge disservice - just what you are accusing others of doing now. Ironic!

[nodrog]

EASY:
Have a go at those "proporting to represent motorcyclists"
Say that they are "in the pockets of the politicians"
Moan that they "are not doing what us REAL motorcylists want them to"

MORE DIFFICULT
Organise your own campaign AND win the hearts and minds of your fellow motorcyclists
Be more effective than those that you are complaining about
Having to back up works and rhetoric with effective action

I find that the many campaigns on here that have promulgated illegal behaviour or co mplained about the various campaigns either do not get the required support to be effective or find that things are perhaps a little less easy than what they think and quickly give up the fight and disappear never to be heard from again.

I don't want to prejudge anything - but - anyone that won't divulge details of their plans because of a police presence on the forum make me very suspicious that they intend to get up to some illegal activity which impinges on the rights of other citizens to go about their lawful business.

I, for a vast array of reasons, will not be involving myself in such a campaign. History will say that public opinion wins and loses battles like this. Annoy the public at large and you will not only lose the battle but will be dong motorcyclists a huge disservice - just what you are accusing others of doing now. Ironic!

God you sound like a right Cream Puff! I suppose you were the one of many who went out and "taught ACC a lesson" by purchasing 15 months of registration?

Fanny.

[idleidolidyll]

Ok, so what you are saying is that if these groups wanted to support you in your action, you would not accept their help unless it is in line with your intended activities.

What if this is support in respect of solid media coverage that will fly the biker flag and not sensationalise? What if a group came to you and said “look, we have some heavyweight media contacts that can carry this banner for us and get it out there”? What if a group offered you the support of their numbers? What if your action turns to shit and you find yourself out on a limb, could the weight of groups supporting you show that there is a united front?

Have you considered that this crusade of yours, admirable as it may be, could fall flat on its face and leave you and your cohorts with your dicks in the wind while those who we all want to make stand up and listen merely sip their Pimms and say what a bunch of dicks those bikers are…??

Its like cutting away the flesh that you may need to protect your exposed bones

Given the almost complete lack of decent media coverage since 2009: I doubt that the media contacts they hold are of any use to us.

However, I and others in this initiative are happy to talk to anyone and evaluate opportunities as they arise. If something valid is proposed, of course we will listen. However, I'm not going to commit anyone he to be guided by the rules and regulations of any of the extant orgs.

BTW; the are a lot of diffent fallacy argument. One is to put your own words or opinions into anothers mouth. Instead of telling me what I think, try asking. I said nothing of the sort and I reject your fallacy argument.

It seems obvious that you do not support this initiative and I suspect you have an allegiance to one of the other groups talking to government. that's fine but no, the extant groups have shown no initiative so far with respect to action and for that alone I would not support aligning officially with them. Of course our objectives are the same. They have rejected the action path and that is their right. we have not and will do so with or without their help.

[idleidolidyll]

Set up a FB ad twiter page - you'd be surprised (pleasantly I hope) as to how many sign up

Great idea, I'll do that today and post details

That will also achieve another goal; to take us away from the whim of KB moderators and management as this is a private forum and they have often said it is a dictatorship not a democracy

[SPman]

get up to some activity which unecessarily impinges on the rights of other citizens to go about their lawful business.
Oh...you mean like.......a demonstration or protest.
It seems the only way you can get many people to even notice, these days, is exactly that - impinge on the rights of others!
Let's face it, those in charge have no qualms at all, impinging on the rights and freedoms of the citizens - it's about time to start impinging on their fucking pockets for a change, the thieving, lying, corrupt, hypocritical arseholes!!

[idleidolidyll]

Oh...you mean like.......a demonstration or protest.
It seems the only way you can get many people to even notice, these days, is exactly that - impinge on the rights of others!
Let's face it, those in charge have no qualms at all, impinging on the rights and freedoms of the citizens - it's about time to start impinging on their fucking pockets for a change, the thieving, lying, corrupt, hypocritical arseholes!!

The fact is that government and council policies are effectively killing us, driving us off the road and silencing our voices.

WHAT ABOUT OUR RIGHTS?

[Fatt Max]

Given the almost complete lack of decent media coverage since 2009: I doubt that the media contacts they hold are of any use to us.

However, I and others in this initiative are happy to talk to anyone and evaluate opportunities as they arise. If something valid is proposed, of course we will listen. However, I'm not going to commit anyone he to be guided by the rules and regulations of any of the extant orgs.

BTW; the are a lot of diffent fallacy argument. One is to put your own words or opinions into anothers mouth. Instead of telling me what I think, try asking. I said nothing of the sort and I reject your fallacy argument.

It seems obvious that you do not support this initiative and I suspect you have an allegiance to one of the other groups talking to government. that's fine but no, the extant groups have shown no initiative so far with respect to action and for that alone I would not support aligning officially with them. Of course our objectives are the same. They have rejected the action path and that is their right. we have not and will do so with or without their help.

Well, good luck with it then sweetheart, keep the faith and all that xx

[BoristheBiter]

The fact is that government and council policies are effectively killing us, driving us off the road and silencing our voices.

WHAT ABOUT OUR RIGHTS?

We are only a small group so your voice is very low anyway.
What are these government and council policies?

This is the same sort of thing that has been happening to gun owners for god know how long. I watched as various groups, yes i was in one, talked about what the best way forward was and as no one could agree it, like the motorcycling community, still remains divided.

If everyone could put there differences aside we could get quite a big group but i can't see that happing and as we are too small a group to have a big voice the government, no matter who is in power, have bigger things to worry about than if someone is on a bike or not.

I went down to wellington and shouted bullshit with everyone else, little difference that it did. They played us, and everyone else, so no one noticed when diesel ACC went up.

Direct action, unless it has a massive backing by the general public, will do nothing but add demerit's or convictions and as most of the public couldn't give a shit i would say your pushing shit up hill, but good luck anyway i think you might need it.

[idleidolidyll]

I'm adjourning for a bit.
Christchurch has just been hit with another devastating earthquake and this time people have died.

I lived there for 10 years and have many friends in and around the city.
I'm out for a while sending txts to check out if they are OK.

[Maha]

I think what he is saying is the current groups are too soft, and have basically bent over and been raped in the bottom. And I think he is correct.

Fanny.

What the OP is doing, hell anyone can do it...
Come up with a grand idea but, let someone else do it.
He said so himself, he does not want to lead this thing.
He has an over inflated veiw of himself.
He has been at for close to 18 months and...still nothing.
I first heard him make noise about september 09'.
Check back here in say....two months time?

[idleidolidyll]

EASY:
Have a go at those "proporting to represent motorcyclists"
Say that they are "in the pockets of the politicians"
Moan that they "are not doing what us REAL motorcylists want them to"

MORE DIFFICULT
Organise your own campaign AND win the hearts and minds of your fellow motorcyclists
Be more effective than those that you are complaining about
Having to back up works and rhetoric with effective action

I find that the many campaigns on here that have promulgated illegal behaviour or complained about the various campaigns either do not get the required support to be effective or find that things are perhaps a little less easy than what they think and quickly give up the fight and disappear never to be heard from again. I don't want to prejudge anything - but - anyone that won't divulge details of their plans because of a police presence on the forum make me very suspicious that they intend to get up to some activity which unecessarily impinges on the rights of other citizens to go about their lawful business.

I, for a vast array of reasons, will not be involving myself in such a campaign. History will say that public opinion wins and loses battles like this. Annoy the public at large and you will not only lose the battle but will be dong motorcyclists a huge disservice - just what you are accusing others of doing now. Ironic!

Double: read the three pleas. I have not promoted illegal behaviour, I have merely suggested that organized protest and civil disobedience is a good option.
In fact I specifically rebuked a member who was suggesting blatantly illegal behavior.

However, if their policies are killing us, and they are, which is worse; protest or status quo?

[idleidolidyll]

Dougieread the three please. I have not promoted illegal behaviour, I have merely suggested that organized protest and civil disobedience is a good option.
In fact I specifically rebuked a member who was suggesting blatantly illegal behavior.

However, if their policies are killing us, and they are, which is worse; protest or status quo?

[idleidolidyll]

Mama

KB rules prohibit deliberate personal attacks like that one and also prohibit attempts to take the thread off topic.

If you have something of value to add, please do so. I will not refuse to listen to anyone who has a good idea. However, All other posts in contravention of the rules will be reported as per my previous post advised.

[Maha]

Mama

KB rules prohibit deliberate personal attacks like that one and also prohibit attempts to take the thread off topic.

If you have something of value to add, please do so. I will not refuse to listen to anyone who has a good idea. However, All other posts in contravention of the rules will be reported as per my previous post advised.

I guess by mama you mean me? or mstrs, we are both not to sure about that one yet.
Where am I attacking?..do you think the mods are sick of you yet..:facepalm:
All of page one is still in tacked even after your request to clean it out.
Take all the fun posts out and there'll be fuck all else to read.
I shall subscribe to this thread, hope thats not prohibited?

[idleidolidyll]

I guess by mama you mean me? or mstrs, we are both not to sure about that one yet.
Where am I attacking?..do you think the mods are sick of you yet..:facepalm:
All of page one is still in tacked even after your request to clean it out.
Take all the fun posts out and there'll be fuck all else to read.
I shall subscribe to this thread, hope thats not prohibited?

Your last post was a clear personal attack: I'm quite shocked to read the suggestion in your post that the mods may be talking to you about me.
Is that a fact?

So please Stay on topic, don't post abuse. all such posts will be reported as per KB rules.

[Maha]

Your last post was a clear personal attack: I'm quite shocked to read the suggestion in your post that the mods may be talking to you about me.
Is that a fact?

So please Stay on topic, don't post abuse. all such posts will be reported as per KB rules.

Fuck you're a crack up......:nya:
Suggestion my arse....why would the mods want to talk to me about you, im sure they would rather swallow thier own sick.
Take action on this post Mr III.
If you want me to stop posting, stop quoting me.
Or better yet, put me on ignore.

[DidJit]

... I first heard him make noise about september 09'. ...


....oh, and I suppose you wont be joining the Fat Bikers Motorcycle Club?

Why don't you two help him then?

Get III along to your meetings, or try to get some support for III's ideas. Let's face it: you're all trying to achieve the same objective — better roads and conditions for motorcyclists and an ACC that isn't privatised to the hilt.

I see FM is trying to understand III, but is getting frustrated by III's somewhat seemingly brash manner. That's just his way, mate. If you met him in person you would understand him a lot more. I know you haven't met me either, but I vouch for III's passion, determination, persistence and commitment in trying to keep motorcyclists' issues top of mind. And you can see from the way I am writing that I am no raving firebrand — thus perhaps, I hope you will believe, there may just be some credibility to what I am saying...

As for you, Maha... You know better. III shouldn't have to come to you on bended knee just because he isn't in the KB Elite clique. III is trying (and did try) since September '09 to keep these issues top of mind as mentioned before. Just because he hasn't been a part of, or done things, your way or BRONZ's way or MAGNZ's way or KB's way, that doesn't mean you should discount him as a loudmouth with no substance or action to his words. I remember the news clip of John Key opening the Whangamata Marina with the 3 noisy motorcyclists protesting. I remember III trying to organise more protest action around the country. I also remember that most people were just too scared to step up (myself included I reluctantly admit). I remember the KB Elite kept shouting III down, saying, "We can't piss anyone off." I remember that after 5,000 people descended on Wellington and unnerved Nick, the momentum fell flat.

I think III saw from the beginning of all of this that words would only get motorcyclists so far; that TPTB would take advantage of Kiwis' apathy; and that if you really want change in both TPTB and motorcycling policy, you have to shake things up a whole lot more than most Kiwis are prepared to shake.

III is simply trying, like many of you, to draw attention (both ours and that of TPTB) to some very valid issues. So why can't we all work together instead of baiting each other?

As has been mentioned many other times in many other threads, trying to get bikers united on anything is like herding cats. That's why the thrust of any protest actions and issues should be inclusive of all NZers. We need all NZers, not just us bikers, to protest against unfair policies. Protest messages must therefore resonate with Joe Kiwi and Joe Kiwi's voting pen. Our own (bikers') ends can be met, but they must be subtly hidden amongst the catchcries that Joe Kiwi can chant as well.

Disclaimer: I am not saying I am in any way better, or have done anything more/better than anyone else. I am merely lending support to someone I know, who I don't like seeing shouted down (on teh 'net) just because it seems people aren't understanding him.

[Maha]

''Just because he hasn't been a part of, or done things, your way or BRONZ's way or MAGNZ's way or KB's way, that doesn't mean you should discount him as a loudmouth with no substance or action to his words.''

I agree, that has been my point all along, he mouths off but thats it, he has alot to say and thats where it ends, he wants action, but wont act. He wants it done his way but wont lead the way. This thread is a perfect example of how he operates, its all about him and if it doesn't go his way, toys exit the sleeping area at a great rate of knots.
I think its fair to say that he could be the right person to have on your side given the oppotunity, but I will never work with him, not until his conceited attitude changes. And I cant see that happening, he is who he is.

And can you point my in the direction of the KB Elite clique?.I would love to take the piss out of them .They seem like an easy target.Whos Next?

[Fatt Max]

Why don't you two help him then?


As has been mentioned many other times in many other threads, trying to get bikers united on anything is like herding cats. That's why the thrust of any protest actions and issues should be inclusive of all NZers. We need all NZers, not just us bikers, to protest against unfair policies. Protest messages must therefore resonate with Joe Kiwi and Joe Kiwi's voting pen. Our own (bikers') ends can be met, but they must be subtly hidden amongst the catchcries that Joe Kiwi can chant as well.

That has always been my point. I have seen passion and drive in so many people. These people exist within BRONZ and within MAG, these people share a vision and desire to get the best possible deal for motorcyclists.

I have always maintained that we MUST unite and work together. We cannot be seen to be divided. Lets face it, TPTB trawl these websites and forums to get ammo against us, this is excellent ammo.

I am trying to see how ANY campaign, physical, literal or otherwise professing to be the 'voice of bikers' cannot be progressed without some kind of unity.

III is aggesive in his aapproach, if that aggression equates to passion for a cause then great but to cut away the groups who hold the same passion really is a divide and conquer tactic that we are drawing upon oursleves.

As for KB Elite, dont know about that. This is a fucking website after all, the last time I looked my PC has an off switch, at the very least there are other websites to look at (www.hot pastrychicks.com and www.strippers-in-lard.org).

I feel I have expressed my opinion but, as I have been told many times, what the fuck do I know.....

[Ocean1]

III is simply trying....

To subvert biker politics to suit his socialist ideologies. He wants National out and the biggest tool he can see to do that is you lot. Maybe.

See, we've heard it so many times we switch off after the first couple of buzzwords. So he might have THE WORD, but there's a background waft of rat in the air and we've got better things to read.

[SPman]

...He wants National out..And after they've done such a GREAT job at relieving unemployment, making a good place for average income people to live and thrive in with better health care, education and fairer policies for all......:sick:

[DEVVIL]

All I can say is work together. KB has its place but not regarding action. The ones that pull every thing apart can sit on their PCs and do nothing but piss and moan. I will stand next to biker(BRONZ/MAG or Independent) who wants to take a planed civil disobedient action For the right reason.
Post any FB Twitter info




Cant be bothered with any flame tit for tat BS:violin:

[Fatt Max]

All I can say is work together. KB has its place but not regarding action.:

+1, nice one dude,

That does seem to be a very common line, is it that hard?

[sinned]

To subvert biker politics to suit his socialist ideologies. He wants National out and the biggest tool he can see to do that is you lot. Maybe.

See, we've heard it so many times we switch off after the first couple of buzzwords. So he might have THE WORD, but there's a background waft of rat in the air and we've got better things to read.

"- waft of rat in the air" love it and reason why I don't belong to any of these so called groups promoting motorcycling, except for Ulysses which I belong for the rides.

[Usarka]

Fair enough, opinion respected, but is cutting all ties with these groups that have so much more to offer in both expertise, experience and knowledge a good move?


Could learn something from Sinn Féin and the IRA.......

[Spyke]

All I can say is work together. KB has its place but not regarding action. The ones that pull every thing apart can sit on their PCs and do nothing but piss and moan. I will stand next to biker(BRONZ/MAG or Independent) who wants to take a planed civil disobedient action For the right reason.
Post any FB Twitter info




Cant be bothered with any flame tit for tat BS:violin:


+1 it isn't the place to organise events that will change peoples lives

Just like the govt discusses all their affairs online? Imagine if they did, now that would be interesting.

[SPman]

ANY affairs discussed on line are interesting....or perverted.....or sick........or.....

[Katman]

III's problem is, he refuses to see the bigger picture.

[Brian d marge]

And after they've done such a GREAT job at relieving unemployment, making a good place for average income people to live and thrive in with better health care, education and fairer policies for all......:sick:

oohh you havent seen anything yet , you should see what they are planning to do

Even Jk is distancing himself from parts of it


Twitter , now theres a though

Thursday ,,6pm let ride by Ministers X ( insert any one who doesnt support Human beings ) drop of a well worded leaflet, toot a few horns

repeat up and down the country at random all via twitter

Stephen

[riffer]

I imagine most of the Government's plans may have to go on hold for a while post-quake.

Now would not be seen as a good time for protest action and would result in massive negative press for motorcyclists. Not to mention the opportunity for media space at the moment is very scant.

I've not heard of a KB elite. Is this because I'm not cool enough?

Speaking from one inside one of the "motorcyclists representative groups" we're doing a shitload of work at the moment, to the detriment of our own personal lives, and a lot of it we're either too busy to talk about, or there's just nothing worth reporting about.

Some people's attitudes in TPTB ARE changing; some aren't. But one thing is happening - amongst TPTB there is emerging a grudging respect for motorcyclists and maybe, just maybe a growing perception that we're not all temporary citizens intent on all killing ourselves.

We've got a long way to go. And along the way there will most likely be a need for protest, confrontation and civil disobedience if all other steps fail. But at the moment there is more progress being made behind the scenes than at any other time in the last decade and it could all very easily turn to custard with inappropriately-timed protest actions.

[Quasievil]

This is a serious thread. All attempts to move it off topic will be reported to the moderators. All personal attacks and attempts to spam the thread will be reported to the moderators.

If you have an on topic serious question, it will be answered or discussed as it merits.

Moderators, with your kind assistance I'd like to see all deliberate attacks and attempts to hijack deleted or sent to pointless drivel.

Now that is some FUNNY shit BWAAAAAHHHH

[NighthawkNZ]

I've not heard of a KB elite. Is this because I'm not cool enough?

theres a KB elite group???? ??? can I join can I can I... huh... huh... can I huh can I... can I join the KB elite group can I ... can I huh... can I..?

[Quasievil]

theres a KB elite group???? ??? can I join can I can I... huh... huh... can I huh can I... can I join the KB elite group can I ... can I huh... can I..?

Shall we start one ?
You Riffer and me can be the founding members !


ooooo fuck this is a serious thread I might get reported so back to the topic

yeah we should do some more action stuff and sort out the politicians eh cause idolidolidol reckons so

[idleidolidyll]

Could learn something from Sinn Féin and the IRA.......

Perhaps, but only about organizing in cells so our associates are insulated from identification if that's what they want.

That's partly the idea behind the use of email and cell phones.

[Hawkeye]

You may find that the government have something a little more on their minds at the moment than the election, motorbike groups or anything else for that matter.

[oneofsix]

You may find that the government have something a little more on their minds at the moment than the election, motorbike groups or anything else for that matter.

The election is still on their minds. They will look at what the Sept quake did for Bob Parker when Jim was leading the Mayoral race. Why do you think the PM went down there instead of the CD minister? I feel for the people of Canterbury but don't get sucked in by all the pollies clambering for the cameras to make well meaning announcements, the election is still very much on their minds, they are too self centered for it not to be.

[idleidolidyll]

What the OP is doing, hell anyone can do it...
Come up with a grand idea but, let someone else do it.
He said so himself, he does not want to lead this thing.
He has an over inflated veiw of himself.
He has been at for close to 18 months and...still nothing.
I first heard him make noise about september 09'.
Check back here in say....two months time?

Actually, the truth is somewhat different.

Indeed, I did advocate this from the start but I was shouted down by those PC folk who believed that action would be counterproductive and that only talk would work. I was even sent emails and PM's asking me to hold off doing anything until talking had been tried.
The 200 or soeople who sent me their mobile phone numbers back then were keen to go for it but in deference to the many polite requests to hold back and with the deafening roar of rude and ignorant folk shouting for us to refrain: I stepped back and waited.

Now it is 18 months later as you point out. The result from all the talking and PC approach? Zip, Nada, zilch, zero, bugger all; use whatever term you prefer. Not a single stretch of cheese cutter has been pulled down, not a dollar has been cut from our levies, not a road has been swept that wouldn't have been anyway.

And now I'm told that I have three months to achieve a result when all those PC folk have achieved zip, nada, zero, zilch and bugger all in 18 months? I'm sure you'll understand how much value I place on that requirement.

BUT~ this is not an initiative one person can win alone. If you agree that talk is cheap but action gets reaction; sign up. Send a message, post ideas, make contact with like minded riders. Most of all: stop thinking that a few people talking to politicians is going to achieve much of anything without the knowledge that bikers are pissed off with decades of deteriorating road work standards putting us in dang, that we don't accept instant claims od 'speed was the main factor' when a bike crashes due to poor road construction or repair, that we have proof that cheese cutter barriers kill motorcyclists, that paying extra levies because cars are killing us is not only unfair; it's outrageous.

If you care about these issues and more and are dismayed that you've seen no RESULTS in the last 18 months, only words; then sign up. If you're a member of a MAG group, BRONZ etc; tell them you want to see action and support those bikers who are prepared to stand up and be seen, who arerepared to take ACTION to bring the eye of the public, media, politicians and contracting companies onto our quite legitimate cases for change.

3 months? Perhaps that IS the target. The reason it's the target though is because for 18 months we've been waiting and waiting and waiting.
3 months? No, let's make that 7 months; this IS a general election year after all.

ARE YOU PASSIONATE ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS AS A BIKER?
DO YOU THINK TALK ALONE HAS ACHIEVED ANYTHING?
DO YOU BELIEVE THE WORDS AND PROMISES THAT COME FROM THE MOUTHS OF POLITICIANS?
DO YOU HAVE THE COURAGE OF YOUR CONVICTION TO STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

IF YOU ANSWERED YES, SEND A PM, HARANGUE YOUR CURRENT ORGANISATION, COME UP WITH SOME IDEAS AND DISMISS THE NAYSAYERS WHO'VE ACHIEVED NOTHING THEMSELVES SO FAR.

[idleidolidyll]

Fuck you're a crack up......:nya:
Suggestion my arse....why would the mods want to talk to me about you, im sure they would rather swallow thier own sick.
Take action on this post Mr III.
If you want me to stop posting, stop quoting me.
Or better yet, put me on ignore.

Maha,

Do you have anything on topic to add or are you merely here to post abuse and disrupt?
No, I won't ignore anyone; if that's your way to make trouble 'go away'; be my guest.
However, if you have something of value to add, something constructive, I'll read and comment on it in context. Are you really keen to see motorcyclists rights improved? Do you think action is valuable or a waste of time? Tell us all in public please as I'm not about to print the PM's you've sent me on the subject.

What tactics have been successful in the last 18 months?
How do you measure that success if you suggest there has been some. (numbers of bikes on rides doesn't cut the ice for me, that's not a success, that's merely a statistic).

Please, elucidate, inform, suggest, promote, discuss
If your ideas are valid you might end up with more than 300 members from a registered population of 100,000 bikes.

[DidJit]

... the KB Elite clique?

Sorry, I forgot to add the facetious, tongue-in-cheek smiley next to that. ;)


All I can say is work together. ...

+ 1.

[idleidolidyll]

That has always been my point. I have seen passion and drive in so many people. These people exist within BRONZ and within MAG, these people share a vision and desire to get the best possible deal for motorcyclists.

I have always maintained that we MUST unite and work together. We cannot be seen to be divided. Lets face it, TPTB trawl these websites and forums to get ammo against us, this is excellent ammo.

I am trying to see how ANY campaign, physical, literal or otherwise professing to be the 'voice of bikers' cannot be progressed without some kind of unity.

III is aggesive in his aapproach, if that aggression equates to passion for a cause then great but to cut away the groups who hold the same passion really is a divide and conquer tactic that we are drawing upon oursleves.

As for KB Elite, dont know about that. This is a fucking website after all, the last time I looked my PC has an off switch, at the very least there are other websites to look at (www.hot pastrychicks.com and www.strippers-in-lard.org).

I feel I have expressed my opinion but, as I have been told many times, what the fuck do I know.....

Maxx

We've waited 18 months for alternatives to produce results; how much longer do we have to wait!
Digit is correct, I saw from the start that words without action would be next to useless. carrot and stick.
The carrot without the stick is only going to achieve minimal result.

No, I'm not impatient; I waited 18 months and gave the organizations their chance. They have not produced results. Given that failing, sailing the same tack would seem to be narrow minded: we need to try something else and that something else is Action.

You suggest my attacks on these organizations are counterproductive; go back and read their attacks on me and those supporting me 18 months ago. was that equally counterproductive? It's a 2 way street.

We have a limited time to achieve anything under the current government. I've tried waiting and allowing the orgs to talk, I've tried booting some sense into them; neither has worked and in return I've been told 'no tall poppies', 'don't inconvenience the public' and other such nonsense. this is about our lives, our health and our rights. Time to step up and act, not to sit back and believe politicians lies.

[idleidolidyll]

To subvert biker politics to suit his socialist ideologies. He wants National out and the biggest tool he can see to do that is you lot. Maybe.

See, we've heard it so many times we switch off after the first couple of buzzwords. So he might have THE WORD, but there's a background waft of rat in the air and we've got better things to read.

Easy solution mate, put me on ignore.
Yes, it's true I can see through the lies and fallacies of the Hollow Men and want them gone.

However, the entire issue around motorcyclist rights is a political mess and that's how it must be framed to achieve results. Don't allow them to divide and conquer, don't allow them to think you'll support them if they continue to produce policy that disadvantages bikers and even results in biker deaths (road conditions, cheeseburgers). I don't support National but neither do I support Labour. However, at least Labour has offered to make changes.

If that's the case, I support them. The thing politicians fear most is loss of power. That is e key. Regardless of your other beliefs, are biker rights and biker deaths due to deliberate ignorance and deliberate policy important enough to you to take action? If yes, sign up. If not; we never needed you anyway.

[avgas]

I view this post as an attempt to ridicule and take the thread off topic. It won't be reported this time but any similar posts will be.

No advocacy of illegality will be posted on this open forum and no suggestion of it will be entertained. If you wish to find and excuse for childish behaviour, this is not the place.
So basically you want to do EXACTLY what the others already do - but this time YOU want the power.
Weak

But please enlighten us as to why you are different?
Why do we need a leader when we are perfectly fine fighting our own battles as a collective?

I would rather see a 1000 bikers speaking their own mind in genuine protest than another limp dick approach of you a few other monkeys in a room with the PM.

I am not going to post again in this thread until Chch has some more stability - so if you really want to pussy out, feel free to cry to mum and get my post put in PD.

As for the rest of you - if you feel pissed off about ACC. Think of a way to show them how pissed off you really are.
This happens when Chch is settled.

[Ocean1]

Easy solution mate, put me on ignore.

Took your time.

I don't need artificial help to ignore you mate, you make it as easy as breathing.

As for the rest? your next sentence was classic IIIdiot propaganda, so I ignored it.

[idleidolidyll]

III's problem is, he refuses to see the bigger picture.

Thanks for sharing what you think my problems are Katman. Given that you are ill informed about my understanding of issues and given that you expect me to believe you have a greater understanding based on your self belief, I'd suggest you focus on your own shortcomings first or perhaps add something of value to the discussion instead.

The big picture here is that bikers have been fucked over ever since I can remember, The big picture is that biker rights and biker safety have been generally dismissed for decades, the big picture is that talking has been a tactic since I was a lad, the big picture is that one of the very very actions I recall actually achieving anything, was a protest in Auckland where bikers took ACTION and filled up car park spaces when the Council was threatening to ban bike parking in areas.

Did you see that word: ACTION
All the talk added up to nothing until the bikers around Auckland got together and made life inconvenient for the City Council and ratepayers. The minute they did that, the Council folded and treated us with respect.

BUT: the really big picture in this context is that BRONZ has been around for bloody years and Ulysseus has been around for bloody years and MAG has had 18 months; and between them all there have been no tangible wins for bikers from all that talk that I can tell you of. Sure, BRONZ claimed a 'win' when Key only doubled the fees but I'd already told people that would happen the first week we knew the levies were going up; it wasn't a win at all. Im sure others claimed those as wins too but be realistic; they were merely a face saving way to capitulate.

Shall we wait another 18 months for action, another 30 years? No thanks; if we continue to piss about with PC waffle alone; they will consider that an invitation to screw us over again and again.

So thanks for your comments but I must point out they are an opinion based on lack of knowledge and indeed bear no relation to reality with resepect to RESULTS.

[SPman]

So basically you want to do EXACTLY what the others already do - but this time YOU want the power.
Weak

But please enlighten us as to why you are different?
Why do we need a leader when we are perfectly fine fighting our own battles as a collective?

I would rather see a 1000 bikers speaking their own mind in genuine protest than another limp dick approach of you a few other monkeys in a room with the PM.

I am not going to post again in this thread until Chch has some more stability - so if you really want to pussy out, feel free to cry to mum and get my post put in PD.

As for the rest of you - if you feel pissed off about ACC. Think of a way to show them how pissed off you really are.
This happens when Chch is settled.When and if Chch is settled - politics waits for no disasters - in fact - politicians use disasters to further their own gains, to slide even more odious laws and systems into place because the public are even further distracted! It's hard to keep an eye on politicians or care about what they are doing when you are trying to rebuild your lives and properties. You'd expect them to be helping those in need! Hah! Only if they can get to remain in power, otherwise they couldn't give two fucks about the ordinary citizen. Your "consent" to remain in power, thought of by most as their vote, is all they want. Withdraw that consent, and they will do whatever it takes to try and keep power and that is the hold people have over politicos. What a shame most people are too scared to realise that.

[idleidolidyll]

Took your time.

I don't need artificial help to ignore you mate, you make it as easy as breathing.

As for the rest? your next sentence was classic IIIdiot propaganda, so I ignored it.


so you say but you dont actually ignore, you seem quite fixated in fact

as for the last sentence, you've done that before ocean1; denounced something outright without any valid argument to back up you statement and certainly no fact based evidence or references.

That being a given, thank you for your opinion but for the sake of the topic; do you have anything of value to add?

[Fatt Max]

We have a limited time to achieve anything under the current government. I've tried waiting and allowing the orgs to talk, I've tried booting some sense into them; neither has worked and in return I've been told 'no tall poppies', 'don't inconvenience the public' and other such nonsense. this is about our lives, our health and our rights. Time to step up and act, not to sit back and believe politicians lies.

Another passion filled post, has to be admired regardless of agreeing with the content.

I struggle with politicians period. The preent government are one issue, I just hope that any future government will be more 'on our side' so to speak. I use caution here because, well lets face it, politicians are nothing more than a pack of liars whose single focus is to stay on the gravy train at whatever cost.

Therefore, I repeat my 'romantic vision' that, as a community, bikers from all corners have to unite and support each other en masse. Literal and physical actions need to be combined as they both have their place and must not count each other out.

The ACTION you passionatley describe is desired by many, many other people. It is a rationalisation of methodology that really does need to be considered.

But then, what the fuck do I know........

[Virago]

...BUT: the really big picture in this context is that BRONZ has been around for bloody years and Ulysseus has been around for bloody years and MAG has had 18 months...

As I understand it, MAG-NZ was launched in October 2010 - only four months ago. Can you please expand on the 18 months that you are repeatedly claiming?

[idleidolidyll]

So basically you want to do EXACTLY what the others already do - but this time YOU want the power.

Not at all. In fact even Maha pointed out that I'd specifically posted that I DON'T necessarily want the power (leadership). I'm just a guy with the balls to act instead of just talk.
Weak

But please enlighten us as to why you are different?
Why do we need a leader when we are perfectly fine fighting our own battles as a collective?

Read the above sentence again. Get on board and when the numbers are up, elect a leader. I may put my hand up but I wont get all shitty if I'm not elected; my ego isnt that big. What I'm after is results. That's the missing element in what I've seen done so far; results. Not numbers, not words; results.
If someone else is chosen to lead but ACTION is the key tactic; I'll be 100% behind them in support. THAT is why I tried so hard to goad the other groups into doing something before I decided to step up again.

Now the ball is in your court: do you want results? Do you think that a lack of results after 18 months in MAG's case and years in the case of other groups is an indication that mere talk is gonne achieve results?

If you do indeed think that; good for you. In the meantime I beg to differ and will promote ACTION. If you however, think ACTION is a good idea; get on board and start generating ideas.

I would rather see a 1000 bikers speaking their own mind in genuine protest than another limp dick approach of you a few other monkeys in a room with the PM.

The limp dick in the room with politicians is pretty much the status quo; that is what I want to change. Time to at least ADD a tactic to that and get ACTIVE.

I am not going to post again in this thread until Chch has some more stability - so if you really want to pussy out, feel free to cry to mum and get my post put in PD.

I'm focused on Chch myself. I'm a Southlander in fact anmd lived in Chch for 10 years. I have many friends, business aquaintences and relatives in that city and have been trying to track them all day: good luck to you on that score.

As for the rest of you - if you feel pissed off about ACC. Think of a way to show them how pissed off you really are.
This happens when Chch is settled.

The last is a great call; that's exactly the spirit needed and I congratulate you for it. You have what it takes. Watch the therad, send a pm and keep up with some of the ideas that might suit your preferred method of protest.

[idleidolidyll]

As I understand it, MAG-NZ was launched in October 2010 - only four months ago. Can you please expand on the 18 months that you are repeatedly claiming?


The 18 months was a time frame provided to me by a MAG member. Perhaps that was from inception to registration. You'll have to take that up with them and if you feel it is of value; feel free to post here.
I'm happy to stand corrected and that would mean that the organisation, MAG, has OFFICIALLY had 5 months to achieve as compared to the 3 months Maha seems to have given me, an individual.

In the meantime, any ideas for action?

[idleidolidyll]

oohh you havent seen anything yet , you should see what they are planning to do

Even Jk is distancing himself from parts of it


Twitter , now theres a though

Thursday ,,6pm let ride by Ministers X ( insert any one who doesnt support Human beings ) drop of a well worded leaflet, toot a few horns

repeat up and down the country at random all via twitter

Stephen

Actually BRian, that's an interesting point and one that should be pointed out ad infinitum until people get it.

Key seems to have a tactic he repeats again and again: he has a comittee produce a report with outrageous calls for action and then he personally takes a stand against the most ridiculous or onerous of them in order to soften us up for what we are then led to think is a compromise. However, just as with the ACC levies; there was never a compromise; there was only a ruse to have us think we'd won something or that he is a compassionate man.

No sir, he is cunning and devious. Bikers beware; Key is not your froend and behind his smaile is a man who knows how to manipulate people and make them say thanks for the ass reaming.

I propose that just talking plays right into his game (and Smiths). ACTION is much harder to brush off.

[idleidolidyll]

I imagine most of the Government's plans may have to go on hold for a while post-quake.

Now would not be seen as a good time for protest action and would result in massive negative press for motorcyclists. Not to mention the opportunity for media space at the moment is very scant.

Again Riffer; that just plays into their hands. If they can delay us long enough, past the elction for instance, we will have to deal with a new government (whether National or Labour) and start all over again. Delaying tactics are standard fare and although Chch is a sad event, the rest of the nations bikers should not allow politicians to manipulate the agenda because of it.

I've not heard of a KB elite. Is this because I'm not cool enough?

Speaking from one inside one of the "motorcyclists representative groups" we're doing a shitload of work at the moment, to the detriment of our own personal lives, and a lot of it we're either too busy to talk about, or there's just nothing worth reporting about.

If you're not talking about it; how can you really think you are gaining the support and trust of bikers that you're achieveing anything?
How long must we wait? Until after the election?
Nope; Time for ACTION Now!

Some people's attitudes in TPTB ARE changing; some aren't. But one thing is happening - amongst TPTB there is emerging a grudging respect for motorcyclists and maybe, just maybe a growing perception that we're not all temporary citizens intent on all killing ourselves.

Nice opinion; hope you're right. However, no evidnce of that seems evident. All I've really noticed is a pittance thrown toward a committee that will be spent and dismissed in due course with perhaps a few crumbs thrown for the minions to devour.
Trusing that politicians words indicate they are coming around is a bit like trusting that crocodile to ferry you across the river in safety.

We've got a long way to go. And along the way there will most likely be a need for protest, confrontation and civil disobedience if all other steps fail. But at the moment there is more progress being made behind the scenes than at any other time in the last decade and it could all very easily turn to custard with inappropriately-timed protest actions.


Wrong; the time for protest and ACTION is NOW. Well before the election. That's the problem; the extant biker groups have been telling us to do nothing for ages and to leave it to them. The result? Read above.

[BoristheBiter]

And in 12 months time we can all see what you will sorted out as well, IMHO nothing.

You cry and wine about the government this, government that, and think that it will change if someone else gets into power, it wont, and if Labour gets in it will only get worse, unless of course you are on the dole or want some hand out.

I commend you on your stance and passion behind it but you are very naive to think that we are a big enough group, even if we stand together, to change much if anything.

"The fact is that government and council policies are effectively killing us, driving us off the road and silencing our voices"quote from your earlier post
Why do you believe this? what has been done to confirm this is what they want?

And to end, i think there are more important things to worry about in NZ at this present time then if the government is trying to get rid of bikers, and i guess all the fellow bikers in CHCH couldn't give a rats arse about right now either.

[Fatt Max]

Again Riffer; that just plays into their hands. If they can delay us long enough, past the elction for instance, we will have to deal with a new government (whether National or Labour) and start all over again. Delaying tactics are standard fare and although Chch is a sad event, the rest of the nations bikers should not allow politicians to manipulate the agenda because of it.


I think Riffer was displaying a bit of fucking repect here mate,the whole event is just 24 hours old and making that kind of crass and basically stupid statement is simply fucked.

Passion or no passion, there is no need for that, really......

[Nasty]

Wrong; the time for protest and ACTION is NOW. Well before the election. That's the problem; the extant biker groups have been telling us to do nothing for ages and to leave it to them. The result? Read above.


Having watched this thread with less interest than most - I find the following:

1. III you don't listen to others

2. III you just seem to think that one way is right and that is YOUR way

3. III you have not suggested a bloody thing

4. III you have accused and abused organised groups - YET - you are pathetically unable to suggest or organise your way into a non-abusive thread with reasonable discussions where others can participate without you going mad and abusing them or accussing them of taking the discussion off topic

5. This post is on topic - it relates to the continued inability of YOU III to actually gain buy in or anything to YOUR approach.

[Katman]

The big picture here is that bikers have been fucked over ever since I can remember

The bigger picture is bigger than that Mike.

[Brian d marge]

I told you what to do , just go and do it

tweet , Jk house Thursday 7pm toot toot and a flyer's in the letter box ,

posting letter to parliament is FREE

the letter must be well written and reasoned ( trust me , one slightest weak point and it WILL be binned in the crackpot bin...pollys get TONS of letters from crackpots )

I will write the letter if you want.


tweet and repeat ....just go and do it !


Stephen

[Brian d marge]

I imagine most of the Government's plans may have to go on hold for a while post-quake.

Now would not be seen as a good time for protest action and would result in
and it could all very easily turn to custard with inappropriately-timed protest actions.

True but Regular small tweet and repeats ( i like that , has a catch to it ) WITH a UNITED VOICE
ie a Letter That ALL GROUPS agree on , ie generic

wont cause custard ..but will constantly remind those that pretend to be our duly elected leaders

on a side note I know many on the labour front bench ( not sure if they are there now ) and I know they are trying to do the right thing ...so why is it so friggen difficult

unless they cant

Stephen

[Maha]

The 18 months was a time frame provided to me by a MAG member. Perhaps that was from inception to registration. You'll have to take that up with them and if you feel it is of value; feel free to post here.
I'm happy to stand corrected and that would mean that the organisation, MAG, has OFFICIALLY had 5 months to achieve as compared to the 3 months Maha seems to have given me, an individual.

In the meantime, any ideas for action?

Excuse me?...feel free to point out where I said three months.
The MAG website was up and running August 28th and MAG officially launched October 3rd you ignorant twat.

[Virago]

I'm happy to stand corrected and that would mean that the organisation, MAG, has OFFICIALLY had 5 months to achieve as compared to the 3 months Maha seems to have given me, an individual...

We were not aware that this was a contest. Why do you continue to see it as such?

[caseye]

Time as always, is of the essence. Competitions are not always bad things Virago, having said that I too have watched this thread and I see in Ideli somone who is totally frustrated at being told this group or that group is going to Do something, only to see them go for a ride somewhere or write a letter.Ideli wants action and by george he will get it even if he has to do it himself.
In that respect I wish him well, he is going to find as we who have tried before him that NZ Bikers are almost comatose when it comes to what is happening around them unless it actually involves riding.
I support anyone who wants to try and get our current Govt to change their stance on ACC,.
I support anyone who actually stands up and does something whatever it is to that end.
I'm tired of listening to drivel from almost all parties about who is right or wrong.
For once can't we all see that while some people want to do diffeent things that there is room for all to do their thing and that collectively and in unision (even if it's only a passing acknowledgement of the other) we might get some traction.
Ulysses tried last year to get 44 groups of motorcyclists together at the same table.Just 10 replied to their initial enquiry as to whether or not they;'d like to attend an inaugural meeting of like minded bike groups.
To see if some common ground could not be found.
The outcome of that meeting was so far that there is or was another one early this year, attended by those same groups.
I'd like to hear what does or has happened at that meeting.
I'd like to see different opinions aired here and discussed, not two antagonists going at one another hammer and tongs, are we not in the 21st century?
If we can't thrash out a clear one line statement to the Politicians we're buggered , each and every one of us.
So go on, continue the fighting, ignore the obvious.Eventually both sides and all opinions will need to come together to fight central govt.
Or not, and if it's , or not , we're screwed.

[PrincessBandit]

Small splintered groups and activities, particularly those which appear not to have general support from riders, will not do us any favours.

Civil disobedience tends to only attract rent-a-mob which can ultimately do more damage than any intended by the purists who are on a crusade.

[Brian d marge]

Time as always, is of the essence. Competitions are not always bad things Virago, having said that I too have watched this thread and I see in Ideli somone who is totally frustrated at being told this group or that group is going to Do something, only to see them go for a ride somewhere or write a letter.Ideli wants action and by george he will get it even if he has to do it himself.
In that respect I wish him well, he is going to find as we who have tried before him that NZ Bikers are almost comatose when it comes to what is happening around them unless it actually involves riding.
I support anyone who wants to try and get our current Govt to change their stance on ACC,.
I support anyone who actually stands up and does something whatever it is to that end.
I'm tired of listening to drivel from almost all parties about who is right or wrong.
For once can't we all see that while some people want to do diffeent things that there is room for all to do their thing and that collectively and in unision (even if it's only a passing acknowledgement of the other) we might get some traction.
Ulysses tried last year to get 44 groups of motorcyclists together at the same table.Just 10 replied to their initial enquiry as to whether or not they;'d like to attend an inaugural meeting of like minded bike groups.
To see if some common ground could not be found.
The outcome of that meeting was so far that there is or was another one early this year, attended by those same groups.
I'd like to hear what does or has happened at that meeting.
I'd like to see different opinions aired here and discussed, not two antagonists going at one another hammer and tongs, are we not in the 21st century?
If we can't thrash out a clear one line statement to the Politicians we're buggered , each and every one of us.
So go on, continue the fighting, ignore the obvious.Eventually both sides and all opinions will need to come together to fight central govt.
Or not, and if it's , or not , we're screwed.

Reading not your strong point is it , you right about the one clear message ,, which I do think needs addressing

you might have missed the point that , writing a letter and going for a ride , WITH other like minded people ORGANISED via twitter IS ACTION

and an Action which will not cause others who are working behind the scenes any inconvenience to there objectives , Which should and I suspect are the same ,

Stephen

[Fatt Max]

Time as always, is of the essence. Competitions are not always bad things Virago, having said that I too have watched this thread and I see in Ideli somone who is totally frustrated at being told this group or that group is going to Do something, only to see them go for a ride somewhere or write a letter.Ideli wants action and by george he will get it even if he has to do it himself.
In that respect I wish him well, he is going to find as we who have tried before him that NZ Bikers are almost comatose when it comes to what is happening around them unless it actually involves riding.
I support anyone who wants to try and get our current Govt to change their stance on ACC,.
I support anyone who actually stands up and does something whatever it is to that end.
I'm tired of listening to drivel from almost all parties about who is right or wrong.
For once can't we all see that while some people want to do diffeent things that there is room for all to do their thing and that collectively and in unision (even if it's only a passing acknowledgement of the other) we might get some traction.
Ulysses tried last year to get 44 groups of motorcyclists together at the same table.Just 10 replied to their initial enquiry as to whether or not they;'d like to attend an inaugural meeting of like minded bike groups.
To see if some common ground could not be found.
The outcome of that meeting was so far that there is or was another one early this year, attended by those same groups.
I'd like to hear what does or has happened at that meeting.
I'd like to see different opinions aired here and discussed, not two antagonists going at one another hammer and tongs, are we not in the 21st century?
If we can't thrash out a clear one line statement to the Politicians we're buggered , each and every one of us.
So go on, continue the fighting, ignore the obvious.Eventually both sides and all opinions will need to come together to fight central govt.
Or not, and if it's , or not , we're screwed.

Good post mate,

I have been saying that the only way is a united way embracing ALL forms of protest, literal and physical.

I have been saying this for a while now.

Getting there will always be a problem, but for fuck sake why not try.

Those we wish to defeat will love all this bickering, proves to them their (wrong) belief that we are a pack of useless bikers who cant organise a bunk up in a knocking shop.

But hey, what the fuck do I know......

[Katman]

Civil disobedience tends to only attract rent-a-mob which can ultimately do more damage than any intended by the purists who are on a crusade.

But civil disobedience doesn't need to mean rioting.

En masse refusal to pay your rego and clogging the court system works for me.

[DEVVIL]

But civil disobedience doesn't need to mean rioting.

En masse refusal to pay your rego and clogging the court system works for me.
OMG Katman stop making sense:shutup:. Whats the world coming to.
Bling bling
Just think of the TV licence and people power:woohoo:

[idleidolidyll]

Having watched this thread with less interest than most - I find the following:

1. III you don't listen to others

2. III you just seem to think that one way is right and that is YOUR way

3. III you have not suggested a bloody thing

4. III you have accused and abused organised groups - YET - you are pathetically unable to suggest or organise your way into a non-abusive thread with reasonable discussions where others can participate without you going mad and abusing them or accussing them of taking the discussion off topic

5. This post is on topic - it relates to the continued inability of YOU III to actually gain buy in or anything to YOUR approach.

Oh my, now I've got moderators after me.

I disagree nasty; that is ALL ad hominem. It might JUST be on topic but nevertheless, it is a blatant personal attack.

Trust me, I have a degree in it.

BTW; like Ocean, those are merely your opinions and are not supported by fact.

Do you have any suggestions you think will create a RESULT or are you happy enough just bagging me?

[idleidolidyll]

But civil disobedience doesn't need to mean rioting.

En masse refusal to pay your rego and clogging the court system works for me.

Indeed

Was someone advocating starting riots?

[Nasty]

Oh my, now I've got moderators after me.

I disagree nasty; that is ALL ad hominem. It might JUST be on topic but nevertheless, it is a blatant personal attack.

Trust me, I have a degree in it.

BTW; like Ocean, those are merely your opinions and are not supported by fact.

Do you have any suggestions you think will create a RESULT or are you happy enough just bagging me?

I disagree with you .. no moderators are after you. I was stating what i see as the facts that you are putting out there. its your choice to matyr yourself. So go for it.

[riffer]

Looks like Crazy Steve's going to have some company... :facepalm:

[idleidolidyll]

When and if Chch is settled - politics waits for no disasters - in fact - politicians use disasters to further their own gains, to slide even more odious laws and systems into place because the public are even further distracted! It's hard to keep an eye on politicians or care about what they are doing when you are trying to rebuild your lives and properties. You'd expect them to be helping those in need! Hah! Only if they can get to remain in power, otherwise they couldn't give two fucks about the ordinary citizen. Your "consent" to remain in power, thought of by most as their vote, is all they want. Withdraw that consent, and they will do whatever it takes to try and keep power and that is the hold people have over politicos. What a shame most people are too scared to realise that.

Good to see some deep analysis here.

A key is this: regardless of which party you support; never trust a politician.

In fact I'll go one further: ALWAYS look for the bill they ate trying to slip in the backdoor or the crony they are sucking up to when you think they are doing something altruistic

Politicians are trained in the house to manipulate, misdirect and misinterpret to their own advantage

[riffer]

You guys aren't seriously suggesting they might use the earthquake in Christchurch as an excuse to suspend the election now are you?

Buy a tin foil hat guys...

[idleidolidyll]

And in 12 months time we can all see what you will sorted out as well, IMHO nothing.

You cry and wine about the government this, government that, and think that it will change if someone else gets into power, it wont, and if Labour gets in it will only get worse, unless of course you are on the dole or want some hand out.

I commend you on your stance and passion behind it but you are very naive to think that we are a big enough group, even if we stand together, to change much if anything.

"The fact is that government and council policies are effectively killing us, driving us off the road and silencing our voices"quote from your earlier post
Why do you believe this? what has been done to confirm this is what they want?

And to end, i think there are more important things to worry about in NZ at this present time then if the government is trying to get rid of bikers, and i guess all the fellow bikers in CHCH couldn't give a rats arse about right now either.

What is the ONLY thing that hasn't actually been tried yet?

That's right: ACTION

until it's tried, we will never know if it works or not.
Are you prepared to give up before it is tried?

As I said in another post: about the only thing I've ever seen really get a result for bikers was ACTION against Auckland City over parking. We took over half the city just once and they capitulated.

Are you gonna let the detractors stop you even trying?
You have bugger all to lose but a lot to gain.

[nallac]

Looks like Crazy Steve's going to have some company... :facepalm:

lets hope so...what a load of crap........

[idleidolidyll]

The bigger picture is bigger than that Mike.


There is always a bigger picture Katman (bloody useless Apple spell check!) the important thing is which really matter to a person at any point in time.

I care a lot about disadvantaged people
I care about destruction of the environment
I care that the USA has started 56 overt and covert wars in the last 100 years

Those are all bigger issues but, At the moment, the big issue I care about is bikers dying in my arms because they crash on gravel, bikers being treated badly and disrespected by the government, bikers being disrespected by Auckland council ey

I have other concurrent 'big issues' but those just aint relevant here and now.

So please, cease the nifty one liners and post something with some guts to it

[idleidolidyll]

I told you what to do , just go and do it

tweet , Jk house Thursday 7pm toot toot and a flyer's in the letter box ,

posting letter to parliament is FREE

the letter must be well written and reasoned ( trust me , one slightest weak point and it WILL be binned in the crackpot bin...pollys get TONS of letters from crackpots )

I will write the letter if you want.


tweet and repeat ....just go and do it !


Stephen

Stephen

Of all those who have posted here you are the only one to offer some definite action

Full credit to you and yes, I agree completely

Good on ya mate

[Nasty]

There is always a bigger picture layman, the important thing is which really matter to a person at any point in time.


And again with the insults. The question is when are you gonna grow up and actually be constructive. What are your proposals - what are the actual options that you are wanting considered - actually say something rather than antagonise for no gain.

[idleidolidyll]

True but Regular small tweet and repeats ( i like that , has a catch to it ) WITH a UNITED VOICE
ie a Letter That ALL GROUPS agree on , ie generic

wont cause custard ..but will constantly remind those that pretend to be our duly elected leaders

on a side note I know many on the labour front bench ( not sure if they are there now ) and I know they are trying to do the right thing ...so why is it so friggen difficult

unless they cant

Stephen

Again,

I agree, that's one very valid suggestion.

However, as you have obviously gathered, I don't think letters and talk alone are ever gonna be enough. Unless these are backed by something that will cost them or disrupt their plans in some way, letters and talk can be countered by letters and talk.

[Katman]

Those are all bigger issues but, At the moment, the big issue I care about is bikers dying in my arms because they crash on gravel,

Spare us the fucking theatrics.

The motorcyclist most likely to die in your arms would have been trying to keep up with your public road/racetrack heroics.

[idleidolidyll]

We were not aware that this was a contest. Why do you continue to see it as such?

Maha suggested I'd fail and to review in 3 months I believe. Frankly I can't be bothered reading back to hunt down his post, it's just not that important to me

No, it's not a contest, it's a bunch of people with good intentions who, for some reason, think that one of the most tried and trusted tactics available should be avoided like the page: ACTION

[idleidolidyll]

Time as always, is of the essence. Competitions are not always bad things Virago, having said that I too have watched this thread and I see in Ideli somone who is totally frustrated at being told this group or that group is going to Do something, only to see them go for a ride somewhere or write a letter.Ideli wants action and by george he will get it even if he has to do it himself.
In that respect I wish him well, he is going to find as we who have tried before him that NZ Bikers are almost comatose when it comes to what is happening around them unless it actually involves riding.
I support anyone who wants to try and get our current Govt to change their stance on ACC,.
I support anyone who actually stands up and does something whatever it is to that end.
I'm tired of listening to drivel from almost all parties about who is right or wrong.
For once can't we all see that while some people want to do diffeent things that there is room for all to do their thing and that collectively and in unision (even if it's only a passing acknowledgement of the other) we might get some traction.
Ulysses tried last year to get 44 groups of motorcyclists together at the same table.Just 10 replied to their initial enquiry as to whether or not they;'d like to attend an inaugural meeting of like minded bike groups.
To see if some common ground could not be found.
The outcome of that meeting was so far that there is or was another one early this year, attended by those same groups.
I'd like to hear what does or has happened at that meeting.
I'd like to see different opinions aired here and discussed, not two antagonists going at one another hammer and tongs, are we not in the 21st century?
If we can't thrash out a clear one line statement to the Politicians we're buggered , each and every one of us.
So go on, continue the fighting, ignore the obvious.Eventually both sides and all opinions will need to come together to fight central govt.
Or not, and if it's , or not , we're screwed.

Caseye

I agree to a point

You can't help people who refuse to be helped

In the end, levy increases are no biggie to me; I can afford em
However, I'm prepared to fight for YOUR right to be treated fairly and not be raped by government

[nallac]

I'm prepared to fight for YOUR right to be treated fairly and not be raped by government

so what happens if we don't want you to "fight" on our behalf?????????.

[idleidolidyll]

I disagree with you .. no moderators are after you. I was stating what i see as the facts that you are putting out there. its your choice to matyr yourself. So go for it.

Oh if only we were allowed to post PM's and rep comments!

Matyr?
No, I'm no Jeebus

I just care about fairness and bikers being fucked over by authority. Someone here told me they wanted no tall poppies; I disagree, causes need tall poppies as those are rallying points

I once I may not be THE tall poppy but I'm not gonna let the fuckers with sickles cut me down just yet because I've seen bugger all others trying to promote ACTION.

In fact, despite lessons showing it works, most have been brainwashed to think it can't work so won't even try it.

[idleidolidyll]

Looks like Crazy Steve's going to have some company... :facepalm:

Despite his human failings (think about your own, we all have em) you might be surprised to hear that I respect Steve.

He's no gutless wonder and is a man who stands up for what he believes in

I'd be proud to stand there with him

[nosebleed]

Your posts have been bugging me, but not for the reasons that others are responding to.
You post coherent sentences and then make schoolboy references with user names.
These jibes don't sit right in the posts you're making and seem awkwardly antogonistic.

But I've just worked it out with "layman". You're using a spellchecker.
This is why you made reference to "mama" and "layman".
Either turn it off, or recheck your posts after the spellchecker has been through and undo the correction on the usernames.

Unless of course i'm widly mistaken and you are being deliberate, in which case, as you were.

[idleidolidyll]

You guys aren't seriously suggesting they might use the earthquake in Christchurch as an excuse to suspend the election now are you?

Buy a tin foil hat guys...

I dunno, hadn't thought about that.

I just don't trust them.
There was no need to give Brownlee the powers of a dictator last time and many of our lawyers and judges are VERY concerned about that one.
I see them looking for whatever advantage they can get and I don't automatically believe they will not use the situation to their advantage

Politicians are liars and manipulative by definition

[idleidolidyll]

And again with the insults. The question is when are you gonna grow up and actually be constructive. What are your proposals - what are the actual options that you are wanting considered - actually say something rather than antagonise for no gain.

What insult? Please be a little clearer;
Did you miss where Katman was trying to put words in my mouth?

No, I've stated that I'm not gonna post tactics here (yet), I don't trust any of the coppers and pollies watching these spaces.

[idleidolidyll]

Your posts have been bugging me, but not for the reasons that others are responding to.
You post coherent sentences and then make schoolboy references with user names.
These jibes don't sit right in the posts you're making and seem awkwardly antogonistic.

But I've just worked it out with "layman". You're using a spellchecker.
This is why you made reference to "mama" and "layman".
Either turn it off, or recheck your posts after the spellchecker has been through and undo the correction on the usernames.

Unless of course i'm widly mistaken and you are being deliberate, in which case, as you were.

Correct, bloody iPhone!

[idleidolidyll]

Spare us the fucking theatrics.

The motorcyclist most likely to die in your arms would have been trying to keep up with your public road/racetrack heroics.

Katman

Please pull head in; a KB rider died (literally) in my arms late 2009 on a KB ride after crashing having hit gravel.
The cops arrived and before speaking to a single witness, pronounced their verdict; 'he was speeding'

Fact is he wasn't at that point and three other KB members can attest to that

As for trying to keep up; he left he previous stop quite a while before us as he knew he was a slower rider. He was in front of us not behind.

Frankly; that comment is your most outrageous yet and highly offensive not only to me but to the memory of our downed biker and his family.

[idleidolidyll]

And again with the insults. The question is when are you gonna grow up and actually be constructive. What are your proposals - what are the actual options that you are wanting considered - actually say something rather than antagonise for no gain.

Oh I see, you think Layman is the insult

FYI; it's Apples bloody spellcheck on the iPhone and I often miss these as I type.
Sometimes I catch them afterward and change em

[idleidolidyll]

so what happens if we don't want you to "fight" on our behalf?????????.

All of you or just a few vociferous ones?

In the end, as Caseye noted; if bikers don't get off their arises and act or at least support those prepared to act on their behalf; they are pretty much GUARANTEED to get an ass reaming

Of course Caseye said it somewhat more eloquently than that..........:innocent:

[BoristheBiter]

What is the ONLY thing that hasn't actually been tried yet?

That's right: ACTION

until it's tried, we will never know if it works or not.
Are you prepared to give up before it is tried?

As I said in another post: about the only thing I've ever seen really get a result for bikers was ACTION against Auckland City over parking. We took over half the city just once and they capitulated.

Are you gonna let the detractors stop you even trying?
You have bugger all to lose but a lot to gain.

Are you trying to be a politician, trying to sound more intelligent than you are or have you responded to the wrong post?
That post doesn't answer any of the questions i asked you, you just asked some question that I didn't care about in the first place

So again why do you think the powers that be are trying to get ride of bikers and in your opinion what has been done so far to have this assumption?

And what is this about taking over half the city in regards to parking, first i have heard of it, heard about the Wellington one, and Auckland is a very large city to take over half.

[Swoop]

En masse refusal to pay your rego and clogging the court system works for me.
Everyone should put their rego on hold immediately. You can still ride legally since the "on hold" only comes into force at the end of the rego period.
If all bikers did that??? Who knows.

[Fatt Max]

Everyone should put their rego on hold immediately. You can still ride legally since the "on hold" only comes into force at the end of the rego period.
If all bikers did that??? Who knows.

Or, take your rego money donate the lot to the Christchurch Quake appeal.

Then, when the authorities ask "where is your rego", tell them where their money went.....then tell them to fuck off....

[idleidolidyll]

Are you trying to be a politician, trying to sound more intelligent than you are or have you responded to the wrong post?
That post doesn't answer any of the questions i asked you, you just asked some question that I didn't care about in the first place

So again why do you think the powers that be are trying to get ride of bikers and in your opinion what has been done so far to have this assumption?

And what is this about taking over half the city in regards to parking, first i have heard of it, heard about the Wellington one, and Auckland is a very large city to take over half.

Tell ya what, leave off the idiot personal attacks and I'll discuss with you. Continue and I wont bother.

1. Action in Akl City re parking. You may be too young to have known it or an immigrant.
That was over 30 years ago and we took action that achieved the desired result.
FYI; you don't have to take over a whole city; just take damn near every carpark in the CBD with one bike each space.

Most of the leaders of the various biker orgs know about that one but they ignore it in favor of PC bullshit.

2. Re ridding the roads of bikers.
Go read the MAG website, it discusses Aucklands anti bike policy.
In the past, roads were swept clean, now they are not. Draw a conclusion: even Gough the regulations require roads to be left clean and swept, it is not enforced and Govt doesn't give a shit.
Past politicians have indicated they want to see less bikes. However, you don't have to hear that said to understand; you only have to consider how they ignore our calls re cheesecutters, gravel, potholes, bad road design for motorbikes n bicycles etc etc

Not everything is spelled out in B&W, in fact politicians prefer that it isn't so they can blame someone else.

That's all you get for now. A polite reply will get you more, another silly attack will guarantee nothing comes your way

[idleidolidyll]

Everyone should put their rego on hold immediately. You can still ride legally since the "on hold" only comes into force at the end of the rego period.
If all bikers did that??? Who knows.

Doesn't cost them a red cent and they know you'll reg again when the hold ends

Can't see it working but thanks for offering a valid option

[idleidolidyll]

Or, take your rego money donate the lot to the Christchurch Quake appeal.

Then, when the authorities ask "where is your rego", tell them where their money went.....then tell them to fuck off....

THAT one I really like!

[Katman]

If all bikers did that??? Who knows.

And once others saw motorcyclists doing it en masse, those who feel they are being hit by the ACC levies (cue the "Who's next" theme) could be easily encouraged to do likewise.

It's the only action I can see that would gain widespread support.

[Usarka]

People are/have already put rego's on hold and that is why we are seeing motorcyclists being targeted by the cops for safety reasons.

[CookMySock]

Leaders are people respected for their vision and actions.Nope. Leaders are respected for not offending the delicate sensibilities of their members. Most leaders are elected because they pander to those who elect them. It matters not whether there are real results or otherwise, as said leader grandstands from one topic to the next. The whole point of these leaders(sic) is not to represent you or I, but to pacify us with that illusion in the meanwhile, and work their way up the political chain of power and become one of the people who are part of the problem.

Then there is the next problem of people cutting you down because they are afraid to stand up to the law(sic)makers - cue three quarters of KB. :facepalm:

There is an evolution of those who have had enough of overt and ever-increasing taxation, rule making, money-gathering, and other government stunts, but they aren't going to post here for the above reasons.

I'd suggest individuals decided for themselves what they consented to, or not, and simply do that.


Steve

[BoristheBiter]

Tell ya what, leave off the idiot personal attacks and I'll discuss with you. Continue and I wont bother.

1. Action in Akl City re parking. You may be too young to have known it or an immigrant.
That was over 30 years ago and we took action that achieved the desired result.
FYI; you don't have to take over a whole city; just take damn near every carpark in the CBD with one bike each space.

Most of the leaders of the various biker orgs know about that one but they ignore it in favor of PC bullshit.

2. Re ridding the roads of bikers.
Go read the MAG website, it discusses Aucklands anti bike policy.
In the past, roads were swept clean, now they are not. Draw a conclusion: even Gough the regulations require roads to be left clean and swept, it is not enforced and Govt doesn't give a shit.
Past politicians have indicated they want to see less bikes. However, you don't have to hear that said to understand; you only have to consider how they ignore our calls re cheesecutters, gravel, potholes, bad road design for motorbikes n bicycles etc etc

Not everything is spelled out in B&W, in fact politicians prefer that it isn't so they can blame someone else.

That's all you get for now. A polite reply will get you more, another silly attack will guarantee nothing comes your way

Fuck you're a bit precious aren't you. I asked you a civil question in the first place and got some BS answer so get over yourself.

And yes i am an immigrant (so what) and have been here for over 40 years, never have i seen normal roads swept clean, potholes fixed or roads designed for bikes, and you show me where any politician has said that they want to see less bikes on the roads.

Guess what? You are not the only one that uses roads, in fact the bike community is not a high percentage of the road users in general, so if you think that by some sort of what ever action you want things will change you are very badly mistaken.

So go put your tinfoil hat on, work some more paranoia into that head of yours and post some more bollocks.

Answer this or not, i couldn't give a rats arse as any discussion with you would be pointless as you can't see any other side than your own.

P.S. If you are going to bag a bike organisation (MAG-NZ) stop quoting there web site.

[BoristheBiter]

Nope. Leaders are respected for not offending the delicate sensibilities of their members. Most leaders are elected because they pander to those who elect them. It matters not whether there are real results or otherwise, as said leader grandstands from one topic to the next. The whole point of these leaders(sic) is not to represent you or I, but to pacify us with that illusion in the meanwhile, and work their way up the political chain of power and become one of the people who are part of the problem.

Then there is the next problem of people cutting you down because they are afraid to stand up to the law(sic)makers - cue three quarters of KB. :facepalm:

There is an evolution of those who have had enough of overt and ever-increasing taxation, rule making, money-gathering, and other government stunts, but they aren't going to post here for the above reasons.

I'd suggest individuals decided for themselves what they consented to, or not, and simply do that.


Steve

Welcome back, long time no post.

[mashman]

:facepalm: ... and we wonder why TPTB don't give a shit. As far as i'm concerned, not paying for your rego does 1 thing and 1 thing only... pushes levies up the next year and every year afterwards. It will also give them excuses for borrowing more overseas $$$, justifying the selling of public assets etc... and all in the name of them darn motorcyclists not paying their levies... which are obviously fair because the April 1 risk based road user analysis computer says so!

However, and this is where I came unstuck after approaching my local MP, without having the figures to back up any argument, next to noone will want to touch the theory with a barge pole. But there is a group of people that will listen to the theory. The people.

Therefore the only way I can see pressure being exerted on TPTB and hopefully making them look again at the numbers in a different light, is to come up with a solid message and some best guess figures, get out and about and get signatures on paper. Focus on the "rough", highly populated areas as they're more than likely gonna wanna stick one to TPTB... they're are about the $$$, no more, no less. The human factor isn't a part of their equation unless we make it that way.

As for the flaming and KB's not a place to organise a piss up attitude... you're the same person wether on a forum or having a chat with yer mates in the pub. No?

Am i gonna join the III... I might yet, especially as it's only ideas being thrown around... PM pending...

p.s. this isn't just a motorcyclists issue... our actions affect everyones levies :)

[avgas]

People are/have already put rego's on hold and that is why we are seeing motorcyclists being targeted by the cops for safety reasons.
Yep that part sucks.
I had to go rego bike as I went through 3 checkpoints in a week.

Fucking wankers

[Katman]

There's a big difference between 5% of motorcyclists refusing to pay rego and 95% of motorcyclists refusing to pay rego.

One is easily clamped down on by routine policing and the other becomes a bigger problem than TPTB have ever contemplated.

[Quasievil]

I aint paying rego fees, fuck em

I registered it in my name at my address, Im still the same person at the same address, why do I have to register the same information to the same data base
every fucking year , for who and for why !!

[nodrog]

There's a big difference between 5% of motorcyclists refusing to pay rego and 95% of motorcyclists refusing to pay rego.

One is easily clamped down on by routine policing and the other becomes a bigger problem than TPTB have ever contemplated.

The answer to an easy, non public upsetting, easy to do (even by lazy cunts) protest is contained within this post.

Fanny.

[Quasievil]

did you know the Magna Carta allows us to have free and peaceful use of the Queens highways ?
that was until wanky Labour changed the law before we took that up with them.

[hotgsxr750]

did you know the Magna Carta allows us to have free and peaceful use of the Queens highways ?
that was until wanky Labour changed the law before we took that up with them.

I think you still can if you didn't agree to there new photo Licence way back when but I will be proven wrong by someone

[SPman]

You guys aren't seriously suggesting they might use the earthquake in Christchurch as an excuse to suspend the election now are you?

Buy a tin foil hat guys...
Not at all - they have some more odious bills they want to enact. They'll play the sympathy card for the elections. However, they've so far, suspended the census,(not a biggie as long as they do it properly). and also enacted a state of National emergency, which affects the entire country, instead of a Provincial state of emergency, which affects that province - so now, you can get some policeman in Kaitia telling you what to do, quoting his powers under the NSE, and politicians doing things outside Canterbury, which have nothing to do with the Chch's troubles.

Leaders are respected for not offending the delicate sensibilities of their members. Most leaders are elected because they pander to those who elect them.
REAL leaders, are seldom elected!

[idleidolidyll]

Nope. Leaders are respected for not offending the delicate sensibilities of their members. Most leaders are elected because they pander to those who elect them. It matters not whether there are real results or otherwise, as said leader grandstands from one topic to the next. The whole point of these leaders(sic) is not to represent you or I, but to pacify us with that illusion in the meanwhile, and work their way up the political chain of power and become one of the people who are part of the problem.

Then there is the next problem of people cutting you down because they are afraid to stand up to the law(sic)makers - cue three quarters of KB. :facepalm:

There is an evolution of those who have had enough of overt and ever-increasing taxation, rule making, money-gathering, and other government stunts, but they aren't going to post here for the above reasons.

I'd suggest individuals decided for themselves what they consented to, or not, and simply do that.


Steve

sadly you're describing what people often settle for; i was describing REAL leaders

well said DB

[MrKiwi]

Personally I'm into action. I'll keep talking, that is one form of action. I'll keep writing letters, that is another form of action. Every letter you write to the Minister for ACC is sent to the department for officials to draft a reply for the Minister's consideration prior to the Minister sending the reply back to you under his name. Lots and lots of letters clogs the system and also makes a point. One the easiest ways to get the point across is for each of to continue to write a letter and protest. Demand they give us quantifiable justifications for the increase (which of course they can't but reading the replies is kind of amusing in a sadistic sort of way).

Keep the protest going, and going, and going. If we go quiet as individuals and collectively then they will think they are winning and we have given up. Keep the noise level up and they get worried.

Keep them worried is my view.

Action on many fronts will keep them worried...

[CookMySock]

sadly you're describing what people often settle for; i was describing REAL leadersWell thats a bit of a head-scratcher then. How to become a non-elected leader of a volunteer body?

I'm somewhat surprised to see the "we don't consent and we won't pay" remarks in this thread. **double checks the URL.. yep this is KB.. :yes:

I'm completely over their fundraising efforts. I won't pay, and I won't discuss it with them. I'm sure there's going to be a huge tantrum from all quarters. :corn:

They are currently attempting to "discuss" some issue where was not carrying my license with me (otherwise completely legal AND BEHAVING to boot!) I have repeatedly informed them I do not consent and will not discuss :bleh:. It's a small battle with little to lose, so we'll see.

[Pixie]

Fair enough, opinion respected, but is cutting all ties with these groups that have so much more to offer in both expertise, experience and knowledge a good move?

Any action needs support from all factors. These groups can provide access to media and people of influence. Is it wise to totally discount this?

I’m not saying do not get stuck in and have a crack, I’m merely saying that to paint all the biker groups with the ‘chicken stick’ can do more damage to the overall campaign.
Max,you sound surprisingly like Dave Cohen after we started you-know-what.:rofl:

[Maha]

Motorcycle Action Now = MAN....:blink:

[Maha]

Whats the lastest with this MAN thing?
Any closer to......at least an idea being put forward?

[Virago]

Those of you who've been watching know I'm dismayed and frustrated by the inaction of those who claim to represent motorcyclists in NZ.

We have any number of people talking on our behalf but that's been happening for years and we've seen little to no movement from government except appoint a group to investigate. I believe that will be a whitewash or dismissed in the run up to, and following the general election.

With that election looming, NOW is the right time to hit the streets and take real action. Given debate and discussions here over the last month or so, it seems there is little likelihood that one of the existing groups representing us will take action any time soon.

I've been asked to help recruit and guide people on appropriate action we can take individually and in groups to bring real attention to our various causes.

Those of you prepared to get out and be seen to be doing something, those of you thinking that civil disobedience or similar just might be necessary; please pm me and register your interest.

I'll need your location and a contact phone number; preferably a mobile number to be able to receive text messaging. Flash Mobs are a good way to circumvent those who would delay or misdirect us in our action.

As I live in Auckland, I'll have to start here. However, I do get around the country a bit and can make side calls on business trips. Even if you live outside Auckland, register your interest as we can share ideas and recruitment options.

Discussion of actual action options should be carefully worded. don't drop yourself in it with the law who are watching. Register first and we can work out communication methods via pm, txt messaging, email etc.

Okay, this is now six months down the track, and the general election only three months away. What has happened?

[Road kill]

This is a serious thread. All attempts to move it off topic will be reported to the moderators. All personal attacks and attempts to spam the thread will be reported to the moderators.

If you have an on topic serious question, it will be answered or discussed as it merits.

Moderators, with your kind assistance I'd like to see all deliberate attacks and attempts to hijack deleted or sent to pointless drivel.

So you want my contact details and your hoping to involve me in illegal actions on your behalf.
Mate report this to the Mods,,,,FUCK OFF.:laugh:

[Maha]

He lives in Idleland so you are pretty safe.

[White trash]

Okay, this is now six months down the track, and the general election only three months away. What has happened?

It's so secret and "underground", you don't even know the public disruption and protest is going on all around you. Kinda like fight club.......

[avgas]

I am considering dropping my addiction to bikes. To stop being a motorcyclist. Motorcyclist get a rough deal here.

I love having sex, so may be I should be a rapist. They seem to get a better deal in this country. :laugh:

[White trash]

I love having sex, so may be I should be a rapist. They seem to get a better deal in this country. :laugh:

That's not very PC of you.

















It's not called "rape" anymore, it's "struggle cuddles".

[Crasherfromwayback]

Or fight/fucking club.

[Brian d marge]

lets see....ummm here , bikes are cheap and so is the rego , and you can go 200 clicks on the motorway ...there .( NZ) .... Screwed , lots of complaining , no action ,,,,,, Still being screwed ,,,

Carry on ,

There are plenty of outlet to voice your concern, you just need to......

Drum roll .................................................. .................................................. ....



DO IT


Stephen

or bugger off like I did

[carver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J_e-EPbfDg&NR=1

[Berries]

lets see....ummm here , bikes are cheap and so is the rego , and you can go 200 clicks on the motorway ...there .( NZ) .... Screwed , lots of complaining , no action ,,,,,, Still being screwed ,,,
Bikes are cheap here, rego is cheap when you think about it and you can do 200 on the motorway. They speak English here and eat with cutlery.

The only thing we don't have is street corner dispensers selling school girls knickers. Luckily I have my own source for that.

Oh yes. We aren't radioactive either. And we don't slaughter dolphins.

[thepom]

But we do let comedians off with kiddie fiddling cos they.re funny...:eek5:

[Brian d marge]

Bikes are cheap here, rego is cheap when you think about it and you can do 200 on the motorway. They speak English here and eat with cutlery.

The only thing we don't have is street corner dispensers selling school girls knickers. Luckily I have my own source for that.

Oh yes. We aren't radioactive either. And we don't slaughter dolphins.
mmmm dolphins tasty..........
Stephen

[StoneY]

Maha suggested I'd fail and to review in 3 months I believe. Frankly I can't be bothered reading back to hunt down his post, it's just not that important to me

No, it's not a contest, it's a bunch of people with good intentions who, for some reason, think that one of the most tried and trusted tactics available should be avoided like the page: ACTION

review:
Action = NIL
Outcome = EPIC FAIL

Good work III

[Crasherfromwayback]

review:
Noise & hot air = an incredible amount

Action = NIL
Outcome = EPIC FAIL

Good work III

Fixed it for ya.

[StoneY]

Fixed it for ya.

Cheers!
:apint:

[Crasherfromwayback]

My pleasure believe me!

[avgas]

Could be worst. He could have taken money off us to go Tour....oppps I mean "Test" the coro loop.

Thankfully III has cost me nothing so far, so I have nothing against him.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thankfully III has cost me nothing so far, so I have nothing against him.

I simply don't really like shit spinners.

[Berries]

I got one for Fathers Day.

It's crap.

[White trash]

What a fucken joke.

If it actually MEANT something to ya, you'd be doing something. The fact of the matter is, it's an extra $2 a week to continue doing what we love doing, it's fuck all. The people who made the biggest stink, are all still paying and riding their bikes, and doing nothing.

As I said RIGHT (search the forums) at the start of this bullshit, motorcyclists cost more to rehabilitate, so should be paying their fair share. I'm glad all you "protesters" agree with me, especially after the amount shit I was given for saying so.

Fucken pussies.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fucken pussies.

The real pussies are the ones that don't simply put a $2.00 acc surcharge on fuel.

That way, the farmers that fuck themselves up on quads, the dirt bike boys/girls that do likewise...the boaties that drown, and the helicopter/cesna pilots that crash all pay. Mum and Dad that drive the kids to rugby that flood A & E rooms...you name it...they all pay.

[admenk]

The real pussies are the ones that don't simply put a $2.00 acc surcharge on fuel.

That way, the farmers that fuck themselves up on quads, the dirt bike boys/girls that do likewise...the boaties that drown, and the helicopter/cesna pilots that crash all pay. Mum and Dad that drive the kids to rugby that flood A & E rooms...you name it...they all pay.

Come on now, stop talking sense :yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Come on now, stop talking sense :yes:

Sorry. Very unusual for me I know!

[StoneY]

Come on now, stop talking sense :yes:

I got a girlfriend whos better than that....nothing is better than this

Or is it?


Oh shit wrong thread...this aint the Karaoke forum!

[Brian d marge]

Still talking about it then...

Stephen

[Usarka]

I still want my apocalypse NOW.

[Maha]

How long has this Idol been Idle?

[Voltaire]

Motorcycle Action Now = MAN....:blink:

Motorcycle Action Deferred = MAD...:blink:

[StoneY]

How long has this Idol been Idle?

Since it got old enough to post on KB would be my guess, Maha.

I laugh my ass off at this dickhead (good old III).

Abuses and blames groups like BRONZ and MAG and everyone else who has actualy DONE something, claims they sold out, ineffective, FOLLOW ME TO GLORY BY CELL TEXT MOB............

[SIZE="5"]Wasn't as easy as you think is it III... lmfao!

The amount of ranting abuse he threw my way ....and at others who DID do (and continue to) the real work while he rants on here and calls for action...where did you go III? What have you managed to achieve with your 'flash mobs'?

Oh yeah the old Kiwi Apathy Machine shot you down I guess?

Another wanker with a scythe looking for 'tall poppies'

[Virago]

Two weeks until the election...

[StoneY]

Two weeks until the election...

Tick ...... tock......... tick..............

[Usarka]

Tick ...... tock......... tick..............

Fuckin BOOM!

[avgas]

I simply don't really like shit spinners.
Shit roosters aren't much better. I used to have one then downgraded to a mud bug