A few questions about motorcycling?

[AshNZ]

I'm in my mid 20s and I've been thinking about replacing my car with a motorcycle as usual vehicle for daily commute. However, I have few questions -

- Fear/safety on road is my biggest concern - and thoughts on that? How much more dangerous is it to drive a bike compared to, say driving a car? Is it reasonable to assume that you will get hurt sometime?

- What are the costs of running a motorcycle compared to cars? Is it cheaper to motorcycle or a car (taking all costs into consideration)?

It's also worth mentioning that I have never ridden a motorcycle before (except for small scooter). Any advice welcome!

[bogan]

The safety depends largely on rider attitude, I feel more at ease on a bike due to the increased visibility. A number of near accidents for me were avoided largely because of increased awareness, of course if I was in my bright yellow van they may not have been near accidents at all. Respect the ride, and chances are you'll be fine.

You can run a motorcycle for less than a car, but it takes the fun out of it a bit!

When learning to ride, make sure to learn the limit, of yourself and the machine, for the basics find someone to help you learn, then when you got that down you could head along to a rider development day. Also riding books can be pretty informative.

[oneofsix]

As a new rider sooner or later you will drop the bike.
Factor in the cost of full bike gear and wear it. you may have seen ATGATT mentioned in the threads, All The Gear All The Time, a piece of advice I was given when talking of taking up riding.
You are responsible for your safety! You have an accident you are going to hurt, this inverse of the SUV think.
Don't believe the hero riding you see on TV, you aren't Rossi. Ride like a Nana, or like your Nana is your pillion passenger.
I find the bike cheaper than public transport but the cost of tyres are always a wake up call. Maintenance has to be more regular, unlike the car don't try to get away with just putting the petrol in. Look after your chain and controls. Check your tyre pressures, you only have two and they often have to work individually.
Weather, if you are serious you will be riding in all weathers so learn how it affects traction etc. Hot days, soft tar can equal loss of traction as does the first sprinkling of rain.
I wish I followed my on advice :facepalm:
Relax and enjoy the ride.

[Smifffy]

I'm in my mid 20s and I've been thinking about replacing my car with a motorcycle as usual vehicle for daily commute. However, I have few questions -


It's also worth mentioning that I have never ridden a motorcycle before (except for small scooter). Any advice welcome![/QUOTE]


Ok, I'll bite, at the risk of being slapped down.

How much scootering have you done?


- Fear/safety on road is my biggest concern - and thoughts on that? How much more dangerous is it to drive a bike compared to, say driving a car? Is it reasonable to assume that you will get hurt sometime?


You can't ride, much less commute with a fearful mind. In fact you can't achieve much in life at all with a fearful mind. This is not to say approach everything as if you are 10 foot tall and bulletproof, just that you need to know your limitations and be aware of your surroundings/environment. I personally believe the risk of getting hurt is about the same whether in a car, on a bike, bicycle or as pedestrian. Also if you are ATGATT then the injuries are likely to be less, if something happens cf on a bicycle or as a pedestrian.


- What are the costs of running a motorcycle compared to cars? Is it cheaper to motorcycle or a car (taking all costs into consideration)?

Short answer is it depends. There are plenty of threads on here comparing the economy of various bikes regarding fuel consumption. The rego costs are well publicised, then there are chains, sprockets, tyres and oil/services. My bike isn't a commuter as such, and costs more to run than my nissan pulsar, but less than my fairmont. Depending on what you have in mind they can be very cheap to run too.

It depends a lot on your reasons for getting a bike too. Is it so that you can lane split?

I used to commute in Auckland on a bike a long time ago - it was my only transport at the time. I'm glad that I was able to develop most of my riding skills in a quiet country town, rather than in the hurly burly of the city.

Remember also that storage space will be limited on a bike, for any of those lunch time or after work errands. It can be annoying to say the least commuting on a bike in the winter.

After saying all that:

Go for it! Just be sensible.
Go for it

[FJRider]

If you are concerned at all, on the safety aspect of motorcycling ... BUY A SMALL CAR ...

[nadroj]

People who drive a motorcycle don't fare too well until they learn to "Ride" the motorcycle.
Spend the time learning to ride properly and ride within your limits and experience and your chances will increase greatly.

[patarch]

Yea i agree with the all the gear all the time call.
I'm starting riding in the city soon. spent 1500 on gear because i know i will eventually have an accident and want to be prepared for it.
Will let you know what i reckon about the safety side of it once i get out on the road.
Main reason im getting a bike is because of traffic and shitty trains that take an hour and a half to get to work. not expecting to save money because i will still have the car but things should be a little easier and more fun on the weekends too

[steve_t]

As a new rider sooner or later you will drop the bike.

I don't believe dropping the bike is an inevitability (touch wood)

[Smifffy]

Yea i agree with the all the gear all the time call.
I'm starting riding in the city soon. spent 1500 on gear because i know i will eventually have an accident and want to be prepared for it.
Will let you know what i reckon about the safety side of it once i get out on the road.
Main reason im getting a bike is because of traffic and shitty trains that take an hour and a half to get to work. not expecting to save money because i will still have the car but things should be a little easier and more fun on the weekends too

Sorry to say, but I think you will eventually have an accident. Only because you know it already, and are already preparing for it.

[Rhys]

I don't believe dropping the bike is an inevitability (touch wood)

I have never dropped a road bike yet!

[awayatc]

Bikes are expensive to run.....way more expensive then a car.
unless you buy sub 250 or so....

Bikes are also less safe etc...

You get a bike because you love it...
not to save money, because you won't

[patarch]

Sorry to say, but I think you will eventually have an accident. Only because you know it already, and are already preparing for it.

well lets hope its not serious. And better to be prepared than surprised and missing a leg.

[Smifffy]

well lets hope its not serious. And better to be prepared than surprised and missing a leg.

Why not ride with a positive mental attitude, and application of roadcraft, with the expectation of arriving safely at your destination?

Use all of your skills to do so, and develop those skills at every opportunity.

Wear the gear for that 1 in a million outside chance that something does, (deity of choice) forbid, happen, but FFS don't ride around expecting it is going to.

Yes, when I was a kid I knew personally an older guy who lost his leg in a motorcycle accident. I'm still not sure which piece of ATGATT would have lessened that.

Stay safe, ride safe and keep it shiny side up. Look out for the other crazy bastard.

[HEMA]

If you are concerned at all, on the safety aspect of motorcycling ... BUY A SMALL CAR ...

nope, if you're that concerned with safety, don't get a SMALL car, get one of these:

[HEMA]

on second thought, get one of these:

[kiwifruit]

I don't believe dropping the bike is an inevitability

+ 1

[Usarka]

spent 1500 on gear because i know i will eventually have an accident and want to be prepared for it.


well lets hope its not serious. And better to be prepared than surprised and missing a leg.

Wrong attitude sorry mate - good gear is insurance, not a panacea. Plenty of riders have lost limbs or died while wearing appropriate gear.

[lone_slayer]

Ive been riding for just over 6 months and heres what ive picked up...
Older bikes can cost alot if they have not been upkept
my gsxr250 is a hell of alot cheaper on petrol than my 99 galant
fluro on your gear is a good idea (a friend could see me almost a k away)
I always am more aware on the bike keep a better following distance etc
Visability on the bike is alot better than a car
The bike slows down alot faster than a car (in General)

If you need storage I think its the suzuki Across which has storage where the tank is which i belive can hold a box of beer

[The Pastor]

I'm in my mid 20s and I've been thinking about replacing my car with a motorcycle as usual vehicle for daily commute. However, I have few questions -

- Fear/safety on road is my biggest concern - and thoughts on that? How much more dangerous is it to drive a bike compared to, say driving a car? Is it reasonable to assume that you will get hurt sometime?

- What are the costs of running a motorcycle compared to cars? Is it cheaper to motorcycle or a car (taking all costs into consideration)?

It's also worth mentioning that I have never ridden a motorcycle before (except for small scooter). Any advice welcome!

Hi mate, sounds like you should hang out with the SMC (scooter motorcycle club) its based at auckland uni - but you don't need to go to AU. We are a group of mid 20+ yr olds and get on the piss every friday, have people who can work on bikes, have someone who can sort ur licence out etc - a really cool low stress group of people. We don't actually go on many rides tho.

1. Yes motorcycling is dangerous. You will crash and get hurt. If you are smart you'll buy good quality gear and have the right mindset that will prevent 90% of accidents. The midset is this (this is my personal opinion) Cars cannot see you. You should ride and think that you're invisable. Expect if there is a place a car can go, it will go there.

Riding at 100kph staying still wrapped up in a high visability jacket is what a lot of people consider safe, but this contradics the number 1 law of motorcyle safty - cars cannot see you. Stay away from cars and you wont get hit. I ride agressivly - the cars can't see me so I get away from them quickly. You will find your own philosophy on this after time.

2. Its hard to say which is cheaper, a good set of gear is a big cost - $1-2000 - Do not skimp on this, buy quality once rather than shit gear twice. Don't rush into buying gear, research and try on alot of gear. Make sure it is good quality and fits tight. Helemets should squish your cheeks in, Leather is best, codura is still a good option. Draggin jeans are SHIT. CE approved armour is a MUST - Trust me.

Bike rego costs are higher than a cars, tyres are more expensive and wear out quicker (bike / tyre dependant - some a cheaper and last longer)

However fuel consumption is better than a car. This is an ongoing cost saving so you can save a bit of money esp if you commute a reasonable distance.

you may find you want to ride your bike a stack load more becuase its way more fun. Then costs obviously increase.

I hope this gives you fair understanding of all the costs invovled.

[Usarka]

Who's hacked renegade masters account? :shit:

[lone_slayer]

The midset is this (this is my personal opinion) Cars cannot see you. You should ride and think that you're invisable. Expect if there is a place a car can go, it will go there.

+1 Good advise but I dont think everyone on a motorcycle has had or will have a crash... In saying that my only crash so far was about 10 years ago on a dirt bike standing on the seat riding down a walking track and I hit a small rock. So all my fault being a silly bugger but got back up and quickly caught up to my mates who were having a good laugh at me...

[Drew]

Crashing a bike is not a forgone conclusion. But a a straight comparison on safety between car and bike, the bike loses badly.

You can swing that back in your favour however, by being safer yourself.

Bikes are cheaper to commute on, if you put appropriate tyres on, learn to keep a decent chain tensioned and lubed, and garage the beast at both ends of the trip.

Learning to ride is a funny old thing. Only times I've taught people, I get them taking off, stopping, and changing gears. Then I leave them to it in wide spaces. Don't need anyone else learning my bad habits, and always kinda thought it was a bit arrogant to say that my way is the right way.

My advice, go learn to ride, you'll love it or hate it.

Oh yeah, and for the love of god be careful what you ask on this fuckin site. We are all morons who should spend much more time on the bike than we do here.

[FJRider]

nope, if you're that concerned with safety, don't get a SMALL car, get one of these:

It may not be in his budget ...... :corn:

[george formby]

Bearing in mind the more people riding bikes the better IMHO, my 10cent worth as follows.

If your intentions are for efficient, cheap commuting then a bike or larger capacity scooter can do that for you.

Bikes up to 250cc are fine for the job but you need to think about what you need to carry, so you may factor in the cost of some form of luggage. A scooter will have good storage anyway & as a generalisation require less maintenance & offer better weather protection but don't look as cool, as if that matters.:shutup:

Consumables are higher on a bike, tires, chains, sprockets, servicing etc their is always something looming. Basic mechanical skills, tools, a manual & a forum like this can get you started with the basic stuff which saves $$$$$

ATGATT's safety aspect has been, ahem, mentioned but you need to think comfortable, warm & weather proof too. A cheap waterproof over suit, though lacking in erotic appeal will cover good but leaky safety gear just fine.

Safety, hmmm. Falling off always hurts but if you are a reasonable driver anyway & think about the daily hazards you face then building your skills on a bike is not a daunting task. Your in the same environment. Best way is tuition, using what you learn & never stop thinking. A good rider has an astonishing level of skills & ability, gained through time & a positive attitude to the road & riding. You start with small steps & your confidence, control & ability develops with time but you have to apply yourself. Bikes are not for those whose mind is usually elsewhere.

I guess a bike or scoot will be slightly cheaper than a small car overall if you do your own basic maintenance ( which you should ) but the initial out lay is steep. Need to think about parking & security too.

Ponder the bigger picture & if two wheels fit, go for it. Who knows where it may take you.

[george formby]

Ive been riding for just over 6 months and heres what ive picked up...
Older bikes can cost alot if they have not been upkept
my gsxr250 is a hell of alot cheaper on petrol than my 99 galant
fluro on your gear is a good idea (a friend could see me almost a k away)
I always am more aware on the bike keep a better following distance etc
Visability on the bike is alot better than a car
The bike slows down alot faster than a car (in General)

If you need storage I think its the suzuki Across which has storage where the tank is which i belive can hold a box of beer

Good info. Are you enjoying your bike?

[lone_slayer]

Good info. Are you enjoying your bike?

Its a bit of a yes and no.... Iam spending more time fixing it than riding it. But I know when its working well i love it

[george formby]

Its a bit of a yes and no.... Iam spending more time fixing it than riding it. But I know when its working well i love it

Been their, tool box on the back, feeling hopeful every time I set out.

Glad your getting the good bits too, thats what it's all about.:niceone:

[AshNZ]

Thanks, guys. Really appriciate the serious, non-sarcastic advice most of you have given me.

I have many reasons why I'm keen on getting into motorcycling. One of them is quicker, efficient commute (I don't carry much to office). Secondly, I'm keen on learning something new and different - learning to ride a motorcycle is quite a skill so it will keep me busy. Plus it's cool (don't tell me it's not a valid reason!!!)

A lot of you guys mentioned proper gear - I didn't realise good ones cost around 2k.. so that's something I need to factor in aswell.

I need to think a little bit about affordability etc. that's something I'll do on the weekend. Plus need to convince the missus :facepalm:

Cheers for your posts.

[lone_slayer]

A lot of you guys mentioned proper gear - I didn't realise good ones cost around 2k.. so that's something I need to factor in aswell.
Cheers for your posts.

I got what I thought was good gear and you dont need to spend that much, I spent about 350 on jacket about 200 on pants 190 for helmet, 45 for boots and 90 on gloves, try stuff on especially helmets then look for deals I tried on alot of expensive helmets but the one I got felt better than alot of the expensive ones. Got the jacket on special same with the pants and got second hand boots that had barely been worn. so for me my gear cost just under $1000.... oh and on your gear make sure there are lots of vents... and removable liners cause they get bloody hot on a good day

[steve_t]

A lot of you guys mentioned proper gear - I didn't realise good ones cost around 2k.. so that's something I need to factor in aswell.

I need to think a little bit about affordability etc. that's something I'll do on the weekend. Plus need to convince the missus :facepalm:

Cheers for your posts.

For value for money protection, I don't think you can go past Quasi's Black Rock gear. $595 for a leather jacket and pants that zip together is pretty awesome. The specs are up there with high end gear with triple stitched seams, A grade leather etc

Hamiltron is just down the road from Aux. You can come down and try on stuff so you know everything is going to be the perfect fit for you :niceone:

Check out here http://www.qmoto.co.nz/products/new-products/qstreet-black-rock-jackets

As for the missus, I'm sure she'll think you're even hotter when on a bike and as for the weekend riding, it'll probably start like that but you'll probably find yourself choosing to take the bike during the week when you can too :sunny:

[zmlam]

I came across this same junction several years ago - um/ah'ing about if it was OK to get a bike because of its safety disadvantages. Also had parents that would freak out if I ran the idea by them.

Took me a few years later before I decided to take the plunge. Think that extra years added some maturity.

What I found really useful is to read up about it - books/this forum. There are resources out there on what to watch up for, pitfalls that people can make . I read them as part of my research into getting gear (which was before I got the bike), and for me, that has really helped me with a greater awareness and respect and preparation -> all helps with being a safe driver and being safe from drivers.

Also if you haven't gotten a helmet already - check out the discussion about Sharp ratings which influenced my decision on which helmet to get. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/1562-Choosing-a-Motorcycle-Helmet

Also for fuel consumption, 250cc bike are cheaper to run, though I have heard from other riders (and on mags) that bikes 400cc+ eat as much fuel as a 1.6l car!

Hope that helps.

[ynot slow]

Do it,go but gear then a bike,that way you have decent lid etc.Go the offroad bike way for learners and restricted.That way when you drop the bike damage is minimal,bikes like DR,XR, types,and are fun to ride to beach etc and learn a few skills and have fun at same time,the balance etc will be usefull on road,and buying a 250 road bike is costlier than a similar offroad type bike.

Then your driving will improve as you WILL look for bikes as you are one,best of luck and crossing the road is dangerous,look at Chch streets,anytime danger happens.

[NOWOOL]

Chances of someone else hitting you are 32% less if you are riding a motorcycle (based mathematically on size). Mind you, you have to take in account how you ride, where you ride, etc. Contrary to popular belief, riding a motorbike doesn't mean eventually at some time you will drop it or be in an accident. I've rode bikes and cars for 35 years and haven't had an accident with either (touch wood!).
It all comes down to how you ride and your experience level. I own a very fast car and a very slow car. I do notice I drive much faster in the fast car because it is fun. That's why (along with comfort) I bought a Harley rather than a sports-bike.

cost wise: once you remove the initial purchase price and insurance and are willing to do the small maintenance stuff yourself, a bike ends up costing about the same as a car per k (although the Harley hasn't cost anything for repairs while my cars have).

That all said, I woudn't rely soley on a bike for sole transport.

[aprilia_RS250]

I'm in my mid 20s and I've been thinking about replacing my car...

You forgot the added benefits of bikes being pussy magnets....

[GPXchick]

OMG do it get rid of the cage. I did. Had never ridden a bike in my life or a scooter. I went and had a training session with Trevor Birchall (awesome instructor) and sat my Basic Handling skills cert. Went straight to the AA sat my learners and went out and Bought my Kawasaki GPX. LOVE IT. I was a little green at first, however once you feel the bike and know it won't drop you or vice versa. You just ride and ride and ride and don't wanna stop. I have clocked 1165 kms in 14 days and still havent left auckland :scooter::woohoo:

30 bucks gas gets me 470 kms - just look at the price of gas. I should also state for the record i'm a chick, i was born blind in my right eye and had never ridden a bike EVER. You can do it.

[KevinD]

I don't believe dropping the bike is an inevitability (touch wood)

My experience (25+ Years) is expect to fall off about once or twice a year, once your experienced (2+ years). This means anything from dropping the bike while turning in a drive as a result of loosing your balance, up to throwing it down the road for a myriad of reasons.

Careful people don't ride (enjoy) motorcycles, they simply limp on :)

[george formby]

My experience (25+ Years) is expect to fall off about once or twice a year, once your experienced (2+ years). This means anything from dropping the bike while turning in a drive as a result of loosing your balance, up to throwing it down the road for a myriad of reasons.

Careful people don't ride (enjoy) motorcycles, they simply limp on :)

When I started riding, on a trail bike, I learned to fall off riding off road. Wet grass, bogs & streams take no prisoners but I never fell off on the road. I chucked my first big bike through a hedge, once, due to over exuberance & lack of ground clearance, had to drop a bike when I came across a lorry blocking the road late at night & in the last 18 years have had my bike get away from me once in the garage whilst learning to use a paddock stand.

I concede a new rider has a fairly high chance of a topple or two, trying to put a foot down on the long side of a camber, parking the bike facing downhill so it rolls off the stand, misjudging the weight etc but practice & education make this stage pretty short lived. After that it's all about thinking ahead & using good judgment.
I have friends who regularly have a topple after 30 years of riding & others who cannot remember the last time their bike went over.

Not something I would worry about. Just don't buy brand new on HP for your first bike.

[superman]

You get a bike because you love it...
not to save money, because you won't

For me it's both.

Transport everyday with no bike $18 (2 hours 20mins). Transport everyday with bike, $9. (1 hour 30mins)

Haven't dropped her yet, came close once in the garage when the side stand hadn't sprung out to full extension but managed to grab her and shove her back level. 250s are only light.

Including rear tyre, rego, oil, insurance (only 3rd party) bike is cheaper and much more practical. Minus all the gear. But I'd definitely recommend getting all the gear, as with a seat belt you want a just in a case. Even if you ride like Katman (you'll find out...)

I got my bike in November, and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made, gives your brain a good workout every time you ride it. Also be prepared to get into things like oil changes (way cheaper to do yourself, and happen quite often on these high revving machines).

[george formby]

For me it's both.

Transport everyday with no bike $18 (2 hours 20mins). Transport everyday with bike, $9. (1 hour 30mins)

Haven't dropped her yet, came close once in the garage when the side stand hadn't sprung out to full extension but managed to grab her and shove her back level. 250s are only light.

Including rear tyre, rego, oil, insurance (only 3rd party) bike is cheaper and much more practical. Minus all the gear. But I'd definitely recommend getting all the gear, as with a seat belt you want a just in a case. Even if you ride like Katman (you'll find out...)

I got my bike in November, and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made, gives your brain a good workout every time you ride it. Also be prepared to get into things like oil changes (way cheaper to do yourself, and happen quite often on these high revving machines).

Fair call, I change the oil every 5000k, a bit anal maybe but it is the life blood. $40ish a pop for oil & a filter every 10k, about $8.
It was a lot cheaper for me until I found out my bike has two drain bolts:facepalm:

I chew a back tire up in about 6-7k, $360ish:(

[superman]

I chew a back tire up in about 6-7k, $360ish:(

Bugger, with the tiny 130/70 Ninja back tyre I'm just getting my first replacement, a pirelli sport demon for $158 fitted... granted it is a sport demon...

[george formby]

Bugger, with the tiny 130/70 Ninja back tyre I'm just getting my first replacement, a pirelli sport demon for $158 fitted... granted it is a sport demon...

I bet it lasts a helluva lot longer too.

I'm going to put a begging bowl out, rego for the car & bike are due, rear tire is poked & the tax man has just had a word with me. Received the rego & tax request on the same day, it's ok, I can give up eating to compensate.:rolleyes:

[Drew]

Bugger, with the tiny 130/70 Ninja back tyre I'm just getting my first replacement, a pirelli sport demon for $158 fitted... granted it is a sport demon...

Sport demons are good tyres. Last well and plenty of grip.

[scracha]

My experience (25+ Years) is expect to fall off about once or twice a year, once your experienced (2+ years). This means anything from dropping the bike while turning in a drive as a result of loosing your balance, up to throwing it down the road for a myriad of reasons.

Careful people don't ride (enjoy) motorcycles, they simply limp on :)

Then you're doing something SERIOUSLY wrong? On the road, I fell off six times in the first 3 years and then once over the next 14 years. I don't think crashing every year is normal. Twice is just bonkers.

[KevinD]

Then you're doing something SERIOUSLY wrong? On the road, I fell off six times in the first 3 years and then once over the next 14 years. I don't think crashing every year is normal. Twice is just bonkers.

I didn't say CRASH, I said drop the bike. My best drop I think was on the desert road where I hit black ice in the early morning, all you can do is lay back and enjoy the slide (or not :( ) while watching the near new RZ500 shed plastic all over the road. In those days I did 25000-30000 km a year.

[CookMySock]

The safety depends largely on rider attitude, I feel more at ease on a bike due to the increased visibility. A number of near accidents for me were avoided largely because of increased awareness, of course if I was in my bright yellow van they may not have been near accidents at all. Respect the ride, and chances are you'll be fine.bogan is right.

On a bike you occupy far less space and should a sticky situation arrive you simply ride around it. Bikers often come to grief when they panic and grab a huge dollop of front or rear brake when they would be better served to just steer. Gaps between cars even in opposing lanes will easily fit a large motorcycle down them.

Of course, it becomes clear very quickly you can now be a complete arse on a bike and mostly stay out of trouble - with the caveat that you had better make sound decisions well in advance.

[scracha]

I didn't say CRASH, I said drop the bike. My best drop I think was on the desert road where I hit black ice in the early morning, all you can do is lay back and enjoy the slide (or not :( ) while watching the near new RZ500 shed plastic all over the road. In those days I did 25000-30000 km a year.

Ok, if I take slides on black ice and gravel out then then I've crashed once..... but doing less miles (20,000 km p/y). As for black ice.....I'm not 19 and bulletproof anymore...I take the car :rolleyes: