Reasonable risk

[p.dath]

This post is a bit of fun, so don't take it too seriously.

Recently I've been talking to someone I know that suffers from claustrophobia. Just to bring you up to speed quickly, claustrophobia is the fear of enclosed spaces. More specifically, it is an anxiety disorder where the patient fears *what might happen* in the enclosed space. That bit is important. It is not the enclosed space they fear, but what might happen.

So, for example, its not an enclosed lift they fear, but what might happen in the lift (such as it falling).

And, I guess, it becomes a disorder when it is severe enough to cause disruption to their life.


And that got me thinking about motorcycling and safety clothing in the back of my mind. Motorcyclists wear safety gear not because they fear motorcycling (I hope!) but because they fear what might happen (and off). And in the same way that a person with claustrophobia mitigates the risk by avoiding enclosed spaces, some motorcycle riders mitigate the risk by wearing protection clothing.

Claustrophobia is considered a disorder because the bulk of the population don't consider an enclosed space to be "risky". Someone with claustrophobia feels the exact opposite of course.

So is motorcycling a disorder? Or is motorcycling *with* safety clothing the disorder?

[Grasshopperus]

We want to have our cake and eat it too.

This is particularly true of Fatt Max's gang.

[scumdog]

We all have degrees of it - some see the ATGATT with back-protectors, armoured gloves etc as nervous-ninnies - and they in turn see the open-face helmet, no gloves and wearing jeans and sneaker crowd as risk-taking idiots.

Each sees a different lavel of risk

(Although some have NO perception of risk at all)

In between lies the ideal level of protection.

[avgas]

How many people die in lifts these days?

How many die on motorbikes?

Now compare the figures of those who ride motorbikes vs those whom use lifts....

ATGATT is not a 'fear' thing, its facts and figures thing. Like driving with lights on at night. You can get home without your lights on, but you feel like increasing that chance of survival and decreasing your chance of crashing. Turning on the lights does this.

Unfortunately many of us learnt lesson the hard way with ATGATT, as it is not as obvious a thing as light at night.

[Swoop]

"OSH" is the disorder.

Stifling innovation, business and progress.

[steelphoenix]

LOL - allow me to point out that your comparison is a false assertion, as claustophobia is a phobia (by definition, an irrational fear), as opposed to ATGATT, which is reasonable risk mitigation.

That said, I'm amused by this post! :)

[avgas]

"OSH" is the disorder.

Stifling innovation, business and progress.
Pffft if you think its bad here - don't move to NSW and deal with Workcover.
http://www.workcover.nsw.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx
Make OSH seem like Girl Guides.

[Tunahunter]

I guess the answer is that people fear the consequences of things. For instance, most people love to fly but many have a fear of the plane crashing - that converts to " a fear of flying" - but its not is it?.

I recall when seat belts became mandaory in cars - most thought it was a stupid rule (including myself) - but nowadays I feel kind of naked when not wearing a seatbelt. That's a fear of driving? - hell no - its a fear of needlessly having one's face mangled and chest going from convex to concave. Others may call it social engineering or conditioning. Thus we will see that in a generation or two, people won't use hand held cellphones in cars because of a fear of crashing through inattention.

[Usarka]

Anyone with a genuine phobia of falling off a bike probably wouldn't ride one!

I have a work phobia.

[Fatt Max]

I guess the answer is that people fear the consequences of things. For instance, most people love to fly but many have a fear of the plane crashing - that converts to " a fear of flying" - but its not is it?

Yep, that is how I see it, summed up very well.

Yes Grasshopperus, the FBMC do not fear the road, its the bakeries on the road not having any pies that scares the shite out of us.

Finally, and to round this off, for the record, I have NEVER ridden a motorbike in a lft. I have, however, ridden a VERY rude young lady in a lift to which she had the service key and could stop mid elevation.

[phill-k]

, . I have, however, ridden a VERY rude young lady in a lift to which she had the service key and could stop mid elevation.

Pictures or it didn't happen:gob: on second thoughts perhaps not!

[Fatt Max]

Pictures or it didn't happen:gob: on second thoughts perhaps not!

Yeah, nah.....20 years ago mate, greasy hair, stubble, missing teeth and a hairy arse....I didnt look much better myself....

[Ocean1]

"OSH" is the disorder.

Stifling innovation, business and progress.

+1

Yup.

[george formby]

I literally feel naked without ATGATT & my fear is having my snail laughed at, more so than gravel rash.

In the immortal words from Waynes World, looks just like a penis only smaller.

Sorry, to much info.:violin:

[SPP]

I'm Algophobic

[PrincessBandit]

Mmm. Even immediately after crashing I had no fear of riding (back in the saddle 3 weeks after, broken collarbone and all...) but it has made me more conscious of the potential for shite when things go wrong.

We all ride not expecting to come off, yet the reality is that for many of us it will happen at some stage with varying degrees of seriousness.

While I am soooo tempted at times to ride near naked because of the heat, I acquiesce to sanity (and out of consideration to those who would have to see me) and give into taking the air conditioned car.

[Fatt Max]

While I am soooo tempted at times to ride near naked because of the heat.....

Far canal.....!!!!

Hope this warm weather continues.......:woohoo:

[Mom]

We all have degrees of it - some see the ATGATT with back-protectors, armoured gloves etc as nervous-ninnies - and they in turn see the open-face helmet, no gloves and wearing jeans and sneaker crowd as risk-taking idiots.

Each sees a different lavel of risk

(Although some have NO perception of risk at all)

In between lies the ideal level of protection.

When I first started riding all I had was a helmet, a real old dunger given to me. Had hunks out of it, the works. But, it was a helmet and the law said I had to wear one. I was nursing at the time, saw some serious road burns from a lack of gloves, it took me no time at all to wear "ski gloves". I believe they were really cheap :yes: They had the added advantage of keeping my hands warm.

I used to wear my pristine, white, nursey shoes on my bike, they used to get so filthy I resorted to using house paint from time to time, to whiten them up :pinch:

I thought I was the bees knees when I got a Line 7 full suit. Wearing that I was bullet proof, warm and dry to boot. Had that for years.

Never wore boots, until many, many years down the track.

Wore an open face helmet with a rose patterned balaclava type arrangement, with my mat black helmet and steel cap Doc's :headbang: on the Harley of then hubby's choice. Oh, I had graduated to a leather bomber style jacket by then too.

Gear is relative, common sense dicates we should wear it. Helmets are compulsory, lets leace it at that.




I literally feel naked without ATGATT & my fear

Cant comment on your snail, but I have to admit to feeling a bit naked myself unless I am ATGATT. Though as PB says it is sometimes tempting to ride naked in this weather :o


Mmm. While I am soooo tempted at times to ride near naked because of the heat, I acquiesce to sanity (and out of consideration to those who would have to see me) and give into taking the air conditioned car.

I hate summer riding in gear. Bring on winter :yes:

[hellokitty]

I am claustraphobic and am ATGATT all the way. I am okay in all the gear, even in the stifling heat because it is my choice. I get stressed when people are in my space or I am trapped/cornered in a small space. I only allow a few people in my personal space (lol - husband)
My Mum is claustraphobic too and has to wear an open face helmet = I have become used to it as I don't want to risk my face in a crash.

[vifferman]

Like Mom, my earlier riding 'experience' was quite different to today's. For years, I wore an open-faced helmet, leather jacket if it was cold, gloves if it was cold, wet-weather gear (Line7, like the cops did) if it was wet.
I didn't own a full-face helmet until my third bike, no bike boots until my fourth bike, no leather pants until about 12 years ago (I've been riding for 37ish).
Now I usually wear all the gear, but not for "just nipping down to the shops".

So what?
To be honest, the spills I've had while wearing minimal gear haven't resulted in significantly more injury than those where I was wearing all the gear. To date, my worst injuries have been from a fall in the garage (not motorcylce related).

[baptist]

Nooooooooooooo:shit:!!!!!!! anything but the crap windy rainy days :crybaby:

[QUOTE=hellokitty;1129995185]I am claustraphobic and am ATGATT all the way. I am okay in all the gear, even in the stifling heat because it is my choice. I get stressed when people are in my space or I am trapped/cornered in a small space. I only allow a few people in my personal space (lol - husband)
My Mum is claustraphobic too and has to wear an open face helmet = I have become used to it as I don't want to risk my face in a crash.

I am Claustraphobic as well, lifts, nah stairs are far healthier!!! Potholing....... freaked out (idiot for trying, mind you never got far) I do not fear wearing a full face helmet though, would not ride in an open face.... maybe I need to investigate my "phobia" of not riding unless ATGATT :innocent:

[spajohn]

LOL - allow me to point out that your comparison is a false assertion...That said, I'm amused by this post! :)

+1

Love hearing the inner musings of the OP's mind, but bang on Steelphoenix.

[shrub]

We all have degrees of it - some see the ATGATT with back-protectors, armoured gloves etc as nervous-ninnies - and they in turn see the open-face helmet, no gloves and wearing jeans and sneaker crowd as risk-taking idiots.

Each sees a different lavel of risk

(Although some have NO perception of risk at all)

In between lies the ideal level of protection.

I fit in both camps. I have a Bell 500 open face lid that I wear when i pop down to the boozer or for cruising around town, but even going to the shop I wear boots - either a set of ancient Docs or tramping boots and a leather jacket and jeans - often Kevlar. On the open road I wear a Shoei XR1100, Sidi boots and riding jacket and pants - leather or cordura depending on the weather.

In my open face lid I get some strange looks from the ATTGATT brigade and have even had one caring chap in high vis on an adventure bike wag his finger at me, but I figure it's all about recognising risk and being willing to live with a given level of risk. Hell, if I was really serious about safety I'd sell the bike and buy a Volvo which I would only ever drive while wearing a condom and a high vis vest, but I don't, my primary transport is my bike. I ride because I love the feeling of riding and the fact that at any moment I may become grievously wounded is a risk I am willing to take because as far as I'm concerned the pleasure warrants the risk, and it's the same wearing my open face lid. On a hot, sunny day I love the feeling of the wind in my face and while I recognise that I am taking a higher risk than if I was wearing my Shoei, I am willing to take that risk.

And ultimately no matter what I wear, my safety is decided by how I ride my bike.

[Katman]

And ultimately no matter what I wear, my safety is decided by how I ride my bike.

Absolutely bang on.

[5150]

So how do you get a claustraphobic person to wear a helmet? :wacko:

[bluninja]

On my first bike I wore only a helmet and normal clothes. I never had an off (even when my back tyre went pop on a bend). I've now had 2 accidents on the road and a few more on the track whilst wearing full leathers, boots, gloves and back protector. Perhaps, rather than protecting me, the safety gear is making me take more risks and causing me to have incidents...or perhaps the gear is tarmacophilic and is seeking contact with the road:eek5:

In terms of fearing riding after an off. My RSVR was written off on 9th October 2001 and I collected my next RSVR on 19th December 2001. I was still using crutches to get around when off the bike. However I fell off at Manfield in the rain racing on the Saturday, and rode like a nana round Pukekohe the next day on the damp and rapidly drying track. It really hurt....that nobody noticed :angry:

[p.dath]

So how do you get a claustraphobic person to wear a helmet? :wacko:

Remember, it's not the confined space that people with claustrophobia are scared of. :)

[Shadows]

I have, however, ridden a VERY rude young lady in a lift to which she had the service key and could stop mid elevation.

She must have been fucking rude, not to have at least waited until you were at full elevation.

[imdying]

More specifically, it is an anxiety disorder where the patient fears *what might happen* in the enclosed space. That bit is important. It is not the enclosed space they fear, but what might happen.

Claustrophobia is considered a disorder because the bulk of the population don't consider an enclosed space to be "risky". Someone with claustrophobia feels the exact opposite of course.

So is motorcycling a disorder? Or is motorcycling *with* safety clothing the disorder?No, claustrophobia is an irrational fear of what might happen in the enclosed space; the bulk of the population could have it, and it would still be irrational.

The damage from falling off is real, it is not irrational behaviour to want to mitigate that risk, it's called common sense.

You are way off base, but interesting none the less :)

[p.dath]

No, claustrophobia is an irrational fear of what might happen in the enclosed space; the bulk of the population could have it, and it would still be irrational.

Ahh, but irrational to whoom? The person with the condition doesn't think it's irrational. :)

[imdying]

Ahh, but irrational to whoom? The person with the condition doesn't think it's irrational. :)Riiiight... I will let you know when the patients start running the nut houses, you'll fit right in :laugh:

Irrational has a definition, look it up.

[oldrider]

So is motorcycling a disorder? Or is motorcycling *with* safety clothing the disorder?

Safety "fanatics" insist on there being laws passed to protect you from yourself! (Their judgement is always infallible)

They take away your freedom of choice to make your own decisions according to your own powers of reason for every situation.

The safety "fanatics" are the real disorder! IMHO. :weird: ( No, that does not mean I do not support safe practice and the use of safety gear!)