Can a stock NC30 be competitive?

[racefactory]

What's the best class to race a NC30 in? Is there anything it can be competitive in with stock form?

These bikes are expensive and hard to modify and I'd rather keep it stock with just good tyres and just suspension tuning.

[Robert Taylor]

What's the best class to race a NC30 in? Is there anything it can be competitive in with stock form?

These bikes are expensive and hard to modify and I'd rather keep it stock with just good tyres and just suspension tuning.

The stock suspension on those is so far from raceable ( competitively ) that any ''tuning'' is pretty much academic. That sounds ''harsh'' but its the reality

[lostinflyz]

junk the forks, junk the shock (especially the shock) and you've made a massive improvement. Theres basic mods that makes them much much better, in both handling and engine, that don't require much effort.

a stock nc30 is pretty slow now days. its good in pre-89 but even then itll prob need mods to keep up with faster bikes (i.e. those with mods). In f3 its a no hoper.

But competitve is a realative term. Its competitive against other nc30's, and all other 400's. Against new kit it shows its age.

[HenryDorsetCase]

^^^^What they said.

If you want to be competitive, buy a sorted ProTwins SV650.

If you just want a trackday bike, use the NC. But bear in mind if its stock it is 20 years old. and look where the rear shock is (right there by the rear headers... it gets HOT in there), and how tiny the shock is. (esp the first gen non remote reservoir shock). And the forks too. If you're spending money on one, start there. bring money.

[Grumph]

It's all been said but there's one more thing too....
When you race one of these standard you may well spin a big end bearing...
Back in the day the first two to be raced in ChCh both did big ends - looking at them the problem was poorly finished oil holes on the journals.
In the motor the first step should be properly radiusing the oil holes. Then re clearance to the max available in the shell range - they're way too tight standard.

[racefactory]

The stock suspension on those is so far from raceable ( competitively ) that any ''tuning'' is pretty much academic. That sounds ''harsh'' but its the reality

By tuning I mean different spring rates and rebuilding rear shock.

[racefactory]

It's all been said but there's one more thing too....
When you race one of these standard you may well spin a big end bearing...
Back in the day the first two to be raced in ChCh both did big ends - looking at them the problem was poorly finished oil holes on the journals.
In the motor the first step should be properly radiusing the oil holes. Then re clearance to the max available in the shell range - they're way too tight standard.

Interesting. Never heard of an nc30 running a main bearing like that. Were they modded bikes or 89's do you know? 89's run dangerously lean from factory, but i suppose that would be a top end thing instead.

[Drew]

This is a long thread considering a simple NO was all that was required.

[Grumph]

This is a long thread considering a simple NO was all that was required.

I quite agree....

the two that appeared on track in ChCh were low Km imports which were very good tidy examples - couldn't tell you the year of manufacture.
I said big ends and that's what I meant...this was at the tail end of the period where VF hondas were doing cranks commonly.
The cranks I saw at the time were poorly finished - good enough for road use but sustained high revs and heat showed up the lack of attention to detail.
Interestingly enough, "ordinary" VF400 shells fitted - Casbolts didn't have anything at all on the model - not even a parts fische at the time.

Anyone know what happened to the two bikes the Roberts family had ?
Those were seriously trick - but not enormously quick...

[Mental Trousers]

There's lots of NC30's around making up the mid/rear part of the F3 fields. To be at the front of F3 you need to start with a big pile of someone elses money and go from there.

As for Posties Junior, they do better in there but still, you'll never win unless the 600's etc blow up.

[HenryDorsetCase]

To be at the front you need to start with a big pile of someone elses money and go from there.



fixed that for you ;-)

[RDjase]

There's lots of NC30's around making up the mid/rear part of the F3 fields. To be at the front of F3 you need to start with a big pile of someone elses money and go from there.

As for Posties Junior, they do better in there but still, you'll never win unless the 600's etc blow up.

The great thing about the 400's is they can do Pre89 and F3.

Depends if you want to be super competitive or do 2 classes and be happy having a battle down the feild

I would go with 2 classes and more track time :msn-wink:..............as long as they arnt back to back races:eek:

[Robert Taylor]

By tuning I mean different spring rates and rebuilding rear shock.

So, going internal

1) Forks. Race Tech emulators with a modification specific to road race / track day. Remove and machine damper rods so they actually assemble more concentrically within the tubes. Ohlins springs fit straight in. Bera in mind that there are likely wear issues with bushings etc, not apparent until stripped

2) Rear end. Respring at minimum, Ohlins springs often fit these with minimal adaptation. Some of these NC30 shocks are rebuildable, some are not. If it is rebuildable the stock shock piston has tiny ports and needs to be thrown away as far as possible. If its got a 46mm bore body tube we can fit an Ohlins piston and valving which actually does a better job than Race Tech, but we would also fit a Race Tech flow seperator which mimics an Ohlins shaft jet. BUT, the rear ride height in these needs lifting up considerably to attain track day / road race geometry so youd need to find some way of lifting the ride height on what is a fixed length shock.

The above is the absolute mimimum to achieve a decent standard of grip, geometry, tyre life etc.

[PirateJafa]

So, going internal

1) Forks. Race Tech emulators with a modification specific to road race / track day. Remove and machine damper rods so they actually assemble more concentrically within the tubes. Ohlins springs fit straight in. Bera in mind that there are likely wear issues with bushings etc, not apparent until stripped

2) Rear end. Respring at minimum, Ohlins springs often fit these with minimal adaptation. Some of these NC30 shocks are rebuildable, some are not. If it is rebuildable the stock shock piston has tiny ports and needs to be thrown away as far as possible. If its got a 46mm bore body tube we can fit an Ohlins piston and valving which actually does a better job than Race Tech, but we would also fit a Race Tech flow seperator which mimics an Ohlins shaft jet. BUT, the rear ride height in these needs lifting up considerably to attain track day / road race geometry so youd need to find some way of lifting the ride height on what is a fixed length shock.

The above is the absolute mimimum to achieve a decent standard of grip, geometry, tyre life etc.

I would imagine this would throw it out of Pre-89s though?

[montsta56]

As for Posties Junior, they do better in there but still, you'll never win unless the 600's etc blow up.

Thats Bullshit.

[montsta56]

I would imagine this would throw it out of Pre-89s though?

No It would still be eligible for posties

[satchriossi]

How would you know what valves, springs etc were needed? Would he have to drop his bike off at your workshop for you to physically bounce on it to get a feel for what's needed or would you be able to work it all out based on his weight and need only the actual suspension parts dropped in for you to work on?

[Deano]

As for Posties Junior, they do better in there but still, you'll never win unless the 600's etc blow up.


Thats Bullshit.

It's bang on the money actually.

I had a good old time on my stock 89 CBR400RR in post classic junior (2nd at Vic Club to Chris Sales on his hot rod XR500 ), and F3, giving the SV's and hotted 400's (440-450) a run (top ten at club level). But you're never going to win on it. Unless maybe you're a motorcycling legend. My best at Manners was a low 20; even Scracha is doing 18's on his Frankencane 600.


The great thing about the 400's is they can do Pre89 and F3.

Depends if you want to be super competitive or do 2 classes and be happy having a battle down the feild

I would go with 2 classes and more track time :msn-wink:..............as long as they arnt back to back races:eek:

I chose to sell the 400 and get an SV (if you can't beat em, join em) - I'm only racing in one class now (2 on track) but running at the pointy end of Pro Twins and F3. Much more fun !!

[Deano]

How would you know what valves, springs etc were needed? Would he have to drop his bike off at your workshop for you to physically bounce on it to get a feel for what's needed or would you be able to work it all out based on his weight and need only the actual suspension parts dropped in for you to work on?

And therein lies the art of suspension !! LOL :bleh:

[Drew]

How would you know what valves, springs etc were needed? Would he have to drop his bike off at your workshop for you to physically bounce on it to get a feel for what's needed or would you be able to work it all out based on his weight and need only the actual suspension parts dropped in for you to work on?

A photo of the shock out would tell if it was rebuildable or sealed.

The rest I would bet, he knows from having done a few.

[Deano]

Kissy did ok at Wangas on a VFR400 (6th), and a guy did well at Paeroa in 2009 (3rd) but I very much doubt they are stock.

[crazy man]

a good rider could or should do 118 at manfeild with good rubber. if thats any help

[Robert Taylor]

How would you know what valves, springs etc were needed? Would he have to drop his bike off at your workshop for you to physically bounce on it to get a feel for what's needed or would you be able to work it all out based on his weight and need only the actual suspension parts dropped in for you to work on?

We have a lot of empirical background experience with this model and basically we would get the spring rates 95% correct straight off, without any need to see the bike. We have in fact built about 15 or so Ohlins shocks for that model, they are long since out of production ex Ohlins. Experience with those gives us a solid baseline of setting that we apply to the stock shock and the forks are a no brainer. One of our further strengths is that if the spring rates turn out to be not quite correct we exchange at no further cost excepting courier recovery fees. We also provide easy to follow and concise setup info and are always available to answer questions by phone or e-mail.

We are no the cheapest as we dont cut corners and are always available to help.

[Deano]

a good rider could or should do 118 at manfeild with good rubber. if thats any help

My best on a stock 89 CBR400RR was a low 1.20. Jarrod Wintle did a 1.19 which might have been the record for a 400, not sure. These are winter series times.

If its any help, I still think I am a 'good' rider. :msn-wink: Much quicker on an SV

[montsta56]

Yeah 18's at manfield is more than possible. Jason Hulme on a fairly stock 30 beat Ernie at HD during the tri series. An Ernies is aloooot quicker than scracha :gob:

[Mental Trousers]

Thats Bullshit.

Only bullshit if you've thrown every Tyga bit they make at one. He's talking about a stocker.

[montsta56]

tyga gear only makes it look better not go any better lol. Jason Hulme seems to go alright on his stocker but he's quick on anything !!!

[Mental Trousers]

Everybody knows that bling makes you go faster mate!!

[montsta56]

thats my philosphy exactly as long as it looks good who gives a fuck . lol

[scracha]

Yeah 18's at manfield is more than possible. Jason Hulme on a fairly stock 30 beat Ernie at HD during the tri series. An Ernies is aloooot quicker than scracha :gob:

Seem to remember flipping the bird whilst passing a certain NC30 rider on the back straight

[roadracingoldfart]

What's the best class to race a NC30 in? Is there anything it can be competitive in with stock form?

These bikes are expensive and hard to modify and I'd rather keep it stock with just good tyres and just suspension tuning.

So just give it a go as standard and see if the racing lark is really what you want to carry on with , (maybe on a diff bike)


This is a long thread considering a simple NO was all that was required.

Ohh wank Drew.


Thats Bullshit.

No ... Thats bullshit


a good rider could or should do 118 at manfeild with good rubber. if thats any help

Hes never raced before with a question like this post so hes not in that league


Seem to remember flipping the bird whilst passing a certain NC30 rider on the back straight

Keep both hands on the bars Steevie , its safer.

[ellipsis]

...just do it son...when you ride faster than the NC30 can go as it is , you will have answered your own question and you'll know what the next step is...trying to catch up is what the game is for most of us...

[crazy man]

My best on a stock 89 CBR400RR was a low 1.20. Jarrod Wintle did a 1.19 which might have been the record for a 400, not sure. These are winter series times.

If its any help, I still think I am a 'good' rider. :msn-wink: Much quicker on an SVthe lap record for a 400 is 1.13.8 done over 10 years ago.

[Deano]

Seem to remember flipping the bird whilst passing a certain NC30 rider on the back straight

Case closed ? You're not going to win anything on an NC30.

[Deano]

the lap record for a 400 is 1.13.8 done over 10 years ago.

How stock was that ? Summer or winter ? Apples with apples mate.

[crazy man]

done in Summer and winter by 2 diffient riders. both bikes around 66 hp.. a good stock nc30 would be 59 hp. one a zxr400 other gsxr 400

[steveyb]

So the answer to the question is No, the stock NC30 is not competitive in the racing class for which it is elegible.
As a base to start racing and learn the in's and out's, if you fit the bike and like riding it, it is one that is a great place to start with.
Then if you get keen, it is possible, at least on paper, to make 100 bhp from such a bike. By keen, I mean KEEEEEENNNN!!!!


http://mngforce.typepad.com/

Cheers.

[CHOPPA]

Just race your 600. It will suck racing something lots slower then your used to riding on the road

[ttmadness]

Ok thanks guys.

I might get an RVF400 and just enjoy reliable racing with the middle/rear pack. I'm not looking to spend crazy money and win anything. Just want to go hard and push the bike.

Does anyone know if the RVF is still likely to blow crank bearings?

[Deano]

Just race your 600. It will suck racing something lots slower then your used to riding on the road

I have a CBR1000 and race an SV650. Racing is way more fun, even on the slower bike.

[roogazza]

the lap record for a 400 is 1.13.8 done over 10 years ago.

Mmmmmm 6 seconds 10 yrs ago who were those old fast guys ? ( I mean young guys )

[Deano]

Mmmmmm 6 seconds 10 yrs ago who were those old fast guys ? ( I mean young guys )

LOL - bet it wasn't on a stocker - but nice try Mr Troll

[roogazza]

LOL - bet it wasn't on a stocker - but nice try Mr Troll

Probably had Ohlins ! :corn: <_<

[crazy man]

Probably had Ohlins ! :corn: <_<just think of it ohlins would of been 1.11.8 in f3!

[Mental Trousers]

Just race your 600. It will suck racing something lots slower then your used to riding on the road

I have a CBR1000 and race an SV650. Racing is way more fun, even on the slower bike.

Bet you ride the SV much faster for more of the time than the CBR too.

[crazy man]

Mmmmmm 6 seconds 10 yrs ago who were those old fast guys ? ( I mean young guys )http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/26/162000626_full.jpg

[crazy man]

terry fitzgerald was the other fastie

[lostinflyz]

Ok thanks guys.

I might get an RVF400 and just enjoy reliable racing with the middle/rear pack. I'm not looking to spend crazy money and win anything. Just want to go hard and push the bike.

Does anyone know if the RVF is still likely to blow crank bearings?

Havent heard of any having going in a long time. Mine was fine when i had one. If it hasn't gone by now, it isn't going to.

[Kickaha]

Just race your 600. It will suck racing something lots slower then your used to riding on the road

Nah it doesn't actually, Buckets is more fun than any other class I've raced, it's about how close the racing is, not how fast it is


just think of it ohlins would of been 1.11.8 in f3!

If Dukie did the suspension he'd be doing 1.10 with one hand tied behind his back

[crazy man]

Ok thanks guys.

I might get an RVF400 and just enjoy reliable racing with the middle/rear pack. I'm not looking to spend crazy money and win anything. Just want to go hard and push the bike.

Does anyone know if the RVF is still likely to blow crank bearings?the RVF would be the bike l would go for trouble is they cost twice the price of a nc30 but do have better heads on them

[blackdog]

excuse me if I am deluded, but after a quick read through, aren't ttmadness and racefactory the same person?

(on topic again i did a scorching 1:29 on a zxr400 off the shop floor last time i was there)

[crazy man]

excuse me if I am deluded, but after a quick read through, aren't ttmadness and racefactory the same person?

(on topic again i did a scorching 1:29 on a zxr400 off the shop floor last time i was there)you better get out there racing again l need someone to bet

[gatch]

Noo way will a stock nc30 be front row competitive.

Competitive with 80hp and some bling suspenders maybe.

But as has been mentioned, bring money, all of it.

I'm keen to get mine to a track..

I race a 57 Norton Dominator, its slower in a straight line than my vfr, but it's WAY more fun..

[White trash]

Nah it doesn't actually, Buckets is more fun than any other class I've raced, it's about how close the racing is, not how fast it is


Ummmm, but your Bucket is faster than your road bike, confirming Choppas point.

[kiwi cowboy]

Havent heard of any having going in a long time. Mine was fine when i had one. If it hasn't gone by now, it isn't going to.

With the way you treated yours the crank was probably the only straight thing left:msn-wink::bleh:

[scracha]

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/26/162000626_full.jpg

Hmm... 1/4 of field doing under 1.20's on 400's indicates either the bikes were faster or the track was quicker. I'm not knocking manual timing but the best laptimes and difference in finishing times look frankly bizarre,

[lostinflyz]

Hmm... 1/4 of field doing under 1.20's on 400's indicates either the bikes were faster or the track was quicker. I'm not knocking manual timing but the best laptimes and difference in finishing times look frankly bizarre,

who fast rides a 400 now??? Let alone a good 400. thats stock (i dont think that exists)

a indicator of what a 400 should be capable of in decent hands is jay lawences times on the hyosung last nats. that thing was as heavy as a stock 400 and as slow as a stock 400 (well a well sorted stock 400). It was the only bike all nats i ever got the chance to draft past.

[Mysteryman]

Hmm... 1/4 of field doing under 1.20's on 400's indicates either the bikes were faster or the track was quicker. I'm not knocking manual timing but the best laptimes and difference in finishing times look frankly bizarre,

The laptimes don't look that odd if you do the math (agree that the 1:13 looks a bit strange)........ But fair to say that the top three were consistently doing 18's

[roadracingoldfart]

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/26/162000626_full.jpg

Yip thats the guy , Scott on his :rolleyes: standard Kwaka 400. :msn-wink:

If memory serves me Nathan went a tad quicker than that on his Kwaka.

[Deano]

Probably had Ohlins ! :corn: <_<

There is no comparison of lap times to be had between a 25 year old, stock 400, and a F3 hot rod 450 that holds the lap record. Its delusional.

[crazy man]

Hmm... 1/4 of field doing under 1.20's on 400's indicates either the bikes were faster or the track was quicker. I'm not knocking manual timing but the best laptimes and difference in finishing times look frankly bizarre,that was with tim gibbs laptimers!

[crazy man]

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/30/162000130_full.jpg

[roogazza]

There is no comparison of lap times to be had between a 25 year old, stock 400, and a F3 hot rod 450 that holds the lap record. Its delusional.

I can't imagine anyone quoting lap times at all, unless they are the record holder or very close, just makes them look sad.
Agreed, not fair to compare with past anyway, who does that.

[crazy man]

I can't imagine anyone quoting lap times at all, unless they are the record holder or very close, just makes them look sad.
Agreed, not fair to compare with past anyway, who does that.gee thanks only showing they went quicker than 19's 10 years ago!

[Deano]

I can't imagine anyone quoting lap times at all, unless they are the record holder or very close, just makes them look sad.
Agreed, not fair to compare with past anyway, who does that.

Sad ? The OP was asking for advice about the competitiveness or not of an NC30.

I provided my lap time on a stock 89 CBR400RR for comparison (in addition to other lap times from competitive bikes), in order to show that there is no class that a stock (15-20 year old) NC30 will be competitive in.

Sad is silly old buggers trying to bag this generation of racers for their results, and bragging about how fast they were back in the day :bleh:

As you were.


terry fitzgerald was the other fastie

Who now races an SV650. Would he be competitive now on a stock 400 ? No he wouldn't.

[roogazza]

If its any help, I still think I am a 'good' rider.



Sad is silly old buggers trying to bag this generation of racers for their results, and bragging about how fast they were back in the day :bleh:

Show the Bragging !!!! you know I don't work like that. I think you have matching chips on each shoulder man.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Sad is silly old buggers trying to bag this generation of racers for their results, and bragging about how fast they were back in the day :bleh:



But its the universal rule: the older I get, the better I was.

(at life: I'm not a racer)

[Deano]

Show the Bragging !!!! you know I don't work like that. I think you have matching chips on each shoulder man.

You often refer to the fast guys from the good ole days, and have hinted you were one of them before. I have no problem with that. Good on ya.

But running down current efforts......????? And your bugbear with success at the hillclimb ?

I don't have a chip on my shoulder but you basically called me sad for quoting lap times when I was simply drawing comparisons for the OP's benefit.

Excuse me for reacting......I do bite well eh. :sleep:

[Drew]

Show the Bragging !!!! you know I don't work like that. I think you have matching chips on each shoulder man.


You often refer to the fast guys from the good ole days, and have hinted you were one of them before. I have no problem with that. Good on ya.

But running down current efforts......????? And your bugbear with success at the hillclimb ?

I don't have a chip on my shoulder but you basically called me sad for quoting lap times when I was simply drawing comparisons for the OP's benefit.

Excuse me for reacting......I do bite well eh. :sleep:

You two suck at this.

Start calling each other cunts and saying ya wanna smash each others heads in fuck yas!

[crazy man]

l lied about the lap times for the time 10 years ago it was more like 1.24's around manfeild and tiers were better..they did the same times as what a 150 has done today! so they were sad riders!

[koba]

To cover the original posters question, No.
But just have a crack anyway, as I'm frequetly saying I've lost count of the amount of racers I've heard say "Shit, I should have tried this ages ago!"

To add a bit more to the debate:

Manfield round of the tri-series just past.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1764560

Note Terry Fitzgeralds times

Also note Jason Hulmes times on an NC30.

I don't think I've seen a sub 1:19 on a 400 that isn't wanked.

[Dodgy]

l lied about the lap times for the time 10 years ago it was more like 1.24's around manfeild and tiers were better..they did the same times as what a 150 has done today! so they were sad riders!

I dont believe those times at all. What times was Nathan Spargo doing on his ZXR400 around 10 - 12 years ago?

[wharfy]

I can't imagine anyone quoting lap times at all, unless they are the record holder or very close, just makes them look sad.
Agreed, not fair to compare with past anyway, who does that.

Me but I have to go back to the 60's to find comparable times :)

[Deano]

You two suck at this.

Start calling each other cunts and saying ya wanna smash each others heads in fuck yas!

Oh I thought that went without saying !! Just kidding Gaz.

[DEATH_INC.]

If they could do it then, on old tech tyres and suspension, why can't it be done now?
Anyone know? Or has the track changed or something?

[Drew]

If they could do it then, on old tech tyres and suspension, why can't it be done now?
Anyone know? Or has the track changed or something?

I don't think they were doing it then, but the track has changed a shit load.

I think the outright lap record for a bike was once set in 1990, and stood for over a decade.

[codgyoleracer]

They were indeed doing those 13's bak then, but stock they were not.

Track was a bit better nick then though. Track record now at a flat 12 is all but 2sec quicker now, & for a small bike thats plenty faster (even with the modern stuff)

The tiggy shud bust into the 11,s this year :eek:

[Paul in NZ]

There comes a time in every old warhorses life when you wake you one day and realise you are running in the 'masters' class...

An NC30 is a very very good thing - enjoy it for what it is....

[FROSTY]

Seems to me that the op should get arse on a bike-any bike. and go out and race.
He could be on a total rocketship but unless hes a freak of nature he's unlikely to be at the front of the pack. AND will learn a heap more about racecraft by mixing it up in the midfield

[onearmedbandit]

Seems to me that the op should get arse on a bike-any bike. and go out and race.
He could be on a total rocketship but unless hes a freak of nature he's unlikely to be at the front of the pack. AND will learn a heap more about racecraft by mixing it up in the midfield

If he's selling vehicles as a side interest he should be able to get his hands on a better starting point then an NC30. Actually he should buy that 600 you're selling.

[Drew]

Actually he should buy that 600 you're selling.It's a bit pricey, and a lot of bike to start racing on.

[onearmedbandit]

It's a bit pricey, and a lot of bike to start racing on.

Ah there's a link you're missing. Note I'm not calling you the missing link.

[Drew]

Ah there's a link you're missing. Note I'm not calling you the missing link.Noted, I'm not quite so full of myself as to think I'm the one who makes human evolution a possibility.

[blackdog]

I'm prepared for you all to flame away.

The OP (is it racefactory or ttmadness?) is probably not a bad rider, my belief however is the poor bastard is probably lacking in the ol' IQ stakes.

Why ask questions here when you could pop into the local kindergarten and get an accurate answer.

[onearmedbandit]

The stock suspension on those is so far from raceable ( competitively ) that any ''tuning'' is pretty much academic. That sounds ''harsh'' but its the reality


junk the forks, junk the shock (especially the shock) and you've made a massive improvement. Theres basic mods that makes them much much better, in both handling and engine, that don't require much effort.

a stock nc30 is pretty slow now days. its good in pre-89 but even then itll prob need mods to keep up with faster bikes (i.e. those with mods). In f3 its a no hoper.

But competitve is a realative term. Its competitive against other nc30's, and all other 400's. Against new kit it shows its age.


^^^^What they said.

If you want to be competitive, buy a sorted ProTwins SV650.

If you just want a trackday bike, use the NC. But bear in mind if its stock it is 20 years old. and look where the rear shock is (right there by the rear headers... it gets HOT in there), and how tiny the shock is. (esp the first gen non remote reservoir shock). And the forks too. If you're spending money on one, start there. bring money.


It's all been said but there's one more thing too....
When you race one of these standard you may well spin a big end bearing...
Back in the day the first two to be raced in ChCh both did big ends - looking at them the problem was poorly finished oil holes on the journals.
In the motor the first step should be properly radiusing the oil holes. Then re clearance to the max available in the shell range - they're way too tight standard.


I quite agree....

the two that appeared on track in ChCh were low Km imports which were very good tidy examples - couldn't tell you the year of manufacture.
I said big ends and that's what I meant...this was at the tail end of the period where VF hondas were doing cranks commonly.
The cranks I saw at the time were poorly finished - good enough for road use but sustained high revs and heat showed up the lack of attention to detail.
Interestingly enough, "ordinary" VF400 shells fitted - Casbolts didn't have anything at all on the model - not even a parts fische at the time.

Anyone know what happened to the two bikes the Roberts family had ?
Those were seriously trick - but not enormously quick...


There's lots of NC30's around making up the mid/rear part of the F3 fields. To be at the front of F3 you need to start with a big pile of someone elses money and go from there.

As for Posties Junior, they do better in there but still, you'll never win unless the 600's etc blow up.


The great thing about the 400's is they can do Pre89 and F3.

Depends if you want to be super competitive or do 2 classes and be happy having a battle down the feild

I would go with 2 classes and more track time :msn-wink:..............as long as they arnt back to back races:eek:


So, going internal

1) Forks. Race Tech emulators with a modification specific to road race / track day. Remove and machine damper rods so they actually assemble more concentrically within the tubes. Ohlins springs fit straight in. Bera in mind that there are likely wear issues with bushings etc, not apparent until stripped

2) Rear end. Respring at minimum, Ohlins springs often fit these with minimal adaptation. Some of these NC30 shocks are rebuildable, some are not. If it is rebuildable the stock shock piston has tiny ports and needs to be thrown away as far as possible. If its got a 46mm bore body tube we can fit an Ohlins piston and valving which actually does a better job than Race Tech, but we would also fit a Race Tech flow seperator which mimics an Ohlins shaft jet. BUT, the rear ride height in these needs lifting up considerably to attain track day / road race geometry so youd need to find some way of lifting the ride height on what is a fixed length shock.

The above is the absolute mimimum to achieve a decent standard of grip, geometry, tyre life etc.


It's bang on the money actually.

I had a good old time on my stock 89 CBR400RR in post classic junior (2nd at Vic Club to Chris Sales on his hot rod XR500 ), and F3, giving the SV's and hotted 400's (440-450) a run (top ten at club level). But you're never going to win on it. Unless maybe you're a motorcycling legend. My best at Manners was a low 20; even Scracha is doing 18's on his Frankencane 600.



I chose to sell the 400 and get an SV (if you can't beat em, join em) - I'm only racing in one class now (2 on track) but running at the pointy end of Pro Twins and F3. Much more fun !!


Kissy did ok at Wangas on a VFR400 (6th), and a guy did well at Paeroa in 2009 (3rd) but I very much doubt they are stock.


We have a lot of empirical background experience with this model and basically we would get the spring rates 95% correct straight off, without any need to see the bike. We have in fact built about 15 or so Ohlins shocks for that model, they are long since out of production ex Ohlins. Experience with those gives us a solid baseline of setting that we apply to the stock shock and the forks are a no brainer. One of our further strengths is that if the spring rates turn out to be not quite correct we exchange at no further cost excepting courier recovery fees. We also provide easy to follow and concise setup info and are always available to answer questions by phone or e-mail.

We are no the cheapest as we dont cut corners and are always available to help.


My best on a stock 89 CBR400RR was a low 1.20. Jarrod Wintle did a 1.19 which might have been the record for a 400, not sure. These are winter series times.

If its any help, I still think I am a 'good' rider. :msn-wink: Much quicker on an SV


Yeah 18's at manfield is more than possible. Jason Hulme on a fairly stock 30 beat Ernie at HD during the tri series. An Ernies is aloooot quicker than scracha :gob:


So just give it a go as standard and see if the racing lark is really what you want to carry on with , (maybe on a diff bike)





...just do it son...when you ride faster than the NC30 can go as it is , you will have answered your own question and you'll know what the next step is...trying to catch up is what the game is for most of us...


the lap record for a 400 is 1.13.8 done over 10 years ago.


I'm prepared for you all to flame away.

The OP (is it racefactory or ttmadness?) is probably not a bad rider, my belief however is the poor bastard is probably lacking in the ol' IQ stakes.

Why ask questions here when you could pop into the local kindergarten and get an accurate answer.

Let me guess. You wandered into the last few posts of this thread and missed all the posts above, plus more but I got bored of it all. :facepalm:

[blackdog]

Let me guess. You wandered into the last few posts of this thread and missed all the posts above, plus more but I got bored of it all. :facepalm:

i'm lmfao, i have read the thread from the start but you have wrapped it all up nicely. might be time to consign that dirty ol' 400 to the landfill methinks.

[White trash]

Let me guess. You wandered into the last few posts of this thread and missed all the posts above, plus more but I got bored of it all. :facepalm:

What is the limit for a multiquote I wonder?

[onearmedbandit]

i'm lmfao, i have read the thread from the start but you have wrapped it all up nicely.

Must be a pretty impressive kindergarten if Robert Taylor is there giving out advice for free.


What is the limit for a multiquote I wonder?

Not sure, I didn't hit it.

[Mental Trousers]

Noted, I'm not quite so full of myself as to think I'm the one who makes human evolution a possibility.

You could rightly lay claim to being one of those who makes human devolution possible though.


Must be a pretty impressive kindergarten if Robert Taylor is there giving out advice for free.


Robert is happy to educate anyone and everyone about the advantages of quality suspension and knowledgeable people. I guess he's getting them early, showing them why the suspension (or lack of) on their trikes means they're likely to topple over and skin their knees.

[Drew]

You could rightly lay claim to being one of those who makes human devolution possible though.

That aint even a fuckin word.

Devolution indeed!

[Virago]

That aint even a fuckin word.

Devolution indeed!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_%28biology%29

The emergence of rugby football, in all its guises, is conclusive evidence that the human species is devolving back toward the ape.

[gatch]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_%28biology%29

The emergence of rugby football, in all its guises, is conclusive evidence that the human species is devolving back toward the ape.

+1

10 char

[Billy]

I don't think they were doing it then, but the track has changed a shit load.

I think the outright lap record for a bike was once set in 1990, and stood for over a decade.

Actually they did do those times back then,In fact Tony MacMurdo was in the mid 1.14s as far back as 1989 on his Methanol/Nitro Methane burning GPZ500 and a number of other riders outside of Scott also dipped into the high 1.13s including Nathan Spargo(ZXR400L and Terry Fitzgerald (GSXR400) along with Ernie Cudby(FZR400),Brendon Coad(ZXR400 and company all circulating in the 1.14 bracket.

The important thing to remember is,You cant compare laptimes from one day to another let alone 2 decades apart and the rules were different back then and a number of those bikes mentioned were on methanol.

Also how does anybody know any of the laptimes quoted are accurate including the ones produced by the current system?I was timed at a mid 1.12 on an RG150 by the current system in an F3 race in 2007 ??????

[Drew]

Also how does anybody know any of the laptimes quoted are accurate including the ones produced by the current system?I was timed at a mid 1.12 on an RG150 by the current system in an F3 race in 2007 ??????

You took the slip road back onto the main straight from the hairpin aye. You can tell us mate, it's OK.

[Billy]

You took the slip road back onto the main straight from the hairpin aye. You can tell us mate, it's OK.

Yer,But I always use that track!Nobodys ever noticed before

[Drew]

Yer,But I always use that track!Nobodys ever noticed before

Damn electronic timing!

[Grumph]

Actually they did do those times back then,In fact Tony MacMurdo was in the mid 1.14s as far back as 1989 on his Methanol/Nitro Methane burning GPZ500 and a number of other riders outside of Scott also dipped into the high 1.13s including Nathan Spargo(ZXR400L and Terry Fitzgerald (GSXR400) along with Ernie Cudby(FZR400),Brendon Coad(ZXR400 and company all circulating in the 1.14 bracket.

The important thing to remember is,You cant compare laptimes from one day to another let alone 2 decades apart and the rules were different back then and a number of those bikes mentioned were on methanol.

Also how does anybody know any of the laptimes quoted are accurate including the ones produced by the current system?I was timed at a mid 1.12 on an RG150 by the current system in an F3 race in 2007 ??????

The classic example of "off" times was Roger Freeth - he was always ringing up and quoting fantastic times done in testing at Puke....I'm sure he had the world's slowest stopwatch.

[scracha]

That aint even a fuckin word.

Devolution indeed!

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/vli/history/pathtodevolution/index.htm

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_%28biology%29

The emergence of rugby football, in all its guises, is conclusive evidence that the human species is devolving back toward the ape.

I'd extend that to all stick and ball games, but yeah. I just do not understand them. or their attraction. But you know, some people do, and good for them

[HenryDorsetCase]

Actually they did do those times back then,In fact Tony MacMurdo was in the mid 1.14s as far back as 1989 on his Methanol/Nitro Methane burning GPZ500 and a number of other riders outside of Scott also dipped into the high 1.13s including Nathan Spargo(ZXR400L and Terry Fitzgerald (GSXR400) along with Ernie Cudby(FZR400),Brendon Coad(ZXR400 and company all circulating in the 1.14 bracket.

The important thing to remember is,You cant compare laptimes from one day to another let alone 2 decades apart and the rules were different back then and a number of those bikes mentioned were on methanol.

Also how does anybody know any of the laptimes quoted are accurate including the ones produced by the current system?I was timed at a mid 1.12 on an RG150 by the current system in an F3 race in 2007 ??????

What the hell?!???! the twin cylinder commuter bike GPz500, with 16 inch front wheel? I used to have one.....

any pics of the nitro burning beast?

Oh, and presumably no methanol because you can't tell its on fire or not?

[Kickaha]

What the hell?!???! the twin cylinder commuter bike GPz500, with 16 inch front wheel? I used to have one...

I think there was a supercharged one racing as well

[Grumph]

I think there was a supercharged one racing as well

No photos of that exist as far as I know sorry...
Tony's one made "over 80 at the wheel" - he was always a little coy about what it made as it depended on how much nitro he was running at the time.
Mine on a methanol blend - sorry, I'm still a little coy too - made about 72 at the wheel.
The blown one according to the owner of the car dyno we used made something over 100 at the wheel....on 15lb boost and straight methanol.

Ahh - good times....

[Drew]

No photos of that exist as far as I know sorry...
Tony's one made "over 80 at the wheel" - he was always a little coy about what it made as it depended on how much nitro he was running at the time.
Mine on a methanol blend - sorry, I'm still a little coy too - made about 72 at the wheel.
The blown one according to the owner of the car dyno we used made something over 100 at the wheel....on 15lb boost and straight methanol.

Ahh - good times....

There's hope for Jimmy's GSX yet then.

[DEATH_INC.]

That aint even a fuckin word.

Devolution indeed!
Maybe not....but it's fitting. :woohoo:

[HenryDorsetCase]

No photos of that exist as far as I know sorry...
Tony's one made "over 80 at the wheel" - he was always a little coy about what it made as it depended on how much nitro he was running at the time.
Mine on a methanol blend - sorry, I'm still a little coy too - made about 72 at the wheel.
The blown one according to the owner of the car dyno we used made something over 100 at the wheel....on 15lb boost and straight methanol.

Ahh - good times....

presumably they ran like champs for 15 minutes then went off like an RPG round into an Al Qaeda base?

[Drew]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_%28biology%29

The emergence of rugby football, in all its guises, is conclusive evidence that the human species is devolving back toward the ape.


Maybe not....but it's fitting. :woohoo:

No, that's Evolution. Since the species changes to fit an environment.

Regressive evolution at best, but I'm pretty sure "devolution" is a colloquialism at best.

[Grumph]

presumably they ran like champs for 15 minutes then went off like an RPG round into an Al Qaeda base?

Not a bit of it...Tony's did it's first season on our methanol blend then 2nd season on Amanda's nitro cocktail - winning F3 both years - on the same rings and bearings as it started with.He sold it and I understand it ran at club and national level for some time afterward - I lost sight of it.
Mine has the same rings in it now as it came with new...crank got replaced when Rob Lewis having a guest ride over did it dicing with Hepburn.
The bottom end of the supercharged one was stock - clearanced and with shot peened rods. Stock compression ratio too.
Methanol is lovely stuff for making a motor last - bring it back, I say...
Mine's still in the barn...maybe one day.

[scracha]

No, that's Evolution. Since the species changes to fit an environment.

Regressive evolution at best, but I'm pretty sure "devolution" is a colloquialism at best.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/devolution

[Drew]

Methanol is lovely stuff for making a motor last - bring it back, I say...
Mine's still in the barn...maybe one day.

Methanol is perfectly legal in post classics, so get it fired up!

[crazy man]

Methanol is perfectly legal in post classics, so get it fired up!why would you want to go slower with methanol ;-)

[Racin Jason]

I think i can give you a good idea of what a stock NC30 can do
My NC30 was meant as a cheap bike for me to get some track time, and see if i still knew how to race a bike.

Totally stock i could do about 1.20.0
It now has rear shock(rebuilt) from a bigger bike, which raised rear ride height, half exhaust system, carb mods, charging system removed, and thats it
best time so far is 1.18.0 on a track day with worn gpra12's. it could probably do 1.17.5 with slicks on a good day.
I think these times are pushing the limits of the bike pretty hard.

The whole bike owes me about $2k (inlcuding mods) I wouldn't bother going any further with it, except maybe forks if i can be bothered). It will cost huge money to bring it anywhere near the SV's and would be far too unreliable.
Ill just be punting it around in posties for a while before handing it over to the misses.

[allribs]

i started out on a stock 20 year old cbr 400 and did 1 18s around manfield,with a few tweaks beats most the 650s and dos 1 15s

[Kickaha]

Methanol is perfectly legal in post classics, so get it fired up!

Only for real Post Classics pre72/82

10.17.3 The following classes shall have the choice of either petrol having maximum characteristics not exceeding “Avgas, Unleaded FIM” or methanol, both as defined in Appendix E. Sidecars as defined in chapter 27. National Speed Records, Hill Climb – Road and Grass, Beach, Classic Road Racing as defined in Chapter 23, Post Classic (Period 72) Road Racing as defined in Rule 25.3, Post Classic (Period 82) Road Racing as defined in Rule 25.4 (4 stroke engines only), Grass Track and Speedway Sidecars and those classes of Oval Racing defined in Chapter 19 and 20 except 20.27, 20.31 and 20.32. Any machines
using methanol must display “Dangerous Goods” or other appropriate stickers
that clearly indicate its use, on the machine in a prominent place e.g. number
boards.

[racefactory]

i started out on a stock 20 year old cbr 400 and did 1 18s around manfield,with a few tweaks beats most the 650s and dos 1 15s

that's impressive mate... was it an NC29? Seems like the 400s can't keep up with the 650s these days though eh.

[montsta56]

that's impressive... was it an NC29? Seems like the 400s can't keep up with the 650s these days though eh.

These day's? He's talking bout a few months ago.

[racefactory]

These day's? He's talking bout a few months ago.

Really? Even more cool then.

Is the NC29 a better choice than the NC30? What mods can be viably done on the NC29 vs NC30?

[Grumph]

[QUOTE=Kickaha;1130026304]Only for real Post Classics pre72/82

Someone didn't follow through and change the fuel regs...the class rules state Open fuel...exact same as pre 82 etc but pre 89 has been omitted from the fuel regs.

Methanol (and Nitro) was permitted in period so I think the intent is clear but the execution was faulty when the pre 89 regs were inserted.

Anyone from NZPCRA want to approach MNZ for an official clarification ?

[allribs]

Really? Even more cool then.

Is the NC29 a better choice than the NC30? What mods can be viably done on the NC29 vs NC30?

yeah i think they are better,easier to modify and make better top end hp,you can still buy lots of after market goodies,but depends how much you want to spend

[scracha]

that's impressive mate... was it an NC29? Seems like the 400s can't keep up with the 650s these days though eh.

If it's who I think it is then yep, it's an NC29....and I'm Soooooooo glad it wasn't an NC23 :innocent: And it did more than keep up with the 650's too.

[gav]

Just asking, but isnt the NC30 a 1990 model? Why is it running in Pre 89?
Just run it in clubmans and take it easy, dont wanna go smashing up those fairings. But just remember 20 year old suspension aint gonna be fun ....

And I can remember that McMurdo GPZ500, painted pink wasnt it? Didnt he build a carbon fibre frame for it at one stage?

[lukemillar]

Just asking, but isnt the NC30 a 1990 model? Why is it running in Pre 89?
Just run it in clubmans and take it easy, dont wanna go smashing up those fairings. But just remember 20 year old suspension aint gonna be fun ....

And I can remember that McMurdo GPZ500, painted pink wasnt it? Didnt he build a carbon fibre frame for it at one stage?

NC30's came out in 1989, so only the early models are eligible for pre-89.

[Billy]

Just asking, but isnt the NC30 a 1990 model? Why is it running in Pre 89?
Just run it in clubmans and take it easy, dont wanna go smashing up those fairings. But just remember 20 year old suspension aint gonna be fun ....

And I can remember that McMurdo GPZ500, painted pink wasnt it? Didnt he build a carbon fibre frame for it at one stage?

No,That was his 600

[gav]

NC30's came out in 1989, so only the early models are eligible for pre-89.
Not in NZ they didnt, I bought a brand new VFR400RK in 1990 and this was the NC24 model. The NC30 was only released in Japan in 1989, first exported 1990, but wasnt imported here new.

(a) These rules are intended to ensure a high standard of authenticity and
presentation of the representative periods.
So if no NC30's were being raced here before Dec 1989 how can it be included now?

[Grumph]

Billy may be able to answer this....the Roberts boys from up your way fronted with two Hondas said to be ex Japanese F3 wars in year 2 I think of our F3.
Were these NC30's ? They were VERY trick...

Where's Tony's carbon fiber framed 600 now ? On Nitro at the non champ Wigram meeting he gave the OW's fits...in a straight line too. 1st F2 bike and I think 3rd across the line against all the top F1 bikes.

[lukemillar]

Not in NZ they didnt, I bought a brand new VFR400RK in 1990 and this was the NC24 model. The NC30 was only released in Japan in 1989, first exported 1990, but wasnt imported here new.

(a) These rules are intended to ensure a high standard of authenticity and
presentation of the representative periods.
So if no NC30's were being raced here before Dec 1989 how can it be included now?


(C) Pre 89 which will consist of racing machines manufactured after the closing
date of the period 1982 class and before December 31st 1989.

Since the rules base it on manufactured date, it doesn't matter when they hit NZ shores.

[tigertim20]

Not in NZ they didnt, I bought a brand new VFR400RK in 1990 and this was the NC24 model. The NC30 was only released in Japan in 1989, first exported 1990, but wasnt imported here new.

So if no NC30's were being raced here before Dec 1989 how can it be included now?

firstly, like the cbr600F4 and the cbr600F4i, sometimes a new model is produced alongside the old model for a couple years. even if that wasnt the case for the vfr400's, your vfr400 NC24 was still probably a 1989 model, either being brand new left over stock, or more likely, was a 1989 bike but was exported to nz a little late. rego tends to rely on the date of first NZ rego, which is why its not uncommon for bikes that didnt sell straight away when they were brand new, to be registered as say a 2010R1, when its really a 2009R1 that sat on the floor for 18 months before being sold, and subsequently rego'd

[gav]

Since the rules base it on manufactured date, it doesn't matter when they hit NZ shores.
True, but then this rule fails to adhere to rule a)
(a) These rules are intended to ensure a high standard of authenticity and
presentation of the representative periods.

Only nit picking anyway, just interesting how the rules can be interpreted I guess. :innocent:

And yeah the VFR400 was an 89 model, didnt keep it that long, once I saw the first few imports starting to arrive, thought it would be wise to flick it off. :yes:
Did take it to the WSBK round at Manfield in 1990 though. My mate had bought one as well and raced it in the F3 support, I pit crewed and we took my bike as a spare. Looked kinda cool seeing 2 new ProArms sitting in his pit area. Don't recall seeing any NC30's around though.