If speed kills, is this premeditated murder?

[mashman]

"The UK Transport Secretary, Philip Hammond, has proposed to increase the speed limit on UK motorways from 70- to 80mph.

The idea behind the change is to reduce journey times, as the Government believes that the economy could be improved if motorists spend less time behind the wheel. " (http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/28022011/36/speed-limit-reach-80mph-0.html)

[Banditbandit]

Interesting ideas ... "safety might not be the only factor to consider when it comes to judging how fast cars travel on the roads" ... I wonder what our curent crop of dickhead rulers (MPs) might think of that ????

[oneofsix]

Interesting ideas ... "safety might not be the only factor to consider when it comes to judging how fast cars travel on the roads" ... I wonder what our curent crop of dickhead rulers (MPs) might think of that ????

If it means investing on roading other than so Toll can run larger trucks they will run faster than the European speed limits allow.

[mashman]

Interesting ideas ... "safety might not be the only factor to consider when it comes to judging how fast cars travel on the roads" ... I wonder what our curent crop of dickhead rulers (MPs) might think of that ????

brilliant ain't it... the fact that a hell of a lot of people are hitting nearly 100, or so I've guesstimated whilst adhering to the UK speed limit :shifty:, should be some indicator that the carnage ain't likely to rise by much, if at all :). Funny thing is, it's wall to wall traffic on most motorways during rush hour, so setting a limit of 8mph may well speed things up further :eek:.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Murder by definition is premeditated. (pretty much). So your question is "if excessive speed kills, is that murder?" Answer: not likely to be, but in some circumstances it could be (for example, that guy who tried to commit suicide by driving into oncoming traffic: tragically killing the mother and daughter).

the key for murder pretty much is intention. (if you dont intend to kill, or arent so reckless as to not care whether you kill or not, then you have committed mans laughter, not murder.) Of course the penalty for murder is mandatory life imprisonment , and the maximum for mans laughter is the same penalty.

So, you know..... its complicated.

[steve_t]

It'd be interesting if their motorway road toll went down :niceone: What's 80 mph? 130km/h ish? Shirley, everyone in the UK will instantly die on the UK motorways :shutup:

[Spuds1234]

Shirley, everyone in the UK will instantly die on the UK motorways :shutup:

Why are you calling me Shirley :dodge:

I would love to see the open road speed limit go up in NZ but unfortunately it wont.

Hell even if we were allowed to do 120 down certain pieces of road in Canterbury I'd be for it. It sucks riding down long straight pieces of road for miles on end.

[Banditbandit]

Why are you calling me Shirley :dodge:



The long-haired whacker in your avatar pic suggests it's appropriate ???

[Katman]

Only a very small percentage of New Zealand's roads would come close to the motorway system that the UK have.

To compare our roads to theirs is an exercise in the ridiculous.

[Toaster]

Only a very small percentage of New Zealand's roads would come close to the motorway system that the UK have.

To compare our roads to theirs is an exercise in the ridiculous.

Completely agree. Anyone having driven both can see the vast differences we have between their system and ours.

However, when it comes to our dual carriage highways with barriers, I see no harm in raising the limit at least to that of the similar roads in Australia.

It is always a trade off in potential aggregate economic value on our time vs the direct cost of extra fuel inefficiency at any increase in average speeds.

This of course assumes free flowing traffic. Speed limits are almost pointless in heavy traffic where we all suffer wasted time AND more fuel use when stop starting our vehicles.

I would love to see a dedicated 1/3rd size motorcycle lane on the extreme right lanes with a 120km/h limit on open roads with barriers.

[MisterD]

As you point out mashman, 90mph is the standard cruising speed of a lot of Mway traffic in the UK, you'll get pulled over for doing it but only in the same way as wildebeest will get eaten by lions...most of them escape most of the time.

BTW Our motorway lanes are narrower than in the UK...as little as 3.1m through Spag Junction and the middle of the bridge to about 3.5m on the clip-ons. UK is between 3.65 and 3.75m.

[p.dath]

Finally someone who makes the decisions being pragmatic.

There is nothing you can do to get the death toll to zero that involves any speed limit other than zero. So it is more sensible to accept that there will be some level of deaths on our roads, and that anything at or below this means that we don't have a problem that needs fixing.

[mashman]

Murder by definition is premeditated. (pretty much). So your question is "if excessive speed kills, is that murder?" Answer: not likely to be, but in some circumstances it could be (for example, that guy who tried to commit suicide by driving into oncoming traffic: tragically killing the mother and daughter).

the key for murder pretty much is intention. (if you dont intend to kill, or arent so reckless as to not care whether you kill or not, then you have committed mans laughter, not murder.) Of course the penalty for murder is mandatory life imprisonment , and the maximum for mans laughter is the same penalty.

So, you know..... its complicated.

pedantic bastard :shifty:... i do take your point though. It must at least wave red flag with Health & Safety in mind (tantamount to man slaughter I believe?)... Speed Kills, but by all means go faster with out blessing :shifty:



As you point out mashman, 90mph is the standard cruising speed of a lot of Mway traffic in the UK, you'll get pulled over for doing it but only in the same way as wildebeest will get eaten by lions...most of them escape most of the time.

Fortunately :shifty:... Any idea what's with the "new" safety police back on old blighty's motorways. When we was back a year or so ago, there were no traffic police anywhere to be seen in their jam jars, but rather black and yellow checked Highway Patrol thingies... did they privatise it or somefink?

[MisterD]

Fortunately :shifty:... Any idea what's with the "new" safety police back on old blighty's motorways. When we was back a year or so ago, there were no traffic police anywhere to be seen in their jam jars, but rather black and yellow checked Highway Patrol thingies... did they privatise it or somefink?

Haven't been back for three years so dunno. I do know that a few of the West Midlands forces created a cross-border specialist motorway policing group a few years ago, so maybe they've just filtered through to special cars for that now?

I know that UK police forces (and ours here too) have moved away from white cars to other colours because they have higher resale at the end of service (and the metallic paints survive the stickering better).

[HenryDorsetCase]

Why are you calling me Shirley :dodge:

I would love to see the open road speed limit go up in NZ but unfortunately it wont.

Hell even if we were allowed to do 120 down certain pieces of road in Canterbury I'd be for it. It sucks riding down long straight pieces of road for miles on end.

Absolutely. the closest I think I have ever come to dying on a motorbike was travelling south on the canterbury plains on my GSX400, in the dying days of the 80kph limit. Then (as now) the road is very heavily trolled by rozzers looking for easy ups to their quota. so I was trundling along, a bit tired, and kind of nodded off. came to when the bike crossed into the grass verge.... managed to not fall off, but I reckon its the fastest change in heart rate I have ever experienced.

If i had been doing 180kph then obviously that wouldnt have happened..

[martybabe]

rather black and yellow checked Highway Patrol thingies... did they privatise it or somefink?

Yes they did but the yellow and blacks are primarily for rapid response to incidents that hold up the traffic flow, breakdowns RTAs Spilled cargo etc. They are civvies and do not have any legal powers. They do have a hot line to the police for back up though.

80 mph is a good move I think for UK motorways, even at that speed heading towards Londinium on the M40 or M4, you'd be Mr slowpoke. The reality, in England of course is that every one will just be rushing faster towards the next traffic jam.

[Whynot]

makes sense ... even if it just brings them into line with the rest of europe, which has typically 120-130k limit on motorways.

[Banditbandit]

Murder by definition is premeditated. (pretty much). So your question is "if excessive speed kills, is that murder?" Answer: not likely to be, but in some circumstances it could be (for example, that guy who tried to commit suicide by driving into oncoming traffic: tragically killing the mother and daughter).

the key for murder pretty much is intention. (if you dont intend to kill, or arent so reckless as to not care whether you kill or not, then you have committed mans laughter, not murder.) Of course the penalty for murder is mandatory life imprisonment , and the maximum for mans laughter is the same penalty.

So, you know..... its complicated.

:facepalm: Who rattled your serious chain then ?

[MSTRS]

... 80kph limit...trundling along...kind of nodded off...came to when the bike crossed into the grass verge...

If I had been doing 180kph then obviously that wouldn't have happened...

You would have been dead by the time you woke up?

[Smifffy]

Only a very small percentage of New Zealand's roads would come close to the motorway system that the UK have.

To compare our roads to theirs is an exercise in the ridiculous.

So how about just a few then, like say, brand new motorway extensions, or toll roads?

Supposedly these are built to the best safety standards achievable?

[Swoop]

I wonder what our curent crop of dickhead rulers (MPs) might think of that?
They would have to go to Victoria and be told what their opinion is.

[PeeJay]

What amazes me is "only" 132 deaths on their motorways for 2009.

[oneofsix]

What amazes me is "only" 132 deaths on their motorways for 2009.

Better roads :shutup:

[Whynot]

What amazes me is "only" 132 deaths on their motorways for 2009.

Thats not a lot when you consider how many motorways they have and the amount of traffic on each one ...

[Juzz976]

I think if you take too much speed and it kills you its suicide or accidental suicide.

On a serious note though raising the speed limit in a congested area only increases fuel consumption and less time between queuing at intersections & on/off ramps.

For example: traveling from papamoa to mount maunganui on the SH, you can do 100kph untill either 1 of 2 things.

- Get stuck behind domeone doing 85-90 untill the roundabout
- Get to the que faster.

now if you travel at 80-85 by the time you get to the roundabout you just roll on through, less braking and less wasted fuel.

The other side is slow drivers will not increase their speed and anyone in a hurry has better opportunity of passing within the speed limit... less road rage?

[HenryDorsetCase]

:facepalm: Who rattled your serious chain then ?

Um, yeah. sorry about that. occupational hazard.

[Swoop]

What amazes me is "only" 132 deaths on their motorways for 2009.

For a country with a population of 50 million (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_population_of_England)I think they are doing very well indeed.
Perhaps they train their drivers better and don't give away "scratch and win" licences?


edit: Interesting info here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate).
UK: 3.59/100,000people.
NZ: 8.6/100,000people.

[p.dath]

What amazes me is "only" 132 deaths on their motorways for 2009.

Perhaps it is hard to "die" of an accident when the traffic is stop/start?

[SPman]

I see no harm in raising the limit at least to that of the similar roads in Australia. What? 80kph?
The new "freeway" to Bunbury has great stretches of 80K limits. The excuse - the on-ramps aren't long enough for vehicles to accelerate to 110kph and merge safely with the traffic flow! I don't know what they used as an example - a 1936 Austin 7???? The ticket take was about 380 an hour just after they opened it and it's still heavily policed......

[schrodingers cat]

The way things are on Southern Roads with all the trucks (Cheers Fonterra), lack of passing opportunities on our roads, and the unwillingness of people to pass, the speed limit might as well be 80kph.

Did I mention all the camper vans??? Grrrrrrrrrr:angry:

[Banditbandit]

They would have to go to Victoria and be told what their opinion is.

Sheesh ... she died years ago ... are we still pulling out the ghosts of our Imperial past ????

[Whynot]

The way things are on Southern Roads with all the trucks (Cheers Fonterra), lack of passing opportunities on our roads, and the unwillingness of people to pass, the speed limit might as well be 80kph.

Did I mention all the camper vans??? Grrrrrrrrrr:angry:

you should come up to Auckland sometime ...

[Banditbandit]

The way things are on Southern Roads with all the trucks (Cheers Fonterra), lack of passing opportunities on our roads, and the unwillingness of people to pass, the speed limit might as well be 80kph.

Did I mention all the camper vans??? Grrrrrrrrrr:angry:

Shit ... I road Picton-Blenheim-Murchison-Westport-Greymouth-Chch-Picton a couple of weeks ago .. sure there were camper vans everywhere ... but Red Wolf had no trouble lopping past them .... drop it down two or three gears and opening the throttle ....

(My brain had a few moments tho' - glancing at the speedo as I pulled back in to see speeds in excess of 140 klicks ... it's a long walk back to Whakatane)

[Swoop]

are we still pulling out the ghosts of our Imperial past ????
I have a bath every week, whether I need it or not!

[schrodingers cat]

you should come up to Auckland sometime ...

No. Really I shouldn't...