Why I love dealerships

[The Stranger]

Because when they strip a head bolt they know just how to repair it properly.
What would a conscientious dealer do? Pull the head and insert a heli coil?

Well that's what I would have done (and have done now), but not the dealership.


Knead it. They put the head bolt in with knead it.

Still, I suppose I must give them credit for a creative solution.

[James Deuce]

That deserves a double face palm. I suppose when the knead-it fails they can claim they'd never do anything like that.

[Crasherfromwayback]

What would a conscientious dealer do? Pull the head and insert a heli coil?


Probably call you, and tell you what's going on, and ask how you'd like it fixed.

[Flip]

Name and shame?

[hayd3n]

Because when they strip a head bolt they know just how to repair it properly.
What would a conscientious dealer do? Pull the head and insert a heli coil?

Well that's what I would have done (and have done now), but not the dealership.


Knead it. They put the head bolt in with knead it.

Still, I suppose I must give them credit for a creative solution.

wtf????????????????????????????????????

[davebullet]

I know why this happened, it was a mis-communication:

The dealership: "When would you like this done?"
The Stranger: "I knead it quickly!"

[AllanB]

That sucks mate.

If I owned the shop I'd have been more inclined to use JB Weld and charge you full rate for the extra hours it took to set :facepalm:


Name and Shame I say.

[The Stranger]

Name and Shame I say.


Name and shame?

Thank you, very tempting however I'm not so keen to foot the bill for the defence of a court case.

[hayd3n]

Thank you, very tempting however I'm not so keen to foot the bill for the defence of a court case.

will they foot the bill when the head leaks?

[ducatilover]

That is very creative! Noted for future jobs :facepalm:

[Max Preload]

Thank you, very tempting however I'm not so keen to foot the bill for the defence of a court case.On what grounds could any case be brought against you?

There are complete defences in law against defamation called the truth (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1992/0105/latest/DLM281217.html) and honest opinion (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1992/0105/latest/DLM281219.html).

[PeeJay]

Because when they strip a head bolt they know just how to repair it properly.
What would a conscientious dealer do? Pull the head and insert a heli coil?

Well that's what I would have done (and have done now), but not the dealership.


Knead it. They put the head bolt in with knead it.

Still, I suppose I must give them credit for a creative solution.

When you say head bolt, is this one of the bolts that clamp the head gasket?

If not and it was one of the bolts that hold a rocker cover on or similar then JB weld or knead it would work perfctly well.
But like anything it has to be done right

[avgas]

Shame they didn't use the ceramic stuff (similar to kneadit) - as that would have worked...

[p.dath]

On what grounds could any case be brought against you?

There are complete defences in law against defamation called the truth (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1992/0105/latest/DLM281217.html) and honest opinion (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1992/0105/latest/DLM281219.html).

Alas being in the "right" does not prevent frivolous cases being brought against you. Humans are silly emotional beings, and sometimes when they get upset they take stupid actions that cost other people money.

[James Deuce]

Alas being in the "right" does not prevent frivolous cases being brought against you. Humans are silly emotional beings, and sometimes when they get upset they take stupid actions that cost other people money.

That is an inconvenient truth. DAMHIK.

[The Stranger]

On what grounds could any case be brought against you?


Ok, wonadering off topic a little here - but...

The problem of course is not that you may have a sound defence, the problem is the case itself.

In my experience both in commercial construction and personally, people rarely see sense until after the judge, jury, or adjudicator etc has made a determination.
Again in my experience when you do get to court it is often a roll of the dice that determines the outcome. I've seen some really wierd decisions. By way of example and not sure if this is still true but it used to be that 55% of cases appealed to the high court from the district court were overturned at the high court.

Last case cost me personally $45k in legal fees. Having "won" the case I then got about half my costs back (plus an award and interest etc). The point is it took at least 2 yrs of stress and uncertainty, an appeal - and I had to outlay that money to get to that point and I still had to foot the bill for 20k of legal fees from the award.

There is little to stop anyone actually bringing a case (seen some really dick head claims actually make it to court). Either way (win or lose) you pay both in financial terms and in personal terms.
My advice is to avoid it if at all possible. If you don't take that advice then don't blame the lawyers for getting fat off of you.

[Max Preload]

Oh, well. If you want to allow yourself to be gagged by crooks, that's up to you. Why start a thread though if you're going to be a pussy about it?

[firefighter]

No-one will take you to court ffs.

Defamation is only defamation if you tell porkies. Defamation is not defamation if you've told the truth, and yes that is out of the mouth of a lawyer who deals with contract law and this kinda stuff.

[imdying]

Oh, well. If you want to allow yourself to be gagged by crooks, that's up to you. Why start a thread though if you're going to be a pussy about it?Yeah, impotent thread is impotent.

[The Stranger]

When you say head bolt, is this one of the bolts that clamp the head gasket?


A bolt that secures the head to the block - so yes it retains the head gasket and the head.


Shame they didn't use the ceramic stuff (similar to kneadit) - as that would have worked...

Ah well, you got me there. I am unfamiliar with the ceramic stuff.

There are 2 head bolts which must be removed to perform a certain repair task - which was done recently by said dealer for the last owner (the guy provided full dealer service history including receipts and the receipt for this specific repair).

The repair task failed (no lubrication present) so must now be re-performed necessitating removal of said head bolts again.

It's highly doubtful that the head has ever been off (paint marks and condition of other bolts support this) so whatever was used was inserted down the bolt hole with the head on. This is supported by the goop on the old head gasket and inside of the bolt hole.

So with this ceramic stuff, given that the whole hole (below the bottom of the bolt) was full of this shit that came out adhered to the bolt threads (I had to drill that out to helicoil it) are you able to torque the bolt? Somehow I doubt it.

Now in my view, you should never need to remove a head bolt (or 2) to remove a bracket to effect repair of another component, to me it's complete stupidity and the manufacturer did have other options, but that's just the way it is.

[The Stranger]

Oh, well. If you want to allow yourself to be gagged by crooks, that's up to you. Why start a thread though if you're going to be a pussy about it?

WTF? I thought that was obvious.
As a taunt to Motu (if he's still around) who as a mechanic always rattles on about how you should leave repairs to the professionals.

[Smifffy]

WTF? I thought that was obvious.
As a taunt to Motu (if he's still around) who as a mechanic always rattles on about how you should leave repairs to the professionals.


Oh, I thought you were talking about dealers' workshops, now you say you are talking about professionals. Which is it?

[Max Preload]

WTF? I thought that was obvious.
As a taunt to Motu (if he's still around) who as a mechanic always rattles on about how you should leave repairs to the professionals.In that case, bless.

[The Pastor]

I thought head bolts were a single use item, need new ones each time you un torque them

[JMemonic]

I thought head bolts were a single use item, need new ones each time you un torque them

Torque to yield yeap, but they arent all that style.

[nosebleed]

I thought head bolts were a single use item, need new ones each time you un torque them

Who told you that, someone selling head bolts?
Or someone who builds drag motors?


Or are you taking the wee's? It's getting harder to tell on here

[The Pastor]

Who told you that, someone selling head bolts?
Or someone who builds drag motors?


Or are you taking the wee's? It's getting harder to tell on here

we i've never replaced head bolts (and i've reused a few with no issues) unless i destroyed them taking them off with an angle grinder etc, but i've just always thought that they were single use items cos they stretch or something.

[avgas]

A bolt that secures the head to the block - so yes it retains the head gasket and the head.



Ah well, you got me there. I am unfamiliar with the ceramic stuff.

There are 2 head bolts which must be removed to perform a certain repair task - which was done recently by said dealer for the last owner (the guy provided full dealer service history including receipts and the receipt for this specific repair).

The repair task failed (no lubrication present) so must now be re-performed necessitating removal of said head bolts again.

It's highly doubtful that the head has ever been off (paint marks and condition of other bolts support this) so whatever was used was inserted down the bolt hole with the head on. This is supported by the goop on the old head gasket and inside of the bolt hole.

So with this ceramic stuff, given that the whole hole (below the bottom of the bolt) was full of this shit that came out adhered to the bolt threads (I had to drill that out to helicoil it) are you able to torque the bolt? Somehow I doubt it.

Now in my view, you should never need to remove a head bolt (or 2) to remove a bracket to effect repair of another component, to me it's complete stupidity and the manufacturer did have other options, but that's just the way it is.

Just talked to the guy here who uses it.
http://www.belzona.com/prod1k.aspx

He says the 1311 is good. But the 1111 (not on that page) goes harder than titanium. He is current looking at putting some into a massive 1-2 ton compressor (for an air shaft, I think for a mine) that has chewed out 2" sidewall (steel). So if he is confident it will do that - you would be fine with it.

But the stuff is EXPENSIVE!

[Max Preload]

Or are you taking the wee's? It's getting harder to tell on hereHe's not. Some are TTY as above. You can tell because they're torqued to a specified torque then plus an angle like say 90º. They should be replaced every time as when they're used they're stretched beyond their elastic range, through yield and just into plastic deformation. They'll never perform the same if removed and refitted.

[bsasuper]

So I gather you did actually ask the dealer if they used the putty?Have you owned this bike from new? It wont get anywhere near holding against head bolt torque.

I brought a cb750 which looked and ran mint, couple of weeks later when washing it I noticed after real close inspection there was a 2 inch hole in the lower crankcase which had been fixed with magic putty.I kept it that way till I sold it 3yrs later (yes I did point it out to new owner, he was fine with it)

Ohh and I reuse head bolts 2 times, just torque them an extra 8nm

[The Stranger]

we i've never replaced head bolts (and i've reused a few with no issues) unless i destroyed them taking them off with an angle grinder etc, but i've just always thought that they were single use items cos they stretch or something.

Some bolts are single use. Not uncommon to find mains and big end bolts are single use. Usually when a bolt is single use the manual will state this.
I've not found a head bolt yet listed as single use, though some call for taking measurements and discarding of outside of various parameters.