"Gee, I'm dumb"

[Elysium]

I agree. How much are we paying this idiot?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4745902/Gee-I-m-dumb-Hone-Harawira-forgets-to-vote

[oneofsix]

I agree. How much are we paying this idiot?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4745902/Gee-I-m-dumb-Hone-Harawira-forgets-to-vote

Too much.
It was only the second vote so doesn't count for much, the final vote is the one he has to really get right.
Guess he was too used to his party looking after him. perhaps he needs his mummy to tell him when he needs to be in the house.

[White trash]

The man's not a politicians arsehole, he's a shit stirrer and nothing more.

[Banditbandit]

Tēnā ra tatou katoa.

Yep, I'd have to admit that was DUMB DUMB DUMB ...

He never was going to suceed in Parliament ... He was picked because he was "high profile" ...

[steve_t]

I agree. How much are we paying this idiot?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4745902/Gee-I-m-dumb-Hone-Harawira-forgets-to-vote

$135,000 plus perks :facepalm:

[oneofsix]

$135,000 plus perks :facepalm:

did he just earn himself a pay cut by leaving the party or do backbenchers and independents get the same?

[admenk]

"Gee, I'm dumb"


Most accurate thing he's ever said, and we thought politicians just lie !!

[slofox]

I agree. How much are we paying this idiot?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4745902/Gee-I-m-dumb-Hone-Harawira-forgets-to-vote

Same as all the other idiots in there...

[Toaster]

The man's not a politicians arsehole, he's a shit stirrer and nothing more.

Activists in Government have been nothing but a waste of valuable taxpayer resources.

MP's in general are a disgrace accepting payrises year on year when everyone else is told to cut back and tighten our belts and expect nothing to boost our long-suffering wages and ever diminishing superannuation.

[Toaster]

He was picked because he was "high profile" ...

My nostrils are high profile, doesn't mean I pick them.

I am seriously sick of idiots being allowed in Parliament under MMP.

[oneofsix]

My nostrils are high profile, doesn't mean I pick them.

I am seriously sick of idiots being allowed in Parliament under MMP.

this one would have got there under FFP

[Toaster]

this one would have got there under FFP

Quite possibly, but at least under FFP we had LESS of these self serving money grabbers.

They are supposed to serve NZ and set an example.

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

I agree. How much are we paying this idiot?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4745902/Gee-I-m-dumb-Hone-Harawira-forgets-to-vote

Funniest thing I've read in a while.

[Banditbandit]

My nostrils are high profile, doesn't mean I pick them.

I am seriously sick of idiots being allowed in Parliament under MMP.

And there weren't idiots in Parliament under FPTP? Get real ..

[awa355]

It was obviously a devious scheme by those Motherf**king, land grabbing, colonial rapists from the motherland to have the vote on a Monday.

Everyone knows that up north the weekend is a 3 day affair.

[Dave Lobster]

Was he having a maori day?

[Mully]

What a fucking clown.

I know it wouldn't have made a jot of difference had he voted, but the fucking principle or the thing.

I hope his electorate are watching that.

[riffer]

Come on guys are you that ignorant?

You're all falling for the dumb hori act. I don't believe it for a minute. This was planned.

[oldrider]

My nostrils are high profile, doesn't mean I pick them.

I am seriously sick of idiots being allowed in Parliament under MMP.

Well believe it or not, Chris Carter is "still" there!

I think he sits right next to Honi ..... ! (I think it must be the only job where you get the sack and just carry on as if nothing happened!)

[Toaster]

And there weren't idiots in Parliament under FPTP? Get real ..

I didn't say there wasn't idiots already there, but at least we got to vote them in.

[JimO]

Come on guys are you that ignorant?

You're all falling for the dumb hori act. I don't believe it for a minute. This was planned.

i agree 100%

[davebullet]

I agree. How much are we paying this idiot?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4745902/Gee-I-m-dumb-Hone-Harawira-forgets-to-vote

Hone is NZ's answer to Charlie Sheen.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Tēnā ra tatou katoa.

Yep, I'd have to admit that was DUMB DUMB DUMB ...

He never was going to suceed in Parliament ... He was picked because he was "high profile" ...

indeed. Some might question the relevance of a stone age, tribal autocracy, where promotion is based on profile, and who you're related to, in a modern parliamentary democracy.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hone is NZ's answer to Charlie Sheen.

he has tiger blood, bangs 7 gram rocks, fucks pr0n stars?

[Headbanger]

Its fucked.

Part of these fuckers job is to vote on shit, and they employ assistants to do it for them?

fuck me.


Line em up and shoot the fucks.

I want an assistant to do my job so I can skive off home early.

[Banditbandit]

My nostrils are high profile, doesn't mean I pick them.

I am seriously sick of idiots being allowed in Parliament under MMP.

Hey - I'm not defending the man .. I thought at the time he would never make a good MP ...



Quite possibly, but at least under FFP we had LESS of these self serving money grabbers.

They are supposed to serve NZ and set an example.

You're joking right?


It was obviously a devious scheme by those Motherf**king, land grabbing, colonial rapists from the motherland to have the vote on a Monday.

Everyone knows that up north the weekend is a 3 day affair.

Parliament only sits Tuesday to Thursday - what other fuckers do we pay that much money for a trhree-day week?


indeed. Some might question the relevance of a stone age, tribal autocracy, where promotion is based on profile, and who you're related to, in a modern parliamentary democracy.

Hang about, aren't MPs all voted in because they are high profile? Who gets to stand depends on who you know and who you are related to (Muldoon, for instance, married the daughter of the national party President and was given a "safe" Nat seat in teh house ...


Its fucked.

Part of these fuckers job is to vote on shit, and they employ assistants to do it for them?

fuck me.


Line em up and shoot the fucks.

I want an assistant to do my job so I can skive off home early.

Yeah. I watched Parliamentary TV that night - an important bill like that and the house was fucking empty - The whips all declared the vote for their party but fuck all of the MPs were there - even Key wasn't.

[oldrider]

Yeah. I watched Parliamentary TV that night - an important bill like that and the house was fucking empty - The whips all declared the vote for their party but fuck all of the MPs were there - even Key wasn't.

Have to say I noticed the MT house too! :facepalm:

[Dave Lobster]

indeed. Some might question the relevance of a stone age, tribal autocracy, where promotion is based on profile, and who you're related to, in a modern parliamentary democracy.

Isn't it something to do with something called mana?

[oneofsix]

Isn't it something to do with something called mana?

bugger I thought it was to do with his momma :shutup:

[Dave Lobster]

bugger I thought it was to do with his momma :shutup:

Same thing??

[Swoop]

You're all falling for the dumb hori act. I don't believe it for a minute. This was planned.
You believe he has the mental capacity to plan ahead???:gob:

[riffer]

You believe he has the mental capacity to plan ahead???:gob:

I believe he has the ability to follow a pre-prepared script.

[oneofsix]

I believe he has the ability to follow a pre-prepared script.

:yes: that is why he was the one chosen to go to parliament

[awa355]

:yes: that is why he was the one chosen to go to parliament

Why, Cause he could read?

[oneofsix]

Why, Cause he could read?

not necessary, more important he do as he's was told, and I don't mean by his party.

[Banditbandit]

Isn't it something to do with something called mana?

Hmm .. I don't want to say yes or no to that question ... mana is both inherited and earned ...

People can lose the mana they've inherited through their behaviour ... and also enhance the mana they've inherited through their behaviour ...

I will say that it is not up to Pākehā to comment on the mana of a Māori individual ... but I know you'll draw your own conclusions .. those conclusions just might not be the same as ours ...

[Banditbandit]

You believe he has the mental capacity to plan ahead???:gob:


I believe he has the ability to follow a pre-prepared script.

The man is no fool within his own sphere. He has done a lot of good work for Māori, which you will have never seen or heard about because it has never been shown in the media ...

What you all have seen of Hone in the media is his radical side (which many of us happen to agree with and support). So be careful making judgements abotu the man on your limited knowledge ...

However, I will say that when he was selected for Te Taitokerau I knew he would not be a good MP ... for many reasons ... and that's how it's turned out.

[JimO]

The man is no fool within his own sphere. He has done a lot of good work for Māori, which you will have never seen or heard about because it has never been shown in the media ...

What you all have seen of Hone in the media is his radical side (which many of us happen to agree with and support). So be careful making judgements abotu the man on your limited knowledge ...

However, I will say that when he was selected for Te Taitokerau I knew he would not be a good MP ... for many reasons ... and that's how it's turned out.

so you wouldnt want you daughter bringing home a european either??

[Dave Lobster]

The man is no fool within his own sphere. He has done a lot of good work for Māori, which you will have never seen or heard about because it has never been shown in the media ...



Three examples then, for those of us ignorant of this 'good work' aimed (rather racistly, you imply) at Maori.




What you all have seen of Hone in the media is his radical side (which many of us happen to agree with and support). So be careful making judgements abotu the man on your limited knowledge ...



My judgement is that he as relevent to New Zealand as a Gaelic radical is to Scotland. It's likely that the Gaelic radical is likely to be less bigoted, ignorant and racist.

[oneofsix]

Three examples then, for those of us ignorant of this 'good work' aimed (rather racistly, you imply) at Maori.
:clap:



My judgement is that he as relevent to New Zealand as a Gaelic radical is to Scotland. It's likely that the Gaelic radical is likely to be less bigoted, ignorant and racist.
:clap:
+1

[Banditbandit]

so you wouldnt want you daughter bringing home a european either??

That's not quite what Hone said. And how many on this forum would feel "uncomfortable" (his word) if their daughter brought home a Māori? Honestly ...

I'm not accusing anyone, but from responses in this forum I suspect many fathers would be uncomfortable if their daughter did bring home a Māori man as a potential partner ...

[oneofsix]

That's not quite what Hone said. And how many on this forum would feel "uncomfortable" (his word) if their daughter brought home a Māori? Honestly ...

I'm not accusing anyone, but from responses in this forum I suspect many fathers would be uncomfortable if their daughter did bring home a Māori man as a potential partner ...

She did. His race wasn't an issue. Sorry to disappoint you - not

[Banditbandit]

Three examples then, for those of us ignorant of this 'good work' aimed (rather racistly, you imply) at Maori.

Three? Naa .. don't know him that well. But he did a lot of work with the whakaruruhau which established Māori radio .. and then with Māori TV .. there's two ...


My judgement is that he as relevent to New Zealand as a Gaelic radical is to Scotland. It's likely that the Gaelic radical is likely to be less bigoted, ignorant and racist.

Hmm ... and the Gaelic radicals got a Scottish Parliament didn't they ...

[Banditbandit]

She did. His race wasn't an issue. Sorry to disappoint you - not

Hey - I expect that many people here would also be comfortable .. I'm not tarring everyone withe the same brush ..

[Elysium]

See old Hone thinks there momentum for another poitical party :rolleyes:
Great just what this country needs, another race based political party.

[Dave Lobster]

Hmm ... and the Gaelic radicals got a Scottish Parliament didn't they ...

No they didn't. We got regional devolution. Read more. It's good for you.

[slofox]

See old Hone thinks there momentum for another poitical party :rolleyes:
.

He was talking about it this morning on RNZ...prolly call it the "don't forget to vote" party...:whistle:

[SPman]

Quite possibly, but at least under FFP we had LESS of these self serving money grabbers.

They are supposed to serve NZ and set an example.
I thought they did - bitch and moan about those with less than themselves, lie, cheat, and look after number one first, then a few of their mates, whilst not giving a shit about the general populace and making grandious laws and statements with little or no facts to back them up......

yep

the example has been well learnt!

[avgas]

$135,000 plus perks :facepalm:
Surely it would be cheaper to get a hitman

[ynot slow]

"We'll call him the mesiah","rubbish he's a naughty boy",should've called him Brian.

[wtf?]

I will say that it is not up to Pākehā to comment on the mana of a Māori individual ... but I know you'll draw your own conclusions .. those conclusions just might not be the same as ours ...

BULLSHIT

Just because Maori actually have a word for something doesnt give them exclusive rights to the concept. Maori and non Maori alike may or may not accord him "mana" as they see it. Why do Maori speak english spattered with maori words for such things and then claim exclusive rights? Is it a relevance deprivation insecurity?

Normally, if speaking one language and using words from another is reserved for when the former does not have a word for what you're talking about. Newsflash- english has quite a few words for mana.

He doesn't do himself many favours to engender "mana" from many segments of the population. Fuck him, he's the biggest racist in this country and does his own cause more harm than good.

[JimO]

where do you get a keyboard with a little line over the a

[Swoop]

"We'll call him the mesiah","rubbish he's a naughty boy",should've called him Brian.
Sorry, but that name's currently in use by Mr Tamaki.

[Drunken Monkey]

where do you get a keyboard with a little line over the a

ALT + 0257 should do it, but the editor must support UNICODE.

[Banditbandit]

where do you get a keyboard with a little line over the a

It's called a macron and it indicates a long vowel. You can set it up yourself as all the macrons are in Word under symbols - just set up hot keys for them.

These are important in te reo Māori as they change the meaning of words - "matau" means a fish hook, "mātau" means "us" - so it's important to use macrons when writing in our reo.

[Banditbandit]

BULLSHIT

Just because Maori actually have a word for something doesnt give them exclusive rights to the concept. Maori and non Maori alike may or may not accord him "mana" as they see it. Why do Maori speak english spattered with maori words for such things and then claim exclusive rights? Is it a relevance deprivation insecurity?



I was not commenting on the use of the word, tho' I doubt that we agree on its meaning ... asn the concept is not the same from different cultures.

I do not hold Hone in high regard as a MP ... never have ...

[Dave Lobster]

Is this a recent thing? I'm under the impression that the maori didn't have a written language until the white man came.

[Banditbandit]

Is this a recent thing? I'm under the impression that the maori didn't have a written language until the white man came.

You are right - and in a sense it is a recent thing - in that until "recently" we didn't have a written language ...

However, it's an old linguistic sign that indicates a long vowel - not a "new" thing at alll - used in many languages, but I'm no linguist.

Go here for the font of all knowledge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrons

[oneofsix]

Is this a recent thing? I'm under the impression that the maori didn't have a written language until the white man came.

Sorry but I think it is one of those snob things. Look I'm doing it right and you are wrong things. In English we are taught that the vowels have different sounds and don't use macrons for "bow". However the way we pronounce bow and the context of the sentence tells you if it is long or short vowel, if it is a thing to shot arrows with or to bend at the waist (nearly got the wrong waste :clap:). The computers don't easily type the macrons and people will mis-use them with out education so why not just teach people the Maori vowels?

[riffer]

No they didn't. We got regional devolution. Read more. It's good for you.

Before the Acts of Union in 1707 that was instituted by England at the point of the gun Scotland had an independent parliament called the Three Estates. The Scottish wanted to retain a "devolved" parliament but the English "negotiators" refused to comply.

It was Harold Wilson's Kilbrandon Commission, in response to the rise in Scottish nationalism (which some may call Gaelic Radicalism) and the furore over "England stealing Scotland's Oil" that recommended the establishment of a Scottish Assembly.

I heard a lot about this growing up, given that's where my family are from.

[Banditbandit]

Sorry but I think it is one of those snob things. Look I'm doing it right and you are wrong things. In English we are taught that the vowels have different sounds and don't use macrons for "bow". However the way we pronounce bow and the context of the sentence tells you if it is long or short vowel, if it is a thing to shot arrows with or to bend at the waist (nearly got the wrong waste :clap:). The computers don't easily type the macrons and people will mis-use them with out education so why not just teach people the Maori vowels?

Hmm ... yes .. errrr ...

English is the most difficult language on the fucking planet ... the simple word "bow" has two pronunciations, and at least five meanings ...

A ships bow
To bow to the queen (sod that for a game of silly buggas)
Bow wow
Tie your bow
Shoot your bow ...

Then we have the same sound in "bough" - the bough of a tree ... and yet cough is not cow ...

Dunno .. I didn't invent the bloody silly language

Māori is much more simple .. five tonal vowel sounds - short or long, meaning 10 vowel sounds in total ... much easier to indicate the way to say the vowel with macrons (absence or presence) ...

Why do you want us to do do thinks your complicated way? White people have been telling us to "do it our way" for a couple of hundred years ... and the answer is still no ....

How would you feel if us people tried to tell you people how to write your language?

[Dave Lobster]

why not just teach people the Maori vowels?

Why not teach the maori English?



White people have been telling us to "do it our way" for a couple of hundred years ... and the answer is still no ....

If you did, instead of resisting like a truculent child, you might find the maori getting on a bit better.

[Banditbandit]

If you did, instead of resisting like a truculent child, you might find the maori getting on a bit better.

Just maybe, there are better ways of being than those of our European derived cultures ...

[oneofsix]

Just maybe, there are better ways of being than those of our European derived cultures ...

You don't have to do it the European way, NB: macrons are most associate with European languages like French :weird:
If you don't do it the "European way" then don't complain when you don't make the standards or have the life style and remember it was your choice so don't blame those that chose the European way.
Computers still don't have macrons as standard so you are still screwed at getting consistency of use and therefore IMHO doomed to failure.
BTW computers are the USA way in case you were wondering, like most of the other standards of the modern world. The European way was so last century.

[Banditbandit]

You don't have to do it the European way, NB: macrons are most associate with European languages like French :weird:
If you don't do it the "European way" then don't complain when you don't make the standards or have the life style and remember it was your choice so don't blame those that chose the European way.
Computers still don't have macrons as standard so you are still screwed at getting consistency of use and therefore IMHO doomed to failure.
BTW computers are the USA way in case you were wondering, like most of the other standards of the modern world. The European way was so last century.

You've missed the essential difference between ways of being and ways of doing ...

[Dave Lobster]

You've missed the essential difference between ways of being and ways of doing ...

Does one have a welfare state, and the other rely on dying before reaching pension age?

[oneofsix]

You've missed the essential difference between ways of being and ways of doing ...

Inter-related. Cause and affect over large populations.

[scumdog]

Māori is much more simple .. five tonal vowel sounds - short or long, meaning 10 vowel sounds in total ... much easier to indicate the way to say the vowel with macrons (absence or presence) ...

Why do you want us to do do thinks your complicated way? White people have been telling us to "do it our way" for a couple of hundred years ... and the answer is still no ....

How would you feel if us people tried to tell you people how to write your language?

(a) You would still have to learn different spellings for different locations. Wahola as said down here would be said as Waihora up north for example.

(b) Well...if you didn't have a written language to start with......<_<

[Dave Lobster]

(b) Well...if you didn't have a written language to start with......<_<

You'd expect at least a 'thank you, we hadn't thought of that. Put it over there, with that wheel thing'.

[oneofsix]

You'd expect at least a 'thank you, we hadn't thought of that. Put it over there, with that wheel thing'.

does that come with muskets?

[BoristheBiter]

Hmm ... yes .. errrr ...

English is the most difficult language on the fucking planet ... the simple word "bow" has two pronunciations, and at least five meanings ...

A ships bow
To bow to the queen (sod that for a game of silly buggas)
Bow wow
Tie your bow
Shoot your bow ...

Then we have the same sound in "bough" - the bough of a tree ... and yet cough is not cow ...

Dunno .. I didn't invent the bloody silly language

Māori is much more simple .. five tonal vowel sounds - short or long, meaning 10 vowel sounds in total ... much easier to indicate the way to say the vowel with macrons (absence or presence) ...

Why do you want us to do do thinks your complicated way? White people have been telling us to "do it our way" for a couple of hundred years ... and the answer is still no ....

How would you feel if us people tried to tell you people how to write your language?

Is that with or without a H?

And the answer has never been no, its been need more money.

[Banditbandit]

Inter-related. Cause and affect over large populations.

Of course ... and Marx's classic reverse of Hegel "the way we live influences the way we think" ...

Fundamentally, Māori ways of being in the world are different from those of the Western cultures. We have different ontologies and epistemologies ...

[Dave Lobster]

does that come with muskets?

Not if you want to swap back in two hundred years, no.

[Banditbandit]

(a) (b) Well...if you didn't have a written language to start with......<_<

Once upon a time the European cultures didn't have a written alphabet ... it was borrowed from the Phoenicians (what is now Palestine) through Greek then Latin to become what is used today ...

Do your coments then apply .. You didn't have a written language to start with ..

And our numbering system - the oldest one is Babylonian (In Iraq) our current system has contributions from China .. but we largely used the system developed by the Hindu and Arabic mathematians ... so you didn't have a numbering system to start with either ...

If the basic ways of naming and counting the world are not European .. where does that leave your postion?

Can't we also make use of the development of knowledge of the rest of the world - just as the European cultures have done?

[Banditbandit]

Not if you want to swap back in two hundred years, no.

And who said we wanted to do that? Only the Pākehā ...

[Banditbandit]

Is that with or without a H?

And the answer has never been no, its been need more money.

Yeah .. because in the past when we said NO you shot at us (OK ... swap the pronouns - this is no personal attack or nor a suggestion that the people alive today did that)

[Banditbandit]

Why not teach the maori English?



If you did, instead of resisting like a truculent child, you might find the maori getting on a bit better.

On who's terms would we be "getting on a bit better" and at what cost?

200 years of trying to teach us your ways has seen a massive rise in Māori crime rates, poor educational outcomes, sickness, drug and alcohol abuse, domestic violence ... etc

If these are the results of the destruction of our culture and the forced adoption of your culture, don't you think it is time to find a better answer - for all of us ????

[Banditbandit]

You don't have to do it the European way, NB: macrons are most associate with European languages like French :weird:

Of course - we are making the best use of the trools of the modern world.



If you don't do it the "European way" then don't complain when you don't make the standards or have the life style and remember it was your choice so don't blame those that chose the European way.

I didn't say the "European Way" .. because I don't mean it in the sense of the racial types, nor in the country. Note that I said "European-derived cultures" ..



Computers still don't have macrons as standard so you are still screwed at getting consistency of use and therefore IMHO doomed to failure.
BTW computers are the USA way in case you were wondering, like most of the other standards of the modern world. The European way was so last century.

Yes ... and the USA has a European-derived culture ...

[Dave Lobster]

And who said we wanted to do that? Only the Pākehā ...

I don't think the white people are forcing the treaty claims or the grabbing hands.




200 years of trying to teach us your ways has seen a massive rise in Māori crime rates, poor educational outcomes, sickness, drug and alcohol abuse, domestic violence ... etc


You're blaming the white people for the maori not doing well at school and drug/alcohol abuse?? Seriously??
The domestic violence is merely a part of the warrior gene.. surely? Aren't maori/pacific people proud of that any more? From what you see in the courts, I thought it was a thriving part of the culture, rather than something to be ashamed of.




If these are the results of the destruction of our culture and the forced adoption of your culture, don't you think it is time to find a better answer - for all of us ????
No. It's time that the minority of maori/pacific people that are intent on being criminals/separatists/etc. pulled their finger out of their ass, grew up a bit and got a job. It IS a minority. Most maori (well.. part maori, let's face it) are normal people with jobs/families/hobbies. The minority would probably find they enjoy their life a bit more if they didn't spend so much of it bleating about how hard done by they are.

[oneofsix]

On who's terms would we be "getting on a bit better" and at what cost?

200 years of trying to teach us your ways has seen a massive rise in Māori crime rates, poor educational outcomes, sickness, drug and alcohol abuse, domestic violence ... etc

If these are the results of the destruction of our culture and the forced adoption of your culture, don't you think it is time to find a better answer - for all of us ????

That's the sort of bullshit I was referring to :woohoo: you go BanditBandit. Lets judge Maori violence by the modern European scale whilst bitching about adopting the culture. :headbang:
And lets forget the tribal violence, slaves, cannibalism etc, etc. How about learning that from the Europeans, they are no longer in denial that they were bastards in the past and celebrate how far they have come.
Is that your problem, that some Maori have decided to reject the European culture, not move forward and now you want to blame that culture because they are stuck in a Victorian or tribal violent culture?

[Banditbandit]

I don't think the white people are forcing the treaty claims or the grabbing hands.

My commetn was in reference to another comment about wanting to return to a pre-European culture. We've never wanted that ...



You're blaming the white people for the maori not doing well at school and drug/alcohol abuse?? Seriously??

Blame is the wrong word ... and I'm not looking for excuses for the behaviour of some of our people ... there is plenty of research (starting with Franz Fanon) which shows the effects of 19th Century colonization on indigenous populations - it's the same the world over.

Some of us are certainly trying to addfress those very issues within our community - but not by adopting ways of the European-derived cultures, but by returning to the values of Māotri culture.



The domestic violence is merely a part of the warrior gene.. surely? Aren't maori/pacific people proud of that any more? From what you see in the courts, I thought it was a thriving part of the culture, rather than something to be ashamed of.

What warrior gene? Sure my Māori ancestors were warriors - but domestic violence was not paert of the culture. It's a behaviouir learnt from the Eurpoean settlers, and a frustration response ...



No. It's time that the minority of maori/pacific people that are intent on being criminals/separatists/etc. pulled their finger out of their ass, grew up a bit and got a job. It IS a minority. Most maori (well.. part maori, let's face it) are normal people with jobs/families/hobbies. The minority would probably find they enjoy their life a bit more if they didn't spend so much of it bleating about how hard done by they are.

I happen to agree with you there. That's part of why I work in education - because without it our people can only get low paid, seasonal work and other labouring jobs ..

[scumdog]

200 years of trying to teach us your ways has seen a massive rise in Māori crime rates, poor educational outcomes, sickness, drug and alcohol abuse, domestic violence ... etc

Only for the losers.

How come there's shit-loads of Maori who never get into trouble, work hard, embrace their culture and live in the 21st century without looking back at real or imagined injustices in their past every couple of minutes - and don't bleat on about how honky done them wrong and owes them a living??

[admenk]

The minority would probably find they enjoy their life a bit more if they didn't spend so much of it bleating about how hard done by they are.

I think that's called human nature and applies to all cultures and races. If we're honest it's also often the majority of us from time to time !

[Dave Lobster]

Only for the losers.

How come there's shit-loads of Maori who never get into trouble, work hard, embrace their culture and live in the 21st century without looking back at real or imagined injustices in their past every couple of minutes - and don't bleat on about how honky done them wrong and owes them a living??

Because they're not followers of the maori party line of:
You're a poor little nigger that should feel sorry for yourself.


I think that's called human nature and applies to all cultures and races. If we're honest it's also often the majority of us from time to time !

Not guilty on that one!

[Banditbandit]

That's the sort of bullshit I was referring to :woohoo: you go BanditBandit. Lets judge Maori violence by the modern European scale whilst bitching about adopting the culture. :headbang:

I prefer to see it as judging it by a human scale ...



And lets forget the tribal violence, slaves, cannibalism etc, etc.

Tribal violence, slaves and cannibalism are all part of European history as well. (Cannibalism was minor but did occur occassionally even tho' it was prohibited) ... slavery was abolished in Britain and most of the emopire in 1833 ... after the arrival of Europeans in this part of the world ... your history of slavery is no older than ours ...

But how is the violent HUMAN past relevent now?



How about learning that from the Europeans, they are no longer in denial that they were bastards in the past and celebrate how far they have come.
Is that your problem, that some Maori have decided to reject the European culture, not move forward and now you want to blame that culture because they are stuck in a Victorian or tribal violent culture?

Of course we have learnt from the Europeans ... we have not rejected European culture, or its derivatives such as Pākehā culture, in its entirety ... we have adapted some Eurpoean cultural customs into our culture, just as Pākehā New Zealand has adapted some Māori customs and practises into it's culture .. this is what makes Pākehā culture unique ... Both cultures are chaging al the time, as a result of the interactions between us ... I am against forcing people to adopt those ways as the consequences can be as discussed above ...

Of course we want to move forward - on our terms ... and our culture is not stuck in Victorian Culture - any more than Pākehā culture is ..

And violence is not limited to Māori ... Pākehā culture is just as violent ... hmm .. I want to qualify that as little but not much .. not sure how to express what I mean ... but domestic violence and other forms of violence are not limited to Māori culture ... Pākehā parents beat their children too ... the violence of the Māori street gangs (blacks, Mongs etc) is the same as the violence in the patched motorcycle clubs which are largely European-descent memebrs ... Pākehā fathers hit their kids .. in fact the "anti-smacking law" people are largely made up of Pākehā NZers with a few Pacific Islanders ... no Māori voices opposed that law ....

As I said, pre-Eurpoean Māori culture did not condone child abuse .. in fact there are old stories of one partner abusing a child and the other partner's family taking action against the violent person ... children were cherished and loved ... they are our immortality .. we need to return our people to those values ...

Domestic Violence started with the arrival of the European settlers and the domination of their cultures. Is there a causal link? I believe so ...

[Banditbandit]

Only for the losers.

How come there's shit-loads of Maori who never get into trouble, work hard, embrace their culture and live in the 21st century without looking back at real or imagined injustices in their past every couple of minutes - and don't bleat on about how honky done them wrong and owes them a living??

Yes. But that does not invalid the reasons for the behavours of others who do ... (not bleat about being owed a living .. I don't support that behaviour at all ...)

And don't think I'm looking for excuses for criminal behaviour .. yes, Colonisation may partly give a reason .. but not a justification or an excuse .. and adults make their own decisions .. we need to lok at the whole picture .. noty just part of it .. to see the way forward

How come there are Pākehā in jail when other Pākehā are not? We are all human beings .. and some of us are just bad, lazy, don't care ... drop them in jail, boot them in arse ... race or culture doesn't matter ...

[Banditbandit]

Jeez .. my spelling and typing goes to hell when I get passionate ...

[Dave Lobster]

Of course we have learnt from the Europeans ... we have not rejected European culture, or its derivatives such as Pākehā culture, in its entirety ... we have adapted some Eurpoean cultural customs into our culture,


You'd struggle not to really. Everyone claiming to be maori is what, 50% maori at the most??




And violence is not limited to Māori ... Pākehā culture is just as violent ... hmm .. I want to qualify that as little but not much .. not sure how to express what I mean ... but domestic violence and other forms of violence are not limited to Māori culture ... Pākehā parents beat their children too ... the violence of the Māori street gangs (blacks, Mongs etc) is the same as the violence in the patched motorcycle clubs which are largely European-descent memebrs ... Pākehā fathers hit their kids .. in fact the "anti-smacking law" people are largely made up of Pākehā NZers with a few Pacific Islanders ... no Māori voices opposed that law ....


Rubbish. Stand in a court for a day.. any court. Manukau/North shore/Hastings/anywhere. A steady line of moari/pacific islanders trooping through for violence charges/gang charges/drugs charges.
No maori voices opposed the anti smacking law, you say? Why would they? The hidings they were giving the children were illegal before the law change. What difference would the law make to them?!



As I said, pre-Eurpoean Māori culture did not condone child abuse .. in fact there are old stories of one partner abusing a child and the other partner's family taking action against the violent person ... children were cherished and loved ... they are our immortality .. we need to return our people to those values ...


There are stories about a lot of things. That's why they're just stories.



Domestic Violence started with the arrival of the European settlers and the domination of their cultures. Is there a causal link? I believe so ...

Eh? White people turn up and that started maori beating people?
You don't really believe that, do you??

[Banditbandit]

You'd struggle not to really. Everyone claiming to be maori is what, 50% maori at the most??

And that is important because? You seem to think this is about race ... and therefoere blood quantum is important. To me it is about culture .. and blood quantum is irrelevant.


Rubbish. Stand in a court for a day.. any court. Manukau/North shore/Hastings/anywhere. A steady line of moari/pacific islanders trooping through for violence charges/gang charges/drugs charges.

And? I fail to see your point. Or maybe you are saying there were no Pākehā in court for those offences, so they are not committing those offenses? Now I'll say BULLSHIT!!! Maybe the popos didnt arrest them (nice white people like ) maybe they weren't reported to the popos by their neighbours .. maybe the beaten wives just wore long sleeves and sunglasses ... lots of maybes ...


No maori voices opposed the anti smacking law, you say? Why would they? The hidings they were giving the children were illegal before the law change. What difference would the law make to them?!

Or maybe because the people who could have spoken out thought it was a good law change and would help us reduce domestic violence in our communities.


There are stories about a lot of things. That's why they're just stories.



Eh? White people turn up and that started maori beating people?
You don't really believe that, do you??

The rest .. Hmm . there is such a large distparity between our worldviews that's it's nearly impossible for me to respond ...

And there lies the basic problem .. while we speak the same language (NZ English) there is very little in common between our weltanschuaang.

[Dave Lobster]

Hmm . there is such a large distparity between our worldviews that's it's nearly impossible for me to respond ...

Is yours mostly european and slightly maori then??

[admenk]

Banditbandit - do you ever get the idea that you're the lone Maori voice on here? :innocent:

[Banditbandit]

Is yours mostly european and slightly maori then??

It's definitely a mixture of both .. does that make my typically new Zealand ??

[Banditbandit]

Banditbandit - do you ever get the idea that you're the lone Maori voice on here? :innocent:

I know I'm not .. but clearly the only active one ... I knew it would be like this when I stepped in as a Māori voice ...

But these are debates that the whole country needs to have ..

[admenk]

I know I'm not .. but clearly the only active one ... I knew it would be like this when I stepped in as a Māori voice ...

But these are debates that the whole country needs to have ..

...and so, cleverly bringing this thread back onto the original topic :woohoo:, maybe you could be the next Hone ? You certainly seem to have better debating skills and we could all club together to buy you a personal organizer so you don't forget to vote.

Banditbandit for PM !! :clap:

[oneofsix]

It's definitely a mixture of both .. does that make my typically new Zealand ??

yes, mixed up and screwed over like the rest of us. Great country aint it.

[oneofsix]

I know I'm not .. but clearly the only active one ... I knew it would be like this when I stepped in as a Māori voice ...

But these are debates that the whole country needs to have ..

+1 just that on KB you know people aren't afraid to offend, actually some set out to offend but opinions are air openly and can be debated.

[Banditbandit]

Banditbandit for PM !! :clap:

NO CHANCE ... first of all I's not squeaky clean ... no convictions but enough of a history that I wouldn't want opponents picking up and making public ...

Secondly, There's no way I want to go back to that madhouse called Parliament. I worked there for a very short time in the 1980s (not as an MP) and couldn't get out fast enough ...

Thirdly, I like flying under the radar ... that's where real freedom lies ... in anonymity.

[Banditbandit]

yes, mixed up and screwed over like the rest of us. Great country aint it.

YUP wouldn't swap it for any other ...


+1 just that on KB you know people aren't afraid to offend, actually some set out to offend but opinions are air openly and can be debated.

Yes, the anonymity of the forum allows for a greater debate because people aren't afraid to speak their minds.

[avgas]

Jeez .. my spelling and typing goes to hell when I get passionate ...
Passion Cramps aye?:tugger:

Do what I do, take deep breaths and relax.
KY also helps.

[Banditbandit]

Passion Cramps aye?:tugger:

Do what I do, take deep breaths and relax.
KY also helps.

Naaa .. brain fatser than fingers ...

KY ???? Isn't that a gel? I have a distinct preference for THC ... but only after hours ...

Oh .. hang about ... that took a few moments to click in ... but yeah ... I still prefer THC.

[avgas]

Naaa .. brain fatser than fingers ...

KY ???? Isn't that a gel? I have a distinct preference for THC ... but only after hours ...

Oh .. hang about ... that took a few moments to click in ... but yeah ... I still prefer THC.
I used to like it that way.
But it freaked me out when my imaginary lovers become all to real.

[Banditbandit]

I used to like it that way.
But it freaked me out when my imaginary lovers become all to real.

:ROFL: Mine are not imaginary ...