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XP@
23rd June 2005, 23:41
Barriers prevent cars from running off the road or having head-on collisions. But they are a serious hazard for motorcycle riders.

Ride conservatively. If you are forced against a barrier by another vehicle or you crash into one, you'll face serious injury or death.

After this text the page has pictures of the different types of barrier. There is one type missing...

Ixion
23rd June 2005, 23:43
After this text the page has pictures of the different types of barrier. There is one type missing...

Haven't looked, but .... Cheesecutter ?

XP@
24th June 2005, 00:20
Haven't looked, but .... Cheesecutter ?
Sure you didn't cheat?

Pwalo
24th June 2005, 08:44
Quote:
Barriers prevent cars from running off the road or having head-on collisions. But they are a serious hazard for motorcycle riders.

Ride conservatively. If you are forced against a barrier by another vehicle or you crash into one, you'll face serious injury or death.


My question is: If LTSNZ is supposed to look after the safety of NZ road users why are they installing potentially lethal safety features.

Yes I understand about the costs etc, but philisophically it seems dubious to put a group (albiet a small group) of road users at risk to reduce the potential risk to other road users.

Ixion
24th June 2005, 08:57
Sure you didn't cheat?

Nah, I assumed you wonuldn't mention it unless it was the infamous cheesecutter

bugjuice
24th June 2005, 09:06
I don't know what kind of arguement this would be tho. On one hand, you have vehicles of several tons on the other side of the road, carining out of control at you, and a barrier saves your life and quite likely 10s of others.

On the other hand, if a car sideswipes you and forces you at the barrier, it's gonna have a leg off you for starters..

But, a bit of quick thinking might help, as in pull you leg up, jump, grab the roof of the car.. dunno.. all big things to do, but the body has an amazing reflex for most of us when faced with such dangers.

As dangerous etc as they are to us, I don't think I'd want them changed, and I can't think of a safe alternative for us. If one could be found, great, but how would it stop an 18 wheeler from crossing the path, but keep us soft from harm?

R6_kid
24th June 2005, 09:42
the cheese cutter is dangerous to cars too...

saw 2 people trapped in a car that had gone through one side of the barrier, rotated through being perpindicular to the wires, and then ended up being held down under the wires facing the wrong way. The car was seriously fucked up but had served its purpose - stopping the car from going onto the other side of the motorway. :weird:

personally if i can avoid being near too many cages i will, even it means doing a little blat up to 140kmh on the motorway to get into a gap in the flow.

placidfemme
24th June 2005, 09:45
When you say cheese cutter... do you mean the poles with thick wire between them and not a solid barrier?

bugjuice
24th June 2005, 09:48
When you say cheese cutter... do you mean the poles with thick wire between them and not a solid barrier?
that's the one... like on the northern over the bridge

placidfemme
24th June 2005, 09:49
Sweet thank you :)

Firefight
24th June 2005, 09:51
from Franklin County News June 21 2005.

Headline- Wire Rope will save lives, says Transit.

Transit NZ says the instalation of a 9 k wire rope barrier on state h/way 1 north of Rangiriri will save lives by preventing head on crashes.

Regional manager, Chris allen says the barrier project is almost complete and will hopefully mean an end to the high number of severe crashes on this section of Highway.

"It is our analysis of the crashes that prompted us to propose the barrier as a safety solution. many of the serious crashes involved cars crossing the center line resulting in head on crahses and multiple fatalies."

"The medium barrier will prevent cars crossing over into on coming traffic"

In the 10 years to 2004 17 people died in 12 fatal crashes on this stretch of highway.Nine of these were head on collisions.

Mr Allen said monitoring of other sections of wire rope barrier on NZ highways had showen their effectivness in preventing head on crashes.

"On the exspressway south of Rangariri , we have had one vehicle a month hitting the barrier. In all cases, the rope had stoped the vehicle crossing into the path of oncoming traffic."



F/F :ride:

placidfemme
24th June 2005, 09:57
"It is our analysis of the crashes that prompted us to propose the barrier as a safety solution. many of the serious crashes involved cars crossing the center line resulting in head on crahses and multiple fatalies."

"The medium barrier will prevent cars crossing over into on coming traffic"

*bloody cagers*

Do they use the cheese cutter barrier because it's the cheapest to set up?

Firefight
24th June 2005, 10:01
*bloody cagers*

Do they use the cheese cutter barrier because it's the cheapest to set up?


I would think so.


F/F

bugjuice
24th June 2005, 10:09
*bloody cagers*

Do they use the cheese cutter barrier because it's the cheapest to set up?
it's also quick to replace and doesn't need heavy lifting gear to replace it when it's damaged. It's also scarily effective. I'll have a look for the clip I'm thinking of, I saw a clip of a 18 wheeler going for one of those, and that 'cheese cutter' cut it down and stopped it from crossing the line. It also stopped it in a short distance too.

The 'pegs' or poles that are holding the wire up rip out of the ground, and the wire acts a bit like an elastic band. It gives a little, while guiding the vehicle back to the right side of the road while all the poles are being pinged off.. It works, and it doesn't cost a bomb. It's just a shame that it'll bloody hurt us, and can pin people down in their cars, and cut thru body work.

The other thing, is that if you find yourself being pushed off the road towards one of these, or a barrier etc, it's gonna hurt. So how it hurts is just a minor in comparison. A concrete barrier would just crush your leg..

placidfemme
24th June 2005, 10:27
Thats a really scary thought... I'm always paraniod about where I position myself on the road... and whenever possible I'm always in the second lane from the barrier... not sure if thats really the safest option, but I've been tail-gated so many times that I wouldn't put it past a cager pushing me into the barrier...

This morning on the Southern Motorway, just after the harbour bridge, a taxi changed lanes right into me, without indicating... when he finally noticed there was already another vehicle in that lane (me) he decided to indicated, with all 4 of his wheels already into my lane.... and as those of you who ride from the North Shore know... just past the Shelley Beach off-ramp there is a bus lane, and it's a slight corner/bend in the motorway, with wet roads, and little time to react and brake I had to swerve into the buslane.

If that had happened on the bridge or before the bridge and I was in the far lane... I hate to think what would have happened...

bugjuice
24th June 2005, 10:32
yeah, I'm not overly keen on being pushed around on the bridge..

Always ride/drive in the left lane, unless overtaking. When you've overtaken, move back to the left-most lane. Ride in the middle of the lane too, this gives you a few feet either way for things like taxis pulling across. This will give you time to glide over, while going for the horn, or if you can, and willing, a sharp punch on the window usually scares the crap out of them for a few days and they might remember. Else a good long blast on the horn...

Just so gotta keep your whits about you, all the time.. The time they slip, could be the last! eekk..

placidfemme
24th June 2005, 10:35
:) lol I never plan to get close enough to a cage to hit the window...

*is a stong believer in karma*

I always forget to use my horn... the only time I ever use it, is to wake the security guard up at work so he can un-lock the gate...

*should make a habit of using my horn*

Pixie
24th June 2005, 11:20
The main threat to bikers from the wire, and also the armco barriers, is not being forced onto the barrier while still on the bike,but sliding into the supports after being knocked off.The supports will then proceed to dismember the rider very effectively.That's why armco at racing circuits goes all the way to the ground.
As I mentioned in another post,a french colleague told me that french bikers stopped paying their registration fees until the authorities stopped installing wire barriers.

bugjuice
24th June 2005, 11:35
The main threat to bikers from the wire, and also the armco barriers, is not being forced onto the barrier while still on the bike,but sliding into the supports after being knocked off.The supports will then proceed to dismember the rider very effectively.That's why armco at racing circuits goes all the way to the ground.
As I mentioned in another post,a french colleague told me that french bikers stopped paying their registration fees until the authorities stopped installing wire barriers.
ahh.. good point, forgot about post-bin results.. yeah, well a concrete barrier would just slide you along..
k, I'm in then

Lou Girardin
24th June 2005, 12:20
I think I'll have a clause in my will instructing my executor to sue the shit out of Transit if I die on a cheesecutter barrier.

sAsLEX
24th June 2005, 12:32
As dangerous etc as they are to us, I don't think I'd want them changed, and I can't think of a safe alternative for us. If one could be found, great, but how would it stop an 18 wheeler from crossing the path, but keep us soft from harm?

well i can think of hundreds if given the time, only limiting factor is the cheap cunts up top, who take so much tax from us but are unwilling to provide decent roading systems for us

a concrete barrier is one example to seperate traffic and is used effectively on the MW, just costs too much to do SH1 all up the country. Another effective method would be to have two one lane roads seperated by a distance one going south the other north, but again cost.....


The shape of the barrier also effects how lethal they are to two wheeled peeps
<body>
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| rider over here
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shaped ones were found to be better than below etc
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the thing is $$
</body>

bugjuice
24th June 2005, 13:50
lol.. nice examples..
I see what you're saying tho, the ones that aren't square cut will help to slide you in a less painful way..

What sort of solution is there then, with a simple criteria - stop this dude asap from crossing the line into oncoming traffic:

<centre>http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/martin_phippard/2004/august/klaus_werblow/za04an_023.jpg</center>

while making sure this poor dude is going to have a soft bounce when he meets the centre barrier...

<center>http://www.scigacz.pl/gallery/films/rockingham_pro_street_bike-crash.jpg</center>


not having a go, but could you allow for both? just curious to see what your, or anyone elses ideas are..

I have a couple of ideas, but they're a bit pants..

XP@
24th June 2005, 14:17
This morning on the Southern Motorway, just after the harbour bridge, a taxi changed lanes right into me, without indicating... when he finally noticed there was already another vehicle in that lane (me) he decided to indicated, with all 4 of his wheels already into my lane.... and as those of you who ride from the North Shore know... just past the Shelley Beach off-ramp there is a bus lane, and it's a slight corner/bend in the motorway, with wet roads, and little time to react and brake I had to swerve into the buslane.
This is why you have a gap in front that you can move in to, and if possible a gap behind too. and you know what is around you. Best case is keep your options open, and know which is the best to take. and be as far away from the vehicles in the other lane as possible.

If you get someone pulling in you your space then you can usually either brake and let them in. not always easy if you are being tailgated. or throttle on (drop down a gear if need be).

sAsLEX
24th June 2005, 15:05
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you reckon a truck will just smash through a solid concrete divider with rebar and crap inside it? I think a renforced concrete barrier would be more effective at keeping a dirty big truck on the right side of the road, but will channel the force along the road rather than slowing it down as such, which is a good thing in a way as it doesn't all of a sudden create a barrier for traffic thats behind it and cause a massive pile up.

bugjuice
24th June 2005, 15:17
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you reckon a truck will just smash through a solid concrete divider with rebar and crap inside it? I think a renforced concrete barrier would be more effective at keeping a dirty big truck on the right side of the road, but will channel the force along the road rather than slowing it down as such, which is a good thing in a way as it doesn't all of a sudden create a barrier for traffic thats behind it and cause a massive pile up.
lol..another top drawing
true, and another good point.. may be something similar to the design of the barriers on the back of road work trucks, that yellow thing that folds down? guess something like that could work.. strong plastic too, so it'd be recyclable? but how strong would it be to a truck at 70° angles, for eg?

Lou Girardin
24th June 2005, 15:18
Wide median strips aren't the answer either. A friends sister in law died at Ramarama a few years ago. Her car went across the widest median in the country. Maybe if they're filled with kitty litter they'd be OK.

bugjuice
24th June 2005, 15:22
Wide median strips aren't the answer either. A friends sister in law died at Ramarama a few years ago. Her car went across the widest median in the country. Maybe if they're filled with kitty litter they'd be OK.
so what about the cats while they're using the kitty litter, and they see a truck coming at them mid-pee. They'd be busy goin :pinch: then see it and :blink: then realise what it was :eek5: and realise what they're in the middle of :shit: and then it's all too late :innocent:

XP@
24th June 2005, 15:29
It appears that there is 500million avalible to spend on the roads...
maybe we could convince them to spend some making the roads safer for bikes?

bugjuice
24th June 2005, 15:43
It appears that there is 500million avalible to spend on the roads...
maybe we could convince them to spend some making the roads safer for bikes?
:rofl: tis funny.. if only

XP@
29th June 2005, 16:14
Ozzy Study. (not read it yet)
http://www.atsb.gov.au/road/pdf/mc_barrier_cr201.pdf

Lou Girardin
29th June 2005, 16:52
so what about the cats while they're using the kitty litter, and they see a truck coming at them mid-pee. They'd be busy goin :pinch: then see it and :blink: then realise what it was :eek5: and realise what they're in the middle of :shit: and then it's all too late :innocent:

T'would certainly cure them of constipation.
But if they're anything like our Burmese they'd headbutt the truck out of the way.

Zapf
4th July 2005, 21:53
Ok.... granted the wire rope has been installed. and they'll never go back and rip it out.... so I think the best idea would be to add protective plastic covering so its not a cheese cutter when we hit it.

myvice
16th July 2005, 21:09
Lovely wifey has seen a couple of trucks through the rope on the Southern between Takanini and Drury so they dont work that well,
I like the sand trap idea, works for 747's!

XP@
18th July 2005, 22:40
And if you read the specs for safe location for these barriers then you will see there should be 2m on either side...

I would feel a lot safer with a plastic cover. This would mean that afet a glancing blow I would still be able to carry on and be able to use my foot controlls (as opposed to having to stop and hop back up the road to get my boot (and foot)).

XP@
10th October 2005, 13:59
http://www.finnbike.com/Fema_kaidetutkimus.pdf