Taxes

[NinjaNanna]

I've been thinking, taxes are meant to collectively enable us to buy things and supply services.

Everybody will have a different opinion but what do you think our money is being well spent on and what do you think it is being poorly spent on?

Seems to me we've all got an issue with public spending but what should we go without, or conversely what would you be willing to pay more tax to have?

Household budgets are no different to National Budgets or even Council Budgets, they are a balancing act between income and needs and desires.

[spookytooth]

Bureaucracy
We need one hell of a lot less of it.What ever the hell it is

[rainman]

Thread weather forecast: lots of heat, not much light.

Good luck.

[mashman]

I certainly don't think the Gov Generals mansion being given a $40 million upgrade was value for money.

[Ocean1]

Thread weather forecast: lots of heat, not much light.


:laugh:

Given that fuck all of it's headed my way I'll stick with wishing they took a lot less of my hard earned in the first place.

'Course, if there was special funding for research into the most efficacious quantity of Bourbon, beaches and blondes required to best care and feed decrepit engineers...

[Usarka]

Over half of the price of petrol is tax.

[Ocean1]

Over half of the price of petrol is tax.

Over half the price of everything is tax.

Believe it's something in the order of 57%

[phill-k]

I've been thinking, taxes are meant to collectively enable us to buy things and supply services.

Everybody will have a different opinion but what do you think our money is being well spent on and what do you think it is being poorly spent on?

Seems to me we've all got an issue with public spending but what should we go without, or conversely what would you be willing to pay more tax to have?

Household budgets are no different to National Budgets or even Council Budgets, they are a balancing act between income and needs and desires.

For your own sanity I would advise you don't allow thoughts such as this to enter your conscious

[aprilia_RS250]

I would be happy at current tax rate if there was a switch from

Less on race related expenditure (e.g. grants on Maoris)
Less dependence on welfare
Less spend on useless shit like NZSO

More on
Hospitals, Education and infrastructure.


But ultimately I'd like a min tax system, like 10-20%. Just for the necessities, roads, police hospitals.

If you have kids and can't afford them don't have them.

If you can't be fucked getting an education and rather smoke weed and can't find work tough shit, fuck off to Oz and be a miner, I ain't gona pay money to support your habit.

I hate the fact I get called greedy by a dude on the doll or single mother on welfare when they're the ones after my $$$

[scott411]

at the moment we are either taking in too little, and spending to much of the taxes

problem is, if you raise the taxes, more people will fuck off to Australia where the wages are higher, the only really decent idea i have heard to earn more was the mining idea, but that got shot down pretty quick,

now the other way, is to spend less, now every time the goverment of today tries to do that they are either benefit bashing, poor hating, or reducing services,

National has done a average to poor job of keeping this in control, and Labours new idea's of giving even more money away, and reducing taxes (the under 10k threshold) is even worse,

i wish someone would come up with a better idea, but since our party system is the way it is either National or Labour will be in power next time

[James Deuce]

I would be happy at current tax rate if there was a switch from

Less on race related expenditure (e.g. grants on Maoris)
Less dependence on welfare
Less spend on useless shit like NZSO

More on
Hospitals, Education and infrastructure.


But ultimately I'd like a min tax system, like 10-20%. Just for the necessities, roads, police hospitals.

If you have kids and can't afford them don't have them.

If you can't be fucked getting an education and rather smoke weed and can't find work tough shit, fuck off to Oz and be a miner, I ain't gona pay money to support your habit.

I hate the fact I get called greedy by a dude on the doll or single mother on welfare when they're the ones after my $$$

Wheee! Answer dude answers!

Really funny stuff. You should write for The Onion.

[oneofsix]

now the other way, is to spend less, now every time the goverment of today tries to do that they are either benefit bashing, poor hating, or reducing services,


That's cause their only ideas when it comes to spending less are to benefit bash and yet they always leave out the biggest greediest bunch of beneficiaries - themselves. Loved the way they cut their travel perks and then gave themselves a back dated wage rise to cover the lose, effectively meaning they had both at the same time for a backdated period. And don't bleat on about it being the high salaries commission that gave them the pay rise, who the F appoints the higher salaries commission and pay their wages!

Don't care who, vote them out every 3 years.

[scott411]

i agree that they should have not taken a pay rise, there so called independant pay review is bullshit,

in the end tho, the cost of the 121 mp's pales in comparision to the full cost of the 10 of thousands of benifcarys, but you are right, they need to clean up there own shit as well,

couple of things i think should go, are interest free student loans, although i think the interest free should be used as a carrot in certain professions, (country doctors and teachers, nurses as an example)

and i think that the super age needs to rise, prob to 68 to 70, i think people are living much longer now, and the 65 age is to low,

most benificary's are deserving and do not work the system, but some definatly do, we need to find some way to get people off the dpb and the sickness beneift when they are able to work,

[NinjaNanna]

perhaps the best way to break welfare dependancy is to introduce a system whereby the benefit decreases over time.

Lose your job no worries we understand, and we'll help you out


First 2 months - 80% of your salary Next month - 70% of the average wage next month - 60% of the average wage next month - 50% of the average wage next month - 40% of the average wage after another 6 months (ie 12 months since losing your job) - 25%
after 2 years - 0%


note diliberate use of salary and average wage

[superman]

Less spend on useless shit like NZSO

The one good bit of culture NZ has and it's not worth it? If spending tax on NZSO isn't worth it I hope you think the same across the board, ie All Blacks etc. In which case I'd agree, but if you fund sports... you fund arts. And that's that.

[oneofsix]

couple of things i think should go, are interest free student loans, although i think the interest free should be used as a carrot in certain professions, (country doctors and teachers, nurses as an example)

and i think that the super age needs to rise, prob to 68 to 70, i think people are living much longer now, and the 65 age is to low,

most benificary's are deserving and do not work the system, but some definatly do, we need to find some way to get people off the dpb and the sickness beneift when they are able to work,

The loans are only interest free whilst they are at uni and can't repay them anyhow. Bit harsh to charge interest whilst you are still basically taking out the loan. They need to prevent the students jumping the country when qualified until the loan is repaid. Can go in hols but no working for the benefit of offshore countries until you've paid the debt to the country that supported you through uni.

Disagree on raising the retirement age. I think they have this back to front. Retire out the old and tired, bring in the young at the bottom inside of supporting them on unemployment. Currently we are flogging the older workers to pay the unemployed and not training the replacements. Should instead take the lifecycle approach of retiring the old to make room for the young and reward the retired with their benefit, at least the old use their spare time to benefit their communities instead of vandalism.

Agree with you on the last quoted paragraph.

[superman]

couple of things i think should go, are interest free student loans

And overseas we go... :rolleyes:

[scott411]

And overseas we go... :rolleyes:

where else do you get interest free student loans?

it comes down to the same problem, to much expense, not enough income, somethings need to go,

the student loan free system does not encourage people to pay them off, and it is available for far to many courses that do not lead people into work, the amount of money spent would be better put into other area's

[NinjaNanna]

And overseas we go... :rolleyes:

What you think you'll find a cheaper education as an International Student?

I'm all for legislation preventing NZ students leaving NZ or at least entering an agreement to continue repayments whilst employed overseas. Hey afterall you can't skip the country and not repay personal loans or mortgages, why should Student Loans be any different

[oneofsix]

where else do you get interest free student loans?

it comes down to the same problem, to much expense, not enough income, somethings need to go,

the student loan free system does not encourage people to pay them off, and it is available for far to many courses that do not lead people into work, the amount of money spent would be better put into other area's

don't need them in Aussie. Their wages are also higher and have been gain since we did away with union, they are still big on unions. Their economy has been doing better since then too. Wonder if there is a link.

[NinjaNanna]

don't need them in Aussie. Their wages are also higher and have been gain since we did away with union, they are still big on unions. Their economy has been doing better since then too. Wonder if there is a link.

Australia has HECS (Higher Education Contribution Scheme) which is essentially the same thing. Your HECS debt is indexed each year by the CPI.

[scott411]

don't need them in Aussie. Their wages are also higher and have been gain since we did away with union, they are still big on unions. Their economy has been doing better since then too. Wonder if there is a link.

correct aussie has a much better economy for a number of reason's, they export more than they import for one, i am not saying the unions do not have a say in it, but i think that they are only part of the chain, a long term right wing goverment might be a reason as well, also they did not deregulate as fast,

although outside of the mines i have a number of friends over there and they do not really earn more than similar jobs here,

[Ocean1]

perhaps the best way to break welfare dependancy is to introduce a system whereby the benefit decreases over time.


Pretty much how it works in most of the Scandanavian economies.


although outside of the mines i have a number of friends over there and they do not really earn more than similar jobs here,

Largely correct. If there's a difference in how they manage things it's that they support the industries that generate income. We've got a habit of supporting lost causes and penalising potentially high performance entities.

[SPman]

They should spend more on spelling and grammar lessons, so some of us could understand what the buggery you're all on about! :baby:

[scott411]

Pretty much how it works in most of the Scandanavian economies.



Largely correct. If there's a difference in how they manage things it's that they support the industries that generate income. We've got a habit of supporting lost causes and penalising potentially high performance entities.


agree with you there as well, i think they have a 4 year term goverment which ads a bit of certainty as well,

i also think there size helps, meaning economies of scales come into play as well,

[superman]

where else do you get interest free student loans?

it comes down to the same problem, to much expense, not enough income, somethings need to go,

the student loan free system does not encourage people to pay them off, and it is available for far to many courses that do not lead people into work, the amount of money spent would be better put into other area's


What you think you'll find a cheaper education as an International Student?



Even with interest free student loans the costs of university is around $6000 per year not including things such as text books/transport etc. Countries such as Switzerland/Denmark don't have interest free loans but they have much cheaper fees. Germany universities now charge 1000 euro enrolment charge per year, regardless whether the students are from EU or non-EU countries.

So $1900 NZD per year to study in a German university, or $6000 per year here? It's already a trade off for the worse, and if you add interest to that it would be even worse. Not to mention that if you tied people to staying in the country once they had the degree they'd have to spend even longer trying to pay it off on a crappy NZ wage. So instead of having people bugger off after getting degrees they'd bugger off before even getting them.

It should be much harder to get into university, so only top students who prove their effort can get in. Right now it's almost impossible to not gain uni entrance.

[scott411]

It should be much harder to get into university, so only top students who prove their effort can get in. Right now it's almost impossible to not gain uni entrance.

agree with you on this, i think the university students are not the real problem with the huge student loan bill we have, it is more the training programs. like flying schools, dive courses, and other "recreation type" activities that teach instructors, problem is with these courses is the fact that they teach more people than there ever is jobs, that is not the only example, but the problem with a lot of places is that they are a business, and they get bulk students through, with out outcomes that are benifical, i know there is reports into this at the moment as well.

[Bald Eagle]

agree with you on this, i think the university students are not the real problem with the huge student loan bill we have, it is more the training programs. like flying schools, dive courses, and other "recreation type" activities that teach instructors, problem is with these courses is the fact that they teach more people than there ever is jobs, that is not the only example, but the problem with a lot of places is that they are a business, and they get bulk students through, with out outcomes that are benifical, i know there is reports into this at the moment as well.

I wonder what the number of tertiary students per capita relationship is to overseas. Maybe we have too many universities creating "graduates" for the size of our population and economy.

Found this link (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_pub_spe_per_stu_ter_lev-spending-per-student-tertiary-level) govt expenditure per student as a % of GDP.

[superman]

agree with you on this, i think the university students are not the real problem with the huge student loan bill we have, it is more the training programs. like flying schools, dive courses, and other "recreation type" activities that teach instructors, problem is with these courses is the fact that they teach more people than there ever is jobs, that is not the only example, but the problem with a lot of places is that they are a business, and they get bulk students through, with out outcomes that are benifical, i know there is reports into this at the moment as well.

Exactly right, this is why the country could afford free university education a few decades ago. It was tough to get into uni, and if you didn't get into uni you'd become a useful tradesman. The process to become a pilot was utter dedication, helping out at airfields for hours just for a chance to go up, and if it really was something that motivated you, you'd do anything to get there. So many students nowadays (not that I have much history in my life...) just do things because they can... and then they won't really do anything useful for society. There's not many with a passionate drive for what they're doing and they just dawdle along a course doing what they're told.

[NinjaNanna]

So far not to many response in regards to what we should go without?

Here some:

Inorganic day for every household in Auckland. Hire a skip and get rid of it yourself
Funding for sports and the arts: get rid of it all together until the economy has recovered
Public libraries: close them down and have one in each centre, ffs who actual goes to them anymore.
Street Lighting: dim it or turn it off after 11pm

Personally I can't think of any that are Nationally funded because I haven't had enough to do with the system.

[avgas]

I certainly don't think the Gov Generals mansion being given a $40 million upgrade was value for money.
Be prepared to cry when you find out it was not earthquake proofed.......the hard way

[superman]

Street Lighting: dim it or turn it off after 11pm


Yuss!!! Can sneak up on unsuspecting ladies walking there dogs at night and... spark up an interesting conversation about street lighting

[mashman]

perhaps the best way to break welfare dependancy is to introduce a system whereby the benefit decreases over time.

Lose your job no worries we understand, and we'll help you out


First 2 months - 80% of your salary Next month - 70% of the average wage next month - 60% of the average wage next month - 50% of the average wage next month - 40% of the average wage after another 6 months (ie 12 months since losing your job) - 25%
after 2 years - 0%


note diliberate use of salary and average wage

So I only need to get a relatively well paid job once every 2 years and i'll earn considerably more than the dole when they sack me... I could live with that :)

[avgas]

So I only need to get a relatively well paid job once every 2 years and i'll earn considerably more than the dole when they sack me... I could live with that :)
I think you will find most currently on unemployment don't think that far ahead. hence the lack of employment.
Or prepared meals for that matter.
Or lack of schedules of what to do once out of bed.

Mind due if my employer paid me to stay at home and do nothing. I guess that is what I would do.

[mashman]

I think you will find most currently on unemployment don't think that far ahead. hence the lack of employment.
Or prepared meals for that matter.
Or lack of schedules of what to do once out of bed.

Mind due if my employer paid me to stay at home and do nothing. I guess that is what I would do.

Heh, I bet they would find a job bloody quickly if they could get a declining wage rate. Turn up for work on day 1, get sacked pretty much straight away, instant pay rise in relation to the dole... aye, they're all stupid these people on the dole...