OIA to MSAC 10 Mar 11

[rustic101]

Ok, so I’m the youngest of seven children and was consistently picked on by my siblings. The net effect of this was me growing up always fighting for the under dog and never taking no for an answer.

So, What’s this got to do with the MSAC and MSL I hear you ask?

As a motorcyclist I choose not to belong to groups like BRONZ, MAG or sadly as I’m not a chickie WIMA. There are a number of reasons for my choice and while these groups may be great for some, and I mean no disrespect to individuals within the groups, as a collective body they are and have to date been ineffective in shaping the landscape in relation to road safety.

Like so many, possibly thousands of other riders who choose not to belong and remain independents, I believe we will be ignored by the newly established MSAC. Even though I want to remain an independent I like so many others want a voice or at least the ability to contribute as independents.

So like the youngest child I intend to stand up against the siblings and fight using tactics and a strategy that will a level the playing field. Whilst I may not have the strength in numbers I’ll ensure that I as an independent I’ll hold the MSAC to account.

In reality the MSL may never go away no mater who Governs, however if I can lessen the impact I will try and I would encourage other independents and the key groups to keep your foot firmly planted across their throats. This is about us, about what we enjoy, about our rights not entitlements, about our safety – take control and stand up.

No I don’t have a chip on my shoulder –honest, I don’t!!!. Just a pissed off and disappointed rider.

Phase one of my strategy is to lodge an OIA which I have attached. This was handed to ACC this morning. I will continue to keep this thread live with updates as I get them.

Remember – No means No.

[Hitcher]

I've read your so-called Official Information Act request and am completely none-the-wiser about what it is you want to know or what your end-game is.

One thing that is certain is that in less than one month, you will receive a letter that outlines a whole bunch of stuff that you could have downloaded yourself off the Internet.

[rustic101]

I've read your so-called Official Information Act request and am completely none-the-wiser about what it is you want to know or what your end-game is.

One thing that is certain is that in less than one month, you will receive a letter that outlines a whole bunch of stuff that you could have downloaded yourself off the Internet.

Great stuff . Can you please forward me their forecast expenditure I seem to be struggling to locate it on the net? I'd love to know what they are being paid, how much they have allocated for travel, research etc?

But hey I may have missed that in my google search.

I have a plan be sure of that.

[Hitcher]

It's only a recently established organisation. Some of the data you seek may not yet have been determined.

If you want to be cute and play a game that involves waiting a month between your questions and answers from a faceless bureaucrat, then by all means go for it. Myself, I'd rather watch the lawn grow, preferring to ask my hard questions to Gareth Morgan right from the beginning.

[Katman]

Even though I want to remain an independent I like so many others want a voice or at least the ability to contribute as independents.


Perhaps you need to seriously reassess where that voice needs to be directed.

[Smifffy]

I've read your so-called Official Information Act request and am completely none-the-wiser about what it is you want to know or what your end-game is.

One thing that is certain is that in less than one month, you will receive a letter that outlines a whole bunch of stuff that you could have downloaded yourself off the Internet.

Do you care to share the link for that download?

[Hitcher]

Do you care to share the link for that download?

If people used the right acronyms, they may have more luck Googling things. It's the MSLAC, rather than whatever the OP thinks it is. http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/gareth-morgan-head-motorcycle-safety-group-nn-84060

[rustic101]

That's part of the problem... Information provided on here and other sites quite clearly states MSAC.

Transparency is a wonderful thing and as I refer in my OIA information to date is either generic or a mix of half 'well I heard'.

[Katman]

If people used the right acronyms, they may have more luck Googling things. It's the MSLAC, rather than whatever the OP thinks it is. http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/gareth-morgan-head-motorcycle-safety-group-nn-84060

NBR is hardly the equivilent of the Official Information Act.

[Hitcher]

Look, the thing's only been going a couple of months and met probably once, twice tops. Gareth Morgan is a decent straight-up-and-down bloke who is no slug when it comes to communicating. When they make decisions, I'm sure that they will share them. They may well even engage in a bit of consultation. Not everybody's going to agree with what they decide. Appointed directors will probably get reimbursed for meeting costs, but it's a Government agency, so they won't get rich participating.

And even the BDOTGNZA struggle with acronyms.

[Hitcher]

NBR is hardly the equivilent of the Official Information Act.

All questions asked by reporters are technically subject to the provisions of the Official Information Act.

[rustic101]

This is not personal - I'm not knocking any one of the members.

The excuse of its only been a couple of months is horses arse to be honest. The back bone of the business model and everything else would have been laid out for some time. Dr Morgan was appoint as Chair for a reason, his business acumen part of that is a communication plan and strategy.

At a minimum there should be communications published stating fact and should not have me rely on read post from MLSAC member's or their friends on here. i.e

Currently the committe is at xy and z point.

Not hard really is it?

[riffer]

Yeah, well I had a read of it too. I'm about as clear on it as Hitcher. Good luck with your OIA request.

You may be waiting a while to get the results of it though.

[Smifffy]

If people used the right acronyms, they may have more luck Googling things. It's the MSLAC, rather than whatever the OP thinks it is. http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/gareth-morgan-head-motorcycle-safety-group-nn-84060

http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=Motorcycle+Safety+Levy+Advisory+Council&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Only returns links to the same 21 Jan press release that we have all already seen. The allusion in your previous post was that there was information that could readily be downloaded.

Apparently we are to believe that there have been additions made to the council since that press release was made, and that roles within the council have been assigned.

Six weeks since the initial fanfare trumpeted Nick Smith's glory to the world and naught but rumour and innuendo since.

It may be too much to expect that a new government adjunct would use the e-government portal, that was set up at the expense of the tax payer, to provide such documentation as meeting minutes and agenda, however I feel that the communications working group could be doing a little more.

[rustic101]

Yeah, well I had a read of it too. I'm about as clear on it as Hitcher. Good luck with your OIA request.

You may be waiting a while to get the results of it though.

I guess you see or comprehend what you want to see or comprehend - no surprise there ;)

That aside its very clear what I have requested. Perhaps the 2nd paragraph unnerved you, who knows?

Its all part of a bigger plan

[riffer]

I guess you see or comprehend what you want to see or comprehend - no surprise there ;)

That aside its very clear what I have requested. Perhaps the 2nd paragraph unnerved you, who knows?

Its all part of a bigger plan

No it wasn't that. I guess it was the bit where you claimed that the MSAC only represented a few specific groups, then you requested information on behalf of all other disaffected individuals. Without, I might add, once demonstrating any means by which you would disseminate this information to all these other people.

What exactly do you intend to do with this information other than tie up the MSAC's time, and incur expense? Are you happy for the cost of the OIA request to be offset against the Motorcycle Safety Levy? Because I'm not.

Perhaps you missed the bit where the MSAC was created so that members of the motorcycling community were handpicked by the minister, rather than representatives of organisations were chosen to help their organisations.

Because it sounds to me like you are claiming that there is deliberate bias in the committee.

And this is all starting to sound like the same bollocks that's happened in other threads.

So I'm leaving this thread now.

[StoneY]

First off this is professional not personal - I'm not knocking any one of the members, believe me if I wanted to I could open up a whole can of dirt.



What can of dirt??

Are you insinuating you have 'dirt' on the members? And you are willing to make use of it?
If so my friend, thats an abuse of your professional position and I for one know damn well who you are and what you do

Tread very carefully when making these insinuations.... you may burn your own backside matey - professional ..... not the way your post reads dude it reads like a blackmail threat and its pathetic

You opnely support National policies in most your posts, yet this issue was CAUSED by National - Nats own ACC minister created this situation, I for one have participated honestly and with US in mind with every action or step I take....

Pull ya fuckin head in for once

[rustic101]

What can of dirt??

Are you insinuating you have 'dirt' on the members? And you are willing to make use of it?
If so my friend, thats an abuse of your professional position and I for one know damn well who you are and what you do

Tread very carefully when making these insinuations.... you may burn your own backside matey - professional ..... not the way your post reads dude it reads like a blackmail threat and its pathetic

You opnely support National policies in most your posts, yet this issue was CAUSED by National - Nats own ACC minister created this situation, I for one have participated honestly and with US in mind with every action or step I take....

Pull ya fuckin head in for once

Check your ego, sit back and take a breath.

No threats were made!!! What was stated to riffter was that my endeavours were professional, not personal and not a personal attack on any individual - fact. If you seriously think I would use information other than 'open source', then you need to think again....Believe me I'm not a fool.

My Political or Professional allegiance have nothing to do with my affairs or beliefs around the MSAC or the MSL. While I openly support National I am not a single issue nutter and do not always agree with everything they do.

In New Zealand the last time I checked we lived in a Democracy where individuals could challenge an area they took issue with. I will continue to exercise my democratic right.

Brent, I am not expecting you to accept anything I do, in fact quite frankly , I don't care. If you do not like what I have said don't read, let alone reply.

Ken

[rustic101]

No it wasn't that. I guess it was the bit where you claimed that the MSAC only represented a few specific groups, then you requested information on behalf of all other disaffected individuals. Without, I might add, once demonstrating any means by which you would disseminate this information to all these other people.

What exactly do you intend to do with this information other than tie up the MSAC's time, and incur expense? Are you happy for the cost of the OIA request to be offset against the Motorcycle Safety Levy? Because I'm not.

Perhaps you missed the bit where the MSAC was created so that members of the motorcycling community were handpicked by the minister, rather than representatives of organisations were chosen to help their organisations.

Because it sounds to me like you are claiming that there is deliberate bias in the committee.

And this is all starting to sound like the same bollocks that's happened in other threads.

So I'm leaving this thread now.

Its funny how people will twist things. If you want to discredit me go right ahead.
I have made no claims what so ever.
What I did was make a request. In short I exercised my democratic right.
Yes - I'm very happy to ensure, no demand that there is accountability and transparency around a fund that I and others contribute too.
Little or no information available other than innuendos and rumour - No we are not being paid, yes we are being paid and so much much more.
I only deal with facts! What I have requested are facts.
Rest assured I have a plan and any information I receive will be used in good faith and not wasted.

I'll tell you what I told Brent - If you do not like what I am writing then do not read or reply.

[Katman]

First off this is professional not personal - I'm not knocking any one of the members, believe me if I wanted to I could open up a whole can of dirt.




No threats were made!!!

Certainly came across as a poorly veiled threat to me.

Perhaps you should reassess your professionalism as well as your direction.

[ClutchITUP]

I know for a fact!
All the members of the board played soggy biscuit ....................and Ken lost

[rustic101]

Certainly came across as a poorly veiled threat to me.

Perhaps you should reassess your professionalism as well as your direction.

Poorly worded, perhaps?
A threat - no!

There is enough open source information on these boards that does not paint a positive picture of many people.

I can only state again that my efforts are not personal, nor is my effort directed at any individual, but rather the MSAC and MSL.

[Str8 Jacket]

Personally, I would prefer the group to be called 'McSACS', maybe I will write a letter.....

Either way, someone seems to have their sacks in a twist...!

[rustic101]

lol very funny.