Dirty rivers dead dogs and dairy farmers.

[98tls]

Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of some hard evidence re dairy farmers and the state of the rivers,this summer there has been 3 dogs die locally after swimming in local rivers and after taking our dogs for a dip yesterday my mates Collie is in a bad way.Myself and many others constantly blame the dairy farmers but if i am honest i have nothing to back that up with and was after some factual stuff,there must be some surely.Round here dairy farmings pretty intensive so its easy to blame them but is it possibly linked to climate change blah blah?.Any way just thought someone may have a link to some articles etc.

[oneofsix]

Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of some hard evidence re dairy farmers and the state of the rivers,this summer there has been 3 dogs die locally after swimming in local rivers and after taking our dogs for a dip yesterday my mates Collie is in a bad way.Myself and many others constantly blame the dairy farmers but if i am honest i have nothing to back that up with and was after some factual stuff,there must be some surely.Round here dairy farmings pretty intensive so its easy to blame them but is it possibly linked to climate change blah blah?.Any way just thought someone may have a link to some articles etc.

Why not take a sample of the water and see if you can get it tested by the vet or council. There have been river blooms that are poisoning dogs.

[98tls]

Why not take a sample of the water and see if you can get it tested by the vet or council. There have been river blooms that are poisoning dogs.

Yea not a bad idea though it has been raining heavily all night here so no doubt given the river in question a clean out.

[sinfull]

Think it a sign of the times 98, have noticed over the last couple of years, my girl gettin a tad sad on it after lettin her do what she enjoys (swim and drink from our local stream) but hard to pin point it down, the ocean runs green with shit these days after it rains for a while (shallow ground water comes out not far offshore) which i blame on consents to spray efluent on all the paddocks, so what other sprays are being carried into the ground water ! But then they also do alot of poison drops along our forsure !

So ummm i just tell her
Don't swim
Don't bark
Don't shit in public
Don't bite burglars
Don't let councill see ya
Don't stray 2 feet from my side

So far the 2 feet from my side works

[Deano]

A number of rivers suffer from toxic algae nowadays. High temps, low water flows and a lot of effluent run off (nutrients) all contribute to the flourishing of the algae.

Also likely that there are high bacterial counts if a lot of farm effluent run off. There are a number of rules regarding distances of stock to water ways. Have you spoken to your regional council about it ? They may be quite interested.

[98tls]

Think it a sign of the times 98, have noticed over the last couple of years, my girl gettin a tad sad on it after lettin her do what she enjoys (swim and drink from our local stream) but hard to pin point it down, the ocean runs green with shit these days after it rains for a while (shallow ground water comes out not far offshore) which i blame on consents to spray efluent on all the paddocks, so what other sprays are being carried into the ground water ! But then they also do alot of poison drops along our forsure !

So ummm i just tell her
Don't swim
Don't bark
Don't shit in public
Don't bite burglars
Don't let councill see ya
Don't stray 2 feet from my side

So far the 2 feet from my side works

About it S,as you say hard to pin down,my own dog was swimming with my mates but hes fine,showing no signs of being crook at all.Guess he was just lucky enough to not swallow whatever is causing them harm.Cant believe how quick whatever it is gets to them.Mates dog is currently at the vets with tubes and needles coming out of him and well sad.Shame eh that its come to this from just going for a swim in a New Zealand river.:nono:

[98tls]

A number of rivers suffer from toxic algae nowadays. High temps, low water flows and a lot of effluent run off (nutrients) all contribute to the flourishing of the algae.

Also likely that there are high bacterial counts if a lot of farm effluent run off. There are a number of rules regarding distances of stock to water ways. Have you spoken to your regional council about it ? They may be quite interested.

No mate i havent though ive a day off so when in town might call in to the Council office and mention it to them.Interesting about the "distance to waterways" thing,where we take the dogs and swim ourselves is a great spot called Gemmels crossing and theres dairy farms all along the banks of the river,you only have to climb out of the river walk up the bank 10 yards and you run into fences,annoyingly whilst walking long sections of one side of the bank you can see where they are sucking water directly out of the river for there irragation which obviously doesnt help levels in the dry season.May wait a day or 2 after the rain stops and go take a sample directly from the biggest swimming hole,where would i go to get it tested?

[oneofsix]

About it S,as you say hard to pin down,my own dog was swimming with my mates but hes fine,showing no signs of being crook at all.Guess he was just lucky enough to not swallow whatever is causing them harm.Cant believe how quick whatever it is gets to them.Mates dog is currently at the vets with tubes and needles coming out of him and well sad.Shame eh that its come to this from just going for a swim in a New Zealand river.:nono:

Be nice to think they could do blood tests on the sick dog and track it, but the vet is not a public service so would probably require your mate, or ideally the regional council, to pay. The Regional Council should take an interest and pay for the tests IMHO. That might tell the if the river is dangerous but not necessarily what made it so.

[98tls]

Be nice to think they could do blood tests on the sick dog and track it, but the vet is not a public service so would probably require your mate, or ideally the regional council, to pay. The Regional Council should take an interest and pay for the tests IMHO. That might tell the if the river is dangerous but not necessarily what made it so.

Cheers but i doubt i will get anything helpful from our council,they would rather waste there time and our money on such ridiculous things as our 8 million dollar Opera house:tugger:then expect us to agree to 6% rate rise (we are already in the top 5 highest ratepayers in the country) to fund cleaner drinking water.:Oi:Politicians and Councillors:sleep:Anyways i am getting off track,will speak to the vet also and see what we can come up with.

[Paul in NZ]

Yes there is a lot of science around this and I have a mate that basically makes his living from it BUT there is also BIG $$ involved. That means that there is a lot of anti science as well.

I would not swim in a river running through intensive dairy farming areas. Nor do I fish around the mouths of such rivers either

[scissorhands]

I think most major rivers have a pollution classification index, after some testing.

Might be a good idea to source that, avoid high risk stretches, and look for places upstream of farming, near the foot of the hills.

Botulism, is a real concern with the increased summer water temperatures. At one stage a few years back, 20 plus ducks per day, were dying at Western Springs pond.

I stuck a firecracker up the arse of Auckland City Council due to their incompetence in managing that waterway. If they were a private entity they would have been in court, pursued by either government or local body responsible for animal welfare.:facepalm:

[98tls]

Yes there is a lot of science around this and I have a mate that basically makes his living from it BUT there is also BIG $$ involved. That means that there is a lot of anti science as well.

I would not swim in a river running through intensive dairy farming areas. Nor do I fish around the mouths of such rivers either

Around here (Waitaki) every river runs through intensive dairy farming sadly.Bloody sad day when a very nice swimming area 10 minutes drive from town and used by many in the town cant be used eh.As you say theres big $ involved so a local council wouldnt want to offend those making said $,if in fact its them causing the crap going on with the river.

[98tls]

I think most major rivers have a pollution classification index, after some testing.

Might be a good idea to source that, avoid high risk stretches, and look for places upstream of farming, near the foot of the hills.

Botulism, is a real concern with the increased summer water temperatures. At one stage a few years back, 20 plus ducks per day, were dying at Western Springs pond.

I stuck a firecracker up the arse of Auckland City Council due to their incompetence in managing that waterway. If they were a private entity they would have been in court, pursued by either government or local body responsible for animal welfare.:facepalm:

Indeed,"Western Springs" pond mate,is that a place that the Public would go to to swim etc,sorry i am at the other end of the country and dont know the area.

[oneofsix]

Indeed,"Western Springs" pond mate,is that a place that the Public would go to to swim etc,sorry i am at the other end of the country and dont know the area.

Western Springs, isn't that where they have them noisy smelly dirty racing car type things what the neighbours don't like? No wonder they were killing ducks. :rolleyes:

[mashman]

Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of some hard evidence re dairy farmers and the state of the rivers,this summer there has been 3 dogs die locally after swimming in local rivers and after taking our dogs for a dip yesterday my mates Collie is in a bad way.Myself and many others constantly blame the dairy farmers but if i am honest i have nothing to back that up with and was after some factual stuff,there must be some surely.Round here dairy farmings pretty intensive so its easy to blame them but is it possibly linked to climate change blah blah?.Any way just thought someone may have a link to some articles etc.

Oi, Erin Brockovich :shifty: (couldn't resist)... this may be a little left field, but wouldn't a sewerage plant have the ability to test water (do you have a local one?)? Failing that they may be able to point you in the right direction. Or ask the council to test the water and mention that you have sent the water off privately to get tested (wether you do or don't is another matter :shifty:)

Hope yer mates dog gets recovers quickly :niceone:

[mashman]

found this too (http://ecan.govt.nz/services/water-testing/Pages/costs.aspx)... might help

[scissorhands]

Western Springs has a huge duck pond, only 100meters from the race track.

Managed by auckland city parks, no real pressure was put on them for the state of the waterway. Carcases of dead ducks were seen floating for over a week, even though they were supposed to retrieve daily by dingy.

The rotting bodies increases the levels of botulism. I got on the cover of our local rag, and they ran a story highlighting the botulism, but the media exposure really didnt put Auckland City Council in the spotlight, but blamed warmer temperatures rather than poor management.....

The problem is a shallow pond heating up in late summer, leaf drop in the pond in autumn causing vegetation rotting botulism, plus rotting duck, carp and eel botulism, and low rainfall.

[98tls]

Western Springs has a huge duck pond, only 100meters from the race track.

Managed by auckland city parks, no real pressure was put on them for the state of the waterway. Carcases of dead ducks were seen floating for over a week, even though they were supposed to retrieve daily by dingy.

The rotting bodies increases the levels of botulism. I got on the cover of our local rag, and they ran a story highlighting the botulism, but the media exposure really didnt put Auckland City Council in the spotlight, but blamed warmer temperatures rather than poor management.....

In other words the powers that be really just dont care eh,sad.

[98tls]

found this too (http://ecan.govt.nz/services/water-testing/Pages/costs.aspx)... might help

Cheers mate,had a quick flick through that,will delve deeper into it later.Cant see the Council being helpful re testing but theres nothing stopping us doing it it,be intersting to see the results though i doubt THEY will be interested no matter what the tests show,if nothing else we may be able to use the tests to at least get them to put up some signs warning of the danger to dogs swimming there.Surely if its killing dogs it cant be any good for people.

[Gone Burger]

It is a real shame with our local rivers. The Hutt river causes problems now every summer with toxic algae there every season without fail. This means you wait all winter to be able to take the dogs to the river for some decent fun and exercise, and come the good weather, it's out of bounds right til the end of summer. I was lucky, have been living next to the Akatarawa River for 3 years, and the problem was never up that far. The dogs basically lived in the river all summer and the swimming was so good for my rescue dogs bad joints. I have moved now, and once again, limitations on letting them back in the water locally.

I guess we are now just coming to accept thats how it is. Although it wasn't many years ago that this problem wasn't as frequent. Mmmm who knows. It is hard to not question what we can do about it.

[98tls]

It is a real shame with our local rivers. The Hutt river causes problems now every summer with toxic algie there every season without fail. This means you wait all winter to be able to take the dogs to the river for some decent fun and exericise, and come the good weather, it's out of bounds right til the end of summer. I was lucky, have been living next to the Akatarawa River for 3 years, and the problem was never up that far. The dogs basically lived in the river all summer and the swimming was so good for my rescue dogs bad joints. I have moved now, and once again, limitations on letting them back in the water locally.

I guess we are now just coming to accept thats how it is. Although it wasn't many years ago that this problem wasn't as frequent. Mmmm who knows. It is hard to not question what we can do about it.

Hear what your saying,if indeed the dairy farms are the main cause (not saying they are) then it seems bloody shameful really,sure many have there own wells so they cant be blamed for water levels though in the river affecting me theres plenty sucking water out of it,Ironic that they would prosper from the river whilst leaving it unuseable for the public,one of the great things about living where i do is the rivers and i spend much of my free time around them,another reason i have a dog i guess as they to love there time there.

[Deano]

No mate i havent though ive a day off so when in town might call in to the Council office and mention it to them.Interesting about the "distance to waterways" thing,where we take the dogs and swim ourselves is a great spot called Gemmels crossing and theres dairy farms all along the banks of the river,you only have to climb out of the river walk up the bank 10 yards and you run into fences,annoyingly whilst walking long sections of one side of the bank you can see where they are sucking water directly out of the river for there irragation which obviously doesnt help levels in the dry season.May wait a day or 2 after the rain stops and go take a sample directly from the biggest swimming hole,where would i go to get it tested?

I believe that it may be 20m distance to any waterway - but not 100% sure. It allows faecal matter to percolate through the soil (except in real heavy downpours where there may be run off), filtering/killing off many bacteria before hitting the waterway.

Taking of water generally requires consent too.

Talk to the pollution people at your Regional Council (not Local Authority). If any testing is done, the sampling needs to be carried out by suitably qualified people.

[george formby]

We recently had um heap big rain & flooding. The contour of the river changed dramatically & huge amounts of silt were washed out. Within 2 days the river was virtually choked with algae / weed. You could almost see the crap growing. My dog is in their most days but touch wood is fine. For most of the rivers length their is a buffer of trees & bush separating it from the cow paddocks but it is still not clear after 3 weeks. Tis a worry.

Looking down at some, er, sections..

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz205/harveykrumpet/The%20Great%20Flood%20of%202011/DSC04339.jpg

the river is normally below the gums in the background,
like this..

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz205/harveykrumpet/The%20Great%20Flood%20of%202011/DSC04360.jpg

the Bay afterwards.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz205/harveykrumpet/The%20Great%20Flood%20of%202011/DSC04351.jpg

[JMemonic]

There have been a few warnings around some of the popular day trip and camping spots around home over the last few years, Coes Ford is an example there were huge blue/green algal blooms when I last went out there, the water level was down and it stunk. I recall some of the warnings being dog specific.

Sure dairy is a huge export winner but one would think the farmers themselves would want to be responsible for their environment, polluted run off is going to cost in the future surely.

[oneofsix]

There have been a few warnings around some of the popular day trip and camping spots around home over the last few years, Coes Ford is an example there were huge blue/green algal blooms when I last went out there, the water level was down and it stunk. I recall some of the warnings being dog specific.

Sure dairy is a huge export winner but one would think the farmers themselves would want to be responsible for their environment, polluted run off is going to cost in the future surely.

Cost to whom?

[george formby]

The biggest problem we have with flooding is everybodys septic tanks being flushed down the river or drains into the Bay.

[JMemonic]

Cost to whom?

Possibly those who pay the rates that allow the regional councils to clean or otherwise rectify the problems, to those of us who are no longer able to draw water for drinking without expensive filtration and purification processes.

In some countries it is cheaper to purchase Coke-Cola than to pay for the water out of the tap due to pollution of the source, sure the maybe what we call third world and have rampant corruption but they are supposed to be civilised westernised nations.

[oneofsix]

Possibly those who pay the rates that allow the regional councils to clean or otherwise rectify the problems, to those of us who are no longer able to draw water for drinking without expensive filtration and purification processes.

In some countries it is cheaper to purchase Coke-Cola than to pay for the water out of the tap due to pollution of the source, sure the maybe what we call third world and have rampant corruption but they are supposed to be civilised westernised nations.

good point. I was thinking central govt via farm subsidy but local govt is just as good if not better. Either way not the people making money polluting the rivers.

[Swoop]

A mate will not fish on the Waimakariri due to pollution, sadly. Older chap who loves his outdoors.


Indeed,"Western Springs" pond mate,is that a place that the Public would go to to swim etc,sorry i am at the other end of the country and dont know the area.
It used to be the main fresh water source for Auckland City, many years back. An underground spring of immense capacity.

[pete376403]

It is a real shame with our local rivers. The Hutt river causes problems now every summer with toxic algae there every season without fail. This means you wait all winter to be able to take the dogs to the river for some decent fun and exercise, and come the good weather, it's out of bounds right til the end of summer. I was lucky, have been living next to the Akatarawa River for 3 years, and the problem was never up that far. The dogs basically lived in the river all summer and the swimming was so good for my rescue dogs bad joints. I have moved now, and once again, limitations on letting them back in the water locally.

I guess we are now just coming to accept thats how it is. Although it wasn't many years ago that this problem wasn't as frequent. Mmmm who knows. It is hard to not question what we can do about it.

There's not that many dairy farms backing on to the Hutt river that I can think of.
However there are a number of lifestyle blocks which probably use septic tanks for waste disposal rather than the piped sewer system.

[Deano]

There's not that many dairy farms backing on to the Hutt river that I can think of.
However there are a number of lifestyle blocks which probably use septic tanks for waste disposal rather than the piped sewer system.

Whiteman's and Mangaroa Valley - Akatarawa Valley.

Maybe not extensive dairy farming, but fdefinitely some degree of farming and potential run off.

Greater Wellington apparently did a survey of Mangaroa Valley in particular when toxic algae became first became a recognised issue. I don't believe they found a significant degree of non compliance.....I'm not sure how hard they went to the letter of the law though.

I think pollution control is quite a culture shock for a lot of NZ farmers to get their heads around. "But I've been doing it this way for years !!"

[Gone Burger]

Whiteman's and Mangaroa Valley - Akatarawa Valley.

Maybe not extensive dairy farming, but fdefinitely some degree of farming and potential run off.

Greater Wellington apparently did a survey of Mangaroa Valley in particular when toxic algae became first became a recognised issue. I don't believe they found a significant degree of non compliance.....I'm not sure how hard they went to the letter of the law though.

I think pollution control is quite a culture shock for a lot of NZ farmers to get their heads around. "But I've been doing it this way for years !!"

Agreed - I lived up towards to summit of the Akatarawas and was above most of the farms. Water there was never an issue, and seemed very clean. I now live in Whitemans valley and the rivers through Mangaroa and whitemans are not in a brilliant state at the moment. My dogs can't really swim there either. I am longing for the Akatarawa River again that I never did take for granted. I do not know enough about it to comment on whether dairy farms have anything to do with this, but the Algae there is still a problem out my way now, and the further south you go down the river, the bigger the problem seems to be. (through to Petone). It is seasonal though of course. I should really do some more research and learn more about it as it is an issue that tends to frustrate me with my fur babies. A friend of mine lost her dog last year because of being at the river, I hope I never have to go through that myself.

[rainman]

Wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of some hard evidence re dairy farmers and the state of the rivers...

Get hold of Russell Norman from the Greens, he's been a one-man campaign against this stuff for ages and is bound to have lots of facts, figures and contacts.


I guess we are now just coming to accept thats how it is. Although it wasn't many years ago that this problem wasn't as frequent. Mmmm who knows. It is hard to not question what we can do about it.

What to do is easy. How to do it, well, that's a different matter.


Sure dairy is a huge export winner but one would think the farmers themselves would want to be responsible for their environment, polluted run off is going to cost in the future surely.

I have a great deal of sympathy for he farmers (believe it or not) but run off probably won't cost THEM in the future. (Besides, they aren't currently making enough to pay the full cost). Since when do we price in the externalities associated with our activities? We don't, and frankly I can't see we ever will.

Fixing this requires major economic overhaul that most barely understand, let alone would support. Fixing it properly (reducing stocking levels, going organic, etc) would instantly lose our edge in global dairy. And you think the price of milk is bad now? There would have to be a major knock on effect on the wage share of overall wealth, or we would have a large increase in hardship that would ripple through the entire economy.
Far easier to ignore reality and keep on trucking towards collapse.

Crapping in our own nest is but one price of globalisation, which is the ultimate race to the bottom, in service of the very "top". Truly, as a species, we have gone mad.

[george formby]

Crapping in our own nest is but one price of globalisation, which is the ultimate race to the bottom, in service of the very "top".

Sounds like another way of saying the wealthy get the profits while the poor pay the costs.

I have noticed a few things on the box which have shown dairy farmers restoring bush & trees along water courses on their land, to act as filters to pasture run off, prevent cattle entering & fouling streams & minimising erosion. Perhaps legislation which makes this mandatory for farmers / land owners would make this a relatively cheap fix. Plant more trees!

[rainman]

Sounds like another way of saying the wealthy get the profits while the poor pay the costs.

You're on to it.


I have noticed a few things on the box which have shown dairy farmers restoring bush & trees along water courses on their land, to act as filters to pasture run off, prevent cattle entering & fouling streams & minimising erosion. Perhaps legislation which makes this mandatory for farmers / land owners would make this a relatively cheap fix. Plant more trees!

More Trees = Always good advice - however I suspect the problem is less from cows crapping in or near streams and more from excess nutrient runoff from fertilisers. Think of the GOM dead zone (http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/), that can't just be cow crap. Trees can help soak up fertiliser but you'd need a ferking forest along each side of the river to make a real difference.

And there would not be many farmers who aren't using as much input as possible to maximise yield and not a smidgen more - increased fertiliser after the optimum point increases costs and drops yields - so cutting fertiliser use will cut yields, which will drive farmers to the wall, given present tight conditions for many farming operations. So it ain't gonna happen, unless we make huge changes to the way we structure and operate our economy.

[98tls]

You're on to it.



More Trees = Always good advice - however I suspect the problem is less from cows crapping in or near streams and more from excess nutrient runoff from fertilisers. Think of the GOM dead zone (http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/), that can't just be cow crap. Trees can help soak up fertiliser but you'd need a ferking forest along each side of the river to make a real difference.

And there would not be many farmers who aren't using as much input as possible to maximise yield and not a smidgen more - increased fertiliser after the optimum point increases costs and drops yields - so cutting fertiliser use will cut yields, which will drive farmers to the wall, given present tight conditions for many farming operations. So it ain't gonna happen, unless we make huge changes to the way we structure and operate our economy.

Simply put as you say,it aint gonna happen,went to the council offices this afternoon and the bloke i wanted to talk to was away so will try again next week.Sounds like the best i can hope for is to get them to at least put up signs warning people.Bloody shame,more and more it seems the most basic of pleasures and reasons i love this country are put off limits for one reason or another.Shouldnt really be surprised i guess.

[Deano]

Simply put as you say,it aint gonna happen,went to the council offices this afternoon and the bloke i wanted to talk to was away so will try again next week.Sounds like the best i can hope for is to get them to at least put up signs warning people.Bloody shame,more and more it seems the most basic of pleasures and reasons i love this country are put off limits for one reason or another.Shouldnt really be surprised i guess.

Was it the Regional Council Pollution Dept ? If you lay a complaint I believe that they are obliged to investigate. If not, there are various options available - MP, Ombudsmen Office. They should at least justify their actions or inactions - they are public servants !!

[mashman]

More Trees = Always good advice - however I suspect the problem is less from cows crapping in or near streams and more from excess nutrient runoff from fertilisers. Think of the GOM dead zone (http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/topics/deadzone/), that can't just be cow crap. Trees can help soak up fertiliser but you'd need a ferking forest along each side of the river to make a real difference.

And there would not be many farmers who aren't using as much input as possible to maximise yield and not a smidgen more - increased fertiliser after the optimum point increases costs and drops yields - so cutting fertiliser use will cut yields, which will drive farmers to the wall, given present tight conditions for many farming operations. So it ain't gonna happen, unless we make huge changes to the way we structure and operate our economy.

bang on. I agree on the restructure of the economy to provide sustainability and stop "over" farming... but who's willing to sacrifice short term gain for sustainability? Private enterprise maybe, although you'll need to get approval from that faceless twat on a golf course somewhere in the bahamas, errrrrrm, probably not... perhaps the okey cokey govt, you've got yer 3 years in, yer 3 years out, in out in out, oo be doo be doo, who the feck am I kidding... Or option C :shifty: MYYYYYYYYYYYYY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY :killingme (not just my way, but ya know what i mean, more beer nurse :))

[hayd3n]

i have a good friend who works at the dcc treatment station who could run a test for ya :P

[george formby]

Clean, green New Zealand. :rolleyes:

The only thing this wee nation has is it's land & water. Funnily enough our much discussed friend Hone Harawira was bang on when he said to his party (IIRC) "we are nothing without water" I cannot remember the context but degradation from farming rings a bell.

[98tls]

i have a good friend who works at the dcc treatment station who could run a test for ya :P

Might just take you up on that H,wonder if i could take a few samples and courier them down to you.

[Deano]

Funnily enough our much discussed friend Hone Harawira was bang on when he said to his party (IIRC) "we are nothing without water"

True - there would be no beer without water.

[Skyryder]

This may be of interest. I have not read this but as a fisherman there is no doubt in my mind that the 'Canterbury' rivers have been in a state of decline for many years.

The cause is river abstraction (irrigation) and polution (dairy).


http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/freshwater/tools/rec Some links do not work. A better link.

http://www.niwa.co.nz/news-and-publications/publications/all/wa/vol.-18-no.1-july-2010/rivers

Skyryder

[Deano]

Might just take you up on that H,wonder if i could take a few samples and courier them down to you.

If it is indeed toxic algae, you may not actually detect it by sampling the water. Its the ingestion of algae itself that is the main issue (dogs love eating smelly, slimey shit eh).

A test might be a useful indicator if carried out appropriately, but it won't be official will it ? No offence but treatment station water tests use quite different protocols.

I still recommend laying a complaint with the Regional Council in the first instance.

Has the Vet given you any indication of cause ? Any blackish slimy discharge from your dogs mouth ? (Common with algae ingestion )

[98tls]

This may be of interest. I have not read this but as a fisherman there is no doubt in my mind that the 'Canterbury' rivers have been in a state of decline for many years.

The cause is river abstraction (irrigation) and polution (dairy).


http://www.niwa.co.nz/our-science/freshwater/tools/rec

Skyryder

Cheers mate and yes i hadnt even thought of irrigation.

[ynot slow]

Try the council or associated council(regional type),usually if a cockie has spillage they'll be on to it.My dad had a small(1000ltrs colostrum)lol leak from his tanks a year or so ago,the stream went cloudy and he was given a fine for unlawfull discharge,although the council rep did say it was accidental,the tap was ok but pipe had ruptured due to being crashed into by a power company driver,he also managed to put dent in their shed from hiab,and tried to say he didn't do it.

[Hitcher]

When in doubt, ring the environment division of your local regional council. Testing water quality and responding to the concerns of the public is part of what they have a statutory responsibility for. Identifying point sources of pollution can be hard to do for all manner of reasons. But I am sure that your local regional council would be happy to help.

[scracha]

Wot Hitcher said. Don't bother with local council...they're in cahoots with the local farmers. Ring up environmental council (separate entity).

As for testing water...most "rural" supply stores (ones that supply pumps, floats, that sort of gear) can give you a container and send the sample away for you. Doesn't cost much as there are lots of lifestylers who get their (runoff) water tanks tested annually.

I won't let me dog in the local river for a couple of days after heavy rain.

Dairy farmers PLANTING trees? Surely someone is joking. Where possible, dairy farmers rip down hedges and cut down trees to get every last square meter of grass. Obviously this isn't sustainable land management but the current economics of farming rewards destructive farm practises.

[JMemonic]

Dairy farmers PLANTING trees? Surely someone is joking. Where possible, dairy farmers rip down hedges and cut down trees to get every last square meter of grass. Obviously this isn't sustainable land management but the current economics of farming rewards destructive farm practises.

I was wondering about this one, my declining memory recalls being told at secondary school that a lot of the seemingly random planting around Canterbury was actually a scientific method of wind erosion reduction, and to break up the strength of the Norwesters upon the region, I an wondering if we are going to start seeing some of the issues we had in the 70's and early 80's.

[Hitcher]

I an wondering if we are going to start seeing some of the issues we had in the 70's and early 80's.

And what issues are those?

[hayd3n]

Might just take you up on that H,wonder if i could take a few samples and courier them down to you.

ur in oamaru?
my m8 hapens to be in oamaru quite frequently

[shrub]

Dairying has a huge impact on water supplies and is destroying what will one day be an extremely valuable resource, but it's also extremely profitable so it isn't going to change for a long tme.

Sorry mate, clean rivers are like HQ Kingswoods - used to be everywhere, now bloody rare.

[JMemonic]

And what issues are those?

Hmm thought that would have been a little obvious from my post, soil erosion but here goes a larger explanation.

The Nor West wind that blows through Canterbury is extremely dry, it has the ability to suck meters of water content from the soils per hour, leaving the region in cases little more than a dried out dust bowl, when the ground becomes so dry the wind can pick up particles of the top soil and carry this with it, this action has several downsides, it erodes the soils, (and there have been published satellite photos showing the particles travelling out to sea), it increase the of numbers respiratory related incidents in the region, and the kicker is as a motorcyclist the dust reduces visibility, also the wind strengths make riding difficult if not sometime impossible.

[Hitcher]

Hmm thought that would have been a little obvious from my post, soil erosion but here goes a larger explanation.

The Nor West wind that blows through Canterbury is extremely dry, it has the ability to suck meters of water content from the soils per hour, leaving the region in cases little more than a dried out dust bowl, when the ground becomes so dry the wind can pick up particles of the top soil and carry this with it, this action has several downsides, it erodes the soils, (and there have been published satellite photos showing the particles travelling out to sea), it increase the of numbers respiratory related incidents in the region, and the kicker is as a motorcyclist the dust reduces visibility, also the wind strengths make riding difficult if not sometime impossible.

I thought that's what you may have meant. However neither deforestation nor dairying are going to exacerbate that. Indeed both are probably preferable to arable farming, particularly arable farming with practices that involve tillage.

Dairying with extablished pasture and irrigation is probably a good option to mitigate your worst case scenario, provided that irrigation water is applied in a considerate manner.

[puddytat]

Since large scale Dairy moved into my valley all Ive seen them do is:
Cut down any tree in a paddock to make it easier for a Tractor to work
Trees around the periphery dying from root disturbance & excess fertiliser
Fuck the river by running stock in the winter on river flats,imagine 1200 cows up to thier bellies in mud for weeks:nono:
Becuse they fence as close as they can to the river, when the river floods & takes out fences in come the diggers & they MOVE the river:nono:
We now have warning signs evey summer warning about contaimination & being unsafe to swim:Oi:
Watch them dump dead cows every spring into gulles & side creeks:nono:
Have to far too often smell the toxic stench of smouldering baleage wrap ,household waste, oil & spray containers which can go on for days.:facepalm:
Watch retards that they call workers abuse animals,who dont slow down in thier penile extensions they drive for anyone unless you hold your ground & make the fuckers slow down,who think the own the valley when all of them generally own no more than the vehicle they showed up in & who generally last no more than one season so we get to go thru it all again with the next ones:tugger::spanking:
My thanks goes to the Tasman District Council for being an absolutely useless bunch of wally's who still still let them get away with it:nono:
Thanks should also go to Dairy Holdings Ltd who are responsible for this & when you approach the managers they say "its progress, get used to it":tugger:
Fuck the lot of ya's & your little empires will crash when the rest of the dodgey financial world collapses....BRING IT ON!!!:woohoo:

[soundbeltfarm]

i dont know what it is like in other parts of the country but we are dairy farming and it is coming into legislation for compulsary riparian planting on all waterways on our property within the next few years .
the council come out 3 yrs ago with an aerial map of all our waterways and they had a scheme to help entice farmers to plant early in the piece where plants and planting was subsidised.
that has ceased now and soon it will be mandatory too have it all done to the required distance from the rivers edge.
we have numerous water checks in the 2 rivers that flow through this property which the council perform during the year . we dont know when they test and we we also have during our routine or un routine dairy inspections to provide an up to date nutrient budget which i think is a crock of shit for the inspector cause it is a thirty page document that when i pushed them about it they dont understand it.
we get a random check during the year on our effluent systems and the management of it and we also now get the same check from the dairy assessor.
i think that dairy has had boom and authority and maybe technology at the time was to slow in keeping up with it in the 90s.
as for effluent spraying we are not allowed to apply effluent with 30m of our boundary and that includes rivers , roads, etc.
i think some of the problem is with high stocking rates. what used to be about 2.2 cows to the hectare is now over 5 to the hectare in intensive farm. so you get more ground compaction which may lead to some of the run off.
we are 3.5 and we are not intensive at all .
We dont put alot of urea on the farm ( roughly 120 units of N per Ha ) but i know of a shit load of farms that put on a heck of alot but also farms that use bugger all.
It probably does not really explain much about our systems here as i am not good at writing into words what i am trying to say.
but thats a brief overview of nutrient stuff on this farm.
and the council here is fast and harsh on farmers breaking the rules .

[JMemonic]

I thought that's what you may have meant. However neither deforestation nor dairying are going to exacerbate that. Indeed both are probably preferable to arable farming, particularly arable farming with practices that involve tillage.

Dairying with extablished pasture and irrigation is probably a good option to mitigate your worst case scenario, provided that irrigation water is applied in a considerate manner.

Ah there is a couple of problems there, one being the usage of water and the stupid structure of the consents, or I understand that is why dairy farmers must irrigate when it is hosing with rain, now my admittedly limited understanding of the aquifers and their replenishment makes seem a stupid idea, as does the irrigation of the roads but thats another story.

Deforestation is overstating it a bit, here is how my memory goes, way back when the government was lead by a bloke called Robert Muldoon there was an outfit called the DSIR, (we wont go into what happened to that organisation), who invested millions in a study to mitigate some of the issues around the Nor Wester, these cover a range including but not limited to erosion the solution was a structured and scientifically developed arrangement of windbreaks, poplar trees were used in a seemingly random fashion, these did not of course did not lower the amount of air moved but somehow affected the velocity that air travelled at, this in turn lowered the erosion that occurred even on grazing pasture, remember this was a time when the land was umm infested with sheep, (not the sort the general public seem to be nowadays but the woolly things we used to make all or major export money off).

To my way of thinking this removal of these belts must be going to have a kick on effect, you know the thing when you are riding with a strong cross wind and you either break shelter or become sheltered from that wind and the effect it has on your bike, well at times of the year state highway one was like that all across the plains, I recall getting blown into the centre of the road often whilst out one the deadly treadly due to the gusts, I also recall (as I was too young to drive) seeing cars getting blown around, with the occasional truck getting into nasty situations.

Surely the removal is going to open up these issues again.

[scissorhands]

Is intensive dairying a microcosm of business in general? Where profit is the god and just like Easter Island the clock is ticking on them?

[oneofsix]

Don't know that Dairying is the sole problem. Waikanae River has recently been 'closed' to dogs a swimmers from SH1 to Jim Cooke Memorial Park (for anyone that wants to google map it) due to blue-green algae which kills the dogs. Doesn't seem to be much room for intensive dairying upstream. Pine tree plantations and hobby farms mainly.

[sinfull]

Don't know that Dairying is the sole problem. Waikanae River has recently been 'closed' to dogs a swimmers from SH1 to Jim Cooke Memorial Park (for anyone that wants to google map it) due to blue-green algae which kills the dogs. Doesn't seem to be much room for intensive dairying upstream. Pine tree plantations and hobby farms mainly.

+1 on that, just saw the artical and the rock snot is washin off the rocks and ending up on the banks of the river down stream !
Shame, but will be keeping my hound away from her favorite playground from here on !

[Hitcher]

+1 on that, just saw the artical and the rock snot is washin off the rocks and ending up on the banks of the river down stream !
Shame, but will be keeping my hound away from her favorite playground from here on !

There's no "rock snot" (Didymosphenia geminata) in any North Island rivers (yet) and the Waikanae is no exception.

[sinfull]

There's no "rock snot" (Didymosphenia geminata) in any North Island rivers (yet) and the Waikanae is no exception. Not like you to be pedantic lol. Snot nice whatever you like to call it, these "potentially toxic blue-green algal mats" that are detaching from rocks and washing up on the rivers edge downstream !

[TimeOut]

Ah there is a couple of problems there, one being the usage of water and the stupid structure of the consents, or I understand that is why dairy farmers must irrigate when it is hosing with rain, now my admittedly limited understanding of the aquifers and their replenishment makes seem a stupid idea, as does the irrigation of the roads but thats another story..

The irrigators feed from the canals have to give notice sometimes more than 24 hours before any change in water take, so sometimes they get caught out and have to irrigate in the rain.

[puddytat]

I was reading about the demise of arable farming in N.Z in one of the Farmy papers we get & they were bemoaning the fact that even in a time of record prices that they were not recieving any more for thier crops.:(
What freaked me out a tad was that becuse Palm Kernel waste was in the news regarding the ammount being imported etc & a supposed shortage of feed in many areas that the price was being driven up to around $450/tonne.....when there are Kiwi farmers who were struggling to sell feed grain at $350. WTF.:Oi:
Why the fuck is Fonterror promoting an import from a dodgey industry in even dodgier countries.....is it because they buy so much of our powder?:scratch::yeah:

[JMemonic]

The irrigators feed from the canals have to give notice sometimes more than 24 hours before any change in water take, so sometimes they get caught out and have to irrigate in the rain.

The ones I often see and are thinking about would not be drawing from canals but bores, and a couple of them have told me in Nrt Canterbury their permit means the have to draw water every day at a certain rate, rain hail or shine, bureaucratic stupidity really.