4wd - options

[cbfb]

Just applied for a loan for 6k to get myself a new car (yeah I know it's a bike site but I need a car too for practical stuff).

I want something that will tow a trailer/boat (nothing too heavy) and be good to use on the beach when I go surfcasting. And also be OK to do a bit of light off-roading in to get to huts/campsites when I go hunting or tramping with the gf. BUT it also needs to be comfortable and cheap enough for me to use for my hour round trip to work every day.

I am thinking Diesel. I have always liked manuals, and assume they are better off road than autos?

So far I am thinking a Hilux would be good, or a Terrano. But I guess a 4wd wagon could be a possibility?

Any thoughts or opinions welcome. Oh and if you know of one for sale in Palmy or near Woodville...

Cheers

[CookMySock]

Hilux Surf is the business. 3.0L Turbo engine goes real good.

<img src="http://www.usecarinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Toyota-Hilux-Surf.jpg">

[cbfb]

Hilux Surf is the business. 3.0L Turbo engine goes real good.

<img src="http://www.usecarinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Toyota-Hilux-Surf.jpg">

Sweet - do you know what the fuel economy is like? Got a mate who uses one of these on his farm reckons they are the bollocks.

[CookMySock]

The 1996 intercooled one will do about 600km on a tank (70L ish?)

The 1995 non-intercooled only did 520km ish.

The 1996 is also a lot quieter on the road at cruising speed, and has much better traction in the soft sand.

We are looking at upgrading ours (kms getting up a bit), and much as we look at getting something else, we just can't imagine not having another surf. A much loved wagon by all the family. Adequate in the soft, a tire-shredder around town, and loads of oommpf on the open road.

[Banditbandit]

I have a Nissan Terrano - 2.7 diesel with intercooler turbo ... bit gutless speedwise, but then I have the bikes for speed ...

I tow my Fryan 360 boat with it - no worries - I use it in the back country for hunting - no worries - been across snow in it - no worries .. down the beach, no worries.

It's auto .. and I don't find that a hassle off road. On snow I drop it into second and leave it there ...

It also has electric 4 wheel drive-two wheel drive select. Running it in 4 wheeel drive mode does lift the fuel consumption ..

I'm not that hooked on them that I think they are better than any other ones - but we've had no hassles with it at all .. just runs ... very comfortable long distance ... heaps of room inside and the back seats drop down ..

A good all-round 4x4 if your not looking for massive power and competitions

[cbfb]

The 1996 intercooled one will do about 600km on a tank (70L ish?)

The 1995 non-intercooled only did 520km ish.

The 1996 is also a lot quieter on the road at cruising speed, and has much better traction in the soft sand.

We are looking at upgrading ours (kms getting up a bit), and much as we look at getting something else, we just can't imagine not having another surf. A much loved wagon by all the family. Adequate in the soft, a tire-shredder around town, and loads of oommpf on the open road.

Awesome, have you had any mechanical issues I need to look out for?


I have a Nissan Terrano - 2.7 diesel with intercooler turbo ... bit gutless speedwise, but then I have the bikes for speed ...

I tow my Fryan 360 boat with it - no worries - I use it in the back country for hunting - no worries - been across snow in it - no worries .. down the beach, no worries.

It's auto .. and I don't find that a hassle off road. On snow I drop it into second and leave it there ...

It also has electric 4 wheel drive-two wheel drive select. Running it in 4 wheeel drive mode does lift the fuel consumption ..

I'm not that hooked on them that I think they are better than any other ones - but we've had no hassles with it at all .. just runs ... very comfortable long distance ... heaps of room inside and the back seats drop down ..

A good all-round 4x4 if your not looking for massive power and competitions

Yeah I drove a 2.7 diesel manual, pretty gutless aye but I go thru the gorge and back every day following campervans/nanas so not too much of an issue.

Again that sounds all good - so I'm assuming from what you've said that you've had no major mechanicals?

[spajohn]

I drive a '98 SWB Prado, diesel and auto. I get around 600k from the 90l tank, though it is full time 4WD, where are the Surf gearbox has 2WD and 4WD. It's been bashed offroad quite a bit (sides and roof) and still goes like a charm. Had it on its side for 2-3 hours, once we got it back on the rubber got it running again after 2-3 goes.

As for auto or manual loads of comp guys use Auto these days. It's better than it used to be when everyone wanted only manual. Main advantages of auto are you can gear change when in a river, and better up hill. Manual is preferred for downhill and just generally more challenge - hence less popular in comps.

I test drove quite a few vehicles before buying...Nissan were gutless even with turbo. I prefered the Prado to the Surf...Surf feels more like a car by comparison.

You pay for the name, and certainly a lot more for the diesel engine. You do the math on a 90l tank and don't forget RUC.

[spajohn]

Oh, and you can check this site for economy.
http://www.fuelsaver.govt.nz/index.html

[CookMySock]

Awesome, have you had any mechanical issues I need to look out for?I tightened a fan belt once. :cool:

But seriously, you should check whether the coolant is clean and fresh looking. The 1KZ engine should never never never never be overheated. :nono:

[The Stranger]

I have a Nissan Terrano - 2.7 diesel with intercooler turbo ... bit gutless speedwise, but then I have the bikes for speed ...

I tow my Fryan 360 boat with it - no worries - I use it in the back country for hunting - no worries - been across snow in it - no worries .. down the beach, no worries.

It's auto .. and I don't find that a hassle off road. On snow I drop it into second and leave it there ...

It also has electric 4 wheel drive-two wheel drive select. Running it in 4 wheeel drive mode does lift the fuel consumption ..

I'm not that hooked on them that I think they are better than any other ones - but we've had no hassles with it at all .. just runs ... very comfortable long distance ... heaps of room inside and the back seats drop down ..

A good all-round 4x4 if your not looking for massive power and competitions

+1 bought it to beach launch the boat. I wanted something cheap ($3k) that if it went for a swim I really wouldn't be upset about.

Goes great with a few cheap mods - I always take the cheap power.
I can get significantly more power from it but only problem is exhaust gas temps easily hit 800c when I cane it. Needs an intercooler to round out the mods.

The motor in these is recognised as being rock solid. The same mill is used in trucks, cars, London taxis, 4x4s, fork hoists and in a marinised version.

They say the auto is more fuel efficient than the manual on the road due to ratios. No good looking at my fuel usage as it's a fair bit more than it was standard. On the plus side there's a guy in Ausie been running his on 50/50 diesel/used sump oil for a couple of years. Can't be any worse than our current waste oil recycling program can it? The way oil is recycled in NZ is that it gets used to fire the kiln at the cement works.

I've added an auto trans cooler too which is pretty necessary for any significant towing jobs on these.

There is a common fault with rust under the back seat, so check this before you buy.

[cbfb]

I drive a '98 SWB Prado, diesel and auto. I get around 600k from the 90l tank, though it is full time 4WD, where are the Surf gearbox has 2WD and 4WD. It's been bashed offroad quite a bit (sides and roof) and still goes like a charm. Had it on its side for 2-3 hours, once we got it back on the rubber got it running again after 2-3 goes.

As for auto or manual loads of comp guys use Auto these days. It's better than it used to be when everyone wanted only manual. Main advantages of auto are you can gear change when in a river, and better up hill. Manual is preferred for downhill and just generally more challenge - hence less popular in comps.

I test drove quite a few vehicles before buying...Nissan were gutless even with turbo. I prefered the Prado to the Surf...Surf feels more like a car by comparison.

You pay for the name, and certainly a lot more for the diesel engine. You do the math on a 90l tank and don't forget RUC.

Thanks man - for some reason I hadn't considered the Prado, I always thought them a bit expensive. Will take a look though.

When you say more recent autos are better, how late are we talking? For my money I'll probably be looking early to mid nineties so don't know if that will apply.


I tightened a fan belt once. :cool:

But seriously, you should check whether the coolant is clean and fresh looking. The 1KZ engine should never never never never be overheated. :nono:

Good tip thanks will look out for that.


+1 bought it to beach launch the boat. I wanted something cheap ($3k) that if it went for a swim I really wouldn't be upset about.

Goes great with a few cheap mods - I always take the cheap power.
I can get significantly more power from it but only problem is exhaust gas temps easily hit 800c when I cane it. Needs an intercooler to round out the mods.

The motor in these is recognised as being rock solid. The same mill is used in trucks, cars, London taxis, 4x4s, fork hoists and in a marinised version.

They say the auto is more fuel efficient than the manual on the road due to ratios. No good looking at my fuel usage as it's a fair bit more than it was standard. On the plus side there's a guy in Ausie been running his on 50/50 diesel/used sump oil for a couple of years. Can't be any worse than our current waste oil recycling program can it? The way oil is recycled in NZ is that it gets used to fire the kiln at the cement works.

I've added an auto trans cooler too which is pretty necessary for any significant towing jobs on these.

There is a common fault with rust under the back seat, so check this before you buy.

Cool, good info thanks. I've heard people mention the rust under the back seats on a few 4wds, will look out for it.

[spajohn]

Thanks man - for some reason I hadn't considered the Prado, I always thought them a bit expensive. Will take a look though.

When you say more recent autos are better, how late are we talking? For my money I'll probably be looking early to mid nineties so don't know if that will apply.

I'm by no means a mechanic but as I understand it from 4x4 club guys 90's onwards would be fine. I think the essential takeaway is that it really comes down to preference these days and quite frankly it's bit of a myth, or at least old boys, that reckon manual is the only way to go with 4x4's. As I say though, if you are gonna drive it in water, the auto would be better.

As for price you are gonna pay more for anything with a Toyota badge on it. I don't recall the Prado being much more than a lot of Hilux's that were similar age (as I was looking at swb Prado) but I guess it comes down to what bargains you can find around the place.

[george formby]

Had a 2.7D Terrano & an old 2.0P Surf.

The Terrano was really nice vehicle. It was auto & a lot of heat came up from the box even though it had an oversize oil cooler fitted, if I remember rightly they have gear driven cams. Despite the heat I never had any problems & I thrashed it, lived on an 18k beach at the time so the poor thing spent hours in the dunes, had it airborne & launched my tinnie off the beach.
Bit of a pain to service though. I sold it & went overseas.

Came back from overseas & bought the Surf, cheap as chips. Lived in the same place & if anything treated it worse than the Terrano. It was cheaper to run when you include diesel tax & was better off road. Servicing & maintenance was a doddle. The engine ( same as a hiace ) was unbreakable.

The Terrano was as slow as wet weekend but the Toyota struggled to keep up which actually made driving very stress free & enjoyable. Their was no point in trying to overtake anything.

Both good vehicles so go for the best condition, youngest, lowest mileage etc.

[cbfb]

I'm by no means a mechanic but as I understand it from 4x4 club guys 90's onwards would be fine. I think the essential takeaway is that it really comes down to preference these days and quite frankly it's bit of a myth, or at least old boys, that reckon manual is the only way to go with 4x4's. As I say though, if you are gonna drive it in water, the auto would be better.

As for price you are gonna pay more for anything with a Toyota badge on it. I don't recall the Prado being much more than a lot of Hilux's that were similar age (as I was looking at swb Prado) but I guess it comes down to what bargains you can find around the place.

Lot easier driving an auto round town too, which I do quite a bit of the time. Will keep it in mind, like you say best to have plenty of options you never know what will come up.


Had a 2.7D Terrano & an old 2.0P Surf.

The Terrano was really nice vehicle. It was auto & a lot of heat came up from the box even though it had an oversize oil cooler fitted, if I remember rightly they have gear driven cams. Despite the heat I never had any problems & I thrashed it, lived on an 18k beach at the time so the poor thing spent hours in the dunes, had it airborne & launched my tinnie off the beach.
Bit of a pain to service though. I sold it & went overseas.

Came back from overseas & bought the Surf, cheap as chips. Lived in the same place & if anything treated it worse than the Terrano. It was cheaper to run when you include diesel tax & was better off road. Servicing & maintenance was a doddle. The engine ( same as a hiace ) was unbreakable.

The Terrano was as slow as wet weekend but the Toyota struggled to keep up which actually made driving very stress free & enjoyable. Their was no point in trying to overtake anything.

Both good vehicles so go for the best condition, youngest, lowest mileage etc.

Hmmm, interesting the Surf was cheaper to run, I would have put it the other way round (dunno much about it tho was just an assumption). Pretty much let the availability make the choice for me then, if a good example of either comes up will grab it.

[george formby]

Hmmm, interesting the Surf was cheaper to run, I would have put it the other way round (dunno much about it tho was just an assumption). Pretty much let the availability make the choice for me then, if a good example of either comes up will grab it.

Bear in mind it was the 2 litre petrol engine in the Toyota, the starter motor had more grunt. The RUC took any advantage out of the diesel & it had higher servicing costs. A 3ltr surf is a pretty thirsty beast too.

[Banditbandit]

Awesome, have you had any mechanical issues I need to look out for?



Yeah I drove a 2.7 diesel manual, pretty gutless aye but I go thru the gorge and back every day following campervans/nanas so not too much of an issue.

Again that sounds all good - so I'm assuming from what you've said that you've had no major mechanicals?


No major mechanicals ... regular maintenance and oil changes arer necesasary in small diesels ... occassionally I drop injector cleaner in the fuel tank ...

No hassles at all.


Hmmm, interesting the Surf was cheaper to run, I would have put it the other way round (dunno much about it tho was just an assumption). Pretty much let the availability make the choice for me then, if a good example of either comes up will grab it.


It depends a lot opn the price of Diesel. When we got ours diesel was around 40c cents a litre cheaper than petrol - and even with road user charges that made it cheaper to run ... then diesel actually went up more than petrol and the difference was around 20cents a litre - then it was more expensive to run. The price difference is currently around 60cents a litlre .. so we are way better off.

Short term it depends on the fuel price at the time - long term, it's swings and roundabouts ..

[BEAMER89]

lve had a 2.7 Terrano and agree with the guttlis comments but now lve got the 3.2d terrano and its like a rocket ship comperad with the 2.7. Both have a bullet proof motor, l got from Chch to Taupo just over 800kms and still had a fuel in the tank but filled up anyway altough l was driing like a nana, sat on 100km/h most of the way as it was at very early morning with hardly any other traffic on the road. Highly reccomend them and personaly think they are as good if not better than Toymota without the huge price tag.:rolleyes:

[Brett]

Thanks man - for some reason I hadn't considered the Prado, I always thought them a bit expensive. Will take a look though.

When you say more recent autos are better, how late are we talking? For my money I'll probably be looking early to mid nineties so don't know if that will apply.



Good tip thanks will look out for that.



Cool, good info thanks. I've heard people mention the rust under the back seats on a few 4wds, will look out for it.

I went from a V8 Audi S4 to a 1996 Prado because I wanted something more practical that I can (try) and take anywhere I want to. To date, it has not under delivered. Prado is a seriously cool truck, Missus and I have decided that no matter what we end up driving in the future, Prado is staying.

Diesel is the way to go IMO...

[JimO]

if your looking at a prado make sure its intercooled some NZ new ones arnt, it makes a difference i had one for 5 years and a new turbo deisel hilux, the prado would blow the hilux away any day of the week, i now have a D4d hilux which leaves the prado in the dust

[cbfb]

All good thanks everyone, some valuable information there.

Had a look at some other vehicles this afternoon, does anyone have an opinion on the following?

- Suzuki Escudo
- Isuzu Bighorn
- Jeep Cherokee
- Mazda Proceed Marvie
- Mitsubishi Pajero
- Any others I should be looking at

Again, many thanks I appreciate the advice.

[Flip]

All good thanks everyone, some valuable information there.

Had a look at some other vehicles this afternoon, does anyone have an opinion on the following?

- Suzuki Escudo
- Isuzu Bighorn
- Jeep Cherokee
- Mazda Proceed Marvie
- Mitsubishi Pajero
- Any others I should be looking at

Again, many thanks I appreciate the advice.

I have a new work D4d hilux, its ok but its not a landrover, its also noisy when cold and its been back a few times for warranty work.

My wife has a Suzuki Vitara 1.6. had it for 12 years since new and its been 100%.

Don't look at old Cherokee's parts are very expensive. A mate broke a half shaft and the replacement was $1600 ex USA, I broke one in my V8 landy and it was $98.

Isuzu are good but very heavy (kg and fuel). Mazda and Mitzy are jap so I can't help.

[Brett]

Bighorn = prone to overheating issues from what i have heard
Suzuki = pretty reliable little machine
Cherokee = piece of crap, heavy on fuel, break easily and expensive to fix
Pajero = another pretty reasonable option.

Also look at older Nissan Patrols for something in your budget.

[DEATH_INC.]

first up,
Suzuki Escudo, as above sweet as but a bit small for towing much

- Isuzu Bighorn, unreliable fuel system, crack chassis and fairly shit off road

- Jeep Cherokee, comfy and good power, but easy to break and F*cken expensive to repair

- Mazda Proceed Marvie, ok, but drive a bit like a truck on the road

- Mitsubishi Pajero, again ok, but it's a mitsubishi....

- 96 on Terrano are sweet for a road car, they'll break if you do much off road tho.

Prado's are good, I'd have thought too dear too.

Dunno about Surfs, all I know is the early one's do heads, and they bend front end stuff off raod if you're rough...

I've got an early 9pre 96) D21 Terrano turbo diesel that I've owned for 12-13 years. Absolutely bulletproof despite trying to break it many times.....and creamed my mates surf off road easy.....

[cbfb]

I have a new work D4d hilux, its ok but its not a landrover, its also noisy when cold and its been back a few times for warranty work.

My wife has a Suzuki Vitara 1.6. had it for 12 years since new and its been 100%.

Don't look at old Cherokee's parts are very expensive. A mate broke a half shaft and the replacement was $1600 ex USA, I broke one in my V8 landy and it was $98.

Isuzu are good but very heavy (kg and fuel). Mazda and Mitzy are jap so I can't help.

Yeah I've heard good things about the Vitaras, might be a wee bit small but cheaper to run I guess.

OK crossed the Cherokee off!

Yep I dunno about Isuzus, not the first time someone has mentioned them being thirsty.


Bighorn = prone to overheating issues from what i have heard
Suzuki = pretty reliable little machine
Cherokee = piece of crap, heavy on fuel, break easily and expensive to fix
Pajero = another pretty reasonable option.

Also look at older Nissan Patrols for something in your budget.

Sweet thanks, as above will keep the Vitara in mind and scrap the Cherokee.

Yep the Patrol is a good idea thanks, will add that to the list. Don't know anyone with one but am sure I can arrange a test drive or two.

Thanks again all.

[DEATH_INC.]

Yep the Patrol is a good idea thanks, will add that to the list. Don't know anyone with one but am sure I can arrange a test drive or two.

Thanks again all.
Patrols are definatly sweet, but they're a big heavy bugger of a machine, but will tow the titanic if need be. Pretty comfy and don't go too bad (get a 4.2, they're better than the smaller engine turbo ones) but don't expect a million mpg.

[cbfb]

first up,
Suzuki Escudo, as above sweet as but a bit small for towing much

- Isuzu Bighorn, unreliable fuel system, crack chassis and fairly shit off road

- Jeep Cherokee, comfy and good power, but easy to break and F*cken expensive to repair

- Mazda Proceed Marvie, ok, but drive a bit like a truck on the road

- Mitsubishi Pajero, again ok, but it's a mitsubishi....

- 96 on Terrano are sweet for a road car, they'll break if you do much off road tho.

Prado's are good, I'd have thought too dear too.

Dunno about Surfs, all I know is the early one's do heads, and they bend front end stuff off raod if you're rough...

I've got an early 9pre 96) D21 Terrano turbo diesel that I've owned for 12-13 years. Absolutely bulletproof despite trying to break it many times.....and creamed my mates surf off road easy.....


Patrols are definatly sweet, but they're a big heavy bugger of a machine, but will tow the titanic if need be. Pretty comfy and don't go too bad (get a 4.2, they're better than the smaller engine turbo ones) but don't expect a million mpg.

Yeah I wasn't planning on doing anything too mental off road, mainly just access to huts/campsites, beaches and riverbeds. Don't have the knowledge/wallet to do anything too hardcore.

4.2L sounds a bit of a thirsty beast, maybe not the best idea, I only need to tow a tinny and a single-axle trailer.

These Cherokees aren't popular!

Thanks, getting a good list together now.

[BMWST?]

Nissan patrol is in the same league as a landcruiser,with a bit of a lift they are a serious offroader....someone has mentioned it before prado are full time4wd with resultant increase in fuel consumption and tyre wear.I dont think a prado will be in your price range though.Once you get into those big trucks though you must get a diesel the petrol ones will be in the high teens l per 100 k i would think.If getting a deisel dont forget to figure in the ruc it will be at least 5 c per k for most vehicles you are looking at You will pay 44.31 per thousand ks plus a fee of 9.78.if you are over 2 tonnes its 46.51 over 3 tonnes its 49.29.The weight is important because you can get fined if you have a ruc sticker for less than the weight of your rig,and of course the weight of you rig will be the fully laden weight .I dont know how towing a trailer figures into that.

[Flip]

I was thinking about this last night. I can't recommend the Vitara high enough. OK they are small but they are also the best road vehicle out of this bunch. OK they are small but they are also as good a 4WD as any of your bunch (with 30-32" tires they go most places the tough trucks can only go). I would not tow a caravan with one but mine has pulled a heavy single axle trailer just fine. OK they are small but they are very fuel efficient. The one I brought new in 99 and it is still going strong, I have not spent a dime on the thing apart from oil and tires.

It's just not a landrover thats its only problem.

[Dadpole]

I would look twice at a Vitara. The one we had (1600 5 door) was cheap to run, handled well and could easily tow a trailer with bike on board. The Subaru outback is another option, but limited by ground clearance.

[The Stranger]

All good thanks everyone, some valuable information there.

Had a look at some other vehicles this afternoon, does anyone have an opinion on the following?

- Suzuki Escudo
- Isuzu Bighorn
- Jeep Cherokee
- Mazda Proceed Marvie
- Mitsubishi Pajero
- Any others I should be looking at

Again, many thanks I appreciate the advice.

If towing is a goal, I wouldn't go for a short wheel base.
It's hard to beat cubes for towing also. Sure 2.0 litre may do it, but 3.0 will do it easier, for longer and probably cheaper too (whilst towing).

Toyota and Nissan in general have a good name when it comes to reliablity.

[DEATH_INC.]

It's just not a landrover thats its best feature.
There ya go, fixed it for ya.

[Madness]

Older Pajero diesels have an uncanny habit of shearing a keyway on the crank timing pulley, resulting in a lunched valvetrain. I had a mate that thus happened to twice.

[Motu]

Toyota and Nissan in general have a good name when it comes to reliablity.

A different story with diesels - Toyota are by far the most unreliable,heads crack at the merest wisp of overheating,and with bucket followers a broken cambelt means a destroyed top end.Nissan are by far the most reliable of the Japanese diesels (apart from the ZD30),the TD27/QD32 are the benchmark,sure they can crack a head,but I've seen them seize a piston and not even blow a headgasket.

Rego costs on a diesel 4x4 are now crippling,it's cheaper to run a petrol these days.The V6 Vitara is not trouble free,but if I wanted another 4x4 I look at one of those.The diesel Suzuki is a Peugeot I think...I haven't had the couple I work on have major trouble yet,it's all cooling system stuff,but they are dirty messy things.

[Warr]

I have had 2 Isuzu Bighorns and currently own a Isuzu Wizard.
The Bighorns towed the 17' caravan sweet. I had an additional oil-cooler fitted for piece of mind. Performance wise the Lotus optioned ones are the choice by far and power low to moderate!

The Wizard is great. Suspension is budget, tho a new set of shocks improves the ride.
Economy .. the tank holds 80l and I can count on getting 800km, slightly less if there's too much round town.
Performance. The 3.0 litre 4JX1 motor is power to spare. First diesel I have been in that does 160k's with some reserve.
The engines can give trouble but I have been lucky so far :)

[Flip]

There ya go, fixed it for ya.

Thanks a bunch

[Smifffy]

I've seen a couple of posts now lamenting that different wagons aren't landrovers, yet nobody has suggested a discovery.

Is there an issue with them?

[nallac]

I've seen a couple of posts now lamenting that different wagons aren't landrovers, yet nobody has suggested a discovery.

Is there an issue with them?


Are you rich?....do you like walking?lots?,......want to be on a first name basis with every gas station owner?,........do you have AA breakdown recovery on your speed dial?.

[Flip]

I didnt think the diesel ones were too bad. They were just a defender with a flash body. I do know the petrol ones were hard on fuel.

For folk who wanted a defender without the noise, dirt, leaks or weather proof-ness.

I love my landy, things are right when I drive it.

[Winston001]

I was a member of a 4WD club for 10 years. Have owned an Izuzu Trooper and 2 Toyota Prados. I'd buy another Prado tomorrow. This is nearly identical to mine http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Toyota/Prado/auction-362679473.htm

The general advice was never to buy a 4wd beginning with M. No idea about Mazda but Mitsubishi Pajeros had their problems, and Mitsubishi itself nearly went under. My Isuzu was tough but rough compared to any Toyota.

Nissan Patrol is very good.

Suzuki have a good reputation too.

If I was you I'd look for a 3 litre turbo-diesel Toyota Surf. Same engine as the Prado and sold in the USA as the 4 Runner. Slightly lower roof line but a nice vehicle and more of them than Prados at $6k.

Incidentally my Prado has 260,000km on it and feels like it is new.

Recently I tried an experiment driving a trip at 90kph. The fuel saving was amazing and surprisingly not much traffic passed me. Normally get 730k to a tank but over 830 this time.

[Ocean1]

Recently I tried an experiment driving a trip at 90kph.

Deviant bastard.

Next thing you’ll be indicating and keeping left.

[JimO]

I was a member of a 4WD club for 10 years. Have owned an Izuzu Trooper and 2 Toyota Prados. I'd buy another Prado tomorrow. This is nearly identical to mine http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Toyota/Prado/auction-362679473.htm

The general advice was never to buy a 4wd beginning with M. No idea about Mazda but Mitsubishi Pajeros had their problems, and Mitsubishi itself nearly went under. My Isuzu was tough but rough compared to any Toyota.

Nissan Patrol is very good.

Suzuki have a good reputation too.

If I was you I'd look for a 3 litre turbo-diesel Toyota Surf. Same engine as the Prado and sold in the USA as the 4 Runner. Slightly lower roof line but a nice vehicle and more of them than Prados at $6k.

Incidentally my Prado has 260,000km on it and feels like it is new.

Recently I tried an experiment driving a trip at 90kph. The fuel saving was amazing and surprisingly not much traffic passed me. Normally get 730k to a tank but over 830 this time.

that red one wont be intercooled it makes a huge difference

[Banditbandit]

When we were looking for a 4x4 a mechanic friend said "Mitsubishis keep me in business" - meaning he was always fixing them. Dunno how true that is, but it put me off Mitzis - even tho' they are nice to drive.

[sil3nt]

Does anyone know if there are 4WDs that have large enough boot space so snowboards can be packed in without interfering with rear seat passengers?

After something for the snow (as i was last year) and wagons don't cut it and would like to avoid roof racks if possible.

Hilux surf looks massive in the back so could be the go...

[Laava]

To be honest, I don't think 6k would buy you the vehicle you are looking for in a turbo diesel. Reason I say that is that you are looking for a primary vehicle to use for everything [Have I got that right?] and TD4x4s are expensive until they get old and start needing money spent on them. If you can't afford a low mileage one, look at petrol or a V6 Vitara as someone else suggested. Not to say that you can't find a goodun, but IMO you will struggle. 5 yrs ago I was looking at a work ute in a TD4x4 for 12k or less and I had to give up as the best I could find had done about 180k km and was looking like needing a birthday to the tune of several more thou.

[DEATH_INC.]

When we were looking for a 4x4 a mechanic friend said "Mitsubishis keep me in business" - meaning he was always fixing them. Dunno how true that is, but it put me off Mitzis - even tho' they are nice to drive.

Where I work they're known as 'the three diamonds of disaster'

[neels]

I've got a 94 terrano that I've had for 8 years and 90k's, in that time it's cost me some cv boots and suspension joints, otherwise it just keeps going.

If you crunch the numbers on fuel economy the diesel is still cheaper than the petrol, even with 4.6c/k RUC and the extra $130 rego.

Can't see me replacing it any time soon, it's probably got another 100k's in it yet, and the options for something newer are limited if you like the idea of a 4wd with a full chassis under it.

[Swoop]

Dunno about Surfs, all I know is the early one's do heads
A mate's Surf decided to put a piston out into some fresh air... He certainly maintained the thing well, but it still shat itself.

Another mate has had one for 7 years now and hasn't had any hassles with it.

[JimO]

When we were looking for a 4x4 a mechanic friend said "Mitsubishis keep me in business" - meaning he was always fixing them. Dunno how true that is, but it put me off Mitzis - even tho' they are nice to drive.

they give a good warranty on the new ones now

[Smifffy]

A mate's Surf decided to put a piston out into some fresh air... He certainly maintained the thing well, but it still shat itself.

Another mate has had one for 7 years now and hasn't had any hassles with it.

The helium would be more expensive than the postage ;)

[Jackal]

Have owned a 2.7 petrol Surf for over 12 years. Done over 310,000 km's and it still drives like the day we got it. Have not spent a penny on anything serious. (Transfer case seal and radiator top tank split the only 'workshop jobs') Used it on the farm and never got it stuck. Towed farm impliments and tamdem trailers full of deer both on road and in the paddock. Found the auto good as gold in all conditions. Did the sums before getting this in regards to petrol v diesel. Taking into account RUC, twice as many services and the ever narrowing gap between petrol/diesel prices we went for the non-turbo petrol model.

[cbfb]

Thanks heaps, some really good stuff here.

Just trying to find some info on petrol/diesel economy, got a few models but does anyone know what the following will do? Petrol and/or diesel is good.

Want to work out the approximate costs of running them.

Bighorn, Wizard, Cherokee, Discovery, Proceed Marvie, Pajero, Patrol, Terrano, Escudo, Vitara, Surf, Prado...

Will post results.

[cbfb]

Another question - not having owned a diesel before, I'm not too sure about the servicing. I'm aware they require more frequent servicing, but are we just talking oil changes or is there more to it? How often are we talking?

Cheers

[Banditbandit]

Another question - not having owned a diesel before, I'm not too sure about the servicing. I'm aware they require more frequent servicing, but are we just talking oil changes or is there more to it? How often are we talking?

Cheers

We service ours regularly - every 6,000ks - oil and filters change. That's the important part as diesels run better on clean oil. They also seem to make the oil dirtier, thicker and blacker quicker than petrol engines.

Clean injectors is important - new ones should not be as bad as older ones ... I drop injector cleaner into the tank on occassions. And sometimes get them properly cleaned with the service ...

That's about it ...

[cbfb]

We service ours regularly - every 6,000ks - oil and filters change. That's the important part as diesels run better on clean oil. They also seem to make the oil dirtier, thicker and blacker quicker than petrol engines.

Clean injectors is important - new ones should not be as bad as older ones ... I drop injector cleaner into the tank on occassions. And sometimes get them properly cleaned with the service ...

That's about it ...

That would soon rack up. I have mine done every 12000km or 6 months generally (petrol). Although oil changes I can do myself if I can be bothered.

Anyone got any thoughts on LPG trucks? There's a quite tidy one for sale near me.

[DEATH_INC.]

Another question - not having owned a diesel before, I'm not too sure about the servicing. I'm aware they require more frequent servicing, but are we just talking oil changes or is there more to it? How often are we talking?

Cheers
I service mine when I remember ('90 terrano td27t) I've owned it for 12-13 years and it's done well over 200k's (not sure exactly, the mileage counter broke :shit:) and been well thrashed, I can remember everything that's gone wrong with it (most of them being my fault :facepalm: ) and count them on my fingers..... You really can't go past these for the money now.

[Shadowjack]

I have a 1600, manual, 16-valve, 5 door Escudo/Vitara.
Open road (at or near the speed limit, and with some light 4WDing) = 35-ish MPG
Around town = 30-32 MPG.
Oil change/filter = every 10,000 kms (5 litre oil pack will give some left over for top-ups, if required).
Outside of tyres and front brake pads, spark-plugs and a fuel filter, I've had to replace a muffler, and front control-arm bushes, and....that's it.
With the exception of river work, I've taken it anywhere I took my 60-series Landcruiser (I'm not an extreme 4WD'er).
The Vitara has survived the teaching of my two children how to drive, and some of their excursions camping and ski-ing. How tough is that!?
I have not used it for any lengthy towing purposes, although my son did attach a tandem furniture trailer when he was shifting flats once.
I like it.

[Motu]

The older diesels required 5,000km oil changes with an HDEO,and filters at 10,000km,the filters were more expensive dual element type.Modern common rail engines have 15,000km oil changes using a passenger car oil and smaller single element filters...although Mitsi are still using dual element as they still use the old blocks.

[Flip]

That would soon rack up. I have mine done every 12000km or 6 months generally (petrol). Although oil changes I can do myself if I can be bothered.

Anyone got any thoughts on LPG trucks? There's a quite tidy one for sale near me.

I have a LPG V8 Landrover. LPG is only $1.30 at the moment. Every 10 years the tank needs a vessel cert- inspection thats about the only problem. You loose about 10% power on LPG unless it is a special high compression LPG motor. LPG also burns very cleanly and LPG motors last for ages. I change the oil and filter every 10k and thats all I do.

[neels]

Just trying to find some info on petrol/diesel economy, got a few models but does anyone know what the following will do? Petrol and/or diesel is good.
When I was looking at buying my terrano, I found somewhere (no idea where now)the rough numbers of 20mpg on petrol and 28mpg on diesel, which from the diesel end seems about right. So based on that I figured on 10,000k's a year, at the time 30c difference between petrol and diesel and 2.5c/k RUC it was worth doing. With the diesel/petrol difference now around 60c and RUC 4.6c/k it still works out OK.


Another question - not having owned a diesel before, I'm not too sure about the servicing. I'm aware they require more frequent servicing, but are we just talking oil changes or is there more to it? How often are we talking?
Cheers
I do oil every 5k's, oil and filter every 10k's, otherwise pretty much don't touch it. Probably should get the auto serviced one of these days, I'm pretty sure the recommended interval is a bit less than 90k's :whistle:

[cbfb]

I service mine when I remember ('90 terrano td27t) I've owned it for 12-13 years and it's done well over 200k's (not sure exactly, the mileage counter broke :shit:) and been well thrashed, I can remember everything that's gone wrong with it (most of them being my fault :facepalm: ) and count them on my fingers..... You really can't go past these for the money now.

It's just finding one in manual that's tidy and not hugely expensive. Been looking around and there's not a lot locally. I do like them though, it would be my first choice I think.


I have a 1600, manual, 16-valve, 5 door Escudo/Vitara.
Open road (at or near the speed limit, and with some light 4WDing) = 35-ish MPG
Around town = 30-32 MPG.
Oil change/filter = every 10,000 kms (5 litre oil pack will give some left over for top-ups, if required).
Outside of tyres and front brake pads, spark-plugs and a fuel filter, I've had to replace a muffler, and front control-arm bushes, and....that's it.
With the exception of river work, I've taken it anywhere I took my 60-series Landcruiser (I'm not an extreme 4WD'er).
The Vitara has survived the teaching of my two children how to drive, and some of their excursions camping and ski-ing. How tough is that!?
I have not used it for any lengthy towing purposes, although my son did attach a tandem furniture trailer when he was shifting flats once.
I like it.

Thanks, I like the look of the Vitara and there's a fair few around and cheap too. Just seen a 2001 one with low kms, very tidy, under 5k.


The older diesels required 5,000km oil changes with an HDEO,and filters at 10,000km,the filters were more expensive dual element type.Modern common rail engines have 15,000km oil changes using a passenger car oil and smaller single element filters...although Mitsi are still using dual element as they still use the old blocks.

Thanks, what is an HDEO sorry and is it expensive? Cheers :)


I have a LPG V8 Landrover. LPG is only $1.30 at the moment. Every 10 years the tank needs a vessel cert- inspection thats about the only problem. You loose about 10% power on LPG unless it is a special high compression LPG motor. LPG also burns very cleanly and LPG motors last for ages. I change the oil and filter every 10k and thats all I do.

How do you find the availability of LPG? Not paid any attention to whether it's available in garages out in the sticks.


When I was looking at buying my terrano, I found somewhere (no idea where now)the rough numbers of 20mpg on petrol and 28mpg on diesel, which from the diesel end seems about right. So based on that I figured on 10,000k's a year, at the time 30c difference between petrol and diesel and 2.5c/k RUC it was worth doing. With the diesel/petrol difference now around 60c and RUC 4.6c/k it still works out OK.

I do oil every 5k's, oil and filter every 10k's, otherwise pretty much don't touch it. Probably should get the auto serviced one of these days, I'm pretty sure the recommended interval is a bit less than 90k's :whistle:

I suppose if it's just oil and filter it's not too expensive. I get a full service on my petrol car every 12k/6months currently and that's 140 bucks.

[Flip]

No problems.

I mine is still a dual fuel motor. I have a 70 liter petrol and 80 liter LPG tank.

I do a lot of hunting in Otago I can get gas in Alexander, Cromwell, Omarama, Tekapo, Fairly (at the tire shop). Because most places have a 9kg cylinder filling station they also sell automotive LPG.

About the only place it is a bit scarce is on the west coast of the south island, but Franz and Westport have it.

I love the stuff, its clean, easy to tune and cheap. I also have a decanting hose so I can empty a 9kg into the tank if it is really empty or vent vapor from the auto tank and transfer the liquid into car.

235181

[rebel]

The problem with LPG is availability and variance in prices (from 1.30-1.70 depending where you go). I found in my falcon that over 1000km LPG was about $20 cheaper but that isn;t taking into account the extra annual LPG cert and the loss in boot space for the tank. I ended up ripping it out in the end.

If you're looking at petrols you can;t go past the 1990s Cherokees. I've had a couple and they are farking bullet proof, drink about 10-11l/100km open road, can get a good one for 3 grand, one of the better 4wds off road. Not the best choice if you want to do heavy work and towin, I found that they are a bit too light for that, the 2.5t tow rating is a bit optimistic, they have all the power you need but only tare at 1500kg so the load can take charge.

Other wise buy a diesel and disconnect the speedo.

[Flip]

I pay $1.24 in town and $1.28 out of town. The secret is to get a Rockgas card.

I 100% disagree about Jeeps. My best friend had one, a week apart we broke a half shaft, both doing silly things in 4WDs. His was $1600 ex USA mine was $98 and because my truck is a stage 1 V8 or a range rover with a series body it is the most expensive one they make. The bloody thing was circlipped inside his dif so it was a complete bugger to get in and out, mine took me 1 1/2 hours. He sold his Jeep and ended up with a Prado. On the same trip he did a grands worth of panel damage when we went down slab hut creek in the rain and could not see the big rocks under water.

With its 4 litre motor is was however quite quick on the road.

[rebel]

So you disagree about Jeeps because your mate broke a half shaft?:facepalm: Pop the diff cover off to get to the circlip, no worries. And check out trademe for parts, shit you can get a complete one for under a grand.
I' ve off roaded two, no dramas. Will be buying another one before the years end. In saying that with bigger tyres the rear half shafts and front UJs are the weakest link, the Wranglers have stronger axles which is a better upgrade, you can't tell me the LR axles are any different. I've been put off Land Rovers after owning a P38 Range Rover, shit I get nightmares just thinking about that pos.

[ducatilover]

I've heard a few good stories about the Jeep, but, I've worked on more of them than I've heard good stories...Electronics going after a trip to the beach, overheating, gearboxes going etc etc.
The 2.4 Turbo Toyotas ate heads like nobodies buisness, didn't help that the Toyota torque specs for them are wrong, and the disgusting intake temps due to lack of intercooler.
The Toyota 2.8 is fucking brilliance, I know of a few that have passed the half million mark now and still going "strong" (I admit, they lack in power)
The Excudo/Vitara...I cannot say enough about these wee buggers, the most common problem on the 16V model is the exhaust manifold cracking, a set of headers will get it running sweeter and it's a small price to pay. I have heaps of mates thrashing the tits off them every day as farm hacks, getting in them and revving shit out of the engines whilst cold etc etc and they are legendary. They aren't the best at towing in this bunch, but, they have more power than my fathers 1.8 Hilux, which I have proven can tow some silly shit.
Nissans, generally very good, but, do you need the extra fuel costs/RUC costs over a Vitara?
Mistsi Pajero, I will come and slap you.
Land Rover, if it's an army spec defender V8, I'm keen!

[Shadowjack]

...the most common problem on the 16V model is the exhaust manifold cracking...
I forgot, sorry, this issue cropped up on mine as well (dealt to by a friendly engineer), as was the exhaust manifold oxygen sensor (which was easily replaced). But thats in the six years and 80,000 kms that I've owned it.

[ducatilover]

I forgot, sorry, this issue cropped up on mine as well (dealt to by a friendly engineer), as was the exhaust manifold oxygen sensor (which was easily replaced). But thats in the six years and 80,000 kms that I've owned it.
Not much of a problem really....plus they run nicer with a set of headers.
The other real common fault is the RHS front speaker stops working...Oh dear me...:shit:

[Brett]

No problems.

I mine is still a dual fuel motor. I have a 70 liter petrol and 80 liter LPG tank.

I do a lot of hunting in Otago I can get gas in Alexander, Cromwell, Omarama, Tekapo, Fairly (at the tire shop). Because most places have a 9kg cylinder filling station they also sell automotive LPG.

About the only place it is a bit scarce is on the west coast of the south island, but Franz and Westport have it.

I love the stuff, its clean, easy to tune and cheap. I also have a decanting hose so I can empty a 9kg into the tank if it is really empty or vent vapor from the auto tank and transfer the liquid into car.

235181

That is a cool 4wd.

[Brett]

If you really want to go for rugged, go an old school landrover. Family in SA has had a few, shit they just wont break!
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Land-Rover/swb/auction-360922923.htm

[Brett]

This is also pretty cool
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Toyota/landcruiser/auction-363995751.htm

[jaffamont]

So you disagree about Jeeps because your mate broke a half shaft?:facepalm: Pop the diff cover off to get to the circlip, no worries. And check out trademe for parts, shit you can get a complete one for under a grand.
I' ve off roaded two, no dramas. Will be buying another one before the years end. In saying that with bigger tyres the rear half shafts and front UJs are the weakest link, the Wranglers have stronger axles which is a better upgrade, you can't tell me the LR axles are any different. I've been put off Land Rovers after owning a P38 Range Rover, shit I get nightmares just thinking about that pos.

I agree the Cherokee is in my opinion a very underated wagon. I have owned in the past and have nothing but good things to say. Of all the 4wd's I have owned and driven, I found the Cherokee the best around town. Towing was good, and not too bad offroad.
With regards to the expensive to fix comments. It is my experience that parts are pretty cheap (ebay australia). As a guide I got three brand new mounts 2 x engine and 1 x trans for less then $200.00 landed (made a huge diff). They are also very simple things to work on, and the engine is a peach. Biggest issue is that the auto's can be a bit ordinary, but usually this is electronic not mechanical (solenoids can pack up but pretty cheap fix). Yes they like a drink so can be a bit expensive to run (good on a trip though)
Have a 2.7 TDI Terrano now. Great truck and does everything I want. Slow yes, but plenty of tourque and will overtake things if need be.

[cbfb]

Thanks all.


I do a lot of hunting in Otago
235181

Lucky man! Had to leave Wanaka 3 years ago and regretted it ever since. Nice wheels btw.


So you disagree about Jeeps because your mate broke a half shaft?:facepalm: Pop the diff cover off to get to the circlip, no worries. And check out trademe for parts, shit you can get a complete one for under a grand.
I' ve off roaded two, no dramas. Will be buying another one before the years end. In saying that with bigger tyres the rear half shafts and front UJs are the weakest link, the Wranglers have stronger axles which is a better upgrade, you can't tell me the LR axles are any different. I've been put off Land Rovers after owning a P38 Range Rover, shit I get nightmares just thinking about that pos.

Thanks, a different perspective on the Jeeps. Certainly a few around. I have heard some bad reports but it's interesting to hear from someone who's had good experiences.



The Excudo/Vitara...I cannot say enough about these wee buggers

Yep I am extremely tempted to go for one of these. Would have to say it's surpassed the Terrano 2.7 TD as my favourite at the moment. 1.6L be enough? I think not probably. Only gonna be towing a small tinny (12' or so) and a trailer with shit from the garden or a bike or two (not that the Bandit will ever break down of course).


Not much of a problem really....plus they run nicer with a set of headers.
The other real common fault is the RHS front speaker stops working...Oh dear me...:shit:

How much would a set of headers set you back?

So you didn't notice the brand new set of 160w Pioneers in my workshop then ;)


I agree the Cherokee is in my opinion a very underated wagon. I have owned in the past and have nothing but good things to say. Of all the 4wd's I have owned and driven, I found the Cherokee the best around town. Towing was good, and not too bad offroad.
With regards to the expensive to fix comments. It is my experience that parts are pretty cheap (ebay australia). As a guide I got three brand new mounts 2 x engine and 1 x trans for less then $200.00 landed (made a huge diff). They are also very simple things to work on, and the engine is a peach. Biggest issue is that the auto's can be a bit ordinary, but usually this is electronic not mechanical (solenoids can pack up but pretty cheap fix). Yes they like a drink so can be a bit expensive to run (good on a trip though)
Have a 2.7 TDI Terrano now. Great truck and does everything I want. Slow yes, but plenty of tourque and will overtake things if need be.

Thanks again, maybe the Jeeps don't deserve the reputation they seem to have! Not as put off as I was before after hearing the positive side, but still leaning towards a Vitscudo.

[Smifffy]

If you really want to go for rugged, go an old school landrover. Family in SA has had a few, shit they just wont break!
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Land-Rover/swb/auction-360922923.htm

I bought a 4 cyl '79 LWB flatdeck not that many years ago. It was the single biggest mistake I have made in my life.

[Flip]

I don't mean to sound defensive but I like landrovers. I have had a few old landys the V8 one for 8 or so years now.

It came with diff locks. I put the BRG Muds on it, I put parabolic springs with a 2" lift and new Old Man Emu shocks. I have recored the radiator and put the highest density one available in. I also changed the high ratio gear set to the std range rover gear set which is easy to do because you just have to change 2 gears in the back of the transfer case, it used to rev its nuts off at 90kph not it will do 140kph if you are brave. I put the LPG in it. I changed the shielded army distributor (it was a radio truck) to the std (water proofed) range rover one. I have extended all the breathers into the area behind the dash. It has been fitted with a CB and CD. I also fitted large double silencers to the exhaust.

OK its noisy on the road but I have done about 60,000 in the last 8 years all on hunting trips. I broke a half shaft on one trip and it has once broken down because the points fixing screw came loose.
I have crossed water up to the bottom of the windscreen. It has carried a few pigs and more deer out of the bush than I can remember.

I use it for hunting, I do pest work for my employer, it has a folding seat well above and behind the front ones. I remove the top of the doors and the windscreen and often shoot from the drivers seat. Because its a petrol motor and it has a very quiet exhaust you can drive along and not disturb game until it is too late for them.
See the pic.

Because it is big and open in the back it is a very use full vehicle. A few of my mates who have tough trucks with 36" tires like when I bring this vehicle because it is one of the few than can pull them out. Because it is aluminum it is a relatively light vehicle 1600kg, and for a landy it has wide wheels so it crosses sand and soft stuff very well. I pulled the back fuel tank out because I kept bashing it in, but it still has 150 liters of fuel on board so you can go anywhere in NZ.

I almost brought a new Defender flat deck last year but the wind screens are bonded in and a new one did not offer any advantages other than a new diesel motor and better road manners. There is nothing I can't fix on this vehicle which is a very important feature to me. It has 3 fuel systems LPG and the 2 petrol pumps/filters are still connected up. I will some day change the high ratio to the middle one of the 3 available as it drives like a 3 speed with a overdrive. I will also spend a few dollars and replace the heads with some new ones from a Rover 3.5 car which is worth 30hp espcially on LPG. With the very soft parabolic springs it drives a bit like a cross between the QE2 and a loaded fuel tanker, but it is still a lot better road mannered than all my mates vehicles with 36" tyres.


235256

[cbfb]

235256

Nice! Probably not too comfortable for commuting though.

[Flip]

Comfortable is not some thing that enters into the equation. My wife won't drive it. It's so high she can't easily get into it. It had a step but it was torn off by some plonker in a S7 BMW is the Cromwell supermarket car park. Several times while waiting for her after work at the Press in Chch in summer with the soft top rolled up groups of drunk young women have climbed in and asked where we are going. My wife who is a very stylish petite woman has seen them off with just a look of death.

[cbfb]

Just wanted to say, thanks all for your help & advice.

Bought myself a 99 Grand Vitara (2L petrol manual) yesterday. Good condition for its age/ks. Paid a bit more than they're valued at but bugger all of them around and this one looks mint so thought fuck it will go for that.