Demerit points hiked for unlicensed vehicles

[Bald Eagle]

Ok

Noises are being made in regards protest action, and I for one am 100% ready to get involved and bring all resources possible to bear on this issue

As far as I am concerened, with the car, the 3 bikes I have, the bike my fiance has, we pay enough to justify being able to park the vehicles that we are not actually using

Who else feels it is time for afirmative action?

Count me in

[CookMySock]

What am I signing up for? Ahh who cares - I'm in. :shutup:

[oneofsix]

What are we protesting this time? Is it;
1/ the reduction in the fine? Not f'ing likely
2/ the use of demerit points for a non-safety issue (failure to pay tax)?
3/ the risk of losing your license through operating an unregistered vehicle?
4/ having to pay multiple, over the top registrations when you own more than one vehicle?
5/ the lack of a transferable registration system whereby you pay one registration fee that you can then transfer to which ever of the vehicles you own that you wish to use?
6/ The ACC levy again?
7/ something else?

[Bald Eagle]

6 out 7 , a pretty good score there.

[CookMySock]

Why not just tell them to stick their rego up their arse? If a group of 2-300 people did this and it got in the media, things could go really bad for them. :killingme

No joke! We might just start off a huge wave of civil disobedience. :woohoo:

The reality is, there will be FAR more people than 2-300 ALREADY with their rego on hold - we just have to get them together (anonymously) in a group and say so loudly and publicly.

[oneofsix]

Why not just tell them to stick their rego up their arse? If a group of 2-300 people did this and it got in the media, things could go really bad for them. :killingme

No joke! We might just start off a huge wave of civil disobedience. :woohoo:

The reality is, there will be FAR more people than 2-300 ALREADY with their rego on hold - we just have to get them together (anonymously) in a group and say so loudly and publicly.

I'm in. This using rego as a sly tax and then enforcing it like it is some sort of safety issue sucks big time.

[Bald Eagle]

What's the AA's stance? Much as we don't like their attitude to us, this affects every single member, and they are a powerful lobby group.
Greypower?

Except they appear to be firmly in the Ministers pocket.

[bogan]

Why not just tell them to stick their rego up their arse? If a group of 2-300 people did this and it got in the media, things could go really bad for them. :killingme

No joke! We might just start off a huge wave of civil disobedience. :woohoo:

The reality is, there will be FAR more people than 2-300 ALREADY with their rego on hold - we just have to get them together (anonymously) in a group and say so loudly and publicly.

Also it's around now that those of us who bought a years worth at the old rates, are being hit with the new rates. However those who want to park everywhere and don't want thousands of dollars worth of parking tickets are better of financially by just paying their BS fees. Also I can see them targeting protest action for rego checks too :shutup:

[racefactory]

Why not just tell them to stick their rego up their arse? If a group of 2-300 people did this and it got in the media, things could go really bad for them. :killingme

No joke! We might just start off a huge wave of civil disobedience. :woohoo:

The reality is, there will be FAR more people than 2-300 ALREADY with their rego on hold - we just have to get them together (anonymously) in a group and say so loudly and publicly.

I agree with this and I'm in. Where are the others with rego on hold and where do we meet then?

[CookMySock]

I agree with this and I'm in. Where are the others with rego on hold and where do we meet then?If we do this, we have to be very careful not to inadvertantly create a database that is useable by the fuzz. Has someone already done a anonymous poll? We can just reuse that.

edit: KB admin - are "anonymous" polls really anonymous? We don't want you in a position where you might be subject to some court order to release information.

There are going to be fines. I'm going to tell them to stick them up their arse as well.

Fuck them. I've had enough. :corn:

[oneofsix]

If we do this, we have to be very careful not to inadvertantly create a database that is useable by the fuzz. Has someone already done a anonymous poll? We can just reuse that.

edit: KB admin - are "anonymous" polls really anonymous? We don't want you in a position where you might be subject to some court order to release information.

There are going to be fines. I'm going to tell them to stick them up their arse as well.

Fuck them. I've had enough. :corn:

Not all supporters will have regos on hold. I don't have a rego on hold but see the unfairness of this especially for bikers. pulling me over will waste their time, sadly mine too

[StoneY]

Not all supporters will have regos on hold. I don't have a rego on hold but see the unfairness of this especially for bikers. pulling me over will waste their time, sadly mine too

Thinking it would be quite symbolic if every atendee on the protest ride removed their numberplate for the ride....but logic says the insurance risks and compliance issues may make that unwise.....

Thoughts?
Also, would this be a case of getting all we can to Welly and run on the Beehive again, or local rides within your own region all coordinated for the same day?
After all Stephen Joyce sits at the Beehive......... its him we wanna send the message to

[racefactory]

If there are good numbers I'd be willing to remove my plate. Who is going to stop a stampede of 300 bikes without plates? Just ride on as one.

[StoneY]

If there are good numbers I'd be willing to remove my plate. Who is going to stop a stampede of 300 bikes without plates? Just ride on as one.

I do worry about the consequenses of anyone who might have an incident mid pack though, imagine a 30k bike not getting its insurance covered coz no plate was displayed at the time.......

Otherwise I am all for riding my own bike plateless in protest

Might be time to open a new thread to arrang a protest on this issue

[racefactory]

I do worry about the consequenses of anyone who might have an incident mid pack though, imagine a 30k bike not getting its insurance covered coz no plate was displayed at the time.......

Otherwise I am all for riding my own bike plateless in protest

Might be time to open a new thread to arrang a protest on this issue

That's true. People with 30k bikes probably don't worry about the price of rego anyway. There are always going to be risks when standing up for something like this.

[Bald Eagle]

I

Might be time to open a new thread to arrang a protest on this issue


De ja vue time :shit::scooter:

[CookMySock]

Removing the plate is a symbolic thing guaranteed to raise eyebrows, but in the end its just a one-off stunt that doesn't really affect anyone.

Getting a thousand people together who refuse to pay their rego, and incite others to do the same is really gunna rip their ration card (a cool M$1 down the toilet.) Which I like.

[imdying]

How about some powergel delivered by home made UAV?

[oneofsix]

Removing the plate is a symbolic thing guaranteed to raise eyebrows, but in the end its just a one-off stunt that doesn't really affect anyone.

Getting a thousand people together who refuse to pay their rego, and incite others to do the same is really gunna rip their ration card (a cool M$1 down the toilet.) Which I like.

don't under-estimate the removal of the license plate, one of its big effects will make video policing of the rally harder. Tickets in the mail based on video proof your unrego'd bike was ridden at the rally will be very difficult.

[Bald Eagle]

Symbolic black ribbon over the plate, mourning the death of the freedom of transport choice.

Not a protest ride at all - it's a funeral procession.

[oneofsix]

Symbolic black ribbon over the plate, mourning the death of the freedom of transport choice.

Not a protest ride at all - it's a funeral procession.

I like that idea, its symbolism is good

[CookMySock]

I like that idea, its symbolism is goodIn the end its a weak kneed action. Hit them in the pocket for a cool $1 million and get lots of already-angry people and incite them to follow. That'll make their coffee come out their nose, if they don't like it they can read my finger. :angry:

[CookMySock]

the govt are not going to introduce any scheme which gathers them less revenue.oh yes they are

[Bald Eagle]

oh yes they did

There fixed it for you :lol:

[Max Preload]

If you really want some action you have to stop being such compliant bitches for a start. Bleating and then crumbling anyway achieves nothing except to demonstrate that you're all piss and wind.

[MrKiwi]

What's the AA's stance? Much as we don't like their attitude to us, this affects every single member, and they are a powerful lobby group.
Greypower?

Good question.

I'm advised that the AA has not discussed it at length so doesn't have a formal policy. Having said that, my understanding of the AA's position on this is that it extends a precedent set a few years back when demerits were added to GDLS and other offences (you could argue GDLS is safety related but not L plate or number plate offences or noisy exhausts which now attract 25 demerits). The AA supported GDLS demerits as being more effective than fines to encourage compliance.

While the AA has not made any public comment on this issue (that I am aware of), I would think it would consider a similar principle applies here. Given that they have already supported the principle for cars it is unlikely the AA would come to a different position for motorbikes.

Personally I am in two minds about this. I would prefer to see demerit points used solely for safety related offences but this argument was lost several years ago when officials and relevant Ministers got concerned at the ineffective message fines were becoming. I blame the boy racers - it was in response to them that started this trend...

[KapitiBoys]

Why don't they just put the fee on your licence (if you look at the ACC content as an insurance policy which it is) that way you don't pay lots of cash for the same policy ,it is unfair to have to pay for 4 when you can only claim on one.

[BMWST?]

Why don't they just put the fee on your licence (if you look at the ACC content as an insurance policy which it is) that way you don't pay lots of cash for the same policy ,it is unfair to have to pay for 4 when you can only claim on one.

you do realise that the one fee will increase again..there is a fixed number of motorcycle license holders so the acc levy will be divided by the number of license holders instead of double or triple that number of motorcycles.You ready for that?

[miloking]

If you really want some action you have to stop being such compliant bitches for a start. Bleating and then crumbling anyway achieves nothing except to demonstrate that you're all piss and wind.

While i totaly agree, i must admit "bleating" is at least good start if it eventualy leads to some action...

...and million times better than the brainwashed part of society that will just say "government only wants the best for everybody so we better comply and pay our share...otherwise we are bludgers"

Anyway, so what are we doing no rego plates or ribbons? (hopefuly thick ribbon to cover some digits :D)

[MSTRS]

you do realise that the one fee will increase again..there is a fixed number of motorcycle license holders so the acc levy will be divided by the number of license holders instead of double or triple that number of motorcycles.You ready for that?

The other problem with licence-based is which class do they levy? The most 'risky' is the logical one, but TPTB aren't necessarily famous for their logic. And if the most 'risky' class is one you have to hold for work, does your employer pay? Why would they want to cover your private motoring?

[Swoop]

Anyway, so what are we doing no rego plates or ribbons? (hopefuly thick ribbon to cover some digits :D)
A very wide ribbon that totally obscures the plate would be sensible. "We" are still keeping the plate on the bike, but making a statement of protest. Perhaps a black armband as well, to emphasise the point?

[BMWST?]

A very wide ribbon that totally obscures the plate would be sensible. "We" are still keeping the plate on the bike, but making a statement of protest. Perhaps a black armband as well, to emphasise the point?

black armbands would NOT work so well for most(already wearing black)
Why the fuss with plates.rego not required for insurance,just a wof.so all you have to do is still have the wof????

[CookMySock]

If you really want some action you have to stop being such compliant bitches for a start. Bleating and then crumbling anyway achieves nothing except to demonstrate that you're all piss and wind.This guy gets it.

Hit them in the pocket. Hard.

[sportsbikesrock]

Demerits won't stop the re-offenders who don't give a toss and keep buying hundred dollar bombs off tard me each time the old one gets impounded. They don't have money and obviously will not pay anyway and so it won't stop the problem. How is this helping anything?

All it really does is screw everyone else who is struggling to get by and would pay if they could, but have to wait for two weeks pay to pay for the expensive bullshit.

The beehive reminds me of a monkey enclosure at a zoo, if it wasn't so serious it would make for great entertainment.....
My 2c, rant over.....:shutup:

[Ocean1]

Symbolic black ribbon over the plate, mourning the death of the freedom of transport choice.

Not to mention the loss of freedom denoted by the introduction of plate recognition systems.


I may never wash my registration plate again.

[MrKiwi]

Not to mention the loss of freedom denoted by the introduction of plate recognition systems.


I may never wash my registration plate again.

What freedom:facepalm:, they have plate recognition technology now and we have a plate on the back of our bikes, am I missing something here?

[Pixie]

I do worry about the consequenses of anyone who might have an incident mid pack though, imagine a 30k bike not getting its insurance covered coz no plate was displayed at the time.......

Otherwise I am all for riding my own bike plateless in protest

Might be time to open a new thread to arrang a protest on this issue

Reverse the plate so the reflective side is to the plate holder

[Ocean1]

What freedom:facepalm:, they have plate recognition technology now and we have a plate on the back of our bikes, am I missing something here?

They've got police officers supposedly specifically trained in observation to investigate specific crimes.

Computerised full-depth harvesting of data is a breach of your privacy.

If you can't understand that then ask yourself what the natural expansion of use of the technology is. Use your imagination. When you start to feel uncomfortable then ask yourself at what point could you have defined where they steped over the line.

[miloking]

They've got police officers supposedly specifically trained in observation to investigate specific crimes.

Computerised full-depth harvesting of data is a breach of your privacy.

If you can't understand that then ask yourself what the natural expansion of use of the technology is. Use your imagination. When you start to feel uncomfortable then ask yourself at what point could you have defined where they steped over the line.

"they" have been "over the line" from day one.....we have been always just peasants that need to be controlled, and technology is just more advanced whip and shackles.

Pay your tithing dues or god/king will be angry!

Edit: (actualy i wish it was just tithe of 10% like back then...now its more like 50% dues, i guess greed does grow exponentialy...)

[CookMySock]

"they" have been "over the line" from day one.....we have been always just peasants that need to be controlled, and technology is just more advanced whip and shackles.

Pay your tithing dues or god/king will be angry!

Edit: (actualy i wish it was just tithe of 10% like back then...now its more like 50% dues, i guess greed does grow exponentialy...)It has always been about the kings income, or rather the king making your income, his.

Tell them to stick it.

[miloking]

It has always been about the kings income, or rather the king making your income, his.

Tell them to stick it.

Unfortunately its no longer that simple, because "our" king also has to pay his dues to the big king in US of A, who then has to collect all the money from everywhere for the "people" that acutaly run this planet....

...just why they need more & more money is something i will never understand, i mean they already own everything anyway and there is only so much kaviar one person can eat....and so much coke one can snort off hookers ass...

[MrKiwi]

I think this thread has lost the plot a bit so I'll leave you to your thoughts...:bye:

[CookMySock]

Unfortunately its no longer that simple, because "our" king also has to pay his dues to the big king in US of A, who then has to collect all the money from everywhere for the "people" that acutaly run this planet....

...just why they need more & more money is something i will never understand, i mean they already own everything anyway and there is only so much kaviar one person can eat....and so much coke one can snort off hookers ass...Well, lucky THEIR problem isn't OUR problem ay? :corn:

I never agreed to pay any bitch anything.

Tell them to stick it. :bye:

[StoneY]

I think this thread has lost the plot a bit so I'll leave you to your thoughts...:bye:

I agree, its one thing to have discussion on the issue, another to insanely rant about kings and other irrelevant drivel

The issues, the focussed and only issues worthy protesting in these law changes (other than what we already know in regards the insane cost of rego/acc fee's which has been done to death) is demrits for non registrationor riding a bike on exemption, and surrendering plates while on hold

Thats it

Ranting about the kings and USofA tax collectors is so far off topic it is why the KB scene gets largely written off as moronic insane fringe dwelling psycho's

I asked Mr Kiwi to find out for us what AA's stance is likely to be, hoping in vain we might get an ally as many AA members place vehicles on hold too...(meaning the organisation not Mr Kiwi)
He tried to engage with us and gets a pile of insane drivel thrown back at him

So, later in the week once I have made some more solid plans in association with various groups, a new thread will be started to SERIOUSLY deal with a course of protest action.....

Can we at least keep that thread focussed once its up?

[MSTRS]

...

Can we at least keep that thread focussed once its up?

Good luck with that - unless you have a tame Mod on hand to cull all tin-hat posts...

[Swoop]

I may never wash my registration plate again.
If the plate belongs to the "authorities", then they can come around and wash it for you.:blip:

For a protest, I like the reversed plate idea as well.




The major drawback for the authorities, is the gradual acceptance of regularly taking your numberplate off of a vehicle and putting it back on again, becomes acceptable to the population.
More people will start to think "I'll just change this plate over here...".
Another backfiring plan for "the powers that be"?

[ajturbo]

Can we at least keep that thread focussed once its up?

hahahah.. you silly man...

But on that note...

what you cooking for tea on the 7th of may?:corn:

[baptist]

Repost of figures from the Reg on hold thread.

It's not like they need the money FFS

The New Zealand Superannuation Fund reported gains on its investment nearly $2.3 billion above forecast. ACC and the EQC also experienced gains on their investments of $788 million due to strong equity markets.

Also, ACC and GSF experienced favourable changes in claims and the discount rate to calculate the present value of the future expected payments.

Those two factors resulted in a gain for ACC of more than $1 billion, $1.9 billion higher than a forecast loss of $853 million, and a gain for GST of $288 million, $144 million higher than expected.

Are you trying to tell me the government tells porkies now and again?

Think about it, they have to pay for those BMW's and other luxury perks someway, govt ministers can't be expected to mix with riffraff when they travel...:facepalm::mad: that would not be fair

[riffer]

Careful with the not washing the plate thing though... chances are TPTB will introduce laws making it a demerit-inducing offence to have the numbers on the plate obscured FOR ANY REASON.

[oneofsix]

Careful with the not washing the plate thing though... chances are TPTB will introduce laws making it a demerit-inducing offence to have the numbers on the plate obscured FOR ANY REASON.

It is already an offence and a trick well known to the police to have an obscured plate, but funny now they don't seem to hassle those cars (usually 4wd) with a rack of bicycles obscuring their plates or those trucks with all the black 'washed off' their plates. :blink:

[CookMySock]

It is already an offence and [....]Blah blah blah... all this "offence" shit is just another tax. It is "law" pulled out of their arse and wiped on you, for their financial gain. Where is your anger? :corn:

[oneofsix]

Blah blah blah... all this "offence" shit is just another tax. It is "law" pulled out of their arse and wiped on you, for their financial gain. Where is your anger? :corn:

couldn't find the emotion for suppressed rage :facepalm:

[bogan]

Got a protest run in various regions on the 5th of may http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/137013-Three-Strikes-Protest-Run-5-May

[CookMySock]

couldn't find the emotion for suppressed rage :facepalm:I just use :corn: That's my suppressed rage right there. Can you see visualise it? :corn:

[Luckylegs]

couldn't find the emotion for suppressed rage :facepalm:


Got a protest run in various regions on the 5th of may http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/137013-Three-Strikes-Protest-Run-5-May

There doesnt seem to beone for suppressed laughter either ???

[Luckylegs]

couldn't find the emotion for suppressed rage :facepalm:


Got a protest run in various regions on the 5th of may http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/137013-Three-Strikes-Protest-Run-5-May

There doesnt seem to beone for suppressed giggling either ???

[StoneY]

Well you lot have made some noise aint ya?

A major television network have contacted me for comment...based on the content in this thread believe it or not! As well as other sources that will be revealed when they show the piece they are intending to run...........

Personally, I pay my rego's and ride, only bike I have on hold is because its for sale
I would never run from the cops over a mere rego fine or speeding ticket

For the record:
I totally disagree with this change of rule, and BRONZ will make a statement opposing the addition of demerit points for a tax collection issue, unrelated to actual safe road use or road user safety etc.......

Will advise when likely to be aired as I don't even know what show its for yet.

[p.dath]

This feels like some bad PR coming up ...

[bogan]

This feels like some bad PR coming up ...

And we were doing so well till now? :lol:

Be intersted to see what the story's angle is. The fact that they contacted Stoney suggests it could be against the changes.

[oneofsix]

And we were doing so well till now? :lol:

Be intersted to see what the story's angle is. The fact that they contacted Stoney suggests it could be against the changes.

:yes: StoneY wouldn't be the guy to go to for just a nice alternate view if they were doing an article in support of the changes. Hope they don't try to narrow it down to a biker only issue.

[Jizah]

So are the demerit points actually in force now? I saw the proposed date of May 1 but never any confirmation.

[MrKiwi]

Well you lot have made some noise aint ya?

A major television network have contacted me for comment...based on the content in this thread believe it or not! As well as other sources that will be revealed when they show the piece they are intending to run...........

Personally, I pay my rego's and ride, only bike I have on hold is because its for sale
I would never run from the cops over a mere rego fine or speeding ticket

For the record:
I totally disagree with this change of rule, and BRONZ will make a statement opposing the addition of demerit points for a tax collection issue, unrelated to actual safe road use or road user safety etc.......

Will advise when likely to be aired as I don't even know what show its for yet.

StoneY, missed this, did anything come of your comments to the media?

[StoneY]

StoneY, missed this, did anything come of your comments to the media?

nah meeting them today matey - will call you soon

[StoneY]

So are the demerit points actually in force now? I saw the proposed date of May 1 but never any confirmation.

Not in force yet, and yes May 1 is the expected date it will be in place as a new rule

[nosebleed]

Well you lot have made some noise aint ya?

A major television network have contacted me for comment...based on the content in this thread believe it or not! As well as other sources that will be revealed when they show the piece they are intending to run...........

Personally, I pay my rego's and ride, only bike I have on hold is because its for sale
I would never run from the cops over a mere rego fine or speeding ticket

For the record:
I totally disagree with this change of rule, and BRONZ will make a statement opposing the addition of demerit points for a tax collection issue, unrelated to actual safe road use or road user safety etc.......

Will advise when likely to be aired as I don't even know what show its for yet.

Good result. They laughed off the BIKOI (ultimately) and now that the protest has taken a movement towards having financial implications they're taking notice.

[MrKiwi]

nah meeting them today matey - will call you soon

Thanks for the call...

[StoneY]

Good result. They laughed off the BIKOI (ultimately) and now that the protest has taken a movement towards having financial implications they're taking notice.


I wouldn't say they laughed it off, I know the hike was far less than it was intended to be, I would say we were 50% successful.
I will also say, a huge spike of public goodwill was created from it too.

[oneofsix]

I wouldn't say they laughed it off, I know the hike was far less than it was intended to be, I would say we were 50% successful.
I will also say, a huge spike of public goodwill was created from it too.

I would have rated the success higher than 50%. It was pretty obvious that they were determined to do it, we were the trial group, the easy pickings, and they need to do it as a step towards making it attractive to the insurance industry. The Bikoi proved we weren't as easy as they thought, even if the French are more radical, I trust we haven't surrendered. I don't think the govt are yet comfortable that we have surrendered.
Without the Bikoi the changes to the rego enforcement would not have made a ripple as the AA rolled over to have its belly scratched and media would not have thought about bikes.

[xclued]

This sucks so much. Demerit points already stacking up to 100 too fast :nono:

[StoneY]

Watch TV1 news Monday night folks....story on this very subject supposed to air...no less then 2 KBers interviewed for the issue at hand!

[scumdog]

This sucks so much. Demerit points already stacking up to 100 too fast :nono:

So, how many times would you piss on a live electric fence before you got the message?

More than once in your case I suspect...

[bsasuper]

So, how many times would you piss on a live electric fence before you got the message?

More than once in your case I suspect...

Typical reply from someone who is narrow minded, and dosnt take circumstances into consideration.

[scumdog]

Typical reply from someone who is narrow minded, and dosnt take circumstances into consideration.


Pah, there has to be a shitload of 'circumstances' to get to 100 demerits.

Fuckin' whinging slow-learners...

[StoneY]

Pah, there has to be a shitload of 'circumstances' to get to 100 demerits.

Fuckin' whinging slow-learners...

Hehehe I am one of them man........ 29 days 15.5 hours to go till my own 'holiday' ends
Took me 23 months to break the 100 mark tho.... I put it down to having 3 1L class bikes, and my own stupidity
part of the game, I live with it and dont cry foul if I get a ticket
BUT

Adding em to a tax collection issue mate, sorry, you guys have better things to do than collect tax for JK and his mates
There is no danger or risk to others involved in not registering or letting ya rego expire....and in my case 3 bikes...how many time I have to pay that freaking levy on one body? Bah....

I generally agree with ya on most things Scummy but this issue of demerits on rego fines is just utter bollocks mate

[FJRider]

So, how many times would you piss on a live electric fence before you got the message?

More than once in your case I suspect...

I think he chose the wrong username ... Clueless may be more appropriate ... <_<

[FJRider]

Adding em to a tax collection issue mate, sorry, you guys have better things to do than collect tax for JK and his mates
There is no danger or risk to others involved in not registering or letting ya rego expire....and in my case 3 bikes...how many time I have to pay that freaking levy on one body? Bah....



Never have I seen anywhere ... that the demerits added to rego expired ... or any other infringements ... be in the cause for safety. Unless it is because (in most cases ... the vehicle has no rego because it cant pass a WOF.)

The intent I believe ... is simply revenue gathering ... so those that should pay ... DO.

And if all money that should be paid ... was ... perhaps the ACC levies may not have needed to be increased.

It seems ... only those that have tried to "shortcut" the system ... seem to be moaning about it ...

[scumdog]

I generally agree with ya on most things Scummy but this issue of demerits on rego fines is just utter bollocks mate

If the tight(broken?) arses just paid there fines the Govt wouldn't have looked at demerits..

And as far as "you guys have better things to do than collect tax for JK and his mates" goes? - we don't collect any taxes, we GIVE out paperwork, never collect anything...so $$$ or demerits it doesn't make any difference.

BTW: The only time anybody is informed of the demerits for an offence is when they get a speeding ticket...All the rest of the demerits are a 'surprise' that jumps out on you further down the track..and there's a shit-load of offences will garner demerits

And wait to see what's around the corner for drink-drivers under 20 years of age who give a reading that is under the present 'legal limit'...:shutup:

[FJRider]

And wait to see what's around the corner for drink-drivers under 20 years of age who give a reading that is under the present 'legal limit'...:shutup:

I would think that they are hoping ... there's a BUS STOP ... :killingme

[riffer]

All the rest of the demerits are a 'surprise' that jumps out on you further down the track..and there's a shit-load of offences will garner demerits

Here's the issue Tom.

Govt decides to increase the ACC component on registration by an astronomical amount.

Motorcyclists respond by puttin an increasing amount of motorcycle registrations on hold.

Income generated from relicencing (and corresponding, ACC levies) falls through the floor, to the point where they are actually getting less money than previously, while at the same time the amount of money they are forking out for motorcyclists remains more or less static.

Govt. decides this is not cool - something "has to be done" about the licensing fee issue. They speculate (without any real evidence) that the motorcyclists must be riding without registration.

They introduce demerits on unlicenced vehicles on road.

Police are charged with ensuring that more motorcycles are checked for licensing details.

So, what you've got here is a situation where a person can lose their license for a non-payment of tax.

Can you name one other example in New Zealand where a person can lose their license through accumulation of demerits due to not paying tax?

[Kickaha]

So, what you've got here is a situation where a person can lose their license for a non-payment of tax.

It is an extremely easy situation to avoid though

[axdout]

22 pages of bitching about having to abide to the law of the land. The consequences of operating the vehicle with out it being registered is some demerit points. Boohoo. Purchase the rego and avoid the points. Seems pretty straight forward to me, then again I left school in 4th form so I'm not as well educated as some of the other posters.:violin:

[FJRider]

Here's the issue Tom.

It's only an issue to those that dont pay the fees ...


Govt decides to increase the ACC component on registration by an astronomical amount.

Motorcyclists respond by puttin an increasing amount of motorcycle registrations on hold.

OR ... not re-register ... AND ... in both cases ... continue to ride on the road ...


Income generated from relicencing (and corresponding, ACC levies) falls through the floor, to the point where they are actually getting less money than previously, while at the same time the amount of money they are forking out for motorcyclists remains more or less static.

Govt. decides this is not cool - something "has to be done" about the licensing fee issue. They speculate (without any real evidence) that the motorcyclists must be riding without registration.

I guess the increasing number of motorcyclists (and car drivers) getting fined due to no rego is not real evidence ...


They introduce demerits on unlicenced vehicles on road.

Police are charged with ensuring that more motorcycles are checked for licensing details.

They always have checked ... and appropriate fines given.(At the Officers descretion) Now ... with the introduction of demerits ..... loss of licence looming ... people moan.

People always were happy (sort of :lol:) to pay the fines ... just $$$ lost ...


So, what you've got here is a situation where a person can lose their license for a non-payment of tax.

Non payment of taxes can result in losing your house ... a licence is minor by comparison ...

[StoneY]

It's only an issue to those that dont pay the fees ...

Not true, what about the guy whos collectors bike is on hold but he is heading off for a WOF so he can take it to the vintage rally next month, for which he may remove the hold?



OR ... not re-register ... AND ... in both cases ... continue to ride on the road ...

There is NO evidence in an increase of non registered bikes, I get the reports on this monthly my friend



I guess the increasing number of motorcyclists (and car drivers) getting fined due to no rego is not real evidence ...
There has been no such a rise, see above comment



They always have checked ... and appropriate fines given.(At the Officers descretion) Now ... with the introduction of demerits ..... loss of licence looming ... people moan.

The fine was appropriate, now they reduce it by 50$ but add 20 demerits, to get 20 demerits while speeding you have to be 20-25kmh over the speed limit, so yes we are moaning and rightly so


People always were happy (sort of :lol:) to pay the fines ... just $$$ lost ...

Ah but the justification given is shown under the OIA docs I have read, where one minister tells another 'the number of motorcycles now on hold has caused a shortfall in our projected revenue what can we do' the answer from the transport minister was 'Police have suggested demerits are an effective deterrent' which, there is no statistical or factual evidence AT ALL that demerits work as a deterrent, they are a punitive measure.
Add DM's for lack of WOF by all means, that's not a tax collection



Non payment of taxes can result in losing your house ... a licence is minor by comparison ...

Fair point, but again, demerits are a punitive measure and this is not appropriate use of them IMO and the opinion of many others....
I hear you about paying the fee or not using the road but I keep two bikes fully legal, only one I have on hold is being sold and sitting at TSS Red Baron....
I still see this as a direct tax collection issue and do not see why the Police should have to enforce it with demerits, risking your license over a minor tax.

I know the MSL fund is less than expected because of the trend. but what did they expect?
Hundreds of multi bike owners who used to pay all year round are now forced to be frugal with their coin, there is NOT ONE shred of evidence that an increase in non registered bikes being ridden is occurring, prove me wrong if you have the data..... most are just using one bike only now.

And again we come full circle to the fact National are trying to squeeze the next 25 years of ACC cover from one single year to make ACC attractive for sale, when they said pre election it would not be sold, and the pay as you go model WORKED perfectly fine...their plan to tripple the motorvehicle accounts income failed, we used a 'loophole' to ensure we can still eat steak as opposed to noodles and mince and we get demerit points for our troubles on an issue totally unrelated to safety


Wait till you see the guy on the news story Monday night. If conservative TV1 can see this as an injustice, well I am happy to agree with them

[riffer]

Okay... I'll elaborate further.

The government introduced extra punitive taxes on one particular part of society based on erroneous data and ideological principles.

It didn't work.

So now they are forcing the police to be their legislative agents.

If the Police start pulling over EVERY motorcyclist to check regos how long will it be before motorcyclists get sick of it.

How many times will you have to be pulled over for checks before you start considering not pulling over?

I consider it similar to the TSA in the United States.

Of course, if you obey EVERY law you don't have to be worried do you?

And being pulled over repeatedly, which tends to border on prevention of free passage (even though it's legal), to check on tax payment, does tend to continue to the erosion of mana the Police are continually facing

[StoneY]

Bugger Riffer...I run out of bling mate...........

[bogan]

Well put riffer. And in situation when us sheeple disagree with the gubbermint's plans, the way I see it we have three main options.

Get them to change it directly.
Kick up such a fuss with non compliance that they decide it needs to be changed.
Non participation.

We tried the first and while we made some progress, it isn't enough, so people are trying the others. Good on them I reckon.

[riffer]

Bugger Riffer...I run out of bling mate...........

Beer in the fridge is nice and cold by now mate.

[riffer]

Well put riffer. And in situation when us sheeple disagree with the gubbermint's plans, the way I see it we have three main options.

Get them to change it directly.
Kick up such a fuss with non compliance that they decide it needs to be changed.
Non participation.

We tried the first and while we made some progress, it isn't enough, so people are trying the others. Good on them I reckon.


Absolutely bogan. And what concerns me in particular is how some may choose the third option.

You create a law that the public won't follow. Then you turn the police into blackshirts. Sounds like a recipe for civil disobedience to me.

[StoneY]

Beer in the fridge is nice and cold by now mate.

Oooooooo...mmmmmm home brew........ raining....home brew....raining...... (looks over at coat rack to see whats there)

Might just take you up on that mate...................

[riffer]

No worries. Its just me and Nicky here or else I'd pick you up.

[Ocean1]

Okay... I'll elaborate further.

Succinct.

Entirely correct.

And blingable.

[yachtie10]

I hate to agree with Stoney and riffer but have to in this case

(except for anti national conspiracy theory that is)

[bsasuper]

Pah, there has to be a shitload of 'circumstances' to get to 100 demerits.

Fuckin' whinging slow-learners...

Thought I might get a reply like this:laugh:

It seams you have been conditioned from being in "that" job for a length of time.

You dont dont seam to get the big picture of life, anyway each to his own:laugh:

[FJRider]

Thought I might get a reply like this:laugh:

It seams you have been conditioned from being in "that" job for a length of time.

You dont dont seam to get the big picture of life, anyway each to his own:laugh:

Time you looked at the big picture through HIS windows ...

[scumdog]

Thought I might get a reply like this:laugh:

It seams you have been conditioned from being in "that" job for a length of time.

You dont dont seam to get the big picture of life, anyway each to his own:laugh:

Mwahahahaa...boom-tish!!

And THAT was perzackly the response I was expecting, well done!:woohoo::2thumbsup

[scumdog]

Motorcyclists respond by puttin an increasing amount of motorcycle registrations on hold.

Income generated from relicencing (and corresponding, ACC levies) falls through the floor, to the point where they are actually getting less money than previously, while at the same time the amount of money they are forking out for motorcyclists remains more or less static.

Govt. decides this is not cool - something "has to be done" about the licensing fee issue. They speculate (without any real evidence) that the motorcyclists must be riding without registration.

They introduce demerits on unlicenced vehicles on road.


A few comments:

This demerit-for-rego-on-hold (but not for a rego that's run out - which also has a cheaper fine -and almost guaranteed compliance fyi) is part of a shoul-be-foreseen reaction.
Note: MOTORCYCLISTS WERE NOT SPECIFICALLY TARGETTED, just in case some are thinking that....

Scanner listeners (bless their socks) will vouch for this; - over the last year or two the number of vehicles getting pulled over with 'licence exemption in place until'... (name your month and year) has gone through the roof, even the Gov't noticed it...

The Gov't could have done one of three things for those continuing to ride/drive a vehicle that has the rego on hold':
Ignored it
Whacked on a really punitive fine
Cancelled the rego of that vehicle when it was detected being used running while rego 'on hold'
Inflict demerits
Require you hand over your rego plates for the 'on hold' duration

As we know it did a combo - demerits and a slightly bigger fine than you would get if you were riding/driving with your rego ran out.

I have yet to hear any comment about the fine being half what it use to be for no rego
Or how the fine for using a vehicle while 'on hold' is only 75% of the old fine.

Tell me how y'all would expect the Gov't to react in a way that would prevent people continuing to use their vehicle while 'on hold' - and still please the plebs?:confused:

[Ocean1]

Tell me how y'all would expect the Gov't to react in a way that would prevent people continuing to use their vehicle while 'on hold' - and still please the plebs?:confused:

Give them something of value for their money?

[riffer]

Tell me how y'all would expect the Gov't to react in a way that would prevent people continuing to use their vehicle while 'on hold' - and still please the plebs?:confused:

How about some of these:



recognise that the lifting the ACC fee through the roof was a ridiculous idea, and that this was always going to happen. Reduce the ACC component back to the level where motorcycle users will relicence their bikes again.
Remove ACC levy from motor vehicle registrations COMPLETELY. Put the ACC levy on petrol and diesel instead. Rego per year becomes approx $50 per year.
Introduce a UK-style tax disc that blatantly shows that the rego has been paid. Make it a different colour for each year. You pay for the rego for the entire year, or a proportion thereof, but the rego is for the entire year. That way its obvious if you ain't paid it, and people like me avoid being pulled over for checks.
Stop trying to use HM Police as revenue enforcement agents. Let's get back to having police actually protect and serve. Unpaid regos (with a WOF) should be a warning (pay within 28 days and fine/demerits will be dropped) not a penalisable offence.

[riffer]

I'm really hot on the concept of pay for the entire year.

Reduce the cost to $50 per annum, and you pay up until 31 Dec. People can pay any time, but it will always be from the date of payment up until end of year.

If you reduce the ACC from it I don't think anyone would mind paying for the entire year.

Another possible alternative is to pay for the RIGHT TO RIDE on the road for the year. Although this is a pain for people with multiple licences I reckon it is fairer - want to drive on our roads - pay a licence. Want to ride - pay a licence.

Reduce the ACC levy out of the picture and people will be happy to pay for it IMO.

What say ye all? Would you happily pay:-


$50 per annum for right to drive that calendar year
$50 per annum (on top of right to drive) to also ride that calendar year if you want to drive and ride
$0.15 extra per litre on petrol and diesel to cover the ACC levy.

[scumdog]

How about some of these:



recognise that the lifting the ACC fee through the roof was a ridiculous idea, and that this was always going to happen. Reduce the ACC component back to the level where motorcycle users will relicence their bikes again.
Remove ACC levy from motor vehicle registrations COMPLETELY. Put the ACC levy on petrol and diesel instead. Rego per year becomes approx $50 per year.
Introduce a UK-style tax disc that blatantly shows that the rego has been paid. Make it a different colour for each year. You pay for the rego for the entire year, or a proportion thereof, but the rego is for the entire year. That way its obvious if you ain't paid it, and people like me avoid being pulled over for checks.
Stop trying to use HM Police as revenue enforcement agents. Let's get back to having police actually protect and serve. Unpaid regos (with a WOF) should be a warning (pay within 28 days and fine/demerits will be dropped) not a penalisable offence.


All great.

Now try and convince the Gov't

Oh and that last one??

Warnings-shwarmings, they only work for 'nice' people, take my word for it.

And as mentioned, while you can get a ticket for no WOF or rego you are almost certain to get a 'compliance ticket' for them - as long as the WOF is less than a month old and with the rego it MAY be as many as 3 - 4 months out of date and you could still get compliance...sort of a Claytons warning.

So no $$$ into the Gov't coffers.

No doubt certain KBers would manage to talk their way out of any compliance...<_<

Oh, and listen to the screams from the transport industry if the ACC levy went totally onto petrol & diesel..whew...:eek:

[riffer]

Oh, and listen to the screams from the transport industry if the ACC levy went totally onto petrol & diesel..whew...:eek:

You're not wrong there. I've already had that very same conversation with Chris Hipkins.

[Ocean1]

I reckon people affected by the extra Registration costs fall broadly into two groups.

Those for whom economy is a primary reason for bike ownership. And that's them fuckt, to coin a phrase they'll be gone by lunchtime. Or at least as soon as they can sell the bike. Total revenue increase? minus rather a lot.

Those who's bikes are predominantly recreational devices. These guys are the real targets of the changes, 'cause all fiscal rationalisation aside they're the ones officious sorts, (official and otherwise) get grumpy about. How dare they have disposable income. How dare they dispose of it in a manner I find offensive.

These second lot didn't come to be able to afford such toys by imprudent fiscal behavior, they'll cut their cloth to fit their budget. That means that while there may very well still be a modest suficiency of toys in the gargre the government will see no more unjust taxation now than they did before the changes. Ideally less.

Me? I pay enough tax already, I bought more bikes, but they'll never cost me a dime in registration fees.



Oh, and those officious sorts?

Big black dog up ya.

[thepom]

bang on riffer,you run for parliament cos you,d get my vote,.....fucking coppers should be ashamed of themselves......:bleh:

[Max Preload]

A few comments:

This demerit-for-rego-on-hold (but not for a rego that's run out - which also has a cheaper fine -and almost guaranteed compliance fyi) is part of a shoul-be-foreseen reaction.
Note: MOTORCYCLISTS WERE NOT SPECIFICALLY TARGETTED, just in case some are thinking that....If you're saying that there are demerits only for operating an unlicensed motor vehicle while it is on exemption from continuous licensing but not when it is simply expired, you are sadly mistaken.

Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2011 - Schedule 7 (http://legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2011/0079/latest/DLM3613751.html)
Land Transport Act 1998 No 110 - Section 242 (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1998/0110/latest/DLM3701427.html#DLM3701427)


The Gov't could have done one of three things for those continuing to ride/drive a vehicle that has the rego on hold':
Ignored it
Whacked on a really punitive fine
Cancelled the rego of that vehicle when it was detected being used running while rego 'on hold'
Inflict demerits
Require you hand over your rego plates for the 'on hold' duration

As we know it did a combo - demerits and a slightly bigger fine than you would get if you were riding/driving with your rego ran out.Plus empowering the NZTA to require you to surrender the plates if they wish... (http://legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2011/0079/latest/DLM2938344.html?search=sw_096be8ed806cb1a6_%22The+ Registrar+may+require+the+registered+person%2c+or+ the+person+acting+on+the+registered+person%E2%80%9 9s+behalf%2c+to+surrender+the+registration+plate+o r+plates+of+the+motor+vehicle+for+the+duration+of+ the+exemption.%22&p=1&sr=0)


Give them something of value for their money?Crazy talk!

[scumdog]

If you're saying that there are demerits only for operating an unlicensed motor vehicle while it is on exemption from continuous licensing but not when it is simply expired, you are sadly mistaken.

Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2011 - Schedule 7 (http://legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2011/0079/latest/DLM3613751.html)
Land Transport Act 1998 No 110 - Section 242 (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1998/0110/latest/DLM3701427.html#DLM3701427)

Plus empowering the NZTA to require you to surrender the plates if they wish... (http://legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2011/0079/latest/DLM2938344.html?search=sw_096be8ed806cb1a6_%22The+ Registrar+may+require+the+registered+person%2c+or+ the+person+acting+on+the+registered+person%E2%80%9 9s+behalf%2c+to+surrender+the+registration+plate+o r+plates+of+the+motor+vehicle+for+the+duration+of+ the+exemption.%22&p=1&sr=0)

My bad.

Shows you how many of those ticket I write out...:doh:

[bogan]

Tell me how y'all would expect the Gov't to react in a way that would prevent people continuing to use their vehicle while 'on hold' - and still please the plebs?:confused:

Implement a fair pricing system would be a bloody good start. I don't pay what I am supposed to, because what I am supposed to pay is well over twice what others are supposed to pay, who have similar 'risk factor' :sic: and road useage.

[Max Preload]

My bad.

Shows you how many of those ticket I write out...:doh:Not really. But I'll take your word for it. In any case, the NZTA apply the demerits regardless of what's entered on the ION which is really only for information purposes of the person it's issued to.

I have to say it seems to be rather the norm these days for cops to not know about the specific legislation changes and how it affects the IONs they issue. People are still getting the $400 for breach of licence conditions ones! Then the NZTA apply the demerits too! LOL

[FJRider]

I reckon people affected by the extra Registration costs fall broadly into two groups.

Those for whom economy is a primary reason for bike ownership.

Those who's bikes are predominantly recreational devices.

In reality ... aside from scooters, a small car is probably more economical than a bike.

Recreational devices ... ??? quite funny ... considering that MOST purely recreational bikes are not used on the road and are not subject to the levy. Most of the summer sunday scratchers only rego for summer anyway ...


Me? I pay enough tax already, I bought more bikes, but they'll never cost me a dime in registration fees.

Off road bike's huh ... :laugh:

[tigertim20]

They feeling a revenue loss already ?



Driving an unlicensed vehicle could soon see you banned from the road.
The fines for those driving unlicensed vehicles will be reduced and offenders instead handed demerit points, Transport Minister Steven Joyce has just announced.
He said the changes to vehicle licensing regulations will be a deterrent to those who try to dodge payment.
"We know there are people who would currently rather risk the fine than pay their licensing fees," Joyce said.

From May 1 the NZ Transport Agency could require people to surrender licence plates when putting their licensing on hold

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4849437/Demerit-points-hiked-for-unlicensed-cars
soo, bikers can get fucked by having to pay unreasonable and unfair levies, and they can get doublke fucked if they dare challenge the brainless idiots behind such ideas, and protest by not paying their rego. cunts.

[Max Preload]

In reality ... aside from scooters, a small car is probably more economical than a bike.Depends if you're having to pay for parking... and what your time is worth sitting in traffic.

[Max Preload]

soo, bikers can get fucked by having to pay unreasonable and unfair levies, and they can get doublke fucked if they dare challenge the brainless idiots behind such ideas, and protest by not paying their rego. cunts.The idea behind it is to force their will on you with you having no way to effectively challenge the morality of it. It works well in a country as apathetic as ours. The typical response is Grumble. Grumble. Pay up. Forget about it.. Nobody gets angry enough any more. More civil disobedience is needed.

I haven't paid the cunts a cent for 7 years and I won't be starting any time soon either. They can sing for it.

[FJRider]

Depends if you're having to pay for parking... and what your time is worth sitting in traffic.

Considering the cost of car tyres ... and how long they last on a small car. Most servicing costs are cheaper... and if all day parking is needed ... look around for (long-term) places near your work. Most are just too lazy to look.
Sitting in traffic is not that bad in the rain.

[axdout]

Talking and whinging= No result. A well co-ordinated attack on the sorrounding streets of eden park during every scheduled game of the rugby world cup, thus causing anarchy with all forms of transport and making the powers that be look even more spastic to international visitors than they already do= Possible reaction from government. Following what they have done in the middle east with mass congregations and rioting and shit= Gets results. (kind of last resort though). If you really cant afford multiple regos, and there are enough of you that don't like the legislation, organize the above, you will not get results any other way.:ar15:

[bogan]

Considering the cost of car tyres ... and how long they last on a small car. Most servicing costs are cheaper... and if all day parking is needed ... look around for (long-term) places near your work. Most are just too lazy to look.
Sitting in traffic is not that bad in the rain.

For us, we treat a commuter car a lot differently to a bike, the bike gets good tyres, and rode somewhat more vigorously than econmically. If you compare cheap commuter bikes like the GN or hyo250 etc, and ride them to conserve feul etc, I think it likely the bikes would come out a lot cheaper (and there are bikers who do this). But there's not nearly as much fun in that, so we spend a bit more to get bigger bikes, sticky tyres, and keep em shiny instead :D

[bogan]

Talking and whinging= No result. A well co-ordinated attack on the sorrounding streets of eden park during every scheduled game of the rugby world cup, thus causing anarchy with all forms of transport and making the powers that be look even more spastic to international visitors than they already do= Possible reaction from government. Following what they have done in the middle east with mass congregations and rioting and shit= Gets results. (kind of last resort though). If you really cant afford multiple regos, and there are enough of you that don't like the legislation, organize the above, you will not get results any other way.:ar15:

Trouble is half a dozen guys trying to block the streets then won't have any results either. Unless you have some plan to gather significant numbers?

Also, if there is enough 'talking and whinging' it may highlight the problem (for tptb) of so many unlicensed vehicle on the road, and motivate them to implement a fairer charging system. Enough 'talking and whinging' may even make the problem seem bigger than it is :shifty:

[axdout]

Trouble is half a dozen guys trying to block the streets then won't have any results either. Unless you have some plan to gather significant numbers?

Also, if there is enough 'talking and whinging' it may highlight the problem (for tptb) of so many unlicensed vehicle on the road, and motivate them to implement a fairer charging system. Enough 'talking and whinging' may even make the problem seem bigger than it is :shifty:

Of course it wouldn't work without significant numbers, but if there is really enough people that are so outraged about this, it should easily be accomplished. personally I don't see the problem with it. If you choose to have multiple toys, you should just pay the associated bills that come with them.

[FJRider]

For us, we treat a commuter car a lot differently to a bike, the bike gets good tyres, and rode somewhat more vigorously than econmically. If you compare cheap commuter bikes like the GN or hyo250 etc, and ride them to conserve feul etc, I think it likely the bikes would come out a lot cheaper (and there are bikers who do this). But there's not nearly as much fun in that, so we spend a bit more to get bigger bikes, sticky tyres, and keep em shiny instead :D

Commuter bikes are often weekend fun too ... and get better tyres, exaust systems, go-fast bits/bling ... etc than the average commute only bikes ...

Often bikes are summer only commuters. In minus 5 ...or pouring rain ... it's hard to leave home on the bike ...

[bogan]

Of course it wouldn't work without significant numbers, but if there is really enough people that are so outraged about this, it should easily be accomplished. personally I don't see the problem with it. If you choose to have multiple toys, you should just pay the associated bills that come with them.

Unfortunately apathy is a powerful adversary, organising such a thing is not as easy as you would like to think.
Who said they are toys, the current pricing system penalises any secondary form of transport. If you need a gas guzzler for transporting the kids/groceries etc, but want to have a greener or cheaper form of transport as well, you will be penalised. Surely tptb would prefer us to use lower impact transportation where possible?


Commuter bikes are often weekend fun too ... and get better tyres, exaust systems, go-fast bits/bling ... etc than the average commute only bikes ...

Often bikes are summer only commuters. In minus 5 ...or pouring rain ... it's hard to leave home on the bike ...

Exactly, using similar vehicles in different ways makes it difficult to compare mileages.

[FJRider]

Unfortunately apathy is a powerful adversary, organising such a thing is not as easy as you would like to think.
Who said they are toys, the current pricing system penalises any secondary form of transport. If you need a gas guzzler for transporting the kids/groceries etc, but want to have a greener or cheaper form of transport as well, you will be penalised. Surely tptb would prefer us to use lower impact transportation where possible?

Times are changing ... a few years back ... or less ... the "I wouldn't been seen dead in one of those" attitude prevailed ...

Now ... it's maybe ... "I might look at one of those" ...

The wallet bites ... opinions revised ... and if more people WONT ... it may be forced upon us ... by those we voted into (gave) the power of Goverment ...


Exactly, using similar vehicles in different ways makes it difficult to compare mileages.

Using the SAME vehicle in different ways makes it difficult to compare mileages too ...

[FJRider]

Trouble is half a dozen guys trying to block the streets then won't have any results either. Unless you have some plan to gather significant numbers?

A result ... but NOT the one they would be trying for ... <_<


Also, if there is enough 'talking and whinging' it may highlight the problem (for tptb) of so many unlicensed vehicle on the road, and motivate them to implement a fairer charging system. Enough 'talking and whinging' may even make the problem seem bigger than it is :shifty:

Changing Politicians' minds is like trying to tell a :Police: ... you were "only" 41 kms/hr over the limit ... :stupid:

[Latte]

I haven't paid the cunts a cent for 7 years and I won't be starting any time soon either. They can sing for it.

It'd be interesting to tally up the cost of compliance over your entire driving/riding career and compare it to how much non compliance would have cost.

I know I've been pulled over once in the last 6 years. Thats ~$3000 in compliance, vs the possbile $200 ticket and 20 demerits.

[StoneY]

I have yet to hear any comment about the fine being half what it use to be for no rego
Or how the fine for using a vehicle while 'on hold' is only 75% of the old fine.



Wow it went sown by 50$ in exchange for 20 demerits...sorry dude this does not justify the fact a punitive traffic penalty has been allocated to a TAX issue and I repeat, I have seen an OIA rleease stating 'all these motorcycles on hold have caused a drop in projected revenue'....

No other vehicle type was mentioned in the discourse between the ACC Minister and the Transport Minister.
Fact

Case rested I'm out of here

[StoneY]

Update:

The TV news story has been delayed due to Dr Smiths announcement that the levys for house holders and workplaces is going to be reduced.
They're slightly re-working it and want further comment from a few of those they interviewed.

Hopefully it will be on tomorrow, but that's pends the editors and reporters getting stuff finalized

As we all know, there is no reduction on the motor vehicle levies being announced
Funny thing is motor vehicle related claims are the smallest outgoing they have to pay out according to the annual report at less than 2% of the overall outgoings. Yet they make up about 5-6% of the income....

Lets see what spin the TV crew put on this whole situation tomorrow (if it airs when expected)

[rphenix]

And if all money that should be paid ... was ... perhaps the ACC levies may not have needed to be increased.
Doubt it! It would just mean their coffers fill a bit faster.

[5150]

I have just heard from a lady at my local VTNZ office that the government is looking at changing the law so those that put their vehicle licenses on hold will be required to hand in the number plates. These plates will be held and released back once the vehicle registration has been paid up. Are these rumors true or fabricated fantasy? :confused:

[Buyasta]

It was discussed here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/136526-Demerit-points-hiked-for-unlicensed-vehicles) a while back.

[Kornholio]

..................

http://www.ostrichheadinsand.com/images/ostrich-head-in-sand.jpg

[5150]

Cheers for that. I searched, but obviously under different heading. :Oops:

[FJRider]

As I recall ... the wording is MAY be required ... in other words ... it is STILL an option they have if they choose.

[pritch]

Hopefully they'll wake up and realise it wouldn't change anything. Although I do realise that'd be a lot to ask.

If there was a move to make us hand in plates, and if I was of a mind to ride around their half-arsed notion, I'd just put wing nuts on the moped plate. :ride:

[5150]

If it happened, i could see it becoming a logistical nightmare for the VTNZ stations. Which would again increase the costs of Regos accross the board to cover for the admin side of things associated with holding plates.

[FJRider]

And I doubt that they would be handed back. That would mean a storage issue/charge. They would be more likely destroyed, and new plates issued on re-registration. With a charge of the new plates included.

[jasonu]

And I doubt that they would be handed back. That would mean a storage issue/charge. They would be more likely destroyed, and new plates issued on re-registration. With a charge of the new plates included.

Yeah and too bad if you hand them over in Wangarei then try to reinstate in Invergiggle. It would take them a month to find and ship the plates.

[Coldrider]

Can't see them issuing a new plate for one day rego, but you never know.

[G4L4XY]

Disaster waiting to happen. Good on ya NZTA :niceone:

[FJRider]

Yeah and too bad if you hand them over in Wangarei then try to reinstate in Invergiggle. It would take them a month to find and ship the plates.


Can't see them issuing a new plate for one day rego, but you never know.


Disaster waiting to happen. Good on ya NZTA :niceone:

All reasons why they probably wont. But may be an option (automaticlly ???) for those vehicles that get those green/pink stickers roadside. Or those repeat offenders of non-registration.

I saw on an Aussie cop program ... with them taking plates off vehicles wiith false/wrong plates roadside .... Things can only get tougher here ...

[DODO``]

And I doubt that they would be handed back. That would mean a storage issue/charge. They would be more likely destroyed, and new plates issued on re-registration. With a charge of the new plates included.


they'd have to store personalised plates..?

[EJK]

We could always make copies

[FJRider]

they'd have to store personalised plates..?

You own personalised plates. But they must be assigned a vehicle. UN-assigned plates are effectivly dead plates .... If Confiscated, and destroyed ... and NOT in the system ... they could be RE-made ...

Those with plates they want to keep on their vehicle ... should be the one's taking the greasest care to see they are not taken.

[davereid]

We could always make copies

You don't need to make copies. You can go and buy duplicate plates, with the same number as you already have. The NZTA sell em.

[Subike]

You own personalised plates. But they must be assigned a vehicle. UN-assigned plates are effectivly dead plates .... If Confiscated, and destroyed ... and NOT in the system ... they could be RE-made ...

Those with plates they want to keep on their vehicle ... should be the one's taking the greasest care to see they are not taken.

you do not have to assign p plates to a vehicle
you can own them and never put them on a vehicle
they are yours

as for std plates, they are owned by the state and can be recalled at anytime if they wish

the logistics of this proposal is so crazy, it would be impracticable to work

to fuck the system, all it would need to happen is for you to put your vehicle on hold on friday, hand in the plates, then reg it on monday and demand them back
totally legit

If a few hundred people do this, think of it

[FJRider]

the logistics of this proposal is so crazy, it would be impracticable to work

to fuck the system, all it would need to happen is for you to put your vehicle on hold on friday, hand in the plates, then reg it on monday and demand them back
totally legit

If a few hundred people do this, think of it

I did say in my post you own the plates.

Here's the link if you havent read it ...

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/vehicle-licensing-tightened-prevent-fraud

From the link.

That’s unfair to other law-abiding motorists. Demerit points can act as a stronger deterrent than fines as repeat offenders will face the loss of their drivers licence,” says Mr Joyce.

Other steps taken include allowing the NZ Transport Agency to require people to surrender licence plates when putting their licensing on hold or to decline an application to put licensing on hold when a person has abused this right in the past.

They are allowed to require the surrrender of the licence plates (if they see fit). Not a requirement of their surrender as an automatic requirement.

[Subike]

yup fair enough trev

[scumdog]

As I recall ... the wording is MAY be required ... in other words ... it is STILL an option they have if they choose.

I can't be naffed looking through the rest of the thread BUT my understanding is that only those that repeatedly (usually those dastardly boirazirs) drive around with their rego on hold will be asked to hand their plates in - for obvious reasons.

[scumdog]

If a few hundred people do this, think of it

Hey Dave, this IS New Zealand - most of the times the population can't even organise a piss-up in a brewery...:shifty:

[FJRider]

I can't be naffed looking through the rest of the thread BUT my understanding is that only those that repeatedly (usually those dastardly boirazirs) drive around with their rego on hold will be asked to hand their plates in - for obvious reasons.

I quoted a quote from Mr Joyce on that very part in post #392 of this thread.

It was my interpretation of the change was that NZTA do have options ... for those that abuse the system, the options may not be to their liking.



Oh dear, how sad, never mind ... my heart bleeds ...

[Coldrider]

I quoted a quote from Mr Joyce on that very part in post #392 of this thread.

It was my interpretation of the change was that NZTA do have options ... for those that abuse the system, the options may not be to their liking.



Oh dear, how sad, never mind ... my heart bleeds ...when a poli opens his mouth to fix a hole, he generally creates a bigger one (with tonsils on display).

[mashman]

Is ACC expensive enough that they can compete with insurers on a level playing field yet? Every cloud has a silver lining, sometimes they add a cherry on top too. Enjoy your fruit.

[Road kill]

It is a fair place bro. Fair to who? Fair to the fucking govt, thats who.

The only time it will be fair to you or I is when we tell them to stick their rules up their arse. Until that time, they will arbitrarily continue to make rules that pull money out of your and my pockets to grease their arse with.

The quicker everyone does it the better, and if we DO all do it they can never win.

Not a crack at you mate,but good luck with that.
I own one bike,,an budget to pay the rego' in six month blocks in spite of the fact I don't agree with the system.
If we all did what you want,I'd lose my job in very short order.
Your stand united ideal may sound good to you,,but I bet your not willing to pay my bills or feed my family when it all went pear shaped because I supported you to the point of non compliance.
The cost of non compliance to myself my family and thousands of others is simply not a starter.
Sorry.

[Kornholio]

Not a crack at you mate,but good luck with that.
I own one bike,,an budget to pay the rego' in six month blocks in spite of the fact I don't agree with the system.
If we all did what you want,I'd lose my job in very short order.
Your stand united ideal may sound good to you,,but I bet your not willing to pay my bills or feed my family when it all went pear shaped because I supported you to the point of non compliance.
The cost of non compliance to myself my family and thousands of others is simply not a starter.
Sorry.

Don't worry man, the dude trying to give you advice is none other than this guy...

Ring a ding a ding ding... (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6883565/Paraglider-left-dangling-in-tree)

[The Pastor]

So we will only add demerits for safety offences. >_<

[GrayWolf]

I did say in my post you own the plates.

Here's the link if you havent read it ...

http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/vehicle-licensing-tightened-prevent-fraud

From the link.

That’s unfair to other law-abiding motorists. Demerit points can act as a stronger deterrent than fines as repeat offenders will face the loss of their drivers licence,” says Mr Joyce.

Other steps taken include allowing the NZ Transport Agency to require people to surrender licence plates when putting their licensing on hold or to decline an application to put licensing on hold when a person has abused this right in the past.

They are allowed to require the surrrender of the licence plates (if they see fit). Not a requirement of their surrender as an automatic requirement.

Really what did/does anyone expect? lets cut to the chase, there has been several KB'rs who have openly done and encourage not registering a bike. TPTB are not dumb, they will have guessed there is a good selection of recidivist non rego'ers out there... All they are doing is closing a part of the 'loophole'. I am not worried by this at all, as I am sure the vast majority of Rego paying KB'rs wont be either.

[FJRider]

So we will only add demerits for safety offences. >_<

If the rules were followed from the start ... they most likely would have. The numbers that are known to have attempted to not register their vehicle ... and still ride/drive ... will pay the price when caught.

The ability to put a vehicle on hold will be removed. (as well as fines and demerits)

[BoristheBiter]

Really what did/does anyone expect? lets cut to the chase, there has been several KB'rs who have openly done and encourage not registering a bike. TPTB are not dumb, they will have guessed there is a good selection of recidivist non rego'ers out there... All they are doing is closing a part of the 'loophole'. I am not worried by this at all, as I am sure the vast majority of Rego paying KB'rs wont be either.

My diesel rego are just as high as my bikes so to think that TPTB really care about a few bike regos on hold is being a bit precious.
They are targeting the even bigger number of cars that are on hold or have the wrong rego as to avoid higher fees.

[GrayWolf]

My diesel rego are just as high as my bikes so to think that TPTB really care about a few bike regos on hold is being a bit precious.
They are targeting the even bigger number of cars that are on hold or have the wrong rego as to avoid higher fees.

If youd read my post I said recidivist rego non payers, I just pointed out (as this is a bike forum, not a diesel forum) that there are several riders who openly encourage and do, ride without paying... Precious? just call me Gollum son.:bleh::bleh::bleh:

[Conquiztador]

If youd read my post I said recidivist rego non payers, I just pointed out (as this is a bike forum, not a diesel forum) that there are several riders who openly encourage and do, ride without paying... Precious? just call me Gollum son.:bleh::bleh::bleh:

It is a simple game of numbers. If there is a easy solution to get as many vehicles as possible to pay rego then that is what they will do. No discussion re morally right or wrong. It is a black and white thing; If you drive/ride on the road you must, by law, have a vehicle that has WOF/COF and rego. Comply or we will hit you hard.

[bsasuper]

Increase of points for no rego?, what a great idea.Remember that anyone who thinks its sticking it to the government by driving unlicensed, is giving the middle digit to everyone else who pays rego too.They are driving around, maybe past the school that my kids go to, maybe past me every day, and if they have a accident the people who pay rego have to cover his ACC costs:mad:, no rego goes hand in hand with no WOF, hence why I dont want to see these vehicles driving past any schools etc.

[Ocean1]

Remember that anyone who thinks its sticking it to the government by driving unlicensed, is giving the middle digit to everyone else who pays rego too.

So you AND the government are responsible for me having to pay several thousand dollars in vehicle licenceing costs a year?


Fuck you too Jack.

[bogan]

Increase of points for no rego?, what a great idea.Remember that anyone who thinks its sticking it to the government by driving unlicensed, is giving the middle digit to everyone else who pays rego too.They are driving around, maybe past the school that my kids go to, maybe past me every day, and if they have a accident the people who pay rego have to cover his ACC costs:mad:, no rego goes hand in hand with no WOF, hence why I dont want to see these vehicles driving past any schools etc.

And some of those people riding around without rego, are those who fought pretty hard against the increases, maybe their work actually got you a cheaper rego, who knows eh!

[Swoop]

...sticking it to the government by driving unlicensed, is giving the middle digit to everyone else who pays rego too. and if they have a accident the people who pay rego have to cover his ACC costs:mad:, no rego goes hand in hand with no WOF, hence why I dont want to see these vehicles driving past any schools etc.
You are confusing "unlicensed" with un-registered. If unregistered road users don't have an accident then your panties will not become twisted. Or will they?
Please remember that ACC isn't broke. Their propaganda ministry would have you believe otherwise, however.

[mossy1200]

Here we go again 10% are happy to let 90% pay for them and come up with unregistered users that dont crash dont cost meaning registered users that dont crash fund unregistered users that do crash. If only that 10% that dont pay stood up and signed away their right to medical care and income while not able to work.
The only user I feel bad for is the one that has several bikes and can only ride one at a time. If we payed acc on our licence rather than our bikes idd be happy. LOBY FOR THAT perhaps.
If you lose your licence by swapping plates or riding while registration on hold thats bad luck. If your doing it and complain about random checks on motorcyclists as a minority group you choose to do it and getting caught is your problem.

[Ocean1]

LOBY FOR THAT perhaps.


Wot, pay less?

Fair value for yer dollar isn't the issue, dude. When has any government altered tax systems to gather less revenue?

They'll wring their hands and tweak the numbers a bit, and I'll bet you a pound to a pinch of shit the ones who'll end up paying more won't be the ones spending it, and it sure as fuck won't be the ones that don't have the wherewithall to pay for it.

[pritch]

The only user I feel bad for is the one that has several bikes and can only ride one at a time. .

That point has already been well made. The official response was words to the effect, "If we charged for just the one we wouldn't meet the budget".

[mossy1200]

Wot, pay less?

Fair value for yer dollar isn't the issue, dude. When has any government altered tax systems to gather less revenue?

They'll wring their hands and tweak the numbers a bit, and I'll bet you a pound to a pinch of shit the ones who'll end up paying more won't be the ones spending it, and it sure as fuck won't be the ones that don't have the wherewithall to pay for it.


If you dont like the system move overseas or sell your bike or take the risk that you get your licence lost. Complaining on KB about how hard done we all are isnt changing anything.

Telecom has lots of money but if I dont pay ill loose my phone connection. But if I have 3 phones in the house and one landline I pay one connection fee.

LOBY FOR LEVY ON LICENCE is the only thing I have a issue with.

[Swoop]

If you dont like the system ... take the risk that you get your licence lost.
Yes. Doing that right now.


...if I dont pay ill loose...
Genuine kiwibiker spelling.

[mossy1200]

Yes. Doing that right now.


Genuine kiwibiker spelling.

Guilty of a spelling mistake.
Not guilty of agreeing not to ride my bike then complaining about the result of getting caught.

[Swoop]

Not guilty of agreeing not to ride my bike then complaining about the result of getting caught.
Guilty of registering ONE of my vehicles' but not all of them.

[bsasuper]

And some of those people riding around without rego, are those who fought pretty hard against the increases, maybe their work actually got you a cheaper rego, who knows eh!

Not if they have a accident and it costs $200,000 to get them fixed.I would like to see an even tougher system put in place where your unregisted/unlicensed vehicle
is seized untill the rego is paid up, then you have to pay storage fee,towing fee, fine, points on licence, or just give consent to crush vehicle.

[mossy1200]

Guilty of registering ONE of my vehicles' but not all of them.

So your saying you would be better off to pay acc levy on your licence and a small road user charge on the registration of your vehicles.
I see acc as being the service providing coverage for accident and loss of earnings. To me that service applies to the person and not the vehicle seeing as you could do 30tho km on one bike or 30tho km total on 10 bikes. The acc coverage is for the user and not the vehicle.

User pays doesnt add up when it comes to acc levy side of registration.

But as the rules are at present if you go and rego hold a bike then ride it then you did so buy knowing it was against the rules and if you get caught its your own problem.

Alot of people state they dont need to look after themselves and they would rather pay the fine than the registration then complain about the reactive measures taken to combat the offence.

Statements like if you dont fall off you dont cost anything and I can get pulled over 3 times a year before I LOSE money do not help alot.
Clearly people do fall off with or without good gear and those on average with good gear most likely cause themselves reduced injury.
Clearly breaking rules effects those who dont break rules and if people would rather pay a fine than rego then the punishment for getting caught will be changed.

[bogan]

Not if they have a accident and it costs $200,000 to get them fixed.I would like to see an even tougher system put in place where your unregisted vehicle
is seized untill the rego is paid up, then you have to pay storage fee,towing fee, fine, points on licence, or just give consent to crush vehicle.

Well yeh, but not all unlicened riders crash you know :rolleyes: and that 200,000k to fix him, would be offset by just a $2 reduction in your ACC levy.

I pay my ACC levy through my van rego, my entitlement probably less than half what most get due to me not having an income compensation; so yeh, I pay for my financial risk, which is more than my share of the physical risk.

[Silage]

So this discussion started over a year ago (that driving a vehicle with Reg on hold/no reg would result in a lower fine but demerits and that the license plate may have to be handed in) and after browsing all zillion posts, I am unclear if it this has passed into law.

Also, I put my 1200 Reg on hold (note is called License exemption by NZTA) 3 weeks ago with no hint of handing in the plate. Mind you I did use the online site (here (https://transact.nzta.govt.nz/transactions/LicensingExemption/entry.aspx)) so it would be quite difficult to enforce!! I don't ride ma bike when its reg is on hold and I can't see any reason to pay ACC etc when it is not being used. I have had two other bikes (XL125 and XR200) continuously on hold for over 14 years (ie renewed 14 times) as they were road legal/registered but have only been used off road and I didn't want to have to re-license them if I ever wanted to.

It would be dumb to require handing in of plates because (as mentioned above) it would create a catch22 with needing a wof before re-licensing but not being able to get a wof with no license plate. Are they really that dumb?

[swbarnett]

The cost of non compliance to myself my family and thousands of others is simply not a starter.
Sorry.
Doesn't this just say it all! Our comfort is more important to us than our freedom. Pretty soon we won't have either.

[FJRider]

So this discussion started over a year ago (that driving a vehicle with Reg on hold/no reg would result in a lower fine but demerits and that the license plate may have to be handed in) and after browsing all zillion posts, I am unclear if it this has passed into law.

Also, I put my 1200 Reg on hold (note is called License exemption by NZTA) 3 weeks ago with no hint of handing in the plate. Mind you I did use the online site (here (https://transact.nzta.govt.nz/transactions/LicensingExemption/entry.aspx)) so it would be quite difficult to enforce!! I don't ride ma bike when its reg is on hold and I can't see any reason to pay ACC etc when it is not being used. I have had two other bikes (XL125 and XR200) continuously on hold for over 14 years (ie renewed 14 times) as they were road legal/registered but have only been used off road and I didn't want to have to re-license them if I ever wanted to.

It would be dumb to require handing in of plates because (as mentioned above) it would create a catch22 with needing a wof before re-licensing but not being able to get a wof with no license plate. Are they really that dumb?

As I understand ... $150 for no Reg. (or WoF) and 20 demerits now.

As Scumdog said ... only the habitual persons caught abusing the "On Hold" system would be likely to get "asked" to hand the plates in. The point at the moment ... it is written into Legislation now ... with option of enforcement and reason easier later.

With a vehicle found with no reg or WoF ... (nor had any for some time) impounding the vehicle may be a simpler solution. And the more expensive option for those getting caught.

The more the system is abused ... the more the screws will be tightened ...

[awa355]

Increase of points for no rego?, what a great idea.Remember that anyone who thinks its sticking it to the government by driving unlicensed, is giving the middle digit to everyone else who pays rego too.They are driving around, maybe past the school that my kids go to, maybe past me every day, and if they have a accident the people who pay rego have to cover his ACC costs:mad:, no rego goes hand in hand with no WOF, hence why I dont want to see these vehicles driving past any schools etc.

Unregistered cars, themselves, rarely cause accidents. It's usually the driver who does that.

[Ocean1]

If you dont like the system move overseas or sell your bike or take the risk that you get your licence lost. Complaining on KB about how hard done we all are isnt changing anything.

You fuck off overseas. I'll just stay here and insist that no arsehole or group thereoff is going to take me for a stupid fucking mark.

I pay way above average costs in ACC levies, somewhere in the top couple of percent of private contributors, so don't tall me I'm not paying my share. If I happen to have a couple of vehicles not currently producing revenue for ACC then I'd suggest they let it slide, because if they get all tough about it they'll end up getting nothing at all.

[mossy1200]

You fuck off overseas. I'll just stay here and insist that no arsehole or group thereoff is going to take me for a stupid fucking mark.

I pay way above average costs in ACC levies, somewhere in the top couple of percent of private contributors, so don't tall me I'm not paying my share. If I happen to have a couple of vehicles not currently producing revenue for ACC then I'd suggest they let it slide, because if they get all tough about it they'll end up getting nothing at all.

Nah. I think ill stay. Im happy to pay my way so why would someone want me gone. You do what you like but dont cry about the outcome since you like to operate above the line that average Joe operates at. I just dont like the whiners that like to push limits and complain about the outcome.

[Ocean1]

You do what you like but dont cry about the outcome since you like to operate above the line that average Joe operates at.

No tears here dude. Simply pointing out that there's a limit to how many times more than average I'm prepared to pay for what, in my case amounts to substantially less service than average.

[mossy1200]

No tears here dude. Simply pointing out that there's a limit to how many times more than average I'm prepared to pay for what amounts to substantially less service than average.

I never claimed the system was good and MY opinion is since you can only ride one at a time why pay more than one acc levy seeing as the levy is for personal injury and personal income security. Being only one rider involved yet multiple charges thats "user pays more often than once". But if you go sign over a bike as not in use then get caught riding it then you cant complain. Since the $200 fine wasnt detering people then they add a larger penalty(penalty points). Maybe its the people that keep telling everyone that they break the rules that indicate the system needs be altered so the result is changed penalties.

The one thing that gets me is that when you voice an opinion on this topic always someone else needs to go all out and quote justice and liberty. You have your opinion and thats cool and I have mine. If everyone had the same opinion we wouldnt need to talk to each other.
Try lighten up a little.

Yes if I could afford to pay more than one bike rego and one car rego idd have more vehicles but I cant afford it so I dont have more bikes.
I made my choice because it was mine to make but it means I dont need worry about penalty points and $150 fines and thats the way ill play the game.
If and when I have A-more money spare or B-acc premium on licence not vehicle ill concider keeping more bikes.

[GrayWolf]

No tears here dude. Simply pointing out that there's a limit to how many times more than average I'm prepared to pay for what, in my case amounts to substantially less service than average.

What is quite possible, and is fact. When the Govt in the UK introduced the poll tax to replace 'rates' on houses they made a few law changes as well that really didnt go down well. Most highlighted one was, that the registered owner of the house was responsible for ensuring that the poll tax was paid by all people over 18 living in the property.. So you were made responsible for another person's debt. Now as I am sure those who are old enough here will likely remember the country went into civil disorder over the Poll Tax. For 2 years the system asked the individual to pay about 2/3 the amount that the old rates system set. So a house with 4 adults? Nice little earner son!!
BECAUSE (and this IS recorded fact) there were so many who refused to pay the govt actually increased the tax and openly stated it was doing so BECAUSE of the loss of revenue due to non payers.... at that point the 'paying' ones had enough.

I agree with Mossy why should I pay my Rego (even if I really dont like paying that amount) to fund the likes of you and others who WHEN they do have an accident are still getting a service they are not paying for. Just like the poll tax non payers who 'cost us nothing' Their bins were still emptied, they received sewage services, their street was cleaned, had use of public libraries etc etc,,,,

So yup if you dont want to pay your Rego? Then man up, sign a legal agreement that you absolve ACC of any costs involved in your rehab and loss of earnings.... When you are prepared to do that, which I can almost guarantee you wont. With of course a lot of 'valid reasoning' behind it. Only then are you in a justifiable position to refuse or challenge paying what we have to pay if we wish to remain 'law abiding'.
Now if you want a 'valid' reason for me paying the exorbitant amount? I am a shift worker and I work IN the public transport industry... so I need a vehicle to get to work, to allow others to travel to work.... No vehicle? certainly no buses running at 3am when I sometimes 'clock on'.

[yachtie10]

What is quite possible, and is fact. When the Govt in the UK introduced the poll tax to replace 'rates' on houses they made a few law changes as well that really didnt go down well. Most highlighted one was, that the registered owner of the house was responsible for ensuring that the poll tax was paid by all people over 18 living in the property.. So you were made responsible for another person's debt. Now as I am sure those who are old enough here will likely remember the country went into civil disorder over the Poll Tax. For 2 years the system asked the individual to pay about 2/3 the amount that the old rates system set. So a house with 4 adults? Nice little earner son!!
BECAUSE (and this IS recorded fact) there were so many who refused to pay the govt actually increased the tax and openly stated it was doing so BECAUSE of the loss of revenue due to non payers.... at that point the 'paying' ones had enough.

I agree with Mossy why should I pay my Rego (even if I really dont like paying that amount) to fund the likes of you and others who WHEN they do have an accident are still getting a service they are not paying for. Just like the poll tax non payers who 'cost us nothing' Their bins were still emptied, they received sewage services, their street was cleaned, had use of public libraries etc etc,,,,

So yup if you dont want to pay your Rego? Then man up, sign a legal agreement that you absolve ACC of any costs involved in your rehab and loss of earnings.... When you are prepared to do that, which I can almost guarantee you wont. With of course a lot of 'valid reasoning' behind it. Only then are you in a justifiable position to refuse or challenge paying what we have to pay if we wish to remain 'law abiding'.
Now if you want a 'valid' reason for me paying the exorbitant amount? I am a shift worker and I work IN the public transport industry... so I need a vehicle to get to work, to allow others to travel to work.... No vehicle? certainly no buses running at 3am when I sometimes 'clock on'.


Not sure what your on about
mainly as Ocean clearly states he pays his fair share of ACC levies on vehicles
and also your example of poll tax is ridiculous as what happened to the poll tax? It was removed after the public had had enough and got off there asses and made such a fuss it was removed
Pity Kiwis are so apathetic it will never happen in NZ

[Berries]

BECAUSE (and this IS recorded fact) there were so many who refused to pay the govt actually increased the tax and openly stated it was doing so BECAUSE of the loss of revenue due to non payers.... at that point the 'paying' ones had enough.
Ah the poll tax riots. I remember popping out a of a tube station right in to the middle of a pitched battle not even knowing there was a demonstration on. Things is, that was aimed at the general population, not some minority group that the majority couldn't care less about.

Imagine the response if all the members of KB decided to riot in the street.


So yup if you dont want to pay your Rego? Then man up, sign a legal agreement that you absolve ACC of any costs involved in your rehab and loss of earnings.... When you are prepared to do that, which I can almost guarantee you wont. With of course a lot of 'valid reasoning' behind it. Only then are you in a justifiable position to refuse or challenge paying what we have to pay if we wish to remain 'law abiding'.
I have one bike and pay my rego. I have an issue with someone who only has one bike, doesn't pay their rego and still rides it. This person is being subsidised by me if they crash. I have no problem whatsoever with someone who has two bikes putting one of them on hold and riding it.

The method of collection for ACC is wrong. If I buy a second bike my ACC costs will double. My risk of a claim has not changed at all. That is bollocks. If I ride 500km a year or 50,000km my ACC charge is the same yet my exposure has changed dramatically. ACC levy per vehicle is a simplistic method of gathering revenue that is quite clearly not right. Until it changes you will get people who think it is unfair, because it bloody well is.

[St_Gabriel]

Just for another point of view in regards to the continual argument about paying a cost on the user and not the vehicle,


Simple maths, if for saying sake there is 5000 bike owners and 8000 bikes on the road. The ACC con requires that they raise they raise $16000 to cover costs.
Current system: $20 a bike ($16000/8000 bikes)
Proposed user charge system: $32 a user ($16000/5000 users)


Why should I, as a single bike owner, subsidise owners (to the tune of a 60% increase) who wish to have a choice of bikes to ride, and don't want to pay for the privilege? Actually, now that I put it up, I would love to know what the actual cost comparison would be.


I dont know the correct answer but I know that a fuel surcharge with ACC removed from registration would not solve the problem as the more someone drives/rides, the more they would pay but the more that people drive/ride, the safer and more skilled you would expect them to be. Just look at the accident rate for trucks v's the number of kilometres travelled but under this system they would be the most penalised.

[davereid]

No tears here dude. Simply pointing out that there's a limit to how many times more than average I'm prepared to pay for what, in my case amounts to substantially less service than average.


Same view here. I pay ACC over and over and over. I even pay for people that don't work in or visit my business in case they trip over a curb outside.

If I thought that ACC on my motorcycle represented good value I would pay. But I don't think it represents value at all, and so I don't pay it.

Yes, there is the possibility of being caught, and being fined or getting demerits. But I have 3 motorcycles on the road, no registration on any of them, and have yet to get a ticket, in spite of using one for regular 100km commutes and for more than 4 years.

When they make my motorcycle $230 a year same as my car I'll pay it.

In the mean time I will factor the risk of being caught as my decider, and so far its pretty much zero.

[bogan]

Why should I, as a single bike owner, subsidise owners (to the tune of a 60% increase) who wish to have a choice of bikes to ride, and don't want to pay for the privilege? Actually, now that I put it up, I would love to know what the actual cost comparison would be.


Why should I, as a triple vehilce owner, subsidise owners (to the tune of a 300% increase) who have the same 'paper' risk as me?

And tbh, it was the motonz safety tax that tipped me over the edge. If those guys do something worthwhile with the money I might start paying a bike rego again, but I won't support an anti-motorcycle campaign paid for by motorcycle safety funds!

[St_Gabriel]

Why should I, as a triple vehilce owner, subsidise owners (to the tune of a 300% increase) who have the same 'paper' risk as me?


But the choice to own more than one bike is solely yours? If I want to ride a bike, I must own one, If I want to ride multiple bikes then that is my cross to bear. It comes as no surprise that the rego cost is in place before the purchase of multiple bikes. I have paid 3 lots of rego on vehicles (bike and two cars) before, but solved that by selling one.

There is no simple solution, every case has a down side and I am not particularly pushing any one line.

FWIW My bike is currently on hold due to not riding much in winter but had the rego not been so exorbitant, it would have remained registered all year round. WOF (which really means nothing) will be kept up to date regardless. This is my own form of protest and bike will remain on hold for 4 or 5 months.

*awaits the flaming about being a fair weather rider

[mossy1200]

But the choice to own more than one bike is solely yours? If I want to ride a bike, I must own one, If I want to ride multiple bikes then that is my cross to bear. It comes as no surprise that the rego cost is in place before the purchase of multiple bikes. I have paid 3 lots of rego on vehicles (bike and two cars) before, but solved that by selling one.

There is no simple solution, every case has a down side and I am not particularly pushing any one line.

FWIW My bike is currently on hold due to not riding much in winter but had the rego not been so exorbitant, it would have remained registered all year round. WOF (which really means nothing) will be kept up to date regardless. This is my own form of protest and bike will remain on hold for 4 or 5 months.

*awaits the flaming about being a fair weather rider


Yes but the acc content of the registration is a service providing rider injury related costs. Since there is one rider when you pay more than once its not a user pays system since there is still only one user. Also a person with a motorcycle licence but no motorcycle is free to ride a bike that he/she doesnt own and be covered cost free.

[bsasuper]

Doesn't this just say it all! Our comfort is more important to us than our freedom. Pretty soon we won't have either.

Why is that?, are zee germans coming:laugh:

[Scuba_Steve]

Why is that?, are zee germans coming:laugh:

No worse then that, America's taking over :eek5:

[mossy1200]

Mossy possible solution.

Create a new licence class called 6mx
Anyone that does not have a class 6 licence needs a 6mx licence to ride a recreational offroad bike calculated to cover the shortfall of revenue lost by one user one acc levy costs. Due to the fact there is many off road users this wouldnt be a high figure and would be the same as needing fishing licence to fish the rivers. Ok I accept some wont get one but if the punishment for riding without is loss of vehicle most will. Most that ride mx will travel with them on trailers and vans so can be checked during transit and mx parks etc. Also ownership papers based on chasis number that can be changed using 6mx licence only which will help prevent theft of unregistered bikes.

Just a idea.

[bogan]

Mossy possible solution.

Create a new licence class called 6mx
Anyone that does not have a class 6 licence needs a 6mx licence to ride a recreational offroad bike calculated to cover the shortfall of revenue lost by one user one acc levy costs. Due to the fact there is many off road users this wouldnt be a high figure and would be the same as needing fishing licence to fish the rivers. Ok I accept some wont get one but if the punishment for riding without is loss of vehicle most will. Most that ride mx will travel with them on trailers and vans so can be checked during transit and mx parks etc. Also ownership papers based on chasis number that can be changed using 6mx licence only which will help prevent theft of unregistered bikes.

Just a idea.

I'll be outa here if things ever get that draconian!

ACC is only ever going to work if people (and govt) realise levy equality is a better option than risk based levies. Risk based levies just make way for a privatised insurance system.

[GrayWolf]

Ah the poll tax riots. I remember popping out a of a tube station right in to the middle of a pitched battle not even knowing there was a demonstration on. Things is, that was aimed at the general population, not some minority group that the majority couldn't care less about.

Imagine the response if all the members of KB decided to riot in the street.


I have one bike and pay my rego. I have an issue with someone who only has one bike, doesn't pay their rego and still rides it. This person is being subsidised by me if they crash. I have no problem whatsoever with someone who has two bikes putting one of them on hold and riding it.

The method of collection for ACC is wrong. If I buy a second bike my ACC costs will double. My risk of a claim has not changed at all. That is bollocks. If I ride 500km a year or 50,000km my ACC charge is the same yet my exposure has changed dramatically. ACC levy per vehicle is a simplistic method of gathering revenue that is quite clearly not right. Until it changes you will get people who think it is unfair, because it bloody well is.

I agree 250% that the means of collecting revenue is wrong, but like any Govt, they will always find the way to extract maximum revenue from the maximum amount of people they collect from. Another damn good example is the IRD. (I overpaid $1100 in tax, my rebate? was $900. Yes they 'taxed' my rebate as income. Any other 'business' if they overcharged then deducted a percentage to keep from any overpayment? Would either be quickly out of business or in court).
However we are discussing ACC and Registration. I can accept that some people see the injustice of paying several times for 'one service'. We have 4 vehicles registered so I can feel that pain, and hey I can only drive one vehicle at a time, so why should I have to insure each individual vehicle? It's my/our choice to own 4 vehicles and we accept that it will 'cost us' for that privilege.

The reason I quoted the Poll Tax in the UK, was that Govts worldwide WILL put in place 'unjust' taxes and the only way to get them lifted once in place IS civil disorder. KB'rs taking to the street? Sadly even if every motorcyclist did, it likely would not be 'enough' bodies to make it happen. What maybe we do need is for the general M/cycling population to 'revolt' against those who allow us to carry them.
I/we also dislike intensely paying 4 lots of ACC levy for 2 people but to remain legal I don't have a choice. What I find amusing is there are several on here who obviously dislike it so much they break the law... Yet are any of them out there debating with politicians? Are they out there getting petitions signed? Or lobbying parliament? Nope, they are quite content to let others carry the load (pay) for them.

[BMWST?]

Here we go again 10% are happy to let 90% pay for them and come up with unregistered users that dont crash dont cost meaning registered users that dont crash fund unregistered users that do crash. If only that 10% that dont pay stood up and signed away their right to medical care and income while not able to work.
The only user I feel bad for is the one that has several bikes and can only ride one at a time. If we payed acc on our licence rather than our bikes idd be happy. LOBY FOR THAT perhaps.
If you lose your licence by swapping plates or riding while registration on hold thats bad luck. If your doing it and complain about random checks on motorcyclists as a minority group you choose to do it and getting caught is your problem.

al thay will do is make single vehicle owners subsidize multi vehicle owners...fixed number of bikes,and fixed number of licenses.... one is divided by the other

[mossy1200]

I'll be outa here if things ever get that draconian!

ACC is only ever going to work if people (and govt) realise levy equality is a better option than risk based levies. Risk based levies just make way for a privatised insurance system.

So your all for no acc levy on vehicles and equal acc premiums for all based on every tax payer paying a equal share. Idd go for that seeing as every person every day has a likelyhood of getting injured being sky diving,crossing the road,falling over or riding a bike but it just doesnt seem likely that will happen.

[BMWST?]

So your all for no acc levy on vehicles and equal acc premiums for all based on every tax payer paying a equal share. Idd go for that seeing as every person every day has a likelyhood of getting injured being sky diving,crossing the road,falling over or riding a bike but it just doesnt seem likely that will happen.

thats different,most of us pay an acc levy through our worlplace.The motor acc levy is seperate

[mossy1200]

thats different,most of us pay an acc levy through our worlplace.The motor acc levy is seperate

Yes but the average required could be added to your tax payed as a seperate item to cover all recreational activities outside the workplace seeing as being a passenger in a vehicle is just as dangerous as being the owner operator etc.

[Ocean1]

So your all for no acc levy on vehicles and equal acc premiums for all based on every tax payer paying a equal share.

It's what the original deal was.

I wouldn't mind massively overpaying my share of ACC levies, but they take with both hands. Not only do I pay many times my share but if and when I ever damage myself they not only fail to compensate me in proportion to my levies, or indeed even an average level but they actually pay me considerably less.

Enough. If they didn't bleed me white I'd have the wherewithall to take care of myself. As it stands they can get fucked, I'll take a leaf from their book and pay that amount that represents the least cost to me.

[BMWST?]

Yes but the average required could be added to your tax payed as a seperate item to cover all recreational activities outside the workplace seeing as being a passenger in a vehicle is just as dangerous as being the owner operator etc.


there are many ways the whole system could be reformed but momentum rules

[GrayWolf]

So your all for no acc levy on vehicles and equal acc premiums for all based on every tax payer paying a equal share. Idd go for that seeing as every person every day has a likelyhood of getting injured being sky diving,crossing the road,falling over or riding a bike but it just doesnt seem likely that will happen.


thats different,most of us pay an acc levy through our worlplace.The motor acc levy is seperate

Ahhh the motor ACC levy is 'seperate', but it goes into the general 'slush' fund for payments. Now lets look at the LARGEST user of ACC funds, SPORT injuries.. just think of the money available for ACC to fund treatment if ALL sports teams and participants actually had to pay a levy, after all there is a high risk of serious injury in most contact sports. We have seen a number of fatalities or players left disabled (even schoolchildren). I can just picture the outcry over that one being put in place. So our levy isnt just subsidising other road users or motorcyclists...

[bogan]

So your all for no acc levy on vehicles and equal acc premiums for all based on every tax payer paying a equal share. Idd go for that seeing as every person every day has a likelyhood of getting injured being sky diving,crossing the road,falling over or riding a bike but it just doesnt seem likely that will happen.

Yup, would save a bit on admin too!

[mossy1200]

Ahhh the motor ACC levy is 'seperate', but it goes into the general 'slush' fund for payments. Now lets look at the LARGEST user of ACC funds, SPORT injuries.. just think of the money available for ACC to fund treatment if ALL sports teams and participants actually had to pay a levy, after all there is a high risk of serious injury in most contact sports. We have seen a number of fatalities or players left disabled (even schoolchildren). I can just picture the outcry over that one being put in place. So our levy isnt just subsidising other road users or motorcyclists...

So the issue is acc is treating road users like insurance policy holders rather than providing their function taking into account all risks taken by every person every day. This we all knew but whats the solution??????

[FJRider]

Ahhh the motor ACC levy is 'seperate', but it goes into the general 'slush' fund for payments. Now lets look at the LARGEST user of ACC funds, SPORT injuries.. just think of the money available for ACC to fund treatment if ALL sports teams and participants actually had to pay a levy, after all there is a high risk of serious injury in most contact sports. We have seen a number of fatalities or players left disabled (even schoolchildren). I can just picture the outcry over that one being put in place. So our levy isnt just subsidising other road users or motorcyclists...

An ACC levy in ALL clubs ... regardless of activity, would be a start ....

[Jizah]

If I could somehow register my 650cc as a 600cc bike I would be infinitely happier paying for mine.

[winston]

If I could somehow register my 650cc as a 600cc bike I would be infinitely happier paying for mine.

ACC know your er6 is way more dangrs than a gsxr600 they are on to it