Should Phil Goff resign?

[shrub]

I think Labour are missing the point and Phil Goff is the wrong person to lead an effective opposition, let alone a government.

They need to look at National and follow their lead if they want any hope at regaining the treasury benches, especially at a time when we are facing a continuing recession, Christchurch is devastated and unemployment is rising. Over the last 3 years National, especially John Key have been innovative and creative in their leadership.

I look back to the jobs summit - I thought it would come up with all kinds of boring and dull strategies designed by economists and business people, but no, we got a cycle track! I love cycling off the road (the road is for motorcycles) and that was awesome because it means people can ride bicycles in really cool places.

Then we had our Dear Leader mincing down the catwalk in RWC clothing - he looked so good! And he was wearing a really cool bracelet that gave him superhuman powers - what a legend - can you imagine Clark, Shipley, Bolger etc doing that?

His joke about recovering the bodies from Pike River when it was pretty obvious that there wasn't anything to recover but ash was in bad taste though, and shows he's not that good at black humour. Hopefully his speech writers will learn from that one.

I was stoked about the BMWs - in tough times when paying rego on the bike is a challenge, the fact that you and I had the chance to co-own a brand new 7 series Bimmer was just the ticket. Pity we can't borrow it, but we can watch it drive past (not at 180 kmh though). I also liked the finance company we bought.

Now there is the plastic Waka - oh how my heart soared when I learnt of this. A massive great plastic novelty Waka that people can walk around in is the best thing ever! Better than the sillly salmon at Rakaia or the oversize carrot at Ohakune, my hope is that when the RWC is over they set it to sea and get the navy to sink it for us all to watch.

And Act and the Maori party have played a magnificent job in support. Hone's antics had me in stitches and Act's little soap opera was brilliantly scripted and well acted - better than Outrageous fortune in my book and Rodney looks so sharp these days with his hawt lady.

National have been magnificent in how they have performed. In tough and austere times we need a good laugh and unless Phil Goff stands down and hands the leadership to Rhys Darby I'll be voting National this election.

[superman]

Ahh NZ politics. So full of greatness :innocent:

[Dave Lobster]

Just imagine how fucked we'd be now if liarbour had won the last election.

[avgas]

Government.
Can't expect them to actually do anything good. And can't fire them.

[shrub]

Just imagine how fucked we'd be now if liarbour had won the last election.

Yeah, boring pack of pricks they were. And National are the biker's friend because they have turned bikes into luxury items so you and I must be rich to afford the rego.

[Swoop]

Just imagine how fucked we'd be now if liarbour had won the last election.
It's a good thing they emptied the piggybank prior to their departure. It's not as if we really need that money now.

I believe that Phill Goff is the man who really needs to stay at the helm of the labour party. It's better for the whole nation if he keeps on doing what he is doing.

[admenk]

I have to admit, if John Key had been filmed trying to murder someone live on TV and Phil Goff ran in and saved them - people would still love John Key and dislike Phil Goff. I don't know why, but Key can seem to to no wrong, even when as you rightly point out that some of his policies are dodgy to say the least. He reminds me a bit of dear old (not) Tony Blair - all fake smiles while he's shafting you.
Whatever Phil Goff does or says (and he doesn't really help himself does he !) he just won't be popular with the voters. And for that reason, he probably should go. Mind you, this close to an election, I don't think it would make much difference to the result, and that's a shame, because a strong opposition (of whatever political colour) is always needed to keep the ruling party honest (now there's an idea for a politician:innocent:)

[Dave Lobster]

Yeah, boring pack of pricks they were. And National are the biker's friend because they have turned bikes into luxury items so you and I must be rich to afford the rego.

Labour would have done it a whole lot differently, wouldn't they??

I don't fucking think so.

I'm employed, white, no children, own my own house and don't feel the need to subsidise those that don't get up at 0500 to go to work.
Labour has nothing to offer me.

[MSTRS]

Ooooh - I get it - this is irony, huh?

[sugilite]

Mark my words, when (unfortunately) national win the next election, what little of the silverware NZ has left, will be sold off, and all in the name of the Christchurch earthquake. For those with memories, national are notorious for doing what ever pleases them in their 2nd term, then promptly get turfed out in the next election. Phil Goff, nice guy, but NOT a leader, unfortunately, a brick has more charisma. (dammit)

[aprilia_RS250]

I think Labour, fundamentally what they stand for alongside Greens, Alliance and Maori party are a bunch of idiots. They don't believe in hard work, they don't believe in above average growth or a booming economy.

So the less likely they're to win the elections the happier I am.

[JimO]

Labour would have done it a whole lot differently, wouldn't they??

I don't fucking think so.

I'm employed, white, no children, own my own house and don't feel the need to subsidise those that don't get up at 0500 to go to work.
Labour has nothing to offer me.

your the reason this country is fucked, selfish prick LoL

[shrub]

Labour would have done it a whole lot differently, wouldn't they??

I don't fucking think so.

I'm employed, white, no children, own my own house and don't feel the need to subsidise those that don't get up at 0500 to go to work.
Labour has nothing to offer me.

Hell, are you sure you're not a Labour supporter? You're miserable, whine a lot and have NO sense of humour so are probably dull as Goff. And you're white. So soon after summer I'd expect you to have a bit of colour, so you probably never leave your computer and get out in the sun which suggests you're pretty boring with it. No, you're definately a Labour supporter.

[Toaster]

Who is Phil Goff?

I think the flanel I wipe my kids face with after dinner would be a more effective MP.

[sugilite]

Who is Phil Goff?

I think the flanel I wipe my kids face with after dinner would be a more effective MP.

Thats simply snot true!

[shrub]

I think Labour, fundamentally what they stand for alongside Greens, Alliance and Maori party are a bunch of idiots. They don't believe in hard work, they don't believe in above average growth or a booming economy.

So the less likely they're to win the elections the happier I am.

I don't think National believe in above average growth or a booming economy either. People talk about it, but it's like Santa Claus and God - show me some solid and measurable evidence that such things can exist before you expect me to believe in them. Show me strategies that might lead to economic growth and I'd probably be willing to believe, but novelty plastic wakas and cycle tracks don't make for a convincing argument.

But I do believe in hard work - only way I get to pay my bike rego.

[mashman]

:rofl: so you're saying that if Phil Goff and John Key swapped party leadership jobs for the next 18 months (ass hat figure), Labour would get back into power? :killingme

[shrub]

:rofl: so you're saying that if Phil Goff and John Key swapped party leadership jobs for the next 18 months (ass hat figure), Labour would get back into power? :killingme

Probably. It seems the main reason National won the last election was because everyone was sick of Helen Clark because she was ugly whereas John Key had a nice smile. And he had lots of money. Nobody seems to be all that interested in boring stuff like policies, evidenced by the way nobody here seems to actually know much about the different parties policies, so they're wasting their time pissing around with policies when they would be better learning how to amuse us.

Rodney Hide was good at that - I reckon the only reason Act are in parliament is because he did dancing with the stars because their policies are as logical as believing that cracking down on speeding and drink driving are by far the best ways to reduce the road toll and road user attitude and skill is not worth worrying about.

That's where I think Rhys Darby would be ideal - he has a nice smile and lots of money and he's even funnier than John Key. Billy Connolly would be better still, he's really funny and has truckloads of money. Crap smile though.

[admenk]

I hate to say it but people havn't been interested in policies for years - it's all about image and public perception. We can't vote based on knowledge anymore, in the same way we can't watch TV that is informative and requires us to think, or have a conversation that doesn't end with "like yer know".
If we all actually sat down and studied it properly, we'd be horrified at what we let these people get away with in our name.

[Swoop]

but novelty plastic wakas
I was initially informed that this waka was going to be a giant inflatable thingy, like you would see in a swimming pool.
"Brilliant idea!" says I. Instead of filling it with air, we could fill it with helium and float it around the sky like an airship!
Now that would be a marketing ploy that would attract a bit of international coverage.
But no. The bloody national party just goes with the billy-basic floating on water type. Pathetic.

[shrub]

I hate to say it but people hanvn't been interested in policies for years - it's all about image and public perception. We can't vote based on knowledge anymore, in the same way we can't watch TV that is informative and requires us to think, or have a conversation that doesn't end with "like yer know".
If we all actually sat down and studied it properly, we'd be horrified at what we let these people get away with in our name.

Sadly you're right. I can access the policies of every political party from my desk without leaving my office, whereas as recently as 1996 election I had to phone all the major parties to get them to send me stuff to read so I could make the best voting decision, yet nobody gives a shit. People vote for National because their mates at the pub think it's the manly thing to do and they vote for Labour because their friends at the cafe think it's the right thing to do. Or they voted for Labour or National because it's time to give the other guys a go, they got a bigger tax cut or because the party spin doctors told them that National are good for business and Labour are good for the people.

That's why I think the Labour party needs to hire Rhys Darby to be the leader. Or if he can't do it, a woman with great knockers or a former All Black.

[shrub]

I was initially informed that this waka was going to be a giant inflatable thingy, like you would see in a swimming pool.
"Brilliant idea!" says I. Instead of filling it with air, we could fill it with helium and float it around the sky like an airship!
Now that would be a marketing ploy that would attract a bit of international coverage.
But no. The bloody national party just goes with the billy-basic floating on water type. Pathetic.

I reckon National would have done that if the Squawks or Macchis could still fly, that way we could have had the Air Force shoot it down. It seems that the fact that they announce a plastic ground waka at the same time as announcing they were giving the A4s to museums is a little too much of a coincidence.

Imagine if John Key and Bill English went up in a Macchi or TA4 and got to fire the guns! Man, that would have been awesome!

[Bald Eagle]

Or if he can't do it, a former All Black with great knockers .

There fixed it for ya.

[shrub]

There fixed it for ya.

yeah, that works. Rodney Hide used to have great knockers, but he wasn't a former all black.

[jazfender]

they should all resign.

[Delerium]

I reckon National would have done that if the Squawks or Macchis could still fly, that way we could have had the Air Force shoot it down. It seems that the fact that they announce a plastic ground waka at the same time as announcing they were giving the A4s to museums is a little too much of a coincidence.

Imagine if John Key and Bill English went up in a Macchi or TA4 and got to fire the guns! Man, that would have been awesome!

Fire them at eachother?

[Pussy]

Goff wouldn't know a train was up him till it blew it's whistle

[AllanB]

On a global level NZ are doing OK. For now ........ regardless of who is in charge.

I still want to know from Mr Cullen where the 8 billion surplus he wanked on about disappeared to in the 12 months prior to the last election. I personally got nothing out of 9 years of labour. I have received a tax cut from National - very appreciated as it helped pay for my motorcycle registration ....... :facepalm:

IMO Phil picked the wrong time to accept leadership of the party - it was doomed last election, predictably this one as well and the time to be a opposition leader will be 2015. Shame really as as a person I think he is probably a pretty straight up and nice fella. Gawd knows why he is in politics if I'm correct!

[SPman]

..and the time to be a opposition leader will be 2015.
If Key and his cronies get back in, there won't be anything left to govern in 2015.
Again, if people really took an interest in the way politics and government is carried out in this country, they'd be appalled - but - they'd rather watch Dancing with the stars than take any concern in their future!
Goffs a nice chap but frigging useless as a leader - a bit like Bill Rowling.
Also he's old guard - too tied up with the 80's-90's Labour party.

[oldrider]

I think Labour are missing the point and Phil Goff is the wrong person to lead an effective opposition, let alone a government.

They need to look at National and follow their lead if they want any hope at regaining the treasury benches, especially at a time when we are facing a continuing recession, Christchurch is devastated and unemployment is rising. Over the last 3 years National, especially John Key have been innovative and creative in their leadership.

I look back to the jobs summit - I thought it would come up with all kinds of boring and dull strategies designed by economists and business people, but no, we got a cycle track! I love cycling off the road (the road is for motorcycles) and that was awesome because it means people can ride bicycles in really cool places.

Then we had our Dear Leader mincing down the catwalk in RWC clothing - he looked so good! And he was wearing a really cool bracelet that gave him superhuman powers - what a legend - can you imagine Clark, Shipley, Bolger etc doing that?

His joke about recovering the bodies from Pike River when it was pretty obvious that there wasn't anything to recover but ash was in bad taste though, and shows he's not that good at black humour. Hopefully his speech writers will learn from that one.

I was stoked about the BMWs - in tough times when paying rego on the bike is a challenge, the fact that you and I had the chance to co-own a brand new 7 series Bimmer was just the ticket. Pity we can't borrow it, but we can watch it drive past (not at 180 kmh though). I also liked the finance company we bought.

Now there is the plastic Waka - oh how my heart soared when I learnt of this. A massive great plastic novelty Waka that people can walk around in is the best thing ever! Better than the sillly salmon at Rakaia or the oversize carrot at Ohakune, my hope is that when the RWC is over they set it to sea and get the navy to sink it for us all to watch.

And Act and the Maori party have played a magnificent job in support. Hone's antics had me in stitches and Act's little soap opera was brilliantly scripted and well acted - better than Outrageous fortune in my book and Rodney looks so sharp these days with his hawt lady.

National have been magnificent in how they have performed. In tough and austere times we need a good laugh and unless Phil Goff stands down and hands the leadership to Rhys Darby I'll be voting National this election.

National and Labour should just come clean and form an "official" coalition, forget about the upcoming election, save the money and get on with slowly ruining the country together but out in the open for a change!

There will not be any difference in the outcome anyway, never has been, never will be, they just keep bleeding us until we have nothing left to give! :facepalm:
(Cynical? yes,thieving bastards? yes! True? yes! IMHO)

[shrub]

National and Labour should just come clean and form an "official" coalition, forget about the upcoming election, save the money and get on with slowly ruining the country together but out in the open for a change!

There will not be any difference in the outcome anyway, never has been, never will be, they just keep bleeding us until we have nothing left to give! :facepalm:
(Cynical? yes,thieving bastards? yes! True? yes! IMHO)


Nah, that would never work. Part of being in government is blaming everything that goes wrong on "the previous government" during the first term - take the fiscal surplus of 2007. National could have made NZ paradise on earth and probably the richest country ever if the previous government had bought back NZ rail and frittered away that fiscal surplus on bureaucrats.


On a global level NZ are doing OK. For now ........ regardless of who is in charge.

I still want to know from Mr Cullen where the 8 billion surplus he wanked on about disappeared to in the 12 months prior to the last election. I personally got nothing out of 9 years of labour. I have received a tax cut from National - very appreciated as it helped pay for my motorcycle registration ....... :facepalm:

It's pretty complex and I'm not going to explain it here because I can't be arsed and I've been down at the boozer drinking beer, but basically NZ was ridiculously in debt to foreign lenders despite having a fiscal surplus (the government earnt more than it spent). It was also only $8bn, which is bugger all and didn't warrant Cullen's glee, but without it the global crash would have been much nastier to us. The government may have spent less than they earned, but the country as a whole, especially you and me spent waaaaay more, mostly on imported toys like bikes, flat screen TVs and on big flash houses. This article (http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/speeches/4040743.html) explains it if you're interested, if you can't be arsed reading it then listen to the National spin doctors and they'll tell you what they want you to believe and everyone will be happy.

[The Stranger]

Government.
Can't expect them to actually do anything good.

The best we can hope for is that they do nothing.

[Winston001]

Ooooh - I get it - this is irony, huh?

Nah. Slightly laboured sarcasm but I gave him a bling anyway. :D

[mashman]

Probably. It seems the main reason National won the last election was because everyone was sick of Helen Clark because she was ugly whereas John Key had a nice smile. And he had lots of money. Nobody seems to be all that interested in boring stuff like policies, evidenced by the way nobody here seems to actually know much about the different parties policies, so they're wasting their time pissing around with policies when they would be better learning how to amuse us.

Rodney Hide was good at that - I reckon the only reason Act are in parliament is because he did dancing with the stars because their policies are as logical as believing that cracking down on speeding and drink driving are by far the best ways to reduce the road toll and road user attitude and skill is not worth worrying about.

That's where I think Rhys Darby would be ideal - he has a nice smile and lots of money and he's even funnier than John Key. Billy Connolly would be better still, he's really funny and has truckloads of money. Crap smile though.

It would certainly make it easier to swallow :shifty:... Import Mr Connolly, he doesn't need a dazzling smile, just a lashing of honesty, topped off with the catch phrase "and there's fuck all you can do about it". Darby couldn't deliver "and there's fuck all you can do about it" with as much venom... Helen did fine without the smile and lasted a fair few years I believe.

[shrub]

It would certainly make it easier to swallow :shifty:... Import Mr Connolly, he doesn't need a dazzling smile, just a lashing of honesty, topped off with the catch phrase "and there's fuck all you can do about it". Darby couldn't deliver "and there's fuck all you can do about it" with as much venom... Helen did fine without the smile and lasted a fair few years I believe.

I would like to see a parliament made up of some of the current funnier pollies like Rodney Hide and John Key, with Darren Hughes and Chris Carter providing a camp dimension. I was disappointed when they resigned/were sacked as they were really quite entertaining, although the thought of naked 18 year men is a little icky, I would have been much more impressed if there had been several 18 - 22 year old blonde female Swedish lingerie models wandering around naked.

I found an interesting documentary by the BBC about the 2011 NZ election on youtube.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/31FFTx6AKmU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ellipsis]

..,Jim Tuckerman for prime minister...

[MSTRS]

The best we can hope for is that they do nothing.


..,Jim Tuckerman for prime minister...

<tfhfhyghigjg>

[carbonhed]

Wah wah Wah Wah wah

Mate I feel your pain... long may it continue. Please keep us updated. :laugh:

[shrub]

Mate I feel your pain... long may it continue. Please keep us updated. :laugh:

Look at that, you discoverd that you can completely change what someone says - you must be so proud of yourself.:woohoo:

[mashman]

it happens at every level of public office


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPTiDNzUSik&feature=related

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[Smifffy]

poly ticks aye?

Its MMP that's holding NZ back.

The only person to ever enter a parliament with the right idea was Guy Fawkes.

[shrub]

poly ticks aye?

Its MMP that's holding NZ back.

Yeah, the good old days of FPP were the best! Remember Rob Muldoon? He once said that he could have an idea while he was shaving and it would be law by lunchtime. Would never happen under MMP.

[Robert Taylor]

National and Labour should just come clean and form an "official" coalition, forget about the upcoming election, save the money and get on with slowly ruining the country together but out in the open for a change!

There will not be any difference in the outcome anyway, never has been, never will be, they just keep bleeding us until we have nothing left to give! :facepalm:
(Cynical? yes,thieving bastards? yes! True? yes! IMHO)

I think they bleed us because there are so many people with their hands out thinking that the Government ( any Government ) is a cash cow. Where does the money come from? Those that work.....

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[Smifffy]

Yeah, the good old days of FPP were the best! Remember Rob Muldoon? He once said that he could have an idea while he was shaving and it would be law by lunchtime. Would never happen under MMP.

The MMP referendum was crafted very cleverly by the supporters of MMP. They effectively split the vote on the proportional representation side, by also including retaining FPP as an option.

STV IMO is the better option.

Come to think of it even if there was a perfect system out there, our politicians would still fuck it up.

[SPman]

poly ticks aye?

Its MMP that's holding NZ back.Unlike, say, the USA, where all is sweetness and light.......

[JimO]

remember the guy Shirtcliffe?? who ranted on about how bad mmp was?? i reckon he was the reason that it got in, people were sick of him

[ellipsis]

...the only thing holding NZ back is the non thinking voter...and the fuckwits that dont...fucking simple...

[JimO]

...the only thing holding NZ back is the non thinking voter...and the fuckwits that dont...fucking simple...

and the ones who vote for the maori/green/ act partys to much tail wagging dog going on imho

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[Winston001]

The only thing holding NZ back...is not being homogeneous. We can't agree with each other about anything.



Grumble grumble mumblef...

[ellipsis]

...all of the above...

[shrub]

...the only thing holding NZ back is the non thinking voter...and the fuckwits that dont...fucking simple...

Very true, but I would add that what is holding NZ back is the people who blame everyone else for their problems - rich people having too much, beneficiaries bludging my hard earned taxes, Labour for wasting money, National for lacking ideas, the Greens for being luddites who hate business, Maori for being lazy, Asians for driving badly etc etc etc.....

My life is good and getting better, and it was good and getting better under Labour. Sometimes i hit rocky patches and shit happens, but when that happens I have learned that complaining and blaming National, Labour or the prick down the road with the ugly SUV is pointless because they ain't gonna change what they're doing to look after me. The current government are halfwits and have no idea bout how to help business, just like the last lot, and probably like the next lot, so I look at the rules and the playing field and shape what I do to suit.

How well I do has nothing to do with who's in government and everything to do with what's in my head.

[oldrider]

The MMP referendum was crafted very cleverly by the supporters of MMP. They effectively split the vote on the proportional representation side, by also including retaining FPP as an option.

STV IMO is the better option.

Come to think of it even if there was a perfect system out there, our politicians would still fuck it up.

1) Right on the button!

2) Fools names and fools faces mostly seen in public places!

[jim.cox]

Come to think of it even if there was a perfect system out there, our politicians would still fuck it up.

Not so much f it up, as corrupt it for their own purposes...

[JimO]

We can't agree with each other about anything.



.

yes we can!!

[oldrider]

I think this says it all really! http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4870142/Labour-MP-leaves-list-to-gaggle-of-gays

[Swoop]

I think this says it all really! http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4870142/Labour-MP-leaves-list-to-gaggle-of-gays
Yup. He has hit the nail on the head. Gotta love West Coast honesty.
Wonder what his comment on the greens would be...

[Paul in NZ]

I think this says it all really! http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4870142/Labour-MP-leaves-list-to-gaggle-of-gays

Yup - have to agree. Nothing wrong with unionists or ghey people per say BUT too many of one and not enough of the other makes for some BAAAAD Ju ju ....

I dont know how many times its been proved but selling off companies like Telecom, power etc etc always turns to shit in such a small country. Truth is we need something between National and Labour and we need to be able to exploit some of our resources without selling everything to overseas buyers. ah - feck - buggered if I know...

[shrub]

Yup. He has hit the nail on the head. Gotta love West Coast honesty.
Wonder what his comment on the greens would be...

Nah, Labour are well behind the 8 ball - a party of drag queens doing the full Priscilla Queen of the Desert thing might give them an edge over John Key and his merry pranksters, but Dancing Queen Rodney and his canary yellow jacket is a force to be reckoned with. they tried with Chris Carter was a bit of a sideshow, but he's just a whiny old queen.

As for the Greens - boring as fuck. Metiria Turei may be a lesbian, but as far as I'm concerned lesbians that aren't drop dead gorgeous 22 year old blonde norwegian lingerie models just don't cut it. The rest are dreadfully serious and earnest and all about trying to be honest and decent and make the world a better place. FFS, no wonder they never get above 8%!

Nah, I'm still a committed Nat voter.

[Ocean1]

I think this says it all really! http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4870142/Labour-MP-leaves-list-to-gaggle-of-gays

I'm with the redneck!


As for the Greens - boring as fuck.

The local body version in Welly looks to be well capable of fucking up the national road transport plan though, they'll be well pleased with that.

[Winston001]

I dont know how many times its been proved but selling off companies like Telecom, power etc etc always turns to shit in such a small country....

Not picking on you Paul, because many people think the same, but is that actually true? When NZ Postal and Telephone Services operated, it took 6 weeks to get a new phone connection. Telecom was created...and it took 5 days. Almost instant connection today.

Electricity - 75% of generation is owned by the NZ government - you and me. Plus we own the high tension lines and the Cook Strait cable.




Of course...none of this excuses fairies and Leninists in the Labour list. A sadly skewed party.

[Ocean1]

Not picking on you Paul, because many people think the same, but is that actually true?

Monopolies. The cause of almost all of the really really bad deals you can't avoid.

Publicly owned monopolies are easy to deal with, just sell half the business to some other bastard.

The privately owned ones you need to finness. I'd just take half their business and nationalise it. Simple.

Just remains to keep a lookout for colusive pricing strategies and hang any suspects by the balls.

I keep telling you idiots, all this governing shit is easy.

[shrub]

I'm with the redneck!

Same. Always liked pick up trucks and country music. Hey, there's something National could do - get Bill English playing the Banjo. He's definitely a weak link - the guy is as boring as a well, an accountant or an engineer. Oops, sorry, I forgot you were an engineer. I take that back, he's as interesting as an engineer.

[Swoop]

Nah, Labour are well behind the 8 ball...
I have to give him even more credit. He apologised to Phil Goff for "causing trouble" but NOT for his original comments.:niceone:
Perhaps the new leader for labour?

[Jantar]

I think this says it all really! http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4870142/Labour-MP-leaves-list-to-gaggle-of-gays
And he gets in trouble for telling the truth? :facepalm:

[Ocean1]

Same. Always liked pick up trucks and country music. Hey, there's something National could do - get Bill English playing the Banjo. He's definitely a weak link - the guy is as boring as a well, an accountant or an engineer. Oops, sorry, I forgot you were an engineer. I take that back, he's as interesting as an engineer.

Reminds me of an old Irish blessing: "May no new thing arise."

Not sure I'd want to be a politician, although it sure pays better. That King thing looks a far more attractive proposition.

May you live in interesting times, dude.

[Ocean1]

And he gets in trouble for telling the truth? :facepalm:

Of course. Sorta singles him out as an outsider, unfit for the political thing, y'know?

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[Indiana_Jones]

Why is everyone that doesn't like and/or doesn't care for fags, a redneck?.....:facepalm:

-Indy

[MSTRS]

People do so love their little labels...

[pete376403]

Why are rednecks so scared of gays?

[Indiana_Jones]

disliking/hating ≠ scared....

-Indy

[oldrider]

Monopolies. The cause of almost all of the really really bad deals you can't avoid.

Publicly owned monopolies are easy to deal with, just sell half the business to some other bastard.

The privately owned ones you need to finness. I'd just take half their business and nationalise it. Simple.

Just remains to keep a lookout for colusive pricing strategies and hang any suspects by the balls.

I keep telling you idiots, all this governing shit is easy.

Case in point, ACC state monopoly, biggest rip-off around, name one satisfied customer! :facepalm:

[shrub]

Case in point, ACC state monopoly, biggest rip-off around, name one satisfied customer! :facepalm:

I could probably name several hundred thousand, but in my case about 15 years ago I fucked my back severely. At the time I was working in a white collar job and figured that a buggered back wasn't going to stop me so I kept on. Only problem was after about 10 minutes of sitting, standing or walking I was in severe pain. ACC paid for me to take a couple of months off work on 80% of a very good wage, paid for physio, paid for a new office chair and had a case manager keep an eye on things, and I was back on deck in no time.

My son binned his bike a couple of years ago and ACC paid for his physio and medical costs, my daughter came off her horse - same thing and last year I tore a muscle at the gym - self inflicted. I got immediate physio and ACC paid for that plus the ongoing and within a couple of weeks I was back at the gym.

Sure, there are always people that have been hard done by, but for every one of them there are thousands of very happy people. What's the alternative? What the Americans have? I don't think so Tim.

[shrub]

Why are rednecks so scared of gays?

I think the main reason most people are scared of gays is because they have a bit of an inkling that way themselves. Squeal little piggy...

[scott411]

Case in point, ACC state monopoly, biggest rip-off around, name one satisfied customer! :facepalm:

i am one,

I have had a broken femur, 17 dislocated shoulders, 2 ops on that shoulder, broken collarbones, wrists, thumbs, foot, and a 7 week stay in hospital with internal injuries, all covered by ACC, and all with time off work paid at 80% of my wages,

on all that time i had one claim attempt to be declined, that was for a shoulder that popped out as i rolled over in bed, and i sent them the 8 previous claim numbers and they admitted that it was still covered by an accident,

i do have a slight issue on how the goverment brings in the fees tho, ie the rego levy

[Ocean1]

Case in point, ACC state monopoly, biggest rip-off around, name one satisfied customer! :facepalm:


Sure, there are always people that have been hard done by, but for every one of them there are thousands of very happy people.

I think you're right, and compared to private insurance rates for similar cover it's bloody reasonable. But maybe John finds himself one of the hard done by. Wouldn't surprise me, he fits the profile, he's old to start with. Anyone not fitting the easy-to-use cookie cutter solution matrix often finds problems getting a fair deal from ACC. I work for myself, that proves to be a bad idea on many levels, the extra ACC costs and lower effective cover is a problem.


What's the alternative? What the Americans have? I don't think so Tim.

It's not a fair comparison. The Americans don't have an alternative, what they call health insurance is completely buried by what they call their legal system.

[Smifffy]

Goff's biggest mistake was in allowing himself to get beaten up by the media over it. Could you ever imagine Chairman Clark getting drawn into this debacle? It'd be more like:

(smile/frown/smile)"LOOK. The member concerned is entitled to his own views. He NEEDS to remember that to be EFFECTIVE in parliament he needs the SUPPORT of his colleagues. I WILL remind him of this later in the week. FRANKLY I think that you are making too much of this (insert first name of media flunkie)." (insert smile/grimace) "The FACT remains that the LABOUR PARTY promotes not just equality but SUCCESS FOR ALL NEW ZEALANDERS." (smile/frown/ look to draw Michael Cullen into the fray to mop up the stragglers).

[Winston001]

Goff's biggest mistake was in allowing himself to get beaten up by the media over it. Could you ever imagine Chairman Clark getting drawn into this debacle? It'd be more like:

(smile/frown/smile)"LOOK. The member concerned is entitled to his own views. He NEEDS to remember that to be EFFECTIVE in parliament he needs the SUPPORT of his colleagues. I WILL remind him of this later in the week. FRANKLY I think that you are making too much of this (insert first name of media flunkie)." (insert smile/grimace) "The FACT remains that the LABOUR PARTY promotes not just equality but SUCCESS FOR ALL NEW ZEALANDERS." (smile/frown/ look to draw Michael Cullen into the fray to mop up the stragglers).

Bling sent, that is very clever and spookily accurate. :2thumbsup:

[Pussy]

Smiffy.... you forgot to add that she would be doing all the above WHILST still looking like the south end of a northbound horse!.....

[shrub]

Smiffy.... you forgot to add that she would be doing all the above WHILST still looking like the south end of a northbound horse!.....

And that's one of John Key's biggest strengths - a lot of men find him really attractive and it seems a lot of people choose who they want running the country based on their looks. I reckon Labour should get Alison Mau to run for PM - she's hot, she's blonde and she's a lesbian - hell, I'd vote for her. :bleh:

Helen Clark was way too ugly to be a proper lesbian like the ones on the internet.

[MisterD]

And that's one of John Key's biggest strengths - a lot of men find him really attractive and it seems a lot of people choose who they want running the country based on their looks

Be as sarcastic as you like, but at least he puts his own photo on his billboards...

[shrub]

Be as sarcastic as you like, but at least he puts his own photo on his billboards...

Why wouldn't you if you looked as good as him?

236597

[MisterD]

Why wouldn't you if you looked as good as him?


Photoshop...oh, the irony...

[shrub]

Photoshop...oh, the irony...

Damn, you noticed. Guess what - John Key's photo is also photoshopped on his billboards and just like Helen Clark's, only not as much because he is waaay prettier. And you're not going to believe this, but he has a team of bloody clever people telling him what to wear, what to say and how to behave so he creates the right image to make voters lurve him with the lurve of baby Jesus.

Why do you think he is so incredibly popular when he has actually achieved bugger all over the last 3 years? His press secretary Kevin Taylor is a very clever man and has a very good team working with him - Lesley Hamilton is someone I have huge respect for.

Helen Clark used to have the legendary David Lewis as press secretary, and when he left you could almost watch Labour's popularity decline. They never found anyone as good and that was a big part of losing the 08 election.

Yeah, I'm a cynic. I don't believe elections are won by the best party but by the party that has the best spin doctors because most people are too lazy to read and analyse policies and want to be told who to vote for just like they want to be told what shirts to wear.

[MisterD]

Yeah, I'm a cynic.

Me too...you can teach and advise until you're blue (no pun intended) in the face though - that "naturalness" that JK has, is uncoachable. When you hear a soppy lefty like Marcus Lush raving about how "it's great how he just answers the question" you know something different's going on.

I still won't be voting for him though, my cynicism levels have reached the point that I'm voting Libz this time around.

[Usarka]

I could probably name several hundred thousand, but in my case about 15 years ago I fucked my back severely.
Sure, there are always people that have been hard done by, but for every one of them there are thousands of very happy people. What's the alternative? What the Americans have? I don't think so Tim.


i am one,

I have had a broken femur, 17 dislocated shoulders, 2 ops on that shoulder, broken collarbones, wrists, thumbs, foot, and a 7 week stay in hospital with internal injuries, all covered by ACC, and all with time off work paid at 80% of my wages,


ACC is great when a) you're young-ish AND b) your injury is tangible.

Any injuries for the elderly (it's degenerative!) and things like brain injuries though they are complete wankers.

BUT we shouldn't complain about the lack of competition because thats what nick smith is wanting us to do so they they can privatise. We should be complaining about the performance and fairness of ACC (i mean come on who hasn't been to a physio who's been prepared to make up an accident to get ACC coverage?)

[avgas]

with the lurve of baby Jesus.
My plastic manger fell out of the storage cupboard in the weekend. Does this mean somewhere........someone.................farted loudly.

What does the Church of Plastic Jesus say?

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[shrub]

My plastic manger fell out of the storage cupboard in the weekend. Does this mean somewhere........someone.................farted loudly.

What does the Church of Plastic Jesus say?

No, your cupboard door was open.

[Winston001]

....because most people are too lazy to read and analyse policies and want to be told who to vote for just like they want to be told what shirts to wear.

I think you are correct but unduely dispairing of the average Bruce and Sharon.

If you talk to the average person, no matter their educaion or background, they do worry about jobs, health, crime, and their children's education. The problem is each of these issues is complex even with only 4 million people. If we lived in villages of 500, it would be a lot simpler.

So the detail is too difficult to understand. We are also ill-served in my not so humble opinion by our government and our media. They do an appalling job of explaining debates and ideas. Everything is boiled down to sound bites or else completely side-tracked by irrelevancies.

For example, when the govt reduced adult education and two beneficiaries spoke up, those women became the focus of the media attention. Not the issue itself - of course not when you can much easily attack two women who were silly enough to have an opinion.

I was disgusted that journalists could so readily miss a serious story.

[Usarka]

Journalists report what the public want to hear. That's why TV7 is being closed down and why the NZ press association has been shut down - people don't want documentaries, analysis or investigative important journalism, they want reality tv wife swap oprah fat loser sound bite wank.

[Smifffy]

I think you are correct but unduely dispairing of the average Bruce and Sharon.

If you talk to the average person, no matter their educaion or background, they do worry about jobs, health, crime, and their children's education. The problem is each of these issues is complex even with only 4 million people. If we lived in villages of 500, it would be a lot simpler.

So the detail is too difficult to understand. We are also ill-served in my not so humble opinion by our government and our media. They do an appalling job of explaining debates and ideas. Everything is boiled down to sound bites or else completely side-tracked by irrelevancies.

For example, when the govt reduced adult education and two beneficiaries spoke up, those women became the focus of the media attention. Not the issue itself - of course not when you can much easily attack two women who were silly enough to have an opinion.

I was disgusted that journalists could so readily miss a serious story.

Very true, and if there were actually a couple of journalists that went right to the heart of the debate, and delivered pulitzer prize worthy reporting, do you think Bruce & Sharon would care? Or would they be more interested in who just got caught having an affair on Shortland St, and who got eliminated from American Idol?

[shrub]

If you talk to the average person, no matter their educaion or background, they do worry about jobs, health, crime, and their children's education...

We are also ill-served in my not so humble opinion by our government and our media. They do an appalling job of explaining debates and ideas. Everything is boiled down to sound bites or else completely side-tracked by irrelevancies.

People may care about those issues, but want to believe "someone else" is dealing with it, and are very keen to believe the politicians and the media when they blame 'the previous government' or 'beneficiaries' etc. If a politician was ever honest enough to say "hey, it's all of our problem and if we want to live in a safer society with good health care and education and more jobs we all have to participate regardless of our race or class, and we all have to pay" they would be gone by lunchtime.

And the media has become a commercial enterprise and soundbites and trivia are what sells. Welcome to the brave new world of private enterprise. I re-read BNW and 1984 a few months ago, it was like looking out my window and looking at the world I live in.

[oldrider]

Case in point, ACC state monopoly, biggest rip-off around, name one satisfied customer! :facepalm:


i am one,

I have had a broken femur, 17 dislocated shoulders, 2 ops on that shoulder, broken collarbones, wrists, thumbs, foot, and a 7 week stay in hospital with internal injuries, all covered by ACC, and all with time off work paid at 80% of my wages,

on all that time i had one claim attempt to be declined, that was for a shoulder that popped out as i rolled over in bed, and i sent them the 8 previous claim numbers and they admitted that it was still covered by an accident,

i do have a slight issue on how the goverment brings in the fees tho, ie the rego levy

True as far as the medical side goes the same people/providers would would still be the ones doing all of that irrespective of what ACC/insurance system is in place.

If ACC had been left in it's original format and only smartened up professionally and performance wise I would be all supportive "but it hasn't" and it "wont be"!

ACC is no longer no blame, motorcyclists (for example) are being blamed and penalised in every which way possible and you still can not sue to recapture any subsequent losses when it's not your fault!

The way ACC acquire their disproportionate levies is nothing short of extortion IMHO!

As a state monopoly you have no alternative and they have no competition, they can just charge whatever they like aided and abetted by our own ("elected"?) representatives holding a gun at your head!

If the government insist on running ACC as an insurance company I want to have alternatives, the right to sue and a refund from ACC if I choose the alternatives!

While I don't dispute the quality of the medical treatment etc I do not believe I have ever heard anyone say that ACC charges are spot on and that they are satisfied with the way things are! :nono:

I have been a licensed bike rider and have continuously ridden bikes for 57 years with only one small claim to ACC that cost them nothing!

Now that I am retired and don't have a commensurate salary to support the ACC levies attached to my motorcycle registration, I can no longer afford to continue to enjoy my life as a motorcyclist even though I have cost ACC next to nothing as a result of that pursuit.

Go back to the Woodhouse model of ACC or bring on "real" accident insurance, competition and personal choice!

Phill Gough and Labour will not rectify this ACC situation either even if they were the government for the rest of their lives, they are part of the problem rather than the solution IMHO! :facepalm:

Should Phill Gough resign? Well not really, I think those who vote for him should be the ones that should resign! :yes:

[Winston001]

I re-read BNW and 1984 a few months ago, it was like looking out my window and looking at the world I live in.

The Party is always correct, brother. The Huxley prole was a fiction. You are directed to report to your Re-Education Centre at 8 am tomorrow.

Yours In Truth
Winston S

[Winston001]

While I don't dispute the quality of the medical treatment etc I do not believe I have ever heard anyone say that ACC charges are spot on and that they are satisfied with the way things are! :nono:

I have been a licensed bike rider and have continuously ridden bikes for 57 years with only one small claim to ACC that cost them nothing!

Now that I am retired and don't have a commensurate salary to support the ACC levies attached to my motorcycle registration, I can no longer afford to continue to enjoy my life as a motorcyclist even though I have cost ACC next to nothing as a result of that pursuit.




You make good points John. I don't exactly disagree with you but here's my thoughts FWIW:



I don't know whether ACC charges are spot on but having just paid my Southern Cross medical insurance premium, ACC looks cheap by comparison.
You have paid plenty to ACC but not claimed. You have also paid plenty of tax to cover unemployment, domestic purposes, and sickness benefits. Yet you may not have claimed these either. But other people have...
ACC is a type of social insurance, quasi-social welfare. You may never need it but you help others who do. Is that bad?
Although we tend to think of ACC in terms of covering wages, it actually covers a heap of medical and rehabilitation costs. Part of NZs healthcare budget comes directly from billing ACC. If you have an accident thats an ACC cost even if you are not working.
Overseas KBers have said on previous threads that insurance and registration fees in other countries are far higher than what we face. Possibly we are luckier than we realise.

[Jantar]

....Yeah, I'm a cynic. I don't believe elections are won by the best party but by the party that has the best spin doctors because most people are too lazy to read and analyse policies and want to be told who to vote for just like they want to be told what shirts to wear.
I guess I'm even more of a cycnic. In my opinion no party has actually won an election in New Zealand for almost 50 years. Rather governments change because the party in power upsets enough people that they lose the election, and government changes by default.

[shrub]

ACC is a type of social insurance, quasi-social welfare. You may never need it but you help others who do. Is that bad?

We have been trained over the last couple of decades to base most of our value assessments on money. It's worked really well for manufacturers and the financial services industry because we now measure success and happiness by how much wealth we display which in turn is achieved by what we own - flash car, flat screen TV, flash bike, huge house etc. Most of us (self included) have more shit than they can really afford and certainly want a lot more, and the old idea of either cutting back or earning more has been replaced by demanding tax cuts. We have been trained to believe that paying tax is a bad thing and that tax cuts are not just our right but essential to our success as a society because why should anyone work harder/earn more if all that means is paying more tax?

Because tax pays for stuff many of us don't use (ACC, benefits, prisons etc) we resent people who use those things, and especially resent the inability of others to work/earn/pay their share whatever the reason. The reason I don't have a 5 bedroom house with a BMW in the garage is because I pay so much tax and the reason I pay so much tax is because lazy, useless pricks are enjoying a great lifestyle on the dole, prisons are luxury hotels for lazy, useless and dishonest pricks and worst of all lazy, useless bureaucrats in Wellington are getting paid a brazillian dollars a year for doing nothing.

Our changed values have made a lot of money for people lending money to buy shit from people who have made a lot of money selling that shit but made our society the poorer.

[shrub]

I guess I'm even more of a cycnic. In my opinion no party has actually won an election in New Zealand for almost 50 years. Rather governments change because the party in power upsets enough people that they lose the election, and government changes by default.

Pretty much bang on the money. It's a truism that parties don't elections, governments lose them and that's why apart from the Nash government of 57 - 60 and the Kirk 72 - 75 government they all run longer. Nordmeyer's black budget was why they only ran a single term and Kirk's death in office with only Bill Rowling to replace him was the reason Muldoon et al took over.

Key was always going to win this election because the fact that his government hasn't really done anything at all means they haven't done anything to piss the voters off. I think Labour have left nice but bland Goff in control because they don't want a potential PM to lose an election (not that they really have anyone on their books for that role).

[mashman]

Oh dear... (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/9222218/more-bad-news-for-labour-in-latest-poll/)

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[shrub]

Oh dear... (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/9222218/more-bad-news-for-labour-in-latest-poll/)

My case exactly. Apparently he is a completely decent, honest and hard working guy, but BORING! John Key is a funny guy and a great entertainer - why wouldn't you vote for the man? Unless Labour hire someone funny and amusing like Tarquin Fin-tim-lin-bin-whin-bim-lim-bus-stop-F'tang-F'tang-Olé-Biscuitbarrel, I'm voting National this election.

[Winston001]

You backsliders! Kevin Philip Bong has my vote. :drinkup:

[pete376403]

John Key is the funny guy to keep the proles amused while English, McCully and Brownlee are stealing democracy from under the proles noses. Guess people get what they vote for.
Key probably doesn't care what NZ turns into - he's got enough money to take himself and his family and live some place nice.

[mashman]

My case exactly. Apparently he is a completely decent, honest and hard working guy, but BORING! John Key is a funny guy and a great entertainer - why wouldn't you vote for the man? Unless Labour hire someone funny and amusing like Tarquin Fin-tim-lin-bin-whin-bim-lim-bus-stop-F'tang-F'tang-Olé-Biscuitbarrel, I'm voting National this election.

I'll just stick to my non-voting in that case. At least you'll be backing a winner.