Eleven Billion

[Maha]

The oustanding student loan (Loan= not a gift) is eleven billion dollars.
It was never a gift, how about you get off your educated arses and pay back what is not yours to keep. The NZ economy could well do with the money the Government 'loaned' you.
If I were to ever take out a loan for whatever reason, I would have to pay it back as per the contract that was signed at the time.

[YellowDog]

The oustanding student loan (Loan= not a gift) is eleven billion dollars.
It was never a gift, how about you get off your educated arses and pay back what is not yours to keep. The NZ economy could well do with the money the Government 'loaned' you.
If I were to ever take out a loan for whatever reason, I would have to pay it back as per the contract that was signed at the time.

Pay it back, or we'll take your bikes and sell them :yes:

[Maha]

85,000 recipients of the student load are now living and working over seas.
How much do you think they are contributing to thier counrty of birth?
The country that supported them when they needed something now needs the favour back.
They owe about 2.3 billion.

[Squiggles]

The oustanding student loan (Loan= not a gift) is eleven billion dollars.
It was never a gift, how about you get off your educated arses and pay back what is not yours to keep. The NZ economy could well do with the money the Government 'loaned' you.
If I were to ever take out a loan for whatever reason, I would have to pay it back as per the contract that was signed at the time.

Would have been nice to go to Uni when it was free...

[CookMySock]

Ahhhh its the students fault the country is in the shit? I did wonder.... :yes:

[Oblivion]

Extradite em' for crimes against Christchurch. :innocent:

[FJRider]

Would have been nice to go to Uni when it was free...

The education bit is not the big cost ... with inflation ... rent, food and booze prices are the real costs ... :drinkup:

or you could live at home with mum and dad ... :shutup:

[Smifffy]

Don't worry the fascists are likely drawing up legislation hastily and to be passed under urgency in the near future.


Not too impressed with the Nat's abuse of the urgency loophole at the moment. If only there was a credible opposition.

[Maha]

Ahhhh its the students fault the country is in the shit? I did wonder.... :yes:

We dont really want the people back, no no, just the money that is owed.
It not to much to ask is it?
Eleven Billion could almost rebuild Chrischurch.
Tell me Steve (and anybody else who cares to) what would happen if you missed a few loan repayments on a vehicle or indeed 6-7-8 months worth of mortgage payments?

[Drew]

Funny when they were talking about budget surplus a couple years back, they were counting the money that should have been paid back in that year.

[Fatt Max]

Could never work out the whole student loan thing. I mean, why would we loan a student to anyone, and who wants to borrow a student....?

It's fucked really...

[Nasty]

Would have been nice to go to Uni when it was free...

Thats funny .. it stopped being free when I was the right age ... and I choose not to go but to work .. have used the loans system twice now for study and paid it back without an issue ... why can't others?

[Maha]

Could never work out the whole student loan thing. I mean, why would we loan a student to anyone, and who wants to borrow a student....?

It's fucked really...

35 thousand ended up becoming pastry chefs...more pies than cakes you understand...:corn:
Actually, I knew of a Uni Grad that ended up working in the Horticultral department at a local hospital...thruth was, he worked in the kitchen.
Payback your loan cabbage boy.

[Ocean1]

Whoever loans money should be conversant with the concept of risk, the dollar value associated with the possibility that the recipient won't repay the loan.

If you're going to offer young people money to spend on an education I reckon it'd be a really really good idea to charge a premium for loans for any of the McDiploma courses offered by the more opportunistic institutions. They're not likely to contribute to the earning capacity of the loan recipient, you're simply offering the students a millstone around their fiscal neck.

Me, I'd make education likely to be useful in contributing to the growth of the nation free. If you reckon there's a long term living to be made teaching tourists underwater basket weaving then by all means fill yer boots. From your own pocket.

We'll never see most of those loans, write them off and move on. Just pay attention in future, and when the government offers to spend your money on fucking silly ideas then do something about it, eh?

[FJRider]

We dont really want the people back, no no, just the money that is owed.
It not to much to ask is it?
Eleven Billion could almost rebuild Chrischurch.


Expect an outcry from said "overseas students" ... when ... upon their return to attend a funeral or some family/important event ... they get stopped at the airport untill the account is settled ... or at least not allowed to LEAVE the country ...

Student loans will be treated in the same manner as unpaid court fines ...

[Nasty]

Thats funny .. it stopped being free when I was the right age ... and I choose not to go but to work .. have used the loans system twice now for study and paid it back without an issue ... why can't others?

Thinking about it .. when I would have gone through you needed actual qualifications to get in to varsity ... don't need much now.

[Squiggles]

Thats funny .. it stopped being free when I was the right age ... and I choose not to go but to work .. have used the loans system twice now for study and paid it back without an issue ... why can't others?

They are... (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3351909/Govt-plans-to-tighten-student-loan-scheme)

Better investment than bailing out finance companies... imo

[FJRider]

... why can't others?

Because they can ... or should that be ... wont ...

[Elysium]

The oustanding student loan (Loan= not a gift) is eleven billion dollars.
It was never a gift, how about you get off your educated arses and pay back what is not yours to keep. The NZ economy could well do with the money the Government 'loaned' you.
If I were to ever take out a loan for whatever reason, I would have to pay it back as per the contract that was signed at the time.

:killingme:lol:...........:blink: Oh wait, you're serious?

[Mom]

Would have been nice to go to Uni when it was free...

Wouldn't it? There were riders on some degrees. Teachers were bonded, I had to work while earning my qualification. Try working full time shift work, while studying, non stop for 3 years.

Things were different back in the day, we played by the rules at the time. There are thousands of ex students, working overseas that owe $$$$ they should repay.

I dont agree with the student loan system as it has been allowed to progress. But if you (not you understand :D) took money to assist you through your studies, by way of loan, it needs to be paid back :yes:

[FJRider]

:killingme:lol:...........:blink: Oh wait, you're serious?

Which would you prefer .... full repayment of student loans ... :gob:

or ...

an increase in TAX rates ... to cover the short-fall ... :shit:

[wtf?]

The whole thing has also created supply for things that there isnt much demand. Just ask all those graduates out there flippin burgers at Maccas with shiny new commercial pilots licences in their back pockets. Far more graduates than jobs thats for sure.

[FJRider]

The whole thing has also created supply for things that there isnt much demand. Just ask all those graduates out there flippin burgers at Maccas with shiny new commercial pilots licences in their back pockets. Far more graduates than jobs thats for sure.

Commercial pilots WITH experience are ...

Shiny new Degree's with no actual job relevance seems normal nowdays ...

But ... the modern student lifestyle is not to be missed ... eh ...

[wtf?]

Commercial pilots WITH experience are ...

Not much demand for those either, chopper.

[bogan]

Thinking about it .. when I would have gone through you needed actual qualifications to get in to varsity ... don't need much now.

Exactly, too many go because it's fun times on the governments bill. Performance based sliding scale interest rates / loan denial if you're really shit could be the way to go.

[Fatt Max]

I stripped for a couple of years.

Did'nt make any money but got all my loans for free. Its amazing what a bank manager will do when you show them pictures of you sitting on their face

[FJRider]

Not much demand for those either, chopper.

Not in New Zealand ... perhaps they could get work overseas ... :innocent:

[Maha]

Which would you prefer .... full repayment of student loans ... :gob:

or ...

an increase in TAX rates ... to cover the short-fall ... :shit:

What gets me is, so far 85,000 of said loan takers have bugged out and are now residing in a land far away. The government are now looking at a time limit to repay or they will put the recovery of the money into the hands over seas debt collectors.

[MaxCannon]

When I studied full time I also worked 15 - 30 hours a week (depending on what I could get) and over the holidays was working 40+ hours.
Somedays I'd work till 11pm at the Airport, drive back to the shore and then be up at 6am to get into the city for an 8am start.

Paying my way was tough but I came out without any debt.

I don't bedruge those that borrowed for their courses and paid it back (or are paying it back).

I do begrudge those that drew maximum loans, buggered about wasting money and then buggered off without paying it back.
Unfortunately I know a few of these people they literally pissed away the money.

Shouldn't be hard at all (given the sum involved) to setup a co-operative payback scheme with the Australian Tax Office and the UK.
Give em a couple of percent for collecting it for us and wham you've got probably over 60% of student that have moved overseas paying back their loans.

[FJRider]

Expect an outcry from said "overseas students" ... when ... upon their return to attend a funeral or some family/important event ... they get stopped at the airport untill the account is settled ... or at least not allowed to LEAVE the country ...

Student loans will be treated in the same manner as unpaid court fines ...

NOT far away ... :rockon:

[Edbear]

My wife is paying back her loan for her Diploma. The loan made her study a l;ot easier than it would have been had we had to pay it up front ourselves or take out a bank loan. The IRD was very helpful and assessed the payments according to her income and our circumstances and they are manageable for us. Never was a question as to whether we would pay it back. The salary increase for her qualifications more than made it worthwhile!

[bogan]

What gets me is, so far 85,000 of said loan takers have bugged out and are now residing in a land far away. The government are now looking at a time limit to repay or they will put the recovery of the money into the hands over seas debt collectors.

Fair enough I reckon, a lot go overseas because it's better money, or lack of jobs here; in either case they should have enough to cover their debt. Actually they could add a debt collection paper to the BA degree then get something useful out of them :shifty:

[Edbear]

Fair enough I reckon, a lot go overseas because it's better money, or lack of jobs here; in either case they should have enough to cover their debt. Actually they could add a debt collection paper to the BA degree then get something useful out of them :shifty:

I do know some have gone overseas because they can earn enough to repay their loan much more quickly than by staying here. It'd be good to know the stats on how many are doing that.

[Toaster]

The oustanding student loan (Loan= not a gift) is eleven billion dollars.
It was never a gift, how about you get off your educated arses and pay back what is not yours to keep. The NZ economy could well do with the money the Government 'loaned' you.
If I were to ever take out a loan for whatever reason, I would have to pay it back as per the contract that was signed at the time.

Completely agree for those avoiding paying it back. Interest free loans are at a direct cost to us. When I put myself through University I paid a total interest bill that nearly doubled the original loan but back as fast as I could so I could start saving for my first home.

The average income earner yet again gets shafted paying for those above and belwo them and with little reprieve in tiny tax cuts already sucked up in price increases in must have items like fuel, milk and bread.

[bogan]

Actually I heard some mutterings about changing the interest free part? I reckon it's good to have interest free while studying, but after the study is done, having interest would be a good incentive to pay it back. And would discourage people from borrowing the max all the way through so they can have a house deposit when they leave and start work :facepalm:

[Gremlin]

And would discourage people from borrowing the max all the way through so they can have a house deposit when they leave and start work :facepalm:
I think more than a decade ago, it may have been possible to abuse the system, but when I went through Uni starting in 2002, I never saw the funds, with them being transferred to the UoA directly.

I have a loan, ended up owing about 12-15k after 4.5 years of Uni (they only paid for the course fees). I worked part time during Uni and full time during breaks to pay for the books etc. The statements were shit, several people couldn't decipher how they were supposed to balance etc.

Re paying it back? I am, at the minimum required rate based on my income. It's interest free, so the real value of the loan is actually going down due to inflation, so I would be crazy to pay it back any faster. I could also bank the cash I would otherwise put into the loan, to earn interest etc. Recession is ruining the interest rate tho.

[Hopeful Bastard]

Do you lot even understand how a Student Loan works??

Its not like a bank loan where you ask for a sum of money and put some in ya back pocket.... I have a $10000 odd Student loan.. Do i see a Dollar of that? Or even get some to put on a house deposit? ( I WISH!)

I dont think so.. Only money I got was from my Student Allowance and working.

Am I paying my loan back? Yes I am.


Do I agree with putting Interest onto Student loans? No. Never. At the rate I am paying mine off, All I will be paying off is the Interest.. Can I afford to pay more? No. Why? Take a look at minimum wage.. Lucky to get $400 a week.. All Gone before i even see it :bye:

Why dont I get another job i hear you ask?? Go and have a look on trade me. See how many people are asking for x years experience. Or a license you dont hold?


Just my few words in this topic.

[bogan]

Do you lot even understand how a Student Loan works??

I have around 20ks worth (not bad for 7 years of uni, and counting :D), so I hope so!

Fees only is the one you don't see, but living costs, and the 1k course related costs goes straight into your account, and you can get about 9k pa from the later two.

[Maha]

I do know some have gone overseas because they can earn enough to repay their loan much more quickly than by staying here. It'd be good to know the stats on how many are doing that.

Three.....:corn:

[racefactory]

Not sure if the people claiming that we are avoiding paying it back know how a student loan even works.

Unless you go overseas and bugger off for good (hard to do considering how fine this country is), you will always be gradually paying it off automatically so long as you are on or above the minimum wage. Having said that though, there are still many who pay their loan off from overseas.

[Hopeful Bastard]

I have around 20ks worth (not bad for 7 years of uni, and counting :D), so I hope so!

Fees only is the one you don't see, but living costs, and the 1k course related costs goes straight into your account, and you can get about 9k pa from the later two.

Crikey! You are a Lucky soul to get that! :blink:

My costs went into transport, feeding myself etc..

She's quite a distance from Paraparaumu to the back hills in Levin 4 days a week..

I was lucky to get $200 a week on the Student Allowance. Any Living costs I received I have to pay back. Whilst studying, I was actually going backwards finance wise.. :facepalm:

[bogan]

Crikey! You are a Lucky soul to get that! :blink:

My costs went into transport, feeding myself etc..

She's quite a distance from Paraparaumu to the back hills in Levin 4 days a week..

I was lucky to get $200 a week on the Student Allowance. Any Living costs I received I have to pay back. Whilst studying, I was actually going backwards finance wise.. :facepalm:

Well obviously most wouldn't be able to save that, but if you wanted to abuse the system (under parental funding or have a job as well), that is how much you could get. I guess you could look at it as the parents or job are paying for that house deposit instead, but seems a bit unethical.

[Brian d marge]

Would have been nice to go to Uni when it was free...

Dont worry most of the over forties on this forum did just that ... its only the young ones who have to pay .... probably can guess why they called it godzone .....)


Ahhhh its the students fault the country is in the shit? I did wonder.... :yes:
John key and all them sitting in that newly refurbished beehive of decite , also had free Education ...

The oustanding student loan (Loan= not a gift) is eleven billion dollars.
It was never a gift, how about you get off your educated arses and pay back what is not yours to keep. The NZ economy could well do with the money the Government 'loaned' you.
If I were to ever take out a loan for whatever reason, I would have to pay it back as per the contract that was signed at the time.

So you are feeling hard done by ... because of successive government curtailing to a foreign powers economic whimsy

Education , if I remember is a social contract between , the student and the community , but when the contract is broken , both side complain . ( I wonder who broke this contract first ...... Oh I remember , they said it was to get more people into higher education,,,,,)

Last time I checked, Education IS free , and has been since Adam was a lad . PROFIT in education is a fairly new concept.

Also someone with a bit more economic savvy ,.... is the student loan on the books as an asset or a debt?? ( my guess is asset!)

Still must be nice and quiet there with half of the young earners living overseas , must be tough on the grandparents watching the grandchildren grow up via skype


Stephen

Snip Changes are proposed to Inland Revenue’s administration of the student loan scheme to improve
the overall integrity of the scheme, and reduce compliance costs and administrative pressures.
The social policy programmes administered by Inland Revenue have, over recent years, greatly
increased Inland Revenue’s customer base: for example, there were 58,000 new student loan
borrowers in the 2007–08 tax year. The current student loan system is complex, unwieldy,
expensive to maintain, and has limited ability to accommodate further changes. Each policy
change made has exposed underlying system issues, which require corrective action and have the
potential to destabilise both the student loan and core tax collection systems. The student loan
scheme represents a significant asset to the government, which needs to be managed effectively
to protect the value of this asset, and better manage the cost of the student loan scheme to the
Crown.

So all good for Key and his mates , all about reducing inflation at the expense of the common man ...... Carry on ...Use lube it doesnt hurt so much

[Woodman]

Is the student loan system contributing to the brain drain??

The people with "brains" leave the country and won't come back because then they will have to repay their loans.
Kinda discourages them working here really.

[Mully]

The people with "brains" leave the country and won't come back because then they will have to repay their loans.
Kinda discourages them working here really.

Mmm, I wondered that.

I always thought a bonding system (need a Dr in a small town, write off 10% of the loans per year) would be the go.

I'd think maybe there are too many B.Com, L.L.Bs are being produced and there's no demand to bond them - so they buggar off.

[steve_t]

Is the student loan system contributing to the brain drain??

The people with "brains" leave the country and won't come back because then they will have to repay their loans.
Kinda discourages them working here really.

Oh man, so if I'd left the country, I wouldn't have had to pay it back?! Now ya tells me :innocent:

[Smifffy]

Student loans will be treated in the same manner as unpaid court fines ...

You mean they will be wiped in return for 100 hours of community service that nobody ever does?

[superman]

Piss off I'm not paying back a cent. You know how expensive tertiary education is in this country?! Over $12,000 per year compared to free a few decades ago. Interest free student loans are the least student should get. I could very easily fuck off to central Europe and get tertiary education at a couple thousand per year but I would prefer here. But you know whatever, make people piss off at 18 rather than 23 not much difference except less would come back as they wouldn't feel indebted at all. :blink:

Though I guess NZ would be better off with immigrants than born here people anyway... :shutup:

[Shadows]

Simple fix - make everybody who takes out a student loan surrender their passport until they have repaid their debt to society.

[Oblivion]

Piss off I'm not paying back a cent. You know how expensive tertiary education is in this country?! Over $12,000 per year compared to free a few decades ago. Interest free student loans are the least student should get. I could very easily fuck off to central Europe and get tertiary education at a couple thousand per year but I would prefer here. But you know whatever, make people piss off at 18 rather than 23 not much difference except less would come back as they wouldn't feel indebted at all. :blink:

Though I guess NZ would be better off with immigrants than born here people anyway... :shutup:

The reason that foreign education has always been so cheap was because of the population. Over in Europe class sizes are something like 30-40. And here, our Minister of Edumacation wants to decrease class sizes. Purely for the fact that underrated teachers can't keep up with 30+ students. :facepalm:

And you think $12k a year is bad? A friend of mine quoted a student loan for his Bachelor Of Music @$120k over five years :shit:

[Brian d marge]

You mean they will be wiped in return for 100 hours of community service that nobody ever does?

Sign me up for a BA in Lesbian affairs , with hon ..and Inter-cultural studies , oh and wood work class , ( I was crap at wood work)

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

You mean they will be wiped in return for 100 hours of community service that nobody ever does?

Sign me up for a BA in Lesbian affairs , with hon ..and Inter-cultural studies , oh and wood work class , ( I was crap at wood work)

Stephen

BTW , I wonder who told everyone it was a debt .......... they government perchance???

[Gremlin]

I always thought a bonding system (need a Dr in a small town, write off 10% of the loans per year) would be the go.
National proposed this when in opposition a few years ago, Labour called it slavery. I completely agree with it. You get a subsidised education, you go wherever in the country the government needs you, and a % of your loan is wiped off for each year of service.

If you don't want to be a "slave" run through the normal system, and pay it back.

[Brett]

Paid mine back a few years back, now clocking up another with part time study, however pretty much paying it back each subsequent year. Will take a lot longer to kill the wifes one though, a hefty $100k.

[jazfender]

The culture of 7th form is that when you are finished you are going to uni. Generally those that drop out earlier are considered...drop outs. Even if you finish 7th but don't go to uni you're considered less favourably than those that are.

All through out the year you are bombarded with offers from universities with teachers and parents ramming that shit down your throat. If you don't go to uni -> loser. Uni is the only way for you to be a success. All your friends are going. Do this career test so you know which uni course to take. You can be that but only if you go to uni blah blah blah.

Everyone gets sucked into this whirlpool of bullshit. People go to uni that don't even want to. Or don't know what they want. Cases abound.

All this shit and it's fucking expensive. People talk about paying their loans off years, decades after they finish.

It's OK though right? Just take out a loan. Here's free money. This will solve all your problems and stop you from being left behind. Here you go, take this. This is the way. Little debt never hurt anyone. Remember you're going to uni, you'll be a success, you'll pay it off in no time...

More bananas dangled in front of the monkey.

Then reality hits. You grow and realise you're doing something you hate. Your degree doesn't mean shit. The job market wants experience, not a piece of paper. There's hundreds of others with the exact same piece of paper you have. The job you get isn't paying you nearly as much as you've been lead to believe. You're completely fucked if you even think about starting a family.

All this bullshit and you've still got at least 10k sitting to be paid back. If you're one of the lucky ones who can get a job in your field, your already low wage is crippled further by this burden. Not only that, you've got interest accruing if you leave.

Now some dickhead's blaming you for the economic issues the country's facing. Fuck that, go to Australia and don't come back.

Who the fuck wouldn't?

[marty]

The oustanding student loan (Loan= not a gift) is eleven billion dollars.
It was never a gift, how about you get off your educated arses and pay back what is not yours to keep. The NZ economy could well do with the money the Government 'loaned' you.
If I were to ever take out a loan for whatever reason, I would have to pay it back as per the contract that was signed at the time.

I pay 10k a year back off mine, so fuck off.

[marty]

Crikey! You are a Lucky soul to get that! :blink:

My costs went into transport, feeding myself etc..

She's quite a distance from Paraparaumu to the back hills in Levin 4 days a week..

I was lucky to get $200 a week on the Student Allowance. Any Living costs I received I have to pay back. Whilst studying, I was actually going backwards finance wise.. :facepalm:

My son is in his second year at Waikato. He gets ZERO allowances. He works 30hrs a week to cover his uni and living expenses. We live far enough away from Hamilton to just be a pain in the arse - too far to commute, not far enough to receive any allowances. One of his flatmates however, whos parents milk 500 cows on a big farm (their own farm) in the south waikato (and have a 'very low income') gets full allowances for accomodation and living - not student loan allowances either!

[Indiana_Jones]

The culture of 7th form is that when you are finished you are going to uni. Generally those that drop out earlier are considered...drop outs. Even if you finish 7th but don't go to uni you're considered less favourably than those that are.

All through out the year you are bombarded with offers from universities with teachers and parents ramming that shit down your throat. If you don't go to uni -> loser. Uni is the only way for you to be a success. All your friends are going. Do this career test so you know which uni course to take. You can be that but only if you go to uni blah blah blah.....


Agreed.

-Indy

[Delerium]

Exactly, too many go because it's fun times on the governments bill. Performance based sliding scale interest rates / loan denial if you're really shit could be the way to go.

When were you last a student? FUn times on the govt bill. NOt bloody likely.

[-df-]

The oustanding student loan (Loan= not a gift) is eleven billion dollars.
It was never a gift, how about you get off your educated arses and pay back what is not yours to keep. The NZ economy could well do with the money the Government 'loaned' you.
If I were to ever take out a loan for whatever reason, I would have to pay it back as per the contract that was signed at the time.

And how much $$$ have those people brought into the country? How much more tax has been paid because people are earning alot more with their education?

If you want to live in a 3rd world country, by all means, devalue education.

Otherwise learn how the world works, and what is required to live in todays world.

Hell, $11b seems like a cheap investment in the future of the country (and thats even ignoring anyone paying any back) if you look at how long that took to rack up.

Lets look at the figures:

Earning potential in my area $80-$120hr. Take the middle, $208000 per year, paying a total of $59,560.00 in tax per year (double my loan amount when I left uni).

Earning potential of average NZer $35k (if I remember correctly that the average yearly income in NZ). Total tax paid; $5,145.00

Now spread that out over 40 years working, educated person, $2.38mil of tax paid in his life time of working, non educated person, 200k.

Which one is actually helping the rest of the country more??? sure it cost the country $30k initially, but within the first couple of years they have already paid their debt to society as some put it, so perhaps it’s the non educated that owe a debt to the educated as they are the ones paying the most tax and helping the country grow if that’s how you look at life (and I really hope you don’t).

[James Deuce]

Just a thought. I took out student loans for my fees for my Masters. I paid them off over each semester.

3 years later I was rung by IRD and asked for the $7500 outstanding on my student loan. It was bullshit and took a bit of work to sort out, but they still gouged me for an additional $3500 over the next couple of years even though I'm on PAYE.

I reckon that this is simply a way of presenting the education system as being out of control and students as being irresponsible dickheads so they can force wages for degreed people down and reduce Government spending in the tertiary education sector.

I think you're a bunch of chumps if you take anything the Government says at face value. In fact, ANYONE involved in politics falls into that category.

[avgas]

Wouldn't it? There were riders on some degrees. Teachers were bonded, I had to work while earning my qualification. Try working full time shift work, while studying, non stop for 3 years.
Pfffttt pussy.

Try 8 years, and mid-time work (35 hours week), and 80K of loan.

All over in 10 weeks :woohoo: (study and loan)

All of this was hard for one simple reason. Studylink refused to acknologed that I was living away from home - not being supported by my dad. (Who deserves every $ of his crust seeing as he works 80hr weeks).

While I agree with the sentiment of many here - loans should be paid back. I know (from the inside) the whole system is fucked. And if you want to fix it - its going to cost you.
Simple things like:

- Standard student allowance for all NZ students. (to help pay living costs) - say 70% of living costs
- Remove "living allowance" part of student loan
- If you do not achieve an average C pass, you do not get loan next year

Would eliminate:
- prevent people whom don't want to work+study from the system
- prevent people from doing a course they will never achieve
- prevent people whom would normally do uni cos their mates are doing it - live a life on credit.

As for the current debt - they just need to be stricter. Pass the debt to GE money / Baycorp or someone. Not IRD. People have 30 year old tax bills with IRD and not know it - because IRD are just slack.
Funny how they mention the 11b debt, not the 30b paid back.

[Maha]

And how much $$$ have those people brought into the country? How much more tax has been paid because people are earning alot more with their education?

If you want to live in a 3rd world country, by all means, devalue education.

Otherwise learn how the world works, and what is required to live in todays world.

Hell, $11b seems like a cheap investment in the future of the country (and thats even ignoring anyone paying any back) if you look at how long that took to rack up.

Lets look at the figures:

Earning potential in my area $80-$120hr. Take the middle, $208000 per year, paying a total of $59,560.00 in tax per year (double my loan amount when I left uni).

Earning potential of average NZer $35k (if I remember correctly that the average yearly income in NZ). Total tax paid; $5,145.00

Now spread that out over 40 years working, educated person, $2.38mil of tax paid in his life time of working, non educated person, 200k.

Which one is actually helping the rest of the country more??? sure it cost the country $30k initially, but within the first couple of years they have already paid their debt to society as some put it, so perhaps it’s the non educated that owe a debt to the educated as they are the ones paying the most tax and helping the country grow if that’s how you look at life (and I really hope you don’t).

Investment my arse, the smart ones are now living/working and contributing to other country's, not NZ...85,000 of them to put a figure on it.
Fact is, students were loaned the money, they have to pay it back, nows a good time for those that have found employment.

[-df-]

Investment my arse

And we wonder why this country is going to shit...we want it all, but not willing to do anything about it.

EDIT: And I would hazard a guess that the main reason they bugger off overseas is because they are sick of proping up half a country that can't be arsed learning new skills and bettering themselves and the country...I know I've thought of it, and thats the main reason I would leave.

[bogan]

When were you last a student? FUn times on the govt bill. NOt bloody likely.

Still am, maybe the lower living costs in palmy makes it easier.


Investment my arse, the smart ones are now living/working and contributing to other country's, not NZ...85,000 of them to put a figure on it.
Fact is, students were loaned the money, they have to pay it back, nows a good time for those that have found employment.

How many students are actually 'defaulting' on their loans though? Seems to me the government is lending more (inflation, fee rises etc, more students) so you would expect the outstanding balance to be more.

[Maha]

And we wonder why this country is going to shit...we want it all, but not willing to do anything about it.

EDIT: And I would hazard a guess that the main reason they bugger off overseas is because they are sick of proping up half a country that can't be arsed learning new skills and bettering themselves and the country...I know I've thought of it, and thats the main reason I would leave.

I already have all I want in life...ok a Repsol Honda would be nice ....:corn:

You wont answer the real issue here will you....
Student loans need to be paid back...yes or no?
You can only answer yes to that question.
Any surrounding issues as to why these loans are not being repaid is quite frankly, rediculous. Death is one out, but other than that? living in another country does not exempt one from repaying a loan.....you do what the word 'loan' means?

[marty]

Simple fix - make everybody who takes out a student loan surrender their passport until they have repaid their debt to society.

Good one. We live in NZ, not North Korea.

I recently disappeared off shore for a 2 month contract. On return, I made a lump sum $15k payment off my loan.

Your passport idea would have precluded that - still sound like a good idea?

[-df-]

I already have all I want in life...ok a Repsol Honda would be nice ....:corn:

You wont answer the real issue here will you....
Student loans need to be paid back...yes or no?
You can only answer yes to that question.
Any surrounding issues as to why these loans are not being repaid is quite frankly, rediculous. Death is one out, but other than that? living in another country does not exempt one from repaying a loan.....you do what the word 'loan' means?

Ok, yes a loan should be repaid, and I have no problem repaying mine, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't be in the position I am now.

Should all student loans have to be paid back? Only answer I can give is no, I believe not all should have to be paid back. Someone that’s doing a degree that will benefit EVERYONE (either by tax or what they do) should not have to pay it back...why you ask? Because then more people will do it, the country grows stronger because of it and EVERYONE wins...and these people spending $30k on a degree they will never use will stop.

Should Maori studies, astrology, history, etc be fully subsidised? hell no

All sciences should be free to study...think about what this country would be like in 100 years if that would happen...*waits for smart mouthed idiots*

You DO know what the word economy means don't you?

[bogan]

All sciences should be free to study...think about what this country would be like in 100 years if that would happen...*waits for smart mouthed idiots*

Ahhh, population control, too many overqualified people mean most have to go overseas to find jobs, and overseas will want them cos they are smart, lowering NZ population... *there, I didn't even make you wait long :bleh:*

[Brett]

Between the wife & I we earn (a very large sum) LESS than what we would get in Aussie, and no...that is not out in the middle of nowhere with only camels to talk to, that is around urban Sydney, Melbourne or Adelaide. We stay in NZ because we like the lifestyle and the family is all here. However, those attractions only last so long. If the government were to decide to make interest payable on all completed student loans, that would be the tipping point. Not going to get paid half (or less) what we can get in Aussie and still get hit with interest.
If the govt wants interest for their loan, then fair enough, but it would be sayonara kiwi land and I would start speaking with an Aussie twang. SL's would still be paid off and we would have more than twice in the bank what we get here.
IMO if the govt want to reduce their costs in regards to SL's, then they need to stop funding all these ridiculous programmes that ultimately have few roles to be filled. E.g... diving instructor, sports and recreation, skydiving instructor and the list goes on. Sure for some people these are going to be professions, but not for the 'X' thousand who are doing these courses.
Also, schools are not pushing the trade route enough yet. Ok, apprenticeships have been hard come by over the last 2 or 3 years, but I still think that apprenticeships are great, many tradies do bloody well.

[avgas]

Should all student loans have to be paid back? Only answer I can give is no, I believe not all should have to be paid back. Someone that’s doing a degree that will benefit EVERYONE (either by tax or what they do) should not have to pay it back...why you ask? Because then more people will do it, the country grows stronger because of it and EVERYONE wins...and these people spending $30k on a degree they will never use will stop.
Pffftt we can import more hippies.

So no all loans should be paid back. I mean it makes a social worker a bit of a hippocrite if they state "you need to strive a bit harder" when they are milking the gravy train.

As for the science.......bwahahahaha considering some of our best inventions never got near a science graduate. Shows how 'skilled' they are.

[oldrider]

Would have been nice to go to Uni when it was free...

It never was "free", there is no such thing as a free lunch, someone, somewhere foots the bill!

It may have been temporarily free for the students but it was still not free for the taxpayer!

Failure to pay back student loans is simply just stealing from your own family!

[slofox]

, and who wants to borrow a student?

I'd "borrow" some of the young girlie ones...:whistle:

[-df-]

So no all loans should be paid back.


Short-sighted, sad really...mind you, thats what this country is founded on isn't it?



As for the science.......bwahahahaha considering some of our best inventions never got near a science graduate. Shows how 'skilled' they are.

Well, that statement tells me alot.

Whether its by a "graduate" or someone just interested in science...its the only area that will matter in couple hundred years...

On that, I think degrees are bullshit really...I learnt all I needed before going to uni, and after...I didn't really learn anything new there...but I needed that piece of paper otherwise I wouldn't have got the job...but they are there to show that you can learn (when mums not on your back to go to school)

Anyway, doesn't sound like you'll ever understand so...yeah, have fun.

[-df-]

Ahhh, population control, too many overqualified people mean most have to go overseas to find jobs, and overseas will want them cos they are smart, lowering NZ population... *there, I didn't even make you wait long :bleh:*

Chur chur, I don't like to wait :scooter:

[racefactory]

The culture of 7th form is that when you are finished you are going to uni. Generally those that drop out earlier are considered...drop outs. Even if you finish 7th but don't go to uni you're considered less favourably than those that are.

All through out the year you are bombarded with offers from universities with teachers and parents ramming that shit down your throat. If you don't go to uni -> loser. Uni is the only way for you to be a success. All your friends are going. Do this career test so you know which uni course to take. You can be that but only if you go to uni blah blah blah.

Everyone gets sucked into this whirlpool of bullshit. People go to uni that don't even want to. Or don't know what they want. Cases abound.

All this shit and it's fucking expensive. People talk about paying their loans off years, decades after they finish.

It's OK though right? Just take out a loan. Here's free money. This will solve all your problems and stop you from being left behind. Here you go, take this. This is the way. Little debt never hurt anyone. Remember you're going to uni, you'll be a success, you'll pay it off in no time...

More bananas dangled in front of the monkey.

Then reality hits. You grow and realise you're doing something you hate. Your degree doesn't mean shit. The job market wants experience, not a piece of paper. There's hundreds of others with the exact same piece of paper you have. The job you get isn't paying you nearly as much as you've been lead to believe. You're completely fucked if you even think about starting a family.

All this bullshit and you've still got at least 10k sitting to be paid back. If you're one of the lucky ones who can get a job in your field, your already low wage is crippled further by this burden. Not only that, you've got interest accruing if you leave.

Now some dickhead's blaming you for the economic issues the country's facing. Fuck that, go to Australia and don't come back.

Who the fuck wouldn't?

This is the only post on this thread with some insight worth the time reading. Massive culture problem, like sheep to the slaughter house. I could see this phenomenon even as a 6th former.

[Brian d marge]

Investment my arse, the smart ones are now living/working and contributing to other country's, not NZ...85,000 of them to put a figure on it.
Fact is, students were loaned the money, they have to pay it back, nows a good time for those that have found employment.

Who told you it was a loan? The government , or Satchi and Satchi? Dont get me wrong , When it first started David Carter told me face to face in his beehive office that its will be 25 % of the cost ,,,,

Tui moment

No problem with that ...Very big problem of being lied to and forced into debt ( because that what effectively is happening) and with such large amounts , all because of political ideology ...

Some of what the TV tells you may not actually be true

Stephen

[steve_t]

Should all student loans have to be paid back? Only answer I can give is no, I believe not all should have to be paid back.

How about instead of not making all loans be paid back, they give more funded scholarships to those in particularly economically beneficial fields?

[Brian d marge]

It never was "free", there is no such thing as a free lunch, someone, somewhere foots the bill!

It may have been temporarily free for the students but it was still not free for the taxpayer!

Failure to pay back student loans is simply just stealing from your own family!

But you expect the state to educate the primary school kids and High school kids, then tertiary must borrow large amounts , yes someone has to pay ...but the model is wrong , and the contract has been broken

Stephen

[superman]

It is true a ridiculous amount of the population go to university these days. What they need to do is make entry criteria much higher, now if you finish 7th form you can get into university. You don't need good marks in 7th form or anything you just need to scrape through.

All these bloody people doing non-beneficial degrees IE non-specialised BAs are not useful at all, I'm sure most bosses would want someone with 3 years working experience over a non-specialised BA student who has no experience.

Raise entry criteria, that will lower student numbers. Make it much more affordable and then if those who did shiite at school still want to go to uni they can pay for it themselves, since obviously they didn't take advantage of the free high school education system to get to a university level.

[racefactory]

BA in New Zealand Hip-Hop Culture anyone?
Or how about a Bachelor in Circus Performing?

'Fast-growing demand in these fields ensure excellent prospective job opportunities for graduates'

Sounds good? Not sure what to do after school? No problem just sign here and you can pay it off for the rest of your life. It's an abomination; the rule of thumb for 7th formers now is that if you're not sure what to do after school, go and do a business degree.

This is for real folks, fuck the system...

[-df-]

How about instead of not making all loans be paid back, they give more funded scholarships to those in particularly economically beneficial fields?

That would make a lot more sense than some SL have to be paid back and some not, basically the same end result, more bums in seats were we (as a country) need them.

A mate of mine almost completed a degree a few years back, dropped out to earn some $$, and has just decided to go back and finish it now as he was a lot closer to finishing than he thought...but guess what topics he's taking (nothing to do with course mind you, electives)...Buddhism and Hinduism, and another paper that I was like, really, that’s actually taught at uni?????

[Indiana_Jones]

Let's not forget Johnny-boy Campbell's rant with Ken Ring..... where he pretty much said to have any opinion you must goto uni, if you don't sit down and shut up! :woohoo:

-Indy

[avgas]

Short-sighted, sad really...mind you, thats what this country is founded on isn't it?
Actually its founded on the opposite.
The "don't worry we'll sort it out now for you" beneficial scheme.

Fact of the matter is that if people have to pay something back - they are better for it in the long run. This was the same in the apprentice days when you had to slave your ass away for a few years with a firm to get qualified.

You find me one person whom has had easy street and is now contributing to society and I will find you 10 whom weren't the press fakes.

[Delerium]

It is true a ridiculous amount of the population go to university these days. What they need to do is make entry criteria much higher, now if you finish 7th form you can get into university. You don't need good marks in 7th form or anything you just need to scrape through.

All these bloody people doing non-beneficial degrees IE non-specialised BAs are not useful at all, I'm sure most bosses would want someone with 3 years working experience over a non-specialised BA student who has no experience.

Raise entry criteria, that will lower student numbers. Make it much more affordable and then if those who did shiite at school still want to go to uni they can pay for it themselves, since obviously they didn't take advantage of the free high school education system to get to a university level.

That has flaws as well. I didnt pass 7th form. I now have an A- average in a B.com IT major.

[Maha]

Who told you it was a loan? The government , or Satchi and Satchi? Dont get me wrong , When it first started David Carter told me face to face in his beehive office that its will be 25 % of the cost ,,,,

Tui moment

No problem with that ...Very big problem of being lied to and forced into debt ( because that what effectively is happening) and with such large amounts , all because of political ideology ...

Some of what the TV tells you may not actually be true

Stephen

Surely any smart student wouldn't have been so naive as to think that any Government of the day was going to gift them money?

Glad you inserted the word Tui, otherwise I would have thought you were just takening the piss.

[Brian d marge]

Surely any smart student wouldn't have been so naive as to think that any Government of the day was going to gift them money?

Glad you inserted the word Tui, otherwise I would have thought you were just takening the piss.

I dont think it was a gift , nor would most of the student that undertook tertiary education.Fundamentally the money has to come from somewhere , IF you get it from tax for a bright few ( university ) or the masses ( polytech ) then the society AS A WHOLE bears the cost and the result the Student tend to stay in NZ ( no reason to leave or if they do leave there is the freedom to return )

IF you front load the student , ie force them in to ( sometimes Large Debt ) then it makes economic sense to leave to earn the money . Families are divided and we as a whole bear the social cost. The world is truly global and the drift is towards the large centers , families are the anchor which keeps communities together. ( look around for yourself ........)

The money was always "loaned " ( tax , then used for education ) , but in 1990 they ,as part of a failed economic theory, used students and the cost of the student to drive down government spending, ( spending on the community notice their salaries weren't touched )

So my original question still stands , Who told you it was a "loan" that should be paid back? the government , or satchi and satchi , or bloke down the pub.

Stephen

[Maha]

Its called a ''Student Loan'' so one would assume its a loan.....:blink:

[Bodir]

How did I ever managed to pay for my education without Parents of SL. :facepalm: What a world we are living in where it became a right to get money from the taxpayers to study. I confess, I have done something wrong in the past. :shutup:

Do I pay more in Taxes now? Yes.

The only difference in self funding is you do what you need to do and get it done as fast as you can. For me, student loan is exactly that, a loan, provided by a "nice" government to help you out. I did not take this advantage, cause where I come from the rules are a lot harder on your repayment.

[avgas]

How did I ever managed to pay for my education without Parents of SL.
I don't think this is the best place to announce you whored yourself on the streets. They have helplines for those kinds of mental problems these days.

[Camshaft]

That has flaws as well. I didnt pass 7th form. I now have an A- average in a B.com IT major.

same here, failed 7th form and am finding my engineering degree pretty cruisy. they do need to limit the intake of arts students tho, several of my mates are doin arts degrees cus the didnt want to work but culdnt decide what to do. and i overheard an english major joking with her friends about how she was gona gona go on the doll as soon as she graduated, made me wanna tell her to go get fucked, shes worse than those fucking 2nd or even 3rd generation islander beneficiaries as she should no better.

[Camshaft]

and no im not doin a gay boy pretend degree at unitec, its a proper
UoA BEng(hons)

[Brian d marge]

Its called a ''Student Loan'' so one would assume its a loan.....:blink:

Cant argue with that , I mean Student grant or student from your tax gift doesn't have the same ring to it when you try to select and demonise a section of the community in order to Justify ideology

Its a similar argument regarding the ACC, Does the Community support the person or does the individual , I prefer a community as individuals tend to look after themselves ......

One good thing about living in this and age.. The evidence has had time to emerge .

Milk anyone?

anyway Its only a loan because the government at the time were hell bent on following this new right adgenda, Using a business model and making people compete for work ( so that they neeed a higher education) and putting the "loan" on the government books as an asset ( nice bit of accounting )

it fitted nicely with their ideals, and destroyed ( ing ) a country,

Dont complain, Individuals look after number one , and they are doing just that ... everything is just how it should be ... well done

Stephen

by the way , hows that inflation rate ...... I see those policies worked then,,,,

[steve_t]

Dont complain, Individuals look after number one , and they are doing just that ... everything is just how it should be ... well done

Stephen

by the way , hows that inflation rate ...... I see those policies worked then,,,,

The VAST majority of the inflation figure is petrol. The price of crude oil is not influenced in any way by the RBNZ

[Brett]

and no im not doin a gay boy pretend degree at unitec, its a proper
UoA BEng(hons)

Gay boy degree...what utter bollocks.
My first degree was with Unitec (Bach Construction Management), which I did full time while working full time as a project manager. Nothing wrong with Unitec, many of the programmes that they offer are well put together with an emphasis on practical experience.
I also have been through Massey University (Bachelor Business, Marketing & IT double major) and have also completed a few papers at Auckland University...so I have experienced more than just the taste of vanilla.

I HATE how those who go through U of Akl genuinely think that they are superior.

Secondly, do Auckland University not have some standard for correct grammar and punctuation??

[SPman]

Would have been nice to go to Uni when it was free...
It was never "free" -way back when (in my case late 60's)
But - most students qualified for a 90% fees and allowances grant - so all we payed for was books and 10% of fees - still meant I had to work in the holidays and have a part time term job, but then we had the freezing works, wool stores and the wharf.....

[Brian d marge]

The VAST majority of the inflation figure is petrol. The price of crude oil is not influenced in any way by the RBNZ

Thats right , but we can drive it down by making people unemployed ,,,

Stephen

[Shadows]

Good one. We live in NZ, not North Korea.

I recently disappeared off shore for a 2 month contract. On return, I made a lump sum $15k payment off my loan.

Your passport idea would have precluded that - still sound like a good idea?

I don't know where you get the North Korea comparison from. Where I come from, people settle their debts or pay the consequences. Quite simple really.

Too many don't think like you seem to do. Too many are not stand up cunts, and think the rest of society owes them a living. Well we don't, and unfortunately, like all legislation, it would need to be tailored for the lowest common denominator.

In situations like yours there could be an application process where arrangements are vetted and sponsors / guaranteurs are signed up to ensure the applicant isn't going to do a runner before being considered for a limited passport.

[Delerium]

Gay boy degree...what utter bollocks.
My first degree was with Unitec (Bach Construction Management), which I did full time while working full time as a project manager. Nothing wrong with Unitec, many of the programmes that they offer are well put together with an emphasis on practical experience.
I also have been through Massey University (Bachelor Business, Marketing & IT double major) and have also completed a few papers at Auckland University...so I have experienced more than just the taste of vanilla.

I HATE how those who go through U of Akl genuinely think that they are superior.

Secondly, do Auckland University not have some standard for correct grammar and punctuation??


I have been to a few different institutions as well. Im finding UoA more challenging than massey in a B.Com. Generally, papers are often harder at UoA, but not always the case, and Massey offers different degrees that UoA does not do.

Dont get me started on 'AUT we need University in our name twice because we are a real university, honest.'

[Camshaft]

Gay boy degree...what utter bollocks.
My first degree was with Unitec (Bach Construction Management), which I did full time while working full time as a project manager. Nothing wrong with Unitec, many of the programmes that they offer are well put together with an emphasis on practical experience.
I also have been through Massey University (Bachelor Business, Marketing & IT double major) and have also completed a few papers at Auckland University...so I have experienced more than just the taste of vanilla.

I HATE how those who go through U of Akl genuinely think that they are superior.

Secondly, do Auckland University not have some standard for correct grammar and punctuation??

Bro wasnt having a dig, i no they offer good programmes but it is well known that the engineering degree there is much easier and not as highly regaurded as a UoA engineering degree, i have met lots of people that did there first 2 years at tec then crossed over to finish at auckland for that reason, its a well known alternate pathway, i had to do a year of Bsc to gets my math and physics up to scratch. Peace.

and re the grammer, yeah we gota sit an english screening test which was very easy, i talks guds wens i needs to.

[tri boy]

It's a simple fix really.
Each knob head student works 8hrs a day for 1yr, scooping poo/tampons/vomit etc out of ChCh fucked up sewer system, and we will take $100 off their student loan.
If they refuse, they are shot, and the invoice for the bullet is sent to their nanna.
Most of them will never work,so at least they get a student loan discount and for once in their pathetic lives, get their hands dirty:sunny:

[ducatilover]

I have a student loan, I'll never pay it back, I'm going to hide in a top secret location in the Amazon and masturbate into jars.
I'll pay it back after I'm finished studying, promise.
:innocent:

[steve_t]

I have a student loan, I'll never pay it back, I'm going to hide in a top secret location in the Amazon and masturbate into jars.
I'll pay it back after I'm finished studying, promise.
:innocent:

Are jars of semen quite valuable over there?

[ducatilover]

Are jars of semen quite valuable over there?

Yes. They certainly are.

[Maha]

Are jars of semen quite valuable over there?

I understand it takes three years to accumulate 1LTR ....:blink:

[Bald Eagle]

Bach Construction Management


Geeze didn't know you could get a degree in building a bach, does that consider all the options for old vynll tables and cast iron roofs without linings :lol:

[steve_t]

I understand it takes three years to accumulate 1LTR ....:blink:

But that'd be worth a herd of Alpaca or something, right?

[Latte]

I got my Student Loan when they were charging interest (even while you were studying - and the interest rate worked out to 8.5-9% at the time) - they stopped the interest a year or 2 after I graduated (I think). Taken me ~10 years to pay off (in another 3-4 months).

Will be nice to get rid of it, another couple of hundred in the pay packet will pay for tires :D

[Brett]

Bro wasnt having a dig, i no they offer good programmes but it is well known that the engineering degree there is much easier and not as highly regaurded as a UoA engineering degree, i have met lots of people that did there first 2 years at tec then crossed over to finish at auckland for that reason, its a well known alternate pathway, i had to do a year of Bsc to gets my math and physics up to scratch. Peace.

and re the grammer, yeah we gota sit an english screening test which was very easy, i talks guds wens i needs to.

Lol...added the grammar comment in as a wind-up :D

Yeah, there is one other thing that Auckland Uni does pretty well, and that is maintaining a high standard of graduate, I have employed a few and I do concede that they are consistently of a high standard.

I have a lot of other students around me during the day and I suppose I just get sick of the same old bullshit of 'X' is better than 'Y' etc. In reality, give them a few years work experience under their belt and it levels the playing field. Same reason I suppose why a couple of guys I know who only just skimmed through their degree's to a achieve a marginal pass actually ended up leaders in their field once they had some practical experience.

One thing I did notice with Auckand Uni that Unitec was shit at and Massey is only reasonable at is networks. Auckland University seems to have good connections with the wider community. Initiatives like Icehouse being one case in point.

[Brett]

Geeze didn't know you could get a degree in building a bach, does that consider all the options for old vynll tables and cast iron roofs without linings :lol:

Mate, you can get anything these days :D.

[Indiana_Jones]

and no im not doin a gay boy pretend degree at unitec, its a proper
UoA BEng(hons)

Got quite a few people in my engineering firm with Unitec and other tech school educations....

-Indy

[Camshaft]

Got quite a few people in my engineering firm with Unitec and other tech school educations....

-Indy

yeah?
ill give u a bell when i graduate and maybe u can give me a job too. that is if im still in the country

[Brett]

yeah?
ill give u a bell when i graduate and maybe u can give me a job too. that is if im still in the country

You would have to have rocks in your head to not consider Aussie at the moment. It does not matter what type of engineer you are, Aussie are aggressively recruiting.

[Indiana_Jones]

You would have to have rocks in your head to not consider Aussie at the moment. It does not matter what type of engineer you are, Aussie are aggressively recruiting.

I'm not even an engineer and I'm still considering it.

-Indy

[Maha]

I'm not even an engineer and I'm still considering it.

-Indy

30 years ago I was told I wouldn't make a Vinyl Layer as long as my arse pointed to the ground...30 years on, I am still doing it...some what slower now than I once was but its all about working smarter for me now, not harder.

[Indiana_Jones]

yeah?
ill give u a bell when i graduate and maybe u can give me a job too. that is if im still in the country

Better drop that attitude before you go looking for a job.

-Indy

[short-circuit]

I'm not even an engineer and I'm still considering it.

-Indy

You won't be considering it once you've seen my Bonnie :yes:

[bogan]

You would have to have rocks in your head to not consider Aussie at the moment. It does not matter what type of engineer you are, Aussie are aggressively recruiting.

No fucking way man, have you heard of the drop bears they have over there :shit:

I have 5 graduate engineer mates who are either looking for or have got jobs in the last 2 years, none went to aussie, so they can't be recruiting with the aggression their drop bears have :shifty:

[tri boy]

Loan money, pay it back=good buggar.
Loan money, welch on contract= limp dick criminal.

It a student can't work that out, then they havn't graduated from year 3.

[Brian d marge]

Loan money, pay it back=good buggar.
Loan money, welch on contract= limp dick criminal.

It a student can't work that out, then they havn't graduated from year 3.

Son at home = good

Havent seen son for 15 years ( except on skype ) = bad


Oldies who still live in the 1950s and have ruined NZ ...= Unforgivable


Stephen

[avgas]

I HATE how those who go through U of Akl genuinely think that they are superior.
I used to be like that. Sometimes I still feel a bit angry.

But then I think back to the fact that I have been tutoring AoU students including masters, in engineering, WAY before I even graduated from my own BE @ AUT.....

So they can't be too bright :blink:
But then again I have heard that many Harvard grads expect life to be like a textbook.....

so its the age old saying, don't judge the paper - judge the person.

[avgas]

No fucking way man, have you heard of the drop bears they have over there :shit:

I have 5 graduate engineer mates who are either looking for or have got jobs in the last 2 years, none went to aussie, so they can't be recruiting with the aggression their drop bears have :shifty:
I went there, came back as soon as I could.

Fucking horrible people to work for.
Why do you think the aussies recruit so heavily - they treat staff so bad they have to import more.

Fucking horrible employers.

[avgas]

30 years ago I was told I wouldn't make a Vinyl Layer as long as my arse pointed to the ground.
Those new pants must have really worked for you then.
Presentation is everything.

[Brett]

I used to be like that. Sometimes I still feel a bit angry.

But then I think back to the fact that I have been tutoring AoU students including masters, in engineering, WAY before I even graduated from my own BE @ AUT.....

So they can't be too bright :blink:
But then again I have heard that many Harvard grads expect life to be like a textbook.....

so its the age old saying, don't judge the paper - judge the person.

You're from AUT? How is it then that you can string a sentence together? :shit:

[tri boy]

Excuses, excuses. Same weak generation, same cracked record playing over n over again.
Just pay your bills you lot.

[Brett]

Excuses, excuses. Same weak generation, same cracked record playing over n over again.
Just pay your bills you lot.

So far, everyone on here with a student loan is paying it back...........

[ducatilover]

So far, everyone on here with a student loan is paying it back...........

Seems to be what I read too.... I was paying mine back last time between studies and will do so after this lot, it's not hard...

[Maha]

So far, everyone on here with a student loan is paying it back...........

Ok so thats seven then...:corn:
Now if the 85,000 overseas dwellers that are not on here, can find in the hearts (or wallets) to do the right thing and kick start some sort of repayment, maybe that would shame those still living here to do the same, once the news got out that is.

[Brett]

Ok so thats seven then...:corn:
Now if the 85,000 overseas dwellers that are not on here, can find in the hearts (or wallets) to do the right thing and kick start some sort of repayment, maybe that would shame those still living here to do the same, once the news got out that is.

Did they say 85,000 defaulters who are based overseas, or did they say that there are 85,000 SL policy holders overseas who are paying their back?

[Brian d marge]

Sooo.

A large group of people are bleating on about how terrible the Student Loans are ( the broken record )

The government ( at the time and now ) are saying , How good the loans are and how terrible the bad students are ( Acc?? have a similar sound)

Im not sure which is the best word to use at the moment , Naive or selfish,

Next time you buy Milk , or pay acc ,,,please don't complain YOU MADE THIS MESS

Stephen

[avgas]

You're from AUT? How is it then that you can string a sentence together? :shit:
usually with spaces in between the words.
don't they teach you anything technical at Unitec?

[SPman]

I went there, came back as soon as I could.

Fucking horrible people to work for.
Why do you think the aussies recruit so heavily - they treat staff so bad they have to import more.

Fucking horrible employers.
Generally - yes!

My boss is the exception - probably that, and the fact he's outnumbered 9 to 1 by foreigners.
The most laid-back office in the world, I reckon......

[Brett]

usually with spaces in between the words.
don't they teach you anything technical at Unitec?

You do know I was taking the piss?

[Latte]

You do know I was taking the piss?

pssst, he's better at it than you are ;)

[ynot slow]

An aside is I have overpaid my loan,started repaying when job started(was honest with ird code) loan hadn't gone from studylink to ird at the time.
Anyhoo working out I must have paid said loan off,I changed my tax code,as according to ird my loan was paid in full mid January(by my reckoning).Gotta love the system which takes ya dough immediately from your pay,sits in bank accruing interest(on our behalf)and supposed to credit my account on 20th month following,at the mo I'm in credit and checked ird site today(21st) and March payments not appearing yet,so I can't get refund for a while yet,but the pricks have my money since Jan without telling me "hey cancel your student tax code to normal or similar".

[motor_mayhem]

maybe those who are crapping on about how hard done by they are over those evil students need to engage their own fucken brains for a second.

1. What National are currently planning won't actually punish those overseas who aren't paying their loans off, only those here who are actually paying off their student loan which are actually the people you want here because they are paying tax to this country rather than another one.

2. You take away the supply of people who are qualified to do certain tasks then it will become much more expensive and more difficult (waiting lists/have to travel to other locations) to get those tasks done. I guarantee you'd be here bitching if the cost of services for example doctors, dentists, accountants and lawyers suddenly tripled.

3. You would create a more defined line between the well off and the not well off as someone coming from a not so well of family/background would know that if they studied the cost of the loan + interest would keep them indebted for much longer compared to someone who was able to loan interest free or be gifted the money from family or friends.

FTR my student loan (for BSc in Comp Sci) was about 23k at the end of 2005, and will be all paid off at the end of this year.

The only thing I would agree that there are some relatively pointless degrees being done though but at least most of the following aren't offered in NZ Uni's:

David Beckham studies – Staffordshire University, UK
Parapsychology – various colleges
Doctorate of Philosophy in Ufology – Melbourne University
The Phallus – Occidental College
Surfing Studies – Plymouth / Melbourne
Philosophy – various colleges
Queer Musicology – UCLA
Star Trek – Georgetown University in Washington
Golf Management – University of Birmingham / Florida Gulf Coast University
Art History – various colleges

From http://www.toptenz.net/to-10-useless-college-classes-degrees.php


Ok so thats seven then...:corn:
Now if the 85,000 overseas dwellers that are not on here, can find in the hearts (or wallets) to do the right thing and kick start some sort of repayment, maybe that would shame those still living here to do the same, once the news got out that is.
Are you serious? You were not aware that when you have a studen loan and live here and work, the repayments come out of your wage automatically? You can't live and work here and just avoid ird.

[Smifffy]

Found this: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/kerre-woodham-on-new-zealand/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502870&objectid=10716706

Have to say I agree with a lot of it.

Another system of funding education that the hand-wringers have overlooked is that of companies running graduate or cadet programs.

A way back when, some would come along in the early stages of a tertiary education and pick some students that they thought showed promise, the ones that had a few social skills, but didn't party away the entire semester. They would pick up some of the tab for fees & books, and provide employment for the student during the holidays. Usually they would have an entry level job waiting upon graduation. Sometimes the really big places would have less jobs available at the end of the year than students they sponsored, and encouraged a bit more competition.

Strangely under that system, the employers never really complained that the degrees weren't suitable.

Of course the accountants and HR managers have scrapped most of those programs as too expensive, and now bemoan the lack of quality candidates, the high mobility of gen y and the cost of recruitment and training.

[FJRider]

Of course the accountants and HR managers have scrapped most of those programs as too expensive, and now bemoan the lack of quality candidates, the high mobility of gen y and the cost of recruitment and training.

The same can (was) be said about apprenticeship's ....

[Ocean1]

The same can (was) be said about apprenticeship's ....

It was. With some justification and much the same reason. The wee darlings all fucked off for a prolonged OE just when they began to be worth having around. To add insult to injury the bastards all went to work for the private sector when they eventually dragged their sorry arses back home. So the MOW, NZR, NZED et al said fukit, if privately owned industry wants 'em they can train them themselves.

Private industry immediately failed to train anyone, of course, we went 20 years with fuck all apprenticeships. When they were eventually driven by the lack of tradesmen to begrudgingly admit they had no choice but to contribute they decided that what they really wanted wasn't those old fashioned trades at all. No, they wanted "Maintenance and Diagnostics Technicians". It's the single most eloquent synopsys of the problem: by that stage industrial “HR” departments had no idea what the trades do, where they're most effectively employed.

We're over the hump, now, there’s some clever young guys out there, but there's a huge hole in the national skill set in the middle-aged technical disciplines, the guys that used to be the engine of what used to be a largely technically literate nation.

[FJRider]

Most trades in the private sector ... electricians,plumbers, engineering shops,painters,builders ... even motorcycle shops ... ALL had an apprentice lurking ... doing all the shit jobs that had to be done.

And when the belt tighening began ... few were taken on. Employers got qualified staff by PAYING more (company vehicle to use etc) untill those qualified staff retired (or died) and then started advertising overseas. (English speaking Doctors are a novelty in most departments, in most provincial hospitals in NZ now)

Skilled labourers are the preferred label/option now ... and indeed a lot are very skilled. Just haven't got "the bit of paper" that once was the prerequisite of a "good" job.

[rainman]

maybe those who are crapping on about how hard done by they are over those evil students need to engage their own fucken brains for a second.

Good luck with that. Remember most of the smart ones have left.


Golf Management – University of Birmingham / Florida Gulf Coast University

I first read that as Goff Management - we could use some of that!


You can't live and work here and just avoid ird.

Have to say that's the question I've had all the way through this thread. I have a SL and am self-employed, but still there's no way to avoid paying the loan back (other than leave the country). I earn over the threshold so IRD has told me I need to start making payments. I imagine they'll take a rather dim view if I don't pay them - they have ways and means, as we all know, and they do know where I live...

How do those crying for changes to the scheme think that people avoid payments, other than going overseas or doing a really useless degree and being unemployable? (Even in the second case, the repayment threshold is $19k - that's about 27 hours a week at minimum wage...burger flipping could probably cover that).

Here's a thought: maybe the solution is actually to fix the crap wages in NZ.


We're over the hump, now, there’s some clever young guys out there, but there's a huge hole in the national skill set in the middle-aged technical disciplines, the guys that used to be the engine of what used to be a largely technically literate nation.

Explains a lot, thanks.

[Brian d marge]

It was. With some justification and much the same reason. The wee darlings all fucked off for a prolonged OE just when they began to be worth having around. To add insult to injury the bastards all went to work for the private sector when they eventually dragged their sorry arses back home. So the MOW, NZR, NZED et al said fukit, if privately owned industry wants 'em they can train them themselves.

Private industry immediately failed to train anyone, of course, we went 20 years with fuck all apprenticeships. When they were eventually driven by the lack of tradesmen to begrudgingly admit they had no choice but to contribute they decided that what they really wanted wasn't those old fashioned trades at all. No, they wanted "Maintenance and Diagnostics Technicians". It's the single most eloquent synopsys of the problem: by that stage industrial “HR” departments had no idea what the trades do, where they're most effectively employed.

We're over the hump, now, there’s some clever young guys out there, but there's a huge hole in the national skill set in the middle-aged technical disciplines, the guys that used to be the engine of what used to be a largely technically literate nation.
Well said
but the private sector did give some a good kick up the bum. I see it here Jobs for life , life security ... produces Jack and shyte
Stephen

[Brett]

pssst, he's better at it than you are ;)

That's not really all that hard...

[Shadows]

Here's a thought: maybe the solution is actually to fix the crap wages in NZ.

Sure. As soon as you bring us better monkeys.

[Oblivion]

Sure. As soon as you bring us better monkeys.

I take offence to that comment. Now, where's my banana?

[rainman]

Sure. As soon as you bring us better monkeys.

Monkeys are only a small part of the problem. Raising productivity hasn't raised wages.

[p.dath]

Sure. As soon as you bring us better monkeys.

We'll need better monkey trainers.

[cbgb]

love that "Course related costs" part of the SL... no questions asked handout - paid my rego and got me a brilliant couple pairs of jeans uh "for the course".

[Delerium]

love that "Course related costs" part of the SL... no questions asked handout - paid my rego and got me a brilliant couple pairs of jeans uh "for the course".

Which was added to your loan and you will end up paying back (if you havent already) and possibly with interest if you havent paid it by the time you graduate.

Not majoring in finance I hope.

[superman]

Which was added to your loan and you will end up paying back (if you havent already) and possibly with interest if you havent paid it by the time you graduate.

Not majoring in finance I hope.

That would be silly, you pay it back in $500 lumps and the government pays back another 10% on top. So really the loan is -10% :yes:

Which is why when people tell me they saved up to pay for uni and aren't getting student loans I laugh exhuberantly. :innocent:

[Bikemad]

just a little curious.............should i go to use the services of one of these highly qualified taxpayer subsidised uni graduates in the future..........will they let me settle the account for their services with regular interest free payments over the next five or so years...........pass the Tui

[Smifffy]

just a little curious.............should i go to use the services of one of these highly qualified taxpayer subsidised uni graduates in the future..........will they let me settle the account for their services with regular interest free payments over the next five or so years...........pass the Tui

Nah, just do what everyone else does and import a South African.

[superman]

just a little curious.............should i go to use the services of one of these highly qualified taxpayer subsidised uni graduates in the future..........will they let me settle the account for their services with regular interest free payments over the next five or so years...........pass the Tui

Would you expect it of hiring a tax payer subsidised high school graduate?

[Bikemad]

Would you expect it of hiring a tax payer subsidised high school graduate?
no.......because i believe everyone is entitled to the basics of a general education,the 3 Rs and that sort of stuff which is pretty much what its all about up to that level

[Brian d marge]

just a little curious.............should i go to use the services of one of these highly qualified taxpayer subsidised uni graduates in the future..........will they let me settle the account for their services with regular interest free payments over the next five or so years...........pass the Tui

you might , if they didnt have a 40 k loan

Stephen

[superman]

no.......because i believe everyone is entitled to the basics of a general education,the 3 Rs and that sort of stuff which is pretty much what its all about up to that level

Lol. I hardly think the 3 Rs are anything to do with the curriculum from when you're 13 onwards, unless you of course went to a shitty primary school. So maybe free education should stop at 13 where you can start choosing your subjects or should we say "career specialisations". :facepalm:

[Bikemad]

Lol. I hardly think the 3 Rs are anything to do with the curriculum from when you're 13 onwards, unless you of course went to a shitty primary school. So maybe free education should stop at 13 where you can start choosing your subjects or should we say "career specialisations". :facepalm:so your telling me you never did maths or english at high school
dude..........in my experience there is a ton of over 13-18 year old teenagers out there who could use a shitload more 3 Rs so i dont get where your coming from and thats probably a different topic anyway

[superman]

so your telling me you never did maths or english at high school
dude..........in my experience there is a ton of over 13-18 year old teenagers out there who could use a shitload more 3 Rs so i dont get where your coming from and thats probably a different topic anyway

Improving the 3 Rs goes on for the rest of your lifetime, but you can easily get by in life with the skill you have by 13. The point is that education should increase productivity and skill within a country to make it excel economically. Lowering peoples access to tertiary education only stifles a country and requires epic proportions of imports instead.

[Smifffy]

Lol improving the 3 Rs goes on for the rest of your lifetime, but you can easily get by in life with the skill you have by 13. The point is that education should increase productivity and skill within a country to make it excel economically. Lowering peoples access to tertiary education only stifles a country and requires epic proportions of imports instead.

Why waste time teaching 3r's when we can get Indians that know their 3rs for a dime a dozen?

Kiwi kids don't want to learn, and can subsist on the dole, so what's the problem?

[superman]

Why waste time teaching 3r's when we can get Indians that know their 3rs for a dime a dozen?

Kiwi kids don't want to learn, and can subsist on the dole, so what's the problem?

And away overseas I run. :innocent:

[Smifffy]

And away overseas I run. :innocent:

Of my year at high school, I think I am one of about 6 that are still here. One of us is returned after making a fortune in the UK.

P.S I've never been to the UK myself.

[Bikemad]

Lol improving the 3 Rs goes on for the rest of your lifetime, but you can easily get by in life with the skill you have by 13. The point is that education should increase productivity and skill within a country to make it excel economically. Lowering peoples access to tertiary education only stifles a country and requires epic proportions of imports instead.
sorry man...........but i seriously doubt the kids i see nowdays at 13 would get by in life,unless they had a pimp or a milf,i agree in a perfect world education should do as you say and i never said anything about lowering access for people to education as such.......but at 18 you are an adult,you make the choice to accept an interest free loan from the taxpayer to further your career and make the big bucks so why cant you return the favour to the taxpayer later in the equation with an interest free loan??

[Brian d marge]

And away overseas I run. :innocent:

its great over here , good money , dont have to work to hard . Health care good . Pension good
House only 30 % of me income ,,,,,

beer cheap and strong , ciggies only a few pennies and a short boat ride I can get me one ofg these 237409

yours in the one with an extra bit

Stephen

[Smifffy]

its great over here , good money , dont have to work to hard . Health care good . Pension good
House only 30 % of me income ,,,,,

beer cheap and strong , ciggies only a few pennies and a short boat ride I can get me one ofg these 237409

yours in the one with an extra bit

Stephen

Other than the usual whinging, the pom I used to work with, living in Thailand has no complaints...

:msn-wink:

[matdaymon]

Bloody hell what a read!
I spent a year flipping burgers at the local McD's before I decided on what uni course/career I'd like to do. Then After I had worked out what course I'd like to do, I had to go through a selection process in order to get in.
Now I have a student loan with an extra $2k on it than I would like and growing thanks to illness causing me to fail/drop a few papers and the inability of me to find even part time work in this shitty little economy we have.

Simple matter of fact, getting the loan is the easiest part of study. You then need to bust your nuts in studying not pissing around at the pub or dicking around with mates and then once you have made it through the 3+ years of studentism you get to attempt to find a job in the current job market. Most of my mates are still applying for jobs as some people have explained, employers want experience not a piece of paper. Yet how the frick is anyone going to get experience if they can't get a job in the first place????

Don't get me started on the waste of time courses... Maori Media @ AUT is one that grinds me off to no end. Kids coming in at 18, dicking around because they are on Maori scholarships then dropping out because they never had a hope in hell of passing in the first place but reap the rewards of ethnicity for a good year or so while they work it out!

So thank you very much, I will take my interest free student loan, with course related costs, course fees and a Student "living costs" (which you can barely live off), and I will pay it back in my own fucking time unless someone gives me a winning lotto ticket in the near future.
/rant over

*I'm studying towards a BCS at AUT working towards a major in Radio. An industry not known for being well paid until you have worked your ass off for a few years doing the shit jobs. I am willing to put myself through this because I want a career, not a job that I will hate after 6months.

[Smifffy]

Bloody hell what a read!
I spent a year flipping burgers at the local McD's before I decided on what uni course/career I'd like to do. Then After I had worked out what course I'd like to do, I had to go through a selection process in order to get in.
Now I have a student loan with an extra $2k on it than I would like and growing thanks to illness causing me to fail/drop a few papers and the inability of me to find even part time work in this shitty little economy we have.

Simple matter of fact, getting the loan is the easiest part of study. You then need to bust your nuts in studying not pissing around at the pub or dicking around with mates and then once you have made it through the 3+ years of studentism you get to attempt to find a job in the current job market. Most of my mates are still applying for jobs as some people have explained, employers want experience not a piece of paper. Yet how the frick is anyone going to get experience if they can't get a job in the first place????

Don't get me started on the waste of time courses... Maori Media @ AUT is one that grinds me off to no end. Kids coming in at 18, dicking around because they are on Maori scholarships then dropping out because they never had a hope in hell of passing in the first place but reap the rewards of ethnicity for a good year or so while they work it out!

So thank you very much, I will take my interest free student loan, with course related costs, course fees and a Student "living costs" (which you can barely live off), and I will pay it back in my own fucking time unless someone gives me a winning lotto ticket in the near future.
/rant over

*I'm studying towards a BCS at AUT working towards a major in Radio. An industry not known for being well paid until you have worked your ass off for a few years doing the shit jobs. I am willing to put myself through this because I want a career, not a job that I will hate after 6months.

Radio? Right. We been screaming out for them for fuckin' years now. I know for a fact that the GM at my work goes round and round every day saying "If only we had somebody that really knew radio, we'd be able to bust our way out of this recession and really make a difference."

So English/kiwi radio is so much more relevant than Maori radio eh? I never knew that.

[matdaymon]

Was thinking more along the lines of the dropkicks who come in during the first year, start the papers then leave the rest of us hanging in group assignments by giving up and not showing up. Sorry should have been more clear and not been so discriminatory sounding :facepalm: my bad.

NZ has a bucket full of useless degrees. And yes, I would say there is a bigger more relevant market for English speaking Radio/media degrees than there is for Maori. You've got a very small market for ethnic media which doesn't support the numbers of students entering into the system.

I agree with those who say it needs to be harder to get into uni. Would solve some of the student loan problem as there would be a higher chance of people passing.

[Smifffy]

Was thinking more along the lines of the dropkicks who come in during the first year, start the papers then leave the rest of us hanging in group assignments by giving up and not showing up. Sorry should have been more clear and not been so discriminatory sounding :facepalm: my bad.

NZ has a bucket full of useless degrees. And yes, I would say there is a bigger more relevant market for English speaking Radio/media degrees than there is for Maori. You've got a very small market for ethnic media which doesn't support the numbers of students entering into the system.

I agree with those who say it needs to be harder to get into uni. Would solve some of the student loan problem as there would be a higher chance of people passing.

Ok, IMO media studies graduates, whether Maori, English, Russian or Vogon, belong on Douglas Adam's spaceship B.

Even if you are going to be the next Rick Dees, or Walton and Johnson, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walton_%26_Johnson_Show)
then you don't really need a tax payer loan.

[Brian d marge]

if they do asian studies , Im up for another 40k

they better be good for that price , only $100 us here

Stephen

[superman]

sorry man...........but i seriously doubt the kids i see nowdays at 13 would get by in life,unless they had a pimp or a milf,i agree in a perfect world education should do as you say and i never said anything about lowering access for people to education as such.......but at 18 you are an adult,you make the choice to accept an interest free loan from the taxpayer to further your career and make the big bucks so why cant you return the favour to the taxpayer later in the equation with an interest free loan??

You hardly have any good career options without university. To say that that should be paid by the student is ridiculous. What about all those from lower income areas, how are they ever going to afford tertiary even if they want to progress, instead they'll sit copying their parents becoming dole bludgers or low paid leaning on shovel workers.

The fact they call it a loan in the first place is stupid, do you expect all the baby boomers to pay back their free tertiary education?

The universities lead the country with research and education, and to say it's something you should pay for yourself at full 100% price is saying that the country doesn't care at all whether you further your education from where it stops at high school. Good message to send across to NZ's already under educated lot.

[Bald Eagle]

There are a lot of us out here with steady jobs, homes, wives, and kids without the benefit of a university education, contributing to society are we not valuable.

[marty]

its great over here , good money , dont have to work to hard . Health care good . Pension good
House only 30 % of me income ,,,,,

beer cheap and strong , ciggies only a few pennies and a short boat ride I can get me one ofg these 237409

yours in the one with an extra bit

Stephen

SO here, after studying hard and not getting a SL (the SL I do have is not in my direct field of work.... :) ), I earn pretty good $$, have a world class health plan, my house costs me <10% of my net (combined) income, and frankly, asian girls just don't do it for me...

I'm pretty happy :)

[trustme]

Your most valuable asset is the ability to earn a living

You don't value the things you get for free.

My son is a flying instructor, his SL is horrendous. however he thinks the tightening up will be good, he will no longer have to waste his time on drop kicks who will never make the grade as long as their arse points down.

Superman ;- there are a hell of a lot of career opportunities that don't require uni, & some of them pay pretty damn well, hired a sparkie or a plumber lately

[Indiana_Jones]

Superman ;- there are a hell of a lot of career opportunities that don't require uni, & some of them pay pretty damn well, hired a sparkie or a plumber lately

I'm with TM on this one.

Most kids at school today have the uni stuff rammed down their throats and think they have no choice but to go if they want any hope in life at all.

Some people are just not made for uni really, myself one of them, and prefer trades and technical jobs. Sure a lot of those jobs need training, but a lot is on job and at technical college.

It just seems like kids are being told it's a bad thing to get your hands dirty or going to tech is for dumb arses...

-Indy

[steve_t]

I'm with TM on this one.

Most kids at school today have the uni stuff rammed down their throats and think they have no choice but to go if they want any hope in life at all.

Some people are just not made for uni really, myself one of them, and prefer trades and technical jobs. Sure a lot of those jobs need training, but a lot is on job and at technical college.

It just seems like kids are being told it's a bad thing to get your hands dirty or going to tech is for dumb arses...

-Indy

+1 If I was doing it all again, I'd be a sparky or plumber :yes:

[avgas]

It just seems like kids are being told it's a bad thing to get your hands dirty or going to tech is for dumb arses...
Yes and No.
There is "working with your hands to earn coin" and "breaking your back"
I fear that most of the families whom are in the latter category see Uni as a way out of the cycle for their kids.

[Indiana_Jones]

Yes and No.
There is "working with your hands to earn coin" and "breaking your back"
I fear that most of the families whom are in the latter category see Uni as a way out of the cycle for their kids.

Fair call, I was refering to the former. Not talking about ditch digging or holding up the stop/go sign.

-Indy

[steve_t]

Fair call, I was refering to the former. Not talking about ditch digging or holding up the stop/go sign.

-Indy

Back in the 90's, my flatmate was the stop/go girl at roadworks. She was on $22 an hour!! Apparently, the job's quite dangerous...
I was on $7.60 an hour at pizza hut :facepalm:

[Indiana_Jones]

Back in the 90's, my flatmate was the stop/go girl at roadworks. She was on $22 an hour!! Apparently, the job's quite dangerous...
I was on $7.60 an hour at pizza hut :facepalm:

Luxury!, when I was working at Cuntdown in the mid early 2000s I was on $6.80 an hour! :sunny:

Oh we used to dream of living in a corridor!

-Indy

[short-circuit]

SO here, after studying hard and not getting a SL (the SL I do have is not in my direct field of work.... :) ), I earn pretty good $$, have a world class health plan, my house costs me <10% of my net (combined) income, and frankly, asian girls just don't do it for me...

I'm pretty happy :)

That's nice for you - would harzard a guess that those kinds of employment opportunities (not requiring tertiary training) are pretty rare

[short-circuit]

I'm with TM on this one.

Most kids at school today have the uni stuff rammed down their throats and think they have no choice but to go if they want any hope in life at all.

Some people are just not made for uni really, myself one of them, and prefer trades and technical jobs. Sure a lot of those jobs need training, but a lot is on job and at technical college.

It just seems like kids are being told it's a bad thing to get your hands dirty or going to tech is for dumb arses...

-Indy

Polytechs still cost equivalent fees to university

[short-circuit]

You hardly have any good career options without university. To say that that should be paid by the student is ridiculous. What about all those from lower income areas, how are they ever going to afford tertiary even if they want to progress, instead they'll sit copying their parents becoming dole bludgers or low paid leaning on shovel workers.

The fact they call it a loan in the first place is stupid, do you expect all the baby boomers to pay back their free tertiary education?

The universities lead the country with research and education, and to say it's something you should pay for yourself at full 100% price is saying that the country doesn't care at all whether you further your education from where it stops at high school. Good message to send across to NZ's already under educated lot.

That's the intention rather than the side effect - keep the masses dumb and keep the poor poor. That's how you maintain a class system

[Oblivion]

At least we are not like the Americans where dropkicks are treated as cannon fodder for the egotistic military.

[avgas]

At least we are not like the Americans where dropkicks are treated as cannon fodder for the egotistic military.

No its much better to teach them a life of lazyness

[Oblivion]

No its much better to teach them a life of lazyness

Is that why armchairs are the symbol of American culture then? :innocent:

[Indiana_Jones]

Polytechs still cost equivalent fees to university

Tech isn't cheaper by any means, but companies can and will support people through it and provide them with experience.

Some will pay for the courses, subject to a return of service.

Get trained, earn money and once you're all done you'll end up working for the said company. If you don't want to, then you still have the piece of paper and the real world experience.

-Indy

[Smifffy]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/professor-deeply-hurt-by-students-evaluation,20130/

Leon Rothberg, Ph.D., a 58-year-old professor of English Literature at Ohio State University, was shocked and saddened Monday after receiving a sub-par mid-semester evaluation from freshman student Chad Berner. The circles labeled 4 and 5 on the Scan-Tron form were predominantly filled in, placing Rothberg’s teaching skill in the “below average” to “poor” range...

[Brian d marge]

SO here, after studying hard and not getting a SL (the SL I do have is not in my direct field of work.... :) ), I earn pretty good $$, have a world class health plan, my house costs me <10% of my net (combined) income, and frankly, asian girls just don't do it for me...

I'm pretty happy :)
I take it you dont live in West Auckland then . and being given the house by you mum doesn't count

Stephen

btw , 10 % on any house in NZ , is one hell of a cheap house or you work as a consultant

[Bald Eagle]

you work as a consultant

That's a delightful oxymoron.

[marty]

I take it you dont live in West Auckland then . and being given the house by you mum doesn't count

Stephen

btw , 10 % on any house in NZ , is one hell of a cheap house or you work as a consultant

No - I live in Cambridge.

And my parents gave me $1000 towards my first house in 1989 - I paid that back in 1990 and have not borrowed a cent from them since. In my 5th house now - $800k worth, and have nearly cleaned out my mortgage.

And I'm not a consultant.

[Indiana_Jones]

In my 5th house now - $800k worth, and have nearly cleaned out my mortgage.

*ziiiiiiip*

Well since we're all gonna compare.... :woohoo:

-Indy

[marty]

*ziiiiiiip*

Well since we're all gonna compare.... :woohoo:

-Indy

was only replying to brian's suggestion that i hadn't worked to get where i am. if however the govt wants to give me free money that is now less worth than it was when i spent it, then i'm gonna use it!

i hadn't even considered comparing penis size. takes a special thought process to go there

[steve_t]

No - I live in Cambridge.

And my parents gave me $1000 towards my first house in 1989 - I paid that back in 1990 and have not borrowed a cent from them since. In my 5th house now - $800k worth, and have nearly cleaned out my mortgage.

And I'm not a consultant.

I say good on ya for working hard and getting yourself to where you are now. I hope to be like that in my coming years. I'm sure by the time I look to buy a house like your current one, it'll cost me twice as much as it's worth now.
You work for the government don't you, Marty?

[marty]

Not since 2004. I devote my work-life to the National Carrier now :)

[avgas]

Is that why armchairs are the symbol of American culture then? :innocent:

The draft only reaches so far inside the house.......

[Smifffy]

Not since 2004. I devote my work-life to the National Carrier now :)

Hepatitis? :shit:

[avgas]

In my 5th house now - $800k worth, and have nearly cleaned out my mortgage.
So your part of the problem with house prices then.......:corn:

I am just messing with ya - congrats and all that.
I once borrowed $500 from my dad back in 95. I think all up it has cost me about $25,000 to repay that debt. Never going to borrow money from family again.
Give me the banks any day.

[marty]

funny enough though - we're just looking at selling up and downgrading to a smaller house/townhouse. would be nice to be able to stop working shiftwork and just go playing.

[Oblivion]

funny enough though - we're just looking at selling up and downgrading to a smaller house/townhouse. would be nice to be able to stop working shiftwork and just go playing.

You can. Its called retirement. I think it usually happens when you reach 65 :blink:

I would feel glad to retire before I would reach retirement age though. Maybe 40. :woohoo:

[Bald Eagle]

Doesn't always come out as you expect though, freehold at 40 on ten acres etc, now divorced remarried reloacted renting - looking to get deposit on a house again - it's a funny old thing life.

[steve_t]

My house is in a trust. My GF isn't very happy about that :shutup::innocent:

[marty]

You can. Its called retirement. I think it usually happens when you reach 65 :blink:

I would feel glad to retire before I would reach retirement age though. Maybe 40. :woohoo:

43 here.

not retiring, just refocussing.

[steve_t]

43 here.

not retiring, just refocussing.

WTF?! Spring chicken! with a near freehold house. Doubly good going!
The retirement age will probably have been raised by the time we all get there

[Oblivion]

WTF?! Spring chicken! with a near freehold house. Doubly good going!
The retirement age will probably have been raised by the time we all get there

Its a thing thats always just out reach isn't it. Then you wait until you can get there without it moving away again. :rofl:

[Brian d marge]

was only replying to brian's suggestion that i hadn't worked to get where i am. if however the govt wants to give me free money that is now less worth than it was when i spent it, then i'm gonna use it!

i hadn't even considered comparing penis size. takes a special thought process to go there

Now be careful young fella me lad , I never said you didn't work to get where you are , what i did imply was that you are not the norm

the norm is 350 000 and dual income ,,,sort of thing

Stephen

[marty]

being given the house by you mum doesn't count

Stephen


that wasn't what i got from that comment, but the delivery on line is always difficult.

[Swoop]

30 years ago I was told I wouldn't make a Vinyl Layer as long as my arse pointed to the ground...30 years on, I am still doing it.
So the rectal inversion operation was a success?:scratch:

I devote my work-life to the National Carrier now
Ah! Jet Star!:whistle:

I hear that the wages are 30% less than those flying for the Australian part of the company. Thank you NZ labour laws.

[Brian d marge]

that wasn't what i got from that comment, but the delivery on line is always difficult.
no thats my bad , i was covering all bases .. oops

we have three essential problems , 1. what goes on in my head
2. the journey towards the fingers
and 3. the execution . any one of which are liable to screw up

Stephen

[marty]

So the rectal inversion operation was a success?:scratch:

Ah! Jet Star!:whistle:

I hear that the wages are 30% less than those flying for the Australian part of the company. Thank you NZ labour laws.

goes on all over the world - ryanair is a classic example.

i have a couple of mates contracting to jet* as engineers - earning pretty good 6-figure $$ and based in auckland/wellington, but airnz guys doing similar work are earning similar as FTE's, so we can't really complain. bottom line is, an airnz certifying engineer does pretty good over here. the word is a qantas 380 certifying engineer earns around 200k but that is only the word - i've yet to hear it from a reliable source.

now FLYING pay? that's a touchy topic. guys do complain very loudly for only earning $120k for crossing the ditch and back in a shiny jet with coffee and hosties every day

[Swoop]

now FLYING pay? that's a touchy topic.
Sorry, my fault. I was meaning flying pay.
Was talking to a captain the other day and he had a few interesting comparisons to make regarding Aus Vs NZ parts of the company. Not a lot of happy staff apparently...

[Brian d marge]

Gone

Last one out , turn the lights off

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/australia/4947710/Mass-exodus-to-Aussie-continues

Stephen

[Indiana_Jones]

Gone

Last one out , turn the lights off

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/australia/4947710/Mass-exodus-to-Aussie-continues

Stephen

237801 :sunny:

-Indy

[quazimoto]

depends what degree you do aswell, Soooo many of my mates were believers of the "if you dont go to uni your a looser" line tht they went into BA's and are just like its been said here, finished with a degree and no better of than when they started, infact 30 grand worse off.. i took 3 years of and worked full time, decided i wanted more thn 450 a week and got into a Bsc degree at au, i enjoy it so its not, not fun time but by no means is it FUN TIMES!.

[steve_t]

depends what degree you do aswell, Soooo many of my mates were believers of the "if you dont go to uni your a looser" line tht they went into BA's and are just like its been said here, finished with a degree and no better of than when they started, infact 30 grand worse off.. i took 3 years of and worked full time, decided i wanted more thn 450 a week and got into a Bsc degree at au, i enjoy engineering so its not, not fun time but by no means is it FUN TIMES!.

Your point would probably come across better if your spelling etc was better ;) Just saying :innocent::shutup: