Quota? What quota?

[The Stranger]

Hey at least we don't have them right.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/12/local/la-me-ticket-quotas-20110412

Hard case how American lawmakers can see the patently obvious flaw in this system but not their NZ counterparts!

[Berries]

If a traffic cop in NZ can't hand out 30 proper tickets in a day they should be sacked. We've all seen the shit out there that isn't enforced. Give me a mufti car for a week and I'd break all records.

[YellowDog]

I was out delivering the other day, up one road and down the other side. An unmarked cop car pulled 6 separate vehicles over on that same streatch of road in the space of about 15 minutes.

How to make friends and influence people :no:

[pete376403]

Not a quota, a "goal". There as here.
"Lauer denied in testimony that there had been a stated quota, saying instead that there was "apparently some confusion" among officers over the use of the number 18 on evaluations, which she said had probably been "a goal" for officers instead of a quota"






yeah right.

[The Stranger]

Not a quota, a "goal". There as here.
"Lauer denied in testimony that there had been a stated quota, saying instead that there was "apparently some confusion" among officers over the use of the number 18 on evaluations, which she said had probably been "a goal" for officers instead of a quota"

yeah right.

Come on,it's not her fault, the poor innocent thing was simply misunderstood - by an entire force of imbeciles (insert sarcasm smilie).
One wonders how she got her job being such a bad communicator and all.

[Latte]

Come on,it's not her fault, the poor innocent thing was simply misunderstood - by an entire force of imbeciles (insert sarcasm smilie).
One wonders how she got her job being such a bad communicator and all.

There's no emoticon for poking you're tongue into the side of your cheek. And moving your hand back and forward in front of your mouth...

.. but if there was ;)

[Gremlin]

Come on,it's not her fault, the poor innocent thing was simply misunderstood
but of course. They clearly said it was a goal...

It's obvious it was a witch hunt. Those poor cops just trying raise the performance of their officers.

:lol:

[CookMySock]

Those poor cops just trying raise the performance of their officers.Do they have problems performing? :shutup:

[Edbear]

If a traffic cop in NZ can't hand out 30 proper tickets in a day they should be sacked. We've all seen the shit out there that isn't enforced. Give me a mufti car for a week and I'd break all records.

I'm more surprised that the bosses aren't complaining of too many being given out. The standard of driving is deplorable and I reckon I could write that many too! Maybe down in Scummies area there simply aren't enough cars but up here in Auckland, one could get writer's cramp...

[Smifffy]

The thing is, there are plenty of worthy things to be writing them out for, rather than than the 5 km/h over in a passing lane on a public holiday bullshit that they resort to.

[CookMySock]

The standard of driving is deplorable and I reckon I could write that many too!Whut? :blink:
I think 99.9% of motorists behave very well on the road.

[MrKiwi]

Whut? :blink:
I think 99.9% of motorists behave very well on the road.

In several surveys 90% of drivers consider themselves to be better drivers than the average :gob:
Anecdotal experience would suggest the above opinions are grossly incorrect. Then there is the question of maths :shit:

[Swoop]

It's obvious it was a witch hunt. Those poor cops just trying raise the performance of their officers.
Up to the standard of Ex-commisioner Clint Ricards? Or should that be down to the standard...

[rastuscat]

There used to be a quota, now we can write as many as we want.

Tee hee.

[Ghost_Bullet]

When I saw the title of the thread, I was kinda excited... but then I realised the talk of a differing Quota to what was in my mind.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=367950532

[FJRider]

In several surveys 90% of drivers consider themselves to be better drivers than the average :gob:
Anecdotal experience would suggest the above opinions are grossly incorrect. Then there is the question of maths :shit:

ANYTHING DB says ... could be described as gross or incorrect ... often / usually both ...

[Toaster]

As a taxpayer and road-user I would expect police to provide a return for the funding they receive for road specific outputs.

The alternative is less police due to reduced funding to provide those services like HP or ACC Stop Buses.

Every employee, no matter where they work, are required to pull their weight and meet their output obligations as specified by their employer.

I for one appreciate the work they do to contribute to safer roads for me to enjoy and my family to travel on and hopefully have a better chance of getting home safe.

[rastuscat]

[QUOTE=Toaster;1130043161]As a taxpayer and road-user I would expect police to provide a return for the funding they receive for road specific outputs.[QUOTE]

Police receive approximately 21% of their annual funding through the gubbermint land transport fund.

Police spend less than 21% of their total funding on road policing.

Ergo, land transpoprt funding is subsidising the police functions, and if removed, would see a marked decrease in overall policing, not just road policing.

So there.

[Smifffy]

[QUOTE=Toaster;1130043161]As a taxpayer and road-user I would expect police to provide a return for the funding they receive for road specific outputs.[QUOTE]

Police receive approximately 21% of their annual funding through the gubbermint land transport fund.

Police spend less than 21% of their total funding on road policing.

Ergo, land transpoprt funding is subsidising the police functions, and if removed, would see a marked decrease in overall policing, not just road policing.

So there.

But the question is:

"What was the objective of the officer concerned during his 'chat' with the OP?"

To scare her off the road?

Once he had ascertained that she wasn't intoxicated/impaired herself, had a valid licence, wof & reg, then what further value was he really adding, other than to perpetuate the public view that some members of the force are just nutters?

I actually recently had an interaction with what I consider to be a rude and arrogant cop too. I wasn't speeding though, I was standing on my doorstep after opening the door to an officer who was seeking my assistance. I was happy to help him out as much as I could, but for the life of me I still cant work out why he would need my name & dob.

[SPman]

As a taxpayer and road-user I would expect police to provide a return for the funding they receive for road specific outputs.

Every employee, no matter where they work, are required to pull their weight and meet their output obligations as specified by their employer.

I for one appreciate the work they do to contribute to safer roads for me to enjoy and my family to travel on and hopefully have a better chance of getting home safe. Provide a return for funding! Fuck me, do something to provide a database recordable return which can have money charged against it like a lawyers office, or actually be out there and ensure traffic flows freely with minimal accidents and minimal interference from predatory egocentric, authoritarian bully boys!
It's about time people knew the difference between those functions of government which are involved with monetary income (Tax, etc), and those which are meant to be involved with the smooth running of a society, which has nothing to do with "paying it's way"!

I assume you where taking the piss..........if not.......oh dear..........:facepalm:

[oldrider]

As a taxpayer and road-user I would expect police to provide a return for the funding they receive for road specific outputs.

The alternative is less police due to reduced funding to provide those services like HP or ACC Stop Buses.

Every employee, no matter where they work, are required to pull their weight and meet their output obligations as specified by their employer.

I for one appreciate the work they do to contribute to safer roads for me to enjoy and my family to travel on and hopefully have a better chance of getting home safe.

My only considered response to that is:

If it is so bad out there with an under performing police management team, what would it be like without a police force at all?

I shudder to think! :facepalm:

Perhaps we (NZ) have an under performing police force simply because we are an under performing general public! :yes:

(pot, kettle, pot, kettle, monkey see, monkey do!))

[red mermaid]

Thats because you may not have any training in investigative interviewing.

If required later in court, he can now state he spoke to a person who gave his details as such and such, and thereby identify you reasonably clearly.





I actually recently had an interaction with what I consider to be a rude and arrogant cop too. I wasn't speeding though, I was standing on my doorstep after opening the door to an officer who was seeking my assistance. I was happy to help him out as much as I could, but for the life of me I still cant work out why he would need my name & dob.

[Laava]

If a traffic cop in NZ can't hand out 30 proper tickets in a day they should be sacked. We've all seen the shit out there that isn't enforced. Give me a mufti car for a week and I'd break all records.

That wasn't you that pulled me in a transition from 50-80km down Onerahi hill and ticketed me for 66 was it? Fuckin unfriendly nit-picking-quota filling bitch!

[Berries]

Unlikely. With that attitude I would have tasered you, impounded the bike and had a Police dog shit in your mouth.:wacko:

[Laava]

Fuck! It was you!

[YellowDog]

If a traffic cop in NZ can't hand out 30 proper tickets in a day they should be sacked. We've all seen the shit out there that isn't enforced. Give me a mufti car for a week and I'd break all records.

There in lies the problem.

It seems that cops are being pressurised into going after the low hanging fruit by harrassing safe road users, whom may be driving with all due care and attention to others, and letting all the crap driving get away, 'cos it takes more effort and won't help them easily make their quotas.

Hence NZ is turning into a Police state with young cops thinking their gods gift in exercising their new found power and authority, with very little discretion or experience. Such power for the young and inexperienced is not a good thing. I'm sure the training course is very good, but clearly it is not enough. Maybe the Police should only allow grownups to do such work?

It is quite offencive having a 20 year old with a couple years of driving experience under his/her belt telling you what a bad road user you are. Some seem to think they are qualified to do such work.

Why not focus on bad and dangerous drivers rather than the trivia many cops go after to make up their numbers. We see lots of really bad stuff on the road. Mr Plod doesn't get them because he's too busy chasing the easy low hanging fruit.

No offence intended to anyone at all, however this is my personal observation of road policing around Auckland.

[quazimoto]

I was out delivering the other day, up one road and down the other side. An unmarked cop car pulled 6 separate vehicles over on that same streatch of road in the space of about 15 minutes.

How to make friends and influence people :no:

2.5mins per car, now thats efficieny.

[YellowDog]

2.5mins per car, now thats efficieny.

I may have over cooked that one. 20 minutes each way is more likely.

[rastuscat]

There in lies the problem. It seems that cops are being pressurised into going after the low hanging fruit by harrassing safe road users, whom may be driving with all due care and attention to others............................Why not focus on bad and dangerous drivers rather than the trivia many cops go after to make up their numbers. We see lots of really bad stuff on the road. Mr Plod doesn't get them because he's too busy chasing the easy low hanging fruit.

Are you the low hanging fruit?

You got it in one. The problem with a quota is that it encourages blind compliance, wherein the troops focus on ticket numbers instead of ticket quality.

If I told my troops that they had to write 20 tickets each day, they'd go out and write the 20 easiest tickets they could find. It's human nature. If there's a target, people try to hit it.

What matters is the quality of work. For the record, there are measures of the category of tickets people write. Per example, I can check how many seatbelt tickets, or how many stop sign tickets my troops write. I could also check how many vehicle licensing tickets they write, but at my level, nobody ever does that check. It's basically by-catch, you know, the ones you get when you are looking for other ones. Like fishing. Stop enough people for breath testing, evenetually you'll find someone with an expired license label.

So, please moan about the real issue, the quality of the work. You're missing the point by grizzling about the quantity.

That said, I regard lots of things as quality that maybe you don't. Red lights, quality. No question. Orange lights, huge deterrent factor, quality. Seatbelts, quality.

Turning into the wrong lane? Depends. If someone gets cut off, quality. If not, maybe not. It's quite subjective. A purest would say that turning into the wrong lane is a fundamental driving error that pisses people off, others would say that if nobody else is around, what harm is done? Not indicating is the same. It cheeses us all off, but people who don't indicate either think they did, or don't think it's worth a $150 ticket.

Thing is, driving is a habit. If we see someone do something dumb and nobody is effected, should we ignore it? I think not, as it we allow a driving error to become habit, one day that habit will take someone out.

Just my frustrated thoughts.

Donuts. So there.

[Gremlin]

Turning into the wrong lane? Depends. If someone gets cut off, quality. If not, maybe not. It's quite subjective. A purest would say that turning into the wrong lane is a fundamental driving error that pisses people off, others would say that if nobody else is around, what harm is done? Not indicating is the same. It cheeses us all off, but people who don't indicate either think they did, or don't think it's worth a $150 ticket.
Taking it off on a tangent... I do believe that's how we get the bad driving. Oh, there's no-one around, I don't need to indicate. That progresses over time to, oh, there's no-one in my immediate vicinity, no need to indicate (perhaps a blind spot catches them out now and then). Eventually turns into the habit of not bothering to indicate.

Gets as far as I almost got taken out when a guy didn't indicate. Next light, I got off the bike and spoke to him. Of course, he said he didn't see me, and I replied, it doesn't matter, just indicate, so you let others know your intentions. Right after the light, he failed to indicate a lane change.

Good luck with your crusade.

Chocolate mud cake. Yum.

[MSTRS]

... focus on ... ticket quality.



Good idea. I've seen some that even a pharmacist couldn't read...:innocent:

[dangerous]

Quota? What quota?

THIS Quota :yes: 237168 no, not that Quota... ohh sorry, ok Ill go back were I came from :facepalm:

[The Stranger]

In several surveys 90% of drivers consider themselves to be better drivers than the average :gob:
Anecdotal experience would suggest the above opinions are grossly incorrect. Then there is the question of maths :shit:

I would have thought those figures to be accurate and more a reflection of poor survey methodology.
How does one define a good driver? I'm sure that there are some traits we will all agree on, but I'm also sure there will be many things some will consider more important than others. Without a good definition it is up to the individual to assess against their own yard stick - which incidentally is how they drive.

[The Stranger]

Taking it off on a tangent... I do believe that's how we get the bad driving. Oh, there's no-one around, I don't need to indicate. That progresses over time to, oh, there's no-one in my immediate vicinity, no need to indicate (perhaps a blind spot catches them out now and then). Eventually turns into the habit of not bothering to indicate.

Gets as far as I almost got taken out when a guy didn't indicate. Next light, I got off the bike and spoke to him. Of course, he said he didn't see me, and I replied, it doesn't matter, just indicate, so you let others know your intentions. Right after the light, he failed to indicate a lane change.

Good luck with your crusade.

Chocolate mud cake. Yum.

Agreed.
THE most important reason to indicate is for those you don't see.

[The Stranger]

Are you the low hanging fruit?

You got it in one. The problem with a quota is that it encourages blind compliance, wherein the troops focus on ticket numbers instead of ticket quality.

If I told my troops that they had to write 20 tickets each day, they'd go out and write the 20 easiest tickets they could find. It's human nature. If there's a target, people try to hit it.

What matters is the quality of work. For the record, there are measures of the category of tickets people write. Per example, I can check how many seatbelt tickets, or how many stop sign tickets my troops write. I could also check how many vehicle licensing tickets they write, but at my level, nobody ever does that check. It's basically by-catch, you know, the ones you get when you are looking for other ones. Like fishing. Stop enough people for breath testing, evenetually you'll find someone with an expired license label.

So, please moan about the real issue, the quality of the work. You're missing the point by grizzling about the quantity.

That said, I regard lots of things as quality that maybe you don't. Red lights, quality. No question. Orange lights, huge deterrent factor, quality. Seatbelts, quality.

Turning into the wrong lane? Depends. If someone gets cut off, quality. If not, maybe not. It's quite subjective. A purest would say that turning into the wrong lane is a fundamental driving error that pisses people off, others would say that if nobody else is around, what harm is done? Not indicating is the same. It cheeses us all off, but people who don't indicate either think they did, or don't think it's worth a $150 ticket.

Thing is, driving is a habit. If we see someone do something dumb and nobody is effected, should we ignore it? I think not, as it we allow a driving error to become habit, one day that habit will take someone out.

Just my frustrated thoughts.

Donuts. So there.

I still find it interesting that the yanks can see the folly of the quota system - and have the nouse to see straight through any hair splitting weasel name for it.

I also know that having managed building sites with up to 200 guys on them, you know from experience if someone is pulling their weight or not. I had no need to institute performance indicators, quotas or reporting.
Would it really take you long to figure out if plod is only issuing one ticket per day that he needs some attention without the use of a quota?
If so, it's damn poor reflection on his supervisor.

[Smifffy]

Agreed.
THE most important reason to indicate is for those you don't see.

...and stop shifting other people's bikes without permission eh?

:msn-wink:

:facepalm:

[scumdog]

Whut? :blink:
I think 99.9% of motorists behave very well on the road.

And 90% of them will tell you the same...:blink:

[scumdog]

Police receive approximately 21% of their annual funding through the gubbermint land transport fund.

Police spend less than 21% of their total funding on road policing.

Ergo, land transpoprt funding is subsidising the police functions, and if removed, would see a marked decrease in overall policing, not just road policing.

So there.

THAT is not what they want to read on KB.:no:


Too much fact and not enough emotional ranting clap-trap.

[The Stranger]

As a taxpayer and road-user I would expect police to provide a return for the funding they receive for road specific outputs.


Yes, good idea.
The Police also recieve funding for solving all manner of crimes. Perhaps the great unwashed masses would be more accepting of the performance indicator system if only the Police shifted focus to the performance indicator requirements that are currently in place for solving burglaries, rapes, assults and murders?

As a taxpayer and road-user I would expect police to provide a return for the funding they receive for these issues too.

Or is it only traffic Police that are want to skive off parked asleep under a tree all day?

[rastuscat]

I also know that having managed building sites with up to 200 guys on them, you know from experience if someone is pulling their weight or not. I had no need to institute performance indicators, quotas or reporting.

I challenge anyone to provide me with the figure that my staff have to write each day. Nobody can do it, as nobody has told me how many are expected.

Each day my troops write tickets, and submit their copies to my in-tray. I check them, and forward them to the system. That means I know how many each person is writing. I also know how many arrests each person makes, how many cars they impound from disqualified drivers, how many crashes they attend. I'm no different from you, I can tell who is and isn't working. Some of my troops lock more crooks up, some write more seatbelt tickets.

I also know who has lost a house in the earthquake, who has kids acting up, who is getting bogged down in paperwork. I'm the boss, but I'm also the friend who tries to protect them from the shit coming from the management and the public.

Each individual is different, but most on KB just lump them as revenue collecting bas****s, and think that their individual traffic stop for something they are innocent of is the greatest injustice ever visited upon man. Meanwhile, the cop believes that they have been looking for someone who breaks the rules, and that the person they have dealt with has done exactly what they are accused of. Hard to believe it is the same thing they each see from different points of view.

Just venting. Harumph.

[The Stranger]

Hard to believe it is the same thing they each see from different points of view.


Not really, wars are fought and millions have died on simply different points of view. That's not happened yet in traffic policing so I guess it can't be too bad.

[cheshirecat]

Each day my troops write tickets, and submit their copies to my in-tray.
And I thought your intray was just for donuts

[Spearfish]

Just venting. Harumph.

So what bike have you decided on?


Its been posted before but.......
This article was written by a cop who was killed in the line of duty two months later.



Well, Mr. Citizen, it seems you've figured me out. I seem to fit neatly into the category where you've placed me. I'm stereotyped, standardized, characterize, classified, grouped, and always typical. Unfortunately, the reverse is true I can never figure you out. From birth you teach your children that I'm the bogeyman, then you're shocked when they identify with my traditional enemy... The Criminal!

You accuse me of coddling criminals......Until I catch your kids doing wrong. You may take an hour for lunch and several coffee breaks each day, but point me out as a loafer for having one cup. You pride yourself on your manners, but think nothing of disrupting my meals with your troubles.

You raise hell with the guy who cuts you off in traffic, but let me catch you doing the same thing and I'm picking on you. You know all the traffic laws...but you've never gotten a single ticket you deserve. You shout "Foul!" if you observe me driving fast to a call, but raise the roof if I take more than ten seconds to respond to your complaint. You call it part of my job if someone strikes me, but call it police brutality if I strike back.

You wouldn't think of telling your dentist how to pull a tooth or your doctor how to take out an appendix, yet you're always willing to give me pointers on the law. You talk to me in a manner that would get you a bloody nose form anyone else, but expect me to take it without batting an eye. You yell something's got to be done to fight crime, but you can't be bothered to get involved.

You have no use for me at all, but of course it's OK if I change a flat for your wife, deliver your child in the back of the patrol car, or perhaps save your son's life with mouth to mouth breathing, or work many hours overtime looking for your lost daughter.

So, Mr. Citizen, you can stand there on your soapbox and rant and rave about the way I do my work, calling me every name in the book, but never stop to think that your property, family, or maybe even your life depends on me or one of my buddies.

Yes, Mr. Citizen, it's me... the lousy cop!

[superman]

Each individual is different, but most on KB just lump them as revenue collecting bas****s, and think that their individual traffic stop for something they are innocent of is the greatest injustice ever visited upon man. Meanwhile, the cop believes that they have been looking for someone who breaks the rules, and that the person they have dealt with has done exactly what they are accused of. Hard to believe it is the same thing they each see from different points of view.

Just venting. Harumph.

If you can show me how me going 4km/h over an open road limit on a straight costs tax payers $80 I'd happily pay and not complain. :yes:

[rastuscat]

And I thought your intray was just for donuts

Yeah, but my troops keep putting bloody paperwork in it.........:woohoo:

[rastuscat]

If you can show me how me going 4km/h over an open road limit on a straight costs tax payers $80 I'd happily pay and not complain. :yes:

The fine for 104 in a 100 area is $30.

The cost of processing that ticket is $26.

So thanks for the $4.

Crashes and injury (the risk of which increase with an increase in kinetic energy imparted) cost the country lots.

But please don't think of the thing as us out to get you. Don't speed, don't get ticketed. Simple.

[rastuscat]

So what bike have you decided on?

Sold the 1150GS today. I've had the F800ST for a week, and it's the only one I can afford to keep. Tres cool bike.

Interesting chats here on KB. I have a love hate relationship with it.

Like I have with my lawnmower.

Donuts.

[superman]

But please don't think of the thing as us out to get you. Don't speed, don't get ticketed. Simple.

So because the law's the law that is what I must follow and not question it.

That's like saying if it was against the law to lie, don't lie and you won't get a fine. Who says lying is worth a fine?! Who says that 104 on a straight in that area is worth a fine?! Enforcement officers do.

Yet I can go around a hairpin corner pushing my car as fast as I like as long as it doesn't break the speed limit and the wheels don't slip at all. :weird:

1.5 tonnes of glorious metal hooning around a tight corner and as long as I haven't quite pushed it too far it's fine... but 4km/h over and oh you better pull over and get some demerit points mate.

[MrKiwi]

I would have thought those figures to be accurate and more a reflection of poor survey methodology.
How does one define a good driver? I'm sure that there are some traits we will all agree on, but I'm also sure there will be many things some will consider more important than others. Without a good definition it is up to the individual to assess against their own yard stick - which incidentally is how they drive.

:facepalm:

[MrKiwi]

I challenge anyone to provide me with the figure that my staff have to write each day. Nobody can do it, as nobody has told me how many are expected.

Each day my troops write tickets, and submit their copies to my in-tray. I check them, and forward them to the system. That means I know how many each person is writing. I also know how many arrests each person makes, how many cars they impound from disqualified drivers, how many crashes they attend. I'm no different from you, I can tell who is and isn't working. Some of my troops lock more crooks up, some write more seatbelt tickets.

I also know who has lost a house in the earthquake, who has kids acting up, who is getting bogged down in paperwork. I'm the boss, but I'm also the friend who tries to protect them from the shit coming from the management and the public.

Each individual is different, but most on KB just lump them as revenue collecting bas****s, and think that their individual traffic stop for something they are innocent of is the greatest injustice ever visited upon man. Meanwhile, the cop believes that they have been looking for someone who breaks the rules, and that the person they have dealt with has done exactly what they are accused of. Hard to believe it is the same thing they each see from different points of view.

Just venting. Harumph.

:yes: You raise some good points.

[rastuscat]

but 4km/h over and oh you better pull over and get some demerit points mate.

Question the law. Don't keep bagging the individuals who are doing as they are paid to do by enforcing it.

Have a go at the Minister of Something, or the CEO of the govt body that makes the laws you object to. Don't have a go at the human who has to actually deliver the message.

[Smifffy]

Question the law. Don't keep bagging the individuals who are doing as they are paid to do by enforcing it.

Have a go at the Minister of Something, or the CEO of the govt body that makes the laws you object to. Don't have a go at the human who has to actually deliver the message.

Last I checked humans have free will and discretion. Many of the stops are just ego/power trips. Just like the emotive claptrap posted earlier, allegedly from "some cop who died 2 months later"

When was the last time any of your 'troops' administered mouth to mouth or personally saved a life?

Every single time they do, they are touted in the media and often acknowledged in a thread on here.

[superman]

Question the law. Don't keep bagging the individuals who are doing as they are paid to do by enforcing it.

Have a go at the Minister of Something, or the CEO of the govt body that makes the laws you object to. Don't have a go at the human who has to actually deliver the message.

Oh I get you, police follow their superiors only and can't think for themselves. Not like they could regulate laws themselves by just ticketing those they deem to be dangerous, which I'm sure lots of cops actually do. And for you to say that they shouldn't, and just follow the law by the letter is ridiculous and dehumanises the people you say are the same as us.

[Smifffy]

Oh yeah:

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/police.asp

[rastuscat]

When was the last time any of your 'troops' administered mouth to mouth or personally saved a life?

22 February, just after 12.51 p.m.

So there.

[Smifffy]

22 February, just after 12.51 p.m.

So there.

Well done!
Everyone did what they could that day.

[pete376403]

Question the law. Don't keep bagging the individuals who are doing as they are paid to do by enforcing it.

Have a go at the Minister of Something, or the CEO of the govt body that makes the laws you object to. Don't have a go at the human who has to actually deliver the message.

The Nuremberg Defence in other words.

[Smifffy]

The Nuremberg Defence in other words.

Oooh.

Godwin's law? End of thread?

[Smifffy]

Or the Milgram effect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[Spearfish]

Last I checked humans have free will and discretion. Many of the stops are just ego/power trips. Just like the emotive claptrap posted earlier, allegedly from "some cop who died 2 months later"

When was the last time any of your 'troops' administered mouth to mouth or personally saved a life?

Every single time they do, they are touted in the media and often acknowledged in a thread on here.

The same flavoured response was posted after the last time.
If hating cops is part of your biker identity then nothing will persuade your thinking any other way. c'est la vie

[Smifffy]

The same flavoured response was posted after the last time.
If hating cops is part of your biker identity then nothing will persuade your thinking any other way. c'est la vie

I don't hate cops at all. I just don't believe that they are always above criticism, and when they are occasionally criticised, even in constructive ways, members of the force leap to their defence, and label everybody cop haters and hero killers. :violin:

No wonder you all wear those heavy vests now if your skin is so thin.

I don't know the answer to the traffic woes, I'm fairly sure that heavily patrolling passing lanes, and the speed change areas outside of town don't do much to help.

[Spearfish]

I don't hate cops at all. I just don't believe that they are always above criticism, and when they are occasionally criticised, even in constructive ways, members of the force leap to their defence, and label everybody cop haters and hero killers. :violin:

No wonder you all wear those heavy vests now if your skin is so thin.

I don't know the answer to the traffic woes, I'm fairly sure that heavily patrolling passing lanes, and the speed change areas outside of town don't do much to help.

I'm no cop and I don't think anyone has all the answers.
All I know is the line has to be drawn somewhere, sometimes its drawn closer to your toes than it should be. But as far as bang for buck goes the authorities will always go for the bulk discount.

[Toaster]

Yes, good idea.
The Police also recieve funding for solving all manner of crimes. Perhaps the great unwashed masses would be more accepting of the performance indicator system if only the Police shifted focus to the performance indicator requirements that are currently in place for solving burglaries, rapes, assults and murders?

As a taxpayer and road-user I would expect police to provide a return for the funding they receive for these issues too.

Or is it only traffic Police that are want to skive off parked asleep under a tree all day?


The police do exactly that, however it is never news worthy. Only sensation sells papers and headlines. Rarely do plain simple facts end up in the news.

[The Stranger]

The police do exactly that, however it is never news worthy. Only sensation sells papers and headlines. Rarely do plain simple facts end up in the news.

Well hey, now's you chance to set the record straight. Please feel free to share them here with us. I for one am keen to learn and don't mind in the slightest accepting that I was wrong to assume that it only applied to traffic enforcement.

[Eyegasm]

Coming back from Levin over easter my mother (Who drives like a right Nana) hit a policeman with her wing mirror. I was in the passenger seat and didn't bloody see him. We stopped to see if he was alright and he gave the old lady a right bollocking...

To which I replied "Excuse me officer, but where is your hi-vis vest?"

He was outside of his patrol car at night doing god knows what.

Almost makes ya not want to stop and check...

[Bald Eagle]

Coming back from Levin over easter my mother (Who drives like a right Nana) hit a policeman with her wing mirror. I was in the passenger seat and didn't bloody see him. We stopped to see if he was alright and he gave the old lady a right bollocking...

To which I replied "Excuse me officer, but where is your hi-vis vest?"

He was outside of his patrol car at night doing god knows what.

Almost makes ya not want to stop and check...

Pity you didn't have one of them ACC Safety kits to give him :facepalm:

[superman]

Coming back from Levin over easter my mother (Who drives like a right Nana) hit a policeman with her wing mirror. I was in the passenger seat and didn't bloody see him. We stopped to see if he was alright and he gave the old lady a right bollocking...

To which I replied "Excuse me officer, but where is your hi-vis vest?"

He was outside of his patrol car at night doing god knows what.

Almost makes ya not want to stop and check...

:laugh: That is win!

[Toaster]

Well hey, now's you chance to set the record straight. Please feel free to share them here with us. I for one am keen to learn and don't mind in the slightest accepting that I was wrong to assume that it only applied to traffic enforcement.

Well if you believe everything you hear in media then you would say that. Crime stats are publicly available.

[The Stranger]

Well if you believe everything you hear in media then you would say that. Crime stats are publicly available.

Did they say that (that there are only performance indicators for traffic issues) in the media? No I miised that and no I don't believe everything I read in the media. Hence my questions to you and invitation to set the record straight.

You seem a little confused. Crime stats don't quantify individual performance (the purported reason for performance indicators).

From your answer it appears however that the media have got it right all the same.

[scumdog]

From your answer it appears however that the media have got it right all the same.


And I have a large bridge in Aucklad to sell to you too...

[The Stranger]

And I have a large bridge in Aucklad to sell to you too...

Aww so naive. I'm sure they promised you all sorts of things to get you to believe in "performance indicators" scummy and I truely hate to be the one to tell you this but - it's not really yours to sell.

You really must stop blindly lapping up everything your boss says and start thinking for yourself.

[scumdog]

Aww so naive. I'm sure they promised you all sorts of things to get you to believe in "performance indicators" scummy and I truely hate to be the one to tell you this but - it's not really yours to sell.

You really must stop blindly lapping up everything your boss says and start thinking for yourself.


You seem to know an awful lot about my job - for somebody that has never done it.:rolleyes:



Troll.

[The Stranger]

You seem to know an awful lot about my job - for somebody that has never done it.:rolleyes:



Troll.

Why thank you, however I do realise that there are some gaps in my knowledge, hence I enquired about the performance indicators for rape, burglaries etc as alluded to by toaster.

Just waiting patiently for a coherent response from the plods now.

[scumdog]

Just waiting patiently for a coherent response from the plods now.

Why??.....

[The Stranger]

Why??.....

Why what??

Why?? As in why waste my time because everyone knows toaster is full of shit and clearly the cops only care about quota when it comes to revenue.

Or Why?? As in why waste my time awaiting a coherent response from a copper when clearly they are incapable of coherent conversation.

Or Why?? As in why waste my time trying to acquire knowledge from people who clearly have none to offer.

Yes, why indeed?

[scumdog]

Why what??

Why?? As in why waste my time because everyone knows toaster is full of shit and clearly the cops only care about quota when it comes to revenue.

Or Why?? As in why waste my time awaiting a coherent response from a copper when clearly they are incapable of coherent conversation.

Or Why?? As in why waste my time trying to acquire knowledge from people who clearly have none to offer.

Yes, why indeed?


You claim I 'blindly lap up' everything my boss says - but yet you want a coherent? reply from me in which you appear to expect me to state something other than what my boss says...
Hmm..such a conumdrum...

BTW: I haven't figured out who this 'boss' is yet, you haven't given me a name.

So put me down as a combination of 'incapable of coherent conversation' and 'clearly have no knowledge to offer':whistle:

[MSTRS]

So put me down ...

I think that's his next step...he just needs to pick which of the 3 ways that could go.

[The Stranger]

You claim I 'blindly lap up' everything my boss says - but yet you want a coherent? reply from me in which you appear to expect me to state something other than what my boss says...
Hmm..such a conumdrum...

BTW: I haven't figured out who this 'boss' is yet, you haven't given me a name.

So put me down as a combination of 'incapable of coherent conversation' and 'clearly have no knowledge to offer':whistle:

Thank you. Given the level of ducking and weaving about, rather than addressing the issue we can safely conclude that there are no performance indicators (so necessary for traffic police) for the police whom carry out real duties. Which pretty much shows it for the sham it really is.

As if we didn't already know that of course.

But hey, I'm sure you'll have a come back which neatly skirts the topic yet again.

[pete376403]

You claim I 'blindly lap up' everything my boss says - but yet you want a coherent? reply from me in which you appear to expect me to state something other than what my boss says...
Hmm..such a conumdrum...

BTW: I haven't figured out who this 'boss' is yet, you haven't given me a name.

So put me down as a combination of 'incapable of coherent conversation' and 'clearly have no knowledge to offer':whistle:

OK, do you honestly believe that every law you are required to enforce is a "good" law? Are you allowed to have an opinion on that? And if you think its not good law do you enforce it anyway?

[scumdog]

to the last two posts:

Meh, does it matter??????

[Usarka]

Does honesty matter from our police? Obviously not.

[scumdog]

Does honesty matter from our police? Obviously not.

Do tell...

[The Stranger]

Meh, does it matter??????

Of course not, since when has open and frank discussion ever helped anyone.
It's clearly best when truth is concealed and the status quo of us v them is maintained.

[scumdog]

Unless I say what you WANT me to say it won't be good enough for several of you, will it? (regardless of the truth or facts)

So kiss ma ass suckers!

[Usarka]

Unless I say what you WANT me to say it won't be good enough for several of you, will it? (regardless of the truth or facts)

So kiss ma ass suckers!

Mwa! (eeeuuuuwwwww, floss :rofl:)

Actually we're not interested in whether our beliefs are proven right or not, we're after a straight answer as to whether there are individual performance targets for burglaries, rapes, assault charges etc.

[scumdog]

Mwa! (eeeuuuuwwwww, floss :rofl:)

Actually we're not interested in whether our beliefs are proven right or not, we're after a straight answer as to whether there are individual performance targets for burglaries, rapes, assault charges etc.


Short and sweet? There is.

[The Stranger]

to the last two posts:

Meh, does it matter??????


Unless I say what you WANT me to say it won't be good enough for several of you, will it? (regardless of the truth or facts)

So kiss ma ass suckers!

Man! I didn't see that coming now did I?
Who'd have thought you of all people would skirt around the topic?

[superman]

short and sweet? There is.

yaaaaaaaay... :confused: