Big changes coming.

[Big Dave]

Yamaha plans to make millions of electric scooters over the next 5 years.
Large scale automotive manufacturing centres are pouring millions into pre-production of electrical components.
These are obvious harbingers of major change on the way. You could only guess at the timetable, but like your Rachel on the Pantine Advert says - 'It will happen'.

I've ridden 2 electric bikes now. Don't give me the blah on 'why I love my reciprocating pistons'. Not only will electrics be viable, some will be highly desirable. Some won't. But they will take a chunk out of the fossil fueled 2 wheel vehicle market. Sure there are still range issues, but look at the exponential way that has been improving and you don't have to project too blindly to see it being workable. They are certainly commutable now. (Like Honda started maybe.)

So, some speculation.
Apparently China has lithium/inert battery production sewn up. One bike manufacturer told me 'there is no alternative but to deal with China for the fuel cells'. Does this mean that the middle east won't call the energy shots (unless the oil is needed to generate the electricity to power the vehicles). That's the down side. Power generation will need to increase manyfold to cover all the tankfulls that used to come from a pump.
Electricity infrastructure will be tested when a flood of industrial plugs enter the household?
Then what about the carbon credits - why are we even talking about it. Or do we burn that much more coal instead of 95?

Interesting times. Anybody have any salient facts to support or debunk.

[Latte]

I'd happily ride an electric bike , but I'd still want to have some petrol powered beasties as well (Big Twin and a 2 Smoke).

But, I've always wondered just how much greener electricity is than pump gas, creation of the fuel cells, the source of the elctricity etc. I guess over time that will become more efficient and renewable, where crude isn't getting any better anytime soon.

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[imdying]

If the Japs can release something half decent, then yes we're well on our way.

[scissorhands]

Its got to change. The otto cycle internal combustion engine is woefully inefficient. Cars are too big and heavy. John Britten designed a locally made plywood car that weighed only 400-500kg

The worlds car/bike fuel bill could half even only with smaller and lighter vehicles

No new technology... just smaller and more aerodynamic.

Add new technology like engine off when not moving or downhilling and that 50% reduction could be another 30%. So an 80% reduction could easily be achieved right now with tiny 2 seater 3 wheel lightweight bubbles with hybrid drives, aero shapes and solar roofs

[bogan]

Its got to change. The otto cycle internal combustion engine is woefully inefficient. Cars are too big and heavy. John Britten designed a locally made plywood car that weighed only 400-500kg

The worlds car/bike fuel bill could half even only with smaller and lighter vehicles

No new technology... just smaller and more aerodynamic.

Add new technology like engine off when not moving or downhilling and that 50% reduction could be another 30%. So an 80% reduction could easily be achieved right now with tiny 2 seater 3 wheel lightweight bubbles with hybrid drives, aero shapes and solar roofs

Fully agree, with the introduction of new tech come the opportunity to fix a lot of the inefficiencies which don't directly relate to that tech as well. As an example my electric bike has an ahr meter (basically power usage) and by changing my speed from about 500m back from traffic lights to ensure i rolled through rather than stopped and started again, I used around 15% less. Obtain a signal from the traffic lights and integrate with GPS for even better results and less conjestion.

Also, yes it will cause more draw on the power grid, but that is also an oppourtunity, higher efficiency generators can be rolled out quickly rather than waiting for millions of cars to change over to new technology. You could even run massive petrol powered generators and still use far less fuel.

Good to see progress in the electric vehicle sector, get all the commuters etc on it, and leave petrol for those who really enjoy using it :D

[george formby]

Im really looking forward to elecktrickery powered vehicles becoming main stream. I looked at a Piaggio MP3 hybrid a while back. The perfect vehicle for my daily commute but way to expensive new to justify it.

Technology is one thing but having enough resources to fuel it ( no pun intended ) is going to be the problem. Apparently something which is used in touch screens like i-phones etc will run out in the next few years & their is a rush to find a replacement.
Same thing applies to the batteries we use now, the stuff we use to make them is very finite so cost will always be high, its a closed market & finding alternatives costs squillions. Plugging in to recharge batteries IMHO is a short term fix & the first to market reaps the rewards.

Longer term I think hydrogen will become our main energy source whether it is used to make electricity to the socket or as a combustible fuel. As posted here recently a lattice has been created to store hydrogen & a Kiwi scientist in the US is working on using ammonia as the fuel medium.

Once the technology is proven we just need the infrastructure.

No doubt in coming decades we will see pure electrical & hydrogen powered vehicles come to the fore but the vehicles that do the heavy work will be hydrogen. We will be able to have fun with little, fast electric toys.

[Motu]

We've just had the low down and training on the Mitsubishi i-MiVEV,they are trialling some in Wellington.It just creams the petrol iCAR version.It's all there,ready to go...this is the closest we have come to viable electric vehicles,and it's certainly going to happen.The only problem with the i-MiVEV is that it is only an around town car...doing a trip would mean planning recharging stops.Changing the battery pack is a major job,not a slip in and out.

[Gremlin]

If Auckland could phase it's lights properly or just remove a bunch of the things (seriously, they have gone light crazy in East Tamaki) and replace with roundabouts, I reckon I could make some bloody good savings in consumption.

Many a time I move away from one light, only to be held up by the next, with the bike sitting idling. At night, they don't do on-demand properly, so you sit for a minute or two, with NOTHING COMING.

[Big Dave]

You'll pull into a 'battery station' and change power packs, not recharge on the road.

[Brian d marge]

http://prozza.com/movie/a_set/a.html

They sell these here and are quite reasonably priced

Stephen

[riffer]

I'd lke to see the power feed embedded into the road, so that vehicles can draw electricity from it, similar to buses.

[Indiana_Jones]

Electric Wolseley? ......:confused:

-Indy

[Big Dave]

Electric Wolseley? ......:confused:

-Indy

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UA5MtAmT24g?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Brett]

You'll pull into a 'battery station' and change power packs, not recharge on the road.

This is what I have heard about, not recharging a single battery fixed into the vehicle, but slotting in a new battery at some sort of battery charging stop. I think it is a great idea. I am excited about these advancements...but now to figure out how to capitalise on them....???

[Brett]

I'd lke to see the power feed embedded into the road, so that vehicles can draw electricity from it, similar to buses.

Cool idea, but logistical nightmare. Also does not allow users too much flexibility..think about a drive out into the country? Would work for main public transport around town though.

[Big Dave]

Bwahaah - sorry mate I didn't see you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA5MtAmT24g&feature=player_embedded#t=158s

[Motu]

You'll pull into a 'battery station' and change power packs, not recharge on the road.

That would be the way to go,but it requires a Government to put in the infrastructure...like back in the CNG and LPG days when you could fill up anywhere.Then the oil companies took over.The Mitsi electric car has a powerpack that needs special equipment to pull out....although a 2 or 4 post hoist and some sort of sturdy dolly would do the job.Until a standard is applied,the manufacturers will just go their own way.

[george formby]

This is what I have heard about, not recharging a single battery fixed into the vehicle, but slotting in a new battery at some sort of battery charging stop. I think it is a great idea. I am excited about these advancements...but now to figure out how to capitalise on them....???

Set up a franchise model now, get the investment & set up territory's for drive in nationwide battery exchanges.

Base them at petrol stations, tire fitters, wof stations, Mcdonalds, the Warehouse etc etc etc. The distribution network alone would be worth a fortune.

[Latte]

That would be the way to go,but it requires a Government to put in the infrastructure...like back in the CNG and LPG days when you could fill up anywhere.Then the oil companies took over.The Mitsi electric car has a powerpack that needs special equipment to pull out....although a 2 or 4 post hoist and some sort of sturdy dolly would do the job.Until a standard is applied,the manufacturers will just go their own way.

This is true. What will happen is manufacturers will Team up to create an industry standard (well, 2 or 3 competing industry standards) and the eventual loser(s) will be lost to history, like HD-DVD and Beta. Will really suck to be an early adopter in this case.

[bogan]

The problem with infrastructure investment is also it's solution, the speed at which this technology is evolving is pretty phenomenal. Nobody wants to invest in such things if they will be superceded by something that requires very little infrastructure, like supercapacitors would do away with the need for battery swapping stations. But supercaps would solve the distance problem :woohoo:

[Usarka]

This is what I have heard about, not recharging a single battery fixed into the vehicle, but slotting in a new battery at some sort of battery charging stop. I think it is a great idea. I am excited about these advancements...but now to figure out how to capitalise on them....???

There would have to be some sort of test done on them each time their refilled then. It'd suck to get given a dud that someone's just clocked up 5000 hours on.

[bogan]

There would have to be some sort of test done on them each time their refilled then. It'd suck to get given a dud that someone's just clocked up 5000 hours on.

Or put one in a less than certified homemade vehicle :innocent: Easy to do a capacity test as they are charged though. Swap batteries would have to have some fandangled connectors, as I know one electric bike maker claimed that a spanner dropped in the wrong place would be vaporised, and a hand cut in half :shit:

[scissorhands]

This is what I have heard about, not recharging a single battery fixed into the vehicle, but slotting in a new battery at some sort of battery charging stop. I think it is a great idea. I am excited about these advancements...but now to figure out how to capitalise on them....???

Without the drama of swapping battery's, charging stations could be a farmer on a ridge with a wind turbine and shed to connect at, no staff, electronic payment, surplus production is sold into the grid. Same with a dammed stream for mini hydro electric.

Still the 1/2 hour wait for a quick charge, would need to have a tea break at the recharge outlet.

Compressed air powered vehicles are easy to service and low cost replacement parts. Not as efficient as electric I think, but they make an inexpensive hybrid

We still have so much CNG in NZ.....

[bogan]

Compressed air powered vehicles are easy to service and low cost replacement parts. Not as efficient as electric I think, but they make an inexpensive hybrid

there is a guy at massey who made one of those, 30bucks worth of dive tank refill gets him about 3km I think :facepalm: hopefully others have done better?

Pedal electric fully faired bicycles are probably the most efficient transportation out there, not very safe or practical unfortunately.

[scissorhands]

there is a guy at massey who made one of those, 30bucks worth of dive tank refill gets him about 3km I think :facepalm: hopefully others have done better?

Its enough in a simple hybrid, 2 tanks in a 600kg Daihatsu should get you ten kilometers then. Braking regeneration and a small diesel would make a cheap running hybrid thats cheap to make, reliable and easy to service. Plus no environmental issues from batterys

[bogan]

Its enough in a simple hybrid, 2 tanks in a 600kg Daihatsu should get you ten kilometers then. Braking regeneration and a small diesel would make a cheap running hybrid thats cheap to make, reliable and easy to service. Plus no environmental issues from batterys

Air compression efficiency is inherently shit, as a lot of the work goes to heat generation, in that case the only gains would be the regen braking, unless you used all the waste heat to run a steam engine :D

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[CookMySock]

There would have to be some sort of test done on them each time their refilled then. It'd suck to get given a dud that someone's just clocked up 5000 hours on.Unless the batteries were leased to you or included as part of the price of the car - so you get a guaranteed battery for xx,000 km's and after that you pay another battery lease or park it up.

[bogan]

If you have some time check out this site

http://www.kiwiev.com/

I know its 4 wheels but the cost of doing a decent conversion is a major commitment of funds.

We live in interesting times.

this one (http://www.astara.co.nz/Astara/Electric_motorcycle_project.html) should interest you as well. I reckon electric motorcycles will be where it's at, cos you save so much in batteries etc by using a smaller vehicle, then save again in running costs. I would guess around 5k worth of components for a bike with similar performance, plus donor frame and time/know-how to put it together, so not too expensive imo.

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[Gubb]

but like your Rachel on the Pantene Advert says - 'It will happen'.

Ah, Hunter's Law. "It won't happen overnight, but it will happen".

[bogan]

What a project!
Lean on the info though, understandable considering the cost of development.

A new form of bucket racing class could spring up in the future?

Thanks for the link, and I just realised your well on your way with yours.

I actually looked into the possibility of bucket racing mine in f5, turned out to be too slow but if I had better batteries it would probably have been an even match, though a lot heavier.

Most of the stuff out there is very simple to put together, it's more a matter of picking the right motor/controller/battery combination to get both performance and range out of it.

[Big Dave]

Ah, Hunter's Law. "It won't happen overnight, but it will happen".

I just wanted to use 'harbinger' in a composition.

[Big Dave]

Zero electrics

http://translogic.aolautos.com/2011/04/04/translogic-49-zero-motorcycles/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl7|sec3_lnk3|54372